Dear Sir;
It was with the utmost regret that I stumbled upon your horror religion. Do you not know that G-d will not be mocked? He who gave this world to us and created us in his imagine is surely not one to be insulted this way. You are a false prophet, and if you don not change your ways you will surely come to regret it when you are burning in the fires of hell. My G-d is a loving G-d, but you are sorely tempting him and he has shown the ability to be pushed to far. (Do the towns of Sodom and Gammorah have any meaning to you?)
I will pray for your soul; I only hope it is not to late. Turn your heart to Jesus and let his light fill you up; you will surely see that to worship a dinner item will only lead to eternal ruin/damnation. If you can’t do it for yourself, you should think of those poor pasta believers you have turned away from G-d; surely you will realize that you are going to be held responsible for thier mis-guided souls, as well?
I am sorry if I will be keeping you awake at night with the fears for your eternal soul, but sometimes a person has to be made afraid to understnad their mistake. Why do you think they are called G-d fearing men? Do you really think your bowl of noodles will enspire fear? Hah, you can talk about pirates and pasta all day, but on the day of Judgement I will be glad I am one of the righteous, and not one of the misleaden. I am praying to G-d to heal your ugly heart and commune you to His beauty and His ways. May G-d have mercy on your soul;
Chuck
What do you guys think – real or fake?
| 
@ 448 – gordon_uk -,
Heaven is Heaven for Heaven’s sake. The point of our being there is to be happy. I picture the “stripper factory” as, among other things, a salon, a barbershop, a spa and gym. Like every other Earthly description of Heavenly concepts, the language is inadequate to properly describe. I foresee a spring on the side of the beer volcano that dispenses a nice Pinot Noir. We all make our Heavens to our own specifications. I’m sure that yours will suit both you and your Trophy Wife.
May the sauce be with you both.
RAmen
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@plumberbob, (re #450)
Thanks fror the mention – I certainly agree with you. It’s worth noting that, being (kinda) pirates, we’re allowed to kidnap wenches as part of the deal, anyways. Says I to meself, says I: How about kidnapping Alleged Demoness / Lilith, and giving her a hearty “WELCOME ABOARD” without waiting????
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@ 452 – Apprentice Frederic – Feb 13th, 2010
(re #450)
I would agree with you except for the fact that most of us are repelled by the pushy way that the religiosos kidnap (sometimes physically, sometimes psychologically)people who are not ready or desirous of conversion. Alleged Demoness/ Lilith will be a much better pirate wench when she is ready, and freely requests the conversion. If we want, we can include a “kidnapping” as part of the ceremony. With a bit of patience, I think she will join us soon.
We should remind Alleged Demoness/Lilith that there is a thirty day return policy whereby the FSM allows one to take their previous faith back, no questions asked.
It’s good for us to also review the business ethics of the pirate community to which we aspire:
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=pirates-rational-choice&SID=mail&sc=emailfriend
RAmen
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To plumberbob @ 451
Thanks for the name check in 450 and the wife was happy being described as a ‘Trophy Wife’, being 4 and half months pregnant it was a nice boost.
RAmen
G
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@plumberbob (#453)
OK, plumberbob, I think I’ve finally got it, thanks….LOL….
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@ 454 – gordon_uk -
Tell TW Mazel Tov for me.
I think that we’ll be very happy to have Alleged Demoness aboard when she decides it’s time. I’ve been pleased with her progress.
RAmen
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~AKA Child of Colbert and the Cable Guy AKA Burrowing Gruel Beast~
How come nobody ever gave me or one of my multiple persona’s an official welcome aboard? :/ We are all hurt. jk jk
Pinataheart:
May the Alleged Demoness be forever in the ebbs and flows of… well. Something. Love all you guys. and hope the conversations last forever. Or at least until our consciousnesses end.
Burrowing Gruel Beast:
No! No! NOOO! There is no way that you can believe these fools, Alleged Demoness. Surely you can come to the logical conclusion that logic is illogical?!
Child of Colbert and the Cable Guy:
Agreein’ with them just ain’t Christian. And I know cuz I am one. I was saved and everythin’ turned my life around too. Used ta be I would party and get all drunk. Now I get all drunk alone in seclusion where nobody can see and go to church. Just broke through all them chains that were bindin’ me. Hallelujah praise tha LAWD!
But back to seriousness.
On the matter of free will, I cannot choose to believe that I have no free will.
Or perhaps I haven’t the ability to choose to believe against it. I don’t know.
In any case, from the standpoint of the psychologist I want to be one day, the idea of there being no free will, though an interesting one, could be dangerous if it were believed by the general public because of the harm that these no longer caring people could do to themselves, others, and society as a whole. So whether it exists or not we need free will. Some can still do fine and be good without it. Others don’t. Just like some are perfectly decent people with Christianity, whereas other’s say “the Devil made me do it” in bad or are bigoted or whatever.
On the matter of the soul, I don’t know whether it exists or not, but I, through personal experiences previously mentioned on this site, believe in a deity of some sort who I affectionately call “Love” who through inspirations has “told”, for lack of a better words because it wasn’t actually a voice, me that there exists a place afterwords. But I could just be completely insane. Which, if I were in the shoes of others, I would say is probably the inference to the best explanation of my behavior, either that or I am a liar. But I just can’t bear to razor away so much of what I believe that it would make me believe that I am nuts. That would just be counterproductive to my goals and dreams.
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Wow, just wow. I am COMPLETELY caught off guard. I’m completely surprised that you would want me as part of your group, especially since all I’ve been hearing since I got here was how completely illogical I am. And why the hell do I have to convert? If I can be selectively christian then why can’t I be selectively polytheistic too? I’m flattered by the offer, but very confused too.
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@pinataheart, #457
There once was a man who said “Damn,
It is borne in upon me that i am
A being who moves
In predestinate grooves,
I’m not even a bus, I’m a tram!”
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@ 457 – pinataheart -,
Some of us think that having multiple personalities is a problem in that you don’t really know who you are. In some ways it seems as though you slip from one persona to another in a way that is similar to how the fundis slip from rationality , demanding logical proofs, to crying pitifully to their invisible friends for help, to behaving as policy ministers for those same invisible friends.
Stability of personality is considered a sign of good mental health in most cases. We may take on different roles and jobs throughout our lives, but having a stable persona allows us to play our roles to the hilt, and not go crazy at the same time.
To those who come to this site and show us growth and stability and comfort in their own identities, we welcome aboard with enthusiasm. There are others who need more time and experience to develop the required stability to make a reliable and trustworthy member of this ship’s crew. Those people we do not reject out of hand but allow them the time necessary to mature before we welcome them aboard.
Please be patient with us as we try to be patient with you. Stay with us, and demonstrate your maturity and dedication to the goals of Pastafarianism. When you are ready, and we have been convinced of your adequate preparation, we will accept you with great pleasure.
As Pastafarians, we’re all here on this site to have fun and support each other. We do, however, need to keep our mission and our theology separate. Our mission is to prevent the introduction of religious mythology into public school science curricula. Our theology is satire; when Creationists try to stick their mythology into science classes, ours must be there too.
RAmen
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#457,
There are a few things you may be missing.
First, that free will is an illusion. That doesn’t mean responsibility is an illusion. Human behavior does not occur outside a context of motives. There are those whose actions show a disregard for the welfare of others. Those individuals will still be facing consquences, legal or otherwise. Punishment does affect human behavior. What you seem to be saying is that failure to use the phrase “free will” will make people behave wantonly. Do you have any evidence of that or are you just guessing? And incidentally none of the neuroscientists studying the matter have ever advocated abolishing the penal system.
Now on to the “soul” thing: we know with high precision which parts of brain are involved in specific functions that are traditionally attributed to “soul”: speech, memory (distinct locations for memory for words v. shapes), executive function, etc. Why do you suppose a transcendental being like soul should interact with brain in this way? Should it not be outside the bounds of time and space by definition?
Which brings me to my next question. How does the soul interact with the brain anyway? If such a thing exists it has to somehow exercise its function by affecting your brain cells. The electrical activity of brain cells is influenced by electrical and chemical gradients across their membranes-and nothing else. If one day you can show (either in the lab or the living brain) that there are neurons whose firing depends on spooky, unidentiable factors (spirits or otherwise) you’ll win the Nobel prize.
And that brings me to my final point: you can read a big textbook on neuroscience from cover to cover and not come upon souls or spirits mentioned even once. To borrow a phrase from LaPlace, that hypothesis is not needed.
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Hi, Chuck and #267. Your question:
“…Do the towns of Sodom and Gammorah have any meaning to you?…”
If still interested in answers, here you go. Here I pretend those disasters really happened. I try to explain two versions.
·A· “Divine Punishment”
To me, it means God does not always know what terrible consequences his doings may have in time. Give it a Free Will or Poor Morale, the name for the reason doesn’t matter. In common sense, it is actually a _flaw in design_, since all flaws like curiosity, lust for sex, pleasure (eventually causing lack of attention to the word of God) were incorporated into first species, including human. Humans make mistakes. Sometimes Gods do. By the way, those who survived were really the ‘Survival of the fittest’. Disasters happened beacause God has choosen the simplest way: not to repair the damage, but destroy deficient population, – cleaning the mess, then.
Wait.
Ask: why there were so many times cleaning the mess, yet in the end we, the “misleaden” who post comments here, still exist and are still alive? Were all previous ‘Purifications’ necessary then? Or are we, the “misleaden”, really deficient?
> if answer is ‘yes, deficient’, or
‘He gave you free will to decide that’ which anyway means deficient in our case, then:
Having so much deficient production, factory’s production designer would have long been resigned willingly (if he’s conscious), replacing himself with someone more qualified. This absence could partially explain why Bible texts stopped extending at some point, and why miracles don’t happen as often as earlier. Then you are praying the wrong deity (you should pray not to one that created the Flood).
Look at another possibility: designer is just constantly testing us, eliminating the most non-loyal ones, – ie, we are still in process of God-driven ‘Selection’, leading to purely religious population. But why don’t you agree with Darwin then?
I know, I know. Revelations present the real answer: The Trial, it’s not over yet, and I’ll certainly be convicted. See above: IT MEANS I AM DEFICIENT, I already said that, and you can’t change my mind simply bugging me with terrible disasters; I am already aware of most of them. I am aware of more than any out-dated book has to offer, and didn’t change my mind yet. Honestly. Try something else.
> if answer is ‘no. He had some special plans for you’, then: along with
·B· “Divinely Planned”
, this is a honest answer if you keep in mind omnipotency and omnisciency. Accordingly, Sodom and Gomorrah were populated with sinners to a sole purpose: to be destroyed later, to show people example. What a cruel plan! Or what a remarkable trick! Imagine those populations were unconscious enough dummies specifically designed to be destroyed without regret, it made a fearsome show! God’s ways are beyound finding out! Maybe the entire FSM idea is also specially designed (by that God), along with totally everything going on here and there. I probably can’t prove it isn’t! But in this case you should stop intervening the divine plan!
But wait.
You, _Chuck_, may be born with a sole purpose to once THROW DOWN THE WHOLE FSM argument, so all world will be converted by your argument into whatever you believe. DON’T GIVE UP THEN! Or, give up then, – anyway you can’t change the divine plan. This is the case where Darwin’s evolution not necessary. By the way, I’d really think twice before crossing with such a merciless entity as this God. (In the end, I’ll anyway do; Remember? – coz it’s divine plan. I’ll do, but not before thinking twice)
Now I honestly and openly answer the question about Sodom and Gomorrah: If they’d happen to be divine disasters, their reasons are far from being clear. Anyway, FSM doesn’t state He did it, and assures me He won’t ever do such horrible thing to a populated region, at least not without proper evac. So I’d not be worried awaiting in fear for any future divine disaster.
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This guy was a jew (the dashes where the o is in God is a jew thing). just so everyone knows. poor thing just doesn’t realize quite yet his place in this world and the true amazingness of his holiness. FSM forever <3
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To Alleged Demoness and pinataheart
Release your inner pirate and join us!
RAmen
G
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If Chuck is a Christian, why does he type ‘G-d’ in the Jewish manner?
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Sir, if the tales of Sodom and Gammorah were true, God would have smote Las Vegas about fifteen times by now. And Korea would be in trouble too. Say what you want but eating sushi off a strippers fully exposed breasts…. niiice. I picture the Stripper Factory being something like that.
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#457, pinataheart,
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You have Goals and Dreams? Wow!
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Just so you guys know…
I don’t have multiple personality disorder…
I just thought that if I were to post the type of posts i did with “Child of Colbert and the Cable Guy” and “The Burrowing Gruel Beast” would not have made the intended points as well under the banner of my name “pinataheart”.
If anyone was upset by the idea of me using multiple names for that reason, then I wholeheartedly apologize. I just saw some things that I, as myself, could not say with as much impact.
And yes I have hopes and dreams, number 466 “ATSAP REVOL” I know you were being sarcastic but I don’t know why or what your main point was. Yes I realize that everyone has hopes and dreams. But I realize that mine, personally, I don’t know about everyone else, hang upon the concept that my perception is real and that I am not completely out of my gourd, whether that is true or not, I admit that I need the idea.
There were many good points by Insightful Ape:
“First, that free will is an illusion. That doesn’t mean responsibility is an illusion. Human behavior does not occur outside a context of motives. There are those whose actions show a disregard for the welfare of others. Those individuals will still be facing consquences, legal or otherwise. Punishment does affect human behavior. What you seem to be saying is that failure to use the phrase “free will” will make people behave wantonly. Do you have any evidence of that or are you just guessing? And incidentally none of the neuroscientists studying the matter have ever advocated abolishing the penal system.” – Insightful Ape
~~My response: True true. If we keep the system of holding people to responsibilities then we can still keep people in check for the most part. And also true that I don’t know that the dismissal of the concept of free will would cause all people to behave wantonly. I am only afraid that I personally would behave wantonly. So from a very pragmatic standpoint I say that I NEED free will, at the very least the concept. And though I hate to do this about anything, I can’t allow myself to think way too heavily on it for the protection of myself and others.
“Now on to the “soul” thing: we know with high precision which parts of brain are involved in specific functions that are traditionally attributed to “soul”: speech, memory (distinct locations for memory for words v. shapes), executive function, etc. Why do you suppose a transcendental being like soul should interact with brain in this way? Should it not be outside the bounds of time and space by definition?” – Insightful Ape.
You assumed that I had a dualistic view, which put simply, I don’t have. Yes, indeed, I believe that everything, in some manner, is physical. The soul would be no different. Love would be no different. Everything has to be physical in some way form or fashion. Does that mean that I have evidence for the existence of a physical soul or of Love? No. Can I imagine explanations? You bet’cha. Can they be tested? Not within our lifetimes. Why do I believe then? Like I said PERSONAL experiences. Crazy things that I could not explain, but, on a faith in science, I believe COULD ONE DAY be explained. Were I trying to convert others, I would need much more. The burden of proof, I understand, is upon me to present evidence for the existence of these things. For that reason I think that any religion’s attempts of converting anyone is pure folly. I am not trying to convince you or anyone of anything. I was merely stating what I believed. And I admit that my beliefs are completely indefensible in any objective way. But I personally can, indeed, MUST, believe my own subjective experiences, or I will truly be in the nuthouse.
If you are really curious, I will tell you what I believe. I believe that the soul is the brain, the physical brain. And the spirit is just some sort of storage device that is sent to another deminsion/universe. Whether it be an electrical frequency, some small, physical thing, or even if the spirit is just Love memorizing everything about us through Her connection with us, then it must be physical. The same thing goes for Love, who I believe is actually physically in another dimension/universe or is, in fact, a zero-dimensional object in three dimensional space and since She is so and Her limits are all undefined, She encompasses everything (I don’t believe the zero-dimensional object because that means that Love would have to be the only non-physical thing that we have ever seen: nothingness. Emptiness. Unfilled space. But it is interesting, as even the majority of an atom is made up of empty space. But then I run into the problem: “How can empty space think?”) All of these as mentioned before are unprovable. And they can’t be disproved. So unless you have had personal experiences with Love then please, by all means, Occam’s Razor this possibility out and I will even respect you for it and believe that Love respects you for it.
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pinata, you are obviously entitled to your opinion. You maybe right or wrong. But there is just one point I have to bring to your attention.
The word “soul” in the English language doesn’t mean what you are using for. It means neither the brain nor a function of the brain. It mean something different altogether.
It is a matter of semantics but it is not trivial. When you take a word that has an established meaning and take it to mean something different you are going to be misunderstood.
A good example of this is Einstein’s use of the word “god”. He tossed it around frequently and then got exasperated when people thought he was religious. They couldn’t have known that he was using the word to mean something very different than what everyone else used it for.
So I guess I’m suggesting not to use the word soul to mean something it doesn’t to anyone other than you. Just a friendly suggestion.
RAmen
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To pinataheart
Fist of all chill!
I did find you post as ‘Child of Colbert and the Cable Guy’ very funny as an example of how some hate mailer come across. But I’m not sure that there was any point being put across though.
As to ‘free will’ religious dogma implies that has to be ‘free will’ otherwise there could be no sin. An other point on ‘free will’ is that in resent study (by Marc Hauser, professor of evolutionary biology at Harvard University) that shows that humans developed morals before religion. (for the full details go to http://www.cell.com/trends/cognitive-sciences/fulltext/S1364-6613%2809%2900289-7)
On to the ’sole’, this is a debate that as been rumbling on for thousands years without any proof to back up this assumption despite may scientific studies on the matter. I see you have at lest though of the problem of storage of these soles, though in some sort of interdenominational data base? Your argument seems only to be based on your belief but that’s like my daughter who believes in Santa, it does not make him real.
Anyway we digress, the main point of this site is not to do with who’s right and who’s wrong, in fact in breaks the FSM’s first and fifth “I’d really rather you didn’ts”, it’s about keeping government(s) (including schools etc.) secular which will help protect all religions including secular beliefs.
RAmen
Gordon
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Aww shux, Pinataheart, I was just funnin’ you. Of course you have Goals and Dreams! I would even go so far as to say Aspirations. You’d better go ahead and believe your “subjective experiences,” because we sure don’t want you in the “nuthouse,” as you said you would be.
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Your selection of “Pinataheart” as one of your alter egos suggests an unhappy self image.
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Bless your little Heart (and Soul),
AR
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Are you for real? Do you honestly think we’re serious here? Dude, chill out. The point of FSM-ism isn’t to create a serious religion. The point is to emphasize the flaws of traditional religions, and especially of creationism as a science, by blowing their own logic way out of proportion, to the point where it becomes comedy, thereby highlighting how ridiculous those arguments truly are. So take a deep breath, open your mind a little, and recognize FSM-ism for what it is: another argument against ID theories, unique only in that it relies on satire and carbohydrates for its basis. It’s not a religion; it’s an argument.
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I am sorry. I am sure it did seem as if i was totally unchill. But I assure you that I was totally chill. I just didn’t know how to put italics on this flippin’ site so I put what I wanted in italics in all caps.
I admitted that I have no objective, evidence. I am not trying to prove anyone right or wrong. I only believe based upon what I personally have experienced. And I am not just talking about deep emotional stuff. I am talking about literal, physical, manifestations that baffled me. Can’t prove they actually happened. It is good enough for me, maybe not for anyone else. I don’t care whether you believe or not. You are all mostly good-hearted people so it doesn’t matter to me nor do I think that it would matter to any good hearted Deity.
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Re my post 470, wrong soles, I meant Souls sorry!!
I will go and stand in the corner!
G
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informative post. I hope you continue writing such interesting articles
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I don’t think we should focus on the differences that we have in beliefs. (You can all call me crazy and you can all not like me, but I can’t admit that I am crazy, and I can’t hate myself. Never again.)
The important thing is that, for the most part, the people who frequent this site are against Intelligent Design being taught in schools, which is a worthy thing and that the majority of us know that empirical data is much stronger than mere beliefs without experience.
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Well, it looks like we’ve got another “hanger-on” like Steve of God. At least we’re glad that pinataheart (#476) agrees with our central goal, which is to keep Intelligent Design from being taught in science classes in public schools.
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But we are at a loss, pinataheart, to see why you resist admitting that you are crazy. You have provided ample evidence of instability on this site. And we certainly don’t want you to hate yourself again. While we don’t understand you, we wish you well.
-
AR
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I can’t admit to myself that I am crazy because psychologically, whether I am nuts or not, I have to have the belief that I am not. It is evolutionary psychology really…
But from an objective point of view, if someone did not have my memories, then it is probably the reference to the best explanation to say that I am crazy or a liar about my experiences and I admit that.
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@ 476 – pinataheart -,
I’ve written to you earlier at post #460 where I suggested that you might want to clear your doubts and steady your beliefs. As I said there, our goal is the prohibition of religious dogma in public school science curricula.
Here I would like to talk to you as a teacher, and suggest a very specific way for you to begin your study, in the presence of philosophers who have faced the same doubts with which you seem to be grappling.
Baruch Spinoza was a Jew of Iberian ancestry living in Amsterdam in the 1600’s at the height of the Spanish Inquisition. He was well educated and was in contact with escapees from the inquisition, several of whom went crazy and ended their lives. His studies convinced him of the nonexistence of the Abramamic deity. He was banned from the Jewish community and wrote his philosophy in solitude, away from the community of other people; he was the first and most renowned Jewish atheist. My favorite exposition is ‘Spinoza and Other Heretics’ by Yirmiyahu Yovel.
Spinoza was the first of the philosophers who was exiled from all communities of faith, either by force or by temperament, and all later philosophers have built on his foundation. By studying Spinoza, you will be led to many other philosophers who have been troubled by the nonexistence of God. By seeing how others have come to grips with this problem, you will be led to your own solution.
I wish you the best of luck and good studies.
RAmen
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Though, and do not dislike me because of my honesty, I do not expect reading that to change my beliefs, I will read it. It does sound interesting and I am sure that it will be chocked full of wisdom: I find that atheist philosophers usually are.
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Dear Chuck,
I do not know of the G-d thing, but if he/she/it is too poor to afford the 250 dollars to buy a vowel, then he/she/it need not be taken seriously.
Thank you.
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I sort of feel bad for this guy. “but on the day of Judgement I will be glad I am one of the righteous, and not one of the misleaden.” said he, but how do you think he would feel when he finds out that he is misleaden. Luckily he will be dead so he won’t have to lament over the hours he wasted at church.
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The Fear of God – “God-fearing” is generally seen as a good trait for a Christian. The argument is that you need not fear anything in this Earthly domain, because the worst that can happen is death. It is much more appropriate to fear God, because He has control over what happens to you for all eternity. Which makes sense if you postulate that God exists, and is who He is. Which is the act of faith. There is a Bible verse that explains it.
I’m inclined to think this one is real. Nobody is perfect, and a few transpositional tyops are not that uncommon. This may be someone who is wont to mail people with argessive spam filters that reject the word “God” if they find it.
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I assume by G-d, he means Gundam.
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You know these christians have given me an idea… I’m going to go into curches and spread the righteous word of FSM in black spray paint. They spray they’re nonsense through our creator’s homepage, I should do the same.
R’Amen
-Logan, devout pastafarian
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It honestly makes me giggle that all of these people sending hate mail seriously have no clue what the open letter was about. I also find it comical that they all berate you for your religion and how ridiculous it is when their religion is little more than stolen or borrowed concepts from cultures that christians in the middle ages destroyed in the name of their god just because they decided one day that they were right and everyone else was wrong. I also find it very amusing that any ignorant christian who claims to have a brain can think that christianity’s imaginary father figure in the sky with his trap door to the steam room is any more or less plausable the the FSM. I was raised a catholic, but will from this point on be a loyal pastafarian and raise my daughter to be a tolerant, free thinking individual that can choose for herself.
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