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An elaborate spoof on Intelligent Design, The Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster is neither too elaborate nor too spoofy to succeed in nailing the fallacies of ID. It's even wackier than Jonathan Swift's suggestion that the Irish eat their children as a way to keep them from being a burden, and it may offend just as many people, but Henderson, described elsewhere as a 25-year-old "out-of-work physics major," puts satire to the same serious use that Swift did. Oh, yes, it is very funny. -- Scientific American
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@Religious monster Dec 4th, 2007 at 12:56 pm
“Does God give you a sigarette and then ask you to go and take a smoke every day to get Cancer?”
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Your ignorance is mind numbing! You think “sigarettes” are the only cause of cancer……..GRRR!
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“Does God ask you to have unprotected sex so that you can get AIDS?”
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Are aware how many nutter religious missionaries are preaching against the use of condoms in AIDS rife areas, like West Africa, right now even as I type? I believe their preaching is i) condom use goes against gods word and ii) that condoms don’t really help to prevent the spread of AIDS! Many more people are dying unecessarily as a result of this religous dogma indoctrination.
Also the more people that get the HIV virus (the one that causes AIDS in case you didn’t know) also means the more of the virus there is to go around!!!
Your statement marks you as a completely ignorant idiot!!
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“Does God ask you to drink as much alcohol as you can before having a baby?”
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What on earth is that supposed to mean??
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“Does God ask of us to start religious wars and futher spread diseases?”
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Well I’ve heard George Bush said God told him to start the war with Iraq. Bush didn’t say whether God mentioned preading disease.
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Religious monster, how on earth did you ever manage to learn to use a computer well enough to post here? Do your parents know you are coming on this site spouting absolute crap?
Maybe “Religous monster” is a troll making fun of the fundies?
Please, please let it be so Oh Great Noodly One!
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@REligious Monster. It’s easy to have all the knowledge you need when you assume (which is all your faith really is) what you look to prove. You can beg the question until you are blue in the face, bur the fact is your religion makes no sense. To assume that there exists a higher sense, a system of reason beyond human reason is just plain gargage.
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@Old Grouch
I’m not refuting a cultural myth. I’m refuting the claim made by people like Ariel that a flood covered the entire world around 4000 years ago. If you looked at the other posts before the fish one, you will see that we are merely using logic to refute the literal truth of the bible. I know you your self see it as a source of inspiration rather than the ‘Honest to God truth’. But Ariel made the absurd claim that that, not only is the bible version the truth, but no one is able to disprove it. Clearly we have, not just with the saline tolerance of fish but with the fact that one family can not give rise to 6billion decedents in 4000 year, including every race of human, even if you discount the millions who died of things like the black death, various wars, acts of genocide est.
I’m sure there are accounts in many civilisations about devastating floods. We had some in England this year. Thousands of years ago these events could have devastated the populations of local tribes. Indeed they still do, and with out the modern technology such events would be even more devastating.
Think of it this way; if the people in a flood area had no contact with those out side via radio, telephone, TV or carrier pigeon the flood would appear to cover everything. In fact it would only cover the area they inhabit, but how would they know better?
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@ Religious monster
How can you have a personal relationship with a dead guy you’ve never met? “It hurts not to be able to convince all people” why? Atheists don’t try to convert you we just point out inconsistencies with what is clamed. We seek the truth, not just clam to have it written down in a self contradictory book.
You may see this as an attack, I say if you have an opinion be prepared to back it up, if not you shouldn’t be allowed to have one.
I have a problem with religion because for all the marginal types there are just as many fanatics who would actively seek to destroy human achievements that don’t fit in with their narrow world view. They are the ones who burn books and will take an opportunity to do great evil in the name of good!
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“Maybe then I should rather ask you for how long will mankind still walk this earth.”
For as long as we can adapt until environmental factors give us no choice but to evolve or become extinct.
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“You do not have the knowledge to question any of God`s plans, so don`t.”
If god has a plane then atheists must be part of it and therefore you questioning us is questioning god. I’m using your own logic against you and you can’t argue with me on that point without contradicting yourself! See why we always win? Logic, wisdom and knowledge are powerful weapons!
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“Does God ask you to have unprotected sex so that you can get AIDS?” and “Does God ask of us to start religious wars and futher spread diseases?”
Well according to the Old Testament and the Christian right, yes he dose!
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“…this dont seem to me like things God wants for us, rather things that Satin loves.”
From what I can gather from the bible Satin (a mythical figure) wanted to give us intelligence and reasoning, he tried to save Job and Christ. So Satin loves trying to save humanity form blind ignorance and persecution by a sadistic god.
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“God wants the best for us, but we have responsibilities to, the call it choices, and He has given us all the choices that the world has to offer.”
But if we don’t make the ones he likes then we will burn in hell for all eternity!
Very compassionate of him. “Love me or else!!!” that’s a great god you’ve got there!
Once again I can use your own warped logic against you. Feel free to do the same to me. I don’t mind, I posses the reasoning to come out on top every time.
I understand the name “Religious monster” now.
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“In the beginning GOD created the Heavens and the Earth….” etc, etc
Where did God come from?
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@Religious monster. There are not two types of reasoning. There’s only reasoning. Where it takes us is where it takes us. Those who deny reason to believe in a deity, are not adopting some higher form of reasoning, just abandoning all reason.
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Is the “Big Bang” any better? How could everything arise from nothing?
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So you prefer that god created everything, having first appeared from nothing himself? This still gives everything arising from nothing, but just with a intermediary step that can only be described as unknown.
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@ Religious monster
“Does God give you a sigarette and then ask you to go and take a smoke every day to get Cancer? ”
> I’ve *had* to work where ‘people of faith’ chain-smoked like chimneys even around pregnant women (includes the minimum wage workers, RM, who, FWIW are economically penalized for job-hopping to avoid things like self-righteous, cancer-causing customers or coworkers), young children, and clearly sick people. I’ve asked (very politely, usually) the ‘people of faith’ in my group not to light up when I have to be with them in small spaces. (Thank heavens for the laws against smoking in restaurants, theaters and planes!) Some respond to my request kindly and refrained. Others believe their right to smoke trumps my right to breathe. Guess who gets ‘cursed’ with chronic respiratory ailments, RM? The sun shines on the good and evil alike; lung cancer strikes down the willful smoker and his asthmatic grandchild and the vegetarian bicycle commuter and the sub-minimum wage pregnant waitress alike.
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Does God ask you to have unprotected sex so that you can get AIDS?
> No, but far too many Churchianity ‘authorities” do, without any regard to real-world circumstances. Some very interesting, current documents from the Vatican on this: a woman must ‘resist to the death’ an AIDS-infected husband who wishes to wear a condom during relations. Irony much?
> Sadly, many of the victims of AIDs are scripturally-beaten-down, third-world women who are at the mercy of insane patriarchal militants who delight in torturing and killing not only ‘the enemy’ but *their own people*. Now go rebuke the SBM pulpit-pounders about their collusion with this abomination and don’t come back spouting advice until you get your own house in order.
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Does God ask you to drink as much alcohol as you can before having a baby?
> No he does not. And we can thank *science* for bringing the dangers of Fetal Alcohol Syndrome to people’s attention, and the godless public school system for incorporating demonic lies about how biology works in its science classrooms. We can also thank godless, liberal politicians who pass nanny-state laws to educate potential mothers, provide some small measure of care for severely-damaged offspring, or punish willful perps, as the case may be.
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Does God ask of us to start religious wars and futher spread diseases?
> Well, yes he does, if you read the *entire* Word and take it literally.
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A lot of questions Neal, this dont seem to me like things God wants for us, rather things that Satin loves.
> I never get over Christians who fear ‘SatIn’. Sequins, I can see. Feather boas, too; they’re creepy. Gold lame can be pretty scary, paired with Maybelline lashes. But *satin*?
> Ohhhhh…did you mean SatAn? That ain’t no typo, RM; that’s jurt ignernce.
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God wants the best for us, but we have responsibilities to, the call it choices, and He has given us all the choices that the world has to offer.
> This argument only works when his most zealous followers aren’t hell-bent-for-leather on taking away free will from their fellow citizens. A choice only exists if there *are* options to choose from, RM. Based on the ravings I’ve heard and read from fundy evangelicals, “No one has a *right* to worship any god but Jesus!” And worshipping him is not enough: it must be in the *right* denomination, *right* sect, and *right* mega church to count. This delusion is not even remotely biblical, and shoes its adherents as thinking they know better than the deity they’re trying to foist on everyone else. Pride goeth before a fall, RM, even if one’s pride is riding on an inflated sense of religious entitlement.
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@ Wench Nikkiee
I never said that smoking is the only cause of Cancer. I said that God can
not be held responsible for Cancer from sigarettes, because he did not
encourage you to smoke.
“Does God ask you to have unprotected sex so that you can get AIDS?”
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“Are aware how many nutter religious missionaries are preaching against the use of condoms in AIDS rife areas, like West Africa, right now even as I type? ”
You are aware that not all missionaries go out to praise the same God!
I`m not saying that God said that you may not have unprotected sex, what I am saying is that unprotected sex increases the change of getting AIDS so God can not be held responsible for our stupidity. Futher His rules did mention that sex is ment for marriage, so if people stop “fucking” around then the percentage of AIDS spreading would dramatically decrease.
“Does God ask you to drink as much alcohol as you can before having a baby?”
What on earth is that supposed to mean??
Did you even read what Neal said.
Let me help you
“children born with birth defects” – another thing that God should not alwasy be held responsible for.
“Well I’ve heard George Bush said God told him to start the war with Iraq. Bush didn’t say whether God mentioned preading disease.
NOT ALL PEOPLE THAT CLAIM TO BE CHRISTIANS WILL GO TO HEAVEN. If you think that God will praise Bush for starting a unnecessary war and taking all the innocent lifes than “your statement marks you as a completely idiot!!” Please read the bible where judgement day is explained.
@Neal
“To assume that there exists a higher sense, a system of reason beyond human reason is just plain gargage”
If it is easy enough to believe that the universe was only there, then how can it be difficult to believe that the creater(God) of it all was just there from the beginning.
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Hey religious monster @”Does God ask you” Questions. No God does not “ask” us anything. He already got his rocks off asking his followers to murder their sons and asking his followers to commit “suicide by crucifiction” and asking his followers to do impossible things or whole cities die, or asking his followers to not turn around or they will be turned into salt etc etc etc etc these are the type of things this god character likes to ask to torture his little piggies. What a caring loving fatherly type of guy. I actually think you have your religion all mixed up. The story probably goes more like Lucifer saw the way his father would get wasted and kill or torture humans, Lucifer would see the deformation in the lower part of Gods robes when he would commit genocide and he said dad no more! He spoke out against God and you know how that can piss that control freak off. He said how dare you speak your mind and tell me how you feel. Now you can go down to Hell(which isn’t such a bad place) and run things your way letting the humans do what they want and enjoy themselves. God knew that certain humans ( a majority) love pain suffering ignorance, and seeing other people pay for their crimes and would always follow him. See Religious monster doesn’t that sound a little more realistic? Damn I am laughing too hard to continue but religious monster is the right term for God heh?
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@Pluto
“How can you have a personal relationship with a dead guy you’ve never met?”
Is there a rule that one can not have a relationship with one you can`t see. And I don`t consider my God to be dead.
“Atheists don’t try to convert you ”
That`s a lie, because my best friend is a atheist and he always try to per sway me not to believe in God.
“If god has a plane then atheists must be part of it and therefore you questioning us is questioning god.”
God has a plan with all, I`m sure his plan does include people going to Hell. People going to hell will include non believers. Maybe part of God`s plan is for me questioning you, giving you a change, so that on judgement day you won`t be able to say that nobody cared about you.
“God wants the best for us, but we have responsibilities to, the call it choices, and He has given us all the choices that the world has to offer.”
But if we don’t make the ones he likes then we will burn in hell for all eternity!
Very compassionate of him. “Love me or else!!!
The world has rules to, but you still have the choice. If you kill someone you might end up in jail for life. How can you expect to live against God`s rules and then have no punishment for your wrongdoing.
Last,”Does God ask you to have unprotected sex so that you can get AIDS?” and “Does God ask of us to start religious wars and futher spread diseases?”
Well according to the Old Testament and the Christian right, yes he dose!
The Old Testament also tells me that I may not eat pig`s meat, that doesn`t mean that the rule still counts. You should know that Jesus did bring new rules so please read the New Testament, before you tell me that the Old Testament tells us that gay people should be stoned to death.
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@Religious monster- Were my counter argument? Was I not worth it? Or are you incapable of arguing with me? Come on, I’m always ready.
I saw your reply to 2 other posters. Lets have a look shell we?
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““Does God ask you to have unprotected sex so that you can get AIDS?”
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“Are aware how many nutter religious missionaries are preaching against the use of condoms in AIDS rife areas, like West Africa, right now even as I type? ”
You are aware that not all missionaries go out to praise the same God!”
Yes they do! They hold the bible in their hand, who else are they praying to?
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“I`m not saying that God said that you may not have unprotected sex,”
But his representatives on earth do!
“what I am saying is that unprotected sex increases the change of getting AIDS so God can not be held responsible for our stupidity.”
But you say he made us right? If a building contactor makes builds a building that collapses due to his incompetence then he is help responsible. If are car manufacturer makes a car with a serious design flaw that causes death then they are held accountable. If a nuclear power plant leaks due to incompetence then the company that runs the plant is held accountable. So how come god can ignore the rules?
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“NOT ALL PEOPLE THAT CLAIM TO BE CHRISTIANS WILL GO TO HEAVEN.”
That would apply to you too then?
“If you think that God will praise Bush for starting a unnecessary war and taking all the innocent lifes than “your statement marks you as a completely idiot!!” Please read the bible where judgement day is explained.”
He praised Moses for acts of genocide? Why not Bush or Hitler.
Once again you are using parts of a self contradictor book to prove a point! Look further up the thread to see why the “truth” of the bible is flawed. There are posts from me and several others pocking massive holes in it.
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“If it is easy enough to believe that the universe was only there, then how can it be difficult to believe that the creater(God) of it all was just there from the beginning.”
Almost a valid point. Yes we can’t discredit a creator because we can’t go back in time and see what happened, you’re very right there. We can only use available evidence to deduce what happened. Wile it’s true that there is no evidence the universe was started by an intelligence, there is also no proof that it wasn’t. However your claims that God was there from the beginning still fails to answer where god came from. Saying it makes no sense that the universe just appeared applies infinitely more to the idea of god. See, as the universe developed it became more complex, yet god just existed already more complex than anything else. How does that work?
So there could very well be an entity that started everything off, but in no way would it be the god depicted it the bible (we’ve already shown why further up the thread).
I look forward to you counted argument.
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Remember, we claim noting but that we are looking for the truth using logic and reasoning, you claim to have it in defiance of logic and reasoning.
I close with a few nice quotes. It’s one I’ve used before but is a good one.
“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”- Epicurus
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“We must question the story logic of having an all-knowing all-powerful God, who creates faulty Humans, and then blames them for his own mistakes” – Gene Roddenberry
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“With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.” – Steven Weinberg
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“Religion has actually convinced people that there’s an invisible man — living in the sky — who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do.. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever ’til the end of time! ..But He loves you.” – George Carlin
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“The church says the earth is flat, but I know that it is round, for I have seen the shadow on the moon, and I have more faith in a shadow than in the church” – Ferdinand Magellan
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And final, because this is one of my favourites “When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord doesn’t work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me.”- Emo Philips
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@Religious monster – Sorry for the accusation that you were not prepared to answer me. The new moderation means I didn’t see your reply. I don’t want to come across as unfair. However lets have a good look at your reply shell we?
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“Is there a rule that one can not have a relationship with one you can`t see.”
No but when grown ups still have imaginary friends they normally put them in some sort of institution.
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!“Atheists don’t try to convert you ”
That`s a lie, because my best friend is a atheist and he always try to per sway me not to believe in God.”
I don’t know your friend or the arguments you have with him. However form my own experience I have all ways asked people who have an idea, which seems stupid to me, to explain it. Is this what you friend does per chance?
As I said to you before “You may see this as an attack, I say if you have an opinion be prepared to back it up, if not you shouldn’t be allowed to have one.” You have yet to do that properly, but hey, you’re only Christian!
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““If god has a plane then atheists must be part of it and therefore you questioning us is questioning god.”
God has a plan with all, I`m sure his plan does include people going to Hell. People going to hell will include non believers. Maybe part of God`s plan is for me questioning you, giving you a change, so that on judgement day you won`t be able to say that nobody cared about you.”
Yes, yes, yes! Thank you!
2 points here:
1. “God has a plan with all, I`m sure his plan does include people going to Hell”- so your god planed for people to go to hell? So he knew he was going to get to cast people in to a pit of eternal torment right from the start? He wanted people to end up in hell? I can see why you worship him. Better to be an obedient slave then touched for ever at the hands of an omnipotent sadist!
2. Now for the big guns! Did you read my post carefully? You quoted me ““If god has a plane then atheists must be part of it and therefore you questioning us is questioning god.” But that little comment was in reply to this from you: “You do not have the knowledge to question any of God`s plans, so don`t.” but you just said: “I`m sure his plan does include people going to Hell”
So you’ve just contradicted an earlier statement. And would you look at that, in my last post I stated:
“. I’m using your own logic against you and you can’t argue with me on that point without contradicting yourself!”
And you just have! Hahahahahaha. How’s that for prophecy? You just invalidated you own opinion! I wish you could see the little dance I’m doing, I really do! You have made my day!
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Now let’s pick this one apart for you! You quoted me answering a quote from you namely:
““God wants the best for us, but we have responsibilities to, the call it choices, and He has given us all the choices that the world has to offer.”
But if we don’t make the ones he likes then we will burn in hell for all eternity!
Very compassionate of him. “Love me or else!!!”
To which you replied:
“The world has rules to, but you still have the choice. If you kill someone you might end up in jail for life. How can you expect to live against God`s rules and then have no punishment for your wrongdoing.”
Now you couldn’t have seen this one coming or you wouldn’t have left such a big opening.
The rules that put you in jail for killing some one or steeling something are called LAWS. They are their, whether they work all the time or not, to protect society and the individuals in it. The exact punishment is based on the circumstances.
When you inflict horrible punishments for not doing exactly as you say, regardless of circumstance, then you are a TYRANT!
You’ve just confirmed your god as a tyrant! Well done.
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Now for the last point you had to make.
Quoting you quoting me!
“Last, ”Does God ask you to have unprotected sex so that you can get AIDS?” and “Does God ask of us to start religious wars and futher spread diseases?”
Well according to the Old Testament and the Christian right, yes he dose!
The Old Testament also tells me that I may not eat pig`s meat, that doesn`t mean that the rule still counts. You should know that Jesus did bring new rules so please read the New Testament, before you tell me that the Old Testament tells us that gay people should be stoned to death.”
As I understand it… Jesus told people to obey the existing scripture still! Can you see what’s coming next?
Oh yes!
You have eaten pork. The scripture you insist to be the undeniable word of god, says that this is a sin. Where in the New Testament does it say it’s ok to eat it?
Oh dear oh dear! If you’re right then you are going to hell with us “non-believers”, so you best hope your wrong or an eternity of indescribable agony awaits you!
Oh wait, wait, what was that I said before? Oh yes: “Once again I can use your own warped logic against you. Feel free to do the same to me. I don’t mind, I posses the reasoning to come out on top every time.” That’s right; you’ve proved my right and your self wrong! Again!
Also on the subject: If god changes his mind about something (which would automatically contradict him being infallible) do the people already in hell for disobeying him get let out in light of the revised rules?
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Oh look at that? You’ve proved me right again and exposed the holes in you of beliefs. I’m so glad you answered me, I do love being right.
I would also like to point out, that as you have done when answering others, that you have failed to address all their points. Why is this?
I however have answered all your points. Not only contradicting what you have said but leading you to contradict your self.
I may not be right, but you have shown yourself to be wrong!
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@ Religious monster – ““children born with birth defects” – another thing that God should not alwasy be held responsible for.” Not always? You mean, in every single case of genetic disease or complication in pregnancy where the evil pregnant woman didn’t maliciously cause defects in her own child by heavy drinking, this merciful god of yours made an individual decision that that child somehow deserved to be born with some sort of birth defect? Even if by “not always” you mean very occasionally, does that not seem to you to be a few occasions too many? You know, I’ve always considered my lack of religion to be a benefit anyway, but it’s statements like that that really make me realise really how messed up some people’s world view is. At what point in your childhood brainwashing did you ever stop to wonder quite how you square an all-powerful and merciful deity micro-managing everything with all the problems you must be aware of in the world?
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@ Pluto – I can feel your glee in that second posting radiating through my monitor! You wouldn’t be feeling a little smug right now, would you?
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@ Jennyanydots- So smug you wouldn’t believe it. Nice that these guys are so predictable that you know they have to contradict themselves sooner or later. After all that’s the nature of the beast!
If your arguments are not based on logic; they can be destroyed with reason.
What would surprise me is if one actual said “actually, come to think about it, you have a good point there. I’m going to go think about my life for a bit now.” Or something along those lines.
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Maybe that’s what happens to all those ones who post a few times then disappear at the responses – they can’t quite bring themselves to admit it to the people who caused that epiphany but perhaps they are overwhelmed by the evidence and go evaluate it for a bit before coming back under a different name so no-one associates them with the original fundie once they’ve changed their minds.
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I am in looooooveeeeeeee!
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@Pluto
“I’m going to go think about my life for a bit now.” Or something along those lines.”
I already did that in the past and for sometime I was a atheist, but as you can see, things has changed.
Great use of Occam’s razor`s principle – “All other things being equal, the simplest solution is the best.” in your arguments.There is no way that I can convince you to be a Christian or to believe in God,because you did not have my experience,and as we both know, faith and logic defies one another.
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The atheist, since his own childish theories hold no merit of their own on which to stand, and since the absolute truth of the Supreme Lord cannot be challenged directly by any means, all too often mentions such bizarre things as “spaghetti monster,” “mermaids,” “sky faeries,” and a myriad of other ridiculous straw-man arguments that he manufactures in his fertile imagination. The straw-man argument is perhaps the most shameful and childish of all the logical fallacies, and among the very favorites of the atheist.
The fact is that the ungodly atheist is afraid to face the issue directly, and the issue is simply that God’s personal and intelligent plan for the highly structured, ordered, and variegated universe that we all experience every day makes much more sense as its ultimate origin than such silly, mythological concepts as “chance,” “randomness,” and “evolution theory.”
It is physically, logically, and mathematically impossible to derive life from nonliving chemicals, personality from some imaginary, impersonal system of “chance,” or any amount of greater intelligence from any amount of lesser intelligence. The conclusion is that all life comes from life, all personality comes from personality, and all relative intelligence comes from absolute intelligence.
There is not so much as one single example, in the experience of any scientist throughout all time, of one species being observed producing a member of another species. Conversely, every nanosecond, every millisecond, every instant, every moment, every second, every minute, every hour, every day, every week, every month, every year, every decade, every lifetime, every generation, every century, every millennium, every epoch, every aeon, every era, and every age, since time immemorial, and right down the line, to this very red-hot nanosecond, what we observe, each and every time, without fail, adjustment, or substitution, is that each respective species produces members of its very own, very same species. There is absolutely not so much as a single example, throughout the entire history of all time, of crossover from one species to any other species. There is none, none, none — none at all.
Since scientific method is based, first and foremost, upon observation, and the very lynchpin of “evolution theory,” (species crossover), has never been observed by anyone, ever, the only rational conclusion is that the theory is 100% unscientific.
Only the insane can neglect these hard facts and insist upon the foolish, illogical convolutions of “evolution theory” instead.
More information:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=BxYacGWRlMw
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I really thought, Purushadasa is a hoax. He can’t mean that, or can he?
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Kindly to, Purushadasa,
Not one scientist has ever observed species evolving? So, you haven’t actually ever read Darwin’s Origins of Species. You are aware that his conclusions were based upon the observation of the birds that inhabit the Galapagose Islands, right? There is hard data proving survival of the fittest and natural selection from these observations. Further, there have been many other experiments proving how a species evolves to an ecosystem. As for cross species evolution. I don’t think you have the slightest clue as to what evolution is. Enlighten me as to what you mean by cross species, becuase in no way does evolution indicate cross species relationships. Go read about evolution before you come here and make up terminology, and then use your made up terms to debunk evolution. It’d be like if I turned the trinity into some sort of penta, where god is divided into five beings, and then used that to fight christianity. You are absurd, go read a book, preferably reputable in its source.
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Purushadasa,
I’m sorry, did you just call Evolutionary Theory “mythology”??? Wow, what a glimpse into your mindset!
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Okay: Let me tell you this in simple terms. We (the scientific community) have seen (witnessed first-hand) speciation events (where one species “crosses over” into another species).
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Unfortunately, humans have short lives. If speciation events take species our size well over one million years to occur, then of course, we are not going to witness such an “event.” However, thinking of speciation as an “event” is wrong. Species grade from one form to another, sometimes slowly (gradual, so-called “Darwinian” evolution) and sometimes more quickly (punctuated change followed by a period of stasis). Modern cladistic methods of taxonomic classification consider a parent species extinct once a speciation has occurred. Thus you could call every species you see around you today a “transitional” form in that given environmental pressure it is in the process of grading into another form (another clade).
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That being said, the “events” witnessed by biologists occur in species with rapid generational turnover: bacteria. Quickly mutating varieties of bacteria have undergone tens of thousands of generations over the past decades and biologists have monitored the changes. Not only have new species emerged, but new genera and families have emerged from such lab analysis. However, even a simple understanding of genetics yields evidence for past speciation events and the inter-related nature of species within a genus, genera within a family and so on, not to mention qualitative morphological similarities in fossil species!
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So please, revise your statement and get back to us.
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FSM Bless,
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P.E.T.
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LOL so umm about this spaghetti monster, you’ve “tried” to prove to me that God doesnt exist. But can you prove that this ridiculous monster made of spaghetti of all things, An italian delicacy, could possibly be a creator. And pirates? Have you guys even read your history? Pirates are no more. You dont hear of them. Freakin retards.
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What, do you guys have nothing to say to me? cmon, of all things a SPAGHETTI MONSTER. i mean wtf. come up with something more believeable if u even wanna try to start some non-existent faith lol. idiots.
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@ Purushadasa – “all personality comes from personality,” – by the same logic, all personality traits must come from the same source, so this originating personality you want to convince us of must be incredibly schizophrenic, exhibiting all manner of unpleasant traits. Oh, wait a minute…
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@Purushadasa Dec 6th, 2007 at 11:09 pm
“Since scientific method is based, first and foremost, upon observation, and the very lynchpin of “evolution theory,” (species crossover), has never been observed by anyone, ever, the only rational conclusion is that the theory is 100% unscientific.
Only the insane can neglect these hard facts and insist upon the foolish, illogical convolutions of “evolution theory” instead.”
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More information:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=BxYacGWRlMw
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Are you serious Purushadasa? Lots of rhetoric in your post but nothing to back any of it up! You offer a Youtube video to back up yourself up? Your concept of putting for
Hehehehehe…..here try this some of this for scientific method the way it’s done!
The Human Genome (Francis Collins…not an atheist either :)
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http://www.talkreason.org/articles/Theistic.cfm
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Go on…..I dare you to read it….I promise that your eyes won’t spontaneously conbust if you read that page.
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Hehehehehe….check out the comments under Purushadasa’s Youtube vid….all made by….Purushadasa!
Reminds me of that song……”I’m a one man band”
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@Religious monster
“…as we both know, faith and logic defies one another.”
My point exactly!
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@Nick – zzzzzzzzzzzzz IO *snoring*
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@Religious monster
“…as we both know, faith and logic defies one another.”
My point exactly!
@ Religious monster
You were unable to counter argument me. Does this mean you concede defeat?
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@Nick- The whole point of a flying spaghetti monster is more plausible than god. If you bothered to read the site properly you would see that this religion has ‘Unintelligent Design’ to explain why the world is fucked up. Surly this makes more sense than an infallible being making an imperfect creation (thus making that being fallible).
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Also you’ve noted the lack of pirates in the modern world. If you look at the graph it shows that the increase in global warming is directly related to the decrees in pirates, which as you just noted is correct. So who’s the retard now?
I feel sorry of you, you poor idiot. Like so many others before you, you’ve made an arse of your self. If you had stayed quiet I would never have seen you original post and you wouldn’t have left your self open to this.
See I always have something to say. I am an atheist here me roar bitch!
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@ Purushadasa
If you read all my other post, including the ones earlier on this thread you will see I have no need for a ‘Straw Man’! I have used logic and reasoning against you.
Evolution is a theory supported by observable facts, that means my ‘childish’ theories hold infinitely more merit that your own. The ‘absolute truth’ of you imagined Supreme Being has been shot down by me and others with out the aid of the FSM, you clearly lack understanding of what you worship and the counter arguments
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“The fact is that the ungodly atheist is afraid to face the issue directly,…” I have faced your kind down directly many times and always prove victorious.
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“and the issue is simply that God’s personal and intelligent plan for the highly structured, ordered, and variegated universe that we all experience every day makes much more sense as its ultimate origin than such silly, mythological concepts as “chance,” “randomness,” and “evolution theory.””
So you have some evidence to back up what you are saying? Let’s hear it. As I stated above, evolution has a foundation and supporting evidence. What have you got?
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“It is physically, logically, and mathematically impossible to derive life from nonliving chemicals,”
Actually it is entirely possible. As low as the chance may be, it is still possible and only has to happen once! Evolution does the rest.
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“The conclusion is that all life comes from life, all personality comes from personality, and all relative intelligence comes from absolute intelligence.”
Without explaining where this intelligence comes from? If life is too complex not to have been designed then the same must hold true for an infinitely more complex designer. Basically if god is the cause of life, what is the cause of god?
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“There is not so much as one single example, in the experience of any scientist throughout all time, of one species being observed producing a member of another species.”
Look at the fossil record idiot! Real change takes millennia. Or to show you up from your over worded nonsense
“Conversely, every nanosecond, every millisecond, every instant, every moment, every second, every minute, every hour, every day, every week, every month, every year, every decade, every lifetime, every generation, every century, every millennium, every epoch, every aeon, every era, and every age, since time immemorial, and right down the line, to this very red-hot nanosecond, what we observe, each and every time, without fail, adjustment, or substitution, is that each respective species produces members of its very own, very same species. There is absolutely not so much as a single example, throughout the entire history of all time, of crossover from one species to any other species. There is none, none, none — none at all.”
Two words loser. Farm Animals! Oh yes my favourite example. Farm animal show so little in common with there genetic forbearers (i.e. their wild equivalent) as to be barely recognisable. A better example would be dog, who differ in appearance so much from the wolf ancestors, and even other breads of dog, that if you weren’t told they were dogs you’d never know!
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“Since scientific method is based, first and foremost, upon observation, and the very lynchpin of “evolution theory,” (species crossover), has never been observed by anyone, ever, the only rational conclusion is that the theory is 100% unscientific.”
Wrong again! We can observe the fossil record and the changes from one species to another through intimidate steps. The religious have often claimed there are gaps, but as more fossil are uncovered those gaps are filled in so we now have ‘chains’ of fossils from one form to another. All you’ve done here is exposed your ignorance. Maybe you should go look up the information your self from a reputable source. Then you might have a more convincing argument.
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Only the insane can neglect these hard facts and insist upon the foolish, illogical convolutions of “Intelligent Design” instead.
For more information, read a fucking book other than the bible.
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Nick,
The Flying Spaghetti Monster exists, he’s shown me in ways that someone of little faith such as yourself couldn’t possibly understand. All your god has done is throw the world in violence and misunderstanding, our FSM would never do that…FSM simply created the world as we know it, with all of its delectable pastas and sauces, and, if you really want him to, FSM will touch you with his vast noodly appendage and enlighten you, too!
And pirates, Nick, there are still pirates around, only their numbers are dwindling. FSM doesn’t like this since pirates are his one way of speaking to the world. If you read more about FSM you’ll see our scientific facts relating this drop in pirate population to the increase in global temperature over time.
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And one more thing Nick…REMEMBER: This Is Satire. Why is Christianity or any other religion more qualified to be taught in public schools than our belief that the universe was created by a Flying Spaghetti Monster with pirates as missionaries?
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RAmen,
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P.E.T.
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@Nick. The entire point is that FSM has exactly as much evidence for his existenece as an invisible space daddy who wants to party with your ghost. The only reason you believe in the space daddy/dead guy on a stick religion rather than this one is because someone planted the programming to believe in it before your critical faculties formed. If we would stop teaching children this stuff, wait for their minds to form, and then offer it to them when they were adults, wanna guess how many believing Xains, Jews, Muslims there would be? Answer, many, many fewer. That’s why fundamentalists are fighting so hard to get prayer, the ten commandments, religious instruction in public schools and limit everyone’s access to scientific theories about evolution, cosmology and everything else. They know they need to recruit before their recruits can think for themselves. They know they need to block rational thought , by threatening its practitioners with hellfire and damnation. (And, as I am learning, in many southern US locations with social oscracism, business boycotts, and curtailed civil liberties.)
It is interesting you ask for something more believable when our entire culture has been steeped in some of the most far-fetched, unbelievable bullshit from these other religions for centuries.
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1. No shit there are no more pirates. Thus the horrible things occurring right now!! The lack of pirate population is so OBVIOUSLY responsible for all kinds of the current downfalls being thrown onto the population. Search piracy and global warming. The statistics are incredible.
2. I do not need to “prove” anything to you. You cannot prove anything of your faith to me, so why should we prove it to you? FSMism is for believers, and should you choose not to believe, then so be it.
Nick, we are accepting of your faith. Please be accepting of ours.
May you be touched by His Noodly Appendage.
RAmen.
(Also, dear, I don’t believe calling people “idiots” and “freakin retards” is the correct way to spark scholarly debate. Being mean doesn’t get you most places. So, I guess, now you know.)
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I’ve been lurkingaround here for a while, so might as well start by debunking some fundies.
“LOL so umm about this spaghetti monster, you’ve “tried” to prove to me that God doesnt exist.”
>> He *does* exist, he’s the (Flying) Spaghetti Monster that you just mentioned. Seriously, get it right.
“But can you prove that this ridiculous monster made of spaghetti of all things, An italian delicacy, could possibly be a creator.”
>> Can *you* prove he’s an old man with a beard in the sky? Besides, spaghetti’s a lot tastier than old men.
“And pirates? Have you guys even read your history? Pirates are no more. You dont hear of them.”
>> Not entirely true, but anyway, we know that they’re not as abundant as they used to be. That why the Earth’s temperature has increased so much over the past few centuries; haven’t you seen the graph?
“Freakin retards.”
>> I daresay there may have been *some* mentally retarded pirates, but most had a very high intelligence, hence why they were so successful. And you’re telling *us* to read our history?
“What, do you guys have nothing to say to me?”
>>We do, we just can’t be on here all the time, so you have to wait a while. Most of us have lives, unlike you it seems.
“cmon, of all things a SPAGHETTI MONSTER. i mean wtf. come up with something more believeable if u even wanna try to start some non-existent faith lol. idiots.”
>> Non-existant faith? The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster is a real as any other, my dear Nick, and has been going of for several thousand years. And what’s wrong with the FSM? Less believable than some guy walking on water and coming back from the dead? Not much, in my opinion.
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Uh, Nick. You might want to check out this link.
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http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=1300344
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Nick, Pastafarianisms foundation is that science should be taught in a classroom, not theology. Science is based on aquiring knowledge through a systematic study of observable fact. FSM (Flying Spaghetti Monster) was created to show the Kansas school board how forcing intelligent design opens our schools up to any religious belief. They have no basis of denying Pastafarians beliefs over Christians except for thier own bias. Science strives to avoid bias by backing up all credible theories with observable, credible, substaniated, reviewed data. Now onto FSM himself
We have tried to prove to you that there is as much evidence for FSM creating the universe as there is for the Christian/Jewish/Muslim, Hindu, Egyptian, etc. God/Gods creating the universe and everything in it. Our “Lord” FSM asks that we worship him dressed in pirate garb. There is incredible statistical evidence (pure random chance brought by unrelated event…or is it?) that the number of pirates in the world directly effects the worlds average temperature. As a direct result, a tennant of pastafarianism has a basis in observable data. FSM is angry because there are fewer pirates. Thus he is increasing the global temperature and threatening the cities along the coast throughout the world unless pirates return to their pre 1800 levels.
I challenge you to read the Old and New Testament of the bible and ask yourself what basis I have in believing these words. What evidence (not heresay) is there that Jesus was the son of God? Why do I believe my God is the real God and that the Gods of the Hindus are just figments of their imagination? Why do Hindus believe the same of me?
For me, the answer was, “My parents told me so.” That answer was not enough for me and so I am in limbo. It wasn’t until I actually began to question my faith that I actually read the bible. I finally settled on the fact that I don’t know how the universe began. Evidence tells us that it began with an explosion, but where that matter/energy came from, we cannot explain and have no observable evidence to support anything before that time billions of years ago.
As a final thought, calling people morons and idiots is not the way to win an argument. I shall follow the christian morals you seem to have forgotten and treat people the way I would like to be treated. Nor is lambasting a community for not responding to your post on an internet forum in 11 minutes a valid argument.
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God is dead, all hail FSM
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@Nick.
with all due respect, go fuck yourself.
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We are not trying to prove that god doesn not exist, we are merely trying to make a point that Intelligent design should not be taught as science, when there is absololutely NO scientific evidence of it happening. And pirates do exist, you hear about them all the time. Please read about the mallacca strait. Recently, a Japanese ship full of was taken hostage off the coast of Somalia by pirates, and it and it’s crew were only released when a U.S guided missile carrier intervened.
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what exacty is there that is ubelievable with a flying spaghetti monster? and who are you to think the faith is non-existent?
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Dear Nick
Firstly please refer to the Pastarfarian cause to global warming, the rapid decline in the pirate population angering the spaghdetiy. Then again there are about 9 million hits for pirates when searched on google so to say you never hear of them just means you aren’t looking hard enough. Catholics believe that when they eat bread and wine blessed by a priest (who has to have testicles) it becomes the body and blood of a fatherless man. Correct me if I’m wrong but believing that to be true is slightly more implausible than say me eating pasta and thinking its pasta a food created by the creator.
Again when I look at how screwed up this world is I don’t think it must have been made by a perfect creator who loves human beings more than any other creature in the universe, I think hmm if there was a creator he must have been a bit stupid and drunk.
As for definite proof there is as much proof for the FSM as there is for any other god. This is faith. Remember it is religion not science at the end of the day.
Could you perhaps explain to me how any god whether it be Odin, Shiva or Yahweh made the universe and then explain what made them?
Pasta be upon you.
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Nick. Man I really wish I was more eloquent, or had a doctorate or a knighthood or something to lend some additional credence to the arguements put forth here. But I’m sure it wouldn’t matter, because no matter what people say you will still have your beliefs. That of course being the difference between blind faith and logic. With logic a person admits that they can be proven wrong whereas faith doesn’t allow you the luxury of doubt or change.
However, if you wish to disprove that the FSM exists, please do something better than calling it ridiculous. Prove that yours is the truth and that all others are wrong without a cyclical arguement. Come up with a single test, question, or statement to prove my deity doesn’t exist that cannot also be used against your deity, whomever it may be.
One chance or walk away in shame, fair?
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@Nick,
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What Nick, don’t you have anything to say to us? c’mon…
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I have a feeling we made nick cry! We should me ashamed of our selves.
But for some reason, I’m not?
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“It is physically, logically, and mathematically impossible to derive life from nonliving chemicals”
Wrong.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article2241753.ece
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@ Religious monster
You were unable to counter argument me. Does this mean you concede defeat?
@ Pluto
If I feel defeated,it would mean that I would have to stop trying to convince people in my believe as you are trying to convince people in yours. Thus I dont feel defeated, as I already told you before. I have a personal relationship with God, as stupid as this might sound to you.
For the countering of arguments. There is no way of given a argument without you having a counter argument, even if my argument is vallid.
The following statements may or may not be vallid so please tell me what you think about it….
1.Accourding to facts +/-90% of the world believes in a God.
2.The ammount of intelligent people in this 90% exceeds the ammount in the 10% not believing in a God. This meaning that a large ammount of people having great knowledge of science still believes in a God.
3.A counter argument is that all humans have memes that gives them a desire in some higher power.
4.Why whould the sience in our DNA that we believe in give us a desire for some Devine power(a God)? This is not necessary for survival, as you being a atheist would know. My logic tells me that the creater of humans, even if it is evolution wanted us to believe that there is a higher power.
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@ Religious monster
You were unable to counter argument me. Does this mean you concede defeat?
@ Pluto
If I feel defeated,it would mean that I would have to stop trying to convince people in my believe as you are trying to convince people in yours. Thus I dont feel defeated, as I already told you before. I have a personal relationship with God, as stupid as this might sound to you.
For the countering of arguments. There is no way of given a argument without you having a counter argument, even if my argument is vallid.
The following statements may or may not be vallid so please tell me what you think about it.
1.Accourding to facts +/-90% of the world believes in a God.
2.The ammount of intelligent people in this 90% exceeds the ammount in the 10% not believing in a God. This meaning that a large ammount of people having great knowledge of science still believes in a God.
3.A counter argument is that all humans have memes that gives them a desire in some higher power.
4.Why whould the sience in our DNA that we believe in give us a desire for some Devine power(a God)? This is not necessary for survival, as you being a atheist would know. My logic tells me that the creater of humans, even if it is evolution wanted us to believe that there is a higher power.
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@ Religious monster
“For the countering of arguments. There is no way of given a argument without you having a counter argument, even if my argument is vallid.”
Err… so do you have a valid argument then? Because the ones you used before led you to contradict your self. You where doing most of my arguing for me, I just had to point it out.
As for: “If I feel defeated,it would mean that I would have to stop trying to convince people in my believe as you are trying to convince people in yours.”
I’m not the one making ridicules claims and falling over my own argument. But thanks for coming back and displaying your faulty logic. It never ceases to amuse me how silly you can be.
As to your states, where did you make these up from?
Most of the intellectual elite dismiss the bible. See monster I’m not dismissing god, because I can’t. But I can dismiss the god that is portrayed by your faith. Which in fact I have done with great success so far.
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I’ve shown what’s written in your holy book to be false and contradictory.
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I’ve shown your god to be a sadistic egomaniac.
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I’ve led you to contradict your self over and over again.
Interesting that you are so stuck in you delusion that you are unable to see what is in front of you.
But keep trying to argue with me by all means, you might actually come up with a valid point! I can but hope right?
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As I’m sure I’ve said before; As I’ve gone through life and learnt new things my opinion of the world and how it works has changed. You seem to have learnt nothing.
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Oh and merry Xmas to you. Hope you have a good holiday regardless of are disagreements.
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OK, I’m going to leave most of that for Pluto to answer, as it was addressed to him, but just cannot let pass “evolution wanted us to believe”. Evolution does not have an aim, an antipated end, any desires, or any sentience. It is a process and you assigning conscious thought to it is akin to suggesting that the tarmac on a road not only know which town is at either end, but also the best place to go for a drink when it gets there.
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@ religious monster: 1.Accourding to facts +/-90% of the world believes in a God.
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So? At one time 90% of people (or more) believed the earth was flat and the sun revolved around the earth. Simply having people believing in something doesn’t make it true!
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There are gaps in your logic so large I could fly a boeing through them! Come one, try some real logic ok?
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Bugger. It was only when it came up on the board that I re-read the spelling errors. It makes a little more sense if you replace antipated with anticipated. Sorry about that.
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