Ok, here’s the thing

Published October 30th, 2009 by Bobby Henderson

This was sent in response to pastafarian responses from earlier hatemail/concerned criticism post.

Ok, here’s the thing. You set up a website with a place for responses. Your website takes a clearly mocking tone toward religion in general. You gather a bunch of members who agree with you and assert your scientific superiority. All that’s fine. Indeed, I’d say its even American. The thing that disturbs me is when people begin to question the RIGHT of people to “insult us, or. . . pray for us.”

That right is recorded somewhere in some dusty piece of paper – let me think . . . where could it be –
that has worked out well for us all for quite a while.

The thing that turns me off, though, and weakens your position most, is that most of you are just mean. I wouldn’t want just to hang out with you at a bar or anywhere else, because your arguments primarily seem to consist of making fun of people. Indeed, the Flying Spaghetti Monster is pretty much one big Ad Hominem argument. It adds nothing to a discussion of the validity of faith, because it is not about faith. (The person who writes that they “believe” in Atheism I’ll give a pass to on this comment.)

Even if Katie is condescending, your responses are more so. It is the lack of love that makes me question your entire premise. Indeed, your definition of hate is awfully broad. It sounds, how shall I put it, downright religious. Even if we live in a Foucaldian world in which our choices are driven by zeitgeist and social darwinism, I personally am going to choose to reject that. I will defiantly assert that even in that world, Faith is still relevant (and if you read his last interviews, I think Michel might agree).

Even if God were not true, I think I’ll still take Katie, who clearly has concern for you (even if you think it is misguided) over you guys who are interested in intellectually crushing her. Just because you have a right to speak doesn’t mean that Katie shouldn’t, and you certainly “have no right” to expect most people who respond to like you if you are going to beat on them.

Take a real philosophical position that can be debated and we’ll talk. Claiming that principles are “generally accepted” won’t do it, and don’t even begin to bring “peer review” in to support claims of truth, because “peer review”, even at its best, isn’t about truth – it’s about methodology and rhetoric.

Otherwise, quit wasting my time.

P.S. Has anyone here actually honestly asked God whether He exists? Just curious as to whether this is an intellectually honest forum or an ideologically rigid one.

-Jeremy



201 Responses to “Ok, here’s the thing”

  1. Akheloios says:

    First concern troll I’ve ever seen that mentions Foucault. Kudos.

  2. daniel says:

    How is this site, and its proponants, wasting your time if you choose to come to it?

  3. Mariner says:

    Has anyone here actually honestly asked God whether He exists?

    I called, nobody answered.

  4. Arash says:

    first of all i must say that i agree with you that Katie is using kind words BUT it seems that you are confusing it for kindness. she is not kind. if you don’t believe me just go back to her comment and this time read between the lines.
    first few sentences are a classic use of compliment sandwich; i won’t go through the “you are good” part because that’s just superficial.
    “I also hope that one day you might give God another chance. I don’t know what happened that caused you to turn from Him, or if you never did believe. But I sincerly hope that you will know Him.” she is assuming that we are emotionally scarred (something bad must have happened that turned us from god) and ultimately calling us lost and misguided.
    “When you die, do you know what will happen?” i have a good guess what’ll happen, but i think that Katie believes that we will burn in hell and she will sing in the sky with her harp.
    “I’m sorry if this comes across as just another ‘conversion’ speech.” just a repent sugar-coated.
    “Just please never give up hope in life.” she thinks we are depressed, suicidal and the like.
    no wonder why people didn’t like it, but i agree with you that she is using kind words that most people don’t. but it doesn’t make her kind, there is a huge difference.
    if you go to a muslim or hindu or christian and say the same things that she is saying (about another god of course), you’ll expect to see more than just condescending responses. so why do you think that followers of FSM must salute her? even though many of them have. May the sauce be with them!
    but of course she has the right to speak but we have that right too! don’t forget that; we are not going to christian sites and leave comments like these! even here in our church Bobby is not banning any comments even if they are hateful or polite insults like this one.
    this was all what i thought about Katie’s comment.
    and back to you Jeremy, well what do you want to debate about?! FSM? it’s a matter of belief! but we even have so many sighting and evidence about FSM, just have a look around this site or even in your personal daily life. you’ll see. there is no doubt that FSM is the true god, you just need to open your heart and never give up on hope! you’ll be touched!
    if you want to have a debate about atheism, that’s a totally different matter, so please clarify.
    and about not hanging out at a bar or anyplace else, i think actually you are missing a lot of fun. pastafarians are THE funniest people with a great sense of humour! just read the FSM gospel! i wish i knew more pastafarinas personally.
    And please don’t waste your time.
    Cheers mate
    PS when i was a kid i thought that god exists and asked him a couple of times for favours but it seemed that the universe never changes its course for just some silly prayers. i was maybe 10 at that time so i grew up.

  5. Apprentice Frederic says:

    Jeremy: Many of your points are well taken, and the generally temperate tone of your note is (like Katie’s) appreciated. However, when you find that dusty piece of paper you were looking for, you’ll see that it includes provisions, upheld in State and Federal courts, that keep theological dogma from being pushed as part of state-sponsored education. And that is the real cause of this website, I do believe. Second, if you’ll check out samples of “Hate Mail/Concerned Criticism, be sure you read “This is just…wow”, and maybe the Kansas School Board’s Ms. Martin. Third, I really don’t want to hang out with you, either, and you know what to do if your time is being wasted – you are the one wasting it. Finally, I HAVE asked God if He exists – for a number of reasons, including dead children: one of my own, and numberless others of friends and people whose offenses against God are things like being borne in the Sudan. Probably his silence is meant to tell me something.

  6. Trey says:

    well lets start this..finally new material!
    jeremy, your absolutely right, we’re all about mocking here, but the part you fail to grasp is that this is OUR website where people come to mock US. We are here conversing amongst ourselves talking about his Noodliness and Pirate Related subjects and you guys come to our site and bash us for simply having contrary views to yours. Your still thinking about this one sided, as most of you IDiot X-tains do, i dont see Pastafarians ruining your Sunday Sermons or threatening to assault other people simply because they believe in a higher power, i dont see Pastafarians using exessive ammounts of curse words or contradicting themselves as you “good christians” do.
    “That right is recorded somewhere in some dusty piece of paper – let me think . . . where could it be” your right, EVERYONE has rights, including you and me. I have the right to persue whatever religious beliefs I choose just like anyone else, and most of us are mean? i suggest you look over the website and read some of the emails our good prophet Bobby has posted from your “nice christian friends.” and how isnt this about faith? isnt that what religion is all about? religion has no truth, its all based on faith. It has no creditable sources or evidence. In all honesty i could care less if someone likes me or not, this isnt about that. this is about showing X-tains the error of their ways for me. I could care less what someone believes in, but if you believe something, then you better practice what you preach. i went to church for 18 years of my life and chose not go go, and because i dont care to get into the whole story, it was mainly because of the people and their hippocritical ways. i dont see how “god” can allow his “chosen people” to conduct themselves in this way and exist. and yes, i have on MANY occasions asked god if he exists, care to guess if i got a response?
    I hope you stick around long enough to actually respond to the posts that my fellow Pastafarians post here, maybe you will learn something.
    May the great Noodliness himself touch you with his appendage, and enlighten you with knowledge.
    RAmen!

  7. Gordon_UK says:

    Jeremy

    Fist things fist, Kate like the others in the ‘Hate Mail and concerned criticism’ section has gone out of their way to question our beliefs, I have never once gone on to another region’s website and left comments questing theirs. On the other hand if they come to me, knock on my door, approach in the street or leave comments on a website then they are fair game.

    As for a lack of love I take it you have not read most of the other posts, most of which seem to think that we should be killed for our beliefs, how many responses form us express the same desire?

    Debate? How can we debate with a group that hold up dogma and claim it as evidence? As to us taking philosophical approach to the discussion, I’m not sure how that fits with trying to find facts.

    As to wasting your time, may I remind you that you came to us and felt it necessary to criticise us when we respond unkindly to others who likewise criticise us. As to FSM’s contribution to the discussion, it’s massive, it highlights the fact that there is no more evidence for God then there is FSM.

    Also your basic understanding of Atheism is wrong, we don’t believe in Atheism we are Atheist. Remember that we are all born Atheist by default, it’s social brainwashing at a young age that changes this.

    P.S. I would of asked God but seems he forgot to leave a forwarding address or contact number. Have you asked him? I would interested to hear how that conversation went.

    Gordon
    RAmen

  8. moby says:

    “Has anyone here actually honestly asked God whether He exists?”
    Yes, many times. He’s answered me less often than the FSM has.

    I’ve had a hard time letting go of the brainwashing from my childhood, so when I asked the Great Noodly One to help me understand the true path, I didn’t expect much of a response. However, He replied by giving me a minor touch of good luck at the poker tables in Vegas, and He gave me the idea to use my small profit to buy supplies to start making my own beer in His honor.

    That was two years ago, and I have felt so much less angst and bewilderment than ever before in my life. Thank you, Flying Spaghetti Monster. And thank you, Pastafarian Community.

    -moby

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