Prove to me that CFSM is hateful.

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Prove to me that CFSM is hateful.

Postby mddesan on Wed Aug 31, 2011 7:13 pm

Hello all fellow Pastafarians, as well as any visitors of other beliefs. I recently sent the legitimately curious below email to Bobby. I received a satisfactory answer in the form of a friendly shoulder shrug indicating that he shared my "buh?" feeling about the posts in the hate mail section.

As such, I ask that anyone who reads this post (especially CFSM detractors) to help me find evidence on this website that the CFSM actively spreads hate and mockery.

*********
Bobby,

I've been reading over the hate mail section of the website, and I keep seeing many of your detractors state they are turned off by the mocking and/or hateful tone of the website and the members of FSM. What I'm confused about is that I've searched the website and I actually can't find any hurtful comments or rhetoric from members FSM outside of their responses to the hatemail. Of course they will respond mockingly and angrily to Christians saying that they hope you choke on a whore's tampon, but where are the original comments that prompted these 'loving Christians' to vomit detritus at you over the inter-web? My guess is that they are projecting their own illogical hatred onto FSM, thus assuming that FSM hates and mocks them... but I can't find evidence of this.

I'd love it if you could point me tothe hateful rhetoric originally coined by FSM members, if it exists. I want to look at every angle of FSM before becoming an ordained minister, as I do not want to align myself with a hypocritical organization.

Curiously,

Mikey
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Re: Prove to me that CFSM is hateful.

Postby Roy Hunter on Thu Sep 01, 2011 7:41 am

Interesting question. I've thought roughly the same thing myself. I know quite a few Christians who are absolutely fine with discussing the shortcomings of their belief system, who claim that evolution is such an amazing thing that it must be the work of God. I like these Christians, and I tend to get on well with them.

The foaming-at-the-mouth ones, however, bear no resemblance to most of the Christians I know. It strikes me that they need SOMETHING, anything in their lives. They are unhappy, they are scared and angry, and if it wasn't God they latched onto, it would be Prozac, heroin, jogging, football, the army, something to 'make them whole' and fill the gaps in their lives.

If you start to challenge their assumptions and beliefs, they lash out, call you hateful and evil, say you're going to Hell. The contradiction that they feel the need to defend an omnipotent and omniscient God is apparently lost on them: if there is a God, I am sure he can fight His own battles.

Anyway, I have seen some fairly hateful stuff aimed at Christians by atheists, but I suspect we have our own fair share of scared incomplete people who need to lash out at what they don't understand or what threatens them.
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Re: Prove to me that CFSM is hateful.

Postby mddesan on Thu Sep 01, 2011 1:18 pm

Agreed. I'll openly admit that this is really a challenge to the CFSM detractors to back up their claims that the organization is hateful and disrespectful. I'm so tired of the seemingly over-arching belief these days that if you say something enough it becomes true, regardless of facts.
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Re: Prove to me that CFSM is hateful.

Postby daftbeaker on Thu Sep 01, 2011 1:29 pm

Roy Hunter wrote:Anyway, I have seen some fairly hateful stuff aimed at Christians by atheists, but I suspect we have our own fair share of scared incomplete people who need to lash out at what they don't understand or what threatens them.

:whistle:

mddesan wrote:Agreed. I'll openly admit that this is really a challenge to the CFSM detractors to back up their claims that the organization is hateful and disrespectful.

You'll be waiting a long time, they don't seem to have any reasoning beyond 'I don't like the idea' :facewall:
A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything - Friedrich Nietzsche

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Re: Prove to me that CFSM is hateful.

Postby Cardinal Fang on Sat Sep 03, 2011 3:19 pm

I think they claim it's hateful and mocking for the sole and simple reason that it isn't their particular interpretation of their particular religion, and that ANYTHING that doesn't correspond with their beliefs must therefore be something bad.

Logical or reasoned thought doesn't come into it.

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Re: Prove to me that CFSM is hateful.

Postby skyweir on Sat Sep 10, 2011 1:26 am

Hatefulness lies in the eye of the beholder. To the Westboro Baptists, homosexuality is hateful. To most Pastafarians, the WB's fit the bill. I think that to the nonaligned observer, there is a trace of the hateful in CSFM. I'd use the 'He boiled for your sins' t-shirt as an example of mockery, and note that there is little of kindness in mockery. Having said that, I'd list CSFM as one of the least hateful communities of people I have known. I became Pastafarian because it helped me moderate my own hateful response to the Norwegian massacre.

As to why some detractors find CSFM so hateful, Roy and CF have it nailed.

If you start to challenge their assumptions and beliefs, they lash out,

Logical or reasoned thought doesn't come into it.


By challenging their beliefs we challenge their place in their own communities, which is what gives them self-respect, a sense of belonging, and sustains them in their own (in my opinion often intolerant and deluded) lives. Faced with that sort of threat, they're not about to respond in a logical or reasoned way, or to regard us with tolerant amusement.
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Re: Prove to me that CFSM is hateful.

Postby Tigger_the_Wing on Thu Sep 15, 2011 8:18 am

skyweir wrote:[…]By challenging their beliefs we challenge their place in their own communities, which is what gives them self-respect, a sense of belonging, and sustains them in their own (in my opinion often intolerant and deluded) lives. Faced with that sort of threat, they're not about to respond in a logical or reasoned way, or to regard us with tolerant amusement.


Well put. It is obvious to me, then, that they aren't as sure of their 'beliefs' as they want other people to think they are, or 'tolerant amusement' would be the appropriate response.

If their religion was demonstrably true, they wouldn't be having to put so much (any) effort into being seen to believe in it for fear of being ostracised.

After all, when anyone denies a matter of fact, tolerant amusement is exactly what they get. No-one is offended or upset by the suggestion that pigs actually fly, or that giraffes are blue! But so much as hint that you aren't in complete agreement with their particular brand of religion, and all hell breaks loose.

I suspect that there are a lot of people trying very hard to convince themselves that they believe the same things that they think their communities believe, while not actually believing it at all (try telling them that Jesus actually has conversations with you at night-time, and see how fast they call the men in white coats).
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