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I hope you pay for your actions

Published January 17th, 2011 by Bobby Henderson

Wow, what a scam you have used to set yourself up with money and Im guessing fame and all the stupid bimbos and other trappings it all brings. Just remember, since there is no god or religion there is nothing wrong with killing some low life, "educated" or not (or any other act). As an exemplar of life without a God, there is nothing keeping people from acting out against others in any capacity other than the relatively obscure chance of being caught. I personally believe in God. I like to think that I am held responsible at a higher level than what man does. I do like to think there’s more. I hope you pay for your actions sooner or later in life. I’m sure you will at some point. A Morally concerned man.

-Joseph

I’ve become conflicted about posting hate-mails. I think there are assumptions that the Church of FSM receives hundreds of hate-mails and that most of the mail from Christians is negative. Neither of those things are true. Hate-mails are not common, and the majority of Christians who email understand our purpose is not to mock them. Most Christians who I’ve talked to see problems with organized religion and the abuses and fraud that get tied up with faith and power.

But what I hear over and over is that they feel turned away by our reactions to hate mail. They feel too many of us believe they are stupid for being religious. Even if a few of us do, I hope the Church of FSM never turns into a venue for those opinions. That’s not what this is about.

For the most part I think we do a good job of turning down the volume on our most extreme voices, and I think that’s a healthy thing. Just as Christians have a few members who will be riled enough to write nasty letters to us, there will be a few of us riled enough to respond in kind. But the majority of us are reasonable and rational.

I hope we find a way to encourage more rational religious to venture over here, and that we find a way to keep them. The Church of FSM is open to all – and that includes those who believe in another God besides the Almighty FSM.
-Bobby



394 Responses to “I hope you pay for your actions”

  1. BathoryRB says:

    If joseph’s god exist he will punish him for this mean letter, and for thinking about Bobby henderson’s bimbos.

  2. pookie says:

    Dude…BIMBOS? Are you getting laid from starting this religion? I want to sign up!

  3. Inge says:

    Not really. So far we are doing all right in this sector without religious involvment.
    Maybe a healthy dose of humor and fatalism does the trick. Anyway, Pastafarians are insanely sane people, do not seem to need heavenly aid in their love life as far as I know.

  4. Bianca Lawrence says:

    God-believers seem to live under a misguided apprehension that they have a monopoly on morality. There are far more atrocities perpetrated in the name of religion than in the name of atheism!

  5. ReligiousCyclops says:

    Bianca you say – “God-believers seem to live under a misguided apprehension that they have a monopoly on morality. There are far more atrocities perpetrated in the name of religion than in the name of atheism!”

    The truth of the matter is we do have a monopoly on morality and righteousness because we believe in omnipotent all knowing God. The rest of you are just fooling yourselves and you are going to suffer in eternal Hell fire damnation for continuing to fool yourselves and others. GOD WILL NOT BE MOCKED!

    • TheFewTheProudTheMarinara says:

      Why does your All-loving, All-merciful god have an eternal torture chamber? He shouldn’t be so damn vain that he’d do that to good people who didn’t get his message (his fault – Christians comprise only 30% of world population and FALLING) or didn’t believe it due to common sense.

      A couple questions for you: 1. When you say “we do have a monopoly on morality”, RC, are you just referring to YOUR particular sect? and 2. Do you belong to the Westboro Baptist Church?

      • ReligiousCyclops says:

        Young man,

        You are on your way to Hell along with other homosexuals, adulterers, liberals and atheists. No, I don’t belong to the Westboro Baptist Church. But the Westboro Baptist Church is a fine group of outstanding Christians trying to spread the love of Jesus by warning people that they are going to Hell unless they become true Christians like me. Again, mark my word, young man. GOD WILL NOT BE MOCKED! REPENT OR BURN IN HELL FOR ALL ETERNITY!

        • TheFewTheProudTheMarinara says:

          Hey, thanks for calling me a young man! That’s almost enough to forgive the rest of the rant.
          Here goes nothing: Hey, god? MOCK, MOCK, MOCK. Gee, where’s the fireball? Show yourself!
          I’ll take my chances of burning in hell, just like I’m not wearing an aluminum foil hat to block the CIA’s – or is it aliens’ – monitoring of my brain waves.

          Yeah, being a liberal will send you to hell. Like caring about the oppressed and unfortunate. Jesus wouldn’t do that, would he? Nah, he’s be having cocktails and cigars with Rush Limbaugh and various CEOs, bribing officials to look the other way when his oil pipelines ruined the land.

        • Wayne says:

          What a charming, wonderful little troll you are. Look behind you at all times, for His Noodly Appendage hovers, just waiting to Touch you.

        • ReligiousCyclops says:

          Listen, Mr. Spaghetti Sauce

          Liberals are going to hell. They are all for “social justice” and changing society to care about the “oppressed and unfortunate”. Jesus does not want us to waste our time trying to change society or work for “justice” as you liberals call it. Jesus is about changing men’s hearts not society. Don’t you know that you are justified by faith, faith alone. You only need to believe. Stop trying to do good works. The Lord will judge you for wasting your time with “good works” and not having faith in him alone. The Lord will judge you and cast you into a lake of fire unless you become a true believer. Good works will not get you to heaven. You must be born again, get instant salvation in the flash of an eye. The only good work Jesus wants you to do is get saved, become a born again christian then work to get other people saved. You need to change man’s hearts, change, remake the individual, not society. Don’t forget good old fashion Protestant individualism and capitalism. Jesus message has nothing to do with a “just society” or “the poor”. Liberals will say “if you want peace you must work for justice”. That is nonsense. If you want peace all you have to do is believe in Jesus and get saved. We will aways have the poor. Some people are poor because they refuse to embrace good old fashion calvanist Protestant capitalism. Much of that refusal is to to sinful liberal and Catholic influences in our society today.

          Sounds like you’ve been hanging around with a bunch of Catholics with all their talk about good works and charity. They are NOT true Christians and they will NOT be among the redeemed. Get away from this spaghetti religion nonsense and become a true Christian, a born again evengelical fundamentalist Protestant. Remember true Christianity did not began with an early group of believers 2000 years ago. True Christianity began with the puritan reformers in England and Martin Luther proclaiming the primacy of scripture, turning away from the teaching authority of the Popish Roman church which is a false church. They sought to purge their church of Romanism. True Christians in history include wonderful leaders such as Oliver Cromwell. For the greater glory of God he and his army marched into Drogeda, Ireland and successfully slaughtered every man woman and child. They were heathens and this he did for the greater glory of God. Cromwell drove all of the heathen Irish into the barren rocky west of Ireland. Another great Christian leader was John Nelson Darby. He invented premillenial dispensationalism although the religious liberals of his day falsely declared him to be a heretic.

          I am a troll for Jesus looking for souls to bring to repentance. You need to turn to God and his loving mercy. The only other paths lead to hell fire damnation for all. Stop worrying about the “oppressed and unfortunate”. There is nother more unfortunate than spending an eternity in hell.

        • Keith says:

          I cannot accept that someone so obsessed with Judaeo- Christian mythology would refer to himself in terms of a creature of Pagan mythology. Surely that would piss his unforgiving god off in some way? Citing Cromwell as a paragon of virtue points to (to put it diplomatically) a very strange outlook on life.

        • SillyKiwiMan says:

          Everyone,

          Most of us probably consider ourselves clever enough not to fall for obvious scams (religion) and sharp enough to recognise satire. Missing the obvious nature of Religious Cyclops’ rather funny posts belittles us all. Think before you post, and like most things, if it seems to good to be true, it probably is. The god squad don’t often offer themselves on a plate like this, unless they’re retarded or mentally ill, at which point we don’t need to kick them when they’re down. They’re hobbled enough by being fucktards.

        • Alphy says:

          Whoosh! …over the head of Gabe

      • Gabe says:

        @TheFewTheProudTheMarinara
        It’s a widely held Christian belief that Hell was a result of separation from God, not a part of his creation.
        @ReligousCyclops
        I hope you’ve realized by now that you are very far off from the central Christian perspective. I also wish that you’d be willing to look at the world from a different lens, or at least use you’re own, instead of angering people with a fake perspective.

        • SillyKiwiMan says:

          Gabe, Religious Cyclops is a parody.

          He’s taking the piss out of born-again fundies. We get people like him, but if you read between the lines (which are VERY far apart) it’s not hard to tell that he’s fishing for reactions from people trying to justify their beliefs, typically born-again fundiesm.

          Besides, I thought you lot believed your god created everything. Therefore hell. If your god didn’t create hell, but somehow through one of his agents, satan, man etc. did, then that still means that responsibility lays with him fyor permitting it. Don’t even start with that “free will” shit when a newborn can be condemned through your perverse notion of original sin. This is not a separation from your god, but but a feeble attempt for you & your ilk to justify the inexcusable & reconcile the ridiculous. By ridiculous, I truly do mean worthy of ridicule.

          Welcome back. Nice to see you missed the obvious. Again.

        • Alphy says:

          Hey, Gabe,

          When are you going to wake up and smell the coffee?

        • TheFewTheProudTheMarinara says:

          Well, if I and others are to be separated from god for eternity, there is one ray of hope. Tell me the sinners can’t throw a party better than the BuyBull pounders?!?

        • TiltedHorizon says:

          Gabe,

          ReligousCyclops is a Poe. (someone who is pretending to be a fundamentalist who actually is not) Give one-eyed willie the attention deserved; none.

          “widely held Christian belief”

          You don’t speak for Christianity Gabe. You can certainly explain your perspective but don’t make the mistake in thinking your version of Christianity is followed by all or most. Here is a counter explanation:

          “Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels.” – Matthew 25:41

          Based on this verse, ‘Hell’ was prepared (i.e. created by god) for the Devil and his angels. As the ‘Devil and his angels’ predate Adam & Eve it means ‘hell’ is not a byproduct of humanity’s separation from god. This is also a ‘held Christian belief’.

        • ReligiousCyclops says:

          Mr. TiltedHorizon,

          You, Sir, are an agent of Satan!

        • Wayne says:

          Yes, he is Agent 108, and instead of an Aston Martin he rides an armoured Harley Davidson with a skulls’ head on the front, which booms out Motorhead as he rides past!

        • Gabe says:

          I know religious Cyclops is faking. Don’t take my message out of context. I was trying to communicate that this fake perspective shouldn’t define Christianity as a whole. It’s probably useless, since he’s a Poe.

          “Besides, I thought you lot believed your god created everything. Therefore hell. If your god didn’t create hell, but somehow through one of his agents, satan, man etc. did, then that still means that responsibility lays with him fyor permitting it. Don’t even start with that “free will” shit when a newborn can be condemned through your perverse notion of original sin.”

          Well, I can’t represent my “lot” entirely, because there are multiple perspectives throughout Christianity. There are Christians who believe that God created hell for the purpose of punishment, but I don’t agree with that. Also, Satan is not an agent of God, even though God created him. Satan became corrupt and took his own path, thus becoming absent from God.

          I’m not trying to tell you guys that I know everything, but rather communicate what I observe. I believe humans are born good, so there’s my perspective on newborns.

        • POE's LAW says:

          Gabe, you need to study your Bible a little closer. The concept of Original Sin is basic to all of Christianity. Otherwise, what purpose did Jesus serve if not to provide salvation from sin? You are making up your own version of Christianity as you go along, but that’s OK, there’s already a multitude of versions.

        • Gabe says:

          My thoughts DO come from the Bible. Though, you’re right. Perhaps i should spend more time studying it. My thoughts also come from Bible sturdy groups and other church experiences. If you look at the Bible, it’s not hard to find that sin is a form of separation. Jesus died to save us from the powers of sin and death.

        • Gabe says:

          My thoughts also come from experiences elsewhere, not just church. I also spend time studying the Bible, though routine gets in the way.

        • Gabe says:

          “Gabe, it’s not a matter of disagreement. You do not like what has been presented here by Pastafarians, and so you prefer to retreat to your comfortable religious paradigm. The most painful aspect for you, no doubt, has been that you have been forced to examine some of the ideas about religion that you held as absolutes.”

          I said what I said because I’m tired of argument after argument. And there are things about my faith I don’t have absolutes about. It’s okay to raise questions of things you aren’t sure about, but I don’t find it correct to make an immediate conclusions. The things I’ve been communicating are certain questions I’ve raised in the past and have been discussed with multiple people and i’ve thought about them for myself.

          ‘As George Carlin said, when he decided to become a sun worshipper, “unlike some other gods I could mention, I can see the sun.”’

          This, of course, focuses heavily on what you can see. But what about presence?

        • SillyKiwiMan says:

          Great, the old laws have changed. Which ones?

          I’m now able to kill (congratulations on a clear, consice and persuasive answer to the questions I asked about that commandment. Oh, hang on, no, you’ve failed, again, to answer a simple question. Must be too hard), worship false idols, eat pigs, lie, steal etc. I suppose my “multiple perspective” of this makes it ok.

          Gabe, you’re now officially boring. You fail to answer our questions, I still want to know if you’ll believe our ways simply because they can’t be disproven, and the most fundamental aspect of our religion: Do you think intelligent design should be taught in science classes as an alternative to evolution?

        • Apprentice Frederic says:

          Gabe, I’ve always remembered with pleasure a remark that a philosophy professor once made to my class: “…It’s always embarrassing when two solipsists meet on the street…”. The trouble with your offensively lofty assumption of the special knowledge that your religious position gives you – knowledge obviously better than the narrow scientific perspective of verifiable knowledge incrementally gained – is that there is no agreement whatsover amongst all such claimants. “….angering people with a fake perspective…” is something all religionists (from those pushing human sacrifice thru thru those pushing jihad thru those pushing karmic redemption) do fairly well at. “Knowing” things that nobody else “knows” would seem to me to be a symption of mental illness.

        • Alphy says:

          That is a problem, Gabe

          Why do we all have to look at the world or life through a lens at all? Especially, your fundy Christian lens. Are we all incapabe of seeing things for what they are? Do I need a rose colored lens to see everything as a bed of roses. Or; do I need a fundamentalist proddy’s lens to see thing as you see them? For someone who claims to consider multiple points of view, you are very ignorant or just deliberately ignoring of the responses that have been posted in response to your crap. Geez us, Merry and Joe stuff. You are just like one of my neighbors. He says – “There is no such thing as different points of wiew. There is only truth.” He is a fundy too. He, like you, thinks all people should see life through a fundy’s lens just like him and his fellow fundies. Different point of view are tolerable, not acceptable, so long as they don’t contravene evanglelical fundamentalists protestant point of view or religious agenda. Right? try selling us more shit!

        • Alphy says:

          SillyKiwiMan,

          I appreciate your comments but Gabe will stay a fucking idiot until he dies. He reminds me of one of my uncles who was an alcoholic. My mother always said that id he fell into a vate of whiskey at a stillery he would successfully resisted all attempts to rescue him. Gabe is drunk on fundism and he like my uncle, the alcoholic, does not want to be rescued. Does anyone here really think that Gabe came here with a real appreciation of different points of view or to be enlightened? I don’t.

        • Gabe says:

          To be enlightened? Depends on what you call enlightened.

        • Gabe says:

          When I said “fake perspective” I meant something ReligiousCyclops himself did not believe.

          ‘“Knowing” things that nobody else “knows” would seem to me to be a symption of mental illness.’

          At what point have I said ,”I’m right and you’re wrong?” I take a different standpoint. You know things that I don’t know. I don’t tell you it’s a form of mental illness.

        • Gabe says:

          “I’m now able to kill (congratulations on a clear, consice and persuasive answer to the questions I asked about that commandment. Oh, hang on, no, you’ve failed, again, to answer a simple question. Must be too hard), worship false idols, eat pigs, lie, steal etc.”

          The most important commandment is to love your God and neighbor. The ten commandments are within this commandment, or rather, in the same spirit. Old laws such as dietary restrictions and circumcision changed.

          “I suppose my “multiple perspective” of this makes it ok.”

          Multiple perspectives is for the purpose of understanding the general SPIRIT of the Bible.

        • ReligiousCyclops says:

          Gabe, you should know by now that these people who post here do not love the Lord Jesus. You have been continuous playing into their bait. You have let them weaken your faith with the idea that there are other points of view. You should Know that there are no other points of view there is only truth.

          Ask Jesus to forgive you, Gabe for engaging with sinful secular humanists. Come home to our Lord Gabe. Jesus is calling….

          For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

        • Wayne says:

          No, we love Raptor Jesus. He looks much, much cooler than the boring Caucasian European version, and since He is regularly on facebook memes from decent pages then obviously he has more #SWAG too.

          For God so loved the world that he gave us Westboro Baptists, three instruction manuals on how to keep people stupid and an old man with Pokeballs to fit all the animals in the world in a wooden boat.

        • HotEnema says:

          More incessant Crap!

          When are you fundies going to realize that I am the Almighty, the only God, I am the Almighty Hot Enema. I alone can clean your soul. I alone can get you out of yourself. Come to me, Gabe. Come to me, Cyclops. You will feel so much better after having a personal relationship with me, the Lord God of hosts, the Almighty Lord God, the Hot Enema himself!

      • Gabe says:

        ‘Bible sturdy’ should be ‘bible study’.

        • Gabe says:

          Also, I my statements on humans being born good is only referring to the way they start out. Sin is still a factor in the world.

        • Keith says:

          “Sin” is a construct of human society. What is sin in one generation or one society may be perfectly acceptable in another (eg. exposing unwanted babies on a mountain side or marrying your mother or sister, killing female children). If Jesus (assuming he ever existed) died to save us fom sin was he thinking of Hindus, Buddhists, Greco-Romans and Confucians? The determination of sin does not rely on the edicts of Judaeo-Christian mythology but rather on the arbitrary decision on what preserves society.

        • SillyKiwiMan says:

          “Sturdy” should never be used in conjunction with the bible. It’s flimsy as hell.

          If I were to open a medical text, such as Gray’s Anatomy (don’t even get me started on the co-opting of such a book for a crappy bloody drama series) and see an early anatomical sketch, where the artist had drawn in a series of pistons & valves (this is, in fact, how the early anatomists, ie Galen, thought some things worked) then I would be safe in assuming that this is not a book to be taken seriously in a modern context, and that it should never have been taken seriously in the first place. It was an attempt to answer questions based on what people thought should happen, rather than following evidence. Similarly, the Egyptians had great trouble explaining why the brain even existed, because they thought it didn’t do anything.

          Your bible is a collection of tales relling people what to do, based on ideaology, rather than evidence. “Gays are bad” says the Fundie. “Why? Where’s the evidence of harm?” says the non-retard. “Because, um, the bible says so, and I DON’T LIKE ‘EM” says the Fundie. “Great, you’re an oxygen thief” says the non-retard.

          Thus, when I see a book like your bible, full of contradictory stories, and things that are flat-out wrong, or so implausible that Santa and the Easter Bunny look credible, I won’t take it seriously, nor can I take seriously anyone who does.

          I’ve always detested those who cherry-pick. When confronted with the genocides, talking snakes, floods etc. they say “Oh, but that’s just a metaphor”. At what point is anything in this book not metaphorical? When it suits them. “I choose to believe that these bits are literal, and these bits are metaphorical” is one hell of a cop-out. They’ve either only read the bits their indoctrinators have told them to read, or have found something that contradicts something else, and explain away the bit they don’t like as a “metaphor”. Great.

          Scientific paradigms can sometimes appear to be at odds. Often with the more difficult concepts, things appear to be at odds, on the surface, but aren’t. (ie. negative temperature, where things are actually getting hotter, but entropy decreases. A real mind-fuck, and impossible to explain to anyone who doesn’t understand that our scale is arbitrary, and things should really be measured in Kelvins) The thing is, nobody reads scientific literature as uses it as a rule book for how to live a life, or to tell others what they can and can’t do. Science is also understood to be the best explanation that we have given our current understanding, but this will change in light of new evidence. There are a few things that have been “proven” (I know too many god-squad who at the point where I say that science is plastic say “Ha! So you don’t really ‘know’, you just think you do. We have faith, which is stronger than ‘knowledge’.”) such as the speed of light in a vacuum, which makes it impossible for the universe to be the age that YECs want it to be. I’ve even had someone try to tell me that obviously their god changed the speed of light after creating everything. Fucking genius.

          Humans experience bias, and science is no exception. Science, however, is happy to be questioned, accepts change, doesn’t try to hang onto power for the sake of having power, discriminate, treat people like second-class citizens for the lives they lead, and most importantly, develops a theory to explain a phenomenon rather than seeking evidence to support theory, and relies on said evidence other than “because I say so”.

          You, and everyone are free to have the most preposterous beliefs. Your brain is your own. Our place is not to tell you that you can’t think what you want. We just don’t want it in science class when it just isn’t science. Keep it in mythology where it belongs.

        • TheFewTheProudTheMarinara says:

          The BuyBull is not a book to be tossed aside lightly. It should be thrown with great force.

        • Gabe says:

          “The determination of sin does not rely on the edicts of Judaeo-Christian mythology but rather on the arbitrary decision on what preserves society.”

          Don’t think of sin as a list of things we can or cannot do. It’s not the action itself that makes it a sin, but the motive/spirit behind the action and the affect it will have on other people.

        • Keith says:

          Fine: Ten people are in a desert. The group is comprised of three adults and seven children under twelve years of age. never mind how they got there, this is hypothetical. There is not enough water to sustain them all for the journey either forward or back. Whatever happens, four people must die to save the remaining six. It is agreed that there must be at least one adult living to guide the remaining children, preferably two. None of the children want to die. they want to live while someone else dies in their stead. One adult (say, a female) volunteers to die and says that she will take her two children with her so that the others may live. Despite the protests of the children the mother kills them and herself anyway so that the others may live. One adult kills him/herself and somehow the remaining group make their way out of the desert. Who, if any, committed a sin and why?

        • Gabe says:

          ‘“Sturdy” should never be used in conjunction with the bible. It’s flimsy as hell.’

          That was a typo. I meant bible STUDY groups.

          “I’ve always detested those who cherry-pick. When confronted with the genocides, talking snakes, floods etc. they say “Oh, but that’s just a metaphor”. At what point is anything in this book not metaphorical?”

          Remember that the Bible was written in way for there to be a common understanding throughout multiple time periods, so I don’t think it’s wrong to consider multiple contexts to increase our understanding of the message. And when it comes down to it, it’s the message that’s the most important thing. I don’t quite understand the whole Noah’s ark thing, either. But, I think it wouldn’t be right to come up with an immediate answer without giving it much thought, ranging from “it didn’t happen at all” to “it was a metaphor”. I know the Bible can seem quite self contradictory at times, but what must be realized is that the Bible isn’t for copying and pasting. People have to think about what it means, or they’ll just go along with the group.

        • Gabe says:

          @Keith
          Well, my statement about motives is probably the concept that raises the most questions for this scenario. The motives in this case were to save the others, so the answer to this one would be no, it wouldn’t be a sin.
          I know you said ‘never mind how they got there’, but how they got there raises more questions about the concept of sin. One thing to understand is that sin isn’t only committed by humans. Perhaps committed is the wrong word, because sin is a general spirit of absence from God in the world. Suffering is a part of that absence, so the whole thing was all a matter of sin, weather or not the situation was their fault.

        • SillyKiwiMan says:

          I realise that “sturdy” was a typo. That whooshing noise was my joke going over your head.

          I would like you to actually answer a question. Is the bible literal or metaphorical? A simple yes or no will do. I appreciate that these things are seen in shades of gray, so I’ll give you an out. If it’s both, then which parts are literal, and which parts are metaphorical?

          I’m calling bullshit on the whole “Remember that the Bible was written in way for there to be a common understanding throughout multiple time periods, so I don’t think it’s wrong to consider multiple contexts to increase our understanding of the message.” thing. It was written by bronze-age people, to explain the inexplicable, and lay down some rules by which to live, with the threat of eternal damnation hanging over their heads if they stepped out of line.

          Also, regarding the who-lives-who-dies scenario, how about something literally written in stone (as you believe): Thou shalt not kill. It really shouldn’t matter the scenario, the “rules” are pretty clear.

          His holy noodliness figured that people should be aware that killing, stealing etc. was just not very nice, and didn’t have to patronise us by writing it down. It’s akin to those who say that without your teachings and concept of sin, there’s nothing to stop people running amok. I think there is. Most of us aren’t complete arseholes who need a story-book to tell us that treating others like shit is a bad thing to do. If that’s the only thing stopping you god-squadders from going off the deep end, then please keep reading it.

          The Noah’s ark thing is really rather simple too. It’s crap. Not only is it implausible, it’s utterly nonsensical. Using it to explain the great extinctions (there have been more than one, just for the record) is the most pathetic of arguments. Once again, answer me a question: When a book is full of things that just don’t add up, when do put it in the “right, this is bullshit” basket?

          The reason things in the bible seem contradictory is simple. They are. Not “seem”, just good old fashioned are.

          One more question, so what does the bible “mean”? How are we to take this great “meaning” from it? Is the meaning in the old testament, where we have to cut bits of our cocks off to identify the chosen people, and not eat bacon, or is it where I’m (ironically) doomed to eternal suffering by a peace-loving hippy if I don’t go to your god via him? Is a Jew who has lived a life of peace and bettered mankind going to hell because of a clerical error (pun intended, but I don’t expect you to get it) and at what point, given that your hippy stick-zombie was Jewish, did it become ok to eat bacon & leave your dick intact?

          (ok, there was more than one question there, but frankly I expect you to evade them all by asking waffly unanswerables of your own anyway, but what the hell, you’re never going to start thinking analytically until you grow up a lot)

        • Keith says:

          OK Gabe. In answer to your comment about how our unfortunates came to be in the desert, they were teleported there by the same sadistic god who commanded Abraham to sacrifice his son and who also rewarded one of his faithful by having an idle bet with “the” devil and deliberately engineered misfortunes to prove his point. Incidentally, as you have been intimating in your posts that Jesus was such a wonderful guy you might want to check this little collection out. http://www.skeptically.org/newtestament/id12.html

        • TiltedHorizon says:

          “Who, if any, committed a sin and why?”

          It was the daughter of Eve the apple eater of course, the hypothetical woman. As explained in 1 Timothy 2:12:

          “I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, she must be silent.”

          Who the @#$% told that @$%^ing $%$^ to speak!?!? To ‘volunteer’ she would have had open her @#%$ing mouth, clearly she had no right to do so. Stupid %@&$#! BURN IN HELL hypothetical woman!

        • Alphy says:

          Keith, thanks for the link you provided. I copied the section below from it.

          “Was Jesus Peaceable And Compassionate?
          The birth of Jesus was heralded with “Peace on Earth,” yet Jesus said, “Think not that I am come to send peace: I came not to send peace but a sword.” (Matthew 10:34) “He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.” (Luke 22:36) “But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.” (Luke 19:27. In a parable, but spoken of favorably.)

          The burning of unbelievers during the Inquisition was based on the words of Jesus: “If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.” (John 15:6)

          Jesus looked at his critics “with anger” (Mark 3:5), and attacked merchants with a whip (John 2:15). He showed his respect for life by drowning innocent animals (Matthew 8:32). He refused to heal a sick child until he was pressured by the mother (Matthew 15:22-28).

          The most revealing aspect of his character was his promotion of eternal torment. “The Son of man [Jesus himself] shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.” (Matthew 13:41-42) “And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched.” (Mark 9:43)

          Is this nice? Is it exemplary to make your point with threats of violence? Is hell a kind, peaceful idea?

          Did Jesus Promote “Family Values”?
          “If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.” (Luke 14:26)

          “I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man’s foes shall be they of his own household.” (Matthew 10:35-36)

          When one of his disciples requested time off for his father’s funeral, Jesus rebuked him: “Let the dead bury their dead.” (Matthew 8:22)

          Jesus never used the word “family.” He never married or fathered children. To his own mother, he said, “Woman, what have I to do with thee?” (John 2:4)”

          So, this is the mild meek Jesus. Aye?

        • Gabe says:

          As far as these examples go, I don’t understand them either. However, multiple interpretations could be offered. I know you’re probably thinking it’s a ridiculous and biased thing to say, but I think it would be less biased to consider multiple perspectives.
          Examples of old law changing can be seen in the book of Acts.

        • Gabe says:

          Perhaps we’re at a point where we should agree to disagree.

        • Atsap Revol says:

          Gabe, it’s not a matter of disagreement. You do not like what has been presented here by Pastafarians, and so you prefer to retreat to your comfortable religious paradigm. The most painful aspect for you, no doubt, has been that you have been forced to examine some of the ideas about religion that you held as absolutes. Sure, much of the Bible is written in a way that is not straight-forward. But how can you pick and choose what is metaphor and what is literal? You can’t. If there is a god and if he had intended the Bible to be his main communication with mankind, he did a lousy job. If his main criterion for gaining everlasting life is belief in him, there are so many ways he could have provided concrete means accomplish that.

          As George Carlin said, when he decided to become a sun worshipper, “unlike some other gods I could mention, I can see the sun.”

        • HotEnema says:

          You are right on, Atsap Revol

          Gabe, like so many fundies, can not deal with dissonance even if doing so resulted in liberation of mind and spirit. Gabe, like so many fundies, is afraid of change. They are so very comfortable being conservatism, so very comfortable with not having to change. So, they they seach for ideas, no matter how unrealistic and irrational, that are consonate with what they feel and believe. They want and try to build consonace with others because that reinforces their comfort zones. They do not want to see that accepting and dealing with changes mentally and spiritually may be challenging and uncomfortable but in the long run it can be liberating. Some people don’t want to be liberated. They see any kind of dissonance as a threat to them and those who share their beliefs. They have become so comfortable being slaves to the masters of the fundamentalists pulpits. People like Gabe simply can not deal with the sometimes painful dissonance that comes withthe process of liberating one mind. Maybe, Gabe is a Poe too. Acting as if he appreciates diversity and other poiints of view but secretaly still cling to warm comfortable cocoon of fundamentalism.

          What Gabe needs is me. I am the Almighty Hot Enema. I can get him out of himself

        • Keith says:

          Here, for those who are interested, is a short essay outlining various modern interpretations of the Christian bible. I get the impression from reading it that the book is interpreted according to the state of one’s liver. Of course, my interpretation of the text could be due to a dysfunctional liver…. http://www.biblicalstudies.org.uk/article_trans_metzger4.html

        • HotEnema says:

          Gabe, did included this in one of your posts -

          “However, multiple interpretations could be offered. I know you’re probably thinking it’s a ridiculous and biased thing to say, but I think it would be less biased to consider multiple perspectives.”

          “I think it would be less biased to consider multiple perspectives.” That’s what you do? Right? Consider “multiple’ perspectives” Then choose, the ones that conveniently give support to your sacred, oh so comfortable, avoid the pain of change, the pain of truth conservative religious cacoon

        • Alphy says:

          Gabe,

          You need to ge together with HotEnema!

        • Gabe says:

          Gabe, it’s not a matter of disagreement. You do not like what has been presented here by Pastafarians, and so you prefer to retreat to your comfortable religious paradigm. The most painful aspect for you, no doubt, has been that you have been forced to examine some of the ideas about religion that you held as absolutes.”

          I said what I said because I’m tired of argument after argument. And there are things about my faith I don’t have absolutes about. It’s okay to raise questions of things you aren’t sure about, but I don’t find it correct to make an immediate conclusions. The things I’ve been communicating are certain questions I’ve raised in the past and have been discussed with multiple people and i’ve thought about them for myself.

          ‘As George Carlin said, when he decided to become a sun worshipper, “unlike some other gods I could mention, I can see the sun.”’

          This, of course, focuses heavily on what you can see. But what about presence?

        • Gabe says:

          I have question for you all: why are you pastafarians?

        • Gabe says:

          Or, rather, what is pastafarianism about?

        • SillyKiwiMan says:

          I guess the whole “about” tab is too difficult for Gabe to grasp.

          Gabe, you’re free to have your beliefs. We don’t want them shoved down our throats, and we don’t want superstition in science class. It’s that simple.

          Feel free to disagree with us, but don’t forget, YOU came into OUR domain. Don’t be surprised if we don’t take your opinions seriously. You’ve failed at every turn to answer our questions, missed the point with almost everything we’ve posed for you to ponder, and basically shown yourself to be incapable of the “multiple perspectives” that you waffle on about. Either the bible is right, or not, the fact that you claim to sit on a fence to a degree (when we all know that you’re not interested in changing your view) just means you’ll get a post up your arse. You may as well be honest and say that you think the life dictated by the bible is the only way we should live our lives, and that we’re all nasty heathens going to burn.

          Stale beer & diseased strippers for you.

          By the way, how about you try to prove our beliefs wrong? If you can find conclusive evidence (your story book is NOT evidence) that we’re wrong, and that His Holy Noodliness doesn’t exist, then we’ll talk again.

        • Gabe says:

          Perhaps the way I have described my thinking process suggests that I sit on a fence, but that wasn’t my intention. I was trying to say that it’s possible to free-think if you follow Christianity.
          You say that I’ve failed to consider you’re points and questions. But I HAVE considered them. Don’t think that I haven’t just because I don’t agree with the assertions they make. As far as far as my failure to answer questions, let me know what questions they are (besides the omnipotence paradox).

        • SillyKiwiMan says:

          The questions I posed earlier would be a good place to start. Try the one about whether or not the bible is literal or not. Have you figured out the “about” tab yet?

        • SillyKiwiMan says:

          Actually, here’s a few more questions:

          Do you have any evidence that we’re wrong? No trying to use your bible as evidence. We have a book too, and I doubt you’d accept it as proof.

          YECs reckon the earth is 6000 or so years old. The only “evidence” is the bible. The geological record, independently verified many times over indicates an age closer to 4 billion years. Which is correct?

          The speed of light in a vacuum is well known. So well known in fact that the metre has been redefined in terms of C. Knowing this constant, we can date the age of the universe to about 13.7 billion years. Is the speed of light wrong, or your creation myth?

          When the bible contradicts itself, ie. ISA 14:21 Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities. vs. DEU 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin. Which of these are we to believe? No bullshit about “multiple perspectives” or context. It’s there in black and white, so which is it? Do I pay for my fathers cock-ups or not?

          Give them a shot. Always remember though. Even if we are wrong, it doesn’t automatically make you right.

        • Gabe says:

          I have figured out the “about” tab. I was asking for personal reasons or explanations of what it is. Perhaps that was unnecessary.
          I’ll give your questions consideration.

        • Alphy says:

          I quess us heathens keep forgeting that the buybull is “self interpreting”. So I’ve been told by a variety of fundies. If one passage is contradictory or doesn’t make sense with another passage, there will be yet another passage that can be used to explain away the inconsistancies. Keep in mind that with God “nothing is impossible”. Not even walking self contradicting scripture quoting buybullators.

        • SillyKiwiMan says:

          I don’t hold out much hope. At least not much for the simple black or white answers that I’d like to see. I really upset one born-again simpleton I worked with by asking him why christians can eat bacon when they’re supposed to live a life like Jeebus.

          He, like Gabe, tried to waffle about what omnnipotence really meant. Then I realised that he was in fact increadibly stupid, and that it was actually beyond his capability to grasp what I was talking about. (seriously, the guy was a thicko. He’s an apprentice electrician, who struggles to grasp Ohm’s law, I forsee him removing himself from the gene pool one day) He didn’t even get the question about bacon. I had to explain that Jeebus was a Jew, and Jews aren’t supposed to eat bacon.

          Think about the questions all you like Gabe, but these are questions with yes-or-no type answers, and that’s what I expect.

        • Gabe says:

          First of all, I would like to say that answers aren’t black and white. An individual SHOULD be abled to consider multiple viewpoints and not just rely on the beliefs of their group because belief needs a personal aspect to it. In other words, personal belief comes first and the group serves the purpose of support in that believe. It isn’t just sitting on a fence.

          “Do you have any evidence that we’re wrong? No trying to use your bible as evidence. We have a book too, and I doubt you’d accept it as proof.”

          No, I can’t disprove the FSM. The FSM mirrors the situation of scientific proof or disproof when it comes to God. However, there’s an aspect that’s not really taken much into consideration; internal-reliance. This resembles the situation with emotion. Although psychology has scientific patterns and recordings when it comes to emotion, one doesn’t need scientific proof in order for them to believe in their own emotions. It’s a similar situation with belief in God. Even though psychology doesn’t offer evidence of God, one who has experienced God believes because of their own internal experience. Similar to how one believes in their own emotions because they have experienced their own emotions. Internal presence of God is of the individual. People can heavily rely on what is seen, when internal-reliance is also important.

          “YECs reckon the earth is 6000 or so years old. The only “evidence” is the bible. The geological record, independently verified many times over indicates an age closer to 4 billion years. Which is correct?”

          I don’t remember the Bible ever directly saying that the world is 6,000 years old and I don’t doubt the geological record. I don’t know all the answers as to how the world began, but I don’t believe the Bible contradicts the geological record, or the other way around.

          “The speed of light in a vacuum is well known. So well known in fact that the metre has been redefined in terms of C. Knowing this constant, we can date the age of the universe to about 13.7 billion years. Is the speed of light wrong, or your creation myth?”

          Once again, I don’t doubt these scientific discoveries. However, I don’t believe it contradicts the Bible. The Bible doesn’t provide specific numbers as far creation goes. Except for the 7 days. One interpretation is that the 7 days could’ve been 7 phases of time.

          “When the bible contradicts itself, ie. ISA 14:21 Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities. vs. DEU 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin. Which of these are we to believe? No bullshit about “multiple perspectives” or context. It’s there in black and white, so which is it? Do I pay for my fathers cock-ups or not?”

          I’ve found that it often helps to look at the entire situation and first figure out the message behind it, because the Bible isn’t straight-forward all the time. As I said earlier, the Bible isn’t for copying and pasting. If too much time is spent on the surface of the words, then it’ll take away from the core message.
          As for these examples, I read the chapter in Isaiah and it appears to describe what is to become of oppressors of Israel and how the oppression is to be stopped. Deuteronomy is describing Jewish law. As far as immediate answer is concerned, I don’t really know what it is.

        • Gabe says:

          The last question will require more consideration.

        • SillyKiwiMan says:

          Ever heard of temporal lobe epilepsy?

          Emotions, while not quantifiable, are real to those who experience them. Your feeble attempts to invoke psychology are laughable. We’re not talking about anger or happiness. We’re talking about an invisible sky-fairy, who is simultaneously responsible for everything, and nothing (whichever suits the moment for you, this whole “multiple perspective” thing is very shizophrenic) who has laid down some rules that we’re meant to follow because we have “free will” (look at Skinner’s work if you must insist on referencing psycology) yet will punish people for eternity, just because they haven’t been baptised if they die too soon after birth.

          Just what the hell are these “multiple” perspectives of which you speak? I’d really like some clarification. You either missed the question I asked a while ago, or more likely chose to ignore it. Is killing a sin? It’s supposed to be one of your commandments. It’s etched in stone, so a simple yes or no here. You can say that it’s contextual all you want, but it kind of pulls the rug out from under things either being sinful or not (a simple binary situation) if there are suddenly shades of grey so that you can reconcile this crap.

          Disproving a negative is by definition impossible. I cannot disprove the existence of your god. I can, however, point out the implausibility, and the ridiculous nature of assertions made in the name of said god. Just like I can’t disprove Russel’s teapot, Jedi, or those heathens who worship the Invisible Pink Unicorn. If I’m to be expected to believe your story just because I can’t disprove it, then you have to believe mine. Quid pro quo.

          Muse on the last example all you like. Ask around (because I hold your abilitiy to think for yourself in particularly low regard since you mention your youth pastor. Had you spelt it Pasta, I may have formed an opinion that didn’t revolve around you being a moron) but when all’s said and done, it’s a contradiction. New vs old testament blah blah blah. It’s supposedly the word of god, either directly or through Jeebus, so it holds. Unless Jeebus was saying that his invisible daddy (himself apparently) was wrong. Oh, that’s right, he’s here to save us from sin. The sins that you believe exist, but we don’t. We don’t need to be told that it’s not nice to kill. Sometimes it’s a reality, nothing to be happy about, but if you need it pointed out to you, you’re wired a bit wrong. Oppression of Israel, time of war, freeing of a people, all that shit doesn’t matter. Either killing people for the wrongs of their forebears is fine, or it ain’t. For the record, what in the scientific world is considered a fact is something that can be proven. You change a variable, and the result changes. Not “I feel it, so it’s true, because I can’t handle that I’m wrong”.

          Why can christians who are supposed to live like Jeebus eat bacon and have intact penises? Riddle me that. With regard to your replies to the other two questions, you’re an idiot. Your ICR disputes the scientifically valid estimated ages of the Earth and cosmos. You’re putting a slant on things with your “7 phases” cop-out. (So tell me, what are these phases? When did one phase end and another begin? What constitues a phase? How long was each phase. What evidence is there that there were these phases. The expansion of the universe has been accelerating since it’s inception, with no evidence that it has changed its rate, meaning ONE 13.7 billion year-old phase) If I can arbitrarily change the passage of time to suit me, then fantastic. I’m 25 again. You can’t argue with me, because I “feel” it. (actually that’s bullshit, my knees feel about 90 some days)

        • Alphy says:

          I feel it. So it must be true. It’s an internal emotional truth. Geez us Merry and Joe stuff, Gabe. You sure serve up the crap. You think like a paranoid schizophrenic. I doubts that much of your thinking is independent. I believe you have been very heavily indoctrinated and there are those in your safe little religious cocoon who want to keep you that way. Pick and choose all your multiple view points and endless nonsensical explanations. I’ve heard the 7 days is 7 creation phases crap all too often from fundies. It’s crap I has been proven the the earth is several billion years old. Oh, suddenly I feel all warm and fuzzy. Oh, it must be Jeebeezus warming my heart. He is the truth… Incessant crap! Why don’t you go and become a “creation scientist”. Creationism is religion and as such ought not have any place in the science classroom.

          Emotions are feelings, they are not facts. It may be factual that you have feelings but those feelings are certainly not concrete facts. Just because I feel something does not make it an external concrete reality for others. “I feel Geez us in my heart.” Bullshit! It’s all in your screwed up fundy head. You worship a figment of your imagination, not a real living corporeal entity. You need to deal with empirically verified reality that falls under sensory perception (see, touch and smell), not the imaginary God that is his own daddy in your head. By the way I was born of a virgin too.

        • TheFewTheProudTheMarinara says:

          Remember that if you have a “personal relationship” with someone whose never been seen, always refer to him as “god”. Most people will then respect you. Any other name, and as Alphy pointed out, you’ll be diagnosed as a paranoid schizophrenic. Yes, it’s possible for a Christian to question his faith. And if he’s honest with himself, he’ll at least lose his religion.

        • Gabe says:

          First of all, I’d like to point out that the idea that of God being an invisible magic-man in the clouds isn’t helpful for understanding. That idea creates many misconceptions through contradiction with in the assumed idea of who God is.
          Schizophrenia has a lot of stress involved in it. The presence I’m talking about is one of peace. Sometimes a peace that requires letting go of old ways. It’s the opposite of schizophrenia. It’s confronting in a way that gets you OUT of a cocoon.
          Let me point out the idea of a cocoon of scientific naturalism. A comfortable place that only accepts the answers of what can be seen.
          This is where there is disagreement; who is truly free and who isn’t.

        • Gabe says:

          And, SillyKiwiMan, to answer you question, the book of Acts tells of old law changing.

        • HotEnema says:

          Gabe,

          You are posting nothing but incessant rediculous fundamantalist crap. You are boring me and probably others to death with your always having an answer, no matter how rediculous, no matter how insane. Come, Come to me, Gabe. I am the Almighty Hot enema. I’ll get you out of yourself. I’ll save your shit filled soul!

        • TiltedHorizon says:

          “I know you’re probably thinking it’s a ridiculous and biased thing to say, but I think it would be less biased to consider multiple perspectives.”

          Which is why there are 180+ variations of Christianity in the US alone. All claiming to be the only ‘correct’ interpretation. How can they know for certain? They ‘feel’ it of course.

        • Keith says:

          In addition to a link I posted on January the 18th, some people may also be interested in this; http://www.harrington-sites.com/f5.htm

        • TiltedHorizon says:

          “Let me point out the idea of a cocoon of scientific naturalism. A comfortable place that only accepts the answers of what can be SEEN.”

          I can not SEE air, emotions, gravity, sounds, or smells but I can repeatably observe their effects.

        • Alphy says:

          When the Roman Empire fell Christianity began to spread. During the dark ages Christians spread their intellectual death all over Europe. At that time very few people, except for the wealthy or priests, could read. Most of those who could read, read very poorly. There were no books at all except for painstakingly written manuscripts available to only the wealthy and the Church. It was not until about 1450 that the first printed book appeared. The Bible was written in just Hebrew, Greek, and Latin. The ignorant uneducated masses were completely ignorant about it other than what priests told them and they told that they had to believe or be eternally damned. So, under these conditions, Christianity easily spread all over Europe.

          During the dark ages the Church and was at it’s heyday. So called ‘miracles’ and ‘exorcisms’ were common occurrences Much like they do today among the ignorant and superstitious in small cloistered rural towns, villages and religious enclaves. Miracle workers, medicine men and shamans took ill advantage of the weak minded masses. But not once was there ever a real miracle. There is just plain and simply no such thing as a miracle. Magicians or so called miracle workers are just masters of illusion with their bags of tricks. But during the dark ages, believe in miracles, imaginary afterlife horror chambers and all sorts of superstitious garbage contolled the gullible weak mined masses.

          Due to the dominion of Christanity the human intellect died; The mind was shut down. Man lived in darkness, hence the “dark ages“. That is what religion, not just Christianity, has done to humanity .All this happened when the Christian religion became entangled with the grand but decadent Roman Empire.

          Still today in our so very advanced Society. There are still those who if they could have their way drag us back into the dark ages. So, how ’bout it do we want our schools to teach our children creationism, so called “creation science” which is not science at all, or real unadulterated by fundies science? If we discover that we have a gay child, what are we going to do? Learn to accept and live with the fact or call an exorcist to cast an imaginary homosexual devil out of the child. Is it going to be ghosts, devils, demons, spirits, monsters, big foot “Nessy”or can we learn to deal with life without all this imaginary crap. If we can’t we can go and join those who are going to be raptured up into the clouds to be with Geezus. How ’bout you, Gabe? You want to be raptured. Right?

        • Gabe says:

          @TiltedHorizon
          “I can not SEE air, emotions, gravity, sounds, or smells but I can repeatably observe their effects.”
          Try to think about this statement in a spiritual sense.

        • Gabe says:

          Alphy, there’s no way we’ll go back to the dark ages. There have been way too many scientific break-throughs. Also, the problem with the dark ages were that the people were too mindlessly reliant on their religious figures. You seem to think religion is still that way, correct?

        • TiltedHorizon says:

          “Try to think about this statement in a spiritual sense.”

          Gabe, I presented examples which can be observed and tested to verify their existence. It is through such verifications that one distinguishes between the invisible and nonexistent. You in turn ask me to consider the statement in a “spiritual” sense without evidencing the existence of the spiritual.

          What you need to understand is that you are not addressing people who are foreign and unfamiliar with faith and religion. We are largely “ex” christians. In my case, Orthodox Catholic, and we have already considered these pro-faith arguments and found them wanting. So unless you are going to make an argument we have not already considered ourselves or add a perspective we missed then there is no “new evidence”. Which in Scientific (capital ‘S’) terms means, the existing conclusions stand.

        • TiltedHorizon says:

          “he problem with the dark ages were that the people were too mindlessly reliant on their religious figures”

          These days people are still “too mindlessly reliant” on faith. Look around, people are refusing medical treatment, refusing to give services, picketing funerals, rationalizing genocide, and using faith to instill fear. We are no longer in the “dark ages” but we still suffer with same problems.

        • SillyKiwiMan says:

          Still a deafening silence from Gabe regarding my questions. Hopefully all we get from him from now on is silence. For some who found Pastafarianism after false religions, remember how many times you brushed off the inconsistencies, ignored rational arguments, pretended your faith could overcome scientific proof. We may have planted a seed of intelligence in Gabe. He’s going to hear enough bullshit to fertilize it. He may yet grow. That or he’ll stay a fucking idiot till he dies.

        • Gabe says:

          Which questions did I leave out?

        • Gabe says:

          @TiltedHorizon
          Yes, we still suffer the same problems. However, not all religion is that way.

        • Gabe says:

          “Why can christians who are supposed to live like Jeebus eat bacon and have intact penises? Riddle me that.”
          As I have said before, the old law changed. Living a life like Jesus is more about how we treat others.

          “The Noah’s ark thing is really rather simple too. It’s crap. Not only is it implausible, it’s utterly nonsensical. Using it to explain the great extinctions (there have been more than one, just for the record) is the most pathetic of arguments. Once again, answer me a question: When a book is full of things that just don’t add up, when do put it in the “right, this is bullshit” basket?”
          When you look for immediate answers.

        • SillyKiwiMan says:

          Gabe, I’m not going to bother with you any more.

          Don’t take this as any sort of win on your part. Quite the opposite. I would engage you in debate if you were capable, but you lack the intellect & apparently literacy to actually read, understand & answer questions designed to think critically. You’ve trotted out the old shit we’ve all heard before, and you’ve actually impressed me by sinking to new cop-out lows.

          I would like to express my surprise at your lack of abuse. It’s the usual depth that your ilk stoop to. Unfortunately, a civil tongue doth not an intellect make.

          Yours in Pasta,

          Mark the Silly Kiwi Man.
          Yarrgh.

        • TiltedHorizon says:

          “Yes, we still suffer the same problems. However, not all religion is that way.”

          All the issues I mention are by groups who self identify as christian. Before you answer with the arbitrary, they follow the “wrong” interpretation, they are not “True Christian®”, they are the minority, etc. Let me remind you that they have the same ‘evidence’ you have.

          people are refusing medical treatment:

          http://www.religionnews.com/2013/01/17/citing-religion-some-health-workers-refuse-flu-shots/
          http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/oregon-couple-pleads-guilty-receives-probation-faith-healing-death-teen-son-article-1.1162793

          refusing to give services:

          http://kdvr.com/2012/07/30/denver-cake-shop-refuses-service-to-gay-couple/
          http://www.courthousenews.com/2012/06/08/47286.htm

          picketing funerals:

          http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/18/david-pakman-westboro-baptist-church-spar-picketing-school-shooting-funerals_n_2317769.html

          rationalizing genocide:

          http://www.advocate.com/society/religion/2012/05/21/north-carolina-preacher-charles-worley-wants-gay-people-put
          http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/07/scott-lively-kill-the-gays-bill-supporter-on-trial-crimes-against-humanity_n_2425003.html

          and using faith to instill fear:

          http://www.thenewage.co.za/77313-1020-53-Dutch_priest_to_display_photos_of_Church_quitters
          http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/santorum-colleges-indoctrinating-students-sea-antagonism-toward-christianity

          Here is a nice video showcasing some of the gifts religion has given us in the last 60 days:

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bO_3eSbLjyM&feature=youtu.be

        • Gabe says:

          SillyKiwiMan, one question for you: If God created the world, then without him the world could not exist. Which do you suppose, that God exists, or the world doesn’t?
          This is a yes or no question. Adding any new perspective is implausible because this question was structured in a way to help you think critically.

        • Atsap Revol says:

          “If God created the world, then without him the world could not exist. Which do you suppose, that God exists or the world doesn’t?”

          Gabe, if this is your best example of reasoning, we are not impressed. This is a silly statement that hinges on the word IF. You are trying to set up a truism that because the world exists there is a god who created it. This is the mindless dance of the Creationists and IDers.

          Out here in the American Northwest, the Native Americans believed that Raven created the world and brought light to the people. They also believed that thunder and lightning were caused when Thunderbird caught Killerwhale in the waters of the ocean or sound.

          Human cultures have sought simple explanations for phenomenon that are not self-evident. The Bible’s Genesis is just another version of Raven, as are the mythical creation stories of a multitude of other religions.

          You indicated that your question was structured in a way to help (us) think critically. We have thought through the cause and effect question long ago and concluded that the natural universe didn’t necessarily need a creator. Or if it did, then our beloved Flying Spaghetti Monster will serve as well as any other creator.

          Atsap Revol, BullshitBuster

        • Gabe says:

          I was afraid this might happen.
          I wasn’t trying to prove anything about the existence of God, Atsap Revol. I’m trying to show that yes or no answers shouldn’t have to constrain a belief. You all believe that the world formed on it’s own, and you can certainly explain that without having the nagging pain of dealing with a question that is formed in yes or no format. Juxtapose the structure of this question with SillyKiwiMan’s questions about creationism.

        • Gabe says:

          I realize that there’s questions I’ve left out. I wasn’t intentionally ignoring them. I’ll answer them. And if I leave any out, let me know. But don’t be disappointed if I don’t have a yes or no answer.

        • Gabe says:

          “Gabe, I presented examples which can be observed and tested to verify their existence. It is through such verifications that one distinguishes between the invisible and nonexistent. You in turn ask me to consider the statement in a “spiritual” sense without evidencing the existence of the spiritual.”

          What I meant was that spirituality shares similar characteristics as the things you mentioned. Spirituality cannot be visibly seen, but it can be observed. Not in a way that involves scientific data, but it can change people’s lives. Rediscovering my faith for myself has for me.
          I don’t expect people to take it as scientific data, but spirituality and science are two different things, and shouldn’t have to constrain each other. However, it doesn’t mean they’re unrelated.
          Check out this link. It really does use multiple sides (perhaps it could better show the concept than I have explained it). It makes interesting connections in terms of spirituality and science.
          http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/world-wide-mind/201212/can-science-shed-light-proof-heaven

          @SillyKiwiMan
          “Just what the hell are these “multiple” perspectives of which you speak? I’d really like some clarification.”
          The link might explain it a bit.

          “Is the bible literal or metaphorical? A simple yes or no will do. I appreciate that these things are seen in shades of gray, so I’ll give you an out. If it’s both, then which parts are literal, and which parts are metaphorical?”

          Events such as Noah’s ark aren’t necessarily metaphorical, but they don’t have to have a straight-forward meaning. some of the quotes of Jesus could easily be taken out of context, but some of his messages can be somewhat indirect to make a point. The Bible should be taken for the message.

          “Is killing a sin? It’s supposed to be one of your commandments. It’s etched in stone, so a simple yes or no here.”

          Yes.

        • Keith says:

          Well, I think we’ve had enough waffle. When waffle is backed up by further waffle it becomes double waffle. What is sandwiched between it? Why, it’s more waffle! I freely admit to being a middle aged curmudgeon but when I think that we have enough material to open our own small bore range something must have reached its used by date.

        • ReligiousCyclops says:

          Gabe,

          Did you say your prayers this morning? Satan is baiting you through these atheistic secular humanists. Have you asked Jesus to protect and guide you? Did you say your prayers last night? We ought to always pray as the Lord’s prayer says – “Lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil”.

          Gabe, you are being tempted by agents of Satan, devils in human form, and you need to ask the Lord to deliver you from these agents of Satan and return to the fold of the redeemed. Ask the Lord to forgive you for engaging sinful secular humanists. They will only lead you into the lake of fire with homosexuals and liberals. Jesus our redeemer is waiting to welcome you home and embraced you in his loving arms. Do you belong to a Bible believing church, Gabe?

        • Keith says:

          Is my interpretation wrong, or does “Cyclops” actually mean “Round Eye”?

        • EntirelySanctifiedNazarene says:

          Keith, I am concerned about your spiritual well being. Wouldn’t you like to be entirely sanctified, made perfect in mind and heart, by the gift of the Holy Spirit? Imagine being totally, entirely, sinless, entirely sanctified , Holy, through the gift of entire Sanctification. Give up these sinful humanist secular ramblings with devils clothed in sheep skin. Get saved then you can be entirely sanctified.

          Holiness unto the Lord. Now and forever!

        • Alphy says:

          Hey, EntirelySanctifiedNazarene, oh, so holy,

          Pog Mo Thoin!. In other words, “Kiss My Irish Ass!”

        • Alphy says:

          Hey,

          Where is Gabe?

          I need a Buybull shoved up my arse this morning. I would like Gabe to join us for Koolaide and fried shitgin. Gabe, where are you, my friend? You are not hanging around with Hot Enema are you? Stay away from him! He will wash Jesus right out of yer hart!

      • ReligiousCyclops says:

        Can’t you people see that this world has been infiltrated by satanic communists. They invented crisises so that they can bring themselves in and offer their solution. They want to be Gods. They are liberals and they are going to destroy our society. The government has went amok into communistic thinking. Obama is a communist, not a christain. Socialism is destroying America along with secular humanism. We need to purge the world of these evils. If you call yourself a christian make sure that you are not a socialist. Jesus and his beloved John Calvin want use to stop supporting homosexuals and liberals. You all need to turn to God and away from Joseph Stalin and communismism whish is satanism. If you are a Catholic, God loves you but you need to get out of that mess. They are part of the sataic new world order. Don’t be fooled by doing good works one must believe, by faith alone on the one Lord Jesus Christ and his gift of savation unto you. Yes unto you.

        • TheFewTheProudTheMarinara says:

          Well, I call myself a Pastafarian, not a Christian, so I guess it’s Ok for me to undermine society by being a liberal. I know, Socialism is so scary. America could turn out to be another Socialist hell-hole, like Great Britain or the Netherlands or Sweden.

        • Apprentice Frederic says:

          Religious Cyclops, if I thought you were serious, I would remark that your nom de plume reminded me of the old story about the guy who stuck a glass eye into his ass to surprise his proctologist. As it is, please take it as a compliment, you’re good enough to be real!

        • ReligiousCyclops says:

          When The Good Shepard Jesus returns to take the redeemed and purified into His fold, you will be on the outside looking in. You will be damned for all eternity to suffer the fires of hell in the bottomless pit. Don’t you know that salvation is just a heartbeat away when you accept Jesus as your personal savior? Get down on your knees before it is too late and turn to Christianity in all its wondrous blessings. Lift up your eyes to Heaven and worship the almighty Holy God who has dominion over all of His creation. Turn from Satanic Communism to the Truth and Light of a born again soldier for God. Liberalism is the spawn of satan, a trap to seduce you into materialistic beliefs that separate you from God’s mercy and love. Come to Jesus, dear sinner.

        • Gabe says:

          Religious Cyclops, you are presenting a false impression of Christianity. God will not be deceived by false statements about His Holy Church. Those who think different than you are not agents of satan.

        • TheFewTheProudTheMarinara says:

          When we are requested to “Lift up (our) eyes to Heaven”, does that apply to those in both the Northern AND Southern hemispheres? And since we can’t see heaven, what good is lifting our eyes? Also, the biggest capitalists tend to be conservative, not liberal, so isn’t conservatism the true materialistic trap? As the FSM once might have said, “It is easier for Rush Limbaugh to pass through the eye of a needle than for a conservative to reach the beer volcano”.

        • Gabe says:

          “Religious Cyclops, you are presenting a false impression of Christianity. God will not be deceived by false statements about His Holy Church. Those who think different than you are not agents of satan.”

          This wasn’t me. It was someone else who typed in the same name. Wouldn’t be surprised if it were ReligiousCyclops.

        • Keith says:

          Presumably we live on a flat Earth. Luke 4:5 , Matthew 4:8. “The” Devil takes Jesus to the top of a high mountain and shows him “all the Kingdoms of the world”.
          This is often used, along with the following: Ezekiel 7:2 “four corners of the land” Isaiah 11:12 “four corners of the Earth.” Job 37:3 and 38:13 “ends of the Earth” by flat Earth fundies to make their case. In Isaiah 40:22 the Earth is described as a “circle”, which apologists for the buybull say is a description of the earth being spherical. I say it is the description of the Earth as a circle.
          Incidentaly, for those out there who still cling to fantasies about Columbus, academics and sailors had known since the times of ancient Greece that the Earth was spherical. Even the Catholic church accepted the fact.

        • ReligiousCyclops says:

          That wasn’t my post. I assumed it was Gabe posing as me. He has neen posing here as a Christian for several weeks, so its not surprising that he would mock me and my true Christian messages. Come to Jesus, Gabe, you are a lost sheep that has strayed far from the fold of righteous, undefiled religious purity. Return to the simple uncomplicated truth as revealed in the Bible. This is God’s book and it is not subject to your loose interpretation and speculation. In Jesus name, amen.

        • ReligiousCyclops says:

          Hear e, Mr. TheFewTheProudTheMarinara,

          The Lord God is going to send you butt to hell!

        • Apprentice Frederic says:

          Cyclops, tFtPtM can certainly aanswer for himself. I think that he should be addressed with more respect than your “Mr.” When the final battle between Pastafariandom and all false religions takes place (Pastageddon???), look to your right and left and see Pat Robertson and Osama bin Laden. Look forward (unless you are retreating) and you will see a Field Marshal of the Marinara.
          Will you choose the cowardly and sensible path, and desert, or fall and be lost forever to the Vale of Vermicelli????

        • Wayne says:

          Of course, that’s right, a socialist communist secular humanist. Trust me, if he was a communist, you and your ilk would be behind bars in a gulag by now.

        • Cletus T. Biblethumper says:

          Dagnabbed lib’ruls! Takin’ ma Gaaard giv’n raaght ter derfiind ma fambly, lettin’ dem sinful wimmin be havin’ abortions, dem homo sexu-uls livin’ in sin! Decent, law abidin’ an’ Gaaard fearin’ ‘Muricans must oppose dis Lib’rul, Carrmanist, Marrxist, Muslim, sec-alar hooomanist gub’mint, a-cause thurr a-gonna take our guuns and gib the poor peoples health care!

        • AnybodysIdiot says:

          Gawwwd! is this pure unadulterated shit or what? Hey, Cyclops, are you a shit eater? You have shit for brains!

  6. Apprentice Frederic says:

    Religious Cyclops, I don’t believe for an instant that you are serious, and you are going to go to hell for your (to us liberals, matchless) satirization of what true Christians believe in: which is actually humility, compassion and tolerance. Not a Christian in a carload, as they used to say.

    • TheFewTheProudTheMarinara says:

      Frederic, I don’t believe Religious Cyclops is serious, either. I think his tongue is firmly in his cheek. It’s just that the Religious Wron..er, Right are so whacked out they can spew the most ridiculous, hilarious garbage while being totally serious.

      • Inge says:

        As our delicious fish-saucy-named fellow states correctly, the way and frequency the most absurd statements are made in absolute earnestness make it hard to tell fundis apart from trolls. Who knew I could wind up one day discussing dinosaur saddles and the max load of the arch…

      • Alphy says:

        You are right, Marinara

        Cyclops is playing the whacked out fundies. He’s playing them good. But Geez us, full of holes mudder of Gawd, Merry an Joestuff, Gabe damn sure as fundy hell can’t see the forest for the trees.

    • Keith says:

      Well, Cyclops got one thing right: he IS a troll.

  7. Alphy says:

    Cyclops you are just too much, asshole. You blow me away with your shit. I can’t believe that you actually believe the crap that you’ve been posting. You are just parroting religious nut cakes. I think you are the Poe here.

    I appreciate Poe’s Law comments and his posting this from the internet -

    ““All I was saying was that either the earth is flat, and the bible is correct, or the earth is round, and the bible is incorrect, I’m going to study the issue more and deside for myself which route I want to take. Either Atheist evolutionist, who agrees with all of mainstream sciences, or flat earth litteral bible believer.

    I’m leaning toward being an atheist, because if I can’t believe the bible to be completly litteraly true, then I can’t believe Jesus when he speaks about heaven, etc..

    That would make the moon landing a fake, and pretty much all of modern science false…”

    Cyclops and Gabe, will the real POE please stand up.”

    Stand up Cyclops!

    • POE's LAW says:

      Yeah, Cyclops, off yer ass and on yer feet. Come on, admit that you blowing these posts out yer butt. The most religious nutcake, not even Big Guy, could spout such fundie bullshit out of their mouth.

  8. ReligiousCyclops says:

    Blasphemer! You will pay for your sins! GOD WILL NOT BE MOCKED! And, Mr. SillyKiwiMan, everyone can be saved from original sin by believing. Remember, he who does not believe is condemned already. You act as if original sin was the construct of some group of religious control freaks seeking justification to prosyletize the unsuspecting weak minded masses. Shame on you! God will judge you. He is not about humility and compassion. He will separate the wheat from the chaff and “the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire”. He is only compassionate to those who believe, ask his forgiveness and become true Christians. God is just and he will punish sin, including original sin, by an eternity in hell. It’s you choice. He, God created you with a free will and he will hold you eternally responsible if you do not make all the choices that please him. And: Gabe you should know that God created Satan and gave him free will. Satan chose to rebel against God. That’s why he is the star (Lucifer, the bright shining one) that God casted out of heaven. Ask any astronomer. That is why there is one less star in the sky than when God created the world. The earth is flat and we are the center of the universe! Galileo and coppernicus were both heretics. They are spending eternity in hell as agents of Satan!

    • GALILEO says:

      Old Coppernicus and I are enjoying it down here in Hell. It’s a great place. There’s a beer volcano and strippers, but the best part of it is there are no Fundie Assholes here. They have a special Hell of their own where they are condemned for eternity to chant and sing the praises of their Lord. Now that’s really boring as Hell!

      • Keith says:

        Actually I thought the fundamentalists went to a pit occupied by Gay Moslem Evolutionists.

        • COPPERNICUS says:

          No, Keith, you infidel, that pit is just for apostate Islamic Fundies. They are forced to eat pork chops for breakfast, lunch, dinner and snacks. And the Five Pillars of The Faith are jammed up their asses every day. Peace be on them.

        • ReligiousCyclops says:

          Keith,

          you are an infidel. You have no fidelity at all to our Lord Jesus and the the eternal literally interpreted truths of the Holy Anglo Saxon Fundamentalist literally interpreted truths of the only Holy (King James version) of the Bible that has been handed down to us from our dear puritan forefather.

        • Keith says:

          Actually, my mother’s side of the family were Welsh so I’m probably doomed anyway.

        • Alphy says:

          Keith, I have Irish ancestry on both my dad’s and mom’s sides. So, like my Welsh brothers and sisters I am doomed too. We will just have to spent our eternity in hell with sinful beer volcanos and strippers. I’ll see you in hell, Keith. Hell, put me on the fast track to hell. I’ll bet that we will find the sinful secular humanists down there too. I want to be left behind. I don’t want to be “raptured” up into the clouds to be with Geez us just to poop and piss on those “sinners” left behind. By the way, I hear that both the Electrolux and Kirby vacuum cleaner companies are bidding with some heavenly council to decide on who gets to make the big selective suction vaccum cleaner that selects and sucks, raptures, off the face just fundy Christians up into the sky to be with the God who is his own father and at the same time his own son. No delusion here. Aye? Are they just the one’s who signed some sort of a pledge at a fudamentalists revivals?

        • Constipated says:

          I’ve heard that Kirby gets the heavenly contract to make the big selective suction vaccum cleaner that will select and suck, rapture, off the face of the earth just fundy Christians up into the sky to be with the God who is his own father and at the same time his own son.

          Actually Kirby is an Irish name of Irish origin. Butt fundies are ignorant of that fact and have been buying Kirby vacuum cleaners, they have abandoned Electrolux, the more Eurocentric, Anglophil Calvanistic friendly, WASP rapture friendly company.

          If you want to be raptured up into the clouds to be with Geezus, buy an Electrolux.

    • ReligiousCyclops says:

      Mr. HotEnema,

      You might think you are hot now but you just wait until you are spending an eternity burning for ever and ever in the unquenchable, God made, super hot, flames of Hell that our lord has prepared for all unrepentant agents of Satan.

      You think you are amusing now? Just keep laughing your way right into the lake of fire!

      • Alphy says:

        We will just keep laughing at you, Cyclops, with your tongue in cheek. No one parrots a fundy quite as well as you do. You are really great at it but you blew your cover long ago. Have you ever thought about becoming a professional buybull thumper? There are plenty of gullible weak minded suckers out there who would be only too happy to gobble your shit sandwichs with howling hallelujahs. You can play their weak minds really well. You sure keep the pot stirred and you are no doubt amusing yourself too. You get sadistic pleasure out of playing the weak mined don’t you?

        • Alphy says:

          Hey, I asked you a question. What are you? Are you like Gabe, ignoring the question or offering a ridiculous response. You get sadistic pleasure out of playing the weak minded. Don’t you? Or; are you one of them? An impenetrable idiot!

        • ReligiousCyclops says:

          Alphy, my pleasure derives from bringing the Word of the One True God to those who desperately need to acept Jesus as their personal savior. The weak-minded are those who ignor my vital messages and continue down the road that leads to eternal suffering in the lake of fire. Gabe is another type of weak-minded fool who thinks he can pick and choose the passages in the Holy Scriptures that fit his needs. Not so. The Word of God is a literal record of history and of His requirements for redemption of sinners. You can’t cut corners with The LORD. Dedicate your heart to Jesus, His love and mercy are boundless and available to all. Your Salvation is His only desire.

    • AnybodysIdiot says:

      Damn, Cyclops you are just too much! Damn!

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