a pronoun for FSM

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Postby PastaPlebe on Sun Aug 28, 2005 5:24 pm

Yeah, I dig your noodle. I have always thought there should be a pronoun denoting intelligence but being gender ambiguous (perhaps another for intelligences which are gender neutral). In English I have thought 'che' (pronounced: shay or chay) and/or 'te' (pronounced like 'tea'). As I am American I am not sufficiently fluent in any other languages to put one forward.
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Postby PeterS on Sun Aug 28, 2005 5:55 pm

Brothers and sisters in pasta,

I registered for this purpose because I think this is really an important topic. As you can see in another topic (the only one created by me), I used "It" for reasons explained therein. I would still consider that pronoun basically acceptable as it is not used only for lifeless objects in English (but please take into account that English is not my mother tongue), but I am entirely for a differentiation through creation of a new divine pronoun. Of the ones proposed by brother Credo, I do not recommend "ta" (it exists in Czech, meaning "this", but indicates a femininum - in English such an implication is impossible), and if we agree not to use the English "it", I also do not recommend "to", because in Czech it means exactly, err, "it".

I first thought that the new pronoun could be formed by a combination of all three English pronouns (she, he, it), but the first alternative that occured to me (you can guess) was so inconvenient that, although I believe our Holy Monster does have a sense of humour, I suggest that this is not the best way. I will inform you if I come across something more appropriate.

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Postby PeterS on Sun Aug 28, 2005 6:40 pm

credo_ergo_sum wrote:Thank you for digging, brother PeterS. I'm glad I made you join our international effort for spreading the Gospel :). I'm not a big fan of TaTu, but I still should have thought about that. Thank you for correcting me. What do you think about the propositions by PastaPlebe ?
Maybe the pronoun should have 2 syllabs after all, as a monosyllabic sound will always have at least one inconvenient meaning. For example, I suggested "Mi", but that's "me" in spanish : What was I thinking about ? It could be a difficult question after all...
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I am not sure. "Che" is not recommended since in Czech it is used in a sense similar to "heh" in English, meaning laughter, and possibly a not very friendly or respectful one. And yes, I would think that our Holy Monster deserves more than one syllable, but possibly not more than two, since the languages in which, for example, the length of a person's name is directly proportional to his/her importance make an ancient barbarian impression in my eyes.

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Postby PastaPlebe on Sun Aug 28, 2005 7:00 pm

Personally, the Czech connotation seems an argument in favor of "che." I also like your suggestion of forming an omnipotent, gender-neutral pronoun from a combination between all three existing pronouns. It has more of a 'Deity' feel if you have a word, but can't use it, adds a touch of the 'devinely mysterious'. Perhaps "che" could be the pronoun, and 'the other' should Chis Name.
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Postby PeterS on Sun Aug 28, 2005 7:22 pm

PastaPlebe wrote:Personally, the Czech connotation seems an argument in favor of "che." I also like your suggestion of forming an omnipotent, gender-neutral pronoun from a combination between all three existing pronouns. It has more of a 'Deity' feel if you have a word, but can't use it, adds a touch of the 'devinely mysterious'. Perhaps "che" could be the pronoun, and 'the other' should Chis Name.


But we cannot use "Che The Other" indefinitely, and at the same time to have a name that will not pass most forums' filters is not very convenient. Yes, we can claim that a Monstrous Greatness, but I would still suggest a combination. What about Shichet? If accepted, we Pastafarians will have a common secret, which will make our church even more coherent, I predict.

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Postby PastaPlebe on Sun Aug 28, 2005 7:40 pm

OOOooo! "Shichet" I like it! That'a good name for Che Who Flies. I think we should name Chim (Cher?) SHICHET. That has real meatballs.
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Postby PeterS on Sun Aug 28, 2005 8:50 pm

PastaPlebe wrote:OOOooo! "Shichet" I like it! That'a good name for Che Who Flies. I think we should name Chim (Cher?) SHICHET. That has real meatballs.


I would not be so optimistic - the new word would of course have to be first approved by our Guru, and I am not going to push it myself, I will leave it upon the VIPs at this forum. Yet I do think the word has some useful properties. Let me enumerate:

Comprehensivity and universality: Containing all three original pronouns, it is a genderless word. Denoting also a single unique entity, it can serve as a name (noun) and at the same time as its own pronoun (or, if you prefer, no pronoun is needed). As the last "t" comes from "it", the possessive form is of course Shichets (as in Shichets Noodly Appendages).

Secrecy and mysteriousness: One of the component words is so dangerous that it could never occur as such on this forum. The origin will be difficult to crack, and even then it could not be discussed in most media for reasons that also could not be discussed in much detail. A reflection of Shichets Greatness. I can imagine that one day, Bobby will post a laconic announcement on the home page that from now on, the Flying Spaghetti Monster is to be named Shichet, and that the reasons or the name's origin will not be disclosed for the sake of the visitors' safety.

Penetrability: The word actually should not penetrate into serious media at all, but it probably will, because of the above. It would be a great satisfaction to see, say, The Times to discuss Shichets origin and properties.

Supremacy: Given the origin of the word, I think that, for us who know, it clearly expresses the supremacy of the Church of the FSM, aka Pastafarianism, over all other churches, philosophies or whatever.

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Postby onlainari on Mon Aug 29, 2005 3:50 am

Spag.
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Postby PeterS on Mon Aug 29, 2005 8:36 am

Well, thinking about it, I see also one disadvantage of Shichet and its derivatives, the, in my opinion, suboptimal sound qualities. Moreover, I Googled Shichet and we obviously cannot use it - look, for example, here:

http://matt1618.freeyellow.com/birthcontrol.html

Also, I would keep the grammar simple and English-like - we do not have to prove FSM greatness through complication. At one time I considered a word that is almost unpronounceable (for example, "scvrnkl" is a Czech verb form meaning "he flipped something down"), but then I rejected that for similar reason.

Spag is unfortunately unusable (we should really Google our proposals before we post them) because it already exists (the first page I hit was one of the Society for the Promotion of Adventure Games). What we need is a word that not only cannot be found in the largest Webster, but also through Google search. If you follow the Telluride Festival (where, although some of the music is good, the concentration of our opponents may be above average even in US standards, I am afraid), you may know Pastor Mustard and the word "heen" he is so proud of having invented. Although I consider the sound qualities of that word good, if you google it, you will find out that it was just borrowed from other languages.

This will be a hard work, I am afraid. Also, I should apologize for probably not being able to contribute much in next few weeks, sorry.

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Postby TBoneTheBovine on Sun Sep 04, 2005 3:42 pm

There's a lot of different cases:
his, hers
he, she
him, her
ect

I think the pronoun should flow like the other pronouns

I recommend just the first consonent to 'f' for 'f'lying spagetti monster.

"I love the FSM, fe is so wonderful"

There is some problems though:
his or her, would be fis, or fer?

Maybe it doesnt' matter.. use either. The whole thesis of using the 'f' negates any specific sex.
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Postby danihana on Sun Sep 04, 2005 4:26 pm

"Te" means "You" in French.
"Che" means "That" in Italian.
"Fe" is "Faith" in Spanish.

I think Italian would be most fitting.
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Postby PastaPlebe on Sun Sep 04, 2005 6:43 pm

So, if we go back to Credo's six consonant sounds and four vowels, it turns out that there are exactly 10,000 different combinations if we limit it to no more than four 'letters' (one is actually a consonant digraph, 'ch'), assuming any name/pronoun of more than one letter must have at least two different letters in it. Four letter combinations would be: 10*10*10*9=9000, three letter: 10*10*9=900, two letter: 10*9=90, and ten single letter possibilities, making ten thousand possibilities in total (granted not all are pronounceable). We could do something with that: the One of ten thousand names, the Ten Thousand, The One (been done), ioooo (10,000).
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Postby Wombatman on Tue Sep 06, 2005 2:37 pm

What if FSM were just referred to in the first person plural. It would denote the presence of the pasta in all of us. FSM could be referred to as 'we' or 'us', depending on context and garlic content, of course.
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Postby onlainari on Wed Sep 07, 2005 1:58 am

hmm, a second page. well, the advantage of spag is that it means nothing in any language and is a four letter word.

spaghette isn't, however, already taken by some other organisation.

let us all go to the spaghette and pray.
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Postby PastaPlebe on Wed Sep 07, 2005 10:19 am

Okay, I like too many things; I can see that already. But I like the first person plural idea, quite a bit. The Flying Spaghetti Monster is Us; We are the Flying Spaghetti Monster. It rings very true on many levels. think the capitalization of Our pronoun is essential, though, as a sign of respect and just to keep meanings straight. It lacks in the neat-o factor, but oh well, I really like the idea, Wombatman, and I throw my vote behind it.
I say we submit this the the Great Inspired One, guru of the holy website, writer of the Letter; this is a winning idea if you ask me. And, what-the-heck, let's vote, too. Everybody raise your hands.
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