Fallacy of your satire

Published June 14th, 2010 by Bobby Henderson

Hello, I have purchased and read your book, The Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster and I would just like to share with you a constructive feedback of your book. For its objective purpose of proving the illogicality of the provincial-minded nature of those who stand in opposition to allowing the scientific theory of the Big Bang/Theory of Evolution from being taught publicly, it served its purpose well. However I would like to call to mind the hypocritical nature of the book. I believe consistency with one’s own message is important to achieve a total victory and it satirically charges Christians with creating blind assumptions. I understand the comparison of pirate decrease to global temperature increase was to further the point of the illogicality of religion, but you assumed there was a lesser amount of pirates. In fact there are more pirates now than there was in the 1700′s, the lack of the Pirates of the Caribbean-esque romanticism is the only reason this fact is not widely spread. You made an assumption which went against fact which defeated your principle of factual basis. One may argue that was the continuation of satire but that would be most likely incorrect as the faux-correlation of coincidence is the satire and not the actual analyzes as global temperature is indeed rising since the last minor ice age in the Napoleonic Era.

Furthermore it appears you attack religion as a whole entity as illogical and we’d be better off it was nonexistent as the end of the book turns into repetitive bashing, This is the same mindset as the illogical fundamentalists whom do not hear the logic of scientific theory who completely disregard science as it is alien to their beliefs. Religion is extremely important in its influence in sociology as it combats the modern mainstream schools of thought such as widespread apathy, post-modernism and rampant sensationalism. It teaches values of selflessness and charity opposing the media advocacy of self-service which even in an evolutionary sense is not nature as we are social animals which rely upon societal advancement, not just the advancement of self. Religion plays a large role in academic studies as well, I’m sure you’re aware that one of the theorists of the Big Bang Theory was a Catholic priest. To the (logically) theistic, the belief in God does not interact with evolution or creation as God is a theory pertaining to spiritual well being while evolution pertains to physical creation. Religion (or belief in God) does not isolate one from logic, rather the fallacy assuming that because one is religious they must abandon reason. I think if you had pulled back on the senseless bashing of theists and made it rather a criticism of the solely illogical due to their ignoring of blatant scientific evidence even the Pope would have agreed with you. Book such as the one of your own writing are dangerous as human beings tend to take the extremity of each end, by the extensive mockery of the religious you isolate them while creating a malicious current in atheists against theists, which is academically wrong as scholarly debate should be through procedure of logic but your book goes from such to foolery. Such anti-God contempt creates social hysteria making people, for example, atheistic in assumption of its logic while in fact they have little intelligence to even contemplate the bane of their existence.This correlates with the thesis of The Prince as one should be firm in their own beliefs and adhered to logic but they can also not crush the other side as that creates blatant opposition for the sake of opposition rather than following a conventional and more satisfying procedure of scholarly victory.

I hope your book has accomplished your objective and enlightens the close-minded Kansas Board of Education.

Maroun Shami

 

This is the type of email I like to receive.  I don’t agree with a lot of what Maroun is saying but I have a lot of respect for him voicing his criticism.  –bobby



226 Responses to “Fallacy of your satire”

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  1. Maroun says:

    @Danimal, I’m a Maronite. Yes the Bible can be interpreted differently and incorrectly. We have a different interpretation, we can be wrong. It has not been written by God but still carries authority as it was written by the guidance of patriarchs. It is written to be the “word of God” more in the sense of guidance rather than the false notion God gave anyone the writings directly.

    @Insightful Ape, why must you be so uncivil, why call me a moron? I am not lying, I clarified I did not “add” anything. I was saying people who assume atheism is logical [rather than think for themselves and determine that the existence of God is illogical and they just allow others to tell them that it is logical to be an atheist] are unintelligent. I did not call you an idiot nor do I find atheists unintelligent. I find atheists who are atheists for the sake of being an atheist unintelligent, like the teenagers who think its “cool”, an atheist who comes to a logical conclusion through thought process is normally more intelligent than the normal church goer as the church goer does not ask questions in fear of diminishing their faith. Please learn to be polite though, name calling is quite childish. And to your PS I’m not shaking my fist at you, but if you look at my posts I do not name call like you and if you do not wish to learn from a believer in God, learn from a civil atheist that name calling is very impolite.

    @ Drained and Washed Clean, you are actually very correct. That is why I said proper understanding of context supplies proper understanding. For instance in my religion we study the bible in Greek and Aramaic (even though there are only blurbs in Aramaic, they retain the Hebrew idiomatic meanings and is similar to Arabic). For instance Mary was a “virgin” most definitely, you see there are two words in Greek which mean virgin. One of the words means a young girl, regardless of being a virgin in modern sense. You see, Matthew knew Greek and did a play on words from an Isaiah quote were virgin was employed in the sense of being a young girl and made it the definition meaning a pure girl. I believe however that virgin pertains to her obedience, etc. not sexuality. For the inaccuracies pertaining to numbers, they aren’t literal they are often numeral symbols. For instance when Jesus says to forgive someone 77 times. This is not actually 77 times and than you get angry at them, it is symbolic to forgive 7 x 10 + 7. 7 is a number which stands for what is complete and holy (hence 666, unholy and incomplete), and one wishes to imitate God. Times 10 because a multiple of ten is seen as bringing something to a much higher degree. Adding 7 again to emphasis God would forgive again and again. That is what I meant by context. In terms of teaching all the gospels as one, you are right, that is wrong because it detracts from each author hence why in my theology classes we did side by side textual criticisms and differences in purpose and meaning of each gospel (i.e. Mark is pessimistic, while Luke tends to sugarcoat).

    • cadbrowser says:

      Matthew 18:22 – “Then Peter came and said to him, “Lord, if another member of the church sins against me, how oft should I forgive? As many as seven times?” Jesus said to him, “Not seven times, but, I tell you, seventy times seven times.”.

      70 x 7 is 490…NOT 77.

  2. Insightful Ape says:

    Ooh, maroun, you are at it again.
    So let’s go over your claims again. You are saying that “people who assume atheism is logical [rather than think for themselves and determine that the existence of God is illogical and they just allow others to tell them that it is logical to be an atheist] are unintelligent.” Incidentally, don’t you think that it a little against the human nature, for someone to assume that his/her own views are not logical? And further, what group of people exactly are we talking about? For example, if someone reads the gospel of the FSM and realizes that there is no more evidence for your god than for the Flying Spaghetti Monster, that makes the person “unintelligent” since he got the idea from someone else? (Which is precisely why you consider the gospel of the FSM “dangerous”.) You know what? I heard the ideas of Richard Dawkins, and that turned me into an atheist. So I am unintelligent as well? Is it my turn now to ask you why you are so uncivil?
    Besides, if people you get the idea of nonexistence of god from others are unintelligent, how about those how get the idea of EXISTENCE of god from others? Are they unintelligent too? “I find atheists who are atheists for the sake of being an atheist unintelligent, like the teenagers who think its “cool””. You know what? That is the case for the vast majority of new converts to christianity in the third world. It is the “cool” thing in China and other nations. So the new christians are all unintelligent people? Is that what you are saying?
    Your claim that “if I wanted to call atheists stupid I would have said so” is also a lie. You see, the claim that “black people are the inferior race” is not commonly heard these days. It doesn’t mean that racism is dead. It simply means that racists tend to hide their true nature out of political correctness. Likewise, you are proselytizing to a group of skeptics. You realize that you won’t get very far if you make a blanket statement that we are all unintelligent, and so you have to frame it in such a way to sound like, there are intelligent ones among us. (Those being the ones that somehow happen to think their own viewpoint is illogical). I can’t even think about you logic without cracking up.
    RAmen
    PS: It is just a bit cheeky for you to call me impolite, when you have accused me of “distorting your comments”. How about threatening dissent with eternal hellfire? That is as polite as it gets, right?

    • Joseph says:

      Insightful Ape,

      I was reading every response to Maroun to see if you would finally get what he was explaining (quite well, in fact), and each time you misconstrued his explanations and took it offensively, after which you would throw insults back. While I don’t fully agree with Maroun on all counts, he explained his views clearly and eloquently. Yet more often than not, the responses to his letter were filled with misinterpretations or, as some people admitted, answers from people too lazy to read the whole thing.

      I give Maroun props for trying as many times as he did to just explain something to you, when it became obvious that you weren’t even logically reachable.

      • Adam says:

        I am of the same viewpoint as you, Joseph. I don’t agree with Maroun on all accounts, but I do agree that the Ape is being unreasonably offensive with his name calling, yet unreasonably sensitive at the same time.

        @Insightful Ape, the point that Maroun was making was that people who blindly become atheists PURELY because of the common description of atheism as “logical” are stupid, just as people who blindly become Christians because they believe it “feels right” are also stupid. He was saying that truly intelligent people will shape their beliefs around personal contemplation, not around the loud claims of their peers.

        • Drained and Washed Clean says:

          I found the switch to atheism to be much harder than becoming a Christian. Probably because I had to do my own research and let go of something that was shoved down my throat from a young age. It actually scared the shit out of me at the beginning of my discovery… I began Pascal Wagering myself :)

          My thought is that a majority of Christians are Christians because they are sheeple and doing what they are “supposed to do” and a minority of atheists do it because it is “logical”. That is just from my personal experience. Anyone know if there are studies on something like this? I think it would be interesting to see…

        • Adam says:

          Minority of atheists, yes, I agree. I was just clarifying, as there seemed to be an unnecessary derailment based on a misunderstanding.

  3. Bob says:

    I’m waiting for the Cliffs Notes on this one.

    At a glance, what Maroun doesn’t like about our religion is what I don’t like about his. The stories are different, it’s just that way too many people take his way too seriously for my comfort, and I don’t see any difference in morality between believers and nonbelievers, just a whole lot more righteous judgement, indignation and justification among the believers.

    I appreciate that our man is not a literalist, but his interpretations take some pretty sizable leaps of faith themselves, as all that I have heard do, and once again there is no special reason to believe he guessed it any better than anyone else, except by application of logic. And if logic works, then why on earth would you believe anything in the Bible?

    Hysteria? From atheism? You gotta be F****g kidding. The best place to find hysterics is church, and you know it. Your pirate rant is a lot of pseudointellectual self stroking, and nobody bought it. You were backtracking on the joke claim, and you lose some credibility there. The Pope would not agree with Bobby if he toned it down a little.

    Your book Maroun, why would you believe it holds Gods answers, given flawed as it is to a small group of people, translated and cherry picked, still being rewritten today (“thou shalt not kill” to “.. shalt not murder” – better wording when you’re at war) and not equally available to all humans? Why not believe what we all can see written in every living cell, every tree, every rock, every fossil. Why would we ignore all of the evidence of this world to believe in a narrow anthropomorphic God that looks exactly as we could predict any meglomaniacal culture would make him? Why would God write a book when he could write it all in the essence of the universe? I look for answers there, not in a collection of self-serving scraps that you must admit, paints a pretty ugly portrait of God. God is in the fabric of this universe, or not at all, and that depends more on semantics than some Truth to be discovered. To believe a two legged God with nothing to walk on engineered an grossly flawed book, poorly distributed, and open to a million interpretations, that you and your faction get it but all the others did not is a stunning place to be firing off critiques of other beliefs from.

    I briefly read something about “unthinking” or “unintelligent” atheists in your encyclopedia up there. Believe me, they are the rarest type. Lower intelligence correlates with a higher rate of belief, look it up. Our culture makes us religious by default in most of the USA -maybe not devout, but most people just play what appears to be safe and go with the prevailing wind. It is freethinking, intelligent people that search for answers outside what they are spoon fed, and many of them end up atheists, pantheists, agnostics and secular humanists. The finest, most morally centered, generous and intelligent group of people I have ever encountered are secular humanists. Go spend some time with them before you equate low intelligence with a lack of belief. I haven’t earned my place among them, so don’t think I am flattering myself.

    This is too long, but you seem to have time on your hands, Maroun. You seem to be on board with the purpose, but argue your God none-the-less. Just honing your skills? Wrestling with some doubt? Bored? You seem young, and you value courtesy and respect, so you’re going to be OK. All that’s left to want is a little intellectual courage, and i don’t doubt you have that. I respect that you read outside your own belief, now let it sink in. When you’ve looked at some more challenging beliefs than Pastafarianism, let us know how you evolve.

    • bob says:

      Did you even read the letter? Where does he even say he’s a theist? I guess this just goes to show that now atheists are becoming just as ignorant and moronic as the fanatics on the creationist side of things.

      • Drained and Washed Clean says:

        Did you even read the comments? He said he is a member of the Maronite Church. Just goes to show people who come to this website with a chip on their shoulder and trying to make other people look like an ass just go and prove themselves to be one.

    • OH Lee says:

      This is quite a long post, but there is a simple way to determine the jist of it without reading it all: Simply look at the “Like or Dislike” count. As with any post on this site, the more people like it, the more it agrees with what the atheistic sodomites who hang around here choose to believe.

      Anything anti-God/anti-religion is a “Like.” Anything that even remotely agrees with the Bible as the revealed word of the Lord God and His Son Jesus Christ is a “Don’t Like.” This post doesn’t have a unanimous decision either way, but since the Likes outnumber the Dislikes 2 to 1, it obviously has something in it that blasphemes God and/or commends homosexuality as a perfectly acceptable way of life.

      This phenomenon certainly isn’t confined to this website. One can see it in many other places — the IMDb Religion Board is one example. Wherever religion is discussed, a pack of homosexuals gather like ravenous jackals, cursing God and religion with a vehemence that defies all logic and common sense.

      Certainly people are free to not believe in God, even though it will land their souls in eternal hell, but why do homosexuals go out of their way over and over again to spew out their venomous bile, excoriating anything and anyone who dares to express a belief in the Ultimate Truth, the Lord God who created and sustains the universe?

      It is obviously because God has made it clear many times in His Holy Word that sodomy is a mortal sin, just like thievery, robbery, murder, and child rape. The faggots don’t like hearing that truth, so they extend their manicured claws and lash out at anyone who reminds them of it. Unfortunately for them, all their flailing about and crying and whining and pissing themselves won’t change the fact that what they do is a sin just as horrible as what Adolf Hitler did.

      There is no doubt that this post will soon receive a number of Dislike votes as the sodomite gang swarms on it like locusts, and then the post will be “hidden” for receiving too many negative votes. That is how tolerant and open-minded these perverts are. They close their eyes and ears to any idea that challenges their evil and filthy behaviours. They do so because they know in their hearts that sodomy is a mortal sin, but they are unable to stop doing it, just as serial child killers are unable to stop raping and killing children.

      God will stop them, though. Their final destination will be hell, where Satan and his army of demons will teach them in intimate detail what it is like to be on the receiving end of sodomies so painful and horrible that even Hitler’s Jews would recoil at the thought of such suffering.

      • Keith says:

        This bozo has an obsession with sodomy. That speaks volumes to me.

        • OH Lee says:

          Oh what a clever response. Two sentences, twelve words. Makes one wonder why you even bother.

          But then we know that your brains are so eaten up with syphilis and AIDS that you’re lucky to be able to form a sentence.

        • gordon_uk says:

          wow he can count

        • OH Lee says:

          Your mom has an obsession with sodomy. But not to worry — I clean off my dick before your wife sucks it.

        • Joel says:

          Oh does Jesus teach sleeping with others wife now? And here was me thinking that the ten commandment clearly specify against that.

        • gordon_uk says:

          OH Lee so you admit to having adulterous thoughts, and Adultery being a sin and is regulated against in the 10 commandments and please don’t forget the bible does say the thought is as bad as the sin it’s self.

          So on you’re day of judgment what are you going to say to god when he brings up this web site? ‘Sorry lord, I was only joking about killing, raping people and committing adultery’? I think that will be the time you feel and sinking sensation followed by an odd raise in temperature, then you may get some of that sodomy action you keep harping on about.

      • Joel says:

        Defies sense and common logic? I’d like to see some sense and common logic from Christianity for a change.

        • OH Lee says:

          Another brilliant reply which goes to prove my point.

          “Christianity bad. Atheism good. Ugh.”

          L-L!

        • Joel says:

          Another brilliant reply which goes to prove my point.

          “Atheism bad. Christianity good. Ugh.”

          L-L!

        • OH Lee says:

          And Joel simply cuts and pastes my post.

          A perfect example of the complete lack of proof that atheists have to support their non-position.

          Cut and paste that, bitch!

        • Noodlity says:

          And they say Xianity is a religion of virtue…

          Thing is, the more you post vulgarities and general nonsense, the more you demonstrate how obsolete your religion is, not to mention harmful to one’s mental health. You will convince neither the regulars here to seek salvation or whatever, nor the generally neutral newcomers and casual visitors. Contrarywise, you might even turn more of your fellow Xians to atheism, or even Pastafarianism; since at least a decent proportion of them aren’t eager to associate with sexually repressed homophobic hatemongers.

          In short, the more you go on, the more you do our job for us.

        • OH Lee says:

          Noodlity says:
          November 10, 2010 at 6:08 AM

          You will convince neither the regulars here to seek salvation or whatever, nor the generally neutral newcomers and casual visitors.

          In other words, I won’t convince the homosexuals who frequent these anti-religion sites to amend their filthy ways and turn to Jesus Christ for forgiveness. You’ve got that right. If God can’t convince them by killing off their ilk with AIDS, then my words aren’t going to do anything.

          But there is always the chance that one person who is on the edge of giving him/herself over to perverted sodomy will read the truth of what I say, see the light and turn to God. As long as that chance exists, I will keep posting.

          Go ahead and hide my comments, sodomites. That just makes them more intriguing and increases the chance that someone will click on them and read the truth.

          L-L!

        • Noodlity says:

          You do realise that AIDS is actually prevalent in Xian communities, as opposed to atheist/agnostic/anyone smart enough to learn basic sex education. Right? You’d be surprised how little your god helps in the matter, as opposed to, say, a piece of rubber.

          Still, I do admit you’ll likely convince that one person to follow your blabberings. That one person of course being Fred Phelps. I think you’ll make a lovely couple, even. Then again, he already is on the nutcase side of the fence, so your work here is done. Good job!

        • Joel says:

          You know its people like you that made it easier to turn away from christianity. It’s homophobic people like you who make me ashamed to call myself a human being. And if your going to say lack of proof, given me proof of god. Because I assure you scientists actually bother testing their theories, unlike the close-mindedness that christianity presents.

      • Noodlity says:

        OH Lee, my friend, in case you haven’t noticed, we here are Pastafarians. That is, we have our own Heaven to go to, so your hell actually doesn’t concern us at all. Nowadays the only people who do go there on a regular basis are BDSM afficionados. Yeah, the Red Realm really has the right atmosphere for their groovy kind of love – pain and suffering is like flowers and a box of chocolates to them.

        As for the dislikes… tough luck. But what do you expect – it’s like posting “Twilight rules!” on a Buffy board. If you want to be liked, go find a Xian site and share your anal aspirations with the people there. If it’s the official site of the Catholic Church, or the WBC, you might just get some hints and suggestions for the next time you ride the rocket; these guys are experts on that.

        • OH Lee says:

          Noodlity says:
          November 10, 2010 at 1:51 AM

          As for the dislikes… tough luck.

          Exactly what I said. In your constricted little minds, it is perfectly okay to censor any ideas that don’t agree with your preconceived notions. Now that’s what they call science! L-L!

        • Joel says:

          Yes because our preconceived notions are based on facts.

        • Joel says:

          Hang on sorry. Bit embarrassing, but i’m only 15 so.. yeah. umm… it turns out since preconceived isn’t a word my peer use very often that i have misjudged its meaning and have given a rather inaccurate reply. Our ideas aren’t preconceived, we actually do look for evidence for them. There is evidence for god apart from a rather inaccurate book. We have considerably more evidence than a simple book.

        • Joel says:

          Isn’t evidence sorry must be the flu.

        • gordon_uk says:

          But it is ok for you to want to censor us?

        • B. says:

          Seems like Oh Lee just moves on from question to question which he always has the same answer to: “Sodomy”. Oh Lee just loooves his sodomy.

          So guys, don’t feed the narcissistic Christian pig.

        • gordon_uk says:

          B can we fatten the pig up for new year?

        • Noodlity says:

          Normally, I wouldn’t go out of my way to feed random trolls, but it’s different with zealots. Like I’ve posted above, the more we feed’em, the more they serve our purposes, explicitly showing religion’s detrimental effects on the human psyche.

        • B. says:

          gordon: I suspect the taste will be way to bitter…

        • Ereshkigal says:

          this bozo is so funny guys, just read this please:

          -Certainly people are free to not believe in God

          “Moreover, WE PROSCRIBE ALL HERETICS, entertainers and favorers of heretics, firmly ordaining, that as soon as any such, being excommunicated by the Church, shall contemptuously refuse to make satisfaction within a year�s time, that then he be made infamous by law, and incapable of any office, or of being a member of any council, or of having a voice in the choice of officers, or being a witness: that moreover he be deprived of the power of making a will, and of succeeding into an inheritance. Furthermore, that nobody shall be bound to answer to his complaint or charge, but he be obliged to answer the charge of others against him: and if he be a judge, that his sentence be of no force, and that no causes be brought before him; if he be a lawyer, that his pleading be not admitted; and if a scrivener, that the writings drawn up by him be invalid.

          �And we Honorius, Bishop, servant of the servants of God, do praise, approve, and confirm these laws, to continue for ever, which are made by Frederick, Emperor of the Romans, our dearest son, for the good of all Christians. And in case any man, by a presumptuous attempt, being instigated thereto by the enemy of mankind, shall any way endeavor the infraction of them, let him be assured, that by so doing he will incur the indignation of Almighty God, and of the blessed Apostles Peter and Paul. ”
          1184 Ad Abolendam Bull, pope Lucius III

          -The faggots don’t like hearing that truth

          “Again, concerning the teachings or writings of Brother Peter John Olivi of the order of Brothers Minor, if he has heard it read in the VULGAR TONGUE, or if he has read it to himself or others, and where, and how many times, and who was involved. Again, which of Brother Peter John’s books did he hear read or did he read: the Apocaypse commentary, the treatise on poverty, the one on mendicancy, or some other work? Again, does he consider or believe the writings or teachings of Brother Peter John to be true and catholic?”
          1297 Bernard Gui – Great Inquisitor

          -a sin just as horrible as what Adolf Hitler did.

          “Power of Christianity comes not from peace, but from fanaticism when fighting in the name of God”
          Mein Kampf Adolf Hitler

          “I am as before, Christian, and I always be one of them”
          Adolf Hitler, to General Engel

          “I dislike my job, but I´m happy because I´m doing God´s work, and Hitler´s work, which is the same”
          Henrich Himmler, to SS

          -They close their eyes and ears to any idea that challenges their evil and filthy behaviours.

          “But as to the body, we may say that the devil can possess a man in two ways, just as there are
          two classes of men: those who are in sin, and those who are in grace. In the first way, we may say
          that, since a man is by any mortal sin brought into the devil’s service, in so far as the devil provides
          the outer suggestion of sin either to the senses or to the IMAGINATION, to that extent he is said to
          inhabit the character of a man when he is moved by every stirring temptation, like a ship in the sea
          without a rudder.”
          The Malleus Malleficarum

          “Those who say to protect the faith but without blessing of Divine Pope, are PROTECTORS, and witches and their PROTECTORS are by very law to be EXCOMMUNICATED is
          shown in the Canon of the suppressing of the heresy of witchcraft; especially where it says:
          We excommunicate and anathematize all heretics, Catharists, Sectaries . . . and others, by
          whatever names they are known, etc. And with these it includes all their sympathizers and
          protectors, and others; saying later on: Also we excommunicate all followers, protectors,
          defenders and patrons of such heretics.”
          The Malleus Malleficarum

          -God will stop them

          “Because none have more power than the Dark Goddess, none is so great than her, she commands the undead and the living, the dark and devil, and also the light and shade”
          Innana Tale

        • OH Lee says:

          Ereshkigal is cutting and pasting again.

          Well, at least it’s better than his pathetic attempts at writing in his own fumbling, incoherent English.

          L-L!

      • Danimal says:

        Still waiting for you god to do anything about anything

      • theFewtheProudtheMarinara says:

        “Bible as the revealed word of the Lord God”
        So god thinks rabbits chew their cud and the sun revolves around a flat earth?
        And I realize that at his advanced age he may be going a little senile, but couldn’t he at least have gotten his lineage straight instead of contradicting himself so badly?

        • Atsap Revol says:

          Arkham Asylum for the Religiously Psychotic
          Logbook for November 10, 2010

          Oh Lee has begun posting on more than one thread. I judge him to be entering an advanced stage of religious psychosis. Hence, he must be removed from society before he harms someone. Noodlity, you grab his right arm; Joel, you hang onto the other arm. Gordon, grab one of his legs, Danimal get the other one.

          Restrain him while I inject him with 50 cc’s of tranquilizing dope. Be careful that he does not bite or otherwise harm you. When his body goes limp, drag him to the padded cell at the rear of the Arkham Asylum.

          Because his condition is incurable, we must retain him here at taxpayer’s expense for the rest of his hateful existence. After we have adjusted his daily dosage of yellow capsules, we may consider removing his straight jacket and even allowing him 10 minutes per day in the exercise yard…under close supervision of course.

          Unfortunately, mental health professionals are recognizing more and more cases of this blathering insanity. We have informally designated this condition as the “Fred Phelps Biblical Psychosis.” I have applied for a grant to expand the Arkham facility by 650 cells, bur even that addition may be insufficient.

          Dr. Atsap Revol, Resident Psychiatrist.

        • OH Lee says:

          Atsap Revol says:
          November 10, 2010 at 11:52 AM

          Oh Lee has begun posting on more than one thread. I judge him to be entering an advanced stage of religious psychosis. Hence, he must be removed from society before he harms someone.

          Why don’t you try to remove me, bitch? I’ll beat you until you’re bleeding out of your ears and then make your fucked-up family watch while I cut off your balls and feed them to you.

          Let’s go, punk. No. Didn’t think so.

          Bitch.

        • Noodlity says:

          Awww, ain’t that cute. The wittle wewigious fanatic is acting all stwong and tough. You’re a real hawdcore cwusader, ain’t ya? Yes, you are! Yes, you are!

          Ah, kids these days…

        • gordon_uk says:

          OH Lee

          “I’ll beat you until you’re bleeding out of your ears and then make your fucked-up family watch while I cut off your balls and feed them to you” – how very Christian of you!

        • Ereshkigal says:

          the little christian wants to cry…
          poor boy

          easy to say in a thread, bet he will run away in person

          then again, church and pope say you are HERETIC, no matter how hard you cry

          or you saying that church and pope are wrong?

          read crying baby:
          you have PERNICIOUSLY erred in the faith of god, and you are a child of SUPERTITION, a WANDERER from the faith, and invoker of DEMONS, and IDOLATER, and a HERETIC!

          and what about? L-L?
          well, then Z-Z!
          hahahaha nah for you is T.T!

        • Ereshkigal says:

          and someone please give a sword to this crusader!!!

          hahahaha then again, perhaps he is not able to hold or even carry a sword, too heavy, poor boy.

          still, you can throw bibles to the infidels, it´s like a stone, heavy, silly, empty, and can be handled for any ignorant being, even monkeys can thow them

        • Keith says:

          “it´s like a stone, heavy, silly, empty, and can be handled for any ignorant being, even monkeys can thow them”

          I might point out that monkeys also throw their own shit. OH Lee has been consistently engaging in the verbal equivalent of this since it came onto this site. I might agree to the religious psychosis angle if I didn’t think it showed all of the signs of terminal syphilis. Anyway, I for one will be ignoring any postings from this sad creature. Why give it the attention it craves?

        • B. says:

          That was my point earlier Keith. He feeds on the attention – lets starve him out.

          Anyway, there is no way Oh Lee will change and become an atheist lover of peace. He just loves his violence and threats to much. From what Christians try to bring out about their religion, thats usually not put forward as a redeeming trait.

          Do you agree Oh Lee, that you are a bad representative of Christians? I wouldn’t want to send you off to convert the heathens somewhere, you’d just end up in a pot being eaten by cannibals.

        • Noodlity says:

          I think I’m starting to agree with B. here. It was fun for a while, and I still stand by my comment on him doing our work for us, but feeding him may not actually be even necessary. Seeing as how he jumps from thread to thread, therefore advertizing his sodomy-obsessed version of Xianity for a maximum spread, I’d say he’s donig a good job all on his own.

          Let’s just thumbdown the twit whenever we see him, and leave it at that. Since he’s got a dot-com site link in his name, the other visitors will just label him as another spambot and simply skip over his nonsense.

        • Atsap Revol says:

          ARKHAM ASYLUM LOGBOOK, NOV 11, 2010, 10:30 am
          RE: Patient #6945, OH (shit) Lee

          Patient is displaying symptoms of increased aggression. I will administer another 50cc’s of tranquilizing dope. Threats of beating me until I bleed out of my ears show complete detachment from reality, because beating me is impossible while restrained in a straight jacket.

          Staff is advised to ignore further threats from this psychotic individual. If his screams continue we will place him in the soun-proof room and even gag him if necessary.

          OH (shit) Lee is a sad example of the Fred Phelps Syndrome. Nothig can be done to help him. As my resident associates, Dr. Keith and Dr. B, have observed, giving this sorry bastard any attention only encourages him. Therefore, I advise ignoring him completely. Pay no attention to his whining and threats. He isn’t worth three more keystrokes.

          Dr. Atsap Revol, Resident Psychiatrist

        • gordon_uk says:

          Shows we really need some new hate mail (and concerned Criticism) when we find the likes of OH Lee entertaining.

        • B. says:

          I fully concur with Dr. Atsap’s diagnosis and I will relay this in my report.

          Dr B.

      • Mitch says:

        Wow, and here I thought that the the New Testament said say something about Jesus fulfilling the old prophecy and creating a new covenant based on love? I know most Christians can’t bring themselves to believe that Jesus loves gays just as much as anyone else, but this attitude always surprises me. Further, I seem to recall that Jesus was supposed to have granted access to heaven to one of the criminals that was crucified along side him.

        Things of Note:
        If you believe you should follow the ten commandments, then you should stop eating bacon and cheeseburgers. They’re part of the same covenant.
        If you believe that Jesus died for your sins, try Matthew 7:12. Something about getting what you give or some karma-ish thing. Plus bacon!

      • Seven says:

        Ooh! “Faggot”, that’s a new one! Someone’s feeling homophobic.

        You are very judgmental and opinionated. Please try to search yourself for a sense of humor next time you are comparing comedians to child rapists/molesters.

        R’amen.

    • Ramen says:

      “I understand the comparison of pirate decrease to global temperature increase was to further the point of the illogicality of religion, but you assumed there was a lesser amount of pirates. In fact there are more pirates now than there was in the 1700′s,”

      Coldest December in the UK since records began …

      Coincidence?

      I think not.

    • Bekster says:

      Romans 1:20

      “For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.
      Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.”

      • Drained and Washed Clean says:

        D&WC 9:21

        “No one should care what a book of fairy tales says, and threatening people with fairy tales is even more ridiculous. Get over yourself. Ramen”

  4. plumberbob says:

    @ 49 – Maroun,

    English is evidently not your native language, since the pompous style that you use has several grammatical errors that are hard to see only because your style is hard to read. “Who” is nominative; “whom” is objective. Your run-on sentences at the top of your last post would have gotten you a failure on an English exam in any college.

    The context of your Isaiah reference must be noted, and the correct translation and grammar is needed. העלמה , the Hebrew word used in the verse in Isaiah, means. “the young woman”. It has never meant anything else. Please check that in Brown-Driver-Briggs if you doubt me. Isaiah was speaking to king Ahaz about one of Ahaz’s wives who had sacrificed her child. The young woman was well known as we’ve learned elsewhere in the Hebrew bible. It would have been silly for Isaiah to have been speaking of some event that was to take place centuries in the future; the politics of the time was crucial,and if Ahaz made the wrong choice, the kingdom would fall, and it did.

    The blatant mis-translation of “the young woman,” to “a virgin” is unconscionable fraud, but since it was to be read by only the clergy, and preached to the illiterate masses, it was “OK”. This kind of wishful mis-translation is common in the early authorized texts. Remember that Wycliffe and Cloverdale paid with their lives for the audacity of translation.

    RAmen

    • Frankie says:

      You have too much time on your hands.

  5. Danimal says:

    Maroun,

    Can you give me a logical reason why anyone should follow the book of your “patriarchs”? I can give you one logical reason to reject it: Ezekiel 9:5-7. I think maybe you are the one selecting your beliefs without logically thinking them through. Maybe you didn’t select christianity because you thought it was “cool” but I bet you didn’t sit down with a blank slate and logically deduce that you would worship the god of abraham either. If I can take an educated guess I would say that your parents and your community indoctrinated you at a young age.

    You argue that religion shouldn’t be satirized because it does so many good things for the world but what about the bad things? (crusades, inquisition, The July War in Lebanon, etc.) Humans would still perform acts of charity without religion, you said as much yourself in post #28. Yet without religion you could wouldn’t have all the religious conflict in the world. That isn’t to say that people wouldn’t still do evil things, but the nature of religious conflicts means that both sides will fight to the death and for generations beyond. (see ATSAP REVOL’s commentary on certitude http://www.venganza.org/2010/06/18/what-happened-to-the-concept-of-respecting-others/ )

    Now I believe what I’ve written is a logical reason for being an atheist. Throw in the fact that there is no proof of your god, all the times the church has claimed to be guided by god but was wrong (geocentrism for example), the good works of atheists (kiva team), the fact that the bible has been bastardized in the past and is still being manipulated to this day for political agendas (Conservapedia), and that atheists are accepting of new ideas when there is evidence present instead of being trapped by dogma. There suddenly appears not just one logical argument for atheism but a rather large and solid case for atheism.

    Maroun I have a feeling as I write this you are going to reject what I have to say and that’s fine. I’m not out to convert you, I’ll leave that up to logic and time as they have the best chance, but at the end of the day you have to live with the atrocities of your religion and the worst thing I’m seeing with the FSM is Insightful Ape being a little rude. Chew on that noodle.

    RAmen
    Danimal

    • pinataheart says:

      Though I do like the ideas of what your are saying and a good Christian bashing. And I love atheism and antheists myself, but your argument speaks logic only against the one religion: Christianity.
      It is like the same flawed assumption of Pascal’s Wager: No God or Christian God. There is no other option. And that just isn’t true.
      Just a minor correction but much respect your way, Danimal.

      RAmen
      pinataheart

  6. Maroun Shami says:

    This is the last post I shall make as I’m quite busy, I thank everyone for their interesting contributions.

    Plumberbob you basically reiterated what I said about the reference to “virgin”. You also mock my English and you are actually right, English is not my first language but I think I speak and write English pretty decently for a teenage immigrant who’s native language isn’t even in the same alphabet (Arabic). Furthermore English isn’t even my second language, because in the Middle East in school we are taught French, I learned Italian and I have taken studies in Greek and Aramaic before being able to even articulate a full thought in English, so please don’t criticize my English, I try my best.

    Thanks Bob for your post I found it interesting but you have many concepts as I’m saying for the third time I don’t believe God wrote the Bible and I do not believe in an anthropomorphic God, hence why we don’t depict God because it is hard to depict everything at once. The Bible is suppose to be used as a source of Wisdom, as in experience, etc. not followed scientifically, which I went into a bit of detail in my last post. I agree with you wholly on the matter of the spoon fed believers though, it annoys me. I also never said by the way my “faction gets the Bible” over others. If you ever get anytime to read the words of a poet of my religion (Khalil Gibran) he’s actually pretty well known, his work demonstrates we are distinctly different from other Christians. Please read this excerpt from his book The Prophet to get a feel of our philosophy: http://www.katsandogz.com/onreligion.html

    @Insightful Ape, you still don’t get it. Read what Bob said and maybe you’ll understand. “You know what? That is the case for the vast majority of new converts to christianity in the third world. It is the “cool” thing in China and other nations.So the new christians are all unintelligent people? Is that what you are saying?” That’s exactly what I’m saying. If they’re believing because it is “cool”, than they are rather unintelligent. Lastly you say “How about threatening dissent with eternal hellfire?”. You criticized me for supposed ignorant assumption, while you are a hypocrite because you do what you accuse. If you are implying I believe atheists burn in hell, you couldn’t be more wrong. Our first patriarch was a doctor and he specifically helped Christians and pagans indiscriminately to show not to isolate and extol just one’s group and salvation is for all those who are good, regardless if they believe in God or not [it has to do with charitable and good action being prayer and the word we use for "prayer" is Qurbono, which means an offering]. But I never said you’d burn in hell, for all I know according to my beliefs I’ll go to hell if I consciously choose evil without remorse and you’ll go to heaven because you are a good person regardless of affiliation with God. I am far from the fundamentalist protestants you might be getting that notion from.

    Again thanks everyone for the entertaining discussion.

    • theFewtheProudtheMarinara says:

      Maroun, your English is far superior to half the supposed English-speakers on this site. Thanks for a rare intelligent debate.

  7. Insightful Ape says:

    You know maroun? If there is one thing that arguing with you has clarified for me better than I ever knew, is that there is no such thing as christianity. Only christianities.
    For example, preachers at prosperity churches insist, the lord wants you to be rich. Never mind that jesus says the exact opposite of that in Luke.Likewise you telling me that if I am a nonbelievers I will not necessarily go to hell. So when jesus said “anyone who doesn’t follow me will be cast into the fire like a withered branch”, he was just kidding? Good thing I have your word for it.
    We have received unsolicited preachings from a wide array of the faithful on this forum: from young earth creationists to a self identified Maronite teenager. Who had very little in common apart from feeling threatened by a work of satire.
    Which is why I am thinking about writing my own will be titled “The varieties of religious experience: encounters with trolls at the altar of Our Noodly Master”.

    • Michelle says:

      a) You can’t resist the asshole ridiculing can you? As I suspect a religion made up entirely of science nerds who can’t get any. b) he’s not trying to convert you just defend against your wide ranging attacks by explaining what his particular sect believes.

      • Insightful Ape says:

        Asshole ridiculing? Does that mean ridiculing assholes?
        No, I guess I can’t resist that.
        Which is why I am posting this.

    • Thomas says:

      Jesus LOVES YOU! =D

      • Drained and Washed Clean says:

        I do not know anyone named Jesus, so that would make it a little difficult for someone of that name to love me. So, could you explain to me why some person named Jesus loves me, and why this is such a big deal? Seems more like a stalker…

        • Insightful Ape says:

          Oh, come on, lady. Just fly down to Cancun for your next
          vacation and you’ll meet plenty of them. What is more, I hear they are typically charming and passionate.
          Now which is the one our buddy Thomas meant, I am not sure.

    • Anna says:

      when you say about you do not have to fear hell now because maroun said you did not have to I find that funny. Yes I know your being sarcastic. Your name is very fitting anyone who believes any religion as ridiculous as this one is very confused. In Christianity atleast I can see healings and people brought back from the dead. Have you ever seen YOUR god bring anyone back from the dead? the difference is I worship a living breathing God and you don’t. I feel God I feel the Holy Spirit do you feel your gods spirit? Has he ever answered you back My God has answered back. See these are all things you need to show you have more then just a religion. I do not have a religion I have a relationship with my saviour.

      • Keith says:

        BARRRF!

      • Ereshkigal says:

        wow!

        then by your own words, YOU have seen healings and raising dead people, you have been witnessed that, because you say “I can see”, and you say that you have felt God, and even that he talks to you, and by words of Henry Drummon:
        then you, Anna, by oratory, speeches, internet and whatsoever, you too pass along the word of god to the rest of the world, then everyone, look and meet the Prophet of the Internet!, is that the way that really is?, that being against Anna words is being against God, because he talk to you and he tells you what is right and what is wrong?, delusional person, who are you to even think that you can know the difference between good and evil? are you god?, how can you possibly imagine that your god, so powerful that he created everything and is the source of everything, could possibly be interested in YOU?, let´s extend the testaments!!! we will have a book of Anna!, we will slip it between numbers and deuteronomy.

        AND:

        heretic person, by your own church you are incapable of talk about god and faith:
        “Wherefore S. John Chrysostom says on the text, It is not good to marry
        (S. Matthew xix): What else is woman but a foe to friendship, an unescapable punishment, a
        necessary evil, a natural temptation, a desirable calamity, a domestic danger, a delectable
        detriment, an evil of nature, painted with fair colours!”
        “Thereby she showed that she doubted, and had little in the word of God. And all this is
        indicated by the etymology of the word; for Femina comes from Fe and Minus, since she is ever
        weaker to hold and preserve the faith.” in the words of Bernard Gui
        AND:
        “To conclude. All witchcraft comes from carnal lust, which is in women insatiable. See
        Proverbs xxx: There are three things that are never satisfied, yea, a fourth thing which says not, It
        is enough; that is, the mouth of the womb. More bitter than death, again, because that is natural and destroys only the body; but the sin
        which arose from woman destroys the soul by depriving it of grace, and delivers the body up to the
        punishment of sin.” writting in the declarations of Pope Gregory.

        so you are a Witch, because woman have no right to speak about god with those kind of comments, and, if you say that there are no witches:

        “Whether the belief that there are such beings as witches is so essential a part of the Catholic
        faith that obstinately to maintain the opposite opinion manifestly savours of heresy.” in the Malleus.

        AND: in your statment about jewish being the choosen by god:

        “Again, they claim that at the end of the sixth period of church history – that is, the present period which began with Saint Francis – the carnal church, Babylon, the great whore is to be rejected by Christ just as the synagogue of the Jews was rejected because it crucified Christ, for the carnal church is crucifying and persecuting Christ’s life by persecuting those brothers in the Franciscan order called the poor and spiritual. ”

        so we can see of your heretical statment, according to the inquisitor manual in 1315. jewish is banished by the church, because they destroyed Christ

        if you dare to say that there is no need to church, because god can manifest to each person:

        “Again, they say that if God had not provided the church with Brother Peter John or someone like him, the whole world would be blind or heretical. Again, they say that those who do not accept the teachings and writings of Brother Peter John are blind, because they do not see the truth of Jesus Christ; and those who reprove and condemn his doctrine are heretics.” by Bernard Gui, and:

        “If anyone truly would presume [to do such] against [it], let him be treated by all as contumacious, and a rebel of the Roman Church.” by Pope John XXII

        and by all this, and according to saints and popes of your OWN CHURCH, we find Anna, that you are a witch, that you have perniciously erred in the faith of God, and that you are a child of superstition, a wanderer from the faith, an invoker of demons, an idolater, and a HERETIC.

        RAMEN!

      • theFewtheProudtheMarinara says:

        When I start hearing voices I’m going to have a relationship with a good therapist. And if I start seeing people come back from the dead, a TEAM of therapists.

  8. Reverend Marinara says:

    Maroun,

    You’re usin’ ‘dem big city words…….

    While you are justly pointing out the broad characterizations of the book, and point we fans of this site are making, that religion is flawed, you are, it religion’s defense also making generalizations.

    I don’t see all religions teaching selflessness, nor do I see religion as the only source of that lesson. In fact, selflessness may be a professed value of many religions, and a mere blip on the radar screen to some I’m all too aware of. And, while selflessness may be a professed value, the practice often becomes self-righteousness, and condescending patronization of those deemed “less fortunate”. (ie they don’t need government help, or corporations to pay a living wage, they just to have Jesus in their heart). Religions do profess positive values. But these positive values can be learned and manifested in secular ways, too.

    And please, never suggest that God and religion are synonymous. Religion is an artificial caricature of God created by and for people since they lack the power to comprehend His truth, His creation, His nature. Religion can be a unifying force for good, as it rallies communities around the notion that “God is good” and want to be closer to that God. But, when people hold up their chosen artificial notion as absolute truth, then foolishness such as what the Kansas Board of Education did, or worse – terrorism, wars, etc., can occur.

    I would love to believe that religion is of more value than harm. Perhaps, all things considered, it is. But, when it crosses the line it needs to be called out, and truth be told.

    RAmen
    Reverend Marinara

    • Kupcake says:

      I agree with this whole comment. ^
      Ramen

    • Wonderer says:

      All religion started as a way of life – fundamentally all are same. Somewhere along the way, texts were introduced, which were fabrications from the mind of (wo)men and therefore, flawed, like all humans. And then, those texts were further interpreted by priests or churches, temples etc. And then come individual practitioners and their levels of understanding. Can very clearly see what the compounded interpretations have led to.

      • Atsap Revol says:

        No, religions are not “FUNDAMENTALLY ALL THE SAME.” Aren’t now and never were. Some religions do not even have a god or gods. You are right about the fabrications of the mind; that’s how religions originated and how they are perpetuated.

        • Brit Pirate says:

          I think the point Maroun is trying to make is that by being exaggerated in our satire, although exaggeration is a good way to write satire, the Gospel does not show those of us who feel the way Bobby does in a good light.

          I used to be a fundamentalist atheist. A hard headed, dye in the wool, cannot discuss with me because I’ll laugh at you, and quote the silly Bible passages back at you atheist. I still have no faith, or a belief in God, and the fundamentalist sects of all religions annoy me, but I’ve got to a point where I can discuss it without resorting to childishness in tone and argument.

          This is what worries me about the “atheist cause”, as some would say. We very often come across as arrogant, childish and wanting the fight. As much as I respect, and agree with in many cases, Richard Dawkins book God Delusion does come across this way. Not only is it poorly written in comparison to his other books, but because he is not a theologian his arguments are flawed in ways that only those who have studied religion in depth can see.

          This is how we seem to be. Yes we should be able to make this joke, but if the joke is too silly, it looses its edge. The same, alas, cannot be said for religion, but this is why we should try and work differently. Yes, the exaggerated silliness in Pastafarianism is there to mirror that of other religions, but people who believe the Bible won’t see it that way. They will wear clothes of more than one fabric, and not stone their neighbours for working on the sabbath, and not do all the things the Bible tells them too. But if you point out all those things, tell them they are extremely silly, and say “How can you be a Christian if you don’t do what it says in the Bible?”, a point I still cannot get a fulfilling answer for, then they will turn round and ignore all our rhetoric, no matter how good, funny or evidence based it may be.

          I love the Gospel, and I enjoy the debates here. I just don’t want the atheist voices to look like the trolls, and the theists to sound like the reasonable ones.

          Also, attacking someone who makes a bad argument and cannot spell or use grammar correctly is ok, not great, but ok. Attacking someone who clearly hasn’t spoken English all their life, yet still makes a very precise point which is understandable, and picking up on the few mistakes they do make, is assholery.

          RAmen

        • B. says:

          In “God and the new atheists” John F. Haught makes a point very similar to yours. He says that the “new atheists” (his term) miss the point when they criticize modern Christians with silly parts of the bible or bring up the direct logic fallacies of religion. While I diasgree with Haught in his outlook (That is religious) he does point to a problem that atheists have to deal with. Most Christians realize you shouldn’t read the Bibel literally from cover to cover and therefore those atheistic argument doesn’t hit them the slightest.

          This is something we atheists should take into consideration when discussing religion. I will also take the, possibly highly judgmental, stand that atheists stand for a more realistic, positive and hopeful world view and therefore should, in all discussions, not resort to the level of fear-mongers and idiots. Calling people names doesn’t help the slightest – you are after all supposed to be the voice of reason against superstition.

          And I of course don’t mean that religious people are fear-mongers or idiots – in most cases.

          R’Amen

        • Gordon_UK says:

          I love the debates here, over the year I have spent hanging around I have learned quite a lot of better ways to counter theist’s arguments while having fun at the same time.

          Though I do still find quoting the bible’s more ridicules parts when theists use other quotes to try to defend horrid views.

          G

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