Sports

[Uther]

I guess you don't watch Rugby and have certainly not read or heard any expert analysis? Since that incident? Including from more highly rated refs than that jerk.

What he decided is NOT in the rules. The rules ARE open to interpretation to some extent.. its an art not a science... HE was outside any consensus of what was appropriate.

Take my word for it... the ref was a dope.. and altered the course of the tournament with a WRONG decision.

Refs make WRONG decisions all the time.. comes with the game.... we moan a little and get on with it.. in this case it has far more serious consequence than usually. On the tournament... 4 years of prep.. millions of dollars spent.. etc.

In addition to stuffing up the tournament.. that single game was a shit game.. yet promised to be the highlight of the tournament, second only to the final...

Capacity 60,000 crowd bought tickets for $100's each.. $700 seems to have been a typical price (That is what I was considering)....Those 60,000 are LIVID ...... a 5 second brain fart by a pedantic and biased ref should not have that sort of effect. The "Rules" do not support that in letter, nor in spirit.

THA

[daftbeaker]

I guess you don't watch Rugby

Nope, I just come on here and post about it for fun, I never actually pay any attention to the games

Take my word for it

Um, no thanks. Given that you're an ardent Wales supporter I'd say you've got more than a little bias in your judgement here. I'll stick with the referee chosen to oficiate at a World Cup semi final and the IRB rulings.

Just for the record, I wanted France to lose before you think I'm anti-Welsh

[Uther]

I don't want to go on... and yes it sounds like sore loser.. Welsh saying this stuff but... it is "experts" ...ex players, ex refs, ex coaches .. all respected and considered to KNOW what they are talking about...from a range of rugby playing nations.. all say the same.. and they were already saying even at half time.

Sounds like set up for a joke but my SKY coverage had: a NZ ex AB, a SA coach, and an ex Pommie player and an ex Ozzie player..... all were saying the decision was WRONG.. at half time and even more convinced once they saw the game played out. And I watched coverage the day after and read online and saw no-one who did not think the ref was wrong.. very few of the commentators were Welsh.. some were as low as Australian.

(Some opposing opinion in French papers.. but I wasn't counting them.. they are French... and they only won because of it))

[black bart]

Uther is absolutely right. I believe Wales would have crushed France with all 15 men on the pitch. But we can't do anything about it now and I console myself with the fact that Wales wouldn't have beaten The All Blacks and more to the point the All Blacks will murder France.

My mind goes back to the argument I had with that French bitch while on holiday...I wish I'd forgotten my British gentleman veneer and slapped her one. (although I would have been torn limb from limb by her enormous sons).

[daftbeaker]

I don't want to go on... and yes it sounds like sore loser.. Welsh saying this stuff but... it is "experts" ...ex players, ex refs, ex coaches .. all respected and considered to KNOW what they are talking about...from a range of rugby playing nations.. all say the same.. and they were already saying even at half time.

Sounds like set up for a joke but my SKY coverage had: a NZ ex AB, a SA coach, and an ex Pommie player and an ex Ozzie player..... all were saying the decision was WRONG.. at half time and even more convinced once they saw the game played out. And I watched coverage the day after and read online and saw no-one who did not think the ref was wrong.. very few of the commentators were Welsh.. some were as low as Australian.

(Some opposing opinion in French papers.. but I wasn't counting them.. they are French... and they only won because of it))

I think you're still confusing what should have happened with what the referee was allowed to do. Yes, in the spirit of the game Warburton probably didn't intend any injury and should have been let off with a sin bin. However, the rules and directives clearly state that the tackle he made mandated a red cad.

Again, if you don't like the rules, get the rules changed. The referee played to the rules and, as far as I saw, tried to keep play going the entire match. Look at it from the referee's point of view, they've been given clear rules about how to deal with lifting tackles. Either they deal with it the way they've been told to and they get shouted at by fans or they don't deal with it the way they've been told to and they never referee a World Cup final because the bosses shout at them.

[Uther]

You are being silly.

All sports require some interpretation/arbitration of the rules by referees. You get good refs and bad refs, At this level you expect the very best refs. Not pedantic bastards. Refs are incouraged to let the game "flow" rather than blow their toy whistles. The rules of Rugby specifically state the need to "play an advantage" rather than blow the whistle for any slight rule infraction. No set of rules can be absolute... and if attempted... would result in a farce and not a game of rugby.

This jerk was wrong.. in his interpretation. There is nothing wrong with the rules covering the incident.. just the guy administering them. The LAST thing Rugby needs is any MORE god damned rules.

BTW I don't know what you are reading.. but the tackle in question did NOT fit the description of a "Spear tackle" because it wasn't. It was not a particularly dangerous tackle and all agree the evidence in no way indicated any malicious intent on the part of Warburton.That was part of what the idiot ref got wrong? If the ref did regard it as "dangerous" in some way then PERHAPS a yellow card.. but even that would IMO have been too harsh a penalty. It is a WC semi final and that DOES make a difference a referee would have to be sure of a very serious infringement before flopping out his little red card. Have you even seen footage of it? Have you sen footage of many similar 9or "worse") tackles in top level rugby games? Or is this just an exercise in intellectual masturbation for you?

[PKMKII]

I will preface this post by saying that I don't know much about rugby, rarely watch it, didn't see the tackle in question, and the only RWC game I've watched this tournament was a bit of NZ vs. Canada. So take it with a grain of salt.

However, there's a similar sort of situation and controversy with rugby's kissing cousin, American football. What are called "brutal hits," tackling while leading with the helmet into the opposing player's helmet, carry not just a penalty and free yards for the offense, but get you fined tens of thousands of dollars by the NFL. Now, a lot of people complain about it for the same reasons Uther is complaining about: "This is a rough game! You're hamstringing the defense and stopping them from giving their all!"

But the reason they're harsh on it, goes beyond just being an illegal move, or being sticklers about the rules. They're trying to minimize the chances of the worst case scenario, a player laying on the field unmoving, paralyzed for life. And not just for protecting offensive players, but the league itself, from calls from the media that the game has gotten too violent, that their needs to be investigations, reforms, oversight, etc. They need to protect the image of the game.

I suspect there's a similar motivation with the spear tackle rule. I could easily see how that kind of tackle would increase the chances of the player landing on his neck. So they're being unfairly tough on the defender because they want to send a message to other players, that risky tackles have a zero tolerance policy to protect the image and integrity of the larger game.

[Uther]

IT WAS NOT A SPEAR TACKLE.
NOBODY was driven head/shoulder into the ground. The guy landed flat on his back.




It was a "normal" tackle you see in most rugby games

THE REF GOT IT WRONG.


This was serious because he compounded his mistake by dishing out a penalty that stuffed up the game and the entire RWC

[Uther]

There are any number of reports have voiced similar assessments to mine...

Just a sample.......

Rugby World Cup 2011: Mike Phillips brands Sam Warburton's red card "wrong decision completely" as Wales dream turns sour
Read more: http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/sport-fro ... z1bIBn5ioX
(A bit biased based on inerviews with Welsh Players)


Rugby World Cup 2011: Francois Pienaar rages over Sam Warburton red card
By Mirror.co.uk 15/10/2011
Read more: http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/rugby/rug ... z1bIDyP5fC
( South African - not noted for bias towards Wales)

There have been many many scathing criticisms voiced in print and TV media.. by acknowledged experts and commentators... from the various Rugby playing nations.

The damned Ref got it wrong and stuffed up a tournament 4 years in the planning.

[gronank]

[quote=the first link]Only a fortnight ago ref's boss Paddy O'Brien instructed his officials to take a firmer stance on the practise.
[/quote]
So everybody is upset with the referee because he did exactly what he was told to do?
[quote=second link]"It is dangerous, but this is a World Cup semi-final with all the world watching. You have all the technology at your disposal, why not go to the video referee or ask your touch judge?"
[/quote]
I cannot claim I know anything at all about sports, but isn't usually so in other sports that the higher up in the brackets you go the firmer the rules are enforced? Not because people like the interuptions but because there are more at stake?

[black bart]

We had a little bit of revenge last night. Arsenal defeated Marseille 1-0 and the scorer was Aaron Ramsey a Welsh International. Petty I know but it makes me feel better as I'm eating my croissants.

[Uther]

I'd like to boycott all things French over this.. but I've been doing that ever since French Secret Service blew up and Sank the "Rainbow warrior" in Auckland harbour. (1 crewman killed)
I am considering never using their "Letters"

[daftbeaker]

IT WAS NOT A SPEAR TACKLE.
NOBODY was driven head/shoulder into the ground. The guy landed flat on his back.

Yep, I made a mistake about that, he wasn't speared. Clerc was lifted up past the horizontal and dropped though which is still a red card offence according to the rules.

This isn't intellectual masturbation, I'm genuinely making the point that I think the ref made the correct decision according to the rules. No, I don't think Warburton meant to injure Clerc and he didn't really deserve a red card but that is what the rules are and what the referees were told to give. I think you're blaming the wrong people, rather than attacking the referee for doing what he's been told to do complain about the people making the rules that don't give referees the leeway you want.

[Uther]

From today's NZ Herald.....
(By Peter Bills )

Best rugby joke
A New Zealander went to a fancy dress shop to get a Dracula costume for Hallowe'en. The girl behind the counter gave him an English rugby kit. He said to the girl: "Sorry, love, you must have misheard me. I said I wanted to look like a Count!"

Best anthem
Wales.

NEVER in doubt.. nor best Flag, nor best crowd singing

[black bart]

From today's NZ Herald.....
(By Peter Bills )

Best rugby joke
A New Zealander went to a fancy dress shop to get a Dracula costume for Hallowe'en. The girl behind the counter gave him an English rugby kit. He said to the girl: "Sorry, love, you must have misheard me. I said I wanted to look like a Count!"

Best anthem
Wales.

NEVER in doubt.. nor best Flag, nor best crowd singing