Comments on: Ok, here’s the thing http://www.venganza.org/2009/10/30/ok-heres-the-thing/ Thu, 11 Mar 2010 09:39:04 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Meisha http://www.venganza.org/2009/10/30/ok-heres-the-thing/#comment-930335 Meisha Fri, 05 Mar 2010 00:44:47 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/?p=2573#comment-930335 Dear Jeremy: Atheist. Look that up in a dictionary. It means "one who denies existence of a deity". There is no "belief" in atheism. One does not "believe" there is no deity, one knows by concrete proof and clear scientific proof that a deity has a high probability of not existing. It's not that you can't think outside the box, it's the annoying fact that you ARE the box. Nothing else can exist in your mind but "belief" and that must apply to atheists too. I'm sorry to inform you that the real world beyond your tiny one is expansive and intelligent. It teems with new ideas and good working theories. It seeks answers to the questions you think are answered by what someone told you to believe, what a book says you "should" believe, and by ego-stroking, self-appointed, "godly" individuals that want your money to line their pockets. Belief and organized religions only really serve these individuals. You are paying them to tell you what you want to hear. You have created the box that you are by propping up a useless "belief" that keeps you going from day to day. It has never occurred to you that one can live without "belief". So, Jeremy, may I suggest that you leave us alone and we will gladly leave you alone with your "beliefs" so you may continue to be a box that is empty of all individual thought, individual seeking, and coming to real realizations that not everyone is going to agree with you. Until that thought comes you are going to continue to view all the posts here as negative. You will never see that beyond your tiny religion are people who want to be free from dogma, religious rhetoric, and live productive lives in the absence of "belief". It's not that I "believe" there is no god or deities. I KNOW there isn't. Most Respectfully, Meisha Dear Jeremy:

Atheist. Look that up in a dictionary. It means “one who denies existence of a deity”. There is no “belief” in atheism. One does not “believe” there is no deity, one knows by concrete proof and clear scientific proof that a deity has a high probability of not existing. It’s not that you can’t think outside the box, it’s the annoying fact that you ARE the box. Nothing else can exist in your mind but “belief” and that must apply to atheists too.

I’m sorry to inform you that the real world beyond your tiny one is expansive and intelligent. It teems with new ideas and good working theories. It seeks answers to the questions you think are answered by what someone told you to believe, what a book says you “should” believe, and by ego-stroking, self-appointed, “godly” individuals that want your money to line their pockets. Belief and organized religions only really serve these individuals. You are paying them to tell you what you want to hear. You have created the box that you are by propping up a useless “belief” that keeps you going from day to day. It has never occurred to you that one can live without “belief”.

So, Jeremy, may I suggest that you leave us alone and we will gladly leave you alone with your “beliefs” so you may continue to be a box that is empty of all individual thought, individual seeking, and coming to real realizations that not everyone is going to agree with you. Until that thought comes you are going to continue to view all the posts here as negative. You will never see that beyond your tiny religion are people who want to be free from dogma, religious rhetoric, and live productive lives in the absence of “belief”.

It’s not that I “believe” there is no god or deities. I KNOW there isn’t.

Most Respectfully,

Meisha

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]]> By: Drained and Washed Clean http://www.venganza.org/2009/10/30/ok-heres-the-thing/#comment-930332 Drained and Washed Clean Fri, 05 Mar 2010 00:26:29 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/?p=2573#comment-930332 Devotchka, Your story sounds like mine! And the bovine followers... That was great. It is ironic that those who are led by their noses down the path of religion accuse those of us that don't come down that path (or did go down and turn around) of being gullible and unlearned when they don't even really know who wrote the bible, and yet swear it to be the ultimate truth. Yup, that sounds like a good idea. Devotchka,

Your story sounds like mine! And the bovine followers… That was great. It is ironic that those who are led by their noses down the path of religion accuse those of us that don’t come down that path (or did go down and turn around) of being gullible and unlearned when they don’t even really know who wrote the bible, and yet swear it to be the ultimate truth. Yup, that sounds like a good idea.

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]]> By: plumberbob http://www.venganza.org/2009/10/30/ok-heres-the-thing/#comment-929196 plumberbob Sun, 28 Feb 2010 08:44:30 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/?p=2573#comment-929196 Jeremy, I've written to you previously on this thread, but now I'll just send you a copy of a letter that I've tried to thoughtfully compose to another writer on another thread who seems much more serious about her theological questions. I hope to not insult her by proposing the same study task to you. When you are ready to discuss this with me, I'll be here: Here I would like to talk to you as a teacher, and suggest a very specific way for you to begin your study, in the presence of philosophers who have faced the same doubts with which you seem to be grappling. Baruch Spinoza was a Jew of Iberian ancestry living in Amsterdam in the 1600’s at the height of the Spanish Inquisition. He was well educated and was in contact with escapees from the inquisition, several of whom went crazy and ended their lives. His studies convinced him of the nonexistence of the Abramamic deity. He was banned from the Jewish community and wrote his philosophy in solitude, away from the community of other people; he was the first and most renowned Jewish atheist. My favorite exposition is ‘Spinoza and Other Heretics’ by Yirmiyahu Yovel. Spinoza was the first of the philosophers who was exiled from all communities of faith, either by force or by temperament, and all later philosophers have built on his foundation. By studying Spinoza, you will be led to many other philosophers who have been troubled by the nonexistence of God. By seeing how others have come to grips with this problem, you will be led to your own solution. RAmen Jeremy,

I’ve written to you previously on this thread, but now I’ll just send you a copy of a letter that I’ve tried to thoughtfully compose to another writer on another thread who seems much more serious about her theological questions. I hope to not insult her by proposing the same study task to you. When you are ready to discuss this with me, I’ll be here:

Here I would like to talk to you as a teacher, and suggest a very specific way for you to begin your study, in the presence of philosophers who have faced the same doubts with which you seem to be grappling.

Baruch Spinoza was a Jew of Iberian ancestry living in Amsterdam in the 1600’s at the height of the Spanish Inquisition. He was well educated and was in contact with escapees from the inquisition, several of whom went crazy and ended their lives. His studies convinced him of the nonexistence of the Abramamic deity. He was banned from the Jewish community and wrote his philosophy in solitude, away from the community of other people; he was the first and most renowned Jewish atheist. My favorite exposition is ‘Spinoza and Other Heretics’ by Yirmiyahu Yovel.

Spinoza was the first of the philosophers who was exiled from all communities of faith, either by force or by temperament, and all later philosophers have built on his foundation. By studying Spinoza, you will be led to many other philosophers who have been troubled by the nonexistence of God. By seeing how others have come to grips with this problem, you will be led to your own solution.

RAmen

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]]> By: theFewtheProudtheMarinara http://www.venganza.org/2009/10/30/ok-heres-the-thing/#comment-928980 theFewtheProudtheMarinara Sat, 27 Feb 2010 12:31:19 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/?p=2573#comment-928980 Like Devotchka, I had to reason my way to atheism. It's the religious who disdain thought. When they run into a question they can't handle, they pull out the "God = magic" card, and think they've answered everything, when actually they've posed a bigger riddle. Of perhaps they're afraid to think too deeply. After all, Saint Augustine, in trying to disuade scientific study, warned of "the disease of curiosity". Like Devotchka, I had to reason my way to atheism. It’s the religious who disdain thought. When they run into a question they can’t handle, they pull out the “God = magic” card, and think they’ve answered everything, when actually they’ve posed a bigger riddle. Of perhaps they’re afraid to think too deeply. After all, Saint Augustine, in trying to disuade scientific study, warned of “the disease of curiosity”.

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]]> By: Devotchka http://www.venganza.org/2009/10/30/ok-heres-the-thing/#comment-928932 Devotchka Sat, 27 Feb 2010 08:38:45 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/?p=2573#comment-928932 Dear Jeremy, I find it quite insulting that you assume the people who frequent this website haven't though about the question of whether god exists, like we're just bovine followers of a trend. Or, perhaps you think that we may think we have thought about the question, but we haven't ACTUALLY, REALLY thought about it deeply....like Atheism is just an intellectual holiday where your brain rests, considering what sort of biscuit to dunk in your tea. Let me tell you something; for my mind this is the most interesting question of all and I have thought about it. A lot. And after all my reading and thinking I decided that god does not exist. I can list many reasons why I think this - it's not just a 'feeling'. I'm open to believing in god if some new argument or evidence comes to light. You have come to a different conclusion. That's fine, and you can pray for me all you want, just don't assume that I form my opinions glibly and without debate. My eyes are wide open. I think I am, therefore I might be. Dear Jeremy,

I find it quite insulting that you assume the people who frequent this website haven’t though about the question of whether god exists, like we’re just bovine followers of a trend. Or, perhaps you think that we may think we have thought about the question, but we haven’t ACTUALLY, REALLY thought about it deeply….like Atheism is just an intellectual holiday where your brain rests, considering what sort of biscuit to dunk in your tea.

Let me tell you something; for my mind this is the most interesting question of all and I have thought about it. A lot. And after all my reading and thinking I decided that god does not exist. I can list many reasons why I think this – it’s not just a ‘feeling’. I’m open to believing in god if some new argument or evidence comes to light.

You have come to a different conclusion. That’s fine, and you can pray for me all you want, just don’t assume that I form my opinions glibly and without debate. My eyes are wide open.

I think I am, therefore I might be.

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]]> By: Michael http://www.venganza.org/2009/10/30/ok-heres-the-thing/#comment-926630 Michael Sat, 20 Feb 2010 19:45:31 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/?p=2573#comment-926630 Please tell Jeremy for me that I did, in fact, ask god if he exists, but he never answered me. Now, I'm sure he's busy and all, with an entire universe to deal with on an infinitesimal basis, even if that universe only consists of one planet in a shell with holes in it orbited by a big ball of fire, but please. That's just rude. Hey god: hire a secretary, dude! Please tell Jeremy for me that I did, in fact, ask god if he exists, but he never answered me. Now, I’m sure he’s busy and all, with an entire universe to deal with on an infinitesimal basis, even if that universe only consists of one planet in a shell with holes in it orbited by a big ball of fire, but please. That’s just rude.

Hey god: hire a secretary, dude!

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]]> By: Michael http://www.venganza.org/2009/10/30/ok-heres-the-thing/#comment-924322 Michael Sun, 14 Feb 2010 10:27:26 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/?p=2573#comment-924322 I had been asking God whether he exists. Then I've realized that eventually hearing an Answer could be caused by many possibilities, only one of them being actually God speaking to or any other way interacting with me. For example, reasons could be extreme stress plus my (not so rich, but definitely sufficient for that) imagination, neighbors smoking weed, or simply continuous autohypnosis, etc. Note that here I am not stating neither existence nor absence of Dark energy, White hole, Higgs boson, Pink gas chainsaw or Albus Dumbledorre, leaving these questions to more capable hands. I had been asking God whether he exists. Then I’ve realized that eventually hearing an Answer could be caused by many possibilities, only one of them being actually God speaking to or any other way interacting with me. For example, reasons could be extreme stress plus my (not so rich, but definitely sufficient for that) imagination, neighbors smoking weed, or simply continuous autohypnosis, etc.

Note that here I am not stating neither existence nor absence of Dark energy, White hole, Higgs boson, Pink gas chainsaw or Albus Dumbledorre, leaving these questions to more capable hands.

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]]> By: Lola Flores http://www.venganza.org/2009/10/30/ok-heres-the-thing/#comment-923990 Lola Flores Fri, 12 Feb 2010 16:10:44 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/?p=2573#comment-923990 I did honestly ask god if he/she existed but guess what? Nottin' happened!

I did honestly ask god if he/she existed but guess what? Nottin’ happened!

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]]> By: Not so hairless Ape http://www.venganza.org/2009/10/30/ok-heres-the-thing/#comment-923861 Not so hairless Ape Fri, 12 Feb 2010 02:32:41 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/?p=2573#comment-923861 @ Alice Albus Dumbledorre IS REAL! He's dead but he's real. @ Alice

Albus Dumbledorre IS REAL! He’s dead but he’s real.

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]]> By: pinataheart http://www.venganza.org/2009/10/30/ok-heres-the-thing/#comment-923807 pinataheart Thu, 11 Feb 2010 20:59:01 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/?p=2573#comment-923807 I actually don't mind if people say they are praying for me. As a matter of fact, if they do so out of true intentions I actually just take it as a kind of affection like a hug or something. I mean if they do something towards you out of love then that is still an act of love and I love all acts of love even if I don't really believe that prayer is anything other than another form of self-hypnosis. But there are also the times that, I think the Christians themselves coined this term, "vanity" the doing of something out of selfish pride, is all that they are doing by saying that they will pray for you. I actually don’t mind if people say they are praying for me. As a matter of fact, if they do so out of true intentions I actually just take it as a kind of affection like a hug or something. I mean if they do something towards you out of love then that is still an act of love and I love all acts of love even if I don’t really believe that prayer is anything other than another form of self-hypnosis.
But there are also the times that, I think the Christians themselves coined this term, “vanity” the doing of something out of selfish pride, is all that they are doing by saying that they will pray for you.

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]]> By: Albus Dumbledore http://www.venganza.org/2009/10/30/ok-heres-the-thing/#comment-923805 Albus Dumbledore Thu, 11 Feb 2010 20:51:43 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/?p=2573#comment-923805 @Alice Fitzpatrick post number 120: Yes. Indeed I do exist. But I have never seen that God fellow. He is either non-existential or a non-social jerk. @Alice Fitzpatrick post number 120:
Yes. Indeed I do exist. But I have never seen that God fellow. He is either non-existential or a non-social jerk.

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]]> By: Alice Fitzpatrick - Yorkshire, UK http://www.venganza.org/2009/10/30/ok-heres-the-thing/#comment-923747 Alice Fitzpatrick - Yorkshire, UK Thu, 11 Feb 2010 14:23:34 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/?p=2573#comment-923747 all i ever say when people say there going to pray for me is, ok, you do that if it makes you feel better. frankly, i dont want to be prayed for, and the thought that someone is doing it disturbs me because it's an expression of their misguided ideas. and, why would i ever ask god if he exists? i believe through my own common sense that god doesn't exist, so why would i ask someone who doesnt exist if he exists? it's like looking up to the sky and saying, "Albus Dumbledore, do you exist?" all i ever say when people say there going to pray for me is, ok, you do that if it makes you feel better. frankly, i dont want to be prayed for, and the thought that someone is doing it disturbs me because it’s an expression of their misguided ideas.

and, why would i ever ask god if he exists? i believe through my own common sense that god doesn’t exist, so why would i ask someone who doesnt exist if he exists? it’s like looking up to the sky and saying, “Albus Dumbledore, do you exist?”

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]]> By: cheryl ensom http://www.venganza.org/2009/10/30/ok-heres-the-thing/#comment-917529 cheryl ensom Wed, 27 Jan 2010 14:39:11 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/?p=2573#comment-917529 Don't worry, bobby! We'd hang out with you at a bar!!! Of course we'd have to start by saying a prayer to the spaghetti monster to thank him/her for the peanuts. But then we could have some wonderfully uplifting conversation. Don’t worry, bobby! We’d hang out with you at a bar!!! Of course we’d have to start by saying a prayer to the spaghetti monster to thank him/her for the peanuts. But then we could have some wonderfully uplifting conversation.

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]]> By: CrudOMatic http://www.venganza.org/2009/10/30/ok-heres-the-thing/#comment-917083 CrudOMatic Tue, 26 Jan 2010 07:05:43 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/?p=2573#comment-917083 """P.S. Has anyone here actually honestly asked God whether He exists? Just curious as to whether this is an intellectually honest forum or an ideologically rigid one.""" When someone doesn't answer the phone, it is hard to tell if they exist or not. The number exists, but noone ever answers. Prayer is fake. Just more ritual and posturing. “”"P.S. Has anyone here actually honestly asked God whether He exists? Just curious as to whether this is an intellectually honest forum or an ideologically rigid one.”"”

When someone doesn’t answer the phone, it is hard to tell if they exist or not. The number exists, but noone ever answers.

Prayer is fake. Just more ritual and posturing.

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]]> By: Flora http://www.venganza.org/2009/10/30/ok-heres-the-thing/#comment-913360 Flora Wed, 13 Jan 2010 17:19:36 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/?p=2573#comment-913360 Awww, you know, I was actually being sympathetic there. Really. I was right with you thinking: do we go too far? Are we too mean? ... .. Right up until that PS, and then I just fell off my chair laughing. I'm sorry, really I am. Awww, you know, I was actually being sympathetic there. Really. I was right with you thinking: do we go too far? Are we too mean?
…
..
Right up until that PS, and then I just fell off my chair laughing.
I’m sorry, really I am.

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]]> By: Fishstix http://www.venganza.org/2009/10/30/ok-heres-the-thing/#comment-912960 Fishstix Mon, 11 Jan 2010 14:56:43 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/?p=2573#comment-912960 "When a person can no longer laugh at himself, it is time for others to laugh at him." - Thomas Szasz That's why Jeremy. RAmen

“When a person can no longer laugh at himself, it is time for others to laugh at him.” – Thomas Szasz
That’s why Jeremy.

RAmen

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]]> By: plumberbob http://www.venganza.org/2009/10/30/ok-heres-the-thing/#comment-909380 plumberbob Sat, 26 Dec 2009 23:11:46 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/?p=2573#comment-909380 @ 78 - Mohammed Falafil -, Proof of deity's existance? Please? Even if it's only 10% of the proof that all of the other godbots offer to us in answer to the same question to them, show it to us. BTW holy books are "faith"; they are not proof As believers feel free to make claims about the way the universe works, then they should be challenged on it.  That’s what happens when you make truth claims.  That your claims are hard to back up is unfortunate. You’re free to believe that the moon is made out of green cheese, but being free to believe that, doesn’t require that other people coddle that delusion. The attached talk by Dr Andy Thomson tells us how our needs as helpless infants uses the same parts of the brain as our thoughts about the mythology of religion: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iMmvu9eMrg The fears and terrors of the unknown are powerful drivers in our need for superstition. This is our website, and we are fully justified in defending our cause. It is the exclusion of religious mythology from public school science curricula. Our theology is a satire that depends on and demeans no other faith or religion. You have obviously not read and understood both the Open Letter and the “About” tab material as you were directed when you entered this site. RAmen @ 78 – Mohammed Falafil -,

Proof of deity’s existance? Please?

Even if it’s only 10% of the proof that all of the other godbots offer to us in answer to the same question to them, show it to us. BTW holy books are “faith”; they are not proof

As believers feel free to make claims about the way the universe works, then they should be challenged on it.  That’s what happens when you make truth claims.  That your claims are hard to back up is unfortunate. You’re free to believe that the moon is made out of green cheese, but being free to believe that, doesn’t require that other people coddle that delusion.

The attached talk by Dr Andy Thomson tells us how our needs as helpless infants uses the same parts of the brain as our thoughts about the mythology of religion:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iMmvu9eMrg

The fears and terrors of the unknown are powerful drivers in our need for superstition.

This is our website, and we are fully justified in defending our cause. It is the exclusion of religious mythology from public school science curricula. Our theology is a satire that depends on and
demeans no other faith or religion. You have obviously not read and understood both the Open Letter and the “About” tab material as you were directed when you entered this site.

RAmen

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]]> By: theFewtheProudtheMarinara http://www.venganza.org/2009/10/30/ok-heres-the-thing/#comment-909308 theFewtheProudtheMarinara Sat, 26 Dec 2009 14:06:00 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/?p=2573#comment-909308 vantutle (#108): The reason religious people (that is not a compliment, by the way) come here is NOT for argument's sake - that only gets them mad. It's for affirmation. It's to hear other people spout their lunacy so they can feel better about themselves. Kind of like how 97% of the "pundits" on Fox "News" are conservatives. They don't want debate. They want to brainwash the listeners into thinking theirs is the ONLY way.

vantutle (#108): The reason religious people (that is not a compliment, by the way) come here is NOT for argument’s sake – that only gets them mad. It’s for affirmation. It’s to hear other people spout their lunacy so they can feel better about themselves. Kind of like how 97% of the “pundits” on Fox “News” are conservatives. They don’t want debate. They want to brainwash the listeners into thinking theirs is the ONLY way.

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]]> By: WinniePony http://www.venganza.org/2009/10/30/ok-heres-the-thing/#comment-908884 WinniePony Fri, 25 Dec 2009 05:49:49 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/?p=2573#comment-908884 Dude, you're taking this way too seriously. The point of FSM, at least as far as I understand it, is not to create a serious religion. The point is to highlight how ridiculous it is to teach religion in schools under the guise of science. FSM exaggerates the flaws of creationism to the point where they become comedy, thus attacking the pseudo-science some schools are accepting. So if religion is so easy to make fun of, maybe it should find some better arguments. FSM validation is based on the same concepts as traditional religion, just with a humorous, carb-filled twist.

Dude, you’re taking this way too seriously. The point of FSM, at least as far as I understand it, is not to create a serious religion. The point is to highlight how ridiculous it is to teach religion in schools under the guise of science. FSM exaggerates the flaws of creationism to the point where they become comedy, thus attacking the pseudo-science some schools are accepting. So if religion is so easy to make fun of, maybe it should find some better arguments. FSM validation is based on the same concepts as traditional religion, just with a humorous, carb-filled twist.

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]]> By: Blessed by the Holy Spaghetti http://www.venganza.org/2009/10/30/ok-heres-the-thing/#comment-908629 Blessed by the Holy Spaghetti Thu, 24 Dec 2009 18:59:41 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/?p=2573#comment-908629 I notice how these folks often accuse opponents of Ad-Hominem attacks, though it can be doubtful they know the definition of the fallacy at all. More like a way to make people lose their composure.

I notice how these folks often accuse opponents of Ad-Hominem attacks, though it can be doubtful they know the definition of the fallacy at all. More like a way to make people lose their composure.

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