Nick Jones, a Biology Graduate student at East Carolina University, and another fellow (and currently unkown) pastafarian, took part in the first ever FSM Anti-War protest. Hopefully thousands more will follow. Make Noodles - Not War
You can contact Nick here: nickeatspie@earthlink.net
Way to go! Your not the only FSM war protester. Keep up the good work, and may his noodly appendage continue to bless you.
Ramen, me hearties! Spread the Good Word!
Duke
We in Iraq believe that the FMS is a Warlike being. If he was more active all conflicts would be thing of the past.
The FSM takes umbrage with anyone who believes that war and protests abide within its noodly being. FSM is a god of vengence who will not tolerate infidels to violate it’s existence. If the war is not fought in Iraq it will come to our shores. Wake up and accept that we are in a war
Ohhhh Landlubber,
Your use of the pirate vernacular is to no avail. In fact I think it is getting hotter in here as I type. FSM is a god of vengence? Where might ye have pulled this factoid? Me thinks it is likely out of your arse!
Have ye no concern of our noble commander in cheif’s plan to break with the 14 year old moratorium on testing nuclear weapons? In his ambition to test a new generation of bunker busting nukes? Just as we seek to bust the balls of Iran for it’s nuclear power ambitions? Nahh I don’t see any conflict of interest there!
As far as infidels go, we’re all infidels. An infidel is a non-believer. There are tons of belief systems that each of us don’t believe in, therefore we are all infidels, just depends on your point of view. christians and atheists both disavow thousands of gods, atheists just disavow one more god than christians.
What war is it that you are reffering to? War on Terror or War in Iraq? Oh how I love that you brought up the “fight them over there or we’ll have to fight them over here” argument. This argument sounds great if you are an American sitting in his comfortable spacious home, but what if you are an Iraqi? The Iraqi’s didn’t suffer enough under Saddam, so now they have to deal with OUR enemies in thier homeland? Such speech seems to indicate that you wish that all terrorists would migrate to Iraq so that we can quickly kill them there!
I can’t help wondering if Iraqis today are wondering “Gee I wish we could have been liberated by a country that didn’t have so many f*#&ing enemies”.
Lubber, I am quite awake, and realize that we are in a number of distinct and separate wars. Its your inability to distinguish these wars from each other that confounds me!
Please don’t claim to speak for FSM in the future.
Can’t we all just get along wet noodle smothered in tomato goodness and serve it with garlic bread? Arrrrrghhhh! Ramen
To protest the war is good….war is bad…people die…and that’s bad…Soldiers are good…thanking them for their service is good….becuase of their sacrafice you still have the right to a good war protest…did I mention war is bad???
And it is SO hard to slurp noodles when they are shooting at you. War must stop! It is interfering with dinner!
FSM please intervene in this senseless insanity! What do you MEAN you’re too busy cooking more apendages??
I am SO not getting any work done.
I happen to know the FSM on a very personable level, and from my vast experience with him I know it’s compltetly for war, any type of war. The FSM loves to watch and partake in mass bloodshed, especially of innocent people. The FSM controls the earth and what happens on it, and makes sure there is some kind of innocent life being lossed for some mundane reason through the history of the world almost consistently. I mean look he lets pirates control the earths temp. More pirates the more safe our earths temp. stays and pirates or known for their murdering, plundering, raping, stealing, and anything else all for the “booty.” A creater like that must love war.
oookay….first things first
landlubber, your title is apt
for a true pastafarian would know the eight ‘I’d rather you didn’t’s”
FSM specificially states that people should not be killed in his name. do your homework.
secondly, these people…..nate…who claim to know his noodlyness should, as stated above, do thier homework. if you had read the gospel, you would know that no murdering occurred by our hands, we just made a guy pee in his pants. this view is purely propaganda.
FSM is a peaceful pasta.
RAmen
we shouldn’t be at war???
did the noodleist followers forget about 9/11.
becuase i surely did not! let us support our troops, they are the home team right??? why would you rebel against your own country???
if you do rebel against the american way …..
THEN MOVE TO IRAQ
Oh god… It’s people like that who flew the planes INTO the towers. Anyway, what the hell did Iraq have to do with the 11th of september anyway?
Young Repub, you might think that your little yellow ribbon bumper magnet is all it takes to “support the troops”. I tend to think that the troops would prefer things like body armor and clean water. The best thing we can do to “support the troops” is to have policy and strategy that is grounded in REALITY. The reality that this administration has continuously disseminated through rhetoric and propaganda, has never matched up with the reality on the ground.
The Cheneyesque line that anyone who questions this war, or how it is waged, is unpatriotic, has worn quite thin. Blind alegiance is not patriotic. “Dissent is the greatest form of patriotism” - Thomas Jefferson.
If you would cut FOX news off for a second you might have come to realize that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.
If our boys are the home team, then who is the away team? Why then are we playing at their stadium? Why the hell is this “game” in its 34th inning. Whats the score again? Damn, sports analogies really suck.
Were not rebelling against “the American Way”. Were rebelling against jackasses like you who claim that lying to the American people to start a war, propaganda, torture, new-age nukes, etc., are all apart of “the American Way”. They are not!
Thanks for playing, but please don’t claim to speak for America in the future.
Our Saucy master is peace loving… and totally against wars, especially the ones no one really knows the reason for, or that have no forseeable way to win, and cost money and man power for reasons too hard to explain… Ya, that isn’t what the FSM is about at all. Great to hear about the war protest, make noodles not war indeed.
Become a pirate, save the world. Arrrr.
you are not not the only one against that!!
FSM FTW, WAR FTL but i heard that saddam guy didnt like noodles so maybe like going over there and like covering his lands in “tomatoe” sauce would like sort him out unfortunatley we had to use “tomatoe” sauce substitue because it worked out cheeper… if you dont count like the millions of dollars/pounds wotrth of ammo and guns wasted but meh theyve gotta be shot at some one might aswell be a random land lubber who hates pasta, the YARR I IS A PIRATE hath spoken.. suck my balls
As a reaction on young-republican:
You should really start to grow some brain. A good solid diet of carbohydrates could help, esp. if in the form of good pasta. Just remember, if cooked right pasta can’t hurt anyone!
After the right amount of pasta truth will appear and you’l discover that what we all know.. (and I don’t want to start to talk politics here).
Pick up your eyepatch, place your parrot on your shoulder and set sail to an enlightned future full of clear thinking!
RAmen!
yes, war not noodles. c’mon the pirates! arrr!
FSM has never said anything for OR against war.. He is indifferent and omniscient and will allow us to fight, then fight about whether we are fighting or not, for He knows this is the unfortunate truth of the psyche of humanity, his unintelligent creation.
All of you: Claiming that He is on YOUR side is the same foolish naivety that christians have, when they claim to know what god wants and says, and argue about it.
As far as I’m aware the good prophet and messiah HENDEROB is the only one in recorded history to have been directly enlightened. If we have not received instruction on an issue from him, then let each man decide his position on that issue for himself. PLEASE do not allow yourselves to turn on each other, we have all been touched by the noodly one’s flapping appendage!
Most of all PLEASE do not use the great FSM’s name to back up your views, unless it can be shown clearly to all, from the gospel, and without doubt, that His position is the same as yours. Just assume he’s not willing to lift an appendage because he DOESN’T CARE. He’s too busy partying with strippers and beer, and if anything the war will allow His followers to hasten their journey to party with Him. But people should be able to protest the war without being attacked for it, thats the 1st amendment i believe. If you are that agressively FOR the war that you need to attack the protesters, then join the army and HELP fight the fight.
I see the beginnings of dissent amongst good believers here, simply because of a tiny, trifling, issue like the pro/anti war debate. A schism in the church so soon after its re-founding would be TRAGIC!
Accept that they are YOUR beliefs, just yours, FSM doesn’t give a noodly shit! If He did he would have made it clear to us all.
If you don’t want your loved ones to die in wars, you should’ve convinced them to get a safer job! Armies go to war, that’s what they’re there for. Hippies stay at home and protest that the president shouldn’t send our troops to war, that’s what THEY’re there for. Let the fighting stay overseas, don’t start civil wars over whether or not we should have wars, for fuck’s sake!
If you’re going to pretend that FSM has guided you on any issue, take up that issue to argue with OTHER (stupider) religions, don’t let’s get nasty with each other. Let us all bask in his warm, saucy, sweet-smelling aura together, and forget our differences. We all love a noodle
See southpark series 7 episode 1: “I’m a Little Bit Country” to understand further the futility of this debate.
PLEASE! I beg you all for HIS sake. Shiver me timbers!
good work…noodles not nukes!
You rock! As a military Pastafarian I have been exposed to massive ignorance towards the Church of FSM. If we can preach the word to enough people, perhaps His Noodly Appendage will touch them, endowing them with the understanding that the pursuit of war is a trivial distraction from the Truth. Ramen!
noodles not nukes…..truer words have never been said
The FSM (all be blessed by his greatness) awaits the one mighty and strong who will lead us. We must continue to strive for a national homeland for all Pastafarians. What the FSM (all be blessed) has given us is written on the clouds and cannot be denied. We Pastafarians are people of tolerance, love and peace but will not subvert our beliefs to the laws of any state or nation. The day is coming when our persecution will become to great for us to bare. It is then that we will witness the return of the great FSM (all be blessed) and the streets will run red with the blood of the anti-pastafarians.
These are dark times for us my fellow Pastafarians and I await the second coming of the FSM (all be blessed).
- Johnny Corvette, enlightened seer of the divine truth
as was stated in the video on the main page, FSM is a kind God. Unlike many other religions, no one has been killed in his name. His sauceyness does not condone killing,.. he just loves everybody
Fear not mortals. For all will be well.
Let this day be a day of celebration!
On this day, you shall only eat spaghetti and pasta, for all meals and snacks…
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I must not interfere with the war, because those who help others help themselves.
Ramen.
@ el tee
Thats RAmen!
Sorry, my noodly appendage slipped on my great keyboard of noodlyness.
do not put words into his noodlyneses “mouth”. and this war is necacary in some way. an example is how america is no longer being attacked by terrorists.
Yep, no more attacks on American soil.
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Unfortuately though, it hasnt stopped the deaths of American, Iraqi or British soldiers, various Red Cross and UN humanitarian service workers, Iraqi MPs, Iraqi civilians, not to mention preventing the bombings in London, Bali, and Jakarta.
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Then of course, there is the complete loss of respect for the US, British, and Australian governments, the incredible anti western hatred that has been stirred up, the increasing radicalism of Palestinian and Iranian governments, and effectively breaking the credibility of the UN when the ‘coalition’ completely ignored it.
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It really depends on whether you judge it to be worthwhile.
“do not put words into his noodlyneses “mouthâ€. and this war is necacary in some way. an example is how america is no longer being attacked by terrorists.”
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And by the same logic one could say that: The Vietnam war was a necesary war evidenced by the fact that America was no longer being attacked by the Japanese!
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The “Fight them over there so that we don’t have to fight them over here” argument is one of the most offensive in all of the war dialogues!
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Do you really take comfort in the idea that thousands of civilians (and Americans) have died in a land far away, in order that our terror threat level not get moved from yellow to red?
young-republican, you need to wake up to yourself.
Your delusion is thorough and complete. You need to go through a program of deprogramming, a ration of rationalism and a meal of good spaghetti.
Please take your hate mongering war attitudes somewhere else, for your Orwellian hate-speech and double talk are not for the peaceful forum of the Great FSM (all praise!), but the dustbin of antiquated prehistoric attitudes.
You people are splitting us!!!
Thats baaaaaaaaaaaad karma
RAmen
Xero
I want everyone who is pro-war to listen to this. How many times have you had to wrench yourself away from the sound of your brother’s voice, knowing that it may be the last time you ever talk to him. How many times have you had to watch your sister succumb to insomnia, because the nightmares of her brother being disintigrated won’t let her sleep. How many times have you watched your mother cry as she prayed, hoping god would protect her child. Until you can say you have done these things, you have no say on the war. Yes, there are people who need to be stopped, people who would strap bombs to themselves in the name of a fanatical devotion, but why does it have to be at the expense of our soldiers’ lives. Are any of you pro-war people willing to step up and take my brother’s place on the front line, or the place of any other soldiers’? Remember this the next time you say you support the war. In America, we are guarenteed the right to LIFE, Liberty, and Happiness. How is it American to send our finest young men and women off to die?
RAmen, A Marine’s Brother, RAmen.
As someone who is a noodle-seeker, looking for the warm garlic-laden truth of existence, and not yet a seasoned believer, I wonder if I might be qualified to make an observation: I can’t but think all the bloodshed of war would best be done in tall sailing vessels on the high seas. I am thinking a large sturdy galleon, a sloop, or barring that a brig, or small frigate. That way one could could minimize civillian casualties, and maybe get to swing from the rigging onto the other vessel, and gennerally say nasty things to one’s adversaries whilst chenching a rusty knife between one’s teeth. Oh, the seafaring glory!
Yarrr!
I quote bones:
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“If you’re going to pretend that FSM has guided you on any issue, take up that issue to argue with OTHER (stupider) religions, don’t let’s get nasty with each other. Let us all bask in his warm, saucy, sweet-smelling aura together, and forget our differences. We all love a noodle.
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See southpark series 7 episode 1: “I’m a Little Bit Country†to understand further the futility of this debate.
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PLEASE! I beg you all for HIS sake. Shiver me timbers!”
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Come on, if FSM said anything pro/anti war, he would let everybody know by now. In very clear English (so we may translate for those who don’t know English).
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Sometimes “reading between the lines” and “I’ll just leave some argument here cos there’s this ‘leave a reply’ thingy” doesn’t work.
@A Marine’s Brother Dec 18th, 2006 at 4:45 pm
‘How is it American to send our finest young men and women off to die?”
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RAmen Marine’s Brother
May your brother return home safely, and when he does, may he be able to move on from the horrors he’s no doubt had to witness and face.
The CoFSM does not condone war!
Wench Nikkie,
Thanks. He has actually completed his first tour with only minor injuries. However, he is being shipped back for his second within the next six months.
A Marine’s Brother, that’s awful. May his deity of choice keep him safe through whatever trails war sends at him.
RAmen.
After reading these post, I must confess that I am highly upset with the mentality of my fellow noodle followers. American is at war. War is not a good thing, but it can have good results. While it is true that Saddam Heusein was not behind 9/11, it has been proven that Saddam have given financial assistance and a safe haven to terrorist. As President Bush said, “We will make no distinction between those who committed these acts, and those to harbor them.”
I am not a Republican, and Bush has lost my support, however, this war is necessary for the survival of non muslims. I have served in the US Marine Corps and have been to that part of the world. What Americans do not understand is these people will not negotiate. They will stop at nothing to either covert us to muslim or to kill us. To quote Osama Bin Laden, “…we value death more than Americans value life.” Osama is correct.
While I’m with Young Republican and agree that if we don’t fight this war in the Middle East, they will bring it here, it’s also a battle of will. At this point, their will is stronger than ours. I pray that this does not continue. We cannot afford to appease the terrorist anymore. Appeasement didn’t work on or before 9/11, Apeasement didn’t work in the first WTC bombing in 1993. Appeasement didn’t work when two of our embassys were bombed in Africa, Appeasement didn’t work with the USS Cole, Appeasement didn’t work with Beiruit. The list goes on and on. The only negotiation that the Islamo-Fascits undersand is death, and our God is better than your allah.
It’s no secrete that America is torn over this war and some Americans want us to loose this war. I have served my country honorably and faitfully and I am happy to loose 4 years of social life to serve my country and countrymen. I have never regretted what I have done. It has opened up my eyes to see what the world is all about.
I have a cousin who is serving his third tour in Iraq in the Marine Corps. This tour was completely voluntary. Every military personel who has been to Iraq/ Afganastan has something completely different to say than what you hear in the news. Get out there and talk to a War on Terror Veteran.
People in Iraq are very greatful for thier liberation. You won’t hear about it from the liberal media. Just look how many Iraqis, men and women go out to vote. They know that they are putting their life at risk standing in line to vote. A higher percentage of Iraqis turned out to vote in their last election, than Americans in this past November. If anything, it sounds like Amercians don’t support freedom.
To A Marine’s Brother,
Keep in mind that we have a competely volunteer military. Nobody made your Marine sign the papers. I know for a fact that every person who talks to a Marine recruiter knows about the chances of war. Marine recruiters drive this into the candidates head. If your Marine didn’t want to go to war, than he/she shouldn’t have sign the papers.
“The best way to preserve peace, is to prepare for war”
—Gen. George Washington
Oh dear, I can see myself getting into a long and bitter argument with SALMNDR92.
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For a start, papers seized from the former government in iraq show that Saddam was if anything, concerned about al-quieda and had no intention of supporting the particular fraction that caused 9/11.
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“however, this war is necessary for the survival of non muslims.” uhhh.
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“They will stop at nothing to either covert us to Muslim or to kill us.” This is partially true, however, I must quote a middle eastern royal (I think it was the prince of Jordan) “It is important to distinguish between groups such as Hamas, who have a potentially legitimate territorial depute with Israel and groups such as al-quieda, who are quite mad.” To say it another way, I’ve heard many reports that Israel is not being very democratic to the Arabs living in Palestine, and the Arabs are understandably getting a bit pissed and resorting to terrorism, it’s not because they want to rule the world.
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“The only negotiation that the Islamo-Fascits understand is death, and our God is better than your allah.” Shut Up!
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“some Americans want us to loose this war.” It’s that black and white to you is it?
“The only negotiation that the Islamo-Fascits undersand is death, and our God is better than your allah.” While I support kicking the ass of anyone who attacks us (and kicking their family’s ass, and kicking their dog’s ass etc), I DON’T SUPPORT DOING IT IN THE NAME OF GOD. If they want to kill us because of their religious beliefs, so be it. We have a military for just this occasion. But, this should have nothing to do with anyone’s god. Many, many people have died for this insane religious bulls*it. Just because they may be “all messed-up on allah” doesn’t mean we have to fight in the name of some god. Did you ever consider that fist fight you got into in 5th grade? Were you punching him because he believed in Buddah? Or because he pushed you during recess?
@Marine Brother
I hope your brother remains safe and returns home unharmed.
I worked in NYC a number of years and have many friends who are fearful of working in Manhattan everyday because it is an obvious and repeated target for extremist. I know this is not the same as going oversees to risk your life. I am sure however, that this is a cause of some level of insomnia and I am sure a few wives or husbands wrench themselves away from their spouse on their daily commute with this in mind. And this is not just in NYC but many major cities and potential targets in the US. So, I think collectively we don’t need to have a son or brother or close friend in Iraq to have a say in the matter. I expect that if only those in military service, pentagon, etc were the ones that decide these things we would have been in Iraq sooner.
I am sorry for your families anguish and I respect your courage. Your family and your brother are all heroes in my book. May his appendages keep you all safe.
To SALMNDR92,
Thank you very, very much for all of your responses. Though we may not hold the same point of view, it was nice to find someone with a well developed and well stated argument. If there were more people like you who were able to justify their views in such a proffessional manner, we would definetly be able to make more progress towards getting out of this mire the united states is in. I also thank you for your time of service in our armed forces. As part of a military family, it is always good to hear from servicemen like yourself.
Also, I know that the people of Iraq are grateful. My brother has shown me many momentos of thier thanks that have been given to him. I also know that his service voluntary, but it was still a very trying experience when he was on his first tour.
However, on a negative not, I definetly do not agree with, or even understand some of the things said by SALMNDR92. Such as the part about negotiations and how “The only negotiation that the Islamo-Fascits undersand is death, and our God is better than your allah.”
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Some clarifycation of these little snippits of your post would be nice.
As I mentioned before, I spent time in that part of the world. They are fanatics over there. This is something that is hard for most “protected” Americans to acknoledge. Most Americans cannot fathom the fact that people are willing to die for a cause instead of talking it out. I have nothing against other religions, but until I see muslim leaders in the US and around the world stand up and speak against the global terror attacks that are committed by muslims, I must say that I am loosing confidence in the muslim religion. As I recall, earlier this year the Israelis willingly gave up the West Bank to the Palestinins, only to have some of thier soldiers kidnapped and killed. You CANNOT NEGOTIATE WITH THESE PEOPLE. THEY ONLY RECOGNIZE DEATH AND DEFEAT. I never meant to have my words twisted into a religious war. When I said “Our God is better than your allah,” I meant to say that is the mindset of the Islamo-fascists. They are not willing to recognized any other God and will kill to keep allah the only god. If we say our God is what we believe, then we will be killed.
I don’t know if anyone has heard, but since So Damn Insane has recieved the death sentence, the Iraqi government has people coming out of the walls wanting to be the executioner. They all seem to have lost a loved one to So Damn and want to kill him personally. This is saying something about the kind of tyrant he was and how the Iraqi people hate him. This man killed his own countrymen at will and had the rest of them living in fear of him and his henchmen. If for no other reason, just taking a monster like this out of power was good enough reason to go into Iraq.
SALMNDR92
Thanks for clarifying.
Just been announced that the US has handed Hussein over to Iraqi authorities for execution today or tomorrow.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6217725.stm
Sits around fire & drums while singing >
…continues softly to drum….
He’s already gone! No more Finito. I don’t know what time Aussie tim, but I say a report aprox 4hrs ago now.e
Talk about keyboard gremlins last post!
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“After Saddam — the unanswered questions
The people of Iraq woke up this morning to the news that Saddam Hussein was executed at dawn local time, about 3 am GMT. His hanging was filmed and we can expect those images to soon be available across the world courtesy of the internet.”
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/ni/
to Salmndr92:
I’m confused. I think you are confused also.
You say “bush has lost my support”. But why, if you support the war? Do you just follow the polls as so many of the other sheep in our flock?
You say that it is proven that Saddam Hussein has given safe haven and finacial aid to terrorists.Where is this proof? Is it written in spaghetti noodles that only the chosen meatballs can see?
And that Bush said “we will make no distinction between those that committed these acts and those that harbor them”. The “terrorists” if any, that saddam harbored were not the ones that did 911. He should have said “we will make no distinction between those that committed these acts and people that have oil that we need”.
You say that we had to invade this country because these muslims want to convert or kill all non-muslims. And we will win because our God is better than their Allah. I think God and Allah should have an arm wrestling match and the winner should take on the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
When Ossama said “we value death more than you value life” it was his way of saying the same thing New Hampshire said during rthe revolutionary war. “give me liberty or give me death”. When Americans say it, it sounds so noble.
Here’s the situation as I see it in a nutshell:
The western world became iterested in the middle east when we became addicted to oil.
The western world drew lines to define countries in the middle east.
We set up certain families or tribes (the house of Saud) to become the royalty. Or we set up puppet governments (ex. Shah of Iraq). We gave them stability by backing them up with our military might.
These royal famalies grew rich while the countrymen remained poor.
We would secretly support instability in the region (CIA) to keep the countries backward and less oil dependant for one thing, and to keep the governments dependant on our protection(Iran Iraq war).
We supprted Saddam (and the shaw of Iran) through many attrocities. As long as they played ball with us on the oil thing nothing else mattered. Saddam quit playing ball. He used weopons that we gave on his own people (kinda but different tribe). These people wanted to overthrow and kill him. (Aren’t we over there killing people now because we think they might want to kill us?) We gave him that stuff to kill Iranians with.
The peasants are tired of foreiners being in there country, keeping things stirred up, so that we can have their oil. They just want everyone to go away. The one thing these guys all have in common is that they are Muslim.
We are there for the oil!!
We use religion to make them seem different or crazy or whatever. That is what relgion is for. It’s to motivate people to do things that make absolutly no sense.
There will be no peace in the world until everyone beleives in the one true God, The Flying Spaghetti Monster. Anyone who does not convert will have to be killed.
Eddie Spaghetti
@ Eddie Spaghetti, Hi Eddie.
I admire your devotion to the FSM, But please don’t kill anybody in his name. Ok?
That is so, not what he wants! He is a peaceful Monster, who only wants people to think.
Not use brute force, or his name to conquer. Put your engery into consuming massive amounts of beer! Make beer! Not war!
Ramen
Peter Popoff,
You are so right. I was being facicious(?sp). I forgot that the best lesson learned from the FSM is that there are a lot of people that will believe anything they are told.
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World peace will come when automobiles run on spaghetti sauce.
RAmen
@Eddie Spaghetti
Hey I think you need to go back and read some more Chomsky books you forgot to mention that it’s all because of Israel.
Johnny Corvette,
I’m glad to see that you have at least heard of Chomsky. That’s more than you can say for most Americans, thanks to the right wing owned operated and controlled media. I wish you had payed closer attention though. He doesn’t think it’s all because of Isreal, only that that is a significant factor. What you might not know is that the brutality that Isreal shows to the Palestinians is rarely broadcast in this country, while any action taken by the Palestinians is given full coverage. There is a very large segment of the Israeli population that activly protests the persecution of the Palestinians. They get no news coverage in the USA. They actually get quite a bit in Isreal. We supprot Israel largely because they are our best foothold in a region that we need to control.
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The interesting thing about the right wing Christian element of our society is that it survives by giving people a choice. If you don’t like Catholosicm you can be protestant. If you don’t like the first brand that tried, just try another. There’s plenty out there. We can find one that fits you.
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If you need a reason for us to invade Iraq, we’ve got plenty. I’m sure you can find one that works for you.
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How about “They have connections to 9/11″
We all know better now, but don’t worry there’s more:
They are fanatics over there. This is all they understand.
Not compassionate enough for you? How about this:
Those poor nice folks are being tortured by an evil dictator.
I’m sure they are much happier being tortured by fine Chritian Americans.
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How about: They have weapons of mass destruction.
I’ve heard a few explanations for this this. Some say they are all burried in the desert. Some say they were smuggled to Syria. I would think if he had them he would have used them when he was up against the biggest army in the world. What else would he have them for?
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We found some aluminum tubes. They must be for nuc U lar stuff.
. Turned out to be bullshit.
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Did you find one you liked? You should realize that you can’t pick them all because some conflict with others, just like our Christian churches.I’d really like to know which of these works for you.
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I’m curious. When people say “We have to fight THEM over THERE”, who is “they”? And why is “there” Iraq? Do they really think that ALL muslims want to convert or kill us? That makes it OK to invade any Muslim country regardless of any connection with terrorism. I guess it’s just coincidence that Iraqs oil reserves are estimated to be larger than Saudi Arabia. Afghanistan (remember Afghanistan? That’s where the terrorists were based) has very little oil. We have very few troops there.
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Do you realize that we have lost more Americans in Iraq than we did in the WTC? Two of them were very close to me. I hope that marines brother’s brother is luckier.
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I absolutly support our troops. I know that they beleive they are defending our country. May God and the FSM bless them.
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eddie spaghetti
Patriotic American
Gaaaarsh I am convinced. When do I get to make a big paper Mache puppet???
To eddie spaghetti
You sound like a Michael Moore puppet. I don’t know if you have noticed, but the price of oil has skyrocketed after we went to war. If we were going to war for oil, basic business says when supply increases, price decrease. It didn’t work this way, which should show that we did not go to war for oil. I did say that President Bush has lost my support. I still support the war, but I do not back Bush. I would love to see the President go in no holds barred and use every weapon we have to accomplish the goal.
Have you been to that side of the world? People are not the same all over the world. If you have not been to the Middle East, then you don’t know what things are like and how people are over there. They are not the same peace loving people like you see in the EU and the US.
I guess you don’t listen even to the mainstream media. Even I heard on the news that the US has turned over all oil to the Iraqi people. The US isn’t going to see one cent from Iraqi oil. Not now, not never. I also suggest that you go out and talk to someone who has been over there and has interacted with the “peasents.” The Iraqi people love thier liberation, and love the lack of fear in which we have given them. You don’t understand the situation that the Iraqis were living. They were afraid to say or do anything in fear of being raped, tortured, killed, or having thier family killed, raped, tortured. Let me ask you something. Did you vote this past November? A higher percentage of Iraqis voted in their last election than did Americans. These are the same Iraqis who knowinly risked their lives to vote. These are the same Iraqis who you say want us out of Iraq and don’t appreciate what we have given them. A higher percent
How the hell can you compare Osama quote of terror to one of the most partiotic quotes in American history. Osama is a known terrorist who has openly announced that he has attacked American on more than one occasion. Patrick Henery was a great patriot who helped free the American Colonies from the tyranny of the King of England. If you see any simularities between these two beings (one a human, the other a monster) then I’m ashamed to share the title of American with the likes of you. If you see Osama Bin Laden and Patrick Henry as one in the same, then you are an American Traitor, in my book. Patrick Henry never killed to cause terror.
“. (Aren’t we over there killing people now because we think they might want to kill us?)” No sir, we are over there because they DID kill over 3,000 of us. Keep in mind that we did not do anything against Al-Queda and/or the people of muslim from 1993 (first WTC bombing) to 2001 (last WTC bombing).
I always wondered why people want to hate our government and constantly accuse it of conspiracies. If you hate the US government so much than move. I would rather love my country and give my country and countrymen the benefit of the doubt over other countries. If the US is so bad and the countries of the Middle East are so good, I will pay for your plane ticket to move there. Let me know and I’ll arrange it through any airline of your choice.
@ SALMNDR92
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Bush… I never voted for him, and in 2000 our side won. Of course, thanks to a bit of questionable activity by some extreme right-wingers, that didn’t matter. America doesn’t stand for many ideals, mostly just freedom. I dislike our current government, but I consider it worthwhile to wait and see if there will be a better one before I move to England, Australia, Italy, or some other (much) less energy-crazy country. As to the war for oil, just how do you explain Halliburton? No-bid government contracts and such… seems awfully questionable that Cheney’s old company would get them without our government getting something in return…
And by the way, you are stereotyping middle-easterners. How would you reply if one of them said something like “You havn’t been over there. trust me they are ALL INSANE and want to kill everyone who doesn’t share their veiws! if we try to bargain with them, they will only make more places like Guantanamo bay!”
And what do you think the (old) English thought about Patrick Henry? I have no support for Osama or Saddam, but considering the current state over there they will likely become more popular!
And how can you talk about keeping up with the news after saying the Iraqis love their new government? if they love it so much, why are so many attacking it?
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And how can you talk about “the same peace-loving people we have here in the EU and the US” after openly wishing for some sort of government-induced jokulhaups directed at the Middle East?
That is not peace…
So you are thinking you might move out of the country because:
1) your team didn’t win the election in 2000
2) the US is a “Energy Crazy†country
3) you think maybe Halliburton is giving the government a kickback
You’re just going to wait and see how your team does first.
Well, I hope you find solace driving your moped around your adopted new country looking for work.
To Gnocci Man
I disapprove the whole Haliburton deal. I am by no means a Republican, and because I’m not I can speak from my own opinions instead of a party line. However, I’m not going to leave my country because of it. I still love America, and always will.
Just because Haliburton was awarded a no bid contract does not mean the war is about oil. It was all over the news when the US captured Saddam that the US will not control any of the Iraqi oil. The US helped keep production going, but safe guarded the money into an account for the new Iraqi Government. As I mentioned eariler, in basic business class, when supply increases, the cost decreases. If we went to war over oil, and we are tapping Iraq of its oil and bringing it here, don’t you think we would be below $2 per gallon? I sure as hell believe it.
I’m not saying everyone in the Middle-East is fanatical and cannot be reasoned with, just the ones who are creating trouble. The Islamo-Fascists are the ones that cannot be talked to and have a peacefull resolve. What’s wrong with Guantomo Bay? We do need more places like it, and whatever means they use to get information from the prisoners should be obtained.
Again, there is no similarities between Patrick Henry and Osama Bin Laden. Patrick Henry was a patriot fighting for freedom. Osama is a criminal fighting to create terror in the world, and also fighting his jihad (holy war).
The mainstream media will never report anything positive from this war. To get the true story on how things are going, you have to talke to someone who has been there. Go out and talke to an army soldier, a Marine, or any other ground component of our military. They will tell you the media is full of b.s. They will tell you how the Iraqi population is very happy for us being there. They will also tell you that all the insurgants are not Iraqis but other nationalities coming to Iraq to kill an American in the name of allah.
Whenever I meet someone in uniform, I thank them for thier service and I ask if they have been to Iraq or Afghanastan. If they have I talk to them about thier experiences. I do have a cousin in the Marines. He is currently on his third tour in Iraq. He volunteered for this tour. Also while we are talking about our military, lets look at enlistments. No branch of our military is having problems meeting thier quotas. The military is also experiencing a high level of re-enlistments. That right there has to say something about how our troops think about what’s going on over there.
I do love peace and hope that one day we will have peace and harmony worldwide. However, until that happens, we most remain vigilant and be willing to step up to the plate when called on. My grandparents had a horrific tragety in their life with 07 December 1941, the day that will live in infamy. Now, in our life, we have our own Day of Infamy. That day was 9/11, and we must step up like our grandparents did 60 years ago and fight tyranny, fascism, and hate. What would have happened if Americans wanted to forgive Japan for bombing Pearl harbor, and forgive Hitler for the Houlocast and his quest for world domination? We would be speaking German today. If we love our way of life, we have to take a stand and defend it. If we don’t, we will all be muslim very shortly. I for one will die for my religious beliefs and will kill the Islamo-Fasicist as he tries to get into my house.
Salmndr,
Relax.
Have some Pasta.
Drink from the beer vocano.
Dance with the sacred strippers.
And if you really want to know what it’s like in a titty bar, ask a guy who just came stumbling out of one.
@SALMNDR92
“The Iraqi people love thier liberation, and love the lack of fear in which we have given them.”
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This is absolute bullshit!!! Since the invasion of Iraq by US lead forces the civilian death toll has been enormous (even if you believe Bush’s figure of 30,000). The latest figure produced by the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health is 655,000 extra deaths in Iraq since 2003 with 601,000 attributable to violence. They estimate that 31% of violent deaths or 186,000 can be directly attributed to coalition military action. This study was published in the Lancet a highly reputable medical journal. It was peer-reviewed by 4 independent experts, which is double the normal number of reviewers, and accepted with few revisions. No other estimate of the death toll in Iraq has been subjected to such scrutiny. Here is the reference if you want to read it yourself:
Title: Mortality after the 2003 invasion of Iraq: a cross-sectional cluster sample survey
Author(s): Burnham G, Lafta R, Doocy S, Roberts L
Source: LANCET 368 (9545): 1421-1428 OCT 21 2006
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The number of dead American soldiers is 3,004, which is higher than the death toll of September 11. There are also over 46,000 injured. All those people dead for a war that was based on a lie.
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“To get the true story on how things are going, you have to talke to someone who has been there. Go out and talke to an army soldier, a Marine, or any other ground component of our military.”
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Here is what one soldier wrote in a letter to his parents reproduced in the NY Times:
“No one understands why we are here and what our mission is. This war is lost. We aren’t helping these people. We are just dying and getting injured.”
Sgt. Ryan Kahlor.
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You are full of warmongering, overly nationalistic crap as the last paragraph of your previous post attests. You need to think far more critically about what the goals of coalition’s invasion of Iraq were, whether they achieved them, and were the results worth the number of dead and injured. At the moment it is clear that you really have no idea.
@SALMNDR92
As a spectator from another county who follows along, I don’t intend to say this politely.
No one is interested in reading your mental wanking here.
Please relieve yourself somewhere else! I feel unclean just having read half of it.
Yeah - same for Eddie spaghetti. This is no place for long stupid posts of regurgitated Chomsky drivel. We are easily bored and perhaps a little dim.
So let’s stick to the topic at hand. Worship of the noodly great one and funny comments about Christian nutters. Oh and maybe a smattering of Theist vs. Non- theist philosophy and discussion. But please keep it short and sweet.
And remember kids - it doesn’t matter how many people are killed, maimed or murdered as long as the US isn’t involved in some way.
To Coleoptera
I seriously doubt that the US is guilty of the mass murder that Saddam has been guilty of. Saddam was also guilty of genocide. There’s something you won’t here from the liberal mainstream media. When someone tries to eliminate a race like Hitler did in WWII and Saddam did with his fellow countrymen of a different religous persuation. Along with the 3,000 American deaths in Iraq, how many brainwashed terrorist did we kill? That’s something else I never heard the liberal media mention. How would have WWII turned out if liberals started crying with our first 3,000 deaths? We would have pulled up tents and left in the middle of our first island campaign.
Yes, of course you will find military personel who are against the war. These are also the same people who sign up for the military to receive benefits such as college tuition, etc. I never said every member of our military would say the same thing, but most do. How else would you explain the high re-enlistment rate? The enlistment rate is high enough to keep a war going for almost 4 years without bringing back the draft. All branches of the military are meeting enlistment quotas.
To Wench Nikky
As long as people will post anti war statements here, I have the right to post my views.
SALMNDR92 - “Along with the 3,000 American deaths in Iraq, how many brainwashed terrorist did we kill?”
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No doubt some of the 12 000 Iraqi civilians killed in 2006 were terrorists. The families of the 1 930 civilians who died last month are probably singing our praises as we speak.
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/6224047.stm
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Is the 92 bit of your name your date of birth by any chance?
@SALMNDR92
So how many modern wars besides WWI and WWII actually solved more problems than they caused? with people like Saddam, Hitler, Stalin, etc. removal is necesary… but shouldn’t there at least be an attempt at a planned, peaceful way? Our government rushed in with almost no plan, and played quite a few dirty tricks. Now look at the situation as it is, not as you wish to think it is.
Why havn’t we tried to stop the genocide in Darfur, Sudan? America is pretty much in our war for revenge. If it was merely Saddam, why did we wait so long to attack? Peace is ALWAYS an option.
And please stop bashing liberals. I am a democrat (obvious by now, I suppose) who has been watching this trend grow for years now, and I can tell you that it REALLY frightens me.
Oh, and whilst I’m on the subject. You sounded pretty stoked about old Saddam doing the hemp fandango in an earlier post.
Does that still stand. Was vengeance, for that’s all it was, worth the deaths of 13 people in a car bombing today. Was the killing of a monster (I have no illusions about Hussein) worth the deaths of innocents?
@SALMNDR92, first of all, thank you for your service to your country. I am thankful everyday for young men and women like you who give their hearts and souls to defend us. I do not agree with pretty much anything you have said, except for the fact that there are some Iraqis who are also grateful for your service. Even though I do not agree with you on much, I think that you have every right to express yourself.
@Gnocci man
Oh yes the good wars WWI and WWII. When will they bring those good old days back. You may recall that WWII was not about genocide until after allied forces were deep inside Germany discovering gas chambers. Better late then never.
And in Iraq we rushed in completely fooling all the American people and all senators and congressmen but also why did we wait so long? Which is it?
And Darfur – yes why doesn’t the US do something? Maybe we should call someone at the UN? Oh wait Sudan has already rejected one UN Resolution and the US is pushing the reluctant UN to do something. Maybe another resolution!! I guess we will need to go through 12 years of UN ceasefires, resolutions and sanctions before anything gets done. Wait - that was for a country whose leader said he had nuclear, chemical and biological weapons and that he wished he waited another year or so to have fully developed nuclear weapon before invading Kuwait. So maybe we will need 20 years of UN diplomacy first.
But remember – it’s all because of Israel:
http://www.sudantribune.com/spip.php?article17772
I will stay out of this one. I have argued it to death elsewhere, you can’t change peoples minds on this mornic war in iraq.
It was stupid from the start, as it remains stupid. Saddam wasn’t a threat to America in the beginning, anymore then he is today.
The fact that we have made this country more unsafe, since starting this irag war, falls on deaf ears.
I have my theories on why we are there. I’ll keep them to myself, because this isn’t the topic that I come to the FSM for. But a healthy debate is a healthy debate. So have at it.
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I will add though, that I too, thank anybody and everybody in the service.
Like Lieutenant Dan from Forrest Gump. A member of my family has fought and died in every war since the American Revolution, it is ingrained in me to honor all who fight for my country.
I thought you said you were gonna stay out of it?
hahaha, I am, I just wanted to thank the service people, and I got carried away. Don’t worry, I’m out.
Ramen
One thing that does worry me. How can we withdraw from such an unstable situation?
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Our respective Politicos decided, rightly or wrongly, to topple the regime. Nothing can change what has been done. Do we dare leave a demoralised, defenceless nation to fend for itself with Iran smelling blood? A state that has publicly declared it’s desire to wipe Israel off the map? Who are blatantly ignoring UN resolutions? Who will soon, if not already, possess nuclear weapons.
More pertinently, what will Israel do if we don’t act? Remember what they did to the test reactor some years ago? Then what? Both the US and UK have very strong ties with Israel.
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SALMNDR92 - Please don’t think that I hate the military or the US. Most of my family live in America. I don’t support the Government of the UK, nor that of the USA. I do support the people who have been placed in the firing line.
Oarless Marc (btw I thought you’d regained an oar?) put it very well.
I very nearly joined the Royal Air Force. I’d been accepted (I wanted to fly). I didn’t think I could handle the discipline though and thought it might interfere with my drinking schedule. So good luck to you.
Sigh…
war depresses me…
May we all one day follow His 8 “I’d really rather you didn’ts”
@ Johnny Corvette
sorry I upset you. I know the US has tried to help Darfur, but since it is mostly their governmet that is causing the genocide, action is very dificult. A little more attention to it in the UN might help. as to Isreal, you would think that we would at least HEAR about the bad things they do… but there are plenty of nice people in every country. convincing them to take a stand against injustice may be difficult, but an end to war could finally ensue.
Of course American religious extremists don’t exist either, and the President wouldn’t take any notice of them if they did.
“(btw I thought you’d regained an oar?)”
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Holy shit! Someone stole my oars again! FSMdammit. No, wait, they seem to be back. Phew. I was worried there for a moment. I think my cleaning lady had them in the wash.
The FSM Discussion is a great forum for long, in-depth dicussions of this nature. There are a few forums there, already up and running on this subject.
http://www.venganza.org/forum/viewforum.php?f=52
@SALMNDR92
That study which I cited in my previous post investigated the mortality rate before and after the coalition invasion and showed a substantial increase in the number of deaths. What they showed was 655,000 more deaths in Iraq than could be expected based on pre invasion mortality rates. So, more people are dying in Iraq now than they were under Saddam Hussein. That includes more people dying violent deaths and more people dying of disease. You cannot use Saddam’s tyranny as a justification for the war becuase Iraqis are worse off now than they ever were during his rule.
I understand those who are against war. It is only natural: “war is hellâ€. The question you need to ask yourself is whether there is ever a reason to go to war. Whether there is a point where war is the only option.
A careful look at the facts shows a very strong case for a war to topple Sadam’s regime. Iraq was a much larger threat than poor Afghanistan ever was The Clinton administration knew this and actively pursued covert and military options against Iraq. The UN knew this and repeatedly gave Sadam ultimatum after ultimatum. The US had 100,000 troops amassed indefinitely on Iraq’s borders in an attempt to maintain the mid-east truce and maintain the no-fly zone (to keep Sadam from gassing the Kurds, etc.). His regime was a danger to his own countrymen, the region and the world. I don’t really know a clearer case for war.
Maybe if Sudan started using chemical weapon on Darfur and began to develop nuclear capabilities AND declared open hostilities against the US it would as strong of a case.
After the fiasco (more a PR fiasco then a military one) in Iraq I don’t think the US has the stomach for more intervention. So I guess if it gets bad enough in Darfur or Somalia it will be up to the mighty French military or perhaps the Dutch.
I certainly hold out and hope for UN diplomacy but their track record is not great. So perhaps “Save Darfur†will go the same way “Free Tibet†has gone - namely onto faded bumper sticker for the morally superior. Tibet is all but gone – save Darfur indeed.
@Gnocci
I am not upset but I am depressed like you. I have traveled a great deal and have lived in many parts of the US and Europe and worked in the Middle East. I hate this situation we are in and I hate how it has divided the world.
@Cleopatra
Many innocent people have died in Iraq (although I would not trust any report sanctioned by the Lancet). But it is unprecedented that Iraq has free elections, a functioning government and is hopefully moving towards a peaceful future. The newfound freedom of some 40 million Iraqis has indeed exacted a horrible price. I am not sure anyone besides the Iraq people themselves can say whether this price was worth the freedom.
@Johnny Corvette
“A careful look at the facts shows a very strong case for a war to topple Sadam’s regime.”
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Rubbish! A careful look at the facts says that the US overstated the threat that Saddam posed to the region and his regime never posed any threat to the rest of the world. He never possesd weapons capable of striking outside the region and had no links with any terrorist organisations. The UN knew this and that is why the US started the war without UN approval. Kofi Annan, the secretary-general of the UN, was an outspoken critic of the US decision to fight the war. He believed that diplomacy was working and producing positive changes in Iraq. The decision to go to war was based on the “mammoth quantities” of weapons of mass destruction hoarded by Saddam that in fact did not exist. Not even 1. Colin Powell, the man who presented the case for war to the UN, acknowledges that the information he offered was misleading and regards the incident as a blot on his career. He said that it was a major failing of the intelligence community because it was known at some levels that the information was unreliable and nobody spoke up. Here is a link to an article about it:
http://abcnews.go.com/2020/Politics/story?id=1105979&page=1
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As an aside the population of Iraq is closer to 25 million than 40.
Johnny Corvette
Jan 3rd, 2007 at 11:19 pm
Yeah - same for Eddie spaghetti. This is no place for long stupid posts of regurgitated Chomsky drivel. We are easily bored and perhaps a little dim.
So let’s stick to the topic at hand. Worship of the noodly great one and funny comments about Christian nutters. Oh and maybe a smattering of Theist vs. Non- theist philosophy and discussion. But please keep it short and sweet.
And remember kids - it doesn’t matter how many people are killed, maimed or murdered as long as the US isn’t involved in some way.
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So we agree on somrthing. Short and sweet is good. What do you call short?
Yes I am long winded at times as well.
I don’t have the answers I am asking at what point is it necessary to use military force? After how many years of failed diplomacy? Should we allow a state like Iraq to have a full nuclear arsenal first? Considering that every world crisis is blamed on the US (and our supposed satellite Israel) and many rouge states are openly hostile to the US (and were so long before this war) I am not surprised the US is a little trigger happy.
From the disreputable and spineless Kofi Annan 2003 -
“ The determination of the Security Council to disarm Iraq of such weapons is the most urgent issue - because Iraq has actually used such weapons in the past, and because it has twice committed aggression against its neighbours. That is why the Security Council, ever since 1991, has passed successive resolutions requiring Iraq to disarm. On this critical question, there are no divisions, no grounds for doubt, dispute or delay. “
From the Heroic yet reluctant Collin Powell – (article you linked)
“I’m always a reluctant warrior. And I don’t resent the term, I admire the term, but when the president decided that it was not tolerable for this regime to remain in violation of all these U.N. resolutions, I’m right there with him with the use of force,”
I am done posting here. Subject doesn’t seem to fit the FSM concept and I am not that in love with the sound of my own voice. I will keep it short and sweet hereafter.
Johnny Corvette;
At what point?
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When JAPAN bombed Pearl Harbor, we attacked JAPAN.
When GERMANY sunk our ships we attacked GERMANY.
When ARABIANS based in AFGHANISTAN blew up the WTC we attacked IRAQ.
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Which one doesn’t fit.
C’mon, it’s really pretty easy.
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Eddie
Time to revive an old tradition I think… the post length warning
IT’S A BIG POST CHAPS, REALLY ONLY AIMED AT JC. SORRY.
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@Johnny Corvette
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“Should we allow a state like Iraq to have a full nuclear arsenal first?”
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Ahhh… you mean like North Korea?
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Let’s see…
A country that has stated opposition to America? Check.
That’s only a short step away from open war with another country (S. Korea)? Check.
That has successfully tested nuclear weaponry? Check.
That has a theoretical range on a missile delivery system that reaches American (Alaska, true, but still…) and worse (as far as I am concerned), Australian, soil? Check.
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The country is lead by a nutter worse than Saddam, yet I don’t hear the States doing anything about it.
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You could argue that they are afraid to get into war because it’s right next door to the one nation that’s more powerful than America…
… but surely that cannot be much worse than pissing off, and thus radicalising, a large chunk of the muslim faith?
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“But it is unprecedented that Iraq has free elections, a functioning government and is hopefully moving towards a peaceful future. The newfound freedom of some 40 million Iraqis has indeed exacted a horrible price.”
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Newfound freedom? Their government is paralysed, torn between a block of Sunnis, a large block of radicalised Shiia, and a tiny little raft of moderates. If the admittedly imprecise mainstream media is to be believed, that large block of Shiia follows Moktadr Al-Sadr… he is a very fundamental sort of guy. Interestingly enough, he doesn’t like Sunnis, he doesn’t like the west, and I very much doubt he would go in for freedom of speech, opinion, or faith.
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If Moktadr, or indeed any of the many clerics vying for power in the simmering stew of post invasion Iraq gain a significant lead, Iraq goes the way of taliban Afghanistan.
Then your much vaunted freedom vanishes.
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Eventually, the Coalition will withdraw. It has to. No elected government can keep power in the face of the appaling bloodshed. When the Americans go, the British, the Japanese, the Australians, what do you think will happen? They can’t stay, but when they go, Iraq will sink further into hell.
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There is no way to justify what the Coalition has done. This war is naught but a waste of life.
@ Jingles.
I think you are right.
It is very sad.
There is something very wrong with parents bringing up their children with so much hate.
@Johnny Corvette
“I don’t have the answers I am asking at what point is it necessary to use military force? After how many years of failed diplomacy?”
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War should always be a last resort. It was unnecessary to go to war with Iraq. As I said, “A careful look at the facts shows that the US overstated the threat that Saddam posed t