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What exactly do you think you are going to prove?

Published July 22nd, 2011 by Bobby Henderson

What exactly do you think you are going to prove? it’s just disrespectful to other human beings faiths and beliefs, and im sure u of all people should know u can’t put any sense into say a devout christian. Honestly, what your doing is the equivalant of making a rude, sarcastic joke to a child that doesn’t understand humor. u cant tell a christian thats been raised from birth to believe that there’s a magic man in the clouds that he’s wrong. you’ll just get what uve been getting, hate mail, and death threats. God is the equivalant of santa exept the child is never told he isn’t real until it’s to late. and u think your doing a good thing by making up this pastafarian crap to prove how absurd the idea of god is. what i don’t think u understand is that u cant argue with idiots about this stuff as most christians are dont know a thing about science.(I apoligize to all respectable christian scientists). as an athiest, im disgusted what youre doing. like making fun of christians being killed by somali’s, and u quoting, "apparently they thought there god could give them safe passage"(yes ive read ur website). really, did it ever, or does it ever occur to you that these people are actually human being’s with family’s and feeling’s, and just because they think the world was created  differantly than u, u have to mock them… that’s kind of a dick move. your being no better than they are(religious people) by making fun of and disrespecting other people just ’cause they think differantly than u. oh wait u are religous, u worship a flying spaggetti monster. which means i have the right to ridicule u on how stupid your dumbfuck religion is(oh may the great pasta diety forgive me for my sin) and dont deny that u worship the all mighty pasta king, because your the leader of the church. with the true words of your religion written on a piece of paper. it’s ironic that u, by trying to prove how bad religion is. go about it by u yourself inbodying everything that is wrong with human beliefs. u are everything that is wrong with athiesm. u go around acting all superior and pompus, like u know better than everyone else and tell them why there wrong mockingly. the world would be a better place if u took all your "followers" (butt pirates) got on a pirate ship and ate spaggetti until you all died of overeating.have u ever heard the term live and let live? and i love it how  u post all the hate mail u get on a your page to be ridiculed by your cronies( who by the way need to get of the internet and do something productive)yes we all the the bible huggars are gonna say dumb stuff because they’re uneducated. but that doesn’t mean u have to be immature and make fun of there faults so just lay off. even though this message sounds hostile just know i agree with what your’e trying to do (i think) educating people, i just wholly disagree with how u are going about it.

-David

A short response from Bobby:

It’s not our intention to mock or offend anyone. But I realize people sometimes feel mocked  or offended.

It might be fair to say that we’re disrespectful.  I would agree that most Pastafarians don’t respect the notion that religion should sit on a pedestal.  We don’t think that because an action is explained in the context of religion it is exempt from the scrutiny it otherwise would have been subjected to.  Religion is not a free pass for crazy ideas and crazy actions. 

I would agree that it’s not our place to pass judgment on those who see the world through a lens of religion.  But neither is it our place to ignore when personal belief becomes public action.  We can accept that some choose to teach their kids the earth is 6000 years old and that dinosaurs are a myth.  But if they push for those ideas to be taught in our schools, it’s no longer a question of respecting personal belief.

The idea that rational minded people must be anti-religion is a wrong one, I think.   If we must draw a line to divide ourselves, I’d prefer the line be positioned between reasonable and unreasonable people, rather than religious and non-religious people.  

It’s one thing to see the world through a lens, and another thing to act as if it’s the only lens that can exist.

I believe there is no group more tolerant of other religious and nonreligious groups than Pastafarians, without question.  The death of the Christian sailors by pirates was a sad thing for everyone who heard of it, I’m sure.  My hope is that it doesn’t happen again.  The hard question is:  will criticizing the decision to venture into dangerous areas on the basis of faith help avoid a similar situation in the future?  I don’t know the answer.  But I wonder how many of their friends and family wish they had shaken them and said this is a bad idea, don’t do this.  This is one of the hard questions – this line between respect and concern. 



793 Responses to “What exactly do you think you are going to prove?”

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  1. nun sequitur says:

    earlier, the point of bringing up entrapment, religious discussion entrapment- THAT is what a national ‘debate’ on intelligent design, IS…it is another way to impose religion thru the proposition that it is science, too & by design to make any1 opposing this seem 2 b intolerant, instead of the whole concept being just another entrapment discussion …it is BY design, this way, intelligent design. ..it is an intelligent approach 2 trying 2 convert persons…it is subversive.

  2. nun sequitur says:

    An area scientist here in organic chemistry supported that darwinism is ‘just’ a way to spread a-theism & proposed that this therefore is y intelligent design ought b taught alongside it, or that darwinism should NOT b taught because it is a sacrelege,apparently…was darwin religious, just out of curiousity? Did he ever propose 2 b interested in having his science dissected by religious standards? The scientist claimed to have taken a survey of colleagues determining @ its conclusion that none of the scientists could cite a direct example of how darwin contributed to any of their work & that this renders his point proven, that darwin is unsupported in science, he has decided…? Did he stack the decks, what was his selection process in choosing those he interviewed, this was not mentioned?? Were they all of the same opinion already? It was an argument that religion has a place in science RATHER than or to the exclusion of, darwin…i was beginning to wonder if that whole interview he had done of this was fabricated, because i couldnt c him actually saying, this? I do not know him 2 b wrong, but dont know this is a conclusive …conclusion?

    • theFewtheProudtheMarinara says:

      As a young man, Darwin considered the ministry, and after his discovery waited years to publish his theory as he wrestled with his religious convictions, his family’s, and the shitstorm of criticism he knew was coming.

      Creationism should never be taught as science. It does not follow the scientific method, is not testable, and attempts to work backwards from a desired conclusion, rather than gathering and analyzing observations.

      From Wikipedia (ok, not the best source, but I’ve seen similar stats elsewhere):
      The vast majority of the scientific community and academia supports evolutionary theory as the only explanation that can fully account for observations in the fields of biology, paleontology, anthropology, and others.[22][23][24][25][26] One 1987 estimate found that “700 scientists … (out of a total of 480,000 U.S. earth and life scientists) … give credence to creation-science”.[27] An expert in the evolution-creationism controversy, professor and author Brian Alters, states that “99.9 percent of scientists accept evolution”.[28] A 1991 Gallup poll of Americans found that about 5% of scientists (including those with training outside biology) identified themselves as creationists.[29][30]

      Additionally, the scientific community considers intelligent design, a neo-creationist offshoot, to be unscientific,[31] pseudoscience,[32][33] or junk science.[34][35] The U.S. National Academy of Sciences has stated that intelligent design “and other claims of supernatural intervention in the origin of life” are not science because they cannot be tested by experiment, do not generate any predictions, and propose no new hypotheses of their own.[36] In September 2005, 38 Nobel laureates issued a statement saying “Intelligent design is fundamentally unscientific; it cannot be tested as scientific theory because its central conclusion is based on belief in the intervention of a supernatural agent.”[37] In October 2005, a coalition representing more than 70,000 Australian scientists and science teachers issued a statement saying “intelligent design is not science” and calling on “all schools not to teach Intelligent Design (ID) as science, because it fails to qualify on every count as a scientific theory”.[38]

      • nun sequitur says:

        i actually read somewhere, in terms i do not have full comprehension of & what citations i cannot give u nor verify the validity of whatever site i found this, on, but that science has proven there is a method by which matter can be spontaneously created,,,out of seemingly nothing. i recall hearing that electrons behave in inconsistent manners under controlled experiments- that an ‘observed’ interference pattern of electrons in this experiment bear out that something freaky happens…a single electron ends up being in 2 places @ single point in time (how u could compare this 2 an un observed phenom i do not know, because now…it is essentially observed in the process?) & that things like tachyons exist, somewhere within these realms exists the probability of otherwise unexplainable phenomena…like psychic experience, which therefore is really not para/next to normal, butis a natural occurrence…

        …i lack ur cohesive answering question powers but wanted 2 try 2 get this out there. ..& thanks for your reply. & 4 using the term shitstorm regarding the controversey…which almost assuredly it was, people r still feeding it & if i am, not meant 2…

        • nun sequitur says:

          If any1 is interested in answering 1 more question…this one is like the other not obligatory & may sound odd…if any1 reads this can maybe pass it on- has any1 here ever seen a ghost or other such sensory anomaly….i qualify this by including that this would b an experience while not ingesting beer…just 2 rule that out & by sighting, not include the spaghetti monster, ,,or maybe i mean 2 ask about in addition to the fsm…it ocurred 2 me this becomes a loaded plate of a question…because of my own sanity being called into question as it is & not neccessarily only by me, it is an area begging for the label applied above (shitstorm)…was curious…is not really fsm related & more often have had persons place it in religious contexts, but wanted 2 ask anyway. A religious context seems like the most likely explanation & i was looking for other opinions, if any1 interested (i suppose religious would also b okay 4 that matter- but not only, maybe?)

  3. theFewtheProudtheMarinara says:

    What exactly are we trying to prove? How about how religion can be harmful.
    From today’s CNN.com:

    Thousands and thousands of children suffered from sexual abuse in the Dutch Roman Catholic Church over more than six decades, and about 800 “possible perpetrators” have been identified, an independent Commission of Inquiry said Friday.

    “Several tens of thousands of minors have experienced mild, serious and very serious forms of inappropriate sexual behavior. Victims have often suffered for decades from the effects of abuse and have received acknowledgment of the fact,” the panel says in its report. “This has caused problems for them, their immediate family and their friends, who require attention and sometimes professional counseling.”

    • Apprentice Frederic says:

      “How about how religion can be harmful.” In that vein, we should all hoist a mug of grog in honor of Christopher HItchens’ arrival in the Vale of Vermicelli today; an eloquent spokesman, I think!

    • nun sequitur says:

      Victims received acknowledgement, really? Even the unreported cases? who apologized exactly??

      • nun sequitur says:

        How about the DEAD victims, the ones whom had so many shit*y things happen including & not limited 2 this…all the people whom die in silence undefended, their ‘complaints’ unheard or heard & ignored? WELL maybe there can be an apology in the AFTERLIFE…are there banks in heaven, or r these just existing in limbo?

        • nun sequitur says:

          One of the gifts i got 2 give some1, 4 the holidays is a publication…a book about interspecies friendships between unlikely animals. . .a monkey & a cat, a dog & a squirrel in with litter of puppies…it may SOUND like a vapid choice, but the way I look @ it, if they can overcome differences, they are setting an example…& some1 went 2 the effort 2 compile it all into book form. Pretty f-g sweet, I say.

          REALLY what I mean when I say I do not CARE is that i am done- i m tired, of a whole lot of lots of sh-t & it is never going 2 b any different. As has been demonstrated, nothing ever f-g changes over time, the only thing that does is who is left behind to alter the final edit so that injustices get smoothed over…thousands more were f-g molested and god knows what else, YOU JUST DO NOT HEAR ABOUT IT. People r injured ALL the time, irreparably & told they r FINE when they are not, the insurance co if they can, will say u never were, that it was all about the $…in order 2 keep u from pursuing anything, because it is as some1 pointed out, what is done…how many thousands check out from that tangled nightmare I cannot say. Things like the world trade center on a larger scale…it has haunted me that i rode into nyc & back with an entire bus full of commuters that may never have survived, it is unspeakable – all of it. There r just 2 many unspeakable things. & everything i do & say gets called into question. IT too, is intentional. Head game after head game. Neverending, on top of the pain, which gets excruciating physically & have head games played over treatment, too…& things I say torn to shreds & THINGS SPOOFED in my name.

          & I will tell u what i told my husband about porn…some1 mentioned it, here… do whatever u want, it is a free country that way; but i pointed out that these sites people r so keen 2 c , do not neccessarily verify the AGE of participants, u can not b assured of the safety & well being of persons involved, even if it ‘looks’ as if every1 involved is having a grand time. If u think of the people as someones sibling, offspring, etc it becomes more clear what the priorities need 2 b- nobody wants 2 c someone they love mistreated, not if u r the least bit rational or caring. I say these things not to judge nor b a party pooper. Nor am i sure this makes me a feminist, i c nothing inherently wrong with it as a concept, but when push comes 2 shove it is nice if persons ultimately can respect one another as human beings, & SOME of the materials can be dehumanizing. My opinion is wofyh about a nickel with inflation accounted for, but i just wanted 2 state this because some1 posted about it…i do not consider it 2 b ‘immoral’ or sinful

        • nun sequitur says:

          The bank remark was for all those proposing everything is about $…

  4. nun sequitur says:

    oh & speaking of child abuse, some1 i was asked 2 babysit for, had her mom, a christian missionary sing me biblical hymns & try 2 convert me ( r u jewish? read isaiah section blah blah in the bible,..it was written for u & ur people) i thought this was very sweet but, misguided attempt & felt very uncomfortable but made the best of it…she had called 2 talk 2 her grandkid, whom i thought would appreciate his own loving kind grammy singing songs to him, being bible hymnals or anything @ all. I was half asleep when she called, & fell asleep while hearing him saying uh huh, yah, yah…ive had her do nothing for an entire call but sing hymnals 2 me, but since she was trying 2 ‘rescue’ me, that is a valid way as any 2 go about it…but her own grandson was i gathered, baptized, so there was less concern, there,..maybe. so…i had noticed him holding the mouthpiece above his head while still trying to talk & readjusted it, saying she called special just 2 speak 2 him…i fell asleep…(y they asked me 2 babysit, beats me, because i warned them about my alertness level waning from lack of sleep, but they still asked me 2 stay over claiming no alternative & a funeral they have 2 go 2…they were trying 2 talk 2 me about religion & did say they held religious teaching sessions with their kids, but, cannot take him to an opportunity to learn about death? kids see a bleeding man nailed 2 a cross in depictions, but cannot go to funeral? he couldve burned whole place 2 the ground, while i was drifting off 2 sleep…@ least then I could have given a definitive answer on the afterlife); when i awoke minutes later, the phone is laying on the floor, it has no dial tone & i think he abandoned her..hung up etc & hoped she would call him back. meantime, the parents eventually come home & it turns out, they said they couldnt reach me (were 4 hours past the time they had promised 2 b back)…& on checking the phone said it was pulled out @ the base…from the wall. When i was his age, i did not know how the phone connected 2 the wall, so this impressed me, but also kind of disturbed me because had there been an emergency i could not have called out…& explains y the call back never came…this however amused/ prompted my spouse 2 say HE wouldve done the SAME THING & had 2 ‘grow up’ with that ‘s-t’ altho i did not repeat this, 2 them…& we had also concluded the parents probably did that in front of him, disconnected the phone from wall…& probably when I called! We joked about it, because if I did not try 2 laugh, I would cry sometimes. There was an odd lack of discussion regarding the hymnal singing. The white elephant in the room…whom told her I was of jewish descent? it was not me. i had NO issue with her intentions which I figured were well…& then…it was brought up to me, not 2 apologize or explain, but 2 gague my reaction. as if 2 test how tolerant i m. ..next, their friend, (works in the same attornies office as my siblings ex spouse had visited, where he claimed 2 have helped attornies discredit workmans comp cases & later, set sights on me), an attorney, is saying things 2 me, about the phonecalls…’oh, that MOTHER of hers…’ trying 2 get me 2 join in & paint me as the intolerant 1. . .the parents had shared things with us concerning their sex lives which we did not need 2 know but did not judge them, 4…nonetheless, it caused FURTHER awkwardness, on top of 50 other things including an event involving a murder suicide of another couple we had introduced them, 2…we got scolded for having introduced them, because s-t, the shooting could have occurred THERE. Really? BUT, it hadnt…& It could have occurred ANYWHERE. & INSTEAD, their kid had played with the couples child & every1 had had a nice visit & vowed 2 repeat it. ..which, could not happen, being that they were, sadly, departed. I am, unfortunately, not a social worker or I could have opted 2 dissect the misplaced anger, further. Meantime, I have had ALL MANNER of MASSIVE head games played with me, since & some more character assasination methods employed… unexplained ‘repeat’ performances of persons bringing up religion, trying 2 save me…christianity type salvation mainly-then, making me out 2 b intolerant of both the message & the delivering party. ..as if 2 compound how much of my fault the other instances have been. & i have never suggested any1 ought apologize 4 any1 else, let alone their parents, trust me. i apologize too much as it is. but it was a combination of no apology combined with me accepting all the blame. incidentally, my husband could not figure out y they had been missionaries in sweden…i am unawares of much concerning world cultures, but am told this is like being a mormon missionary in utah (redundant)? i actually had liked their family, so am saddened by these developments… along with all the other s-t in the name of religion masqueraded as loving, which I have seen enough of 2 know the difference…one of the head games involved the CLEAR insinuation that I removed the phoneline, not their toddler…sorry 2 dissappoint, but, twas not me. .. as mentioned, tho, my husband being less apt 2 care what people think, thought it was amusing & says HE would have disconnected the line & bragged about it. i resent having it implied falsely that i would have done this & allowed their kid 2 accept blame. THIS type of head game has unfortunately become something I now equate as a POTENTIAL 2 happen again & has happened in enough forms by otherwise ‘respectable’ persons whom have backing & support while I am alone a wisp on wind & meant 2 b there. POLITICS more than religion, maybe. I never thought the hymns were funny. I laughed to myself because I was made 2 feel uncomfortable & it was maybe an attempt 2 find solace.

    • nun sequitur says:

      & i actually LIKE religious music in many forms…that is something i neglected 2 mention.

      • nun sequitur says:

        I think david sedaris needs 2 do a rewrite of the bible, or talmud, etc but using animal characters, like he did in the squirrels & chipmunks book… As for the book choice noted above- i meant 2 finish that by saying, that it was depressing 2 me 2 consider that animals of different species could b getting along with one another (documented nicely as mentioned) & behaving BETTER than people of differing backgrounds often do & it is telling…because we r SUPPOSED 2 b the ones with the evolved higher consciousness…that was the point. That if they can do it, we certainly can manage 2 @ least keep up appearances, via TRYING 2 b more evolved. The other book was by david sedaris…squirrel seeks chipmunk…which anthropo-morphises animals…if u combine our book selections with the tidbit up there i left in response 2 some1 on the boards on one of these letter areas, posting about porn…some1 could surely come up with a decent joke or 3…

        now, i have sort of imposed my morals here…but did not intend 2. u know what they say about intentions, some1 pointed it out once. good intentions all lead 2 hell, or something…so. there i am, again. doomed- no matter what.

        probably 1 of the silliest porn referrences recently was heard on an episode of some of the therapeutic comic relief dvds reccomended 2 me 2 c…another flight of the conchords episodes, by the dave character…

        it occurred 2 me u guys should get ur tshirts on someone an episode of something on the air, somewhere…just a suggestion. u can stick it with the other unsolicited shit i have dished out, maybe just stick it beneath the stash of degrading sweaty porn movies u plan 2 accumulate, in opposition 2 my reccomendations?

        have a good holiday.

        • nun sequitur says:

          When i attempt 2 respond in ‘order’ 2 prior texts i have otherwise no ability 2 edit, they show up in wrong slot/,location. This helps support view that i am 100% unfollowable…it is more like 80% if the texts were in order…

  5. nun sequitur says:

    oh! i forgot…my husband just telling me about GAFRIA…this is reportedly a pit, on fire, where all manner of criminals were thrown into, a physical place their bodies were put, like a giant crematorium & this became concept of HELL, the place- dunno…thought that interesting.

    • Mal says:

      I believe you mean Gahenna, a site in the Valley of the Son of Hinnom (today just the Valley of Hinnom) outside Jerusalem where followers of Ba’al and Caananite gods sacrificed their children by fire. According to some accounts, the site was later used by the Romans as a sort of trash pit, where everything from human waste to dead criminals were burned. Many theologians believe the stories of Gahenna are almost certainly the visual origin of the Christian concept of hell.

      Unfortunately, like so many things referenced in the bible, there is no evidence the place actually existed. Titus Flavius Josephus, a contemporary Roman-Jewish historian, never mentions the site or the practice of burning bodies or even trash there, though he wrote extensive accounts of the valley itself. It would appear, at least presently, that the only references to Gahenna and the practice of burning criminals there appear exclusively in Judeo-Christian and Islamic texts.

      • Apprentice Frederic says:

        That’s really interesting, Mal. I remembered reading the name “Tophet” used in a similar way – the internet seems to say, FWIW, that that’s the same place.

        • nun sequitur says:

          There appears 2 b a depiction of Centralia, Pennsylvania, as a tab photo for ‘hate mail’ on this site.

          A neighbor just suggested he would like 2 go there to visit. It is a place the sub ground has been afire for years on end in spite attempts to put it out. . .maybe instead of relegating some1 2 hell, can just say GO 2 CENTRALIA!

          Also, we do have a molten core for our planet…anyone ever witnessing a volcano eruption back in the day would call that the opposition to the clear blue sky heavens, the atmosphere grows dark, , ,i forget what cultures sacrifice people to volcanoes to appease the gods or spirits thought to govern eruptions…oh wait i recall it may have been the hu-mans.

  6. nun sequitur says:

    he said i ought to look up …the correct word before posting..(i misquoted him)…thanks 4 correction.

  7. nun sequitur says:

    I just remembered all the praying i had done, in my life…much of it, in hebrew. Then,,over time, having health issues & lack of repitition, memory issues, I lost the ability 2 read hebrew…i tried 2 sign up 2 take a refresher course, but because I did not officially join temple here, i was ignored, a few times. I thought it would b a positive thing, to try 2 recover this ability. I know it probably does not make a difference really, i may not b able 2 relearn it anyway but, wanted 2 try…it is something associated with religion, but not entirely. It is a language.

  8. nun sequitur says:

    5% of respondents , as scientists believing in creation out of 100 percent makes them a minority not neccessarily wrong…i just had wondered what darwin believed as far as if this was meant to oppose creation in his opinion, did he make a statement?

    .

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