Florida evolution showdown – part 2

Published January 20th, 2008 by Bobby Henderson


My Clay Sun has published a report on the recent Clay County School Board meeting:

Despite impassioned opposition from science experts, teachers and some clergy, Clay County School Board members unanimously resolved Tuesday night that evolution should be presented as a theory, and not fact, in the classroom.

The board passed a resolution, proposed by Superintendent David Owens, asking the Florida Department of Education to reword its newly proposed state standards, which presents evolution as “the fundamental concept underlying all of biology and is supported in multiple forms of scientific evidence.”

The Baker County, Florida, School Board approved a similar resolution a month ago.

The Florida State Board of Education is scheduled to vote Feb. 19th on proposed changes to state science standards.

Creationists will likely continue their campaign that evolution is “just a theory”, and as such should not be presented as fact. Their argument is that unless a theory has been “proved”, it is no more valid than any other theory. They don’t realize – or choose not to acknowledge – that most theories in science have not been “proved”, and it’s not the purpose of science to provide dogmatic proof of anything.

Scientists will likely continue to get worked up and make compelling logical arguments that will go right over the Creationists’ heads. They’ll not accept that appeals to logic don’t work on those who have abandoned logic for faith.

Here are some links if you’d like to read more.

My Clay Sun report on the Clay County School Board resolution

Florida Today article on the upcoming State School Board vote

Florida Citizens for Science coverage of the issue

We need to decide how we’ll proceed …


170 Responses to “Florida evolution showdown – part 2”

  1. Francesc says:


    (I promise is the last one I psot here for today, sorry!)

    “MV, your science is really messed up as is your cosmological views”
    — I don’t know how is the science of MV, say MVlogy, but I’m sure is far less messed up than yours
    “You need to study multiple theologies and cosmologies in comparison.”

    No, we needn’t. We can study cosmology. Theology only can be studied as part of sociology or history

    “You need to be able to properly divide science and cosmological revelations”

    I can’t see why, but are you saying that cosmology is not part of science? Sure, you mean astrology

    “Origin has nothing to do with science.”

    Uff… origin has “nothing” to do with evolution, science is coming closer to origin everyday. Science has nothing to do about “why the FSM ceated us” – why we are here, if this question has any sense.

    “However, science can be use to reconcile cosmological and theological revelation just as archeology confirms historical accounts”

    Well, archeology confirms some historical accounts. I can see your point, but not, the Bible is not an historical account, sorry. Archeology has disproved many of his points. Of course, we Know the FSM is changing the data.
    Yeah, I wonder what has to say the bible about cosmology…mmm…earth is a circle? -not a sphere- the sun rotates around the earth? It says that the other stars are also suns? Anything of relativity?
    You mean that the Bible -God’s word- can be tergiversed -is that not a sin?- to seem not to be so wrong.

    May his noodly appendage touch you

  2. Elvish Pirate Monarch says:

    News from Florida, according to a news article yesterday, the state board of education approved the new science standards which indicate evolutionary theory is a key concept in the biological sciences. This was great news to 99.9% of Biologists. The observable facts, the empirical evidence, all have done nothing but support evolutionary theory. The fossil record, which is far from complete and never will be complete, provides overwhelming evidence for evolutionary theory. Creationists are very good at PR, and they are very good at ignoring the evidence to support their view that evolution is somehow a theory in crisis. While I know that this is only a small victory, and I have no doubt those who think that religion is science will find a new place to wage their war, I will take solace in this victory for today at least. To all the pro ID and pro-creationists out there here is my suggestion to you; until you can provide a testable, disprovable, hypothesis and evidence to support it keep your faith in your church and keep science in the science class room.

  3. Starbuckaneer says:

    Ok guys!!!! I heard it on the radio this morning (sorry I’ve been MIA– just closed on my first house, FSM be praised!) Evolution will be taught as science but must be referred to as “The Scientific Theory of Evolution” and classes will allow debate about this topic so our young Pastafarians can argue that evolution is CRAP and the world was created by the FSM. I consider this a moderate victory. Now back to work.

  4. David T. Jones says:

    Even an atheist is easily fooled if he/she/it believes in Darwin’s theory of evolution. His Big Bang Theory doesn’t hold even a drop of water. His idea that there was no life before the big bang and the complete idiocy that the grand daddy of all explosions occurred and created the earth from nothing but dust particles and all life form, trees, plants, grass, fish, fowl, animals, and human beings,(not to be confused as animals) proves to me that the man was a complete imbecile. It also proves that all of his followers have the same extremely low caliber of intellectual capabilities to think for themselves. Just humor me and ask yourselves a couple of questions. Have you ever seen an explosion that created life? On the contrary, explosions destroy life. Where did these gases and dust particles come from to cause this big bang? All of the elements needed for this big bang were already in existence,(created), so you are led to believe that Creationism provided all of the elements to prove that Creationism is not only a fact but the only conceivable valid explanation. I am amazed at how many hypocrites have the audacity to say that they believe in God when they don’t even believe His Word. It is total nonsense to accept the idea that God did create everything through evolution. Darwin was merely one of many of Satan’s pawns that he used to cause people to believe that God did not create the universe and life. When one accepts that line of thinking, they have decided that there is no God. Thus, Satan’s work is accomplished. In the last several decades it has become more and more ‘not socialy acceptable’ to believe in God and that He did everything that He said He did, including His provision of an extremely ‘uncool’ eternal environment for ALL of those who do not believe Him but also obey His commandments. Think about it, did Darwin’s theory vs Intelligent Design = Unintelligent Design vs Intelligent Design.

  5. Ande says:

    @at mr miami
    I did look into the mater of sudden carbonification
    it apears that there was flooding that caused it and that there are alot of fossils from these particular sites and periods.
    But your conclusion that a lack of abundance in all periods would mean that the theory of evolution i false does not make sense.
    “The fewer fossil records in other geologic layers indicate that millions of years of evolution are not at work. In fact, it offers no record at all of evolution.”
    you only need two points to establish a change. As far as I understand we have several: each carbonification period and present time.
    You can’t possibly object to that life has changed since then
    you cant deside exactly when change has happen but that is not nessecary, just that a change has happened. You must then find an alternative way that species change and make it more possible than evolution or else (most likely) evolution stays

  6. dogger says:

    I must admit there was plenty of lowlands covered with water in the coarboniferous period. I just don’t see any geological data that indicates a monster flood.
    But wait is that his noodlyness lurking in the swamps.

    LOP P-)

  7. MrMiami says:

    I need to complete my thoughts on Item 2 Increasing Content in my last post. While the atoms always return to a ground state the only way atmospheric heat content can increase is by adding enormous qualities such that the CO2 atoms overwhelm the nitrogen (~78%) and oxygen (~21%) heat content. If the amount of CO2 necessary to achieve tmeperature increases reduces the oxygen content below 19% oxygen then humans have a greater problem than global warming.
    One point of the Global warming exercise is to see the various sciences and perspectives that human put on things that are not always pure science. Evolution has the same problems. It is a battle of ideologies that influence science rather than science influencing the ideologies.
    It is unfortunate that pliable minds are indoctrinated into wild the thoughts of pre-existing humans rather than allowed to develop into independent thinkers.

  8. Noodly Nation says:


    This bill would expressly provide rights and protection for teachers concerning scientific presentations on views regarding biological and chemical evolution and students concerning their positions on views regarding biological and chemical evolution.

    BE IT ENACTED BY ____________:
    Section 1. This law shall be known as the “Academic Freedom Act.”
    Section 2. The Legislature finds that existing law does not expressly protect the right of teachers identified by the United States Supreme Court in Edwards v. Aguillard to present scientific critiques of prevailing scientific theories. The Legislature further finds that existing law does not expressly protect the right of students to hold a position on views regarding biological or chemical evolution.”


    Surely such an act would be an opening to allow FSM theory to be taught along side evilution and bibble creationism!

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