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Postby Platypus on Tue Apr 03, 2007 4:18 am

When i go back to school from my holidays i will be wearing my pirate regalia and they cant do jack about it if they dont like it becuase there are muslims at my school and they let them where their burkas that look more like balaclavas than anything else, so why shouldnt i be allowed to wear an eyepatch, a lot less desruptive!!
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Postby MPTrooper on Tue Apr 03, 2007 9:36 am

Platypus wrote:When i go back to school from my holidays i will be wearing my pirate regalia and they cant do jack about it if they dont like it becuase there are muslims at my school and they let them where their burkas that look more like balaclavas than anything else, so why shouldnt i be allowed to wear an eyepatch, a lot less desruptive!!



Translation:

"I want to look and act like a jackass because my parents don't pay enough attention to me! I'll justifiy my behavior by being a small minded bigot against a group of people I don't like! So there!"
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Postby PantyGnawer on Tue Apr 03, 2007 9:52 am

MPTrooper wrote:Translation:

"I want to look and act like a jackass because my parents don't pay enough attention to me! I'll justifiy my behavior by being a small minded bigot against a group of people I don't like! So there!"


What an unwarranted ad hom attack. MPT you are a total dousche. You are being way more bigoted than the comment he made. We know how you feel, you aren't adding anything to this discussion. Please allow us to duscuss it without your continued asswipery.
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Postby MPTrooper on Tue Apr 03, 2007 10:01 am

PirateGuy wrote:
MPTrooper wrote:Translation:

"I want to look and act like a jackass because my parents don't pay enough attention to me! I'll justifiy my behavior by being a small minded bigot against a group of people I don't like! So there!"


What an unwarranted ad hom attack. MPT you are a total dousche. You are being way more bigoted than the comment he made. We know how you feel, you aren't adding anything to this discussion. Please allow us to duscuss it without your continued asswipery.


Translation:

"I can't believe someone would call my friend out! MPT frightens me with his logic and maturity. In an attempt to mask that I will call him a dirty name. I am upset that he is seeing through our sad attempts to be "cool" and so I will attempt to throw his point back at him in a way that makes no sense. I'm hoping that by being an insulting teenager and talking to him like I would my teenage friends he will go away and allow us to make fools of ourselves!"

This is fun! Give me another!
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Postby PantyGnawer on Tue Apr 03, 2007 10:27 am

C'mon MPT get over yourself. I don't know that guy nor have I ever read one of his posts before. Its just like every thread that has dealt with drugs in the last year. You continue to add the same comments over and over again, without adding anything to the conversation. Yes we know that you will continue to enforce whatever drug laws are on the books. Why do you need to keep posting when you add nothing to the conversation. We all know your stance, unless you want to add to the conversation, you should likely just keep quiet!

We all knew long ago that you didn't agree with Brians cause. Your ad hom attack against Platypus didn't add information to the discussion, it just proved that you will continue to attack those you disagree with. We all know how you stand! Unless you have anything else to add to the discussion, perhaps you should just continue policing the boards for anti-catholic discussion, as you are no longer needed here.
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Postby Marcion on Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:52 am

EarthRise wrote:You misunderstand my intent.


My apologies.

EarthRise wrote:I feel that you found it appropriate to absolutely ignore all other debate that has since been occurring in your grandiose statementwhich completely overrides all discussion thus far.


By reassuring a person? You are reaching far beyond either context or implication. I never advocated stifling any debate in any way. The tone of the thread, however, sounded extremely discouraging to Trilom's position. Please do not try and "read between the lines". I have no hidden agenda.


EarthRise wrote:The FSM was founded in an effort to parody extremes of religious demands


Yes, yes it was. I don't see a conflict, and suggest we may be talking past each other from here. No need for that. :)

/Ramen
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Postby Marcion on Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:57 am

Tomorrow is Ash Wednesday, my son has made a custom eyepatch for the occasion and has (gasp) actually put effort into studying the school code. Even looked it up and got a recent copy, highlighted points and everything. Such a great learning experience. He will be insisting the catholics wash their crosses off and the hindus remove their dots if he is not allowed to wear his regalia. Makes me proud.
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Postby MPTrooper on Tue Apr 03, 2007 1:14 pm

Marcion wrote:Tomorrow is Ash Wednesday, my son has made a custom eyepatch for the occasion and has (gasp) actually put effort into studying the school code. Even looked it up and got a recent copy, highlighted points and everything. Such a great learning experience. He will be insisting the catholics wash their crosses off and the hindus remove their dots if he is not allowed to wear his regalia. Makes me proud.



Umm...hate to tell you but, you're a few weeks late. Ash Weds was about a month ago at the start of Lent.

I'm also hoping you're not serious in encouraging him to act like a jerk. Do you honestly think most, if any of the kids at his school even know about the FSM? If another student came to me and told me to wash the ashes off my head, I'd tell em to get bent, especially if he started talking about some made up religion.

You're doing your child a great disservice and I hope he has more common sense then to push your own atheist agenda on other people.

Remember kiddies. A mod and the head Admin, as well as the guy who created the FSM have said time and again this is a fake religion. To continue pushing it as real makes you look foolish.
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Postby EarthRise on Tue Apr 03, 2007 1:18 pm

Marcion wrote:Yes, yes it was. I don't see a conflict, and suggest we may be talking past each other from here. No need for that. :)

/Ramen


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Postby EarthRise on Tue Apr 03, 2007 1:28 pm

MPTrooper wrote:Remember kiddies. A mod and the head Admin, as well as the guy who created the FSM have said time and again this is a fake religion. To continue pushing it as real makes you look foolish.


Ooh, what mod was this?

Oh, that's right, me. :D

The critical difference between Catholicism, Hindus, Jews, Baptists, Sikhs, Buddhists, Scientologists, Muslims, Shintos, Unitarian Universalists, African tribal religions, Rastafarians, Zoroastrianists, Pagans...

and Pastafarians, is that all people in the above group are expected to actually believe in the standards set forth by the religions. You pretty much fail at Pastafarianism if you actually believe it.

That's what makes this entire satire so beautiful and functional.
[...] the difficulty of believing that a perfect and complex eye could be formed by natural selection, though insuperable by our imagination, should not be considered as subversive of the theory.
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Postby Marcion on Tue Apr 03, 2007 1:55 pm

EarthRise wrote:
Marcion wrote:Yes, yes it was. I don't see a conflict, and suggest we may be talking past each other from here. No need for that. :)

/Ramen


Kewlz. Sorry if I went off the deep end.


I don't know that it isn't warranted, considering the conclusion jumping that goes on here from time to time. Drop by my beer volcano anytime.
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Postby Marcion on Tue Apr 03, 2007 2:03 pm

MPTrooper wrote:
Marcion wrote:Umm...hate to tell you but, you're a few weeks late. Ash Weds was about a month ago at the start of Lent.

I'm also hoping you're not serious in encouraging him to act like a jerk. Do you honestly think most, if any of the kids at his school even know about the FSM? If another student came to me and told me to wash the ashes off my head, I'd tell em to get bent, especially if he started talking about some made up religion.

You're doing your child a great disservice and I hope he has more common sense then to push your own atheist agenda on other people.

Remember kiddies. A mod and the head Admin, as well as the guy who created the FSM have said time and again this is a fake religion. To continue pushing it as real makes you look foolish.


Really? My bad, I guess it will be Friday then afterall. Really aren't many practicing catholics in the school, but lots of immigrants. But that is beside the point.

Otherwise you know nothing of which you speak. Which, ironically, is something you fight against in other threads that make blanket statements. Don't assume I am pushing any agenda. He is tired of the religious persecution he has experienced for years, mostly from sanctimonious asses who push their religious agenda against him through their children. And he is now learning a little bit about introspection, because I have forced him to really think about what his goals are with the whole eyepatch thing. Is it an attention thing? Is it revenge? Is it jealousy? Is the point moot? A positive experience all around.
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Postby Zankou on Tue Apr 03, 2007 9:58 pm

Marcion wrote:
MPTrooper wrote:
Marcion wrote:Umm...hate to tell you but, you're a few weeks late. Ash Weds was about a month ago at the start of Lent.

I'm also hoping you're not serious in encouraging him to act like a jerk. Do you honestly think most, if any of the kids at his school even know about the FSM? If another student came to me and told me to wash the ashes off my head, I'd tell em to get bent, especially if he started talking about some made up religion.

You're doing your child a great disservice and I hope he has more common sense then to push your own atheist agenda on other people.

Remember kiddies. A mod and the head Admin, as well as the guy who created the FSM have said time and again this is a fake religion. To continue pushing it as real makes you look foolish.


Really? My bad, I guess it will be Friday then afterall. Really aren't many practicing catholics in the school, but lots of immigrants. But that is beside the point.

Otherwise you know nothing of which you speak. Which, ironically, is something you fight against in other threads that make blanket statements. Don't assume I am pushing any agenda. He is tired of the religious persecution he has experienced for years, mostly from sanctimonious asses who push their religious agenda against him through their children. And he is now learning a little bit about introspection, because I have forced him to really think about what his goals are with the whole eyepatch thing. Is it an attention thing? Is it revenge? Is it jealousy? Is the point moot? A positive experience all around.


Good...but i have to agree, MpT's translations made sense...but the english language has a lot of context issues...

The bottom line is, pastafarianism IS a satirical analysis of most religions' characteristics and structure...


But that doesn't mean we shouldn't be forced to remove our eyepatches, as they are , if not religous paraphernalia, a religous protest...

oh, and Marcion....

ASH WEDNESDAY WAS IN FEBRUARY...EVEN IF YOU ARE NOT A PRACTICING CATHOLIC/CHRISTIAN. EVERY BLOODY PERSON KNOWS THAT ASH WEDNESDAY IS EXACLTY 40 DAYS PRIOR TO EASTER...

i assume, as most people, you celebrate Easter? well, just so you know, easter, lent, ash wednesday...they are all the most important celebrations in the Catholic/Christian Church...so to disrespect them like this is kind of mean...


( i was just wondering,...do other Christians celebrate lent and ash wednesday? i know they do easter...)
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Postby PantyGnawer on Tue Apr 03, 2007 10:35 pm

EarthRise wrote:and Pastafarians, is that all people in the above group are expected to actually believe in the standards set forth by the religions. You pretty much fail at Pastafarianism if you actually believe it.

That's what makes this entire satire so beautiful and functional.


See, I always though the point was to pretend that you believe around others no matter what. I saw this as a commentary about how dumb it is to value blind faith over reason.

I can understand if you don't agree with Brians campaign, but it seems like you are ruining the party for everyone else by running around spouting off about how this is a fake religion.

Of course most people are intelligent enough to figure out for themselves that most of us don't really believe, but its obvious that some folks out there really think that some of us believe it, and this has always been where the joy in it all lies for me. The hatemails from christians who toatally miss the satire and really believe that we're serious, are the best!

The point is that you can't measure whether or not a christian or muslim really believe what their religion tells them. Just like you can't prove whether pastafarians beleive either.

All religions were made up by a person at some point. Even if you are a christian you likely believe that other religions were made up by a person at some point.

Even if someone proved that Jesus never existed and the whole thing was a hoax, christians would go on believing, and chriatianity would remain an established religion with tax exempt status. Just the same, even if Bobby comes out and admits that he made it all up, it doesn't nullify the whole thing. As long as there is potentially 1 person out there who truly believes in FSM (deluded and crazy as they might be), then I feel that its a real religion. And unless you can prove that this person does not exist, I don't think you can say that this is a fake religion.
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Postby EarthRise on Tue Apr 03, 2007 10:48 pm

PirateGuy wrote:See, I always though the point was to pretend that you believe around others no matter what. I saw this as a commentary about how dumb it is to value blind faith over reason.


Actually, I do hold that this is the case.

PirateGuy wrote:I can understand if you don't agree with Brians campaign, but it seems like you are ruining the party for everyone else by running around spouting off about how this is a fake religion.


I prefer to think of myself as "keeping it real."

PirateGuy wrote:Of course most people are intelligent enough to figure out for themselves that most of us don't really believe, but its obvious that some folks out there really think that some of us believe it, and this has always been where the joy in it all lies for me. The hatemails from christians who toatally miss the satire and really believe that we're serious, are the best!

The point is that you can't measure whether or not a christian or muslim really believe what their religion tells them. Just like you can't prove whether pastafarians beleive either.

All religions were made up by a person at some point. Even if you are a christian you likely believe that other religions were made up by a person at some point.

Even if someone proved that Jesus never existed and the whole thing was a hoax, christians would go on believing, and chriatianity would remain an established religion with tax exempt status. Just the same, even if Bobby comes out and admits that he made it all up, it doesn't nullify the whole thing. As long as there is potentially 1 person out there who truly believes in FSM (deluded and crazy as they might be), then I feel that its a real religion. And unless you can prove that this person does not exist, I don't think you can say that this is a fake religion.


I actually posted this in another section, and started making connections to your statements:

EarthRise wrote:think it's fun and, more importantly, pointed to cry religious discrimination in defence of Pastafarianism, but I also think it is important to realize that such claims can only work on the general public, not in a legal setting, for the reasons that I mentioned previously. That's what Bobby did with his protest of ID with the FSM; he wasn't actually trying to achieve a simultaneous instruction of Pastafarian creationism (and he probably would have been horrified if that was the resolution) but simply parodying ID through satire for the understanding of the council members, to whom he was demonstrating the complete frivolity of religious involvement in the classroom.

So, to answer your inquiry, yes, I think FSMism can serve as a very effective demonstration of religious discrimination. However, pursuing legal intervention is worthless. The benefit exists for the populace, and, given the drastic rise in traffic of the main site following that issue, I think that particular goal was successful.


As to your points concerning what makes a "real religion," I think I have provided enough evidence to suggest that, because Pastafarianism actively demands a two-faced treatment of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, that is to say, the advocates of the FSM realize that the FSM is a parody, and maintain Him as such a parody to other people, any such person who has faith in a flying lump of spaghetti is not a Pastafarian, but rather a complete nut.

Pastafarianism seems to require that hypocritical aspect to make preying on people's comprehension of religion and its ridiculous statements so much sweeter.

To summarize: a real religion must have those who actually believe in its doctrines. And belief in the doctrines of Pastafarianism essentially isolates one from Pastafarianism. So even if there are true believers of the FSM, they cannot be considered true Pastafarianisms; ergo, true Pastafarianism will never have a population of those who actually believe in the FSM.
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