I wanted to write this, because as an Atheist myself, I still find your attempt at mockery not amusing. Though I lack religion, I still can respect others and their beliefs. Can’t you do the same? You can have your own viewpoint on life, but this makes all atheists look like assholes.
You may not agree with religion or the people who follow it, but keep in mind that you still have to live with them. Taking this approach, yes I’ll admit creative, but really destructive. I don’t see the point in this misguided "religion" but realize that just because you believe you are right, does not make it any less offensive.
The Kansas School Committee is looking pretty good right now.
-Annie
What Happened to the Concept of Respecting Others
Published June 18th, 2010 by Bobby Henderson
Filed under hate-mail (and concerned criticism)
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Rather than point out several examples of outrageous violence committed on religious grounds, I would like to raise a point that I’m sure has probably been discussed several times on this thread, me being too lazy to read them: Why does religion deserve automatic deference? Yes, people may base their entire worldview around religious beliefs, but disagreement is not intolerance, as Austin Cline so brilliantly states. Even ridicule and mockery aren’t uncalled for. Look at politics. People are always criticized and made fun of for their political views. Why should religion get special treatment? They’re making some of the most important claims about how people should live, think, etc, and we don’t get any say about it? We just get to tell them “No, you’re wrong” and move on? You may want to read some Dawkins.
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Why the hell are people using “atheist” incorrectly? It’s not capitalized. It’s not a proper noun.
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So what?
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And what pray tell constitutes a religion that should be paid respect?? A certain number of followers? Beliefs that are tolerable within your particular view of what is socially acceptable? If a religion (as all are) is responsible in the past or present for violence and intolerance toward conflicting viewpoints, then I say expose them for what they are….a tool of control perpetuated by the weak-minded sheep who share a common delusion. Religion has done nothing positive for mankind, it is a source of conflict and abuse. Only by ridiculing it and satirizing it can we hope to break through the “sacrosanct” veneer surrounding it.
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And why is it that religious people find the FSM offensive? I suspect that it’s because they have a deep rooted insecurity about their (ludicrous) beliefs. They need to have their beliefs reinforced by everyone else either believing likewise or SHUTTING THE HELL UP!! Maybe they should tackle their insecurities head on…
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This is exactly why the concept of heresy was invented, P Hen. When a scientist goes against the mainstream, he’s given the opportunity to prove the majority wrong. If he indeed is correct, he’s showered with praise. Of course in the realm of religion there is no such thing as proof, so any deviance – while it’s probably just as valid as the main doctrines – is aggressively stamped out.
That’s what makes the pitiful cries of some visitors “Why can’t you respect MY beliefs? SOB!” so grating. If the Christian church still had the political power Islam has, they’d probably be executing heretics at soccer game halftimes, too.
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Because religion is not something you hang on a wall, like a certificate. It’s a stand. If you actually believe in your beliefs, so to speak, you know that it’s something you have to defend. I can’t speak for all religious people who had reacted to the things on this website but I can tell you it’s not all about insecurity.
I’m willing to consider that the writer of FSM did not intend to directly bash Creationism (just the decision to teach Intelligent Design in science classes), the fact is, the entire thing sounds insulting. I know that atheists cannot relate to this because they do not believe in God, but you can imagine how annoying it is that the most powerful being that you recognise, the one that you actively thank for each day that’s passed, the reason why you live, is mocked. My God is a mere plate of spaghetti with eyeballs to many of you. And sadly, I know now that nothing I say will ever change that, and it’s very disheartening.
Furthermore you have many jerks on this site who spout off the apparent senselessness and stupidity of believing in God, many times without proper provocation. Obviously people are gonna get pissed off! And obviously people are gonna react! And you have the gall to pretend that you don’t enjoy the incensed responses? My God!
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DM II,
Thank you for not cussing us out. Also, thank you for not telling us we are going to hell. You’re right that we do enjoy the incensed responses. It proves a point when the majority of reactions we get from believers are full of foul language, spelling and grammar errors and damnations. I respectfully ask you however, to consider the merits of what we are saying. Instead of your beliefs being something you have to defend, what if your beliefs didn’t need to be defended but instead stood on their own? Or better yet if you beliefs could be challenged as new evidence, information, and discoveries become available. If you’re upset about the mudslinging just remember that it goes both ways, and that atheists take more than our fair share of slings and arrows.
Peace,
Danimal
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Because religion is not something you hang on a wall, like a certificate.
– Could we keep it that way with you all leaving us alone?
It’s a stand.
– If it was a stand then there would be a cause. What is your cause?
If you actually believe in your beliefs, so to speak, you know that it’s something you have to defend.
– We are not talking people killing others, raping someone, stealing and defending someone’s rights. No one is attempting to take away your rights. Your religion is trying to take away ours.
I can’t speak for all religious people who had reacted to the things on this website but I can tell you it’s not all about insecurity.
–Yes it is. People are too scared to die or to veer away from this brainwashing… because they are scared to die or their families will hate them and society will cast them out.
I’m willing to consider that the writer of FSM did not intend to directly bash Creationism (just the decision to teach Intelligent Design in science classes), the fact is, the entire thing sounds insulting.
– We should care that it is insulting because…? Christians trying to disguise religion as science and teaching it in the classroom is insulting. What do you have to say about that? And, in my opinon, creationism should be bashed because it has no merit, proof, or evidence.
I know that atheists cannot relate to this because they do not believe in God, but you can imagine how annoying it is that the most powerful being that you recognise, the one that you actively thank for each day that’s passed, the reason why you live, is mocked.
– I know that Christians cannot relate to this because they do not believe in evidence and fact, but you can’t imagine how annoying it is that you constantly have your morals and values questioned, your citizenship threatened, your life threatened, your rank in society being so low that you shouldn’t have the right to vote, and this is all done because you don’t believe in an invisible thing that lives in the sky for which no one will begin to provide proof or evidence for.
My God is a mere plate of spaghetti with eyeballs to many of you.
– No, you are confusing your god with our god. See, we believe in the FSM and you believe in a bearded sky daddy. Our god looks much cooler, and offers much better afterlife experiences.
And sadly, I know now that nothing I say will ever change that, and it’s very disheartening.
– And sadly, no matter how much I ask you to even consider another point of view, offer evidence, stop arguing with a circular argument, and leave all of us in peace you won’t, and it’s very disheartening.
Furthermore you have many jerks on this site who spout off the apparent senselessness and stupidity of believing in God,
– I have the same right to “spout off” about the OBVIOUS senselessness and stupidity of god as you do to be a jerk and come here and throw your beliefs in my face.
many times without proper provocation.
– What exactlly would you consider “proper” provocation? I consider you sharing your beliefs you opening up the door for this discussion. You are coming here and opening your mouth (reminding you we have not come to you). That is provocation.
Obviously people are gonna get pissed off!
– Again, we are here, and now you are coming here… So you are saying I am not allowed to express my opinion that is contrary to yours because people are going to get pissed off? You are sharing beliefs that are contrary to mine, so I guess I get to be pissed off now! Yeah!
And obviously people are gonna react!
– Again, we are here, and you are coming here reacting. Since your god offends me perhaps I should come to your church and react. May I have the address? Or perhaps you belong to a christian forum where you chat. Let me have the web address so I can go there and react.
And you have the gall to pretend that you don’t enjoy the incensed responses? My God!
– Right. We love being told what wretched, immoral people we are and while all this is going on christians scream their heads off about how they are being discriminated against even though separation is the LAW! MY FSM!
PS – No I don’t enjoy the incensed responses because it is a continuous reminder of the stupidity of the majority of the human race.
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If I become President, I will make all religion in this country illegal. Except of course the Church of the FSM.
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In America it is our right to believe in whatever we want to; it is only our acts that are restricted in an attempt to make sure that we are all safe and happy and don’t infringe on each other’s most basic rights. What needs to be made illegal or taken away in this country is the power and the influence that these religions have. They are all too often above the laws of this country, and that has to stop. So the idea is not to make the belief of religion and most of the acts of worshiping the religion illegal (even though I wish everyone would stop believing in these sorts of things), but to subject these religions to the same laws as any other large corporation in this country, because when it comes down to it, in the real, observable, physical world, religion is just a large corporation.
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Good post, Marcy. Pedophilia in the Catholic Church should be reported immediately to civil authorities, not dealt with sloppily by the Church. That goes also for the Boy Scouts and any other church or “sacred” organization. That policy should be a no-brainer, but it looks like the Pope and other power figures are beginning to at least pretend that will be their new policy. I say keep suing the bastards; That’s the only way to get their attention.
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I was stunned when the pope called a meeting to discuss how to handle pedophilia by priests. Now, I’m an atheist, and most believers would thus tell you I have no morals, but I can’t understand what needed to be discussed. All the cardinals and bishops should have been commanded that as soon as they knew of these allegations, they had contact the authorities. If they try to cover things up, they will excommunicated and the gendarmes sicked on them, too.
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As I said above, the policy should be a no-brainer not requiring a meeting called by the Pope to discuss how to handle pedophiles within the church.
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I always find it disheartening to see people stereotype the Catholic Church as a den of pedophilia. Although I now class myself as an atheist, I was raised in a loving, Catholic household where we attended mass every Sunday. My mother even works in the same diocese where most of the abuse scandals happened, and I remember being afraid for her safety every time she went off to work. I can assure you, the Church has changed. The lengths the people in the diocese go to in order to protect young people is astounding, and they do not receive nearly enough credit. I might not agree with all the teachings of the Church, but to class them all as perverts is not only wrong, but flies in the face of the efforts of thousands to ensure all young people are safe. Most of the abuse occurred decades ago, and if any new cases were to come up today it would be dealt with in a very swift manner.
As to continue the suing, I can assure you it does nothing to the true guilty priests. The cost of the settlements was placed directly upon the lay workers in the diocese, i.e. my mother and her coworkers. While no priests involved with the sex scandal lost any money, my family had to make do with less, and we were the lucky ones. Many people lost their jobs. Please think of who will feel the real burden when you declare that they should be sued even more.
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As a clarification, I was worried for her safety because of the virulent protesters who would stand outside her office, hurtling death threats.
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“As to continue the suing, I can assure you it does nothing to the true guilty priests. The cost of the settlements was placed directly upon the lay workers in the diocese, i.e. my mother and her coworkers. While no priests involved with the sex scandal lost any money”
Sounds like your (former?) church is placing the burden on the backs of the people, as usual. You can assure me the church has changed? Doesn’t sound like it.
You’re right that it is unfair to make every church member responsible for the acts of pedophile priests, we’re just asking that the pedophile priests and their supervisors be held responsible all the way up to the top. However, I doubt that will ever happen. Don’t make the mistake of thinking that this most recent scandal involving the sexual abuse of children is somehow an out of character action for the church. The history of the catholic church, christianity, and well, all religion in general is filled with horrible acts. And don’t make the mistake of thinking that pastafarians are the first group of intelligent people to speak out against religion. History is filled with great minds decrying the absurdity of invisible friends in the sky (except maybe for the Dark Ages when people were killed for speaking out against religion.)
The church deserves everything it gets and more. If people like your mother suffer for being members of the church they should leave like you and I did.
Peace,
Danimal
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It’s not that they wanted to pass the debt onto their workers, it’s that they legally had to. The people who sued went after the diocese, not the guilty priests, which is understandable since most of the priests were already dead. They had to pay the debts, but that meant that they could not afford to keep paying the same wages in the immediate sense, and could not even employ as many lay workers. To think that they’re an evil group who passed the debt onto workers is a gross mis-characterization.
Please note that I’m also not saying I endorse any religion, nor am I blind to the evil that they have done. I personally subscribe to no faith or profess a belief in a higher power (save the Most Holy FSM, may his noodley appendage touch us all). The point that I’m making is that for there to be an honest, open discussion on the merits of faith (or more specifically, the lack thereof), neither side can afford to over-generalize the debate. Undoubtedly there are evil members in the history of all religions, but to think that all faithful are evil is dishonest at best.
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I agree with your second paragraph. It’s just too bad the Vatican is out of money and can’t help your diocese out.
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I was also raised Catholic. The local pastor tried to feel up my 13 year old sister, and the boy’s coach for all sports was in it to meet boys. In my Catholic high school, the track coach would give us the creeps in the locker room by sitting where he could check out everyone in the showers.
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Of course the majority of Catholic Priests are decent folks and not pedophiles. However, the small percentage of sexual perverts within the church and the way they have been mishandled by the Church has darkened the image of the Catholic Church to Catholics and non-Catholics alike. That’s the thing that’s disheartening. The numbers of practicing Catholics will decline sharply as a result of the Church’s actions, or lack of appropriate actions.
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It’s too bad that dioceses have been hit hard by lawsuits, but how else can the problem be forcefully presentred to Catholic authorities and changes brought about? As Danimal later sarcastically states: “Too bad the Vatican is out of money and can’t help your diocese.”
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(BTW, I’m not and never have been a Catholic or a member of any other church)
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I am thrilled to hear that things are changing. But lets look back what started this website. That would be an attempt by fools to get their demented beliefs taught as truth in schools. Now tell me truthfully, if the catholic church still held the power they had in the dark ages would they not be doing the same thing? The only purpose in any organized religion is to gain power and wealth and be able to tell people how to live. The remenants of that power are what allowed those priests to get away whit their heinous acts.
If some deluded fool wishes to believe in the teachings of a corrupt and power grubbing religion, well I can’t fix stupid. But allowing that aforementioned religion ANY special privledges is in and of itself a heinous and criminal act. Lets not do it.
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“I wanted to write this, because as an Atheist myself … Though I lack religion, I still can respect others and their beliefs”
That is oxymoronic in nature. You are an Atheist, thus by definition you reject any notion of deities or religious beliefs. You believe that there can be no god and that it is impossible for such a thing to have ever existed. Yet you respect other people who tell you that you are 100% wrong but can give no plausible reason as to why you are wrong. Yet you say you respect them. If that were true, you should respect FSM and stop being offensive by saying that it is being destructive. Just because you think you are right, does not make you any less offensive.
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When I hear a religious devotee whining “You should respect my beliefs”, what I get is “Please tell me I’m not crazy for basing much of my life on these fairy tales. Tell me I’m just as rational as you”. Sorry, I can’t do that.
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I’m to the point where I’ll give them the same “respect” they give me as an atheist.
As far as I’m concerned the more devout the theist the more deluded and unstable the so-called mind.
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So you consider the westboro baptist church a constructive group?
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Constructive groups? Like the ones who won’t allow women on the pulpit but will allow child molesters to be priests? Those who harass families of fallen soldiers? Those who preach hate of anyone who doesn’t agree with them? THOSE kind of constructive groups?
And this only appears to be a mockery to you because you are seeing the similarities and it disturbs you. It is not a mockery. It is a satire. I hope you understand the difference.
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One very important thing that I feel the CoFSM is doing, is to effectively hold a mirror up to other religions and say “Guys, this is what you look like”.
And if a mirror mocks you, is that then the mirrors fault?
Regards, RAmen and Pastafarian Greetings,
Thomas L. Nielsen
Luxembourg
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Nor does it make you right
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I never found the FSM to be offensive. When you say things like that to us, it hurts our religion. And yes, it’s not just a satire! The FSM in the most believable deity I have so far seen, and thus far has answered my prayers to Him. Yarr.
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Since when do religious liars and assholes deserve respect? Annie, grow some balls, seriously.
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Instead of name calling it would be great if you would actually provide something to back up your post. How is RFtr4rt being an asshole? Stating the truth may be disturbing, but it is not being an asshole. It is a whole lot better than any church you will enter.
Those who speak of that they do not know show themselves to be ignorant assholes. Perhaps you should take a look in the mirror…
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Do you also respect people who still believe in Santa Clause at age 30? If not, where do you draw the line?
The belief in a personal deity is very primitive superstition and similar to the belief in a Tooth Fairy or Santa Clause and I do not see why it is wrong to ridicule such a primitive superstition. It is not an attack on religion per se, as not all religions hold such primitive superstitions. For example, some forms of Buddhism and Pantheistic interpretations of Polytheism are entirely philosophical, entirely logical and compatible with modern science. The FSM by no means offends these people as their criticism is just a criticism of primitive superstition and not philosophy.
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So if a religion has a some slightly socially-acceptable philosophy/logic behind it, is it partially ‘Redeemed’?
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Wha………….. Santa? Whu………? OMHFSM……. I’m gutted…
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Attempt at mockery? We of the FSM attempt nothing, we seem to be succeeding in our mockery rather well actually, and rather than taking it for what it is, mockery, and enjoying it in the spirit in which it was intended, you seem to have found some negative connotation within it, which probably means you didn’t really research FSM and the ideas behind it. Being new to the Church of FSM myself, having only recently been introduced, I would have to say that even I may not know what I’m talking about, but from everything I have heard or seen or read or had explained to me. The entire idea is to take people and beliefs that have puffed themselves up and taken themselves too seriously, and stick a pin in their balloon full of hot air. it’s a chance to take a subject that normally induces crusades and suicide bombers and instead turn it into something to smile about, there’s nothing here making fun of religion, rather seeing the amusing side of it and looking at it from fully logical stand point rather than simply accepting or rejecting any idea without truly thinking about it. An idea that the average human being may find offending simply because it forces them to actually use their brain instead of mindlessly mimicking the noises of their peers. Ramen.
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Atheists have never been treated with respect. Atheists are constantly threatened with hell and insulted. I have met some psychos who have laughed at me because I will go to hell. Not all theists are like this, but basically every creationist, the group of which we are mocking, is.
They beat us over the head with their crucifix then ask for respect when we try to take it away.
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Waterseas: Do you believe in Athena, Thor, Jupiter, Baal, Vishnu, Allah, Anubis, Osiris, Tengri, Uzume or Odin? How about Amimitl or Chantico or Catequil? If the answer to these and thousands more is no, you are 99.99% atheist! Are you then that much different from Drained and Washed Clean, Atsap Revol, Not so Hairless Ape and others? They’ve just taken it that one step further, brother!
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I don’t know about Catequil, but I know Cyndaquil exists as I have faced off against one with my Jigglypuff. What’s more, I have a photo to prove it! Let’s see the god botherers produce convincing photos of what they believe in.
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Why should we respect someone just because they’re religious? Respect is something you earn, not because you have a religious title to your name. More importantly why would I respect a religion that says I will go to hell unless I do exactly as the holy scripture says? To me that’s disrespectful to my beliefs.
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Annie, dear, really, why do you confuse (A) respecting people’s right to their beliefs with (2) respecting the actual beliefs?
It leads to all sorts of dishonesty.
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Anne says she is an atheist. So am I, although I do consider myself to be an aspiring practitioner of Buddhist philosophy. What I found curious was Anne’s statement “Though I lack religion, I still can respect others and their beliefs.” So, being atheist is lacking religion? Being atheist is some deficient, lacking, a deficit? Anne, if you really are an atheist, hold your head up high, you’re not lacking anything!
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