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Postby EarthRise on Sat Mar 31, 2007 6:33 pm

blackeyedbutch wrote:...it still teaches basic principals which, while very loose, are still guidlines for life, making it a real religious lifestyle.


Except that, central to Pastafarian belief, the religion is recognized as a joke. We treat it as real when we are competing with Intelligent Design, for the purpose of demonstrating that cause and correlation are not always practical, and that religious considerations in lieu of science are arbitrary and useless. And the religion remains a protest of ID through lampoon. Actually embracing the FSM negates the entire concept behind Pastafarianism.

blackeyedbutch wrote:and Wiccan started long before 1920 but the name wiccan came into existance around than it is a branch from druidism, but states that the goddess isn't the mother nature herself and is a being above worldly conprehension, or something like that. I hear this from one of my firends everyday who comes from a wiccan family


Again, this is not the case of Wicca. Wicca is the specific religion as promoted by Gardner, which came into existence in the 20th century. It fed off the principles of pagan worship and witchcraft.

Wicca is the name that was given to the belief system and the methodology of magick and worship. The beliefs are nothing new, and were central to worshiping before the advent of Christianity. Wicca was created to make pagan worship more valid. And, yes, the claim goes that it is an 'olde religion,' but the work of one Philip Heselton, a Wiccan himself, provides for Wicca is a rehash of rituals practiced as an 'olde religion.' Other Wiccans prefer to state that it is such a religion in order to suggest a timelessness of belief, as is suggested by most other established religions.

The situation is synonymous with the Unitarian Universalists. UUism is not an old religion, and we'll admit this at any point in time. It's true: UUism was produced by a merger of the American Unitarian Association and the Universalist Church in America in 1961. It's ridiculous to pretend otherwise. However, our ministers make the point that our foundations lie in the actions of Martin Luther, since the essential premises of unitarianism did actually arise soon following the church schism. So our ideas are old, but our religion is new.
[...] the difficulty of believing that a perfect and complex eye could be formed by natural selection, though insuperable by our imagination, should not be considered as subversive of the theory.
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Postby blackeyedbutch on Sat Mar 31, 2007 6:41 pm

No wiccan has nothing to do with magick, but some confuse it with witchcraft due to public apperance of it Wiccan is herblore and godess worship they don't believe in magickal properties of these herbs nor anything else. Todays veiw of Wiccan is nothing like that which actually was Wiccan

and about the pastafarian religon as a joke i thought you were saying pastafarians veiw it as a jokeand it's clearly not going against pastafarianism to worship FSM just read the Gospel and reject all logical assumption that come with it
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Postby EarthRise on Sat Mar 31, 2007 6:59 pm

blackeyedbutch wrote:No wiccan has nothing to do with magick, but some confuse it with witchcraft due to public apperance of it Wiccan is herblore and godess worship they don't believe in magickal properties of these herbs nor anything else. Todays veiw of Wiccan is nothing like that which actually was Wiccan


What are you talking about? Personal Wiccans can avoid the magickal aspect, but saying that Wicca doesn't acknowledge magick and use it extensively is a misled conclusion. I am speaking as one who was a Wiccan. Every book of Wicca I procured in that time advocated the use of magick as a variety of prayer and life improvement. Central to the Wicca practice is the creation of a four-point circle representing the four elements - fire, water, wind, earth - as well as the lighting of candles/incense and the burning of paper upon which prayers are written. I have a spellbook of Wicca that describes the multitude of words, movements, and prayers to be committed to reach an end.

It may not be for every Wiccan, but it is central to Wiccan application.

blackeyedbutch wrote:and about the pastafarian religon as a joke i thought you were saying pastafarians veiw it as a jokeand it's clearly not going against pastafarianism to worship FSM just read the Gospel and reject all logical assumption that come with it


I'm saying that real Pastafarians realize that Pastafarianism is a joke. Against the concept of ID we maintain it is a real religion. Otherwise, it is a satire.
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Postby blackeyedbutch on Sat Mar 31, 2007 8:25 pm

EarthRise wrote:
What are you talking about? Personal Wiccans can avoid the magickal aspect, but saying that Wicca doesn't acknowledge magick and use it extensively is a misled conclusion. I am speaking as one who was a Wiccan. Every book of Wicca I procured in that time advocated the use of magick as a variety of prayer and life improvement. Central to the Wicca practice is the creation of a four-point circle representing the four elements - fire, water, wind, earth - as well as the lighting of candles/incense and the burning of paper upon which prayers are written. I have a spellbook of Wicca that describes the multitude of words, movements, and prayers to be committed to reach an end.


It may not be for every Wiccan, but it is central to Wiccan application.
[/quote]

as to this, I dunno you might be right I was just passing on what I have to hear nearly everytime someone associates Wiccan to magic


EarthRise wrote:I'm saying that real Pastafarians realize that Pastafarianism is a joke. Against the concept of ID we maintain it is a real religion. Otherwise, it is a satire.


Its so much a joke that its not a joke.
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Postby Jean Bart on Sat Mar 31, 2007 8:38 pm

Related thread ?
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Postby Zankou on Sat Mar 31, 2007 8:48 pm

Jean!!!! this is the original thread!!!!!
"I reject your reality, and substitute my own!"
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"Oh what a tangled web we weave, When first we practise to deceive!"
--Sir Walter Scott, Marmion, Canto vi. Stanza 17.


"Take what you can!", "Give nothing back!"
--Pirates of the Caribbean


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Postby Trilom on Sat Mar 31, 2007 9:00 pm

yes, but it was not a distraction....Bryan has already stated this....only the one teacher had a problem with it.

Not teacher, administrator had the problem, and she stated it was a classroom disruption, which she had no basis on this statement.

Jean!!!! this is the original thread!!!!!


Indeed[/quote]
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Postby Zankou on Sat Mar 31, 2007 9:01 pm

is this a public school (pretty sure, just checking for clarification)?
"I reject your reality, and substitute my own!"
--Adam Savage, Mythbusters


"Oh what a tangled web we weave, When first we practise to deceive!"
--Sir Walter Scott, Marmion, Canto vi. Stanza 17.


"Take what you can!", "Give nothing back!"
--Pirates of the Caribbean


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Postby Trilom on Sat Mar 31, 2007 9:10 pm

Zankou wrote:is this a public school (pretty sure, just checking for clarification)?


Buncombe County Public Schools
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Postby Zankou on Sat Mar 31, 2007 9:13 pm

how dumb....i feel for you buddy
"I reject your reality, and substitute my own!"
--Adam Savage, Mythbusters


"Oh what a tangled web we weave, When first we practise to deceive!"
--Sir Walter Scott, Marmion, Canto vi. Stanza 17.


"Take what you can!", "Give nothing back!"
--Pirates of the Caribbean


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Postby Trilom on Sat Mar 31, 2007 9:20 pm

Yeah thanks. I don't know what to do from now, I've done all I can, the only next step is to keep the media going with it, which is starting to die, or actually take the school to court. I don't have the money to get a lawyer like the school does, if I do this, then I'd have to be in touch with the ACLU. I'm not sure how to do that, other then just emailing them about my case. What do other pastafarians think?
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Postby Zankou on Sat Mar 31, 2007 9:24 pm

well....the easiest thing to do would be to not wear your costume...as i see it, it isn't ESSENTIAL to wear pirate garb, just recomended. the Fsm is usually drunk, so he probably wont notice...even if he did, ....lax moral standards....so he wont really care.

But, the more important question is...are you gonna fail this grade because of your missed days? if so, you either have to grin and bear it...and retake this year...which would suck...

or you would have to pursue this legally.

I wish i knew more about law, but i can't really help you know...it's funny, cause i plan to be a lawyer when i grow up...but im still juts 14..sigh..

good luck,

Zankou
"I reject your reality, and substitute my own!"
--Adam Savage, Mythbusters


"Oh what a tangled web we weave, When first we practise to deceive!"
--Sir Walter Scott, Marmion, Canto vi. Stanza 17.


"Take what you can!", "Give nothing back!"
--Pirates of the Caribbean


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Postby Trilom on Sat Mar 31, 2007 9:28 pm

Yes I am in danger of failing, getting PC's, Pending Credits, which could cause me to fail my classes, not the year, as I took english last semester and already passed, but it could leave me four credits down, which would put me in danger of not graduating in a few years.
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Postby Zankou on Sat Mar 31, 2007 9:33 pm

So basically, this could **** up your entire future....most people will tell you that "this is your fault", and you should have followed the rules.

But you did....this really sucks....if i were able to go to your city, id show up at your school infull pirate regalia, sign in, and just walk the halls all day, pissing your "administrator" off....hehe...and id be a nija pirate, too, so i could disappear....

And you said the police were involved, too? and that they said they would "remove" you?...and you werent being oppositional?
"I reject your reality, and substitute my own!"
--Adam Savage, Mythbusters


"Oh what a tangled web we weave, When first we practise to deceive!"
--Sir Walter Scott, Marmion, Canto vi. Stanza 17.


"Take what you can!", "Give nothing back!"
--Pirates of the Caribbean


Zankou, Vice Fuhrer of The Grammar Nazis.

Click here!
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Postby Trilom on Sat Mar 31, 2007 9:51 pm

And you said the police were involved, too? and that they said they would "remove" you?...and you werent being oppositional?


The whole thing with this was. While the Asst Principal, and the Principal continued to bitch me out, the police's ears perked up, and walked over, and said 'i'll drag him out of here if I need to'. I wasn't showing any force or anything, I was trying to virtually debate them on what they would call a religion, religion is based on faith in my opinion, and I have put my faith in the FSM, and they said I shouldn't have faith basically. And that kept me talking to them, hoping they'd be touched. Eventually the SRO (police) said what was up there, and I just looked at him, basically disgusted at how stupid that comment was lol.
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