Pope John Paul the first was murdered by the Mafia

[JimGardner1973]

Pope John Paul the first was murdered by the Mafia and covered up by the Vatican - and, what's more, in David Yallop's book 'In God's Name', it is proven, down to the Pontifical bank account numbers used to launder drug money and pay off the assassins, both literal and implied.

'In God's Name' is deftly followed up by 'The Power and the Glory: Inside the dark heart of Pope John Paul II Vatican' - a blood boiling tome of inside information about Karol Wojtyla's innermost thoughts on issues ranging from protection of child rapist priests to the excommunication of the medical staff who aborted the foetus living inside a 9 year old rape victim.

Get your chuckle muscles flexed and your righteous indignation bolstered by reading, as I did, 'The power and the glory' back to back with the ubiquitous 'god is not great: how religion poisons everything' by Christopher Hitchens. The two complement each other so well, I was almost poised to suggest a yellow brick road Pink Floyd analogy.

My first post - not counting the "Hello" thread.

Peas on Earth!

[MPTrooper]

And JFK was killed by the dude in the grassy area...

What's your point?

[Detective TurtleHolmes]

Don't mind him, he's a little grumpy, well, most of the time. He's also a Catholic.

I think that was rather interesting. I haven't heard hide nor hair of this, so it seem that the Vatican did it's job. I was wondering, do you know the name of the assassin, so I can research him/her a bit more?

[pieces o'nine]

When JPI died, my fundamentalist boss and coworker were lying in wait at the office door. As soon as I arrived they practically jumped me in glee, "Your Pope is dead!" They seemed disappointed that I was saddened, but not laid low by the news.

The conspiracy theories I've heard include that JPI was a compromise candidate who was considered controllable. Instead, the story goes, he was sympathetic to reversing Church opinions against married priests and female priests on the one hand, and birth control on the other. For these two reasons alone, he had to go. From what I've studied of ingrained Church politics and situational ethics, I would not be surprised. At the same time, I've never been able to get worked up over it. If you're going to go down the conspiracy theory route, then you're probably susceptible to the prophecy route, and then you've got Saint (Saint!) Malachy's predictions that the problem will correct itself soon enough... (smile)

[black bart]

The writing was on the wall for him way back:

[thelastpirate]

Pope John Paul the first was murdered by the Mafia

An interesting theory, certainly.

[JimGardner1973]

Don't mind him, he's a little grumpy, well, most of the time. He's also a Catholic.

I think that was rather interesting. I haven't heard hide nor hair of this, so it seem that the Vatican did it's job. I was wondering, do you know the name of the assassin, so I can research him/her a bit more?

Without wanting to sound redundant, you really have to read the book to answer that, since there are a number of possibilities. What is certain, from the evidence, is that the Vatican version of events surrounding the discovery of the pope's body and the eye witness account given to the author by the nun who tended to Albino Luciani on a daily basis throughout most of his life, including being the first person to find his contorted body, differ so greatly that it is not only possible but highly probably one or more of the priests who did the covering up were expecting his assassination, the exact nature of how it was to be done and knew exactly, therefore, which bits of evidence to remove from the scene to cover it up.

For example, the roll of papers the pope was holding in his hand, which detailed his wishes to remove Bishop Paul Marcinkus from his position as 'god's banker' and the Vatican bank - since Marcinkus was wanted for questioning by the FBI in connection with their investigation of Michele Sindona and Roberto Calvi - Mafia money launderers who used the Vatican seal of approval to artificially inflate the value of Vatican owned banks and businesses around the world (some of which produced contraceptives).

The draft decree in the 33 day pope's hand was removed and destroyed. Marcinkus was promoted by John Paul II.

Then there's the circumstances of his death. Official Vatican records show he died of a heart attack - but no post-mortem was carried out because the Vatican argued it was against canon law. Since a post-mortem is the only way to establish the cause of death the pope's own doctor refused to sign the death certificate on the grounds of it being illegal under Italian law and against his own evidence from a medical exam of two weeks previous to his death, which the pope's long time friend and physician personally carried out, which showed the mountain climbing, non-drinking, non-smoking man of truth was as fit as a fiddle.

De-bunkers of Yallop's original 1986 version of the book are challenged head-on in the 2007 re-issue on this specific issue and any call and response replies to these allegations should be viewed in the light of the fact that all of the sources quoted in the various Vatican attempts to discredit Yallop, have publicly distanced themselves from the words attributed to them by the Vatican damage limitation machine.

Pope John Paul the first's own doctor's concerns were irrelevant not 14 hours after his body being discovered, since the Vatican then proceeded to break yet more Italian laws by embalming his body to ensure any trace of poisons were flushed through his system. It is illegal under Italian law to embalm within 48 hours of death.

The death of the previous pope was accompanied by a four page document listing exactly what had killed him and when. The death of his successor, John Paul the first, was described by the Vatican in one sentence which dealt mostly with the mystery of God's way.

The third world bishops who voted Albino Luciani into office wanted nothing short of a reversal in some of the most ardently defended Catholic church policies on artificial contraception and birth control. Albino Luciani agreed with them. Not one of his proposed changes were brought into being by his successor, Karol Wojtyla, the man currently being fast-tracked to saint-hood for flatly refusing to confront any of the issues his predecessor devised draft solutions for within 33 days of being elected.

[JimGardner1973]

And JFK was killed by the dude in the grassy area...

What's your point?

My point is that JFK's death was as it is commonly accepted. Albino Luciani's is not. When a theory is confronted with evidence it is no longer a theory.

As a consequence of the actions of a few self-important Italian men in silly hats, millions of Catholics around the world are, by association, affiliated with an organisation who would rather let millions of babies die a painful death than never be conceived in the first place. Very Christian.

[MPTrooper]

And JFK was killed by the dude in the grassy area...

What's your point?

My point is that JFK's death was as it is commonly accepted. Albino Luciani's is not. When a theory is confronted with evidence it is no longer a theory.

As a consequence of the actions of a few self-important Italian men in silly hats, millions of Catholics around the world are, by association, affiliated with an organisation who would rather let millions of babies die a painful death than never be conceived in the first place. Very Christian.

Tell that to the millions of people who believe JFK was killed by the Mafia as well.
I also find it funny that you would blame the Catholic Church for the deaths of those children instead of someone more deserving...say the parents?

[JimGardner1973]

And JFK was killed by the dude in the grassy area...

What's your point?

My point is that JFK's death was as it is commonly accepted. Albino Luciani's is not. When a theory is confronted with evidence it is no longer a theory.

As a consequence of the actions of a few self-important Italian men in silly hats, millions of Catholics around the world are, by association, affiliated with an organisation who would rather let millions of babies die a painful death than never be conceived in the first place. Very Christian.

Tell that to the millions of people who believe JFK was killed by the Mafia as well.
I also find it funny that you would blame the Catholic Church for the deaths of those children instead of someone more deserving...say the parents?

In the first world you are, of course, right. But in the developing world the only contact millions of people have with western medicine and technology is provided to them by Catholic missionaries. For the leaders of the church to ignore the evidence handed over to them by their own workers on the ground and go further to in fact instruct them to teach against such wisdom, in any other area of life, this would be plane and simple criminal neglect - but because they do it in the name of religion, it's OK.

Well, it isn't OK. It's sick. If you want to defend an evil which is demonstrable in your fight against one which is imagined, go right ahead, but please - don't make yourself look any more silly than you already do by attempting on tortuous theological grounds to justify immoral ignorance by ignoring the question and misdirecting the point towards an obviously flawed conspiracy.

[JimGardner1973]

When JPI died, my fundamentalist boss and coworker were lying in wait at the office door. As soon as I arrived they practically jumped me in glee, "Your Pope is dead!" They seemed disappointed that I was saddened, but not laid low by the news.

The conspiracy theories I've heard include that JPI was a compromise candidate who was considered controllable. Instead, the story goes, he was sympathetic to reversing Church opinions against married priests and female priests on the one hand, and birth control on the other. For these two reasons alone, he had to go. From what I've studied of ingrained Church politics and situational ethics, I would not be surprised. At the same time, I've never been able to get worked up over it. If you're going to go down the conspiracy theory route, then you're probably susceptible to the prophecy route, and then you've got Saint (Saint!) Malachy's predictions that the problem will correct itself soon enough... (smile)

I don't mean this in a small way, but I just don't follow you. How can you "not get worked up" over evidence which suggests a head of state was assassinated because his wishes were against those of the corrupt establishment? And why would my interest in pointing this out mean I am susceptible to a belief in prophets? You're not making any sense. None.

[JimGardner1973]

From "The power and the glory: Inside the dark heart of John Paul II's Vatican" - by David Yallop.

A Vatican Bank 'religious foundation' was used in 1995 for the laundering of $100 million. It featured in what became known as "the cheque to cheque" investigation. In November 1995 Italian prosicutors asked Spain for permission to interrogate Cardinal Carles, an Opus Dei favourite and close friend of the Pope's who was frequently tipped as his successor. They wanted to investigate whether the account was in Carles's name or controlled by him and whether he had guaranteed the recycling of $100 million through the Bank. The money was destined for a Swiss business man, as part of the proceeds from illicit trading of arms, precious stones and radioactive material. Arrest warrants were issued for thirty-six people and a further thirty-one were advised they were under investigation.
Cardinal Carles refused to respond to the Italian summons and to all subsequent requests to make himself available for questioning. Carles, politically to the far right, uttered what could be called the Sindona defence, that it was all a plot by the enemies of Liberty against the Church: "These attacks have in the past been levelled at particular Cardinals and have subsequently found to be false. Now it's my turn". Fellow Opus Dei member, the Vatican's spokesman Navarro Valls, issued a statement declaring that "...no relationship exists between the Cardinal, the IOR and the people mentioned in the Naples investigation". The Spanish Justice Department also weighed in on the behalf of the Cardinal dismissing the allegations.
In June 1996 what had appeared to be a closed investigation erupted. In Italy twenty people were arrested and a further ten were sought on international warrants. The investigating magistrate yet again declared his belief that the Archbishop of Barcelona had assisted in the laundering of at least $100 million through the Vatican Bank. Pope John Paul II, Karol Wojtyla, concerned that a close friend and Opus Dei favorite for the Papal succession was on the brink of disaster, summoned Cardinal Carles to Rome and had a private meeting of nearly one hour with him. Subsequently Wojtyla promoted Carles to the governing board of the Holy See's Prefecture for Economic Affairs headed by Cardinal Szoka. Under the terms of the Lateran Treaty between the Vatican and Italy, cardinals are immune from arrest. Eventually prosecutor Ormanni was forced to abandon this part of his investigation.

[pieces o'nine]

I don't mean this in a small way, but I just don't follow you. How can you "not get worked up" over evidence which suggests a head of state was assassinated because his wishes were against those of the corrupt establishment? And why would my interest in pointing this out mean I am susceptible to a belief in prophets? You're not making any sense. None.

I wasn't dissing you, personally, Jim, and I apologize if it sounded that way. My remarks about JPI, conspiracy theories, and prophecy were directed to Cap'n Turtlehead, as a friendly warning before he delved into a topic which -- seemingly -- was outside his familiarity. There is no shortage of prophecies, theories, and apologists around any question, and that holds especially true for political, religious, and political-religious inquiries.

To answer your question, I was greatly saddened by the death of JPI, and I, too, found it suspicious, to say the least. But I did not 'get worked up over it' because at that time I was coming to grips with the conclusion that I could no longer remain within the confines of the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church. In order to separate, I needed to separate.

For what it's worth, I am no fan of the Magisterium. I do speak out on issues where certain RC tenets harm not only its own members but spill out (poisonously, in my opinion) into the greater world. I do not hesitate to use my first-hand knowledge and extensive study to support my arguments in those cases. However, since I have concluded that being a staunch, full-time Roman Catholic is not healthy for me, I do not think it any more healthy to become a staunch, full-time anti-Roman Catholic. I pick my battles, and JPI is, frankly, not one of them. That he is yours is fine with me, and I wish you good luck in your quest to help right a wrong. OK? Welcome to the board.

-pieces

[JimGardner1973]

I don't mean this in a small way, but I just don't follow you. How can you "not get worked up" over evidence which suggests a head of state was assassinated because his wishes were against those of the corrupt establishment? And why would my interest in pointing this out mean I am susceptible to a belief in prophets? You're not making any sense. None.

I wasn't dissing you, personally, Jim, and I apologize if it sounded that way. My remarks about JPI, conspiracy theories, and prophecy were directed to Cap'n Turtlehead, as a friendly warning before he delved into a topic which -- seemingly -- was outside his familiarity. There is no shortage of prophecies, theories, and apologists around any question, and that holds especially true for political, religious, and political-religious inquiries.

To answer your question, I was greatly saddened by the death of JPI, and I, too, found it suspicious, to say the least. But I did not 'get worked up over it' because at that time I was coming to grips with the conclusion that I could no longer remain within the confines of the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church. In order to separate, I needed to separate.

For what it's worth, I am no fan of the Magisterium. I do speak out on issues where certain RC tenets harm not only its own members but spill out (poisonously, in my opinion) into the greater world. I do not hesitate to use my first-hand knowledge and extensive study to support my arguments in those cases. However, since I have concluded that being a staunch, full-time Roman Catholic is not healthy for me, I do not think it any more healthy to become a staunch, full-time anti-Roman Catholic. I pick my battles, and JPI is, frankly, not one of them. That he is yours is fine with me, and I wish you good luck in your quest to help right a wrong. OK? Welcome to the board.

-pieces

Yeah and I should have followed up on that sooner. I realised you were answering someone else after I read the rest of the thread - but truth be told I had to bath the dog!

Good to meet you