I wrote the Open Letter sometime around January of 2005 and posted it online several months later after receiving no reply from the Kansas School Board. Within days of posting it online, the letter became an internet phenomenon, generating tens of thousands of visits each day, as well as personal responses from the school board members themselves. To date (August 2006), the venganza website has received upwards of 350 million hits, and somewhere in the proximity of 15 million unique visits. This website operates on a dedicated server and uses 600 – 800 GB/month in bandwidth. I’ve received over 15,000 emails in response to the letter.
The letter, after being blogged heavily for months, was printed in several large newspapers, including the New York Times, the Washington Post, the Chicago Sun Times, and many others. The newspaper articles caught the attention of book publishers, and at one point there were six publishers interested in getting the Word of the Flying Spaghetti Monster out to the public. In the end, the Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster was released by Random House in March of 2006.
It’s now been over a year since the FSM phenomenon started. I hope that a year from now we will be recognized as a legitimate religious organization, with all the same benefits *and tax loopholes* that the mainstream religions enjoy.
Please leave me a comment on the Letter, the FSM movement as a whole, or whatever you like. Thanks,
-Bobby
I’m doing my Piratey Part for Global Warming.
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Spread the Word!
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All hail the Noodly Appendage
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Having a pirate-themed party this year.
Ramen
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this is the truth!!!! I hail the ghetti monster
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what about cd pirates i they must not count
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I repent my sins and look onward to an eternal life under the watchful appendage of pirate god
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I am an ambassador of teh PLanet Strange. I would like to inform you of the great joy that fills our planet. We have recently decided to adopt a religion here, as we had none before now. The leading candidate for this position was pastafarianism, and I am pleased to announce that the vote was unanimous among each and every Strangian. We are now all proud members of the Chruch of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
Ramen.
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It is with great joy in my heart that I announce my immediate coversion to Flying Spaghetti Monsterism.
Ramen.
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Sure! Why not? Makes as much sense as the “Theory” of Evolution!
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Good work! Thank you!
I used to point out the possible existence of the giant dragon hiding on the far side of the moon, but I never writ it up.
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Upon reading this, you have my full support. I’m off to buy an eyepatch and a wooden leg. And, the Gospel, of course.
Ramen.
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Hey, I’m from Germany (so please ignore language misstakes) and I’ve just stumbled across your amazing site… I’ve found some stuff about the fsm earlier on wikipedia, but I’ve only now realized that this is actually a new church:) I just wanted to assure you of my support for your new but obviously true belives, personally I used to belive that the erarth was created as the result of a competion who could make the biggest pizza in the big italian resaurant somewere in space. This belive resulted out of the fact that the earth is flat and only varies on the top side just like a pizza. I’ve eaven managed to prove scintifically by various experiments how life evolved on this big pizza we call earth (I carefully stored a pice of pizza under my sofa, gave it some time… and voila there was life) but now I’ve extensivly read and reaserched about the fsm I had to change my religion an become a fsm believer…
so thank you for opening my eys…
MfG
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I am appauled at the absurd response of Christians discussing the matter of Pastafarianism. I think it is a very clever way to belittle the arguments of the Kansas School Board, and also a way to show the author(and Creator’s opinion.) Why shouldn’t the Lord be a Spaghetti Monster? More to the point, HOW WOULD YOU KNOW? Finally, where might I purchase full pirate regalia? I am getting mighty sick of Christians forcing their religion down my throat.
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RAmen
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I was trying to send my 16% monthly tithing, composed of spaghetti – with meatballs, of course, pizza, fish (and fish bones) and tomato juice to the cauldron of abyss but every time I tried, I ended up eating them. I hope the divine monster would not send his wrath of forks upon me.
Please have Gideon International, or a similar outfit, mass distribute the GOSPEL according to the most prolific FSM pirate prophets so that the good and not so good news would be propagated like spam email.
I (burp) thank you. RAmen.
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I LOVE YOU!! tahst all I have to say, thats is the simply most beutifully written letter, and so, you now have my LOVe, of course not in teh romantic, sense, but whatever….I love you never the less.
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You are truly a brilliant man, and a king amongst prophets. However, I am currently distressed. I am currently a pastafarian, however my wife is catholic. I’ve agreed to have our child baptized, so long as it is done in meatsauce and the service is performed by Johnny Depp in full regalia. Is that particularly blasphemous? Will our great lord forgive me this trespassing? Should I avoid having this done in a church so as not to offend the FSM? I was also wondering which the FSM prefers, Del Monte, or Newman’s Own? I don’t wish to offend him, or ruin the baptism. If it doesn’t make a difference, I prefer Newman’s myself. I look forward to your response wise and venerable leader.
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I believe the baptism is kosher (yes, the religious cross is intentional), but the ceremony must be performed on a pirate ship…in full regalia, in order to not offend His Noodly Greatness.
Ramen
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Now I’m a fairly tolerant person, but to be brutally honest the sado-masochistic imagery of your god-child nailed to a plank, whilst mildly arousing, is not really enough to pull the followers of the one true god to your den of lies. If I believed in a “hell”, as you carpenty enthusiasts put it, I would condemn you to burn in it for eternity for your lies.
Ask yourself, Pennhigh – if that is indeed your real name and not merely another deceipt – what kind of god does not place pirates above all others? There work to combat environmental damage clearly denotes a level of understanding of his noodliness above all others. To think otherwise is both outrageous and absurb.
I call shennanigans on this one, Pennhigh and I think you should take your so called god and stick it in your sanctimonious bumhole.
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Speaking as someone who is from Kansas and also as a person who has faith(although not sure in what)I find your letter clever, well written, and thought provoking.
I will point out, however, that just earlier this year in Pennsylvania a case was brought before Federal court in which several parents were outraged at a school who handed out pamphlets about so-called “intelligent design theory” and filed suit against the school and school board. The FEDERAL court ruled in favor of the parents saying that the “theory” of “intelligent design” was based soley on faith and not on scientific evidence and therefore could not be taught in a school by reason of the separation of church and state amendments laid down in the UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION.
Matters of Faith are just that and have their place….in a house of faith(cathedral, sinigogue, church, temple). That place is NOT the science classroom. Science is an institution based on FACT. Faith is an institution based on THEOLOGY. Newton’s faith did not make an apple all on his head. Einstein’s faith did not help him come up with relativity. The space station was not built on faith. I know what you are thinking now “God made the apple fall!” or “Christ gave Einstein the theory of relativity.” To that I say that I feel sorry for you. You have so blindly fallen into your faith that there will be no doubt in your mind that you are right. You will pick my response here apart pointing out all of my logical flaws and hypocracy. To that I say… WARS have begun for less than that. FACT is one of the most bloodiest wars was fought over faith(The Crusades). FACT is some believe we are fighting a war like that one now(on terrorism).
My closing argument is this: The Theory of Evolution has behind it many proven facts. The Theory of Intelligent Design has behind it religious dogma and faith. Looking at that reasoning as the judge in Pennsylvania did my view becomes clear.
KEEP YOUR INTELLIGENT DESIGN AND YOUR FAITH OUT OF THE SCHOOLS AND IN THE CHURCH WHERE IT BELONGS.
LEAVE THE SCIENCE IN THE CLASSROOM AND THE LAB.
Or maybe we should just not teach anything at all and be dumber for it.
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RAmen.
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I must say, even though I don’t trully believe in your religion, I can point out it’s more “logical” (there’s no such word to express what I mean to say) than most religions, even more than Christianism. Why do I say this? Because it DOESN’T STATES THAT IT’S GOD IS THE ONLY UNIQUE ONE AND THAT OTHERS SUCK, it leaves place to chances. And I love chances. Thanks, I’m a maths addict. Anyhow, to any christian guy out there, I’ll love to say this on your faces, but as you can see, I’m pretty much limited: How can you asure the Christian or whatever religion’s God is the real one? How can you be called by Him taking into account YOU said you CANNOT prove it exists, and It is only fed up by your unfinishing faith?
PD= I’d laugh if a christian said God talked to Him and tomorrow the Flying Spagetti Monster appears in the TV saying It is the only God out there. Really, I’d make a book about that.
Ramen.
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Hi all
i’m really happy to see how the tolerance full fill the mind of the Cristhians ;-).
That’s the problem with faith, it is not possible to build a discussion around faith, it as to be accepted as is. And the need of peoples having faith to save (or burn) the others that does not, could be the problem.
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ADD FAITH AND ECONOMIC INTEREST AND YOU’LL GET A DANGEROUS MIX
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In response to Brianna’s post: “I’m fairly certain that you don’t yourself believe we were created by a flying Spaghetti Monster (considering both spaghetti and the idea of monsters are both products of man’s creativity and imagination),”.
Considering what you said, the idea of gods are too products (or byproducts I might say) of the man’s creativity and imagination. Furthermore, I don’t see a reason in your thoughts not to believe that noodles and monsters pre-existed humanity, and as all gods, were found and worshiped at some point onwards in the human history. Manifestations of early noodly appendages date back to B.C. 5000, providing proof that the FSM is the first and only real god, pre-dating yours and most others’ gods.
Also, His noodly divinity keeps us FSM believers united in a single, monolithic, and true body of religion, in contrast with virtually all other religions which at least once in their history have experiences a schism and formed other branches. Christianity alone (just a random example) has over 700 branches, all having contradicting beliefs, even contradicting the role of Jesus Christ.
In conclusion, my point is, you create religions on what you want and suits you to believe, whereas we base our beliefs on what is true and what’s not. It was our choice to believe in His noodly appendage, and you’ll never see some of us believing in Flying Tagliatelle/Pappardelle/Fettuccine Monsters.
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In a word – FABULOUS!! I bow down to you and your (and now mine as well) god – the Flying Spaghetti Monster. May the sauce be with you…
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I heart you….
but it all makes sense now!
why else would every culture dig pasta and noodly-ness?
why else would sphagetti and meatballs be so damn tasty?
why aren’t I having sphagetti for dinner?!
I’m spreading the word! my friends, my co-workers, my boyfriend!
all will worship his graceful noodlyness!!
…
…
…
is it blasphemy to say god bless the flying sphagetti monster?
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Personally I think it is really weird how you people think that the universe was really created by the Flying Spaghetti Monster just because in the Gopspel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster it says that the Flying Spaghetti Monster created everything! Just because there is a book that says that he created everything does not mean that it is true!
See, God really created the universe. I have proof! It SAYS SO in the Bible. So it must be true. Get it?
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I just wanted to be the first to comment today.
May the FSM bless all who believe.
Ramen
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At last I find the one place where my affirmations of faith are truly held in esteem.
Thou art my god Flying Spaghetti Monster, and mayst His Noodly Appendage guide me.
RAmen
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All hail his noodly appendage.
I am a proud pastafarian, and so are all my friends. I would never talk to someone who was so stupid to believe in all of the fake religions out there -cough-.
ALL HAIL FSM!~
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i have spoke to the allmighty fsm and it said with a booming voice send me 14.95 and i will heal you,forgive you of all your wrong doings plus a free one of a kind bleesed tee shirt .
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I am from Barcelona (Spain), sorry for my deficient english.
I have seen the light, and now I am a proud pastafarian. :D
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Geona, while I agree with all your points, this bit made me laugh:
“Here’s a cold fact. Europeans hate us. Yes, part of it comes from old grudges, nationalism, yearning for the days when their countries were number one or two, sheer jealousy of our wealth, scope and influence.”
That attitude is yet another reason why Europeans dislike Americans. Oh and I have some bad news for you, its not just Europeans, its basically the entire planet.
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All hail his thick and chunky sauce!
Ramen
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Oh dear me, open up that can of worms!! I am a pandeist, can we also teach pandeism– that there was a God who created the Universe by becoming the Universe, leaving nothing of God? Can we teach Last Thursdayism, that the universe was created last Thursday, and everything that appears to the contrary (even our memories of last Wednesday) is God’s illusion to trick us?
//// Pacific PanDeist
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I so love reading every one of the posts here. That people think religion should not be in school, that science should not be in religion… dang, one begat the other… but which came first, the religious chicken or the scientific egg? Who knows, but both sure taste good!!!
Long live the Flying Spaghetti Monster, may his noodles be of rice so those of us with sensitivities to the wheat demons may partake of his goodness!!
RAmen!
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Brilliant, man, brilliant =). In one day, you have done what 21 years of Christians could not do: convert me. All hail the Flying Spaghetti Monster!
PS – To all you Christian nuts who left comments, you really aren’t helping your image at all. May you know the Grace of the Flying Spaghetti Monster’s Noodly Appendage, that you may not be subject to the Lake of Fiery Garlic Breath.
RAmen
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I am Australian, and, though I was disappointed that you had to write the letter, I was pleased to find your letter and learn of the interest it generated in the USA: it gives me hope that the US is not too far down the path which Geona fears.
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Let us pray.
Oh holy Noodliphant, may thy spaghettishness squirm through the minds of the disbelievers! OH HOLY NOODLIPHANT, forgive them for they know not that only ketchup can purify their ignorant vains! They know not that only YOUR meatballs entwined by your shiny Appendage can carry the message and embodiment of TRUE ETERNITY! Please oh Noodliphant, let us forgive them! Semen.
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You are the greatest man who ever lived! Finally I can see the truth!!!
And some idiotic christians should be enlightened!!!
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SPREAD THE WORD, BROTHER BOBBY!!!
MAY HIS NOODLY APPENDEGES EMBRACE ME WITH HIS LOVE FOR ALL OF ETERNITY,
RAMEN
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All hail the noodly appendage!!!
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I know you get a lot of emails claiming that you are against religion or whatnot, but your arguments don’t support those claims. It seems you’re interested in keeping science in the science class. While I have no problem with the theory of Intelligent Design, I do have a problem with it being taught as science. It abandones the scientific method. As such, it can’t possibly constitute a science of any kind. It’s a theoretical proposal that bases itself in an absence of evidence. To be science, it must base itself in the presence of evidence. If someone so wishes to teach ID in a science class, then they should be willing to teach FSMism as well, and likewise to teach German in an English class, and to teach political theory in a math class. You have my full support! Besides, it’s more fun to pillage and plunder and get drunk than to sit in church listening to a man talk about not doing this or not doing that in a mono-tone voice.
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Arg, I think this young lad has it in the Gospel Truth! Me mateys and I support this lad in his mission to enlighten the wee tykes to our peaceful ways. Long live Captain Mosey! HUZZAH! HUZZAH!
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Interesting, Ryan, your argument against intelligent design being taught… It’s what philosophers refer to as a “straw man” fallacy. That is where you paint an incorrct picture of your opponent’s position and proceed to argue against this “fake” position. The problem is that you are not arguing against the actual position of your opponent at all. First of all, I would inform you that there is plenty of evidence for a young-earth creation. Geological studies of the grand canyon and niagara falls, biological studies of mitochindrial DNA, paleontology, etc… I could write an encyclopedia on all the specifics, so check out some resources like answersingenesis.org. They have articles on all sorts of topics, many of which include very detailed scientific evidence for young-earth creation. Second, I would draw down your ill-founded notion that (macro)evolution theory is based upon any vestige of evidence or experimentation at all. It is not shown by any form of the scientific method, but rather by pure speculation. It kind of SEEMS like science IF you walk into the laboratory assuming evolution to be true, but beginning with major assumptions is not a part of the scientific method. So, for macrevolution (the kind required to turn amoebae into people) to be given scientific evidence, someone somewhere has got to prove, using the scientific method, that some new feature arose by changes in DNA over time. You simply will not find this supposed evidence. No scientist has ever seen any new feature arise in any creature. They are always after the “missing link”… If you look at the proposed constructs of what evolved from what, you will see that absolutely NONE of these creatures are “linked” in the way you would expect if they had arisen by gradual change. Now, what they use in textbooks to support macroevolution is called microevolution. No reasonably informed person would reject microevolution.. you can see it in dog breeds and such. However, microevolution is merely a redistribution of already-present genetic information (i.e. dog breeds again if you study it, no new genetic info). It dows not show any NEW genetic info, a MASSIVE amount of which is needed to account for evolution. The only other supposed “evidence” for evolution is basically that many animals looks kind of similar and have similar bone structures (note that the differences ares still significant enough not to be accounted for by microevolution). So the “argument” for evolution based on “science” is “they look kind of similar, this system kind of makes sense if you think about it with a lot of assumptions and don’t examine the evidence.” All sorts of so-called evolutionary “proofs” can be shown not to support thair claims… many even dis-prove evolution (ref. irreducible complexity). Evolution, in a sense, requires more faith in man’s opinion (not science) than creation does in God. If evolution, then, is good enough to be taught in classrooms, so is intelligent design.
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i can see that this is a joke, and very funny to show us how crazy one persons beleafes can seem to some one eles
but i think it as gotten way out of hand when you sale a book and other stuff
but nice to see that you can make money off of anything
just think of the pet rock, some one made a lot of money off of that too and it was just as dumn
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Yarr, you spelled midget wrong!
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Does anyone know the exact limit of lines allowable in a comment before it becomes too long to read? PennHigh and WB and even Geona all might have very interesting things to say but in fact when a comment is over 15 lines long it is skipped by 90% of readers coming along. Now, studies show that when a blog entry is divided up by blank lines, then the total readable number of lines increases to 25. Interesting.
All Hail His Noodly Appendageness!
Ramen!!
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To Nathaniel… You do have a point about the Pet Rock, and how people can make money off really stupid things. More power to them, I say. I never bought a Pet Rock, but I’d buy some FSM merchandise just for fun and to do my part to get in the way of right-wing crackpots insinuating their version of reality into my children’s education. If Bobby makes money, good for him. He deserves it for being so silly and clever at the same time.
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I wouldn’t want to be you when you stand before God.
If you are right, and evolution is the only answer, then we will all just be dirt-food when we die. But if you are wrong, and the intelligent design people are right and there is a God, then you’ll be in a tough spot.
By the way, did you ever read what the Kansas School Board had proposed? It doesn’t sound like it from your letter.
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Great site and keep up the good work!
@WB – You say that intelligent design is supported by things such as mitochondrial DNA, but you fail (or decide not) to acknowlegde that mitochondria being present in cells today is a proof in favor of evoution. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondria#Origin
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Not that wikipedia is the best or most reliable source…but the problem, California Boy, is not whether or not we believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster, but that you are so closed minded that you think that God _had_ to create the Earth in the fallacious way delineated by Intelligent Design.
Rather than let rot the gray matter between your ears, use it, to think, to explore, to understand just _what_ the Evolutionists think, and why they think it, and pray to the god you worship to come to an understanding and peace of the knowledge S/He has helped us learn and the hints at his marvelous works.
Have you seen what reasonable, thinking people have done in Kansas? http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,,-5989687,00.html
It doesn’t sound like it from your posts. This is what happened: Conservative Republicans who pushed anti-evolution standards back into Kansas schools last year have lost control of the state Board of Education once again.
What does this mean? That we’re not teaching pseudo-science in the classroom.
Be ye Touched.
RAmen.
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What unbelievable replies from the Christian blasphemers! Their concepts of how science works could not be more flawed.
The ironies are nearly as delicious as the pasta we celebrate.
I love the post by Nathanial, complaining about the gall of our church for daring to sell items that promote our beliefs.
I suppose instead we should try to fear our followers into sending us money like the ‘real’ religions do on TV every sunday morning? Now there’s a true crime if there ever was one.
No one has ever killed in the name of the FSM, or claimed that the FSM is on our side before sending troops into battle against cultures with other beliefs.
Such a shame that the followers of the great pacifist Christ can’t say that.
May your noodles be warm and firm, and your balls saucy and meaty.
Ramen.
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What has happened to the Schools? I thought schools were about Reading, (W)Righting and (A)Rithmatic.. and they were houses of “Learing” why are all the groups trying to push an agenda one way or another.. Why not actually TEACH something have more educated children that can read and write and let them make those types of choices for themselves.. NOT push anything on them one way or another in the house of LEARNING…..
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WB wrote: “You simply will not find this supposed evidence.”
This is a sign of panic. Notice, also, the arrogant tone. I hope this individual is not a science teacher. Attention WB – science is all about finding evidence, NOT your ‘don’t bother looking cuz it’s not there’ bullshit. I’ve heard of other people affected in a negative way by reading long, baseless posts, like the one by WB, and it almost happened to me. Bless you FSM, for nudging my elbow with your noodly appendage, and aiding in my response.
RAmen.
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You are a true genius, I will now become a pirate a fight global warming. Aaaarrr!
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Finally, someone understands what I was talking about. “War” has been translated incorrectly for too long. The piece I wrote was called “The Art of the Spaghetti Fight,”.
Much more fun. Much less blood.
The beginning of my text, with proper translation in CAPS should thus read as follows:
“The art of THE SPAGHETTI FIGHT (not “war”)is of vital importance to the PLATE (not “State”). Silly Translators.
His Divine Sauciness has allowed me to return to you that I might correct this error via your “internet” (we refer to it as the INTER-PLATE) in the tomatoey hereafter.
I must now return to the glorious fields of pesto and parmesan — Black Beard and I have a Euchre game at 8:00.
P.S. look into “The Dread Pirate Roberts” — big time Pastafarian prophet that one. Great at Charades.
Noodle on.
S.T.
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Brad: the information presented on wiki concerning origins and mitochondria is generally accepted by evolutionists… However, if you actually ask scientific questions (i.e. how did they find out this information?), as opposed to accepting it merely because some scientists say it is so, you will see that it is pure speculation. Basically, the theory (and it is just a theory) that mitochondira were originally earlier life forms is very similar to several other supposed evolutionary links in that it kind of seems to make sense at first due to certain similarites IF you assume that evolution is true. A whole myriad of biological theories have come about this way (ref. “Gap/mutation theory”, which is basically a response to the fact that evolution isn’t supported by the fossil record). However, if you don’t assume evolution, you will see that the evolution can’t really explain mitochondrial origins. A great many staunch evolutionists even the theory about mitchondira given on wiki… I wouldn’t use wiki alone as my source of such info, btw…
“humanity”: straw men and ad hominems will not get you anywhere in a reasonable discussion. I never said one should not look for evidence… I welcome anyone to search the whole universe for evidence on origins, I merely challenge them to do so with an open mind, rather than with naturalistic assumptions.
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Fewer pirates? I think that’s the fallacy of the global warming argument. Please consider a recount. We have lots of pirates – only now they wear suits and plunder through the stock market, drug and weapons trade, war contracts, etc.
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I was an atheist. Everyone got annoyed when I spent hours trying to convince them that there could be no ‘god’, but now I’ve seen the light of his noodlyness! Now I can spend the days trying to convert people!
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My experience:
First i thought this is just some stupid joke. I thought there’s no way some spaghetti with meat balls could have created everything *sigh*, its just doesn’t add up! What a childish idea.
But just for the fun of it I looked at the evidence, read discussions and expert opinions. My world changed. I became a believer.
I challenge everyone laughing or mocking at FSM to study its secrets before passing judgement. Or just go to some local pastafarian meeting to discuss about your beliefs, exceptations and pasta sauces.
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As a Flying Spaghetti Monsterist,
Touched by His Noodlely Appendage,
I woke up this morning
Looked around for my shoes
That’s when I knew I’d had
A string-cheese incident
Only the strange remain when the FSM returns!
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WB, my argument wasn’t a straw man argument. Remembe, science deals only with the natural. My argument is based on Intelligent design vs. evolution being the main point of education. Personally, I don’t care if evolution is taught, but the theory of evolution was brought about in a scientific manner, and so long as it is taught as a theory, not as a fact, then it’s still got scientific merit. Intelligent Design bases its argument on there being a God, something that cannot be prove. Intelligent Design is a theory, but not a scientific theory. It’s a religious theory. Now, if you want to go with the young-earth as science, that’s fine by me, because that’s based on science. You’re suggestion that I committed a straw man fallacy is erronious because I didn’t claim that evolution is science fact, or that it has been proven. Evolution is a theory, a scientific theory, that explains a lot. However, it does not explain everything. It does leave holes. That doesn’t mean evolution is wrong, just that we don’t know everything we’d like to know. However, the science community has done studies, they’ve found fossiles, they’ve researched and researched. Evolution is a scientific theory. So is the young-earth theory. That’s science. But when you bring an intelligent designer into the process, that abandones science. I said I have no problem with ID being taught in a theology class, but I do have a problem with it being taught in a science class. Now, if science proves evolution false, then evolution will no longer be a scientific theory. If science proves it true, then evolution will become scientific fact. But I did not propose teaching evolution as scientific fact, either. Did I? Nope. In fact, this is exactly what I said: “While I have no problem with the theory of Intelligent Design, I do have a problem with it being taught as science. It abandones the scientific method. As such, it can’t possibly constitute a science of any kind. It’s a theoretical proposal that bases itself in an absence of evidence. To be science, it must base itself in the presence of evidence.” You then argued about a young-earth as a counter to my point. But young-earth theory doesn’t necessarily imply an intelligent designer. Unless you’re committing a logical fallacy, of course, but you wouldn’t do that, because you said yourself that fallacies aren’t good. And your second point, that evolution isn’t founded by any scientific method, is crazy. A problem was posed. A solution pro-posed. A hypothesis generated. And studies/tests done (these include fossiles, how you can say that fossiles aren’t evidence I’ll never understand). It doesn’t necessarily mean they have to be correct, but as long as they’re done, and the same results repeated from other scientists, then the theory is valid. So far, that seems to be the case. Now, we’re finding evidence that the earth may be younger than suspected. Fine. But that doesn’t imply an intelligent designer, nor does a “missing link” in evolution theory prove an intelligent designer. That’s the difference between intelligent design and evolution. We don’t have to prove that evolution is a fact, only that it follows the scientific method, and so far it has. We don’t have to prove ID false, or fact, only that it does or doesn’t follow the scientific method. And since you can’t test God, you can’t scientifically study ID. That makes it completely impossible. Remember, science is not exact or perfect, so we’re not looking for exact or perfect here, we’re only looking to see if it meets the requirements. Evolution theory has thus far, ID hasn’t.
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Ramen.
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I think pillaging is now in order… along with beer. Lots and lots of beer… and pillaging and plunder.
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Great.
from now on I will belief in the FSM. Everything makes sense. This MUST be the truth.
RAmen.
Ingmar, Germany
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I want to tell you, that I have information and evidence, that the FSM has left a big stone in Croatia on which are written all rules humans have to obey. I know it absolutely sure because I dreamed about it, or let us say, i hat a vision. It was so clear that I felt like my head was a videorecorder who is recording any thing. Now the problem is, that I don´t know exactly where the place I have seen is, but I am sure that it must be in Croatia because there where some drunken Policeman walking around. I think we should now find some people for searching this stone, because it has all answers we are looking for. And, as far as i know, if you carry it three times around a field the ones who carry it, die. Please write me an E Mail for telling me, what is to do. I am sure, the FSM is leading us in a very special direction. Ramen and Smalleluja
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WB, just a question here… are you just that determined to be dense? Are you so scared that your religeon may be wrong that you cannot accept scientific FACT? I have spoken with many scientists (read PhD, and a couple of double PhD’s) and had them explain evidence THEY THEMSELVES have helped to provide the scientific community. The fact that mitochondria have their own dna, that they are symbiotic with our own cells is only ONE piece of evidence that they were once their own creatures.
If evolution does not exist, as you seem to want to insist, then explain what happened in the 1500’s when the bubonic plague was sweeping through europe. We have found a SINGLE GENERATION MUTATION.. that is, in a period of a few months, a change in genetics to provide protection against this disease. We have found that those exposed to the AIDS virus who have never gotten it (but should have) had ancestors on both maternal and paternal sides who had this genetic mutation. Those who got sick with AIDS but have gone into a remission (been found mostly or completely clear of the virus) had ancestors on EITHER the maternal or paternal side with this mutation.
How can you or anyone say that evolution does not happen? This evidence only serves to further prove out evolution. How much farther is it to leap from a disease prevention to other mutations (adaptations to environment) to help our survival? The ONLY “missing link” we have is in a step from Homo Erectus to Homo Sapiens… until then, the genetic mutations are clear, and easy to follow.
Please actually learn those facts you so tout, and get in touch with the noodly reality.
All Hail His Kind and Loving Noodliness, and the Sauce within which He dwells!
RAmen!!
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Oh… also… (Taken from a rant of 2 The Ranting Gryphon…) If you say that religeon is scientific enough to study ion science class, then you have to admit that science is religeous enough to teach in church!!
One statement is as logical as the other.
Also… pasta is godly.
YarrrrRAmen!!
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Betty – I hear you, and agree to a degree, however these dudes aren’t realy what His Noodlyness would call a bona fide pirate – they are a pale imitation. Lets face it these dudes are more like comparing a vulture to a bald eagle. Anyway I believe as much as we cannot know His mind that the FSM approves of the classical pirate concept as a matter of style rather than content. I mean the Catatonics have the market cornered on cross dressing and child molesting etc. Also speaking as a marketer it is essential to brand your product in an easily identifiable packaging to attract the target market. I believe that FSM in his infinate wisdom has realised the fallability of the creatures that he hath wrought and has given us the pirate as a means to focus our faith. And finaly – if we don’t He gets angry – possibly the most compelling argument.
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ups…sorry(( not correct topic i’m too drunk… I’m st01en zasrancheg…
fcuk
,,
sorry arain
P.S. st01en – lox
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Since early childhood, I have always believed in the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, I just couldn’t put a name to it. Imagine my relief when I realised that: not only am I not alone in my beliefs, but there’s already a group of like-minded believers, spreading the Spaghetti Monster’s good word.
My only concern is that we need to take it up a notch, to establish religious unity, to weaken opposition to the COFSM and a little economic support wouldn’t hurt either.
Let’s fire up the Spaghetti Inquisition.
Yours in inquistive mood,
Cony Dragon member of The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster – Irish Chapter.
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The best evidence that I have observed to date that Intelligent Design is actually religion disguised as science is the fact that the only Christian literalists with an axe to grind have made any postings in support of the “science” of Intelligent Design. Honestly, my Christian God was clever enough to create a universe in which physics, chemistry, geology, and yes, biology could function in a logical and systematic way. It makes no sense, then, that this same God would go about “planting” artifacts throughout our earth in order to trick and mislead humanity. What a sick God that would be.
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Dear Bobby,
Your letter touched me and I can see that you are a Believer. I believe your should vote for me. I will let you teach whatever you want.
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I’m not against teaching evolution in the classroom, but I am against teaching lies. Most of what is taught has been proven false years ago. Look into it! There is no evidence to support anything but microevolution.
People have been duped into thinking evolution is science. Science is the observation. Evolution is an interpretation of the observation. So is intelligent design.
Check out Kent Hovind’s videos on creation and evolution. http://www.drdino.com
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what in the f*** are u guys talking about this has got to be the dumbest peice of s*** that i have ever herd!! this isnt science its a religon, and a religon of nonsense. A spegetti monster HAHAHAHHA WTF???? r u serious!!?!? this is almost as dumb as that scientology bull****….you guys need jesus
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Until yesterday, I labeled myself a staunch atheist and true believer in evolution.
However, while in a fit of anger at the christian professor of the “Intro to Philosophy” class that I am being forced to take, I began researching ways to refute my professor’s insistence that evolution is “in for a hard time” since so many scientists (his own son included!) are finding intelligent design difficult to dispute. In the course of my online search, I found this site.
I realize now that this was simply His Noodlyness appearing to me and waking me up to His reality. According to my “professor’s” text book (that, incidentally, he wrote himself) I had a “second-order mystical experience” yesterday when I stumbled upon the Gospel of the FSM. It was as though I had been in a deep sleep for my whole life and suddenly I am awakened. I realize now that there is only One True Noodly Master and that He is good. I am ready to spread the word of His Loving Appendage to everyone that I encounter.
I believe I will begin with my philosophy “professor” first.
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I have unfortunatley discovered some of affiliate Pirates, of an off-shute of Davie Jones global, not wearing there eye-patches. I feel these heretics should be forced to walk the plank. I have the promise of 50 ships to go round up these swarthy sea erchins, just send word via the crow and we’ll shove off fore long.
Yo Ho Ho,
PB
CEO Pirates Int.
CC:
Jolly Roger/V.P. 3 Sheets to the Wind, Inc.
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This is the best laugh I’ve had in ages! Thanks a lot.
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Betty, the pirates you are talking about are a different type of pirate. As they don’t wear the official Pirate uniform, they don’t count as real pirates.
I’m sure this is covered somewhere else.
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Why can’t we (you Christians) just get along (cliche? Yes, very! Hail, World Peace!)? Wasn’t the point of being a Christian to be accepting of others? Until Christians can get it together, I’m hoping I will be allowed to bask in His wonderful tomato-y presence and be touched by his noodly appendage!!
RAmen!
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I actually did dream of a similar monster in 2000 & later posted it on 8/05 on a msgboard/dreamthread. It was jailed in another dimension long ago, but the end of its tail caught in the door and was blown to bits that peppered the globe. Each bit was then used to influence nearby dreaming minds to ferry it to a stockpile under the guise of taking a vacation. The monster’s power increased the more bits were gathered. Free, it resembled a flying upsidedown turtleshell, tentacles spilling over the side that snatched fleeing humans, severing them in mid-air. So you have the FSM and I have The Vacation Monster.
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I used to beleve in sit-in-a-cornerism wherein I would sit in a corner in the shade and think of things, but recently I can only think of the sauceyness of the great spaghetti monster, and the way he guides my life without me even knowing with his noodley appendage. You have another belever. right now im a pirate in mind but not in body. I hope that the FSM grants me piracy and general noodleyness.
Ramen.
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I have heard from very reliable sources about NASA’s new theory. They claim that the planet Mars looks a lot like a giant meat ball and therefore it must be a monument for the great FSM possibly built by intergalactic federation. Once the theory is proved there will be no more doubt that Pastafarianism is the oldest religion on Earth and has believers all over Universe. It would also prove that FSM is way more cool than Allah, Budha, Jesus and all the other holly dudes put together.
RAmen!
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I recently read a post which said that we coulnd’t seriously believe that we were created by the Flying Spaghetti Monster because the ideas of monsters and spaghetti are man made, and so they started existing after the creation of mankind.
But this leaves out one important point: There are many people who believe that everything we feel are only memories of our soul, which it gathered in former lives. This is called “Anamnesis” (or something), so why shoulnd’t it be possible, that in the process of our creation by the FSM the first ever real memory in our souls was “spaghetti”? And with the speed, in which the Gospel spreads around the world, it seems that there are tons of people who recall this noodly memories.
That makes it logical to assume that it’s all about spaghetti since the beginning.
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Arrrrrr, It is with poisoned intellect finding me self in the quandary of dismay over thar simpley written idea of a greater power or Father that has too chosen me to be in this existence, but also, has chosen a turbulent path for me that I may not stray from for fear of His wrath upon me and my vessel. I can also call this literary Slavery.
May the Flying Spaghetti Monster grant you fair winds, following seas, and a bountiful treasure both here and in the afterlife.
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Someone wrote in a local newpaper under the opinions that if Christians want schools to teach Intelligent Design, it would be only fair for Scientists to teach Evolution in Church. I think that is a realistic proposition–but we both know the fundamentalists won’t go for it.
I cannot understand why people are so terribly threatened by a THEORY that has no relevance to actual FAITH. Regardless whether “god” created the world or some accident occured, one’s faith need not be reduced. If it is, I would seriously question the strength of that person’s said convictions. Why do the two have to be mutually exclusive?
I think the FSM is the answer to this rift! May HE WHO HAS NOODLY APPENDAGES heal the chasm between those who “believe” and those who “deduce”.
Very creative satire.
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On behalf of Pirates everywhere, thanks for raising awareness of our problem. Arrrggg
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I know there has been some tension between us ninjas and pirates in the past, but I would just like to make a peace offering on behalf of my ninja brethren and say ‘thank you’ for this wildly creative and valid belief system that you have founded. It is an honor to call myself a pastafarian ninja!
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zach
Sep 21st, 2006 at 12:05 pm
what in the f*** are u guys talking about this has got to be the dumbest peice of s*** that i have ever herd!! this isnt science its a religon, and a religon of nonsense. A spegetti monster HAHAHAHHA WTF???? r u serious!!?!? this is almost as dumb as that scientology bull****….you guys need jesus
I think that this guy needs to meet an able english professor.
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Ukulele Ninja- I hope this is the beginning of a strong alliance, and may we train Ninja Pirates in the future!
Bansayarr!
I strongly hope we become a real established religion, and with some more stuff (Sargoth-Kuul, the avatar of FSM someone spoke of! PLUSHIES!)
If I ever get famous, I will spend my money on the homeless and a well-deserved temple to us all here in Sweden. RAmen!
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Womderfully fantastic,I went onto google looking For personal belive and somethink to belive in other then the fact that i am so attractive (not a view shared by all) and stumble across this brilliant spaghetti God of yours. I love the idea and reasoning you have, also i may help to stop global warming by enlisting people as pirates as i agree with your stats (you can proove anything with a graph). I NEED TO KNOW WHERE CAN I WORSHIP THIS PASTA LORD. GOOD LUCK IN THE FUTURE ENJOY :-)
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(Quoting Kate)
Science is the observation. Evolution is an interpretation of the observation. So is intelligent design.
To Kate:
Intelligent design is a theory expounded on the basis that the creation of certain species follows an intelligent designation instead of an undirected process such as natural selection.
Hmm.
Basically its saying that something “intelligent” formed it, because the design itself is intelligent.
Hmm.
Problem with that is the very foundation of this theory i.e. an intelligent being existing somewhere out there is scientifically impossible to prove. In simple language, this so-called scientific theory is just saying “Hey, this is really really cool. Someone really cool must have done this.”
Please.
Thats not science. Thats a guess. Like when I look at the sky and guess that clouds must be made out of cotton candy because its all soft and poofy.
To Zach:
You are a big potty mouth. Good Christians dont swear, even type-swearing shielded by ***-es. And youre making a bad name for Christians, because you sound like a dumb fuck.
At least get your freakin’ spelling right.
The fact that youre angry about the wrong issues (i.e. in our fanatical worship for His Noodleyness) shows that you, my friend, have been left behind in the evolution process.
Do you even have thumbs?
Repent O ignorant one, or we will send our mighty pirate ships TO DESTROY YOU!
ALL HAIL HIS LORDSHIP, THE MIGHTY ONE, KING OF FILLING CARBOHYDRATES.
Ramen.
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Truly the prophet has spoken through you!
Joy unto man that this BLESSED revelation has been made known!
HOLY OF HOLIES, let man rejoice.
PASTA reigns and is known and is loved by man.
Let us strike our special parts with wet noodles.
Let us service the mighty one.
Lay down with Lasagna!
Cry out for Linguini to come within like a ram.
Holy HOLY HOLY…
Where do I sent my money?
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I was Christened a Catholic but found it hard to repent in my early teenage years so converted to Islam. This I found a little harsh so tried a spot of Judaism for 3 years during my mid twenties, not particularly keen on the head wear I took up the Hare Krishna thingy for a couple of months before regressing into a Mormon. Alas the lack of booze forced me to become a Hindu which I practiced until I heard the calling of Satan…. But all that blood and torture was not for me so I abandoned it all and became Atheist. That was until 1 hour ago – I’ve found it after 29 years on this planet all hail his Noodleyness…
Don’t you think it’s a bit strange that all these religions believe they’re “the one”? Open your eyes and look around, stand on you own 2 feet (an other similar clichés), learn to think for yourself FSM is the way forward….
Aye Aye
Paulo
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This is the best site ever…I’m forwarding to all my friends. By the way…talk like a pirate day was really cold in Arkansas.
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RAmen, people. RAmen.
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Absolutely delightful!! Whether it is proved true or not, it bears thought.
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Its come to my attention that a great number of individuals consider the existence of a greater being than themselves. Im not here to argue that, but rather the existence of the deity designated as the “Christian God”. After carefully reviewing the “facts” (Not just the bible, but other such tomes) its completely beond me how any person could possibly, assuming they have some sort of scientific know-how (highschool education), accept this massacre of physics and old english as the proprietor of the universe. The following are my reasons;
1. The bible defines God as an omnicient and omnipresent entity. This is impossible, as if he where so defined, he would know all that would ever happen. He would also be able to do or change anything. If this where true, God would know every thing thgat would happen, but be able to change it, then causing his predictions to be incorrect. I.E, this is a paradox. There is a comparable non-metaphysical component to this, such as “Can God create a rock so big that He himself could not lift it?”
2.It is impossible for god to be the creater of the universe for to reasons. One is that to creat an infinite universe, you would need an amount of energy greater than infinity, which, needless to say, isnt possible. The second reason is that If God where indeed alone in the realm of existence prior to the creation of the universe, he would have no reason to create the universe. This may seem like a phsycological reason, but it is in fact a proveable thing, see “The cause and effect theory”.
3.God is perfect. God also created man in his image. Man is imperfect, however. Therefore, God is imperfect and thus disproves himself.
4.If we do in fact have free will, this contridics the idea that God is omnicient. This is because he would already know everything thats going to happen, in so saying we could not have any choices.
5. A more meta-physical theory would be the “Problem of Evil” in relation to an omnipotent and omnibenovolent diety. This one would take a really long time to explain, so just google it.
6. Fossiles combined with “The origin of species” strongly conflict with the explanation the bible gives of creation.
Most of these arent really theories (exept number five) and are all comonly accepted as proveable. If you have anything to add, for the existence of God or against, I strongly encourage you to post.
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you all retards
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We need to spread the pasta gospel. I think we should set up a broadcast network similar to the other religious broadcasters and solicit money to convert the ignorant.
The network and affiliates would of course be unlicensed. And what do we call unlicensed broadcasters? …….!
His noodleyness is wise.
I would like to submit my application to be the program director of the flag ship station WIIR. (pronounced of course “Aye-Aye-Arrrgh”).
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Pastafarians Unite! RAmen! …end of line.
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Our Spaghetti monster
who art cooked al dente
oregano is thy friend
thy taste sweet with red wine
On with parmejan, on with parmesan
Give us bread with olive oil and a nice balsamic
lead us not into stale bread, but give us a nice baker
so we can have yummy food with lots of garlic
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Firstly I would like to congratulate you on bringing this brilliant alternative theory to the attention of the Kansas School Board and other institutions who falsely promote the Christian “Intelligent Design” theory or the blasphemous “evolution” theory.
Unfortunately, detailed research – which is far too complex and convoluted for me to go into detail here – has led me to conclude that your assertion that the universe was created by a Flying Spaghetti Monster is not completely correct. Although He does appear to have created the universe, it is in fact a widespread conspiracy across many, many galaxies that has invented the Flying Spaghetti Monster as a front for their own evil doings.
Essentially this conspiracy is a mixture of aliens, pirates and members of the Rothschild/Illuminati/Priory of Sion/British Royal Family/Mormon/Welsh sects, who have disguised themselves as lizards, been beamed down to our planet and implanted mind-control chips in the brains of Pastafarians. These mind-control chips cause the deluded belief that the Flying Spaghetti Monster created the universe, while in fact the Flying Spaghetti Monster is nothing more than a bowl of ordinary spaghetti, found on the floor of a kitchen in Rome in AD54, painted by a short-sighted artist, and found on the walls of a cave occupied by a little-known civilisation credited with the invention of democracy, AM radios, the electric hammer, red wine, pyramids and chocolate buttons.
The conspiracy has infested you! But it is not too late. BELIEVE in the evil lizard-alien-Royal-Welsh-pirate conspirators, and they will be forced to leave you alone and concentrate their evil doings on some other planet (which, by the way, are all occupied by hyper-intelligent talking dogs named Patrick).
May you break free from the chains of mind control.
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I am wondering if this is someone who is being quite serious, or whether they are completely joking. I’m confused…..
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OK, I should be allowed to get in on the action here…
I have promulgated a Unified Field Theory Diagram that I think links all that exists in one nifty model. It consists of a tetra-torroidal convection cell. Yeah, that’s right all that exists can be said to function in relation to everything else in the fashion of that model.
So I wonder, why didn’t anyone ask me how everything is supposed to work? You know, it always happens that way nobody ever asks me anything…
Lindsey
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Hello fellow pastafarians. I myself am a christian, BUT, i fully support the FSM. I feel I have been touched by his noodly appendage.
I think we should all come up with a FSM chant/cheer of some sort. Who’s with me?
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Find mortgage rates in USA, check [url=http://mortgageratesetc.googlepages.com/current.html][b]Current Mortgage Rates[/b][/url]
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ps-i so talked like a Pirate on Talk Like a Pirate Day.
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I lost hope in this world until I was touched by His Noodly Appendage. Now I believe I have the will to go on! Can I get a RAmen?
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Certainly makes more sense than the christian “Intelligent Design”
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DID YOU KNOW:
The evil forces of christians are out to steal poor teenager’s souls!
.
Last year, upon celebrating the end of my high schooling in the age old method of getting completly and totally drunk for a straight week, something horrendous happened.
Christians came. They tried to convert us poor drunk teenagers, first by luring us to their evil devil maws with red jelly frogs, than spouting their religion as the one true faith.
.
Thankfully, the FSM was with me that week, and i managed to rebuff their horrendous claims, but i shall need help to continue the fight. I call on all true pastafarians, around the world, to take a bundle of FSM flyers to wherever they celebrate their end of school break, and should you encounter a christian conversion squad, oppose them with the great noodley argument.
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West will teach ID with christ
East will teach ID with allah
The next big war will be against West v East reg who did ID – c or a?
This is stupid… no one fights on Helens of Troys anymore :(
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Dear FSM, our greatest noodle
I give my whole world to you
I put my head in your hands…
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RAmen… RAmeeen… RAaammmeeen!
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I commit myself to the FSM culture!
I shall now be known as a faithful Pastafarian B)
ALL HAIL THE FLYING SPAGHETTI MONSTER
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I have awoken from a stupor, the spaghetti monster is evil, he is full of gluten and will reek his dietary attack until the gluten intolerant rise and crown the true Gluten Free God!!!
MILLET MARLENE
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Just today I was touched by His noodley appendage! Finally, I have something to believe in.
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You did a great serivice to your God, whoever it may be.
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It is a sorry reflection on our system of education that so few people recognize a reductio ad absurdam when they see it.
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Thank you very much for this great initiative! You have my full support and I just want to say that I respect very much what you are doing.
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I love the diagram! This is hilarious.
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this isn’t hillarious. It’s very truthful.
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He makes more sense than other intellegent design theories, perhaps my rational atheism will become belief in the spagheti monster.
At least this belief does not fly planes into buildings full of innocent people or set bombs on the underground in my home city.
Peter. London.
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I don’t know why religious types are getting upset here. I mean… the site is attacking ID, not Christian Faith. And they’re not the same thing, right?
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ALL HAIL HIS HOLY NOODLENESS!!!!
RAMEN!
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Oh ye of too much faith..
Yes Christ lived and died and was an example to us all…
but have you not yet figured it out that organised religeon is all about controlling you.
I’m amazed that anyone has to actually ask (about the FSM) ” this is a joke…right?” Of course it is. The FSM is just as valid as Jehovah, Yaweh, Allah or any other unseeable, unknowable (in the scientific sense) deity who’s priesthood requires you to believe without proof.
“Throw away your psychological crutches, pick up thy rational bed and walk into the 21st Century for Christ’s sake!”
I may go to hell (if there is one) but I’ll see you all there.
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Yes, see you in hell, Dolmio, it that’s your real name. I relish the prospect of hell! Give me hell, I’ll take it! I am so evil as to deserve it. Let’s see: Family man? Check. Kind to strangers and small animals? Check(except gerbils) Believes Jesus to be the saviour? NOOOOO! Okay, burn in hell for a really long time. Then more. And more. Done yet? No, bastard, burn some more. Just burn me with onions and garlic with a little butter, that’s all I ask. Bullshit on your hell, I’m going to FSM heaven. Onions, garlic, and butter go better with beer and strippers!
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Right on. Hell sounds like loads more fun then christian heaven. (and FSM heaven just owns them all.)
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Wow!!You are my new hero!!
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Arghh, First Mate Mike, be this more te yer likin’ ? Can anyone answer me infernal eternal question? Why is the Christian God male? What in the world does that matter?
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Ahhh! But is He? The vast majority of His priesthood is, but once upon a time, pre old testament, worship of the deity was controlled by females. perhaps The Deity is an hermaphrodite… though why such a being would require sex organs and reproductive capability is beyond me. Does the spirit enter Mary and impregnate her or his non noodly appendage?
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Good questions, Cap’n and Dolmio. Strangley, I have an easier time accepting a male pasta dish as my chosen Deity than accepting a human male (i.e. Jesus). He has meatballs, so he really has to be male. Even though I’ve always had a major beef (no pun intended, but I’ll go with it) with the Christian God’s gender, I’ll happily worship His Noodliness. Although, and this might be too much for this forum, I once had a dream where I had to choose between Jesus and Satan after meeting them and spending time alone with each one. Interestingly, Satan was rather a hornball, whereas Jesus was gentle and kind, wanting to commune only with my soul. I guess I chose Jesus in the dream. I don’t want to analyze that one, I’ll tell you. Thank Noodliness for the FSM. Now, I suppose, I can admire all of those qualities in one convenient Deity. That is not to say that I think I’ll be somehow interacting personally “in the Biblical sense” with the FSM. That would be rather, well, kinky.
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Did Adam have a belly button? If he did, why?
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I thing Pastafarianism and all other religions should be discussed in all American schools, because I think education is about learning to think and you can’t think properly with half the subjects verboten.
Maybe teaching more world history and geography and all American teachers taking a sabbattical in a non-western country would help too.
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Hey Bobby,
The FSM has reached Germany and I really have to say that the Story of the FSM seems more logical to me than any bible story or something.
I hope that you will go on like this.
Greetings from Germany
Ronny
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I personally think we’d all be a lot better off if Christians started concentrating on the precepts taught by Jesus rather than the rules governing a Bronze Age tribe of shepherds and goatherders.
As for evolution, it is not (as some have said in your hate mail) a fraud, but a scientific theory, which means it is tweaked as new evidence comes to light. So pit a mountain of scientific, empirical evidence against the creation myth of those same goatherders and you really have to set aside your “god-given” intellect to believe the latter. Intelligent design is an unintelligent end-run around scientific evidence, unproven and unprovable.
Finally, to those who think you will go to hell — a Christian invention, not a Jewish idea — or have ticked off this malevolent OT god, please note that it is precisely hotbeds of creationist fervor like Kansas and Oklahoma that regularly get slammed by tornadoes, and it was Pat Robertson’s airplane that got swatted out of the sky. Do you really think a god that supposedly created a trillion stars in an expanding, infinitely complex universe is so small that it would even notice what goes on here on this dust mote of a planet? Or care?
Ok, one last observation. I wonder how many of these vitriol-filled religionists realize that there were many, many early Christians who did not consider the tribal god of the Israelites a true god at all, but rather an ignorant, arrogant demiurge. The true god, they believed, was the female principle that governed the universe.
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Pastafarianism should not be taught in Science class because a careful examination of its doctrines reveals that it is actually a heinous attempt to teach Creationism in disguise. Oh my! Despite its attempts to conceal the Christian Creator behind a screen of airborne noodles, the resemblance is obvious to any impartial person who hates both. Consider, for example, the following similarities:
1) The FSM is intelligent. So is the Christian God!
2) The FSM created a mountain, trees and a midgit. Note the use of the word ‘created’, a term with roots in Creationism. Pastafarians have attempted to conceal their origins by adopting a new approach to spelling, but no-one is fooled.
3) Pastafarians claim that radiocarbon dating gives unreliable results because the FSM changes the results with his Noodly Appendage. Words like ‘Noodly’ and ‘Appendage’ make this sound like something new, but the essence of the argument is something everyone knows proponents of Intelligent Design have asserted. Repeatedly. Many times. Probably even in writing.
4) Pastafarians attempt to establish a link between pirates and global warning based on an argument that assumes correlation implies causation. This is really dumb. So are Creationists!
Pastafarians will claim that they are distinct from Creationists, and they do come up with some differences. However, these are all about irrelevant details, such as whether the Biblical account of Creation is literally true. In any case, they can’t be trusted to define their own position. We know what they’re really up to.
Regards,
Jon K
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Hi
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Thanks.
P.S. Sorry for my post in this category.
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We are missing one key aspect of a religon! As a formally trained military officer, I volunteer to begin recruting training and employing FSM warriors to impose the belief of FSM on others, or to suit our material gain.
Soldier on!
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Pastafaranism should not be taught in Science class because Science, fundamentally, is a game. It is a game with one overriding and defining rule: Let us see how far and to what extent we can explain the behaviour of the physical and material universe without invoking intelligent pasta.
Now some might see this exclusion as rather arbitrary, and might suppose that the only reason why it is a rule is that Science is culturally dominated by people who don’t like pasta. But far from it, this rule is an important and necessary principle, without which Science could not function. QED. It even has a fancy name – Methodological Apastarism – which proves the point as far as I’m concerned.
I understand your position and I respect it, I really do. But we can’t change the rules of Science. Sorry about that. At least you’re still allowed to believe it – just like you can believe any other silly primitive thing that isn’t Science.
Regards,
Jon K
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Dear FSM soldier, may I suggest that that conversion should be culinary, ie a large bowl of Spaghetti and meatballs (complete with lashings of parmesan) must be eaten by the convertee as proof of conversion.
A requirement for enlistment in the FSM army should be the ability to prepare such a dish to perfection.
Blessed be His balls. Ramen
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I’m opposed to teaching Pastafarianism as Science, but please don’t assume I hate this religion. Actually, I’m a Pastafarian. I’m also a scientist. I study the evolution of midgits.
Although I believe the FSM made mountains, trees, midgits and everything else, I think it’s very important to pretend that he didn’t, at least while I’m doing things called Science. I often say to myself: ‘While it may be true that this fossilized midgit was designed by the FSM, indeed, it may be THE midgit, nevertheless I should not consider that a possibility’. It’s easy once you get the hang of it.
I’m happy for Pastafarians to be scientists, as long as we keep our religion separate from our Science. That way, our ridiculous, outdated beliefs won’t pollute the search for truth.
RAmen
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Good stuff this.
Sincerely,
van Gogh
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Pastafaranism should not be taught in Science class because Science, fundamentally, is a game. It is a game with one overriding and defining rule: Let us see how far and to what extent we can explain the behaviour of the physical and material universe without invoking intelligent pasta.
Now some might see this exclusion as rather arbitrary, and might suppose that the only reason why it is a rule is that Science is culturally dominated by people who don’t like pasta. But far from it, this rule is an important and necessary principle, without which Science could not function. QED. It even has a fancy name – Methodological Apastarism – which proves the point as far as I’m concerned.
I understand your position and I respect it, I really do. But we can’t change the rules of Science. Sorry about that. At least you’re still allowed to believe it – just like you can believe any other silly primitive thing that isn’t Science.
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Pastafaranism should not be taught in Science class because Science, fundamentally, is a game. It is a game with one overriding and defining rule: Let us see how far and to what extent we can explain the behaviour of the physical and material universe without invoking intelligent pasta.
Now some might see this exclusion as rather arbitrary, and might suppose that the only reason why it is a rule is that Science is culturally dominated by people who don’t like pasta. But far from it, this rule is an important and necessary principle, without which Science could not function. QED. It even has a fancy name – Methodological Apastarism – which proves the point as far as I’m concerned.
I understand your position and I respect it, I really do. But we can’t change the rules of Science. Sorry about that. At least you’re still allowed to believe it – just like you can believe any other silly primitive thing that isn’t Science.
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Come on, you guys. Everyone knows there was a singularity and then it went bang (really big) and then we got infinity. Duh! Guys with calculators feeding us B.S. are way better than guys with Bibles feeding us B.S. Pastafarians? Those guys are fags! (Not that there’s anything wrong with that! What a man does with his Noodly Appendage is his business, alone.)
How about teaching “We don’t know.” How about saying, “It’s a little risky to extrapolate 200 years of information across 4 billion years.” Leave the children alone. I didn’t give a shit then, and I care even less now. Man is not famous for being correct. Mostly, he’s full of shit on all levels. This is just another reason to not get along. Anybody sick of that yet?
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His noodly appendage chose us as his messengers to really propogate the truth and the truth alone. If the faith was a joke, why esle wud it spread like wildfire and bcome such a large phenomenon? This clearly shows that the noodly appendage is with us…
Ramen
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You really are a genius.
RAmen.
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I cannot believe that there are still people who don’t seem to believe in the fSM. Thank you so much, since I read about this new religion I believe there is truth in the world.
And thank you even more for making me laugh like shit. Its great and I since I saw the movie with the FfM on the roof, hey, thats an evidence, or has some of those “creationists” ever saw god???
I hope it will spread even more, so one day it will also be taught here in Germany.
Ramen!
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I appreciate how much better this arguement is that the creationist arguement. This actually makes sense and explains why the scientists’ data is changed. If the spaghetti monster truly is invisible (which we can prove by the fact that no one has seen him/her/it) then the scientists would have no way of knowing that their data is being messed up.
Since some people don’t seem to realize this yet: this is an arguement fabricated to show the many flaws in the creationist arguement. The author is trying to emulate the arguement of the creationists except this time with a spaghetti monster to make people who use these reasons to argue for creationism realize that their reasons are faulty. If he were to use God instead of a spaghetti monster, he assumed no one would get that he is making a fake arguement (even with the pirate graph), so he included the spaghetti monster, but some people still fail to realize this. Some people are actually arguing against the exact same arguements they use for supporting creationism just because they are being used to argue for a different (obviously false) theory.
A well formulated theory relies on nothing but evidence and explains why things happen the way they do. The theory of evolution is an attempt to explain why there are all these humaniod skeletons buried around the world, why living things are so well adapted to their environments, why when the humaniod skeletons are carbon dated and put on a timeline they show a gradual change (or evolution which is another word for change), why humans and some animals have organs that aren’t used (such as the appendix), etc. The theory of creationism doesn’t address all of these. A good theory can also be tested. If a new humaniod skeleton was found, the theory of evolution could be changed. If that skeleton fell on the timeline in the expected place, the theory would be more accepted. If the skeleton fell in a completely unexpected place, the theory might be changed or even abandoned. There is no way to test the creationist theory.
This arguement for the spaghetti monster theory violates all the rules of the scientific method and then some, not because the author doesn’t know what he is talking about, but because he is trying to prove a point about the creationist arguement (which violates every rule of the scientific method and then some).
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Arrrr!
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Thanks GreenIguana for clarifying Bobby’s point. Now we are all aware that the ID community claims God changes the evidence to make things look older. I must admit, I have wondered why Michael Behe (an ID bigwig) says in his book Darwin’s Black Box that:
“I have no reason to doubt that the universe is the billions of years old that physicists say it is. Further, I find the idea of common descent (that all organisms share a common ancestor) fairly convincing, and have no particular reason to doubt it.”
However, since this contradicts what everyone knows the ID community is really saying, I have no doubt that he’s misrepresenting himself.
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Thanks GreenIguana for clarifying Bobby’s point. Now we are all aware that the ID community claims God changes the evidence to make things look older. I must admit, I have wondered why Michael Behe (an ID bigwig) says in his book Darwin’s Black Box that:
“I have no reason to doubt that the universe is the billions of years old that physicists say it is. Further, I find the idea of common descent (that all organisms share a common ancestor) fairly convincing, and have no particular reason to doubt it.”
However, since this contradicts what everyone knows the ID community is really saying, I have no doubt that he’s misrepresenting himself.
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Pastafarianism should not be taught in Science class because it is religion, and religion is based solely on faith. Science should be based solely on evidence.
Religious people aren’t interested in evidence. They don’t even try to present evidence. And if they do try… well they shouldn’t because religion should be based on faith, not evidence. By definition. Plus the evidence they present is always dodgy.
The good thing about evidence is that philosophers of Science have shown that, unlike faith, it doesn’t require any presuppositions in order to understand exactly what it implies. It is “theory neutral” as they say. I read that somewhere. Now philosophy, while it is not exactly Science, is nevertheless fairly reliable.
For example, I don’t need any presuppositions to prove that the structure of a particular molecule is just so. You might ask how I know that it is just so. I can tell you that I have made measurements and performed calculations. You might ask how I know my measurements and calculations are reliable. I can tell you that my instruments are Swiss made and my computer is running software developed by Microsoft. You might have additional questions, but the point is that, given enough time, I’d provide an infinite series of justifications, with no presuppositions required.
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What about spoons?
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And Foons.
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The Universe /ISN’T/ infinite! Most people seem to think that for some reason. The universe is really a 4D sphere. No matter what place you try to exit from, you’ll apear on the opposite side of it. We live in a 3D universe, so we can’t see the sphere. It makes a lot more sense than infinity, because that’d mean the FSM is too busy constanty creating more of the universe, that he couldn’t do anything else!
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Hi
I thing that the forum is quite useful and interesting.
G’night
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Hi all!
I thing that the forum is quite useful and interesting.
G’night
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this is so funny, especially the christian people posting things and trying to act as if they know the’real’ answer. they seriously don’t get the joke. Ramen!!
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Joke? what joke? all they don’t get is that real religions can co-exist with thiers ;D
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In a recent mail I patiently explained that Pastafarianism shouldn’t be taught in Science class because it invokes intelligent pasta. This breaks a fundamental rule of Science called Methodological Apastarism, which is practically part of the definition of Science. I’m writing now because it occurred to me that some people might question whether it is a necessary part of that definition.
Basically, I just want to stress that once someone makes a definition, it’s not OK to question the necessity of that definition, and it’s certainly not OK to suggest the definition could be broadened. That’s unscientific. By definition.
Furthermore, Science can’t operate without Methodological Apastarism. The trouble with explanations that invoke intelligent pasta is that they close the door on alternative explanations. I mean, just suppose I were to propose that midgits were created, holus bolus, by a Flying Spaghetti Monster. Then I wouldn’t be able to consider any alternative hypotheses because … well I just wouldn’t because if I suggested that I’d be a Pastafarian, and Pastafarians don’t consider alternative hypotheses. By definition.
And another thing… statements that invoke intelligent pasta are untestable. Saying otherwise is like claiming that statements that invoke God can be tested. You know, Creationists used to claim that God made the world 6000 years ago. As if you could test the age of the earth! Similarly, Creationists claimed that God specially created individual species. Again, Science has nothing to say about this. That’s why Science rejected Creationism: because it was untestable.
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Science rejected creationism because it was unprovable. It is however testable, and what empirical evidence we did have effectively disproved it… eg geological records, archaeological findings, and genetic similarities between certain species.
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Dear Aussie,
So you’re saying that Creationism can be falsified, but not proved?
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I have totally converted! Thank you for sheading the light! RAmen!
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All hail his noodleyness.
I think it’s quite a positive, to have an educational institution that wishes to incorporate not only accepted facts and theories into it’s science curriculums, but also some of the more commonly posited ‘possibilities’.
I would like to propose some alternative explanations of how Magnetic fields interact, specifically, why the the same poles to two different magnets repel each other.
Teachers should be required to explain that it is only a theory (though demonstratably plausible) that their magnetic fields interact in such a way as to cause this repulsion.
It is equally possible that the magnets do not like each other when facing that way.
It is also possible that there are invisible midgets between these magnets, and depending on your belief structure, it can be quite traumatic to force two magnets together facing the wrong way, as it may cause the untimely death of these invisible midgets.
As a pastafarian, I’ve learned that you need to not only respect the stated beliefs of others, but any potential beliefs that any other group of people may hold (stated or otherwise). I would hate to think that my playing with magnets might cause untold grief and misery in another person, who might not yet realise that they believe in invisible midgets.
Hail the benevolent FSM, and may he bless those invisible midgets with the power to continue confusing scientists by simulating complex magnetic field interactions with their tiny invisble biceps.
RAmen.
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FSM
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I think that this whole concept is really funny. Why don’t we invent a flying cow-juice monstr?
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I AM AMMUSED BY THIS WEBSITE AND HERE IS A “ROCK ON!!” TO YOU!!
~sUZZERs~
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Dear Neil,
The ID folks are not trying to gain acceptance on the grounds that ID is a mere possibility. They are much more ambitious than that. They aim to make ID an accepted theory, and they realize they can only do that with evidence and sound argument. Now maybe you think their evidence and arguments are poor, but then why not attack those? I can’t see what’s to be gained by attacking arguments they don’t use, unless it’s comic relief. And it leaves you open to the accusation that you’ve made up your mind about them without knowing what they’re saying.
However, I think it’s a fair point that Science education should focus primarily on widely accepted theories. ID won’t gain a sustainable foothold in the classroom without first convincing a substantial section of the scientific community.
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all i can say is wow maybe u can share this ridiculous story with satan when u burn in hell for eternity with him i’ll be in heaven with our lord jesus glad i dont have stand before him and tell him u believe in a spagetti monster over him lol
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Pastafarianism should not be taught in Science class because scientists don’t believe in Pastafarianism. The ones that do don’t count because they’re not very good scientists. Plus they’re in the minority. And they’re all called Steve.
The fact that other established scientific theories, such as heliocentrism, were once minority views is irrelevant. The difference is that they were right.
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Thank you, Teri, for that wonderful example of ‘don’t judge others’ and ‘love thy neighbor’. I’m sure your lord Jesus would be totally proud of you. [/sarcasm] Try working on making your posts readable and worth reading next time, kay?
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I love your letter….
Man I belive in god and everything but, In the bill of rights It says freedom of religion. And I expect everyone to obey that. Seeing how I live in kansas. I saw how Christian Faith was forced feed to everyone. I mean if a person wants to belive what he wants to belive I’m alright with that. Just so long as he/she doen’t try to push it onto me. I think that the schools need to be all in or all out. If your going to teach one religion why not teach them all??? Education is the key not one side bickering.
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YOUR ALL FUCKING STUPID IN BELIEVING THIS SHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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jesus,
it’s “you’re.” “your” is possesive, you want the contraction.
Do me a favor: grab a dictionary and look up the definition of the word “satire.” Maybe you should look into the dictionary alittle more, and build your vocabulary, because while profanity does exude intelligence, there are plenty of better ways to get your point across.
RAmen
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This first make people laugh, and then make them think.
This should get an Ig Nobel Prize
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Whilst i find most of your teachings to be most wise and informative there are some parts that i can’t conclude with,such as excepting starch transfusions therefore,iam going to establish The Church Of The Latter Day Ravioli and hope to welcome many alternative pastafarians.
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I SUGGEST ANY LIGHT READER SKIP THIS
“Dear Aussie,
So you’re saying that Creationism can be falsified, but not proved?”
-skeptic
.
No, christian, im saying that creationism can never be absolutely proved. No scientific or philosphical concept, theory or law can be absolutely proved if it applies to the real world. An example, Newton’s Laws of Gravitation work perfectly in the solar system scale, but break down on the galactic. The fact that they work on our observable scale is no definite proof, it merely reinforces the theory.
.
So, no, creationism cannot be proved. If you ever find any evidence that supports the theory earth is 6000 years old, let me know. However, i will go with the current scientific data. For example, redundant biological features, such as the appendix, similar genetic structure in primates, archaeological finds that show both human and ape features, the lake Mungo finds (human skeletons, estimated 40-60,000 years old [and please, dont go on about proving that, i said it was a theory, though its got a hell of a lot more hard data supporting it than creationism]) all support evolution.
It’s not perfect, but hey we never can be. We could have a million scientists sent back to observe this, but it will still never be a truly objective observation.
.
And as for falsified, i suppose so. It wasnt my intention to make that observation, but yes, quite easily. I could dress up in a white robe and beard, get a video of me waving my hands against a black background, then hey presto, cut to a park. If i say that was me creating the universe, I would have just falsafied creation (very, very badly, but thats not the point).
.
I however stated that it was effectively disproved. By that, I mean what data we do have STRONGLY opposes the Young Earth Theory (as one admittedly easy example). If you want an example of opposing data, there is the whole science of geology, for one.
.
Finally, if you are going to post on this board, use one alias. Using multiple names is a cheap, rude and low tactic to try and propagate your argument.
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I wish I was born with the creativity to do what you’ve done. For a school to teach a belief as fact without any sort of provable data behind it is ridiculous. Here’s a book with some words, it must be true! Fail to see how that makes sense, and the way you’ve shown the point is brilliant. There’s the same likelihood of the existence of a flying spaghetti monster as there is of the christian god, its all based on nothing more than written word. If you’re going to teach religion as fact based on books and scriptures, then why aren’t schools teaching about all religions. *ell, scientology has a book too, claiming to be fact, why isn’t that being taught in schools? New convert from agnosticism to pastifarianism
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Dear Aussie,
Thanks for your post. I agree that we can’t absolutely prove much, maybe not anything, about reality. I also agree that both the age of the earth and special creation are proposals that have been tested and falsified, within reasonable assumptions about the measurements. But you can’t on the one hand say that any claim that invokes God is untestable, and on the other that these claims about God have been tested and shown to be false. If you’re not saying that, good for you.
As for using multiple aliases, I adopted the pseudonym ‘A skeptic’ partly because of a problem with the spam filter, and partly for satirical effect. Sorry if this caused any offense, none was intended. I hope you won’t be upset if I use it again if I write any more posts in that vein.
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Will his o’holiest of noodly appendages please answer the one question that has racked poor humanities minds for years upon years.
Is it to-MAY-toe or to-MA-toe?
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As a Kansas student. I would REALLY like to see this taught in our schools.
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Digression Alert!
.
Thanks, The Aussie, for the ‘. = paragraph’ convention. Bloody useful, that is!
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You know how you sometimes get a tune stuck in your head and you can’t get rid of it?
.
And the only way you can find of displacing it is by humming another addictive tune – of your own choice?
.
But the ultimate aim is to get all the tunes out of your head so you can just get on with the business of living, and thinking?
.
I’ve been kicking The Tune out of my head for a long time. And I reckon I’ve just recently got the last traces of it pretty much ejected.
.
And then here’s the New Tune – the tune of choice – that I could have used to speed the whole process along, much, much earlier!
.
I guess I don’t need it, anymore. But all hail the Flying Spaghetti Monster for giving us something to whistle while we lay the hymns to rest.
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also, when i said effectively disproved, i am aware that i am using disproved again, after my previous argument, hence the effectively. I just couldnt think of a better word for it.
.
and J, no problemo… enjoy
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The Aussie: ta.
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i hate to break it to you “believers” but christianity is a joke, mearly a creation of human assumption. thousands of years ago people didnt know how they where created and had no understanding of how everything came to be, hence the assumption of GOD, 1 being that created all, and hates you if don’t sit in a room every sunday.
Don’t even get me started on how may leaders have started a war on the belief that they had god on their side.
religion is the fuel of war and interracial hatred
I could go on and on, but I have better things to do than waste my life on a joke such as religion
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When I become Dictator of America this will be the national religion.
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I read 15 posts and stoped. Why, it’s because from that point on I only knew that every idiot in the universe would just continue this joke. Funny at first, but not when people are foolish. I just want to post a couple of points, for beleivers (of any religion) and no-religion.
1) This is the one I need to get out there. Chrisitians do not force down our religion in your throats. You seem to have this burned into your mind. If anything it is you that forces your beleifs on us (teaching evolution in school, etc).
2) Science is NOT based on fact. I don’t care what they say, it’s soley based on man’s attempt to understand the world around him. In _fact_, scientific “laws” aren’t even laws (what I’m trying to say is they are very loose). They can be changed, and after reading those wonderful 15 posts, I find that you people have no knowledge of what you’re talking about. It appears you didn’t even bother to research or attempt to understand what you supposdely beleive in. For example (one of my personal favorites), hopefully you know what a super nova is and how it is caused. Now, if you (I’m refering to the big bang, where did this come from anyway?), had this huge ball of atoms that then supposedly somehow reacted wtih each other form the pure gravitional force, it would not, I repeat it would not, blow up but instead collaspe on itself just as a super nova. I could go on, but this point was already long.
3) You need to stop stero typing christians, I can’t stress this enough. It’s funny how people judge without no knowledge of why we do the things we do. Let me ask you this, do you honestly beleive that people would go day by day following some fake thing, living their lives by it, being tortured in some countries, without any proof or any response from this supposed God. No, we have response, we can feel him, we know, it’s something you must find for yourself, nobody else can give it to you. Of course, some dumb ass is going to post back stating that this sounds completely retarded. Once again, how would you know? Oh how wonderful, this brings up another point. “How would you know, you weren’t there when god created the earth?”; I love this question for a couple of reasons: You (the person reading this) weren’t there when evolution was taking place, so how would you know? Also, you if you ever took biology or some other course, have you ever noticed, how anything such as a simple atomic structure such as a DNA is just, we’ll simple but yet percise in how they work. How other organisms know how to “read” these strands, and act upon them. That just scratches surface (barely) of what would be possible to talk about. Everything is just too complex for something to happen by accident, this complex universe of worlds un-explored and mysteries yet to be explained.
4) How do you expect to find any proof of the exstience of god when all you do is go away from him?
We’ll, that’s about it (would really love to go on). I know my post may not be the best (let’s change that to “it’s not”, it’s 1:00 am here), and I was slighty mad when I wrote it.
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this is so fricken cool! in your face jesus freaks! in YOUR MOTHER F’N FACE! and be blessed by the noodle!
Ramen!!!!!
hahahahaahahahahaahah
one more pirate here!
aaarrrgghhhh!
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zenith,
Where to begin….Evolution is a scientific theory based on observable evidence gathered from fossils and things like that. As a scientific theory, it SHOULD be taught in SCIENCE classes. Intelligent design, which is sorely lacking in that observable evidence and cannot be called science in any way, shape or form has no business being taught in a science class. It belongs in sunday school, at home, or in a class devoted specifically to studying religion. The United States Constitution prevents an official religion from being established, so why should schools that the state pays for teach a Christian theory as science? THAT is evidence of Christians trying to force their beliefs down others’ throats.
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“Science is NOT based on fact.” Okay, um,fossils give evidence of evolution. People can see and even touch fossils. Fossils are not products of visions or blind faith. They are there, we can see them, and they are evidence. Science takes observable evidence and tests and retests everything until a thoery can be reached. Science, unlike many tenets of Christianity, is always open to questioning, testing, and change. Just because its based on facts and called truth doesnt necessarily mean science is concrete. Questioning is encouraged in science.
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As for point 3…it does sound kind of stupid to me. I was a Christian for a long time, and I felt nothing. No divine presence, no answered prayers…nothing. If you’re feeling something that helps you live a meaningful life as a good person, then that’s great for you. I am truly happy for you if that’s the case. But I felt nothing, and to be honest, I’m perfectly okay with that. I don’t want to feel anything anymore. I don’t want to “find god.” I’ve found life, and I much prefer it to worshipping and abasing myself before something that may not even be real. This leads me into point 4. I’m not searching for God. If (if he exists) he for whatever reason decides to come down and say hey, I’m real, then I’ll take that as proof and believe in God. I may not worship him, but I’ll believe. But I am not going to waste my one and only life searching for something that I honestly don’t really care to find.
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Besides, I don’t need your god. I have the FSM. May you one day be touched by His Noodly Appendage.
RAmen
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1) Okay, I can agree with that. But I should have been more clear when I stated that. I don’t feel that shouldn’t be able to teach evolution in schools, because of everything you said. But, I hate the way people use it against christians, everytime I just plainly state, it could something little (I don’t really have an example), in which it thens turn into a big argument on why I’m wrong and I’m so stupid to beleive in a god I can’t see.
2) Once again, I should have stated something more clear. I hate when people say, “I beleive in fact, not faith” or something like that. Because, it’s funny how they can just assume all this is true and not really, well, can you imagine what could happen to the “evidence” (meaning things they have found that provides proof to evolution) over millions of years (or thousands, this is one part where I’m very flexible about, because the method they used to keep track of time “back then” [e.g. adam and eve, or w/e like in your case apes [I forget the exact scientific names they have nor can I spell them]) essentially invalidating them?
3) The only reason, as you stated, you could never “find” god, is because you never really wanted to, you just had a closed heart and rejected him even then. This is your own fault. In order to “hear” god, you must listen and be patient. Which brings this up again, you can find him, as long as you want to.
4) This probably won’t happen, but it would make me really happy, if they could just atleast teach the possiblities that are wrong with evolution (the faults, etc) and why an intelligent creator may exist (this makes more sense anyway than sponges randomly getting up because they apparently needed to move).
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Why do we keep God Above us
And DOG below us
because we evolved into thinking that way
Its ok your not stupid to Believe in GOD, Just broaden you Mind Slightly, to incorperate all the othe amazing things in this universe other than the WORD, GOD.
like LOVE.
And LIFE.
And the UNKNOWN.
We only really understand .00000001 percent of what is, and thats only in respect to whats around us, Physically.
I have felt and Experianced a connection with somone who has died, I have physically felt and seen the presence of my dead grandfather within an hour of him dying on the other side of the earth, then having a phonecall from my mother 3 hours later telling me somthing i already knew.
I cant explain this, but It does proove to me Theres alot to learn.
We are here now because of the equinox of Science AND Religion, Not one or the other. BOTH.
MAN has GREAT potential, especially when he is told that he is the son of GOD and having Faith can help him move mountains.
Or Discover the cure for smallpox.
Or create the world we have today.
Its all about, Mixing it up.
A little bit of everything all at once.
hehe……………..
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@Zenith–
“The only reason, as you stated, you could never “find†god, is because you never really wanted to, you just had a closed heart and rejected him even then. This is your own fault. In order to “hear†god, you must listen and be patient. Which brings this up again, you can find him, as long as you want to.”—That’s a load of bullshit if ever I heard some. Aithiests are hardly ‘close-minded’…they’ve looked into your religion–and everyone else’s–and found it didn’t work for them. I’m not Christian because that faith does not and will never appeal to me. I’m not ‘close minded’ to the idea, it just doesn’t work for me. That whole buissness about ‘finding god’….people find different gods, people find no god, and you have no right to tell any of them that they’re wrong.(and yes, I believe in god, just not yours.)
–
WHY should they teach ID in science?! Evolution is a THEORY, meaning that the minute they start teaching it they are admitting that there’s a chance it’s wrong, but that, as of now, evidence points towards it. There is NO PROOF for ID. None. You wanna believe in it, super, but it doesn’t belong in sciemce because it’s NOT science. You can’t ever prove or disprove it.
–
““Science is NOT based on fact. ……………Yes. Yes it is. Dinosaurs are taught about in science because we can prove they once existed=fact. We have fossile evidence to prove it. That’s WHY ID isn’t taught in schools, because, like I said, it isn’t fact. Right or wrong, it can never be proven. Teach it in some philosphy class somewhere if you must. (or just keep it in your place of worship altogether.)
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Bobby Henderson:
Thank you. Thank you for this truly fantastic movement you have started. I regret that I did not discover it sooner, but I am happy to be enlightened by it now. I was formerly spellbound by the vagueries of Atheism and its evil, meritless beliefs, but now I have found the True Way of life in FSM. RAmen.
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“3) The only reason, as you stated, you could never “find†god, is because you never really wanted to, you just had a closed heart and rejected him even then. This is your own fault. In order to “hear†god, you must listen and be patient. Which brings this up again, you can find him, as long as you want to.”
.
I once did want to find god. Please don’t make that assumption about me. I was patiently listening for 16 years, and I never heard anything. My heart was open, and I wanted very badly to “find” and “hear” god, but I never did, and, after a series of extremely unfortunate events in my life that culminated in a suicide attempt, I realized that we only get one chance at life, and I didn’t need to worship anything to make it meaningful. I live for the sake of living. Life itself is my saviour. I don’t need to find anything else.
RAmen
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SCIENCEY RANT WARNING
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wow zenith, I could argue on so many points with your claims, but i’ll stick to the one in which i have the most experience.
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Firstly, I ask you to please learn some basic astrophysics before you start ragging on other people for not knowing any.
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Why? well…
1)There was no “ball of atoms” that “reacted wtih each other form the pure gravitional force” (sic) at the start, and there weren’t any atoms till quite some time after the big bang, when the universe had calmed down.
The big bang exploded outward from a point of infinite density, (a singularity).
It took a few minutes for protons and neutrons to appear. However, anything larger than hydrogen nuclei (a proton) could not form for around 700,000 years. *
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2) the four fundamental forces of the universe, gravity, electromagnetism and all that gunk, were all unified at the beginning, hence the universe did not obey the same laws as a supernova would.
The forces first split (into gravity and the strong/electro/weak at around ten to the negative 35 seconds after the big bang, then the strong force split off from the electro/weak at around 10^-29 sec, which finally separated into our last two forces at 10^-10 seconds after the big bang. That is a blooooooooody long time in particle physics.*
.
3) Well, you ask where the BB came from. We don’t know, because we dont have any form of proof (a singularity prevents us seeing before that time).
Theories exist that it was the result of a big crunch, or the collision of two multidimensional membranes, or that a giant spaghetti monster created it. They will remain theories, because we can never prove them, and they’ll stay that way because we scientists don’t make ridiculous claims unless we can prove ‘em.
We DO, however, have an extremely strong SUSPICION that either the big bang, or something effectively identical to it, happened, because what evidence we do have, such as microwave radiation still present from that time, the observed motion of the galaxies etc.
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4) at least learn what a supernova is… a bloody big bang. You seem to have it confused with a black hole.
.
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*(data from pp 1536-37 of Physics: for Scientists and Engineers with modern physics (international edition), by Serway and Jewett, 2004, but also available information online, or in several high school texts.)
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Aussie, I love it when you talk like that. Can you say “singularity” again? Ooooooohh!
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singularity ;p
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Evolution is only a theory. Why is that the only argument theists can come up with against evolution? Gravity is also only a theory, I don’t see you trying to disprove that one. Theist argument against evolution is purely misinformation, like the age old “If we evolved from monkeys, why are there still monkeys? Hyuk!” Apes and humans evolved from a COMMON ANCESTOR, humans didn’t evolve from apes. Stop spreading your lies and misinformation as fact, theists.
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I noodle therefore I am.
PS…Buy “Letter To A Christian Nation”
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What does evolution have to do with creation, anyway?
“Darwin’s proposed mechanism for evolutionary change is observed in nature. Natural selection serves as a means of conservation, not one of creation. It explains survival of a species, not arrival of a species.” (quoted from somewhere I was reading while I was on break at work)
As soon as Christians stop misunderstanding Darwinism I will feel safer about allowing them more control over my children’s education.
It would also help if more of them could spell.
Correctly.
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I had a sudden Change in Faith why worship pasta when it is really the Swimming backpack creature is realy the one responsable for all creation and is the rightful owner of the throne of our worship.HAIL THE SBC
P.S. Screw the FSM
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Wow so many points to go over :).
1) Don’t correct me once I’ve already posted a second comment clarifying what I said.
2) About the big bang, I only know what the school teaches me.
3) Once again, read my clarification. I honestly don’t beleive christians have a problem with evolution in general, as you will see that alot of christians know that the Bible does not tell everything. It’s just how they teach evolution, and then people want to get in your face and try degrade you for beleiving in something you know to be true. About the gravity, gravity itself is not a theory, only how it works/is created (hope I worded that right) since something is clearly attracting us to earths and we can see this effect on other objects in space.
4) nyx, I’d like to talk to you more on MSN or something (no not try convice you to become christian again if you ever where, people have this baptist stero type that people have stuck in their minds. In fact, the christian church as a people are changing their whole out look on how to teach based on what Jesus did. For example, I can see why people could have felt at one point that christians were forceful, but when you look back, Jesus really never went door to door, he let people come to him for those are the ones that wanted/needed it).
5) You call us close minded, but this is just a pure hypocritical statement. We’ve heard your theories, we’ve learned them, memorized them etc, but yet you seem to be the ones who want listen, who are either just to afraid of the truth or are foolish. You say god does not exist, because you can’t see him, because he’s never come down to you before. But really, do you beleive that we exist for absolutly no reason, that we exist just to exist. People may just call us hopefull, or maybe it’s because we know. Evolution goes beyond just scientific theories, it goes past boundries and directly challenges religion as a whole. You still ignore us, even though millions of people have heard and face constant ridicule everyday, but yet we still still stand strong by our god. You want proof, there is significant archeological proof as well as scientific proof that stories in the bible really happened as told (example the Exodus). This world is extremely complex, and I know for a fact man kind will never know more than what reaches the eye. For you seeing is beleiving, but for us we live on faith, the strongest sense in the world and we know he exists, his presence undeniable.
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What about people who are allergic to wheat flour and can not eat pasta as it makes them very ill? If they are allergic to your religion, what happens to them… its not their fault.
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If you are allergic to wheat, you can have rice pasta! RAmen!
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You know what’s funny about all of this.. not that someone actually came up with this idea, which is really intellgent by the way. But the fact that he said in his letter that there are more than one theory of intellegent design, and then based this theory of intellegent design (the majority of it) on the Bible. Hmmm.. what can we say then, about pasta? Creation, of the great noodle stems back to biblical theology anyway.
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as a christian should be offended, but way way too funny Ramen folks! (unfortunately my conversion may be a while in the coming as am torn between you and the eating 20 cheeseburgers a day will help you lose weight diet, oh yeah and the whole Jesus dying to forgive my sins bit which i appear to believe is true – sorry, i do love pirates though x)
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maybe your time would be better spent trying to actually do something constructive to stop ID. This is a waste of time because it is the same thing as ID. Who cares who the diety is. FSM and ID are equivalent in the eyes of science, so what have you gained here but to insult organized religion? what a waste.
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….think you’re missing the point, shai. It’s called satire, you know?
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I am from NZ and even us in this small country in the middle of nowhere have heard of the great FSM. Also all you Christians posting, calm down and stop telling us to rot in hell.
RAmen
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thinking like this is what makes things better for everyone although i myself am agnostic i support you in spirit and wish you the best in the future
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Shai – Hahahahahahahahahah peace. You have hit the nail on the head, come and join us.
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1) Everyone is writing comments in outline form! This makes it easy to just read the first line and get an idea of what is going on.
2) I like this way better than a HUGE paragraph, which, as an English major, I am comelled to find the Cliff’s Notes for. :)
3) My mom says it’s important to always number your points to make it easy to refer back to them (especially in conversation) and it makes them sound more important.
4) You guys must know my mom. Tell her I said hi.
5) As for stereotyping Christians, we’re not. They’re doing it to themselves. If you don’t like a sterotype, people, don’t perpetuate it.
6) That’s all.
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7) Oh, and we’re not insulting organized religion, we’re insulting the individual people who have felt a need to publicly express their ignorance. This makes them fair game.
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I can understand that you are atheists, that you have your own opinions, like any of us. However, I don’t think it is a good idea to use Michelangelo’s painting of the Creation, modified in this way.
You may represent God as you perceive Him, but I am not glad to see your representation. This can hardly be called “humour”, but showing bad taste and offending without any reason. I do think that it would be a better idea to respect each other and live in peace.
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Offending without any reason? Give me a break. I have plenty of reasons to offend Christians. Christians desexualized and demoted the Goddess , and tell me, a female, that I can never be as good and virtuous as she. What conclusion am I supposed to draw from that bit of wisdom? That I’m destined to be a subservient slut? That’s hardly empowering. And what about burning “witches” at the stake? Women of learning and skill at healing were persecuted and killed due to the influence of, you guessed it, Christianity. Can’t Christianity can’t handle a little bit of mockery and, FSM forbid, accountability? I feel worse about possibly offending Michelangelo’s spirit’s sensitivities. He’s probably at the stripper factory, though, and couldn’t care less.
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You guys kick ass! That’s the only way to counter the arguments of evangelicals–to ridicule and mock and deride them.
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I love how some of the ID’ers try to pick apart small holes in the wide frabric of evidence for evolution while missing this one, patently obvious, factual hole in the concept of Intelligent Design: there isn’t ANY evidence of a designer!
There’s more evidence for little green men than there is for any sort of “god”. So until you find your god’s fossilized remains at the bottom of the Kansas city conservative water well, STFU, ok?
RAmen
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Saucy,
/
Say “subservient slut” again… and arch your back a bit when you do… ;-)
/
From the book of Gemelli: “And behold, the FSM did make the first midgits. He created them two, pirate and wench. He then turned to the pirate (knowing his gender to be a little slow witted) and spake unto him. ‘pirate and wench, samey-samey, likey-likey… got it?’ From that day and ever after pirates and wenches did live as equals.”
/
RAmen.
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yar me hearties
” …This is a waste of time because it is the same thing as ID. Who cares who the diety is. FSM and ID are equivalent in the eyes of science…” shai
THATS THE POINT.
and Jack, don’t encourage her to do that, tis hard enough to concentrate as it is.
RAmen
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I fear that the exposed correlations between global warming and pirate population is nothing more than a statistical artifact. Everyone knows that correlation does not imply causation. That’s why I advise the authors to consider the fall of vynil disc production as the real cause of global warming, the lateral displacement of piracy efforts towards the CD industry being just a side effect.
Sincerely yours,
Pádua Pires
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SaucyWench,
I respect your option (feminism, I suppose) but I cannot agree with you. What has witch-burning to do with Christendom?!?!? If someone called feminism a form of extremism I am sure you would get mad, but you accuse Christendom of stake-burnings and things…
But if you and others think that offending is better than dialogue and respect that’s it.
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P.S.
I agree with you that most Christians don’t care about such websites, and that I am one of the few who try to have some dialogue with people who have sucg attitudes. But I am no longer that sure it is a good idea…
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Mick.
Witch burnings WERE carried out in the name of christendom, they were sanctioned by the church and aided and abbeted by members of the church. I appreciate it is a crime in the past, as were crusades and inquisitions (and please before anyone else gets high and mighty about their faith, look carefully they all have their crimes) so modern day members of churchs always say “but that is history”, that doesn’t happen now.
of course we don’t burn people (too often, or anywhere with cable) but at the time they looked back on their predecessors and said at least we’re not like them. Perhaps in the future churches of whatever creed will look back and say similar things about the discrimination against women, or preventing access to contraception and STD control, or the quiet acceptance of paedophiles in the clergy, ad nauseum… your own church in your neighberhood maybe doesn’t carry out these crimes. but look in africa, south america, the indian sub continent and you’ll see massacres and atrocities aplenty all in the name of your lord, funded and given legitimacy by your church. just because your not holding the machete doesn’t stop you being an accomplice.
me. i don’t believe, but i like pasta. it hasn’t murdered anyone yet.
RAmen
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Dear spider,
I hope you won’t be angry with me if I tell you that none of you mention was carried out in the name of Christendom. Christendom means, among others, the Orthodox Church, whose member I am, and who did not burn any witch, neither did it carry out any crusade, or had anything to do with the Inquisition.
You mention atrocities done by Christians (which?!) in South America, Africa and India, but do not say anything about Mother Theresa’s work and other missionaries’. To call me an accomplice of those whom you mention would be as absurd as if I called you an accomplice of Mao Tse Dong (who killed more than 50 million people) or of Stalin (also millions of victims) just because you are atheist like them. I can never agree with such black-and-white patterns on either religion or atheism.
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Mick: Get yourself a textbook. Not a Bible. A textbook.
*Witch burnings were carried out by the Christian religion. How do you think your SAINT JOAN OF ARC died? She was burned, as A WITCH, because she heard voices. Also, if you don’t want to believe that your non-Catholic denomination of Christianity had anything to do with it, what about the Church of England? (Where many of today’s Baptist-style faiths stem from, I believe… darn Pilgrims…) They beheaded people who would not convert. Beheading, burning, whatever. Entire villages in Europe were burned because one person was suspected to be a witch. In our own lovely country, the witch burnings were on a much smaller scale; but, again, a result of mysogynistic and megalomaniacal leaders of CHRISTIAN churches.
**SaucyWench’s opinion, while feminist, yes, is better categorized as the opinion, and extremely valid complaint, of the Wiccan faith. You preach it, SaucyWench!
***Yes, Mick, large amounts of people have been killed by ALL TYPES OF PEOPLE! It’s called GENOCIDE. Genocide, for any reason, and by anyone, is WRONG. It doesn’t make it any more right for it to be in the name of god.
****I used pretty *stars* instead of numbers!!!!!
*****Do not take offense, Mick, because we aren’t picking on YOU (unless you ask for it…) We are picking on the people who are fanatically obsessed with their religion enough to be intimidated by an IDEA or OPINION that differs from their own. If you’re so right, then what the hell do you care if someone doesn’t agree? If I say that my dog is a dog, and you say that she’s a cat, I may correct you once, but, if you really want to call her a cat, FINE! She won’t care, either, as long as you give her some of whatever you’re eating. It won’t hurt ME, and it won’t hurt HER for her to be mislabeled. The only one who looks like an idiot is the person calling her a cat, and the idiocy of another person is none of my business (until they’re RUDE.)
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Oh, and speaking of burning things, let’s not get started on the BOOKS that are burned by churches. Don’t tell me they don’t do it, either, for I have witnessed it with my OWN EYEBALLS! (No eye-patch, either!) A church in my area (of which a friend of mine is a member) burned the Harry Potter books because they talk about *GASP* witchcraft. As far as I’m concerned, burning a book is JUST AS TERRIBLE as burning a person. Maybe worse than burning a person, depending on who the person is.
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WHOOO. Comment 241. Way to go me. I have 241 comments!!!
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brilliant. the whole concept of intelligent design is absolute crap. ive started an fsm group at school that goes around and questions intelligent design. its pretty fun to see people’s confused faces as they try to explain why they beleive in god etc.
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Hail HIM & way to go Starbuckaneer. Just an aside re withchburning recent “real” scientific reseach, by a microbiologist based on weather patterns at the time and food staples of Salem, has suggested the possibility that people who were burned as witches were actually tripping on ergot (LSD), a mould growing on their food staple grain, which resulted in them talking in “tongues” ect. It seems that not much has changed since then, in the different ways of christian theology and scientific accessment. Poor buggas. As for FSM, it has completely dissipated my growing dispair at the religous rights determination to drag us all towards some sort of armegeden (spelling?), that most of them, in one form or another, seem to beleive is inevitable. I am particularly happy to see a growing number of believers and posters calling for congregation at our local uni.
I can’t wait. We are with you.
RAmen
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Mind you, many of the mainstream religions did have a mechanism in place which allowed gross “sin” comittment by beleivers. This was called “confession” and forgiveness of ill deeds was given on the basis that a sinner said a specific number of words a directed number of times. The mafia in particular found this quite usefu. Hmm….I wonder if you could confess to “believing” in evolution as I think you have to be forgiven. Can any christians “enlighten” me about this?
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The FSM Hymnal
Hymn # 243 Are You Washed in the Sauce of the Pasta
Have you been to sauce for the cleansing power?
Are you washed in the sauce of the pasta?
Are you fully trusting in His noodliness this hour?
Are you washed in the sauce of the pasta?
Refrain
Are you washed in the sauce,
In the soul cleansing sauce of the pasta?
Are your garments splattered? Are they stained and smeared?
Are you washed in the blood of the Lamb?
Are you walking daily by the Spaghetti Monster’s side?
Are you washed in the sauce of the pasta?
Do you rest each moment in his Noodliness?
Are you washed in the sauce of the pasta?
Refrain
When the Bridegroom cometh will your robes be red?
Are you washed in the sauce of the pasta?
Will your soul be ready for the the great Meatballs,
And be washed in the sauce of the pasta?
Refrain
Lay aside the garments that are clean and white,
And be washed in the sauce of the pasta;
There’s a fountain flowing for the soul unclean,
O be washed in the sauce of the pasta!
Refrain
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Ooops, I missed one line……Forgive me your noodliness….
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One everybody in history, based on race, religion, etc has had some point or another where did something like whitch burnings, the holocaust, I’d like to list more but my memory fails me. And to whoever posted about the women thing, if you haven’t noticed, that existed in over half of all ancient cultures (muslims which still do it today, greeks, etc). You cannot judge the people of today for things they were not there for. It’s like blaming every white person that lives today for black slavery in the untied states. Also, it’s funny how people go “there is no evidence of intelligent design”. Please look around you, do you beleive all this could have been created just because a couple of sinle celled organisms started to morph at the same time? Do you believe that all this is here for no reason? Do you beleive that everything was just here? Evolution holds no more proof than intelligent design, research. I can already tell you people are going to come back and say “z0mg look at this mathematical proof that doesn’t really do anything but prove that reactions occured in the big bang that already happen today lolooool”.
@nikkie, christans, if you truly are one and believe and have accepted jesus christ, you do not have have to confess, jesus was the ultimate scarfice. Before I go on, you may ask why was this required (the crusifiction) or plain scarificing of animals for that matter, I’m not one to explain this as I don’t have that great of knowledge in it so I fear that I’ll explain it wrong. Anyways, catholics are really the only ones who confess still (they still believe in jesus), but they do it for the sake of tradition.
@cowdude: Absolute crap. Don’t get me started. You most likely go around and pick on ones that are weak in faith. You talk to a priest or some other knowledge person and come back and tell me if you stumped them. Personally, I would refer you to my friends dad who is very good debating about this but I would need his permission first.
@Comment on sterotyping: go look up the definition of sterotyping and then comeback.
@Starbuckaneer: We aren’t offended by people’s opinion. Mature christians or every person in the world for that matter understand that not everybody will agree with you or believe what you believe. However, what we are offended by is how people use their opinions to degrade us in every possible way every chance they get (take cowdude for example). I’m suprised there aren’t like a million harrasment cases going on right now with all things I hear about in the work place and the school. Over all, I think christians would just like to be respected like everybody else and not have to go through everyday life defending themselves and their beliefs (for christ’s sake [
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Mick, How the hell am I supposed know what Christendom means? And why should I care? And yes, I am a pagan, in the sense that I do not worship any mainstream gods, or goddesses for that matter. I don’t usually use that word when I’m talking face-to-face with Christians because a) they may interpret that to mean I am a Devil worshipper, and b) that terminology will probably get in the way of whatever communication is going on. I just say, out of respect for myself and others, that I am not a Christian. I don’t talk about the FSM to two co-workers whom I think might be offended, as work is not the place for such discussions. I won’t even put a FSM symbol on my car, because it might offend them. This is because I care about these people as individuals. Please remember, I (we) did not draw first blood. The Kansas Board of Education did when they proposed teaching Intelligent Design (Christian-based, I believe) as science. I have no problem offending them, even face-to-face, if the opportunity arose.
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Zenith: Your spelling is atrocious. However, I think you will agree with me that the majority of people who are writing hate mail to this site are NOT mature christians. We aren’t going on to christian websites and sending THEM hate mail. We have our own site, if they want to send hate mail, they are going to be ridiculed. It’s fun. Look at it this way: if god made me, then god INTENTIONALLY gave me a FUCKED UP sense of humor. It’s people like us that are entertaining. If god had a choice between C-SPAN and Comedy Central, which do you think he would enjoy watching the most? Consider us the comic relief. We have a purpose. And I’ll be damned if we don’t deserve a beer volcano and a stripper factory for our creativity! (Haha, “damned.” Irony.)
**Also, the definition of stereotyping, according to the OED (I love the OED!)
Stereotype: Noun. A preconceived and over-simplified idea of the characteristics which typify a person or thing.
*I would have thought that definition did not have to be spelled out. However, I believe that when I said sterotypes should not be perpetuated, perhaps I confused some people, therefore, I will elaborate.
**Cops love doughnuts = stereotype. However, until recently, every time I passed Dunkin Donuts, there was a Sheriff’s car out front. My friend, who is a deputy in my county, informed me that a memo was sent out which stated that they could no longer park at the Dunkin Donuts because it was becoming was such a problem. I’m not kidding. If cops don’t want us to make fun of them for eating doughnuts, DON’T EAT DOUGHNUTS!
**Whatever stereotype you think we have regarding christians, is only a result of how christians have represented themselves on this page. I, personally, do not respond to stereotypes. I have learned to rise above them, and have learned to hate individuals for who they really are. It’s a beautiful thing.
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to Zenith–”do you beleive all this could have been created just because a couple of sinle celled organisms started to morph at the same time?”–You make it sound like such a crazy thing to believe in.
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just because you don’t understand those mathimatical formulas doesn’t mean they don’t mean something.
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Funny, you make it sound as if Christians are the only ones who get made fun of or unfairly lumped into one. Try being a Jew or a Wiccan and then come crying about unfair treatment. (And I’m sure you’ve gotten some, steryotypes of all kinds are wrong, but you have no right to act as if your religion is the only one that gets unfairly trashed.)
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“it’s funny how people go “there is no evidence of intelligent designâ€.”– Is there? Name some. How can you prove what god did or did not do? Simple: you can’t. God can never be proven or disproven, so a theory based on god can never be proven or disproven, so such a theory is not science, so it does not belong in SCIENCE class. Easy.
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I wonder what would happen if we DID go on their websites and write them hate mail? Although we are FAR TOO MATURE and we actually posess that rare thing called dignity… it would be pretty funny to see how they would react to it. Probably with much less humor and tolerance. Speaking of hate mail… I haven’t seen any visions of the -er- reincarnated Virgin Mary lately…
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morning me hearties,
you’re ok mick i’m not angry. i’m not going to try and condemn your soul to eternal pain and torment for the heinous crime of not agreeing with me. I can appreciate that you need to cling to this but history tends to suggest your wrong. On balance of evidence i am convinced that religion did have a major hand in witch burnings…
some examples (this took me 5 minutes to find, imagine had i taken longer! and i like the * idea so i’ll use it too)
*1326: The Church authorized the Inquisition to investigate Witchcraft and to develop “demonology,” the theory of the diabolic origin of Witchcraft. (Jenny Gibbons, “Recent developments in the study of the great European Witch hunt)
**Burning at the stake as punishment for heresy was established by the Synod of Verona in 1184 and several times reaffirmed by the Roman Catholic Church.
***(protestants aren’t exempt either)the Protestant leader Jean Calvin had no hesitation in sending his opponents to the stake, including the pioneering Spanish physician and scholar Michael Servetus, who rejected the doctrine of the Trinity.
-this is the major difference between devout people with faith (definition from dictionary.com: 2.belief that is not based on proof) and pastafarians is that we’re willing to alter our point of view based on available evidence. I accept that there are plenty of people in lots of churches that would rather not burn people for non existant crimes, just as i accept there are plenty of atheists who have committed atrocities, but this blind stubborness to accept criticism of so large an organisation is lunacy.
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Charles Darwin, a serial churchgoer was ex- communicated from his church when he published his theory of evolution. I ask again “what christian forgiveness”. What christian values. I am sorry but throughout my whole life the word hypocrosy continuously springs to mind when it comes to virtues most chriostians preach. If ID is to be taught in school then science is to be taught in your church. I put my hand up.
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As well as FSM of couse. Apologies to His Noodliness.
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Like the idea. pirates to plunder churchy goings on, much booty and wenches awaits, who’s with me on friday?
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Hey spider, what do ya call male wenches? I mean give me a name. Just to keep the balance here I am a molecular biologist in mind, but a bit partial to male wenches in body ;)
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P.S. I am particularly partial to Aussie’s posts because i) I agree and ii) I am an Aussie and iii) I thrive on thoughtful rheteric.
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Thanks nikkie…
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By the way, did anyone else pick up on Zenith’s “Untied States” typo? Considering the bible belt opinions that he expresses, maybe he was on to something?
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Annnnnyway, I want to rant at Zenith, but all the good points are taken :( … so I’ll leave you guys with this simple thought;
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If you do not like to be mocked, why do you come to a website devoted to what is fundamentally an anti-ID site, laden as it is with physicists, molecular biolegists, nanotechnologists (MEEEEE!), philosphers, devoted atheists, agnostics, free thinkers,(***breathes***) jews, pirates, wenches, wiccans and hippies,
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and claim not only that the large volume of corroborating data collected (please, dont ask me to list it all AGAIN) by those who support evolution is not only garbage, but equivalent to that existing for ID,
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try to argue that point with bad grammar, spelling, logic, and technique (personalising the argument for a start; we couldnt have cared less about your faith, before)
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AND THEN have the gall to wonder why we all argue with you, and apparently stereotype you?
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(holy mother of bleep, that is the longest single sentance if ever written!)
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I apologise for this somewhat personally directed rant, but I take the scientific method seriously. To have years of painstaking work by people who have devoted their lives to science dismissed by an inane comment and ZOMG lololol is just a little offensive.
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Now Nikkiee you seem like a good seafaring lass from a country founded by pirates, i’m reckoning a male wench should be called booty, then you can plunder for booty! I’m sure that male pirates can also plunder for booty and wenches, and pirate lass’ can also…
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this is getting most distracting, and had probably given the god fearing types another reason to claim my souls going to hell…
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After reading your letter I agree with your theory wholeheartedly and feel people should consider joining you in your beliefs. For your edifiction, in case you aren’t aware, I happen to know that there was a time when the Flying Spagetti Monster cohabitated with a Matzoh Ball in a vat of Chicken soup at the Last Supper and word has it that there was some begatting going on and a chld was produced from that union. Of course I’m not 100% sure, but I think it’s worth investigating…..don’t you?
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Spider
Thats ok (”my souls going to hell…”) we’ll all see you there ;)
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Oh and I think next “talk like a pirate day” we should all release thousands & thousands (new world record?) of little paper pirate ships (RECYCLED & BIODEGRADABLE PAPER PLEASE) into rivers, lakes, and in my own case the local creek mouth at the beach ect. We could write positive messages of pastafarinism all over them.
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Aussie: Don’t forget militant copy-editors. I can only overlook grammatical and functional errors for people who AREN’T assholes.
Nikkie: I think spider is right about calling them booty… it would give all new meaning to “booty call”
And I agree about the little pirate ships.
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I’ve just converted to FSMism. I, hereby, proclaim that there is no God but the Flying Spaghetti Monster & Noodlicius is one of his prophets. Noodlicius, ofcourse, appeared to me personally yesterday. Hence, the conversion.
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An objectivist philosopher and comic book creator (he created spider-man) Steve Ditko; had something to say about the nature of God with regards to the “teachings” of organized religion here it is:
“Psst! GOD is my Name, MIRACLES is my game. I CREATED MYSELF, made everything out of NOTHING! I’m DIVINE, OMNIPOTENT,OMNISCIENT, UNKNOWABLE! I act in MYSTERIOUS WAYS! just have FAITH in ME! Renounce your dirty physical body, but take care of MY sacred SOUL your’e using. Obey MY supreme authority, follow MY cosmic will, believe in MY heavenly kingdom, even though it is all undefineable, unprovable, and unknowable. ..it’s a divine FACT, a HOLY TRUTH! PROVE IT IS NOT! I’M RESPONSIBLE for EVERYTHING, so DON’T BLAME ME for anything that is wrong. Remember, Y’OURE THE SINNER, the guilty, the unworthy. So be HUMBLE. GIVE UP your self- interests, pleasures, and happiness. SACRIFICE, SUFFER, BE MISERABLE, and seek MY FORGIVENESS because you are TAINTED MAN. Pass on my HOLY WORD to the rest of you sinful sons of that INGRATE ADAM! Keep everyone feeling worthless, only good enough to worship ME! Make them REPENT for not being PURE in my IMPURE CREATION! It’s their fault! Keep making life on earth a LIVING HELL by denouncing reason, logic, self interest, justice, pleasure, pride and happiness. I COME FIRST! ALL must sacrifice to PLEASE ME! But, after you die, I’ll make it up to you. Then you will really enjoy LIFE…I mean DEATH.. I mean EXISTENCE..in a NON-EXISTENCE WAY! Don’t try to understand! It is one of my DIVINE MYSTERIES, JUST OBEY ME.” -Steve Ditko
And before anyone logs on “praying for my soul” or some crap, “been there, done that.” I was a Bible- thumper for years before I learned the “TRUTH”.
There is a God, but it’s not the one above, the one everyone teaches. And, as M Somerset Maugham states, “there is no payoff.”
Simply put, there is good, there is evil. You can believe it comes from God, man, a can of stuff in the back of your refrigerator, or, even a spaghetti monster.
Our choices every day dictate our fates, nothing else.
“To surrender to ignorance and call it God has always been premature, and is so today.” -Issac Asimov.
“A man’s ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death.” -A. Einstien
“Going to church makes you a Christian as much as going to McDonald’s makes you a hamburger.” – Baptist church sign.
When any organization demands you ignore PROVEN EMPIRIC EVIDENCE, demands that you denounce reason and logic in favor of that which CANNOT BE PROVEN, and refuses to allow it’s tenants to be QUESTIONED, it is no longer a CREDIBLE ORGANIZATION.
Why not a spaghetti monster? It is as easy to prove he/she/it created everything as it is a bearded white guy.
Science does not try to dictate faith, why should faith keep trying to dictate science?
People who ask no questions are easily led, as Lucretius says: “Tantum religio potuit suadere malorum – So potent was religion in persuading to evil deeds. (Lucretius)
I always come back to this: Christianity is a wonderful theology. But so is Hinduism, Shintoism, Buddhism, etc. Tolerance and acceptance are the hallmarks of any great faith. Practice what you teach, Christians, and you won’t have to be so shrill when someone pokes fun at your insecurities.
Unitam logica falsa tuam philosophiam totam suffodiant
Pax vobiscum Flying Spagetti Monster, RAmen.
P.S. There are actually 23 pirates left in the world, Yarrr!!
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*applause for scot*
RAmen
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I’m so proud to be a part of this. And I have finally found out why I have never been able to accept Jesus as my personal savior. It is, as Mick noted, that I have a “sucg” attitude. So that’s what’s been keeping me down all these years! Dang! What’s a wench to do?
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Also, Mick, I would not become angry if you said that feminism is a form of extremism. I would agree that some feminists are extreme in their beliefs, but not that feminism itself is extreme. Feminism is not a religion, by the way. My opposition to worshipping a male deity may stem from my feminist side, but the other side of me, or one of my many sides, doesn’t want to worship anyone. Maybe Trent Reznor, but that’s just my dark, wenchy side coming out. Come to think of it, I think Jesus must have been hot, if he really looked like his traditional renderings. Oh, that vein on your forehead is popping out again. You better pray to resist the temptation to go all evangelical on my misguided, never-as-virtuous-as the-Virgin-Mary, hell-bound, ass.
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morning me hearties
what did i say earlier? desist right now wench. i’m having trouble concentrating……..
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and thats a mighty fine post Scot, but i suspect there’s many more than 23 now, and we’re gaining fast.
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Hehe… now this is funny from a pagan and hobby theologist’s POV…
I like it.
You rock.
~~Strublay~~
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Hobby theologist? i hope ye don’t mean me ye bilge rat! i’ll have nothing to do with it lest i need a wire brush and bleach to clean meself with afterwards!
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If ye must know i’m a cartographer, a mariner who measures what he finds and makes (treasure) charts from them.
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Now away with ye, i be in need of grog, wenches and some superstitiously challenged whelks to annoy…
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may your plunderin be good,
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Mmm… Ramen noodles.
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About my “spelling mistakes”, have you ever heard of a typo? I’m not really going to say anything right now, since I’m a bit late on everything…
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Zenith
“I’m a bit late on everything…”
Yes I would have to agree with you there.
RAmen
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Zenith, we can see past typos. I will poke fun at typos, even my own, if given half a chance. I respect your effort at organizing your thoughts and communicating them in writing here, where your words will definitely be used against you. What I have a difficult time seeing past is people not respecting my choice to not be a Christian, and then informing me that unless I accept Jesus as my personal savior I will go to their version of Hell. I have even more of a problem with people trying to teach a poorly disguised Christian creation myth as science. I have basically been a pacifist all of my life. I was too young to protest our (USA’s) involvement in the Vietnam conflict, and I have too many adult responsibilities to do much protesting about any cause now. I do try to live my beliefs. I would fight against ID being taught in my state’s science curricula like a cornered wolverine. I would home-school my children, picket, go to meetings, and vote against it in protest. I’d even move from a town and state I love if, FSM forbid, we were to begin to have the same debate where I live. I hope you would do the same if, in your home town, the churches began preching evolution. The difference is, nobody has to go to church, but children must be educated in our society.
Congregations provide funding for churches, but the taxpayers foot the bill for public education. Again, churchgoers can choose to contribute or not. Taxes, like death, are unavoidable. Public school are not the forum for trying to further any one religion’s agenda, even if it is a popular religion. How would you feel if FSMism was to be taught to your children right along with your creation myth? You’d be a little miffed, wouldn’t you? You’d probably foam at the mouth. You keep your religion out of public education, and we’ll keep ours out. It’s that simple.
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See, even I made a typo. The thinking behind what we’re posting here is what is important, isn’t it, though? I must admit that it becomes even more difficult to respect someone’s fundamentalist rantings if they don’t have good written communication skills, or good keyboarding, or both. It’s nothing personal, but it doesn’t help the rantings at all. It’s just amusing and a little sad.
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So *this* is where all the fun is at!
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First, I want to join the queue for patting Scot on the back. That’s a hell of a post.
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Witch burning — backtracking a bit, here, but I’ve got to lend support to the Christians Burned The Witches argument, ’cos they did. In England, witchcraft was regarded as a weird sort of social or domestic issue, whereby a kind of social guilt wound up being misdirected at a few unfortunates who were accused of causing crops to fail and so forth (a belief which fitted the available evidence in a roundabout, ‘just make a few things up’, sort of way, but which had absolutely no conclusion-specific reliable evidence of its own, by the way. Sound at all familiar?). We tended to hang these ‘witches’ (which is fine, obviously). Then, the European interpretation of witchcraft arrived, which was ‘collusion with the Devil’. From this point, the whole thing became a massive, organised endeavour, in which anything which could be used as evidence of devilry (for example, a scar, birthmark or mole; or – and this is documented – possession of a clitoris) could lead very swiftly to a pyre. We burned ’em ’cause we’d decided they were against god, and we would use any damn thing we could find to prove it. We killed hundreds in one of the most painful ways we could lay our hands on. Yay us and our credulous Christian heritage.
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Zenith: Yes, you’re right, of course: we should allow for your typos. You say: ‘jesus was the ultimate scarfice’. Clearly, you mean ‘Jesus was the ultimate Scarface’. I always felt that Al Pacino’s iconic portrayal of what it means to give the whole world gangster lovin’ bore the hallmarks of divine inspiration. I expect all those terrifying announcements in Matthew’s gospel are part of the same holy message of love, acceptance and semi-automatics.
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Starbuckaneer: firstly, you posts are fantastic. Secondly: you raise a point worth serious consideration. Maybe we *should* be writing them mail…
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Sure, we peace-loving pirates (shit, I haven’t said ‘arr’ for ages) may despise confrontation (lest it be with cannon ‘n’ cutlass, arr), but there’s a very good argument growing that The Time Has Come. See, the few who come to argue with us are either willing to enter into debate, or daft. I’m not saying we should attack people, burn things or blow things up – if you’re with me on this, then that’ll be exactly the sort of behaviour you’re against – but the *argument* needs to be taken to the people who *don’t* welcome it. When someone writes palpable godish nonsense, they need to know that there are many, many people who see right through it. I think perhaps a sharpened noodle of common sense needs to penetrate every church in the realm (seven seas, world). For, FSM knows, he’s got enough.
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I’m raising this point for debate. Whaddaya all think? If this site has got us debating with those who wander past and fall in: great. Should we take the cue and go out looking for more?
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Saucy Wench, you may simply have to stop typing. You are making me want to nail together a galleon, ransack your nation and sail you away somewhere sunblasted and treasuresome for further unspecified piratical pursuits. My Piratese ain’t so good as Spider’s, but I’ve got a beard that would scare Blackbeard (he also had a beard, y’know).
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I don’t know why you had to invent a new theory of creation! Besides the shepherds’ fantsay in the Bible, there are many others… the Hindu version is pretty elaborate with life forming out of the Celestial Lotus in the Cosmic Sea.. and the Earth accoridng to Hindy legend is billions of years old. If you’re going to teach alternative ideas to evolution, you must include all relevant theories. Too bad pastafarianism will only get 5% of the time ! It seems like a lot more fun.
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PS – how could intelligent design .. FSM or otherwise… have led to George W. Bush?
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Sometimes His Noodliness partakes a little heavily at the beer volcano.
RAmen
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WHAT SHOULD KIDS LEARN ? / OMG I cant stop fingering the keyboard! LOLOL.. welllll.. the point everyone misses is, what should kids learn in school? Just the approved conclusions of orthodox science? It’s actually far more important to learn the Scientific Method.. and the values of integrity and peer review. Scientists aren’t always correct, they sometimes turn on heretics, and they have human failings.. but they believe in The Method. / Kids also need to be taught how unscientific people attack science, and how various fads and fallacies are and have been propagated as pseudo-science, e.g. Cybernetics and Homeopathy. They should learn these issues and the ID debate should be part of it. Not long ago a Lousiana legislature decreed that PI would be 3.0000 in that state. Kids should learn how that came to pass.. and how it was fought and revoked. / Finally, kids should learn that science and scientists are not infallible. No one is infallible – not even God since different believers are at each others’ throats; both sides pray to its own god and neither god knocks sense into his believers. They need to earn that the “price of learning is constant vigilance” – against blind faith.
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Gary W
“PI would be 3.0000 in that state……” What is PI?
RAmen
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PI is the ratio of a circle’s circumference to its diameter. Its value is 3.141592635…. (goes on forever) and you can’t legislate it.
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Oh math Pi. ok
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Oh my god. You bunch of Christians who spend ages on here disproving this are as sad as they get really. GET A LIFE! This is classed under “Humor”, derived from the word “Humorous” meaning funny. Not serious. A joke. Honestly. No need to go overboard saying how all of us ‘followers’ are going to hell. If you don’t like it, go read the Bible saddo’s. At least I know that my two Gods (The Lord and His Noodlyness) have something called a sence of humor. After all, you guys are all the proof we need!
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oops. RAmen
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Dear Zenith:
Ah, Buddhists generally don’t go around burning women who defy male authority figures, and Genocide seems to be a global past time of all the fantasy based belief systems (Especially when you can kill people and take their stuff/land/oil/women/gold/etc.). And for Women: well, what is a pirate to do with all this gold and gems but lavish them upon his lovely wenches?
Yes, you sure can try to judge people today for keeping the ill-got gain of the past.
Why do you think South Americans are trying to get the Catholic Church to give back their Aztec gold?
Why do you think European Hebrews are suing various banks to get back the money taken during World War II?
And now, just to be fair, wouldn’t it be nice for all you foreigners to kindly leave what you call the North and South Americas and return ALL of it back to its native people? It’s the Christian thing to do – obey the commandments! Do Not Steal.
And No, a single cell organism did not morph.
Many different cells of different species joined together to survive.
The DNA of mitochondria and chloroplasts has been sequenced and very closely matches the original bacteria they came from. So, all that is now, did indeed evolve collectively from a group of different organisms that joined together to live in harmony. People are part of Nature, a part of the Earth, not separate from it.
You can Learn all about the Endosymbiotic Theory and the Phylogenetic Tree from google.
Evolution’s only proof is the DNA thriving in every cell of every living organism. The Genetic evidence demonstrates that all of Earths creatures, animals and plants ARE One Family. One giant, global family sharing a common heritage of successful DNA code. That is Very Special – because we are not separate – we are all one big family of species living on our little blue world. We should protect that world and save some of the environment that gives us air to breath, water to drink, and food to eat.
What Fantasy Chasing Evangelical Fundamentalists are attacking is not Science, or the scientific method, what they are attempting to destroy is Reason, undermine Logic, and over-through Rational Thought with Fear and Superstition. Yes, there is more to life than can be seen, but it should not contradict the evidence of what Is seen!
Life is to be enjoyed and to be continued, where possible. Anything beyond that – is completely and totally up to you.
Life is fundamentally meaningless – it is up to you to chose what meaning you give to your life, and act upon it.
Life Exists – because it MUST exist. In a Universe such as this, when you strike the match fire burns. Heat boils water. Eggs become hard boiled. All because the Natural Laws (sometimes called God’s Laws of Nature) can not be violated.
The Natural Law is a founding principal of science and reason – that Order exists in the universe and can be understood by human thought, given enough effort to study and understand what is going on.
‘Because God Said So’ wont get you any points on a science exam!!
The same Natural Law the causes the Sun to burn brightly with fusion power is the same Natural Law driving elements together and forming living beings. ‘Empty Space’ is normality, matter is the abnormality existing in space. Entropy drives all matter back to normality, eroding all matter and energy down to formless heat. But as with other topics in physics – a force has an equal and opposite force. The Entropy Force eliminating Order and matter IS Opposed by the Orderly Force. The sun’s energy is borrowed by earth creatures to randomly alter chemicals on the planet. Chemical forms that are most stable persist. Complex chemicals actually duplicate themselves. Even more complex molecules seem to evolve into life.
Why? Because God (Natural Law) Said So! :)
That Life Force is the Orderly Force, pushing back against the Entropy Force. Many religions see this science as Order vs. Chaos. Some believe their is a harmony, a balance between Order and Chaos. Physicists write books full of equations explaining what monks have taught for ages. The Balance and equilibrium between the forces of Nature.
Some believe that even the gods die in a final battle against Chaos. Some believe the whole universe eventually dies out and is reborn over and over again.
The only way to Prove it would be to have someone or some technology travel the whole span of time, observe and record what is going on (Not all of it – just the highlights – beginning, something from the middle, and the end of the Universe). That would be the only true science, anything else is just belief.
Zenith, you don’t really believe what you think you believe, either:
Consider Two Choices:
#1 If you had a daughter who was very sick with a bad infection- would you just take her to a Church and pray she gets better? Then watch her die? That is the will of God, and it takes real faith, surely.
Or,
#2 would you rather take her to the Hospital, have the Doctor (a man trained in health science) prescribe the right antibiotics (a chemical invented by science) get her medicine at the Pharmacist (Another person who studied the science of drug chemistry ), Give the 30 pills to your daughter 2 times a day for 15 days, and see her get better, as the chemicals eliminated the deadly ’single celled organisms’ you think are so meaningless?
Tell me – which do you chose?
#1 Ignorance and Death?
or
#2 Life and Understanding?
(I recommend you obey Deuteronomy 30:19 and pick #2)
Back to Buddhists – they don’t have to nail people to crosses, or spray the blood of animals on stone alters.
They meditate on Suffering and the Relief of Suffering through letting go of Greed, Hate, and Illusion.
Meditation can actually be harder than being nailed to a cross, it takes a lot longer to rise above the self.
And the animal sacrifice-free vegetarian diets are generally healthier than a diet of cheeseburgers and fries.
To learn the life freeing teachings of buddha – try the free book: The Issue At Hand:
http://www.insightmeditationcenter.org/imc-iah.html
And for Every God Fearing Christian out there – for Christ’s Sake – Jesus IS the first Humanist!
Jesus rejected religion and told everyone that priests are snakes that feed upon the people.
Matthew 23 is as true today as it was when it was written.
Matthew 23Â (New International Version) – Let’s look at what Jesus has to say about religion and the pious:
 3 But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. …
[*Then why listen to them at all? The plan they are selling doesn't work for them, either.*]
 13″Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites!
You shut the kingdom of heaven in men’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.
[*Seems He just doesn't like these priests.*]
 15 You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are.
 16″Woe to you, blind guides!
 23″Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matter