Comments on: FSM vs God http://www.venganza.org Fri, 04 Jul 2008 20:55:35 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.2 By: Cey http://www.venganza.org/spread-the-word/costumes/fsm-vs-god#comment-514645 Cey Tue, 01 Jul 2008 03:43:40 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/spread-the-word/costumes/fsm-vs-god#comment-514645 @Geltown Jesus: nothing. What people have turned Jesus into; Lots. Fortunately for Jesus, he isn't around to see what people do in his name, and fortunately for the pastafarians, people now make absurd claims about him stolen from other earlier religions. @Geltown
Jesus: nothing.
What people have turned Jesus into; Lots.
Fortunately for Jesus, he isn’t around to see what people do in his name, and fortunately for the pastafarians, people now make absurd claims about him stolen from other earlier religions.

]]> By: Geltown http://www.venganza.org/spread-the-word/costumes/fsm-vs-god#comment-514445 Geltown Mon, 30 Jun 2008 23:40:52 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/spread-the-word/costumes/fsm-vs-god#comment-514445 Religious people were the ones who wanted to kill Jesus. Jesus didn't come to earth to start a religion, he wanted to restore a relationship, between God and Humanity." A Chief of a large tribe, got word that there was a conspirator in the clan, who wanted to overthrow him. The cheif then proclaimed that who ever the traitor turned out to be, would be tied to a tree, a whipped with a cat o 9 tails, 100 times. The cheif was bewildered to find out that the conspirator was his own brother. He stayed true to his word, and tied his brother to the tree. But his Love was so Great, that the Cheif ordered himself to be tied beside him, receiveing the lashes that were meant for his brother. That's God's Love humanity. When it comes to technicalities and such, we can argue for days. But the Heart knows what is true. Let me ask you a question, what do you have against Jesus? Notice, I said Jesus, nothing about religion, church,logic, and such. What's your issue with Jesus? Religious people were the ones who wanted to kill Jesus.

Jesus didn’t come to earth to start a religion, he wanted to restore a relationship, between God and Humanity.”

A Chief of a large tribe, got word that there was a conspirator in the clan, who wanted to overthrow him. The cheif then proclaimed that who ever the traitor turned out to be, would be tied to a tree, a whipped with a cat o 9 tails, 100 times. The cheif was bewildered to find out that the conspirator was his own brother. He stayed true to his word, and tied his brother to the tree. But his Love was so Great, that the Cheif ordered himself to be tied beside him, receiveing the lashes that were meant for his brother.

That’s God’s Love humanity.

When it comes to technicalities and such, we can argue for days. But the Heart knows what is true.

Let me ask you a question, what do you have against Jesus? Notice, I said Jesus, nothing about religion, church,logic, and such. What’s your issue with Jesus?

]]> By: me http://www.venganza.org/spread-the-word/costumes/fsm-vs-god#comment-509156 me Thu, 26 Jun 2008 15:43:01 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/spread-the-word/costumes/fsm-vs-god#comment-509156 Matthew, you jump to a conclusion too soon. We cannot know if Adam is right or P.E.T. is right, we can only assess how likely each of their assertions are and whether their reasoning is sound. So far, Adam has presented poorly conducted reasoning (not his own, clearly: this does not strengthen his case), while P.E.T. has presented better reasoning. As for God being beyond words, nothing is beyond words that we can conceive of, by definition. If we can conceive of it, we can assign it words, and use existing ones to describe the meaning of that word. Those words will in turn be constructed of other meanings, or will terminate in something that may be observed, such as an experience of some kind, like an emotion, expectation, bodily sensation or state of mind, sound, object or attribute of an object, a geometric property, a property of light and so on. These are the things our brains evolved to cope with, as they have been important aspects of our environment over evolutionary time. Some of these things may be reduced further by newer types of thought that go beyond our natural experiences (the kind I just described), using language in the opposite direction and taking highly generic, that is abstract, notions and constructing from those new concepts from which an explanation of those basic elements of our experience can be understood Those new understandings are rarely intuitive, and often require a particular natural configuration of the elements of the brain(1) which is quite rare in order to be conceived of easily. Most people can grasp these new understandings of the world with effort. Sadly, most people don't have the time to do so, working three jobs in the miracle that is the US economy or in one of the sweatshop or subsistence economies as they do. Others, including yourself I suspect, do not have the inclination, as they perceive that they have too much to lose. You should realize, by the way, that understanding evolution (it is a fact, not a theory in the common sense, just as the theory of quantum electrodynamics or the theory of relativity are facts, and not theories in the common sense) does not require a loss of faith unless that faith is poorly founded. Such a poor foundation comes from a "faith" of surrender to earthly authority-- the very thing Christ himself challenged. (1) which is the cause of the common personality types, I suspect Matthew, you jump to a conclusion too soon. We cannot know if Adam is right or P.E.T. is right, we can only assess how likely each of their assertions are and whether their reasoning is sound. So far, Adam has presented poorly conducted reasoning (not his own, clearly: this does not strengthen his case), while P.E.T. has presented better reasoning.

As for God being beyond words, nothing is beyond words that we can conceive of, by definition. If we can conceive of it, we can assign it words, and use existing ones to describe the meaning of that word. Those words will in turn be constructed of other meanings, or will terminate in something that may be observed, such as an experience of some kind, like an emotion, expectation, bodily sensation or state of mind, sound, object or attribute of an object, a geometric property, a property of light and so on. These are the things our brains evolved to cope with, as they have been important aspects of our environment over evolutionary time. Some of these things may be reduced further by newer types of thought that go beyond our natural experiences (the kind I just described), using language in the opposite direction and taking highly generic, that is abstract, notions and constructing from those new concepts from which an explanation of those basic elements of our experience can be understood

Those new understandings are rarely intuitive, and often require a particular natural configuration of the elements of the brain(1) which is quite rare in order to be conceived of easily. Most people can grasp these new understandings of the world with effort. Sadly, most people don’t have the time to do so, working three jobs in the miracle that is the US economy or in one of the sweatshop or subsistence economies as they do. Others, including yourself I suspect, do not have the inclination, as they perceive that they have too much to lose. You should realize, by the way, that understanding evolution (it is a fact, not a theory in the common sense, just as the theory of quantum electrodynamics or the theory of relativity are facts, and not theories in the common sense) does not require a loss of faith unless that faith is poorly founded. Such a poor foundation comes from a “faith” of surrender to earthly authority– the very thing Christ himself challenged.

(1) which is the cause of the common personality types, I suspect

]]> By: Shelly http://www.venganza.org/spread-the-word/costumes/fsm-vs-god#comment-504645 Shelly Mon, 23 Jun 2008 11:42:02 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/spread-the-word/costumes/fsm-vs-god#comment-504645 First of all why are you attacking Christians? Sounds like someone holds a grudge against someone and can't let go. You actually just prove the Bible to me more correct when you make up a flying spaghetti monster....Jude 1:16-19 16] These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage. [17] But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; [18] How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts. [19] These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit. I live in Springfield, Missouri and i do see the sign holders , they are just standing up for what they believe in..however i don't necessarily agree with the approach. In their eyes they are showing love, Love for God and Jesus and love to warn others from the judgement of God. No one wants to think about the judgement of God even Christians because we know we are all sinners that fall short but Our God provided us an escape route from that judgement his name is Jesus and personifies Love and to those who believe and he becomes our existence and our purpose but the Bible clearly states that ungodly men won't understand spiritual things 1Corinthians 2:10-16 10] But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. [11] For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. [12] Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. [13] Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. [14] But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. [15] But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. [16] For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ. again adding up...so if they is trying to be offensive i'm sorry but i'm not offended. I only know about this site because my brother told me about it. anyways i put a web page that is very interesting and i think it explains science vs God and proves God through science etc take a look if you're open to it. thanks Shelly First of all why are you attacking Christians? Sounds like someone holds a grudge against someone and can’t let go. You actually just prove the Bible to me more correct when you make up a flying spaghetti monster….Jude 1:16-19 16] These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men’s persons in admiration because of advantage.
[17] But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;
[18] How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
[19] These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.

I live in Springfield, Missouri and i do see the sign holders , they are just standing up for what they believe in..however i don’t necessarily agree with the approach. In their eyes they are showing love, Love for God and Jesus and love to warn others from the judgement of God. No one wants to think about the judgement of God even Christians because we know we are all sinners that fall short but Our God provided us an escape route from that judgement his name is Jesus and personifies Love and to those who believe and he becomes our existence and our purpose but the Bible clearly states that ungodly men won’t understand spiritual things 1Corinthians 2:10-16 10] But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
[11] For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
[12] Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
[13] Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
[14] But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
[15] But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
[16] For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
again adding up…so if they is trying to be offensive i’m sorry but i’m not offended. I only know about this site because my brother told me about it. anyways i put a web page that is very interesting and i think it explains science vs God and proves God through science etc take a look if you’re open to it. thanks

Shelly

]]> By: Pirates Evolve Too http://www.venganza.org/spread-the-word/costumes/fsm-vs-god#comment-487189 Pirates Evolve Too Tue, 10 Jun 2008 15:53:59 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/spread-the-word/costumes/fsm-vs-god#comment-487189 Matthew, I don't mean for this to be a "counter," but I have to respond so that others reading these posts know where each of us stand and what arguments are strong. True, science can't explain god. No one is going to argue that. But what does that mean? Science is able to explain a significant portion of the physical phenomena that occur in the world and universe through application of theory. I think "theory" needs to be clarified. People tend to associate the word "theory" with the word "guess" and this is not a correct association. A theory is a well-tested hypothesis that has withstood rigorous scientific experimentation. An untested intelligent "guess" is simply an hypothesis. Scientists back up their theories with application: when you have a headache and take advil or aspirin, you are aiding science is proving a theory of medicine; when you turn on your T.V. you are helping to prove theory of electrical properties; when you wash your hands, you are inherently trusting that there are germs and this is based on scientific theory; when you travel on a plane you are trusting the theory of aerodynamics to pick you up off the ground. Theories are inherent in everyday life and in this sense, ALL of what scientists say is based on theory (not only half as you suggest), but this is not a bad thing, this is the basis for scientific progress. . If your argument, Matthew, is simply that god must be believed through faith then I cannot argue that. The faith argument is untouchable but scientifically makes no sense. If you're okay with that, then I have nothing more to comment on. However, if you accept the scientific method as providing answers to the world around us, it seems unfair to invoke faith in the face of that. If the universe, the world, life and all that it entails can be explained through scientific theory, what place does god hold if he/she/it cannot be explained in a similar way? Innumerable questions arise about the nature of god, its power, intentions and existence that must be taken solely on faith. For those people that don't have a problem with this and that believe in this god in a personal way without forcing their beliefs on others, I have no qualms; however, for those that believe in this god and have a more-righteous-than-thou mentality of conversion, I have plenty of arguments! That being said, I enjoy open dialog with those believers with open minds, so please, feel free to write. . P.E.T. Matthew,
I don’t mean for this to be a “counter,” but I have to respond so that others reading these posts know where each of us stand and what arguments are strong. True, science can’t explain god. No one is going to argue that. But what does that mean? Science is able to explain a significant portion of the physical phenomena that occur in the world and universe through application of theory. I think “theory” needs to be clarified. People tend to associate the word “theory” with the word “guess” and this is not a correct association. A theory is a well-tested hypothesis that has withstood rigorous scientific experimentation. An untested intelligent “guess” is simply an hypothesis. Scientists back up their theories with application: when you have a headache and take advil or aspirin, you are aiding science is proving a theory of medicine; when you turn on your T.V. you are helping to prove theory of electrical properties; when you wash your hands, you are inherently trusting that there are germs and this is based on scientific theory; when you travel on a plane you are trusting the theory of aerodynamics to pick you up off the ground. Theories are inherent in everyday life and in this sense, ALL of what scientists say is based on theory (not only half as you suggest), but this is not a bad thing, this is the basis for scientific progress.
.
If your argument, Matthew, is simply that god must be believed through faith then I cannot argue that. The faith argument is untouchable but scientifically makes no sense. If you’re okay with that, then I have nothing more to comment on. However, if you accept the scientific method as providing answers to the world around us, it seems unfair to invoke faith in the face of that. If the universe, the world, life and all that it entails can be explained through scientific theory, what place does god hold if he/she/it cannot be explained in a similar way? Innumerable questions arise about the nature of god, its power, intentions and existence that must be taken solely on faith. For those people that don’t have a problem with this and that believe in this god in a personal way without forcing their beliefs on others, I have no qualms; however, for those that believe in this god and have a more-righteous-than-thou mentality of conversion, I have plenty of arguments! That being said, I enjoy open dialog with those believers with open minds, so please, feel free to write.
.
P.E.T.

]]> By: Matthew http://www.venganza.org/spread-the-word/costumes/fsm-vs-god#comment-485427 Matthew Mon, 09 Jun 2008 18:52:33 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/spread-the-word/costumes/fsm-vs-god#comment-485427 ADAM IS RIGHT AND P.E.T. is RIGHT God, and Jesus can not be explained in words. PET you are right in your counters and they do make sence, but ADAM's story was (by the way NOT Einstein) straight from The Bible and had his facts all correct. The story was very interesting and I have never came across it before but God CAN NOT be explained in science. Half the stuff scientests say are theory, AND God IS NOT THEORY! but in theory he does not make sence, but like I have learned God does not show up on Earth, I have tryed to see God, or a vision but you can not try to prove god to yourself you must follow the path of god and god will come to you in time but all I can say is, God is not explainable please dont reply counters to this small bit im not here for compotetition but... Peace Be With You and have a great day - Matthew ADAM IS RIGHT AND P.E.T. is RIGHT

God, and Jesus can not be explained in words. PET you are right in your counters and they do make sence, but ADAM’s story was (by the way NOT Einstein) straight from The Bible and had his facts all correct. The story was very interesting and I have never came across it before but God CAN NOT be explained in science. Half the stuff scientests say are theory, AND God IS NOT THEORY! but in theory he does not make sence, but like I have learned God does not show up on Earth, I have tryed to see God, or a vision but you can not try to prove god to yourself you must follow the path of god and god will come to you in time but all I can say is, God is not explainable please dont reply counters to this small bit im not here for compotetition but… Peace Be With You and have a great day

- Matthew

]]> By: Pirates Evolve Too http://www.venganza.org/spread-the-word/costumes/fsm-vs-god#comment-477928 Pirates Evolve Too Wed, 04 Jun 2008 18:35:54 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/spread-the-word/costumes/fsm-vs-god#comment-477928 Adam, We've all heard the story before and it's a nice anecdote. There as some clarifications that should be made about it, however. The student in the story equates the light vs. darkness and hot vs. cold analogy with the evil vs. god analogy (says they are "like" one another). In the story, the professor goes along with this; in real life the professor should have (would have) countered this argument. Light and heat are physical properties of the universe. They are quantifiable entities and can thus be specifically measured. They follow physical principals and laws (if the student was Einstein, he would surely understand this). "Evil," however, is not the opposite of "god," it's the opposite of "good." Evil is the name to which humans have labeled all things that are not morally responsible and is thus a human invention. In other words, evil (good vs. bad) varies from culture to culture and is thus not a universally accepted notion. It is not quantifiable and it does not follow physical laws. Thus there is a gap in the student's logic when he counters his professor. . Given, the professor's argument is weak to begin with and he does make the assumption of simple dualities between light vs. dark, etc. But the student's arguments miss the mark. Evolution is witnessed every day among microscopic lifeforms (i.e. bacteria). Unfortunately, our own lifespans and those of most living things around us are far too long to observe thousands, if not millions, of generations and thus witness large-scale change. However, the fossil record is full of such changes and produces varied forms along a continuation of variation from one archaic form to more evolved later forms (we see this for humans as well as all other lifeforms). Thus evolution is visible, can be seen, and thus the old turn-the-table argument of religion is not applicable. Regarding having never seen the professor's brain, the student's (no doubt) have all seen a brain before, though not the professor's. The knowledge based on previous experience that all humans have brains would rightly infer (if you want to call this faith, it based on previous experience) that the professor does, in fact, also have a brain. I would say the same thing for religion if I had ever seen a god before (or any spiritual being). Because previous experience states that spiritual beings exist, I would rightly infer that god exists. But I haven't seen these things, they haven't been demonstrated, and thus I do not have the necessary information to infer that god exists. . The arguments are flawed in the original story, but these are a few of the ways that I would counter them. . P.E.T. Adam,
We’ve all heard the story before and it’s a nice anecdote. There as some clarifications that should be made about it, however. The student in the story equates the light vs. darkness and hot vs. cold analogy with the evil vs. god analogy (says they are “like” one another). In the story, the professor goes along with this; in real life the professor should have (would have) countered this argument. Light and heat are physical properties of the universe. They are quantifiable entities and can thus be specifically measured. They follow physical principals and laws (if the student was Einstein, he would surely understand this). “Evil,” however, is not the opposite of “god,” it’s the opposite of “good.” Evil is the name to which humans have labeled all things that are not morally responsible and is thus a human invention. In other words, evil (good vs. bad) varies from culture to culture and is thus not a universally accepted notion. It is not quantifiable and it does not follow physical laws. Thus there is a gap in the student’s logic when he counters his professor.
.
Given, the professor’s argument is weak to begin with and he does make the assumption of simple dualities between light vs. dark, etc. But the student’s arguments miss the mark. Evolution is witnessed every day among microscopic lifeforms (i.e. bacteria). Unfortunately, our own lifespans and those of most living things around us are far too long to observe thousands, if not millions, of generations and thus witness large-scale change. However, the fossil record is full of such changes and produces varied forms along a continuation of variation from one archaic form to more evolved later forms (we see this for humans as well as all other lifeforms). Thus evolution is visible, can be seen, and thus the old turn-the-table argument of religion is not applicable. Regarding having never seen the professor’s brain, the student’s (no doubt) have all seen a brain before, though not the professor’s. The knowledge based on previous experience that all humans have brains would rightly infer (if you want to call this faith, it based on previous experience) that the professor does, in fact, also have a brain. I would say the same thing for religion if I had ever seen a god before (or any spiritual being). Because previous experience states that spiritual beings exist, I would rightly infer that god exists. But I haven’t seen these things, they haven’t been demonstrated, and thus I do not have the necessary information to infer that god exists.
.
The arguments are flawed in the original story, but these are a few of the ways that I would counter them.
.
P.E.T.

]]> By: Andrea http://www.venganza.org/spread-the-word/costumes/fsm-vs-god#comment-474925 Andrea Tue, 03 Jun 2008 02:41:40 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/spread-the-word/costumes/fsm-vs-god#comment-474925 i love the story by adam!! ive read it before and i've always smiled. i love the story by adam!! ive read it before and i’ve always smiled.

]]> By: Purushadasa http://www.venganza.org/spread-the-word/costumes/fsm-vs-god#comment-461394 Purushadasa Sun, 25 May 2008 13:15:53 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/spread-the-word/costumes/fsm-vs-god#comment-461394 The presence of counterfeit currency is the greatest testimony to the authentic value of the real currency. After all, who would bother going to the trouble and risk of producing a counterfeit version of something nonexistent or something without real value? Thank you for offering this testimony to the infinite value and authenticity of God by displaying so blatantly this obvious counterfeit. Only a madman would go to the trouble of producing a counterfeit God, if the real God were not there, and of infinite value Himself. Are you a madman? That is for you to answer. The sheer volume of counterfeit versions of God not only testifies to His mere existence in reality, but it moreover attests to His immense value as an authentic item: nobody produces counterfeit pennies. The greater the value of the authentic item, the more attempts will be made to produce a counterfeit. This principle applies both to currency and to God. You can truly prove yourself to be sane and intelligent by focusing your attention on the authentic item with real value, God. Only fools and madmen concentrate on the item of lesser value, the counterfeit. Show the world your true intelligence starting now. The presence of counterfeit currency is the greatest testimony to the authentic value of the real currency. After all, who would bother going to the trouble and risk of producing a counterfeit version of something nonexistent or something without real value?

Thank you for offering this testimony to the infinite value and authenticity of God by displaying so blatantly this obvious counterfeit.

Only a madman would go to the trouble of producing a counterfeit God, if the real God were not there, and of infinite value Himself. Are you a madman? That is for you to answer.

The sheer volume of counterfeit versions of God not only testifies to His mere existence in reality, but it moreover attests to His immense value as an authentic item: nobody produces counterfeit pennies. The greater the value of the authentic item, the more attempts will be made to produce a counterfeit. This principle applies both to currency and to God.

You can truly prove yourself to be sane and intelligent by focusing your attention on the authentic item with real value, God. Only fools and madmen concentrate on the item of lesser value, the counterfeit.

Show the world your true intelligence starting now.

]]> By: Abys http://www.venganza.org/spread-the-word/costumes/fsm-vs-god#comment-458120 Abys Fri, 23 May 2008 15:19:26 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/spread-the-word/costumes/fsm-vs-god#comment-458120 Adam- How can God be absent? I thought he was omnipresent? Or is it that he's just capable of being all places at one time but doesn't always use that capability? So then he chooses to be absent from us? What's that you say? We choose to be absent from him? So, in turn, he chooses to allow us to be absent from him? Also, your heat analogy? Awesome except that heat isn't in control of itself, while I assume that you believe god is. That's what you say at least, god is in control. So is he or isn't he? Adam- How can God be absent? I thought he was omnipresent? Or is it that he’s just capable of being all places at one time but doesn’t always use that capability? So then he chooses to be absent from us? What’s that you say? We choose to be absent from him? So, in turn, he chooses to allow us to be absent from him? Also, your heat analogy? Awesome except that heat isn’t in control of itself, while I assume that you believe god is. That’s what you say at least, god is in control. So is he or isn’t he?

]]> By: theodore hagar http://www.venganza.org/spread-the-word/costumes/fsm-vs-god#comment-455475 theodore hagar Thu, 22 May 2008 03:45:40 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/spread-the-word/costumes/fsm-vs-god#comment-455475 Adam-obviously u dont know how to make pasta. you must measure the temperature with a thermometer. This device measures the amount of heat. thus proving the existance of TFSM. its science.- RAmen Adam-obviously u dont know how to make pasta. you must measure the temperature with a thermometer. This device measures the amount of heat. thus proving the existance of TFSM. its science.- RAmen

]]> By: Deadweight The Pirate http://www.venganza.org/spread-the-word/costumes/fsm-vs-god#comment-442665 Deadweight The Pirate Tue, 13 May 2008 19:46:34 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/spread-the-word/costumes/fsm-vs-god#comment-442665 RE: ANSWER WWFSMD: What would the The Flying Spaghetti Monster Do Also, WWJD: What would Jesus Do? the answer to this, of course is HWCTFSM: He would convert to FSM :D -RAmen RE: ANSWER
WWFSMD: What would the The Flying Spaghetti Monster Do

Also, WWJD: What would Jesus Do?
the answer to this, of course is
HWCTFSM: He would convert to FSM :D

-RAmen

]]> By: COG http://www.venganza.org/spread-the-word/costumes/fsm-vs-god#comment-436731 COG Thu, 08 May 2008 21:01:47 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/spread-the-word/costumes/fsm-vs-god#comment-436731 Adam, The Faith vs. Science story was AWSOME!!! God is AWSOME!! Adam,
The Faith vs. Science story was AWSOME!!!
God is AWSOME!!

]]> By: adam http://www.venganza.org/spread-the-word/costumes/fsm-vs-god#comment-430329 adam Mon, 05 May 2008 20:10:37 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/spread-the-word/costumes/fsm-vs-god#comment-430329 Faith vs. Science This is brilliant! Read this to the end. I’ve heard the student was Albert Einstein, but I’m not 100% sure. A science professor begins his school year with a lecture to the students, "Let me explain the problem science has with religion." The atheist professor of philosophy pauses before his class and then asks one of his new students to stand. "You’re a Christian, aren’t you, son?" "Yes sir," the student says. "So you believe in God?" "Absolutely. " "Is God good?" "Sure! God’s good. " "Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?" "Yes. " "Are you good or evil?" "The Bible says I’m evil. " The professor grins knowingly. "Aha! The Bible!" He considers for a moment. "Here’s one for you. Let’s say there’s a sick person over here and you can cure him. You can do it. Would you help him? Would you try?" "Yes sir, I would. " "So you’re good...!" "I wouldn’t say that. " "But why not say that? You’d help a sick and maimed person if you could. Most of us would if we could. But God doesn’t. " The student does not answer, so the professor continues. "He doesn’t, does he? My brother was a Christian who died of cancer, even though he prayed to Jesus to heal him. How is this Jesus good? Hmmm? Can you answer that one?" The student remains silent. "No, you can’t, can you?" the professor says. He takes a sip of water from a glass on his desk to give the student time to relax. "Let’s start again, young fella. Is God good?" "Er...yes," the student says. "Is Satan good?" The student doesn’t hesitate on this one. "No. " "Then where does Satan come from?" The student falters. "From God" "That’s right. God made Satan, didn’t he? Tell me, son. Is there evil in this world?" "Yes, sir. " "Evil’s everywhere, isn’t it? And God did make everything, correct?" "Yes. " "So who created evil?" The professor continued, "If God created everything, then God created evil, since evil exists, and according to the principle that our works define who we are, then God is evil. " Again, the student has no answer. "Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things, do they exist in this world?" The student squirms on his feet. "Yes. " "So who created them?" The student does not answer again, so the professor repeats his question. "Who created them?" There is still no answer. Suddenly the lecturer breaks away to pace in front of the classroom. The class is mesmerized. "Tell me," he continues onto another student. "Do you believe in Jesus Christ, son?" The student’s voice betrays him and cracks. "Yes, professor, I do. " The old man stops pacing. "Science says you have five senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Have you ever seen Jesus?" "No sir. I’ve never seen Him. " "Then tell us if you’ve ever heard your Jesus?" "No, sir, I have not. " "Have you ever felt your Jesus, tasted your Jesus or smelt your Jesus? Have you ever had any sensory perception of Jesus Christ, or God for that matter?" "No, sir, I’m afraid I haven’t. " "Yet you still believe in him?" "Yes. " "According to the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says your God doesn’t exist. What do you say to that, son?" "Nothing," the student replies. "I only have my faith. " "Yes, faith," the professor repeats. "And that is the problem science has with God. There is no evidence, only faith. " The student stands quietly for a moment, before asking a question of His own. "Professor, is there such thing as heat?" "Yes," the professor replies. "There’s heat. " "And is there such a thing as cold?" "Yes, son, there’s cold too. " "No sir, there isn’t. " The professor turns to face the student, obviously interested. The room suddenly becomes very quiet. The student begins to explain. "You can have lots of heat, even more heat, super-heat, mega-heat, unlimited heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat, but we don’t have anything called ’cold’. We can hit up to 458 degrees below zero, which is no heat, but we can’t go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold; otherwise we would be able to go colder than the lowest -458 degrees. " "Every body or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy. Absolute zero (-458 F) is the total absence of heat. You see, sir, cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat we can measure in thermal units because heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of h eat, sir, just the absence of it. " Silence across the room. A pen drops somewhere in the classroom, sounding like a hammer. "What about darkness, professor. Is there such a thing as darkness?" "Yes," the professor replies without hesitation. "What is night if it isn’t darkness?" "You’re wrong again, sir. Darkness is not something; it is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light, but if you have no light constantly you have nothing and it’s called darkness, isn’t it? That’s the meaning we use to define the word. " "In reality, darkness isn’t. If it were, you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn’t you?" The professor begins to smile at the student in front of him. This will be a good semester. "So what point are you making, young man?" "Yes, professor. My point is, your philosophical premise is flawed to start with, and so your conclusion must also be flawed. " The professor’s face cannot hide his surprise this time. "Flawed? Can you explain how?" "You are working on the premise of duality," the student explains. "You argue that there is life and then there’s death; a good God and a bad God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, science can’t even explain a thought. " "It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life, just the absence of it. " "Now tell me, professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?" "If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, young man, yes, of course I do. " "Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?" The professor begins to shake his head, still smiling, as he realizes where the argument is going. A very good semester, indeed. "Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor, are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you now not a scientist, but a preacher?" The class is in uproar. The student remains silent until the commotion has subsided. "To continue the point you were making earlier to the other student, let me give you an example of what I mean. " The student looks around the room. "Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the professor’s brain?" T he class breaks out into laughter. "Is there anyone here who has ever heard the professor’s brain, felt the professor’s brain, touched or smelt the professor’s brain? No one appears to have done so. So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no brain, with all due respect, sir. " "So if science says you have no brain, how can we trust your lectures, sir?" Now the room is silent. The professor just stares at the student, his face unreadable. Finally, after what seems an eternity, the old man answers. "I guess you’ll have to take them on faith. " "Now, you accept that there is faith, and, in fact, faith exists with life," the student continues. "Now, sir, is there such a thing as evil?" Now uncertain, the professor responds, "Of course, there is. We see it everyday. It is in the daily example of man’s inhumanity to man. It is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. These manifestations are nothing else but evil. " To this the student replied, "Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God’s love present in his heart. It’s like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darknes s that comes when there is no light. " The professor sat down. Faith vs.

Science

This is brilliant! Read this to the end. I’ve heard the student was Albert Einstein, but I’m not 100% sure.

A science professor begins his school year with a lecture to the students, “Let me explain the problem science has with religion.” The atheist professor of philosophy pauses before his class and then asks one of his new students to stand.

“You’re a Christian, aren’t you, son?”
“Yes sir,” the student says.

“So you believe in God?”
“Absolutely.

”

“Is God good?”
“Sure! God’s good.

”

“Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?”
“Yes.

”

“Are you good or evil?”
“The Bible says I’m evil.

”

The professor grins knowingly. “Aha! The Bible!” He considers for a moment. “Here’s one for you. Let’s say there’s a sick person over here and you can cure him. You can do it.

Would you help him? Would you try?”

“Yes sir, I would.

”
“So you’re good…!”
“I wouldn’t say that.

”

“But why not say that? You’d help a sick and maimed person if you could. Most of us would if we could. But God doesn’t.

”

The student does not answer, so the professor continues. “He doesn’t, does he? My brother was a Christian who died of cancer, even though he prayed to Jesus to heal him.

How is this Jesus good? Hmmm? Can you answer that one?”

The student remains silent.

“No, you can’t, can you?” the professor says. He takes a sip of water from a glass on his desk to give the student time to relax.

“Let’s start again, young fella.

Is God good?”
“Er…yes,” the student says.

“Is Satan good?”
The student doesn’t hesitate on this one. “No.

”

“Then where does Satan come from?”
The student falters.

“From God”

“That’s right. God made Satan, didn’t he? Tell me, son.

Is there evil in this world?”
“Yes, sir.

”

“Evil’s everywhere, isn’t it? And God did make everything, correct?”

“Yes.

”

“So who created evil?” The professor continued, “If God created everything, then God created evil, since evil exists, and according to the principle that our works define who we are, then God is evil.

”

Again, the student has no answer.

“Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things, do they exist in this world?”

The student squirms on his feet. “Yes.

”

“So who created them?”

The student does not answer again, so the professor repeats his question. “Who created them?” There is still no answer. Suddenly the lecturer breaks away to pace in front of the classroom. The class is mesmerized. “Tell me,” he continues onto another student.

“Do you believe in Jesus Christ, son?”

The student’s voice betrays him and cracks. “Yes, professor, I do.

”

The old man stops pacing. “Science says you have five senses you use to identify and observe the world around you.

Have you ever seen Jesus?”

“No sir. I’ve never seen Him.

”

“Then tell us if you’ve ever heard your Jesus?”
“No, sir, I have not.

”

“Have you ever felt your Jesus, tasted your Jesus or smelt your Jesus? Have you ever had any sensory perception of Jesus Christ, or God for that matter?”

“No, sir, I’m afraid I haven’t.

”
“Yet you still believe in him?”
“Yes.

”

“According to the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says your God doesn’t exist.

What do you say to that, son?”

“Nothing,” the student replies. “I only have my faith.

”
“Yes, faith,” the professor repeats. “And that is the problem science has with God. There is no evidence, only faith.

”

The student stands quietly for a moment, before asking a question of His own.

“Professor, is there such thing as heat?”

“Yes,” the professor replies. “There’s heat.

”

“And is there such a thing as cold?”
“Yes, son, there’s cold too.

”
“No sir, there isn’t.

”

The professor turns to face the student, obviously interested. The room suddenly becomes very quiet. The student begins to explain. “You can have lots of heat, even more heat, super-heat, mega-heat, unlimited heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat, but we don’t have anything called ’cold’. We can hit up to 458 degrees below zero, which is no heat, but we can’t go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold; otherwise we would be able to go colder than the lowest -458 degrees.

”

“Every body or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy. Absolute zero (-458 F) is the total absence of heat. You see, sir, cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat we can measure in thermal units because heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of h eat, sir, just the absence of it.

”

Silence across the room. A pen drops somewhere in the classroom, sounding like a hammer.

“What about darkness, professor.

Is there such a thing as darkness?”

“Yes,” the professor replies without hesitation.

“What is night if it isn’t darkness?”

“You’re wrong again, sir. Darkness is not something; it is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light, but if you have no light constantly you have nothing and it’s called darkness, isn’t it? That’s the meaning we use to define the word.

”
“In reality, darkness isn’t.

If it were, you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn’t you?”

The professor begins to smile at the student in front of him. This will be a good semester.

“So what point are you making, young man?”

“Yes, professor. My point is, your philosophical premise is flawed to start with, and so your conclusion must also be flawed.

”

The professor’s face cannot hide his surprise this time.

“Flawed? Can you explain how?”

“You are working on the premise of duality,” the student explains. “You argue that there is life and then there’s death; a good God and a bad God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, science can’t even explain a thought.

”

“It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life, just the absence of it.

”

“Now tell me, professor.

Do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?”

“If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, young man, yes, of course I do.

”

“Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?”

The professor begins to shake his head, still smiling, as he realizes where the argument is going. A very good semester, indeed.

“Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor, are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you now not a scientist, but a preacher?”

The class is in uproar. The student remains silent until the commotion has subsided.

“To continue the point you were making earlier to the other student, let me give you an example of what I mean.

”

The student looks around the room. “Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the professor’s brain?” T he class breaks out into laughter.

“Is there anyone here who has ever heard the professor’s brain, felt the professor’s brain, touched or smelt the professor’s brain? No one appears to have done so. So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no brain, with all due respect, sir.

”

“So if science says you have no brain, how can we trust your lectures, sir?”

Now the room is silent. The professor just stares at the student, his face unreadable.

Finally, after what seems an eternity, the old man answers. “I guess you’ll have to take them on faith.

”

“Now, you accept that there is faith, and, in fact, faith exists with life,” the student continues.

“Now, sir, is there such a thing as evil?”

Now uncertain, the professor responds, “Of course, there is. We see it everyday. It is in the daily example of man’s inhumanity to man. It is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. These manifestations are nothing else but evil.

”

To this the student replied, “Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God’s love present in his heart. It’s like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darknes s that comes when there is no light.

”

The professor sat down.

]]> By: fsm maybe http://www.venganza.org/spread-the-word/costumes/fsm-vs-god#comment-416693 fsm maybe Wed, 30 Apr 2008 17:20:30 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/spread-the-word/costumes/fsm-vs-god#comment-416693 I ate him yesterday and mmm mmm mmm how good he was, and I was truly touched by his noodly appendage! RAmen I ate him yesterday and mmm mmm mmm how good he was, and I was truly touched by his noodly appendage! RAmen

]]> By: fsm maybe http://www.venganza.org/spread-the-word/costumes/fsm-vs-god#comment-416691 fsm maybe Wed, 30 Apr 2008 17:18:51 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/spread-the-word/costumes/fsm-vs-god#comment-416691 I ate him yesterday and mmm mmm mmm he was so good I was truely touched by his noodly appendage I ate him yesterday and mmm mmm mmm he was so good I was truely touched by his noodly appendage

]]> By: fsm maybe http://www.venganza.org/spread-the-word/costumes/fsm-vs-god#comment-416681 fsm maybe Wed, 30 Apr 2008 17:15:09 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/spread-the-word/costumes/fsm-vs-god#comment-416681 god would definatly win sorry fsm but he is so much better even though i believe ha! RAmen not you stinking losers god would definatly win sorry fsm but he is so much better even though i believe ha! RAmen not you stinking losers

]]> By: Michael http://www.venganza.org/spread-the-word/costumes/fsm-vs-god#comment-384627 Michael Mon, 14 Apr 2008 14:28:06 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/spread-the-word/costumes/fsm-vs-god#comment-384627 WHAT WOULD FLYING SPAGHETTI MONSTER DO??? WHAT WOULD FLYING SPAGHETTI MONSTER DO???

]]> By: Piratey Ninja http://www.venganza.org/spread-the-word/costumes/fsm-vs-god#comment-374457 Piratey Ninja Wed, 09 Apr 2008 16:58:40 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/spread-the-word/costumes/fsm-vs-god#comment-374457 Funny idea here, try maybe making a youtube vid next time. One question to all; I have the biggest problem -ever-! I'm a Pastafarian (yay!) so I obviously think Pirates are awsome as heck. BUT I've also been taking Ninpo (ancient ninja martial art self defense...thing...) for the last few years, ergo making me also love Ninjas! How do I decide?! :P RAmen. Funny idea here, try maybe making a youtube vid next time. One question to all; I have the biggest problem -ever-! I’m a Pastafarian (yay!) so I obviously think Pirates are awsome as heck. BUT I’ve also been taking Ninpo (ancient ninja martial art self defense…thing…) for the last few years, ergo making me also love Ninjas! How do I decide?! :P

RAmen.

]]> By: answer!!! http://www.venganza.org/spread-the-word/costumes/fsm-vs-god#comment-348132 answer!!! Sun, 30 Mar 2008 20:40:59 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/spread-the-word/costumes/fsm-vs-god#comment-348132 what does "WWSFMD?" mean? sorry, im new. please answer what does “WWSFMD?” mean? sorry, im new. please answer

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