offended by the term 'Wench'

[Qwertyuiopasd]

Exactly! Ha, I actually had to look that up on the wikipedias, 'cause I was like "what's so bad about scunt?"

[VinZ]

So 'Piresse' as an alternative would not be acceptable, since it is not mentioned in Scipture, right?

[daftbeaker]

Which is why the idea of auto-censoring certain words seems silly to me, but that's a whole other topic...

You have no idea how much trouble automatic content control causes for people who live or work in Scunthorpe...

I didn't realise this until it was pointed out to me but the village I used to live in has a similar problem. Lightwater looks so nice until it's pointed out

[gronank]

So 'Piresse' as an alternative would not be acceptable, since it is not mentioned in Scipture, right?

Not because it is not mentioned in Scripture as much as it is not a word (I know, I googled it). But we have flimsy moral standards so we don't care.

[DavidH]

Surely the etymology, no matter how suspect, isn't what makes it offensive but rather the common use and intent? I can't recall the last time I heard someone denigrating women by calling them wenches.

Quite right, but etymology is fun! I keep trying to get the message across: study historical linguistics and learn all about rude words!

Bet you didn't know that the bird called a white-ear was originally 'white-arse', which describes it. The name later got gradually modified.

Here's another one: the word shit is closely related to shoot, shed and sheath.

Hours of scatalogical humour in the privacy of your own home, using just the Oxford English Dictionary and a knowledge of Grimm's Law.

[daftbeaker]

Hours of scatalogical humour in the privacy of your own home, using just the Oxford English Dictionary and a knowledge of Grimm's Law.

If you haven't read Mother Tongue by Bill Bryson I'd recommend it.

[Qwertyuiopasd]

So 'Piresse' as an alternative would not be acceptable, since it is not mentioned in Scipture, right?

This may be true, but not without loopholes. The Loose canon is, of course, scripture. But we also write-*ahem* translate and compile ancient scrolls. So perhaps you will "discover" something on the subject of wenches and the word "piresse" in some ancient scroll, and we'll include it in the 2nd edition of the Loose Canon. I mean, anything could happen.

[Tigger_the_Wing]

Or 'Piratrix'

[Arkaeon]

Since slang and nicknames often turns technical meanings on their head, applying "wench" to an adult woman (in an affectionate way or self-attributed) suggests she has the "energy level and attractiveness" of a vivacious young woman.

Of course, if someone will ignore the obvious colloquial usage of a word and prefers a 700-year etymology to order to find a reason to be offended, they're going to be an annoyance on all accounts anyway. The whole "wench" thing is clearly a party-slang for the tongue-in-check romanticized pirate re-enactment faction of CotFSM, not used in serious discussion. I'm going to assume the original inquirer didn't understand how that worked, seeing as many "alternative" churches are as full of self-important hysteria as the mainstream ones. If she's really that far gone to be offended, I'll do my best to comply. If they turn out to have no sense of humor in general, I'll taunt them mercilessly.

Reading a few posts by Nef Yoo Blackbeard or Calico Jack should give all the frame of reference anyone needs to get the spirit of the place.

We could have had a lot more fun with this thread if it were in RR&M.

[DavidH]

Of course, if someone will ignore the obvious colloquial usage of a word and prefers a 700-year etymology to order to find a reason to be offended, they're going to be an annoyance on all accounts anyway

Whoa there, you're well off the mark. I don't object to the word at all, and if I did, as a trained linguistic historian I know much better than to object to a word because of older meanings. All I did was to quote the etymology - maybe irrelevantly, but that's the way my mind works. Then I laughingly pointed out to Bart that the derivation I quoted ties it to a Primitive Germanic root which I have always considered to be the origin of wank, although most authorities state that the etymology of wank is unknown.

And BTW the derivation quoted also ties in to wink, if that pleases anyone better.

[DavidH]

Of course, if someone will ignore the obvious colloquial usage of a word and prefers a 700-year etymology to order to find a reason to be offended, they're going to be an annoyance on all accounts anyway

Whoa there, you're well off the mark. I don't object to the word at all, and if I did, as a trained linguistic historian I know much better than to object to a word because of older meanings. All I did was to quote the etymology - maybe irrelevantly, but that's the way my mind works. Then I laughingly pointed out to Bart that the derivation I quoted ties it to a Primitive Germanic root which I have always considered to be the origin of wank, although most authorities state that the etymology of wank is unknown.

EDIT: Damn! Another double post. Sorry, folks.
Not an echo, Tig, just my senile fumbling.

[Tigger_the_Wing]

Is there an echo in here?

[Tigger_the_Wing]

Is there an echo in here?

[Arkaeon]

Um, DavidH, no offense, but I wasn't even talking about you. I was talking about a theoretical non-specific prospective member. Your etymology was fun and drew out a couple good jokes (dare I say "gags"?). You don't strike me as a "she" in any case. I read the part where YOU weren't offended by the "wench" slang already. I do actually read these threads before posting. I read the entire Spam War before posting in it, which took 9 hours. How nutty is that?

[DavidH]

OK, sorry! Shake!

I admit that my fascination with etymology has always led to my boring the pants off everybody by dragging in derivations here, there and everywhere. So I'll do a bit more now.

I've found a few more on the same Primitive Germanic root: wind, went (originally past tense of wend, causative of wind), also winch. Also, that Germanic branch springs off a much earlier root that also gives things like Latin ventus, "wind"! I'd not considered before that wench is one small branch of one of those ancient, spreading trees that go back to Primitive Indo-European in the Stone Age. A noble word, one to be proud of.