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Pastover event

Published May 6th, 2011 by Bobby Henderson

Pastover

A bunch of groups in Sacramento, including Sacramento Freethinkers Atheists and Nonbelievers, Sacramento Area Skeptics, Atheists and Other Freethinkers recently had a Pastover event.

Among the many pirate events I created this cake to celebrate his noodliness (Red velvet inside, in celebration of tomato sauce). We also ate pasta and meatballs.

Ramen

-Roberto



168 Responses to “Pastover event”

  1. Big Guy says:

    @ pasta lover aka Atsap Revol
    I see you’ve watched the Ten Commandments. Heston was the best Moses ever, he should have won an academy award for that role.

    What you do in this life not only affects you but your children and wife. If you live as an atheist you’ll die an atheist. If this means God brings the destroyer to your door step to take your first born or the walls of Jericho crumble on you, or the tower of Babble is submerged or Pharos chariots are washed into the sea. If you live as an atheist you’ll suffer an atheist consequences. God is a merciful God but beware of his almighty wrath.

    • Ray says:

      Exhibit A of blind religious fundamentalism without logical conclusion. Religion serves a constructive ethical purpose, and is to an extend required in society. But don’t take Christianity so literally.

      • Big Guy says:

        Your on the wrong bus Ray get a transfer and get off at the next station. You can’t change the words or diminish there intent.

        Rev 22 18 + 19
        18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book 19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

        • Ray says:

          The Bible is more complex than you think, Big Guy. It’s a compilation of interpretations, not a code of law. Where in history has the Bible been used as a code of law and ended with a constructive, positive result?

          I’m not saying the Bible doesn’t teach a positive lesson; it does. But it’s when that one interpretation is forced upon others that things go wrong.

        • Big Guy says:

          Ray this is my point it is a complex book. It can’t be pigeon holed as a fairy tale told by mad men as the atheist would have us believe. It’s more than a life guide or code of conduct or unexplainable mysteries it is the unfettered words of God. Don’t mitigate there importance.

        • puppygoogoo says:

          @ big guy,

          We dont say that the bible is “a fairy tale told by mad men”. We say that the bible, or Intelligent Design, has no scientific proof and as a result it cant be taught in science classes. If you wish to teach it in religious education classes go ahead, i would support it as im sure most people here would.

          Puppygoogoo

      • puppygoogoo says:

        Ray,

        Thanks for your refreshing views. Can yopu please clarify the statement “Religion serves a constructive ethical purpose, and is to an extend required in society.” I, personaaly, dont believe this to be true as all rules, religious or otherwise, that promote hatred/intollerance (i.e. homosexuals) are not a good thing for the human race. Now while i agree with most of the religious rules, love one another, etc, i dont believe the association with religion is necessary and should be what all humans strive to achieve. your thoughts?

        puppygoogoo

        • Ray says:

          Generally, religion teaches us to cooperate with each other as smoothly as possible and as friendly as possible. That is a common ground with successful religions, and it seems that any idea of hatred coming from that religion would contradict its foundation ethic code of cooperation and constructive behavior. I don’t think any religion that promotes hatred has emerged unscathed.

        • puppygoogoo says:

          Ray,

          Agreed. What i was referring to, and wasnt very clear about, was the “is to an extend required in society” part of the statement. We should, as humans, see the need to treat each other fairly and as well humans without the need for a religion, whichever flavour you choose, to tell us. Just like food, water and shelter are basic needs, so this should be too.

          puppygoogoo

  2. Atsap Revol says:

    RAY & BIG GUY,

    I thought my many unanswered questions were simple and straight forward. But I guess folks steeped in the Sunday School sweetened-up mythology of the OT have difficulty recognizing the passages I cited.

    Yes, I know that there are verses in the Bible that describe God as merciful and good. On the other hand, He is described in other verses in clear, unambiguous language as cruel, unmerciful, and downright evil. I don’t need a translator or a man of the cloth to tell me what is said. I have cited many of the negative incidences in the “You Sicken Me” thread to Big Guy. I won’t put them all down here again.

    The slaughter of the first-born in Egypt is a good example of mass murder of innocents. The great flood of Noah is another. But here, Ray and Big Guy, is one specific citation I’d like you to respond to: 1 Samuel 15:2-3 “Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not, but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling.”

    Don’t weasel around with original sin as an explanation of why God would order the killing of suckling infants. In my world little babies are innocent creatures, and anyone harming one is evil beyond description. How can you give your God a free pass for such wanton destruction? Don’t give me that old “God moves in many ways, His wonders to perform.”

    There is no way I can ever accept or worship a spiteful, nasty being like the God portrayed in the OT.

    My point is this, you both come here expounding on the wonders and truth of your religion. I’m not anti-Christian. I will remain meekly quiet as long as Christians keep their religion in their heads, their churches, and their homes. But when they try to force their paradigm down my throat, I’ll give them reasons why it’s not acceptable to me and many others. And the number includes many who are not Pastafarians.

    BTW I’ve read Exodus. There are many parallels in the Charleton Heston movie, but I never conclude what’s in the Bible from Hollywood productions or Sunday School tracts. Neither should you.

    Atsap Revol

    • Atsap Revol says:

      RAY,

      While I was writing the above you posted comments addressed to Big Guy. I commend you for your stand against his dogmatic approach to the literal nature of the Bible. You know, I think many of the Christian precepts are good standards for the conduct of life. If I accept the Bible as mainly mythological, there are some jewels of advice contained in your Holy Book, just as there are in many other religions of the world. And just as there are in secular society.

      Atsap Revol

      • Ray says:

        Thank you. It took me a while to write my below wall of text, so I didn’t see this message. Good to know you’re not a mindless atheist, but at least a thoughtful one.

      • Big Guy says:

        so now you preach the virtues of scripture, good on you

        • Ray says:

          Big Guy, you’ve oversimplified the situation.

    • Ray says:

      Number one: the Bible is an interpretative story that teaches a specific set of ethical codes through events that are not empirically proven, but are used to convey the ethical code that Jesus and Moses supposedly thought. That in itself is flawed, since it is trying to describe “God” through a human perspective. The Bible is a storybook and a fairytale that lays down ethical foundations for society. Symbolism and hyperbole are used to make a point, and whether God smote the Sodomites or shat on them doesn’t make a difference, as long as you know the message behind it. Don’t confuse the message with the supposed “events”, which may or may not have happened.

      In short, I hate the bible, but I’m cool with what it thinks it’s trying to say.

      Also, the quote that you made is a reflection upon the secular ethics of the Middle East at the time, when killing is fine if justified. The difference between this message and our contemporary ethics is that today, killing is not okay no matter what, even if justified, since justification does not warrant moral correctness. This is not only a Christian ethic, but also a widespread tenet throughout many different religions and secular philosophies, and has made its way into the secular code today, if you like it or not. The contradiction you stated is actually a secular justification of murder for a cause, and is an outdated ethical code made by man. Besides: who knows what God is thinking, if there is a God? Whoever wrote Samuel probably doesn’t, and neither do I. I just know the difference between constructive behavior and blind religious following.

      Number two: Organized legalistic religion, on the other hand, may be the worst representations of religion ever. It imposes its own personal beliefs upon others (especially the Catholic church), and proposes that a human interpretation of a higher power is the law that cannot be bent. Religion, if you boil it all down, is about “salvation”, the human tendency to believe in something better than the life they have before them (as Buddha said, “Life is suffering”). “Salvation” is usually interpreted as something that is achieved through constructive behavior. Note the ambiguity of the statement: this definition gives no single interpretation of how to do this. Organized religion gives us a set of strict rules to follow, some of which contradict the base religion entirely (the Catholic church weren’t really following the Ten Commandments when they slaughtered people in the Crusades) because they were based on secular gain.

      The importance of being a smart religious person (something that unfortunately Big Guy isn’t) is to realize the importance of an ethic code to structure society and make sure we survive, and to understand that not one ethic code can bring us to do that. I believe there is common ground between these codes (i.e. not one religion successful and accepted religion will tell you it’s okay to kill), and that’s only because of the need to be successful in life (survival).

      So in short, true Christians don’t live to cram their belief down people’s throats. We live to teach what we think is a constructive message to society, withholding all the voodoo crap that can be found in most of the Bible, and if you don’t subscribe to that, at least recognize that the ethic code that is introduced by religion has seeped into the secular moral code, and it’s done some good.

      Would you go and kill someone just because you’re Atheist and Christianity said not to? No, because you know that killing’s not constructive, and it’ll leave you in an unfavorable situation. This same message is taught by religion, not matter what it is, if you ignore the fluff.

      I’ve had a great conversation with Bobby Henderson, and in his email he stated:

      “…I think that is the major failing of the ‘atheism movement’, that it is so cynical. It’s the reason I don’t identify as atheist, and stay away from group things. Seems like too many people are caught up bickering over the origins of the universe and missing the larger issue of morality. For too many atheists it’s about being right at all cost, even if it means being a dick. Seems like a better argument for atheists would be, we’re moral independent of any indoctrination, and then live up to that by being decent people, even -and especially- to the people who disagree with them. Maybe most Atheists are decent people but I find a lot of them are bent on attacking religion, and the rest don’t do much about it. When I say anything critical about the atheism movement I get tons of angry emails – they are very, very touchy.

      My family was a little religious when I was growing up. I didn’t have the typical atheist bad experience with religion, my experience was positive – I still know a lot of people from those days and we’re on good terms. I did my Eagle Scout project at my childhood church. But since then I’ve come into contact with some awful people who hide behind their religion. For the same reason I wish atheists would keep their own people in check, I wish religious people would keep their own people in check. Both of those cultures seem bad at that. One of my best friends is a young-earth creationist (believes the earth is 5000 years old … home-schools his kids to keep them indoctrinated, etc) .. we disagree on a lot of things but we both believe strongly that bitter atheists and awful christians are two sides of the same coin.

      I’d be happy if FSM rejected bitter Atheists and awful Christians, and was welcoming to every reasonable person, no matter what they believe.”

      I’d be happy to share our entire email thread if you’d like.

      • TiltedHorizon says:

        Kudos, Ray. You are the type of visitor this site does not see enough of.

        As an Atheist I don’t believe in god but I am not militant about it. I join my Christian friends in Church during baptisms, christenings, and confirmations of their children. I help my niece with her bible studies and religion homework. I am also supporting my Wife in raising our son to be a good Catholic, like she is. I do these things because everyone has the right to form their own conclusions, which is a right fundamentalist like Biggy would love to take away. This is not to say that a-holes only exist in the religious camp, I don’t agree with ‘angry’ Atheist either but I do tolerate them largely because those like Biggy, who deem me worthless, require more attention.

        • Ray says:

          That’s great, man. Keep personal convictions personal, no matter what they are.

      • Big Guy says:

        I reread at your request; It is man who deceives man with his greedy intent for selfish gain. Religion is not immune to mans deceit neither are atheist.

        Fortunately the FSM aka bin Laden were apostates onto religion but there dead now buried deep beneath the sea & best forgotten.

        • Ray says:

          What?

        • TiltedHorizon says:

          It’s an attempt on his part to belittle by suggesting FSM and Osama are one and the same.

      • TiltedHorizon says:

        “Religion is not immune to mans deceit neither are atheist. ”

        And unless religion is questioned and juxtaposed those deceits are not revealed.

      • Hazel says:

        “Also, the quote that you made is a reflection upon the secular ethics of the Middle East at the time, when killing is fine if justified.”

        This is true. The point Atsap was making was that the bible is supposedly written by God to apply FOREVER. Big Guy believes that this the bible is a book telling actual truth (because he is a creationist) therefore, any arguments about “oh it’s just a metaphor” are unfounded.

      • cadbrowser says:

        I have to comment tho.

        Ray, correct me if I’m wrong, but it appears to me that you are still stuck on the idea that the bible provides a good ethical code and without it the secular beings would’ve never have known some of these morals (i.e. “Thou shalt not kill”). I come to this conclusion by your comment, “…at least recognize that the ethic code that is introduced by religion has seeped into the secular moral code…”

        I completely disagree with you. The earliest abrahamic religion (judaism) is approximately 3k years old, the second (Chritianity) seen it’s major split in appx AD 70; and the third (Islam – Muslim) split around 622 AD. There were MANY, MANY religious and secular views dating back some 7k plus years.

        Most ethic codes developed for the continuation of the species, NOT due to the will of any god/gods. Especially since most of the earliest carvings dictate respect for nature and a reverence, perhaps even a worship of it; but not necesarrily any indication that these were dieties.

        I submit that you need to do a bit more research on laws of ethics and their origins as they are NOT original to the Abrahamic Religions as you are implying. It was humans who pleaded with their God (Moses trying to convince God not to slay all the men, women, & children that worshiped the Golden Calf) in the bible because how could a supreme being understand the relationship to other humans.

        An excellent source for information is http://www.creationtheory.org just click on the essays and find the one regarding biblical morality as well as athiest morality.

  3. Big Guy says:

    Ray all your long winded submission has done is to reveal a fence sitter. Your non committal paints you more as an atheists than a Christian. So besides attempting to control the temper of this conversation, what do you stand for? Can you give me the coles notes version?

    Regarding your disparaging comment

    “ The importance of being a smart religious person (something that unfortunately Big Guy isn’t”

    I play to the level of my competition.

    • Ray says:

      I’d rather sit on a fence if standing on the ground means being thick-headed.

      Life isn’t black and white, Big Guy. I don’t need to stand for anything; I don’t need to be categorized and organized into stereotypes and stark characterizations.

      • Ray says:

        Yeah, I’m sorry about that outburst. That was unwarranted.

        • Ray says:

          Big Guy, I doubt you’ve fully read my post and comprehended it to its fullest extent, and I don’t mean any personal offense by this. Please reread and think about my argument for a while, preferably a day, and come back with a cohesive counter-argument that doesn’t consist only of spewing threats of damnation. I think you’re pretty smart; I’d like to have a conversation, not a flame war.

        • Big Guy says:

          Ray at the risk of flaming I’m content to be true to myself before I lean over the fence to help you up.

          I must say your a welcome relief to most of the odious battles fought on these pages. I trust you’ll be sticking around for awhile?

          I have to add I’m in it to win. I will continue promoting God as the real salvation for mankind.

        • TiltedHorizon says:

          Ray, I think you give Biggy too much credit. Considering his history here, I don’t think he has given much thought to any arguments laid to him. I tell you what though, I am willing to hit the reset button on my perception of him. I call a cease fire on Big Guy, impress me Big, no cutting and pasting scripture please, the bible cannot be asserted as proof of itself. I’ve asked you before and I’ll ask one more time, what makes your beliefs true?

        • Ray says:

          I don’t blame him for wanting to spread something he thinks is true. After all, Tilted, you’re trying to argue about the non-existence of God, which if you truly are Atheist, then you would think is true.

          I’m no Atheist, guys. I’m also not a devout Christian spouting scripture. All I’m saying is that because we’re all human, any assumptions of a higher power should be taken with a grain of salt and an understanding that anything is possible.

        • Big Guy says:

          A grain of salt Ray? What if I’m right and all the atheist wrong? Can you imagine the lost souls in hell bellowing if only I’d known the truth.

        • Asker says:

          To BigGuy, what if you’re wrong and you’ve tried to convince everyone of a milenia old falsehood?

          If you are right are you doing it for them (thier Soul), your own ends (Fame in your Gods eyes) or because someong told you too (Teaches pet)?

          Ask the question, don’t seek an answer. There is a difference

      • Big Guy says:

        Life is black & white Ray.

        The Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:2-17 NKJV)
        1 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before Me.
        2 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My Commandments.
        3 “You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.
        4 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
        5 “Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.
        6 “You shall not murder.
        7 “You shall not commit adultery.
        8 “You shall not steal.
        9 “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
        10 “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor’s.”

        • Ray says:

          May I ask you a question? How do you know this is what God said?

        • Ray says:

          Of course, these rules ave been ingrained into society (which isn’t a bad thing), but the very nature of it should be received as mythology. After all – what use is belief in God’s “actions” if you don’t follow “his” word?

        • Big Guy says:

          I defer to my previous post don’t mess with the words in any way shape or form, if you know what’s good for you.

          As for not following his words; we were all born with original sin Ray so forgiveness is part of his master plan for our salvation.

        • Ray says:

          This is where organized legalistic religion fails. Doctrine must be adapted to the times, or humanity will not survive.

          The Ten Commandments are an interesting exception – these ethical rules have remained unchanged for thousands of years, not needing revision due to its tendency to let people and societies survive. But understand this: the Ten Commandments are a secular code. Confucius thought of a similar code without going to Mt. Sinai and without a divine intervention, and that’s because he recognized the need for society to be constructive, and was smart enough to detach that from any religious affiliation.

          Forgiveness is a great way of teaching people about these ethics, because it instills a sense of love from God and guilt, and becomes a catalyst for constructive behavior. This idea of forgiveness really was a gift from whoever said it (you’d say it was Jesus – I’d say possibly), because it gave people a reason to follow the commandments. In a sense, the teachings of Jesus really was a salvation. It allowed, for the first time, people to follow the ethics without fear of God. Remember, fear is never a good catalyst, but self motivation relies on nothing to achieve a goal, in this case adherence to the moral code of God.

          About original sin – if a baby dies before it can make choices on its own, and therefore could not have possibly known the temptations of “sin” (deviations from moral code), or the “love of God” (which is defined as salvation), does it go to hell?

        • puppygoogoo says:

          @Big Guy,

          Does your church have any carvings of jesus on the cross, the 12 stations of the cross or any paintings of mary, etc? Doesnt that go against commandement number 2? Also as Sunday is the first day of the week, do you rest on Saturdays? Hope to hear from you soon,

          puppygoogoo

        • stylusmobilus says:

          Apple and the Snake, please.

      • TiltedHorizon says:

        For once Biggy, try not being an a-hole. As I reminded you so many times now, not all the 2.1 Billion Christians think like you. (thankfully)

        • Big Guy says:

          Tilted your fellow noodleacs have all been disgustingly inhospitable to anyone who reveals God’s word in this form.

          So whose the real a-holes.

        • Ray says:

          That’s a problem, Biggy, which was not included in Mr. Henderson’s intentions.

        • TiltedHorizon says:

          “your fellow noodleacs have all been disgustingly inhospitable to anyone who reveals God’s word in this form”

          Have you considered your ‘form’ at all? It’s delivery is more like holding a gun to some one’s head, ordering: BELIEVE OR DIE. All the while wondering why no one respects you.

        • Ray says:

          TiltedHorizon, please calm down. You’re not helping your cause or anyone else’s by insulting your peer.

          Biggy, the sentiment goes both ways. It’s true that lost of atheists are rough and bitter and stubborn, but at the same time, many Christians are unwelcoming to new ideas.

        • Big Guy says:

          Tilted I’m not looking for respect & please don’t play the victim defending your self now, it’s far too late for that. You’ve revealed an ugly side to your noodle movement that seems to be so pervasive it leaves no room for common sense reasoning. The hate in hate mail is your credo and I know you live it to the max.

        • Ray says:

          There is no movement, Biggy. Calm.

        • Big Guy says:

          Ray “as far as being unwelcoming to new ideas” Christians can’t pick & choose what to accept or to leave out of the bible. It’s all or nothing at all. Conversely atheist start from a blank slate with no belief system other than to choose to believe in nothing at all. So there is no parody between the two.

          This brings the crux of this discussion to a head. Why do atheist feel it is necessary to disparage a belief system which they do not partake in? The answer is painfully obvious. To attack destroy and diminish God for believers. Evidently atheists are attempting to live there lives vicariously through Christians. We give them purpose in life, even if that purpose is hate based.

        • Big Guy says:

          Ray I know there’s no movement. They shot him in the eye his noodleness aka bin Laden is at the bottom of the sea.

        • puppygoogoo says:

          @ Big Guy,

          Let me break your statement down.
          1. “Why do atheist feel it is necessary to disparage a belief system which they do not partake in? The answer is painfully obvious. To attack destroy and diminish God for believers.”
          Wrong. I dont care what other peoples religions are as long as they are good people. Im also up for friendly banter about why people believe what they do. Ray is a good example of this in the way he is trying to understand both sides of the argument before developing an opinion. Most of the people here have done that already and as a result are welcoming of others ideas. When sopmeone that is close minded comes in and attacks then guess what, we will attack back.

          2. “Evidently atheists are attempting to live there lives vicariously through Christians. We give them purpose in life, even if that purpose is hate based.”
          Wrong again. I live my life to be the best person i can be. I, personally, dont need religion in my life to shape or guide my decisions. Once again if people do and they are good people, all good. How do christians give my life purpose? They have very little effect except providing humour by flaming this website. Now, there is no hate from our end except when people like yourself come here and try and force their views on us. The hate mail section was created to display the negative views people form of this website without reading why it was started. People like Ray, sorry to use you as an example again but you are a rare one, that wish to have an open flame-free discussion are welcomed and conversed with. His previous post was interesting and provided a snapshot into his beliefs that will help discussion, not posting quotes out of the bible that more often than not have little to no relevance.

          Hope again to hear from you

          puppygoogoo

        • TiltedHorizon says:

          “Ray “as far as being unwelcoming to new ideas” Christians can’t pick & choose what to accept or to leave out of the bible. It’s all or nothing at all. Conversely atheist start from a blank slate with no belief system other than to choose to believe in nothing at all. So there is no parody between the two.”

          Since I am still operating under a self imposed cease fire, I’ll answer this without any mocking undertones.

          Yes, Christians can and do pick & choose. This is why there are so many distinct factions within Christianity, this is also why it is your job to vet them. As you stated before:

          “Religion is not immune to mans deceit”

          Unless you as a practitioner of your faith are free to question and juxtapose what you believe in then those deceits are not revealed.

        • Big Guy says:

          Tilted unfortunately the gun is loaded and it’s on a hair trigger.
          So believe or loose your promised salvation.

        • TiltedHorizon says:

          Big, if you truly care about my soul then answer the questions with a well made argument. How have you concluded what you believe in to be true? Again, keeping in mind, there may be 2.1 Billion Christians, but they are largely divided in what they believe as Ray has already demonstrated and as many have already cited.

        • Big Guy says:

          Puppypoopoo
          1) you do care what I believe in because you’ve disparaged every word I’ve written here. That’s what you folks do here any hint of God you attack like ravenous dogs. There aren’t two sides to this argument because atheism is secular anti religious by it’s very nature. This whole site is anti God have at her & I for one will fight the good fight for God. So games on puppypoopoo

          2) The humor and negativity you refer to are an avenue for one sided hatred directed at God. You like Ray because he seems to be sitting on the fence. Baiting him with your pathetic insincerities is callously clear to me and him I trust.

        • Big Guy says:

          Tilted don’t read too much into Ray’s post. All true Christians have an unwavering belief in there faith and that faith is singularly one faith irrespective of denomination. Men created churches God created religion. Faith is non denominational any Christian who denies this is not a Christian. Where two or more gather in his name that place is his church.

          If you are seriously looking for salvation the first step is to be baptized and reborn accepting Jesus Christ as your lord and savior. I trust your request is sincere. I do care about your souls this is why I do what I’m doing…

        • TiltedHorizon says:

          Big Guy.

          Thank you returning an honest question with an honest answer. The trouble I have is that the answer lends itself to a perceptual truth. I can (and have) gotten the exact same answers back from Muslims. Additionally, the use of the ‘No true Scotsman’, i.e. you dismiss Ray as not a true Christian in order to assert your beliefs as true, makes your conclusion disingenuous. This tactic is common in deception as it’s intent is to distract focus away from the assertion. Unwavering belief is not a hallmark of any one religion, it is a common theme across them all, even those beliefs which you dismiss.

          I left faith behind because it lacked distinction, nothing seems to separate it from the many, it is my opinion that their sheer multiplicity made a mockery of religion as a whole.

          Anyway, I’m going to bed.

        • puppygoogoo says:

          @ Big Guy,

          puppypoopoo, you did make me laugh with the childishness of that one. well done.
          Now response time:
          1. I dont care what anyone believes in regardless of who they are. Dont give yourself credit where it is not due. If we attack like ravenous dogs, why arent Ray’s posts being attacked? ill tell you why, its because he is acting like a civil human being not like a child that hasnt gotten his way (i.e. you). There are two sides to the atheist argument. If there wasnt it wouldnt be an argument. Now on that point, remember what this website is for and what ive previously said about religion and where it should be taught. If you want to disagree please do so in a civil manner. This site isnt anti-god, its, well to repeat myself, about the seperation of science and religion until religion conforms to scientific practices. Once again puppypoopoo lol.

          2. Hatred of god? im an atheist, there is no god. Dont know how to explain that better to you. I like Ray because he didnt come in here and attack everyone, he has been pleasent and civil in presenting his arguments. I was not being callous and tried merely to give you an example of how to deal with people in a civil manner rather than your self-indulgent im-right-your-wrong manner. If you want to try and get your message across start acting like a human and stop being a dick. No doubt you will try and say that im now trying to be nice. Well where jesus said turn the other cheek, screw that im an eye for an eye person. hope this helps

          puppygoogoo (aka puppypoopoo)

  4. Big Guy says:

    Click away this way I know I’m winning

    • puppygoogoo says:

      Are you Charlie Sheen?

      • Big Guy says:

        wining

        • Atsap Revol says:

          Big Guy,

          Wining? Put away the bottle, you’ve had too much.

          You get more humorous with each added post.

          Lasagna Lover (AKA Atsap Revol)

  5. Omnipotent Zombie says:

    Ray, BG’s interactions with everybody have been poor because he has made them so. here, i copy/pasted what i believe to be BG’s first post on the website.-
    “Good Friday & Easter is upon us but once again noodle minions. Pasta maniacs boiling in caldrons of bizarro logic will spill onto the stove tops of pastaferian hell. Happy Easter!

    Mother Teresa said;
    “Words which do not give the light of Christ increase the darkness.” “We need to find God, and he cannot be found in noise and restlessness. God is the friend of silence. See how nature – trees, flowers, grass- grows in silence; see the stars, the moon and the sun, how they move in silence… We need silence to be able to touch souls.” ”

    i believe, that this first post was BG trying to be funny and to witness to us. -obviously, nobody shared BG’s humor, so this post came across to us as condescending, and a veiled threat followed by a quote from Mother Treresa-

    • Big Guy says:

      So oz let me get my head around this one you’re asking Ray to moderate?

      Your subjective copy & pastes submissions are spurious at best.

    • Omnipotent Zombie says:

      forogt to add: yes, i have made fun of BG, and yes, i have made fun of christianity. so don’t think i’m trying to say i am innocent. we (BG included) are guilty of being insensitive to each other’s beliefs. But this only came to be because BG posted many things that the majority of people here found offensive. (just read BG’s old responses and judge for yourself)

      • Omnipotent Zombie says:

        again, that copy/paste is based on what i BELIEVE to be BG’s first post. i’m open to correction, so if you can find the original post, be my guest.

      • Big Guy says:

        Oh poor little oz has to defend why he’s been such an a-hole. As far as beliefs atheist don’t have beliefs. Being an atheist epitomizes the lack of belief in other wards secularism. What I eluded to in an earlier post about playing to the level of your competition; I’ll step down to you level oz.

        • Omnipotent Zombie says:

          there you go again, BG; presuming to know things about complete strangers. for the record i am a deist. (google it if you don’t know what is means)
          if you read my post carefully, i ADMIT to being an arse-hole and so should you. you’ve done your share of personal attacks BTW.
          level of competition? really? you’re posts are full of grade-shool level grammar and spelling errors.

        • Omnipotent Zombie says:

          see what i did there? lol

        • TiltedHorizon says:

          “shool”?

          Paying homage to Megamind?

        • Big Guy says:

          quid pros quo oz

        • Omnipotent Zombie says:

          here’s this for quid quo pro: a cease-fire. honest questions for honest answers; negativity free and everything. As of May 9, 1:25 AM central time. what say you bg?

        • puppygoogoo says:

          Big Guy,

          I BELIEVE you’re a douche. I BELIEVE you dont have a rational argument to present and therefore rely on childish antics to make yourself feel better. I BELIEVE that you haven’t read the about tab. I BELIEVE we (pastafarians) like Ray as he has been civil (unlike you). I BELIEVE in Santa, hence why i get presents every year (who cares that i bought, wrapped and labelled them). I BELIEVE in a lot more stuff, i can keep going if you want.

          puppygoogoo

      • Encyclodpedia Brit says:

        While I appreciate Ray’s point of view and mostly agree with him, I do agree with OZ. We were rather tolerant of BG for awhile until he continued to be utterly rediculous. I think we can only hold our tongues for so long before he is too obnoxious to handle.

        That being said, it bugs me that we need organized religion to set moral standards. I manage to choose to be a good, kind, loving, helpful person on my own, shouldn’t everyone? And is it really better that the only reason a person is giving to charity is because they are afraid of something written in a fairy tale?

        My early years were influenced by bad religion but as I got older, I was surrounded by wonderful, tolerant, loving Christians. I don’t belittle their intelligence or think there is something wrong with them, it just seems to me that they believe because they need hope. I guess its hard for people to accept that this life could really be all there is. I’m quite comfortable with that, I look foward to the peace I’ll find once my time is up. My problem with this type of hope is that it is incredibly powerful in the mind. It causes people to believe that praying will cure that incurable disease or that giving your last dollar to the “Preacher” on tv will enhance your life. I personally have issues with people being taken advantage of in this way.

        I enjoy this site because I’ve found a community of people who don’t automatically tell me they will pray for me or that I am going to hell upon finding out about my agnosticism. And I do live in a state where there are literally churches on every other street corner. So I do knowledge of these happenings.

        Thank you to all those who help this community grow. I appreciate our discussions and are outlet for fun, silly, or intelligent conversation.

        Pasta Lovin’ Gal,
        Brit

        • Ray says:

          Clap clap clap.

          I think it’s a Nietzche point or a Marx point that religion is only a temporary opiate for the masses, that utopia is achieved when religion is eliminated but humans can live with the same moral values.

          I’m a cynical bastard, so I disagree. People require structure, and some sort of logic. The logic may not actually be logical, only so much so that people believe in it. Moral values cannot survive entirely without religion, unfortunately. Your generation may be able to detach the two, but the next generation may not be able to. We live in a great world today, where more countries and societies are tolerant and acknowledging. Where I’m from, people who aren’t Christian hold Christian values that they believe are good to society, not just for their salvation. But there’s always going to be someone who disagrees, which is why religion is always a fallback point when secular moral logic fails.

        • puppygoogoo says:

          Brit,

          Just a quick question, “My early years were influenced by bad religion” are you talking about the rock/punk band? I only ask as they are one of my favourites.

          Cheers

          Puppygoogoo

        • Encyclodpedia Brit says:

          Puppy,

          Maybe I stated that wrong, bad religious people? I did not mean to insult your favorite band. I quite like them myself. :-P

          xo
          Brit

        • Encyclodpedia Brit says:

          Ray,

          I do understand what you are saying. I’m an eternal optimist and a basic flowers and rainbows kind of girl, so I hope that people could rise up and have meaningful lives without the guise of religion. i will concede that, some people (especially those of lesser intelligence) need a set of guidelines because they are not capable of managing themselves. Its like the law, most people won’t steal from the store in general because its the wrong thing to do. Some will steal unless there are penalties or cameras. But some will steal no matter what. The rules help provide a deterrent. I see that christianity helps with deterring people from just existing poorly. However, like all things, religion can be dangerous when blindly followed, when it goes unchecked by society, or when large quantities of sheep join together.

          And a side note, are those values that the non-christians hold really christian values? Or just good values to live by that the Christians also adopted? I think its safe to say that most “values” are universal and have been around longer than the bible and christianity. So maybe most of the non-believers have the right moral code and the Christians stole it from us.

          How does secular moral logic fail? I mean, laws are secular moral logic and many laws are similar to the rules of Christianity, do those fail?

          Thanks for your insight,

          May the Sauce be with you,
          Brit

  6. Atsap Revol says:

    RAY,

    Thank you for your thoughtful posts. I believe you and I could have some interesting discussions over a cup of coffee. We are not very far apart in our perception of religion and morality.

    My posts, including those under the “you sicken me” thread, have been an effort to show Big Guy and other casual readers the fallacy of a literal translation of the Bible. Why do I make this public display? Because fundamentalists, such as Big Guy, are the force that seeks to introduce the teaching of Intelligent Design and Creationism into science classes in public schools. PREVENTING THAT IS THE REASON BOBBY STARTED THIS SITE (excuse my caps, but this is an important point).

    I am not a militant atheist. I have dear friends who are Catholics, Protestants, Jews, Buddhists, Hindu’s and many who have real interest in organized religion. The key to these friendships is mutual respect and people who are kind, thoughtful, decent human beings.

    Ray, I agree with you that the OT was written by people who wrote it to match the times in which they lived. Hence the many references to offenses that require stoning to death, including the stoning of “witches.” Even in Colonial America “witches” still were being tried and executed.

    I never cease to be amazed by what the human mind is capable of believing.

    Thanks for introducing a note of sage thought into what degenerated into a pissing contest with Big Guy.

    Atsap Revol

    • Big Guy says:

      Pasta lover why are so many of you sucking up to Ray?

      Creationism and thus intelligent design were here long before you were born. Denying your atheist roots makes you a hypocrite of the noodle order. Booby started the site to trash God no if ands or buts about it. You are more militant than you lead us to belief. You have consistently attacked me & God throughout these forms relying on the safety of your fellow pasta heads for support. You click me from the pages because you don’t know how to deal with me. I have more respondents to my post than anybody on these pages. I will continue to fight the good fight and you will continue to lie to everyone about who you are and why you are so vehemently opposed to God. Quid pros quo

      • Atsap Revol says:

        BIG GUY,

        We support Ray because he is a rational person with a dislike for someone with your biases. I was fairly certain that you were a supporter of ID and Creationism, and now you have admitted it. Nothing we write here will change your position, pitiful as it is, nor will your delusional ideas change any of our thinking.

        However, what you have written and our responses to it may cause some casual visitors to depart from their fundamental religious beliefs. That will support our primary goal of keeping ID and Creationism out of science classes.

        Bobby did not start this site to trash God. He started it to keep imbeciles (with 140 IQ’s like you) from shoving their silly, unsupportable beliefs into our public school classrooms.

        Yes, you have collected many responses to your posts on this forum (Note the correct spelling, it is not a form. A form is a piece of paper with blank spaces to be filled in.) You may make the Guiness Book of World Records, but what have you accomplished?

        I do not rely on the “safety of my fellow pasta heads for support.” I am quite able to confront you by myself, and I do know how to deal with you using humor and ridicule. You present no real challenge here to any rational person.

        Atsap Revol (Not “sucking up” to Ray. Just recognizing that he is a thinking man.)

    • Apprentice Frederic says:

      Atsap, your phrase “…mutual respect and people who are kind, thoughtful, decent human beings….” is one not used enough or honored enough; I’ll try to remember to follow your example. I think that the Highest Ranking of the One True Gods – being a compassionate, merciful, forgiving wuss – is fortunate to have BG to keep order amongst the atheistic rabble: keep that hairtrigger pistol cocked, BG, and pull it whenever you detect a whiff of atheism (i.e., disagreement with your own Revesled Truth) or disrespect. I don’t know any Buddha jokes, but I know a lot of Pope jokes and Colorado Christian jokes, and freedom to tell them and laugh at them is a cornerstone of the freedoms you’ve defended; you’ve nothing to prove there, for sure. As for BIg Guy jokes, well….

  7. Dman96 says:

    Holy FSM!!! Can’t there be ONE post where we don’t get into huge secular debates?
    BIG GUY, You’re a dick. if you hate us so much, leave. Quit trolling our posts, you’re not going to change anything.
    THE REST OF YOU GUYS, Please be amused, rather than upset, by big guy. For FSM, in all His Infinite Noodly and Drunken wisdom, put Big Guy there simply for our amusement, for he is an idiot, and idiots are meant to entertain FSM and us. I would be gratified if you guys would join me in a hearty laugh at the expense of Big Guy.

    • Atsap Revol says:

      OK. Ho-Ho-Ho-Ho-Ho-Ho-Ho-Ho-Ho-Ho-Ho-Ho-Ho. (*Snorts Diet Coke out of nose*)

      Angasal Revol

      • Big Guy says:

        Pasta lover are you sure it’s diet coke…

    • Big Guy says:

      Dman96 this is a secular site and thus secular debates

      DA! what were you thinking?

      FSM aka bin Laden is dead I said.

  8. Ray says:

    A thread of biblical proportions.

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