Christmas

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Christmas

Postby Y'aaaaaaarrdvark on Mon Dec 04, 2006 6:03 pm

A queston just crossed my mind - do Pastfarians celebrate Christmas? I'm just wondering with it being a Christian holiday and all.

BTW, I know that everyone celebrates Christmas anyway, I'm just wonderin :fsm_float:
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Postby Fatwalrus on Mon Dec 04, 2006 11:05 pm

i think it's ok, well, at least i celebrate it. aaaaannnnd what if you get the FSM gospel for christmas? that's gotta be ok
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Postby Y'aaaaaaarrdvark on Tue Dec 05, 2006 2:00 pm

I've already got it lol, but that would be a good thing.
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Postby Veritas on Tue Dec 05, 2006 5:32 pm

Well, my Christmases have never been Christian. They have been about the presents, and food. The only thing Christian about them have been the LOLing at their silliness.
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Postby Fatwalrus on Tue Dec 05, 2006 10:17 pm

RAmen to that
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Re: Christmas

Postby Duke on Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:22 pm

Y'aaaaaaarrdvark wrote:A queston just crossed my mind - do Pastfarians celebrate Christmas? I'm just wondering with it being a Christian holiday and all.

BTW, I know that everyone celebrates Christmas anyway, I'm just wonderin :fsm_float:


We celebrate "Holiday", which is when you go to Wal-Mart, the cashiers wish you "Happy Holidays". :D


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Postby anthrobabe on Wed Dec 13, 2006 3:20 pm

I celebrate it-- because people give me things, I accept UPS deliveries up till Dec 24th then I'm "off" till Jan 1st- so mail early to make anthrobabe happy!

no really

I do holidays, my family does CHRISTmas-- we get along (usually)


I am facinated by the entire idea that christmas falls near the winter solstice, easter near the spring solstice ETC-- I think that was the point of early christians, at least in part, to get pagans to celebrate their things by "taking over" already celebrated days and making them "Christian".
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Postby The Dead Parrot on Wed Dec 13, 2006 9:18 pm

anthrobabe wrote:I am facinated by the entire idea that christmas falls near the winter solstice, easter near the spring solstice ETC-- I think that was the point of early christians, at least in part, to get pagans to celebrate their things by "taking over" already celebrated days and making them "Christian".


Christmas was originally celebrated earlier, probably in October, because Jesus was born during the harvest. But when the Roman Catholic church started expanding, it took over pagans with their holiday of mid-winter. So, they said "Christmas is now on that day" and the pagans were like "OK." So, it was celebrated for awhile, until the Catholic church realized the way Mid-winter was celebrated - Sex, Alchohol, and Gift Giving. So they outlawed it for awhile, and then let it come back with just the gift giving tradition intact. Thus, today's Christmas!

If you want, I can give the story of the tree too.
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The Soviets, faced with the same problem, used a pencil.

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Postby anthrobabe on Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:19 pm

Right, I had heard the Fall birth of Jesus thing before- just lost somewhere in my brain--

Doesn't the tree have something to do with St. Fancis of Assisi? Possibly just something else random floating about in the ol brain.
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Postby The Dead Parrot on Thu Dec 14, 2006 7:31 pm

anthrobabe wrote:Right, I had heard the Fall birth of Jesus thing before- just lost somewhere in my brain--

Doesn't the tree have something to do with St. Fancis of Assisi? Possibly just something else random floating about in the ol brain.


Yes, it does. At least, I think that is the name. I'm not too good with names. Anyway, this Catholic Missionary goes to an area of Norse religion. The Christmas tree spiecies (fur pine, or something like that?) was a symbol of one of their Gods, and cutting it down would mean death. So, the missionary says "I won't get smited when I cut this down because my god is THE god." So, he cuts it down, and of course nothing happens to him. So they turn Catholic. The Catholic Church then used that kind of tree for Christmas to ease the Norse people into Catholosism.
During the Space Race, American astronauts were faced with the problem that ink from their pens would not stay on the pentip.
After spending millions of dollars and a few years in research, they came up with the ballpoint pen. This solved the problem.

The Soviets, faced with the same problem, used a pencil.

The Daily Show 2006 Calender.

"Friends come and go, but Enemies seem to accumulate."

-- Myself

"Look to the Future, as it is the brightest place imaginable"

--Duke
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Postby Cuddly_Carpy on Fri Dec 15, 2006 3:36 pm

Wow... :)

I like these stories

*sits cross legged on the carpet and waits for teach to tell us more*
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Postby The Dead Parrot on Fri Dec 15, 2006 8:41 pm

You know, Jesus actually wasn't blessed by 3 Oriental Kings. Jesus' mother forced them to go away. It was another, Brian, who recieved the blessing.
During the Space Race, American astronauts were faced with the problem that ink from their pens would not stay on the pentip.
After spending millions of dollars and a few years in research, they came up with the ballpoint pen. This solved the problem.

The Soviets, faced with the same problem, used a pencil.

The Daily Show 2006 Calender.

"Friends come and go, but Enemies seem to accumulate."

-- Myself

"Look to the Future, as it is the brightest place imaginable"

--Duke
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Postby freethinking on Thu Dec 21, 2006 6:47 pm

Yes, it is true that this “Most Christian of Holidays” is Pagan in its origins and most of its traditions. Although the historical record is spotty, what is known is the ancient Pagan Romans celebrated a Winter Solstice festival called “Saturnalia” that honored the God Saturn, who was the God of the Harvest. This festival lasted about a week, from December 17th to the 23rd and was intended to please the God Saturn during the coldest, darkest time of the year in hopes that he would give the Romans a good harvest the next year. So the celebration included exchanging gifts, decorating with evergreens (seen as having magical properties by Pagans because they stayed green in winter when everything else turned brown – the evergreen tree, coming later from Pagan Germanic tribes, is also for this same Pagan nature-worship reason), temporarily freeing slaves (including switching roles in which the Roman masters would wait on their slaves for a day), having a large feast, and so on.

And then later on, the Romans, who were a very pious and superstitious people and hence adopted new Gods rather easily, adopted a new religion from the East called “Mithraism”. This religion centered on worship of the God Mithras, called the God of the Sun, and – this is where it gets interesting – Mithras’ birthday was celebrated on December 25th (aka, the Winter Solstice on the Julian calendar), when the Sun God Mithras was born to a virgin, as Sol Invictus (“The Unconquered Sun”) or, more properly, the Festival of the Birth of the Unconquered Sun. Once again, the historical records are spotty, but it seems that the leadership of ancient Rome, particularly the Emperors, adopted this religion enthusiastically. Although somewhat disputed, it reportedly was declared the State Religion of the Roman Empire over a century before Christianity was declared the State Religion (by Emperor Theodosius I, not Emperor Constantine as is commonly thought, who legalized Christianity).

As for how these Pagan traditions became associated with Christianity, there’s no record of exactly when this happened or how and why it occurred. But it is known that before roughly around the mid-300s, there was no mention of a celebration of Jesus’ birthday in any Christian calendars of the time, but that sometime afterwards, December 25th had mysteriously appeared on calendars as the date of the celebration of this event. The Roman Empire, despite being ruled by Christian Emperors at this time, was still mostly Pagan. So my theory is that a rather pragmatic Roman Emperor decided to bring the Christian and Pagan traditions together by combining the new religion with aspects of the old, and hence had issued a decree declaring that December 25th was Jesus’ birthday. I seriously doubt it was Emperor Theodosius I who did this, because he was a Christian zealot and responsible for suppressing and destroying a great deal of ancient Roman Paganism (most likely including, IMO, the destruction of the Great Library at Alexandria) so he was very unlikely to want to adopt Pagan festivals, and he became Emperor in 379 BCE. Therefore, it is my educated guess that it was one of the Emperors in the few decades before this year that established what we now call “Christmas” based at the time of the popular Pagan festivals. And then, following Theodosius I and other later violent suppressions, Paganism basically died out in the Roman Empire – but the traditions of its main festival survives to this day in the most “Christian” of holidays. And any “Christian” explanation for the holiday that you may hear or have heard – all of those are later inventions to help give a Christian veneer to these Pagan traditions.


Mithraism:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mithraism

Saturnalia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturnalia

Sol Invictus:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sol_Invictus

(article) Io, Saturnalia! Or, the real "Reason for the Season":
http://altreligion.about.com/library/we ... 21305a.htm

The History Channel's "Christmas Unwrapped: The History of Christmas" (look for it - watching it should be an annual tradition):
http://www.history.com/shows.do?episode ... ion=detail

.
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Postby haxmasta on Sun Dec 24, 2006 3:46 pm

Wow, all I have to say is wow. This honestly makes sense, in the scheme of things. I read many of Wiki articles, and the artwork of Jesus being surrounded by rays of light would encourage the old Pagan believers to convert to Christianity/Catholicism. And the Christmas tree too, cutting it down in front of many people who believe whole-heartedly that if you cut that tree down you would be smote on-the-spot, he cut it down, proved them wrong, and converted them.

After looking this over I've lost almost all of the faith in Christmas, all the songs, all the Nativity scenes that people act out and will factually tell you that it happened exactly on the 25th of December. But I haven't the heart to tell my family, who believe in Catholicism. They would either tell me I'm crazy or the more likely, feel awkward about celebrating Christmas....for the rest of their lives.

I guess the reason I feel so sorrowful about this is that most Christians will try and tell us we're wrong about our religion, when in fact they get the biggest holiday of their religion completely wrong. Wrong date, wrong birth, wrong religious background.

Will I outright say to a Christian that Christmas is wrong? No, especially if it's December. Will I get in a heated debate about this with my hallmates? You can bet your noodles I will.
"If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts."
Albert Einstein (dead)

RAmen.


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Christmas

Postby Czar_Choi on Mon Feb 26, 2007 3:46 am

Well the christians decided to keep Saturnalia going and call it Christmas right? So why don't the pastafarians just keep Christmas going and call it "Pasta Pirates Day" :pirate_fish: :D
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