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What exactly do you think you are going to prove?

Published July 22nd, 2011 by Bobby Henderson

What exactly do you think you are going to prove? it’s just disrespectful to other human beings faiths and beliefs, and im sure u of all people should know u can’t put any sense into say a devout christian. Honestly, what your doing is the equivalant of making a rude, sarcastic joke to a child that doesn’t understand humor. u cant tell a christian thats been raised from birth to believe that there’s a magic man in the clouds that he’s wrong. you’ll just get what uve been getting, hate mail, and death threats. God is the equivalant of santa exept the child is never told he isn’t real until it’s to late. and u think your doing a good thing by making up this pastafarian crap to prove how absurd the idea of god is. what i don’t think u understand is that u cant argue with idiots about this stuff as most christians are dont know a thing about science.(I apoligize to all respectable christian scientists). as an athiest, im disgusted what youre doing. like making fun of christians being killed by somali’s, and u quoting, "apparently they thought there god could give them safe passage"(yes ive read ur website). really, did it ever, or does it ever occur to you that these people are actually human being’s with family’s and feeling’s, and just because they think the world was created  differantly than u, u have to mock them… that’s kind of a dick move. your being no better than they are(religious people) by making fun of and disrespecting other people just ’cause they think differantly than u. oh wait u are religous, u worship a flying spaggetti monster. which means i have the right to ridicule u on how stupid your dumbfuck religion is(oh may the great pasta diety forgive me for my sin) and dont deny that u worship the all mighty pasta king, because your the leader of the church. with the true words of your religion written on a piece of paper. it’s ironic that u, by trying to prove how bad religion is. go about it by u yourself inbodying everything that is wrong with human beliefs. u are everything that is wrong with athiesm. u go around acting all superior and pompus, like u know better than everyone else and tell them why there wrong mockingly. the world would be a better place if u took all your "followers" (butt pirates) got on a pirate ship and ate spaggetti until you all died of overeating.have u ever heard the term live and let live? and i love it how  u post all the hate mail u get on a your page to be ridiculed by your cronies( who by the way need to get of the internet and do something productive)yes we all the the bible huggars are gonna say dumb stuff because they’re uneducated. but that doesn’t mean u have to be immature and make fun of there faults so just lay off. even though this message sounds hostile just know i agree with what your’e trying to do (i think) educating people, i just wholly disagree with how u are going about it.

-David

A short response from Bobby:

It’s not our intention to mock or offend anyone. But I realize people sometimes feel mocked  or offended.

It might be fair to say that we’re disrespectful.  I would agree that most Pastafarians don’t respect the notion that religion should sit on a pedestal.  We don’t think that because an action is explained in the context of religion it is exempt from the scrutiny it otherwise would have been subjected to.  Religion is not a free pass for crazy ideas and crazy actions. 

I would agree that it’s not our place to pass judgment on those who see the world through a lens of religion.  But neither is it our place to ignore when personal belief becomes public action.  We can accept that some choose to teach their kids the earth is 6000 years old and that dinosaurs are a myth.  But if they push for those ideas to be taught in our schools, it’s no longer a question of respecting personal belief.

The idea that rational minded people must be anti-religion is a wrong one, I think.   If we must draw a line to divide ourselves, I’d prefer the line be positioned between reasonable and unreasonable people, rather than religious and non-religious people.  

It’s one thing to see the world through a lens, and another thing to act as if it’s the only lens that can exist.

I believe there is no group more tolerant of other religious and nonreligious groups than Pastafarians, without question.  The death of the Christian sailors by pirates was a sad thing for everyone who heard of it, I’m sure.  My hope is that it doesn’t happen again.  The hard question is:  will criticizing the decision to venture into dangerous areas on the basis of faith help avoid a similar situation in the future?  I don’t know the answer.  But I wonder how many of their friends and family wish they had shaken them and said this is a bad idea, don’t do this.  This is one of the hard questions – this line between respect and concern. 



797 Responses to “What exactly do you think you are going to prove?”

  1. TiltedHorizon says:

    Is think this is a Poe. The author is clearly trying to convince us that he is concerned with our treatment of “other human beings” yet how does he regard them?

    “u can’t put any sense into say a devout christian”
    “u cant argue with idiots about this stuff”
    “a child that doesn’t understand humor”

    Hello Pot, meet Kettle.

    It is clear that ‘David’ totally disregards people of faith, likening them as mentally defunct children. Yet he is disgusted by us?!? This has to be a Poe!

    • Spammyboy says:

      Don’t you find it a bit strange that the Y and O keys are on the same line as the U key, but no-one seems to be able to string the three of them into a single word. Also strange that the rest of this guy’s spelling is alright…

    • lord barbecue says:

      Yes, he had the beginnings of a good argument with the child analogy. Indeed, some people do have a child-like belief in religion and it is cruel for an adult to tease a child. He ruined his argument with the “idiot” comment.

      On the other hand, very few people have that truly child-like belief. The vast majority are hypocrites. Not all of them are full-on hypocrites. Most are in some stage of denial. In their deepest heart of hearts they know it’s a scam, but they want it to be true and so they suppress their doubts. They react strongly to concepts like evolution and the FSM because such concepts challenge beliefs they are already struggling to hang on to.

      Yea, I know. I’m preaching to the choir.

      RAmen

  2. ooa3603 says:

    Congress could use some faith…

    And the Meatball said unto the US Senate, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain of debt, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you… R’Amen

  3. TASM10 says:

    Hi guys,(sorry I haven’t posted in ages)

    While I disagree with “David” mostly, I can at least partially understand where is coming from, given that at times our bretheren can get a little overzealous with the criticisms on Christianity, and may occaisionally go a little too far. We are often portrayed as a Christianity hating site by our detractors but this is untrue. What we Pastafarians and Atheists hate is no single religion, that would make us no better than they. We hate short-sighted, ignorant indoctrination of any format. That means that we can’t hate most religious people, as in this modern age, such religious indoctrination is much less common than in previous ages. What atheists, pastafarians etc. strive for is this intellectual oppression to be finally extinguished, not necessarily the death of religion. Just another thought “David”, have a look at the definition of SATIRE.

    R’Amen all,
    Tasm10

    • TiltedHorizon says:

      Welcome back TASM10.

      I don’t agree with David at all. The weight of an argument is predicated largely on the strength of its foundation. David’s general regard for the xians he charged himself with defending is that they are mindless children and that any attempt on our part debate them is waste of time. Obviously if we thought they were mindless children we would not bother, the fact that we do means we hold xians in a much higher regard.

      This is not suggesting that some FSMers have not crossed the line, it does happen but we do correct them. In the thread David references his choice of quotes represents the minority. The majority of FSMers were sensitive and respectful.

  4. John Carter says:

    I grew up in what the Right would call a Liberal family and though being presented with the religious arguments at home and school and Sunday School, radio and TV, I was allowed to make up my own mind. Thus, at about eight, I ‘had no use for that hypothesis’ and stopped believing in gods pulling the strings and by graduation from primary school had become an atheist and embarked on the more demanding but fascinating project of learning how things actually work.

  5. Tina says:

    I think David would be a lot more persuasive if he bothered to spell and punctuate properly. It’s pretty ironic for him to point out how uneducated Christians are when he doesn’t seem to know how to spell or compose a comprehensive sentence.

  6. Drained and Washed Clean says:

    What exactly do you think you are going to prove?
    ** That religion shouldn’t be taught in public schools…
    it’s just disrespectful to other human beings faiths and beliefs,
    ** No it isn’t. But I will tell you that trying to teach religion as science in public schools is unlawful. Perhaps you should be a little more worried about that.
    and im sure u of all people should know u can’t put any sense into say a devout christian.
    ** A devout [insert whatever religion here] takes some suspension of thinking. But what it sounds like you are implying that since there are people who won’t change their minds means that the facts shouldn’t continue to go out? Religion should just be allowed to run rampant?
    Honestly, what your doing is the equivalant of making a rude, sarcastic joke to a child that doesn’t understand humor.
    ** So you are comparing the intellect of xtians to children? Yet we are being disrespectful…?
    u cant tell a christian thats been raised from birth to believe that there’s a magic man in the clouds that he’s wrong.
    ** Yes we can, and I have, and I will continue to. Religion should not be excluded from question or . We are living according to ancient doctrines that, to this day, continue to cause war, death, and destruction. Yet what controls all of this has yet to provide any sort of evidence or proof of its claim.
    you’ll just get what uve been getting, hate mail, and death threats.
    ** So we should be cowards and run away because someone is throwing words at us? We shouldn’t stand up for fact and reason?
    God is the equivalant of santa exept the child is never told he isn’t real until it’s to late.
    ** Until it’s too late? That is exactly our point. By allowing creationists to get their crap taught as science is exactly how we keep young minds from being indoctrinated. We can keep it from being too late, but we have to keep putting the facts out there.
    and u think your doing a good thing by making up this pastafarian crap to prove how absurd the idea of god is.
    ** ABOUT tab. To prove how absurd teaching religion’s idea of how the world came to exist.
    what i don’t think u understand is that u cant argue with idiots about this stuff as most christians are dont know a thing about science.(I apoligize to all respectable christian scientists).
    ** You know, for someone who is continuously saying that we should respect xtians you sure are doing a great job of putting them and their intellect down.
    as an athiest, im disgusted what youre doing.
    ** I honestly can’t wrap my head around you being an atheist. You have to be the most ignorant atheist I have ever met in my life.
    like making fun of christians being killed by somali’s, and u quoting, “apparently they thought there god could give them safe passage”(yes ive read ur website).
    ** Apparently not enough of it. That comment is a statement of fact. That is actually what that couple thought. Sailing in that area of the world was stupid, regardless of the mission. If religion hadn’t been associated with their death then everyone would be saying “what the hell were they thinking”. But because they are “missionaries” then this is such a horrible tragedy. It is ridiculous.
    really, did it ever, or does it ever occur to you that these people are actually human being’s with family’s and feeling’s, and just because they think the world was created differantly than u, u have to mock them…
    ** We know that they have families. My question is where was their family when they said they were going to do this? Who in their family had enough intelligence and balls to say “No, you can’t go. That is insane”. It has nothing to do with how they think the world was created. It has to do with the fact that 2 people did not act very intelligently.
    that’s kind of a dick move.
    ** As is trying to bypass the Constitution and get religion taught in government funded schools.
    your being no better than they are(religious people) by making fun of and disrespecting other people just ’cause they think differantly than u.
    ** “You are” (take note: AKA you’re) the one saying religious people don’t have any more intelligence than a child. I think you also are mistaking facts and questioning to be what you are calling “making fun” and “disrespecting”.
    oh wait u are religous, u worship a flying spaggetti monster. which means i have the right to ridicule u on how stupid your dumbfuck religion is
    ** ABOUT tab. And this seems very angry! I am getting the feeling that you may have lied to us about your lack of belief. This is too personal.
    (oh may the great pasta diety forgive me for my sin)
    ** We don’t have to live in guilt. Don’t have to ask for forgiveness.
    and dont deny that u worship the all mighty pasta king, because your the leader of the church. with the true words of your religion written on a piece of paper.
    ** Wait… You really don’t get it? Like really really?!?
    it’s ironic that u, by trying to prove how bad religion is. go about it by u yourself inbodying everything that is wrong with human beliefs. u are everything that is wrong with athiesm.
    ** Really? They have done things like destroy civilizations, torture people, wage war, rape, plunder, and all of this in the name of their god. THAT is religion, and THAT is what is wrong with human beliefs. They will do anything if they think it is for their afterlife. How do we do that? What have we destroyed? Who do we force our beliefs on?
    u go around acting all superior and pompus, like u know better than everyone else and tell them why there wrong mockingly.
    ** No, we have discussion and discourse where we provide facts and evidence while the people who believe in god do nothing more than yell and scream that we are being disrespectful and mocking… That sounds a lot like… YOU!
    the world would be a better place if u took all your “followers” (butt pirates)
    ** AHA!! GAY PIRATE JOKES! Now we know you are a xtian.
    got on a pirate ship and ate spaggetti until you all died of overeating.
    **Wishing our deaths. Another typical xtian move… You did call that earlier in your letter…
    have u ever heard the term live and let live?
    ** Yes, and it would be great if you actually knew what it meant.
    and i love it how u post all the hate mail u get on a your page to be ridiculed by your cronies
    ** Ridicule like discuss how horrible your grammar, spelling and punctuation is and how horrible your logical reasoning skills are? Honestly, the letters are only ridiculed if they are disrespectful to us (kind of like yours). Those who come here with respect and open minds (and spell check) are not ridiculed.
    ( who by the way need to get of the internet and do something productive)
    ** Says the person who is here?
    yes we all the the bible huggars are gonna say dumb stuff because they’re uneducated.
    ** Again!!!
    but that doesn’t mean u have to be immature and make fun of there faults so just lay off.
    ** You mean call them out for being too lazy to use things like spell check or to read a book on how to properly formulate an argument? I’m not sorry that I expect people to be educated.
    even though this message sounds hostile just know i agree with what your’e trying to do (i think) educating people, i just wholly disagree with how u are going about it.
    ** You have absolutely no idea what is going on here, but keep playing it cool. Fake it till ya make it.

  7. PlagueChicken says:

    Troll in a Nathan Poe outfit.

  8. Trev says:

    Wow! Please learn to write if you’re going to class yourself amongst the educated.

    You’re not your. They’re not there. It’s not that fucking hard!
    Also, some proof reading and proper sentence structure wouldn’t hurt. I felt myself getting dumber as I read that.

    If people are going to assert absurd ideas be they religious or not, then they are going to be criticised and ridiculed. Especially if these absurd ideas impose on the rest of the population! As Henry said, “Religion is not a free pass for crazy ideas and crazy actions.”

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