Moderator: All Things Mods
Moe Sunkist wrote:I am all for being your troll. But of course we dont call Christians names in here, do we, gents... i mean mateys?
As i am tired and cannot read all of this info in one day and absorb it, i would greatly like to inform you that should there be a specific series of questions that you wish to ask a devout follower of Christ, i am open for the intelligent conversation you so thirst for.
But specifically to Tigger the Wing, if he/she is still here, how can you be a Christian who has tolerance for others. Not trying to sound boorish here, but to throw around Bible verses(and she IS a Christian so she shouldnt mind) remember that verse, in John 14:6 Jesus says "I am the Way the Truth and the Life. No one can come to the Father except through Me." Not very tolerant and open-minded sounding to me.
I love you and I pray in Jesus's perfect name
Your Humble Servant Moe
ET, the Extra Terrestrial wrote:Hey, Tig, I have a gigantic bible from about 1870 or so. If I have time later today I'll look up that passage and we can see how much it evolved (HA!) over the intervening century.
Tigger_the_Wing wrote:Otherwise believe because of the works themselves. Amen, amen I say to you, he who believes in me, the works that I do he also shall do; and greater than these shall he do, because I am going to the Father
how can one have no tolerance for others but call oneself a Christian?
Moe Sunkist wrote: I can look at the intricate pattern found in the seeds of a sunflower. But i do not think that the beautiful pattern is do to a better survival rate. How is this explained then? God.
Why is it that the number of petals in a flower is often one of the following numbers: 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34 or 55? For example, the lily has three petals, buttercups have five of them, the chicory has 21 of them, the daisy has often 34 or 55 petals, etc. Furthermore, when one observes the heads of sunflowers, one notices two series of curves, one winding in one sense and one in another; the number of spirals not being the same in each sense. Why is the number of spirals in general either 21 and 34, either 34 and 55, either 55 and 89, or 89 and 144? The same for pinecones : why do they have either 8 spirals from one side and 13 from the other, or either 5 spirals from one side and 8 from the other? Finally, why is the number of diagonals of a pineapple also 8 in one direction and 13 in the other?
Are these numbers the product of chance? No! They all belong to the Fibonacci sequence: 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34, 55, 89, 144, etc. (where each number is obtained from the sum of the two preceding). A more abstract way of putting it is that the Fibonacci numbers fn are given by the formula f1 = 1, f2 = 2, f3 = 3, f4 = 5 and generally f n+2 = fn+1 + fn . For a long time, it had been noticed that these numbers were important in nature, but only relatively recently that one understands why. It is a question of efficiency during the growth process of plants (see below).
Plant species implant scales (pine cone), seeds (sunflower)... on a spiral by creating an object every 137,5...°. These objects are then laid-out in arcs of spirals oriented in the two directions; the numbers of arcs (in the two directions) are two consecutive numbers of the Fibonacci's sequence.
The golden angle above corresponds to the division of the circle into two arcs with lengths proportional to 1 and φ: a/1 = b/φ = (a+b)/(1+φ) = 2π/φ² rad or 360°/φ².
The same happens in many seed and flower heads in nature. The reason seems to be that this arrangement forms an optimal packing of the seeds so that, no matter how large the seed head, they are uniformly packed at any stage, all the seeds being the same size, no crowding in the centre and not too sparse at the edges.
The spirals are patterns that the eye sees, "curvier" spirals appearing near the centre, flatter spirals (and more of them) appearing the farther out we go.
So the number of spirals we see, in either direction, is different for larger flower heads than for small. On a large flower head, we see more spirals further out than we do near the centre. The numbers of spirals in each direction are (almost always) neighbouring Fibonacci numbers!
Moe Sunkist wrote:..And dont get me wrong, i will not be tolerant of anyone other than those with a relationship with Christ, but i respect them and love them with all of my heart. Even, especially, those who haev such a hatred of Jesus and God...
..I am also tired of typing at this point and am glad for conversation. I will try to be respectful to agruements presented. And I find it amusing about the debates from Baptists, Methodist, CoC, DoC, Pentacostals, and all the other "denominations." Whatever happened to the idea of being ONE body of Christ, as in ONE church.
Moe Sunkist wrote:...However, I disagree that the Bible is the only source of God's proof. I can look at the intricate pattern found in the seeds of a sunflower. But i do not think that the beautiful pattern is do to a better survival rate. How is this explained then? God. What about lightning? A random flow of electrons caused by friction between clouds that seeks for the quickest route to depolarization? I dont think that happens naturally without the orders of God.
daftbeaker wrote:But if I stop bugging you I'll have to go back to arguing with Qwerty about whether beauty is truth and precisely what we both mean by 'purple'
Moe Sunkist wrote:First I apologizes on the troll comment, for i didnt know exactly what it meant in that it had an Internet slang definition. I am not so terrible pompous as to never admit i didnt know something or that i am never wrong. In fact, i will confess the opposite: I know very little, too little to even be engaging in such debate, and as a result I might be wrong about such things that i speak. What i do say is a matter of my own heart, and, after saying such, i shall continue.
I do have a problem primarily in the wording of your first statement:how can one have no tolerance for others but call oneself a Christian?
I dont like Christians on the whole. "Christians" are people who have religion. They go to church, they sing praises, pay their tithes, and all that jazz. In that light, yes, i am a Christian. But. i cannot stand those Christians who call themselves after the name of my Savior and not have a relationship with Jesus. It is hypocracy in the highest to me. So i do not even have tolerance for all christians.
Moe Sunkist wrote:And dont get me wrong, i will not be tolerant of anyone other than those with a relationship with Christ, but i respect them and love them with all of my heart. Even, especially, those who haev such a hatred of Jesus and God.
Moe Sunkist wrote:I also agree with you in that I do not know how God shall reach anyone. In fact, if you believe that the FSM sent his son down to die for man, that the son of the FSM hung on a cross to forgive all of mankinds sins, then hey, I will indeed see you in Heaven. You have just heard the story and changed the appearance and name of Jesus. It is the concept of God, Yahweh, Jehovah, Allah, or the FSM loving you so very much that he would sacrifice himself to let us be with him, then you have grasped the concept of the Truth.
Moe Sunkist wrote:I do not see your point in the bigger bible verse. Not saying anything against you but im not good in picking up sublties, and in my opinion, the longer it is, the better evidence. So could you be a little more clear on what you are saying? (Not trying to be spiteful in any way shape or form)
Moe Sunkist wrote:To Catholicism... they place the Pope as the way to heaven, not Christ. The Pope is above no man, and he is no closer to God than I am. In my opinion of course.
Moe Sunkist wrote:I am also tired of typing at this point and am glad for conversation. I will try to be respectful to agruements presented. And I find it amusing about the debates from Baptists, Methodist, CoC, DoC, Pentacostals, and all the other "denominations." Whatever happened to the idea of being ONE body of Christ, as in ONE church.
Your Humble Servant Moe