no joke..?

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no joke..?

Postby ThereIsNoGod on Sat May 06, 2006 8:35 pm

this is not hate mail, thus i'm just wondering.. isn't it a big joke.. that is gone a bit to big. or you guys really go preachin' on Sundays..
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Postby ThereIsNoGod on Sat May 06, 2006 8:43 pm

i have read it entirely... damn long. but i want people answers
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Postby DaveL on Sat May 06, 2006 9:00 pm

Personally speaking, it ain't no joke. If we really wish to see ID kept in religion classes where it belongs, we must also be serious.

We can either laugh or cry about what's going on in school science classes. Many of us choose to laugh, but that doesn't lessen or determination to see ID taught where it belongs.
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Postby Qwertyuiopasd on Sat May 06, 2006 9:06 pm

not exactly a joke, but not entirely serious. it started as a satirical rebuttle to ID being taught in schools, but some people, such as myself, have adopted FSM as our own, bonifide Deity. Bobby can't stop me, and its how I feel. but most people are just in it originally for the keeping ID out of school.
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Postby Griffin on Sat May 06, 2006 9:40 pm

Not a joke at all. Science is important. Muddying it with belief systems is a crazy concept. If you find it funny hilarious you may be missing the key issues.

All we do here is try to raise people's awareness and attract attention to the plight of priates who are passionate about climate change and so on.
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Postby ThereIsNoGod on Sat May 06, 2006 10:20 pm

so it's just a way to think.. but why flying spaghetti ? there is no link between science and spagh for me..
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Postby Griffin on Sat May 06, 2006 10:22 pm

ThereIsNoGod wrote:so it's just a way to think.. but why flying spaghetti ? there is no link between science and spagh for me..


Exactly.
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Postby DaveL on Sat May 06, 2006 10:30 pm

...and from a scientific perspective, spaghetti is no sillier than irreducible complexity or anything the Discovery Institute or other advocates of ID put out.
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Postby Qwertyuiopasd on Sat May 06, 2006 11:10 pm

and for monster, FSM rolls off the tounge easily and look nice
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Postby Nikkoru on Sun May 07, 2006 4:43 am

A deity which is also delicious would probably be seen as more benevolent.

FSM is certainly not going to be confused as something serious with the exception of the apparently enormously thick headed people that occasionally send hatemail apparently.

I assume the thread starter was in such a mental state to believe that some humans might actually take something like this seriously, a state I sometimes enter when supremely depressed about certain humans lack of sanity.
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Postby Al Dante on Sun May 07, 2006 2:03 pm

The specific details of the image of the Flying Spaghetti Monster might have been irrelevant to the original satiric purpose. But whether by chance, by Bobby's design, or by divine revelation, the Flying Spaghetti Monster's depicted physical form has a lot going for it as a reference point for post-modern contemplation of divine supernatural intelligences and their role in our universe and/or in our thinking.

Auntie Dee Dee already called out some of the high points -- most important, the noodliness and the multiplicity of appendages, implying unlimited powers of undetectable intervention along with a certain arbitrariness of form; but also the protein orbs whose function we can only guess about (we all have opinions, but it's impossible to resolve them definitively, as is true of so much of religion in general); the flying (remoteness, ambiguous size, and mobility, but wingless -- what use are angels' wings in a universe that's mostly vacuum?); and the paradoxical "always invisible, but looks like this..." nature overall.

Even more important is what the FSM isn't. First, it isn't a static figure. Invisible Pink Unicornism is intended to discount the idea of any god's existence, and the IPU as an image helps to convey that: a unicorn, in our current culture, is a rather trivial and ineffectual beast. It might poke someone with its horn but it probably won't, it'll probably just sit there, comforting in its familiarity but inert, like a figurine on a little girl's nightstand. The FSM, by contrast, by virtue of its noodly appendages, is a dynamic creature, potentially capable of touching anyone or everyone at any time, or always, as your beliefs incline. Second, it's not an animal or a tree or the sun or a galaxy or any other nature symbol -- we leave those symbols, respectfully, to nature worshippers, as the FSM is a creator god and that implies distinguishing the creator from the creation. Third, it's not a human being, which helps steer clear of many temptations to presumption and hubris. For instance, if the physical image of the creator were that of a human king, would it not be tempting to assume that the creator will resemble a human king in other respects as well -- such as being influenceable by flattery, being prone to becoming violently insecure if ritual safeguards aren't observed, and being pleased when you smite the subjects of some enemy king across the border? Or if the creator were to resemble your mother... well, you get the idea. Fourth, it's not an abstract concept, like love or entropy. While one's idea of the FSM (or any creator god) might encompass such abstract concepts, it appears that many of our puny human brains prefer a more concrete symbol (if that's not an oxymoron), something you can draw a picture of, to focus on.

With those four "what the FSM isn't" constraints, it's pretty much a monster by process of elimination. That is to say, the FSM is a physically embodied active being that's not a person or animal. Lovecraft invoked monstrous forms when he wanted to convey the "true horror" of existence, divine horror beyond depiction by ugly-dude part-human representations like vampires or ghouls. (And the FSM has been compared, physically, to Cthulhu; do a search on Cthulhu to find the threads.) Why not use an equally monstrous, but cuter and more benign, form to convey the "true joy" of existence beyond depiction by part-human representations like angels or avatars?

For some additional viewpoints on the "is this all a joke" question, I like to refer people to this thread. It starts out slow, but it's worth reading all the way through.

Best regards,

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Postby The Meromorph on Sun May 07, 2006 4:00 pm

Nice work, Al Dante! :fsm_rock:
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Postby Tickle on Sun May 07, 2006 5:08 pm

Al, you're the kind of person who makes me proud to be Pastafarian.

Al Dante wrote:For some additional viewpoints on the "is this all a joke" question, I like to refer people to this thread. It starts out slow, but it's worth reading all the way through.

Best regards,

ecumenicAL


(I was half expecting you to put the 'last post' thread in that link... I would have :twisted: )

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By the way, ThereIsNoGod, I would recommend reading this threadin its entirety. :)
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Postby Qwertyuiopasd on Sun May 07, 2006 9:49 pm

AL FOR MOD! AL FOR MOD!

Tickle, tell me the colour it shall be, and it shall be ye verily in my siggy de signastiticness.
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Postby Dr. Otis Lansa on Mon May 08, 2006 12:22 pm

ThereIsNoGod wrote:so it's just a way to think.. but why flying spaghetti ? there is no link between science and spagh for me..


And so I thought too, until the true nature of the Universe was revealed to me...

Hyper Spaghetti Monster Theory (WARNING: LONG thread. Most of the meat of the 'theory' is on the first page, and then we get into discussing antimatter, the Big Bang, dimensional inversions, dark matter and other delights).

erm, make that the FALSE nature. Please don't ask if HSM Theory is serious or is satire, because I'm not sure... :? :wink:

Certain things conspire to make Flying Spaghetti an apt choice. I wouldn't be here if Bobby interpreted the FSM as a Floating Hamburger Monster.
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