1270955 Views
1,848 Comments

I spent a while thinking (hate-mail)

Published June 14th, 2011 by Bobby Henderson

I spent a while thinking of a good reply to this, without sounding like some sort of inbred hick or perhaps maybe to get your attention. However, I realize that there pretty much is no way for that to happen, if you put this in your hate-mail section, I’ll probably be mocked just as much as the next guy, who put the stupid comment about how you could never buy a pirate ship. I’m OK with that, I just wish people will actually think about what I have to say rather then ignorantly mocking what I believe personally. Whatever may happen, I don’t really mind, except that I cannot bring myself to be silent on this issue.

I am a Christian, whatever you may think about me, or absurd assumptions you may have about what I look like, think like, or speak like, realize this, I think all beliefs should be treated with equality. Atheism, Hindu, Buddhist, Christian, Muslim, Agonist, Voodoo, whatever, I don’t care, if you believe that you are correct, then you have every right in the world to believe that with all your heart, and nobody should force you to believe what they believe. Now I also believe in open criticism of any of these religions, meaning your Pastafarian view that openly mocks religion. However, it is also my right to criticize the criticism, meaning though while I believe it is your right to mock, harass, and generally make religious persons miserable, I don’t believe it is morally right.

Atheism is a belief just as much as Christianity. Say whatever you want about facts and how religion is stupid and all those who practice it are all idiots, but it still comes down to the fundamental truth that you must believe this to be more true over the other option. I am again, completely fine with that, and that is why I love America so much, because we CAN believe differently then one another, and still live peacefully (to a degree) together. However, mocking is not the right way to go about arguing your belief.
By the way, here is the definition of mocking:

1. Tease or laugh at in a scornful or contemptuous manner.

2. Make (something) seem laughably unreal or impossible.

To laugh at someone else’s belief that they dedicate their lives to is not funny or humorous, but I believe is rather childish and immature. This is the main reason why I would much rather sit down calmly with an atheist and have a rational discussion about each other’s beliefs, instead of smacking them in the face with a bible, and shouting how they are going to hell for not believing the undeniable truth that is the bible, or worse, calling their belief idiotic and getting my group of friends together and laughing and pointing in his face.

Of course there are people that do this, hence, you, and there will always be people like you. My job is try to convince you to be rational and discuss each others view points.

I could never put myself in your mindset and read this the same way through your eyes. To you, I just look like another idiot who took this seriously and decided to write a concerned letter and waste his time trying to teach you to be respectful, but the truth is, writing this helps me put my thoughts in order anyways.

If you do have one ounce of thought for my beliefs, at least view this letter with respect, and try to think about what I am thinking when I read this:

http://www.globalone.tv/forum/topics/student-punished-for-spaghetti?groupUrl=flyingspaghettimonster

What I am thinking is that the joke has gone to far. Of course this letter asks for intelligent discussion, and that seems to have never existed in your website, so before I go, let my put it in your language.

Fuck you, and lay off religion asshole.

Sincerely,
Austin



1,848 Responses to “I spent a while thinking (hate-mail)”

1 53 54 55 56 57 67
  1. JD says:

    problem: you want to “discuss rationally” your position vis a vis atheism, when your whole position is based on irrational belief.

  2. Doktor J says:

    Let me break down this letter and address it piece by piece…

    “[...]it is your right to mock, harass, and generally make religious persons miserable,[...]”
    a) yes it is technically our right
    b) I don’t believe the intention of Pastafarianism is to harass or bring misery upon anyone of any religion (or lack thereof), at least as long as they have not been doing so to others (Fred Phelps & WBC can go die in a fire mkay?)

    “By the way, here is the definition of mocking:[...]”
    You missed these (granted, from a different dictionary):
    3. to mimic, imitate, or counterfeit.
    4. to challenge; defy
    A challenge does not necessarily intend to bring cessation of opposing viewpoints, merely to invite critical/objective thinking.

    “This is the main reason why I would much rather sit down calmly [...], instead of [...] calling their belief idiotic and getting my group of friends together and laughing and pointing in his face.”
    I think the objective of Pastafarianism is to sit down quietly and satirize other religions IN VIEW OF others (but without imposing our ideas upon them), then when the wingnuts come out and complain about us publicizing our beliefs, we just quietly point to how they’re trying to shove theirs down other peoples’ throats at the expense of other beliefs (which we Pastafarians SHOULD never attempt — if any do, you have my permission to face-whack them with your Bible or alternatively, politely remind them that’s not the spirit of Pastafarianism).

    “[...] the truth is, writing this helps me put my thoughts in order anyways.”
    Hey, I respect you for that. It’s always good to have your thoughts in order :)

    “What I am thinking is that the joke has gone to far.”
    What I am thinking is that SOME may have TAKEN the joke too far. In reference to your link, I’d say a lot of important details were missed — how FAR did his costume go? Did he just have a bandana and appropriate shirt/jacket/pants? Or did he try to bring a sword (even toy), wear an eyepatch, or other attire/accessories that indeed may have been disruptive to his own learning or that of fellow students? I think it is certainly possible to dress like a pirate without offending TOO MANY people.

    “What I am thinking is that the joke has gone to far. Of course this letter asks for intelligent discussion, and that seems to have never existed in your website[...]”
    Well then, look to the Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster: “Pastafarians are a community of peaceful and open-minded worshippers (sic), which means that anything we’ve said or done to offend people was meant only in the spirit of promoting greater understanding and awareness.”

    “Fuck you, and lay off religion asshole.”
    Well that was rather rude. Honest, but rude. I’m not sure whether to respect it or take incredibly mild offense at it. However much I may end up respecting it though, I (and probably most other Pastafarians) will likely not “lay off religion”, as we have likely seldom laid on it. A proper Pastafarian will, at most, have (somewhat) gently elbowed and nudged it while winking… and possibly smiling.

    Yours Truly,
    The Irreverend Jones

  3. Clint says:

    I was more or less okay with this guy until the “fuck you” part. Disagreed with him, of course, but was more or less alright with him. It’s funny how some people will get there panties all in a bunch over a little good natured ribbing, telling you that they feel your view is disrespectful to them, when they’ve never given you or your views an iota of anything that could conceivably be viewed as a reasonable facsimile of respect, much less actual respect. I’m sure this fine gentleman fancies himself an open minded individual who enjoys a good, honest, and intelligent discussion about religion, but I’m calling bullshit. And if that link he cited is something he considers serious cause for alarm, given the circumstances surrounding the overall topic at hand (which is the lesser point of our belief system, the first of course being spreading the legs…er, Word of His Noodly Goodness), then frankly, fuck him, too.

    Also, to The Irreverend Jones above:
    I may have smiled at it. I know I was making the eyes with it.

    • Clint says:

      My fault. Should’ve been “their.” Post-post Editing Rocks! Any more?

    • TheFewTheProudTheMarinara says:

      Hyper sensitivity is caused by the realization that there is much truth to the jibe. Sure, they’ll proclaim their faith to the heavens, but deep down, the truth is gnawing at them like a grain of sand creating a pearl. In all but the truly psychopathic, there must be a part of them that questions the absurdities of their beliefs.

      • Gabe says:

        Hypersensitivity is caused by not finding much stability in something right away, because the human mind can’t grasp what’s true right away. If you’ve believed in something you’re whole life, it’s hard to see it defined in a way you don’t understand. But that doesn’t mean it isn’t true.

        • TheFewTheProudTheMarinara says:

          I was raised by a very religious mother, but after I matured, the contradictions of the Christian faith got to be way too much. It was OK when a bunch of illiterate goat-herders wondered how we became what we are, but we can discard with those old superstitions now.

  4. Simon says:

    I’d like to dissect this post, as I think it exposes quite a number of the typical responses, more orthodox and entrenched religions put forwards when their views, beliefs or dogma is challenged….

    [quote]I spent a while thinking of a good reply to this, without sounding like some sort of inbred hick or perhaps maybe to get your attention. However, I realize that there pretty much is no way for that to happen, if you put this in your hate-mail section, I’ll probably be mocked just as much as the next guy, who put the stupid comment about how you could never buy a pirate ship. I’m OK with that, I just wish people will actually think about what I have to say rather then ignorantly mocking what I believe personally. Whatever may happen, I don’t really mind, except that I cannot bring myself to be silent on this issue.[/quote]

    This starts off as someone who is being reasonable in their response. He invites sympathy by saying he is likely to be mocked…awwww. As if being mocked is the worse thing that can happen.

    [quote]I am a Christian, whatever you may think about me, or absurd assumptions you may have about what I look like, think like, or speak like, realize this, I think all beliefs should be treated with equality. Atheism, Hindu, Buddhist, Christian, Muslim, Agonist, Voodoo, whatever, I don’t care, if you believe that you are correct, then you have every right in the world to believe that with all your heart, and nobody should force you to believe what they believe.[/quote]

    Couple of points here. I agree all beliefs should be treated equally, this is a fair and reasonable point. However, atheism is not a belief, or set of beliefs. It is the very opposite of a belief structure. Please do not lump your irrational, and faith based ideas in my my rational, and evidence based facts. They are not the same. Whilst I fully agree you have the right to believe what you want to believe, you do not have the right to consider your faith the same as my science.

    [quote]Now I also believe in open criticism of any of these religions, meaning your Pastafarian view that openly mocks religion. However, it is also my right to criticize the criticism, meaning though while I believe it is your right to mock, harass, and generally make religious persons miserable, I don’t believe it is morally right./[/quote]

    You obviously don’t believe in open criticism of your religion, otherwise you would not be responding to such here. You knew that you weren’t going to change anyone here’s mind with your post, the whole basis of which is based on decrying the criticisms you feel have been made about your faith.

    Secondly, who are you to judge what is morally right? By your own faith, that is God’s province, not yours, so why not attempt to pray this site away. If God was that upset by criticism, He no doubt would have done something about it a long time ago. Oh, that’s right, He does in the Old Testament, primarily by destroying or killing those who don’t agree with His ideas. I can see where you get your aggressive nature from, its part of your religious belief structure.

    [quote]Atheism is a belief just as much as Christianity. Say whatever you want about facts and how religion is stupid and all those who practice it are all idiots, but it still comes down to the fundamental truth that you must believe this to be more true over the other option. I am again, completely fine with that, and that is why I love America so much, because we CAN believe differently then one another, and still live peacefully (to a degree) together. However, mocking is not the right way to go about arguing your belief. [/quote]

    I think I dealt with this above, but the word atheism means a lack of belief or faith in a God or Gods. It is NOT a belief, it is the absence of belief. I’m so pleased that you deign to acknowledge that I and others are allowed to believe something different from you. Thanks very much!

    Mocking and satire are the best ways to approach with any system of ideas that exist without evidence. To quote the late, great humanist Christopher Hitchens, “Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.” and also, “That which is asserted without proof, maybe dismissed without proof.”

    I am more than happy for you to believe whatever you want, my problem is that like many faiths, Christianity is an evangelical faith, where the believers are encouraged to go out and proselytize their beliefs to others. If you aren’t doing so, you aren’t according to your own religious texts, a “good Christian”. When your lot stop preaching to me, you will indeed by allowing others to live their own lives and their own beliefs. Until then you and your religion aren’t.

    [quote]To laugh at someone else’s belief that they dedicate their lives to is not funny or humorous, but I believe is rather childish and immature. This is the main reason why I would much rather sit down calmly with an atheist and have a rational discussion about each other’s beliefs, instead of smacking them in the face with a bible, and shouting how they are going to hell for not believing the undeniable truth that is the bible, or worse, calling their belief idiotic and getting my group of friends together and laughing and pointing in his face.[/quote]

    The point of such mocking and satire is to expose the ridiculous and contradictory nature of those beliefs. If your faith cannot stand up to a little humour or mocking, I would suggest that your faith is on very shaky ground indeed. Humour is often an excellent way of exposing lacklustre and poor thinking.

    [quote]Of course there are people that do this, hence, you, and there will always be people like you. My job is try to convince you to be rational and discuss each others view points.[/quote]

    If this debate was happening 400 years ago, I would be in fear for my life for even exposing a contradictory point of view to the prevailing religious beliefs of the time. And it is impossible to have a rational debate, about irrational beliefs.

    Your only sources of argument are, “Its in the Bible, therefore its true.” or “It’s beyond our understanding because God is so great, and humans are limited” or “You are a hater, therefore you won’t listen to my arguments.” That is pretty much most religious replies to any of my questions, regardless of the religion. Except Buddhism, and that’s because it is not a religion per se, by a life style and system for meditation, without the necessity for a divine being or creator.

    [quote]I could never put myself in your mindset and read this the same way through your eyes. To you, I just look like another idiot who took this seriously and decided to write a concerned letter and waste his time trying to teach you to be respectful, but the truth is, writing this helps me put my thoughts in order anyways.[/quote]

    Why should I pay your religion any respect, when for the past 1,000 years your religion has paid no respect to any other, has persecuted other religions, and non-believers, has activity committed the most terrible crimes in the name of that religion, and has only in the past 100 years or so, finally accepted that it no longer has the power it once did, and has had to adapt its message to the times, rather than burn people at the stake when they disagreed.

    Frankly the onus is on you and your religion to make up for the atrocities committed in its name, the terrible injustices done by its misogynistic anti-semitic and homophobic teachings, and its hoarding of wealth in various sects whilst preaching that their followers should try to alleviate poverty and suffering.

    I wish to clarify here I am not criticising or denigrating individual belief, but the organised churches of the Christian faith, from the Roman Catholic church, to the evangelical ministries currently syphoning as much money from their followers as they possibly can.

    [quote]What I am thinking is that the joke has gone to far. Of course this letter asks for intelligent discussion, and that seems to have never existed in your website, so before I go, let my put it in your language.[/quote]

    You’re not asking for intelligent discussion. You are asking everyone to accept you what you believe on face value, respect your religion and give it special status beyond criticism or satire. Sorry, given what happened in the world the last time Christianity had too much power in the world, I’d fight tooth and nail from that happening again. By the way, the last time that happened was called “The Dark Ages” for very good reason.

    [quote]Fuck you, and lay off religion asshole.[/quote]

    As Christian an attitude as you are going to find in most places, and only goes to prove my points above. Thank you sir for revealing your true colours.

    • AM says:

      Evidence-based fact? Wow.

      • Simon says:

        Yup, its what we like to use instead of faith based religion. I encourage people to use facts. They’re great :)

    • Mattia says:

      I agree on almost everything you stated here, just want to underline that actually you do believe there is no god, and every attempt to describe reality has a belief structure.

  5. J says:

    I am new to this site and yes while I do feel this “rant” is quite entertaining to read I don’t feel it harps to the way most christians feel about the COTFSM. I was raised in an incredibly religious household and continue to embrace the finer points of christianity ie being a good person helping others etc etc. I do not feel the bible needs to be taken literally in any context. A 10 year old knows bible stories he hears are not logical because he can see by the world around him this is not the case. You being a “good christian” would mean you need a sense of humility of which it seems you obviously lack. Humility is being able to accept that well shit happens without divine intervention. As far as your “fuck your religion” garbage well my religion is in essence the same as yours and that’s not very christian is it? I can acknowledge it may be hard to accept you may be wrong but nothing is stopping you from researching and exploring other possibilities but until you can do that you’ll just be ignorant.

    • Alphy says:

      Jay, some people will always be ignorant. It’s always easier to believe than think. “True believers” already have all the ‘thinking’ done for them. Why should they engage their brains and risk an overload or short circuit when the buybull and their pastors have assured them that they are on the one and only true path. They just take the easy road. It’s always easier to believe than think. Come jump on my born again, premillenialism, rapture us into space, holy ghost powered flying saucer, down in Roswell Texas. Holy flying poop! I’ll fly away! Hallelujah! In my glorious self righteous ignorance, yeah, I’ll fly way!

      It’s time for lunch. I’m going to have another poop sandwich at the local fundamentalist church.

      • Gabe says:

        There are many Christians who are encouraged to think about things for themselves.

        • SillyKiwiMan says:

          Sure…

          As long as their “open minded” thinking for themselves is done with the understanding that your “truth” will come out on top. Remember, when something is simply implausible, or irreconcilable with something else you’re supposed to believe in, then it comes down to the great classic cop-out. Faith. The dogmatic equivalent of putting your fingers in your ears & yelling “la la la! God did it & I believe in jeebus”.

    • TheFewTheProudTheMarinara says:

      Nothing wrong with living “the finer points of christianity” J, except being a good person is not confined to any one religion or non-religion. Yes, I too was raised by a very religious mother, and was taught that much of the bible was not to be taken literally. Later I learned that most of the rest of the buybull was not factual, either, so why base my life on a book of fables? Just live according to your moral code for its own sake, and not base it on the watchful eye of the Great Boogey Man in the Sky.

      • Paul says:

        I hope you are not also mocking the men and women who died so that this discussion could take place….

        • TiltedHorizon says:

          Odd. I see nothing in tFtPtM’s post which qualifies as mocking towards the men and women in service of our country. Would you mind explaining?

        • TheFewTheProudTheMarinara says:

          Tilted, I think Paul is talking about persecutions the Christians suffered for their faith. While I’m sure they occurred, they pale in comparison to the atrocities Christians have visited upon “savages” who didn’t believe in their faith.

  6. Wayfairing Knarr says:

    One of the wonderful things about this site is that it is always presented in a serious, straight-forward tone. There are no jibes against specific beliefs, and any laughter comes from followers, and not the doctrine itself. Any retort then reveals a personal perspective on this issue, and I think that the anger in response to this idea is indicative of underlying insecurity often expressed as a need to convert others to your belief. Faith is a personal notion, and although it may reveal itself to the public (as this site points out) through group actions, it need not be affected by the ramblings, of whatever quality, that are available on the internet. Such pious bigotry therefore shows the writer’s (very politely expressed) views on the issue, and inherently compares his religion (in this case Chrisitianity) against the one advocated by this site.

    Or perhaps as he points out it “helps [him] put his thoughts in order” and you may take this as an expression of my own belief, that certainty, in any form, is dangerous and should be avoided whenever possible.

    • Atsap Revol says:

      Yes, WK, I agree that CERTITUDE is a dangerous quality that has caused great human suffering over the ages. Be it political or religious, it pits one group against another for reasons that are often frail. The ultimate product of unrestrained certitude is war. I am certain that I am correct.

      AK

      • Simon says:

        I agree with you here. Its doubt that we should cherish, doubt frames our outlook, and asks us to question everything. Only by rational examination and discussion will we find the truth in things, whatever that truth maybe.

        The worst crimes are committed by those who believe that they are 100% certain, and those who oppose their view are “sinners”, or “dissenters”, or “heretics”. This certitude gives them the right, they believe, to act in whatever fashion they like, because they are right.

        As Christopher Hitchens once said, and I believe he was quoting someone else, “If you want a good man to do evil things, all you need is religion…..”

  7. MainePapa says:

    I am new to this site, so I am a bit behind on the whole thing, but to this post I want to say a couple of things.

    1. Atheism is NOT a religion or a faith, it is a LACK of religion or faith in gods that do not exist. Further, Atheism is a religion like Abstinance is a sex position.

    2. I love when Christians talk about having a respectful conversation and that they “allow” us the right to dissent. It is my experience, and a vast experience it is, that in the minds of Christians, they are the most persecuted people on the planet. There has been, probably since the dawn of religon, an unspoken rule that gives religions a pass against open and candid discussions, which is of course absurd.

    3. I agree with the person who said that when a Christian gets angry over something like the FSM, is really just fighting his own demons within his faith. I think that all Christians go through a crisis of faith, probably more often than they would admit, and they eventually decide to either become an atheist or to just give up on rational thought.

    4. I was almost sympathetic to the author, until he did what I predict MOST Christians will do when presenting an argument against something they do no agree with, they go to the ad hom attack. I don’t think they can help it. I once did a short study on the CNN Belief Blog to see how many times a person of faith would post before attaching a fallacy or an ad hom attack. Three posts was the average.. three.

    So, that’s my two cent’s worth on the topic. I’ve been an atheist for 40 years and when my time comes to leave this world, I’m pretty sure that I’ll have lived my life to the fullest possible and I’ll leave NOTHING on the court.

    Dr. Martin Kinard

    • Steve says:

      Good response to this post. I dislike it when christians try to lump non believers in with themsleves (atheism is a belief like religion or is a religion). Atheism as a word that has too negative a connotation. I usually call myself a non believer. Skeptic doesn’t sound forceful enough if you are in fact an atheist so I avoid that term as well.
      What is most preposterous to me about the religious is they assume belief is innate. They are so ignorant obout even the basic facts
      of reality and life in general.
      Everywhere you look in the world today you see a chasm between those of faith and the rest of us that are not deluded about the universe and world we live in. This is has always caused problems through history but as science explains more and more about how things work the divide is becoming too great.
      Dec 18 2012: Five women immunizing children against polio shot dead in Pakistan.
      Fanaticism (usually religious) is required to commit a premeditated act like this.
      Evolution is a fact yet in the USA most Americans disagree because it conflicts with their ‘faith’.
      Luckliy the fanatics and evangelicals are not in charge in the USA or it would look something like Afghanistan.
      I despise religion and feel sorry for those that have been indoctrinated into it.
      It would be wonderful to live in a world free from the superstition and evils of religious dogma.

  8. John says:

    Atheism a religion? If atheism is a religion, not beating someone up is a form of violence.

    Besides that, i thing every (other) religion should be the target of mock and ridicule. Or should be treated as a mental disease.

    • Gabe says:

      Believe it or not, there are smart, devout, religious people out there. But I will admit, some religious a pretty crazy.

      • Gabe says:

        *some religious people are pretty crazy

    • Zach says:

      i completely agree john

1 53 54 55 56 57 67

Leave a Reply