This was sent in response to pastafarian responses from earlier hatemail/concerned criticism post.
Ok, here’s the thing. You set up a website with a place for responses. Your website takes a clearly mocking tone toward religion in general. You gather a bunch of members who agree with you and assert your scientific superiority. All that’s fine. Indeed, I’d say its even American. The thing that disturbs me is when people begin to question the RIGHT of people to “insult us, or. . . pray for us.”
That right is recorded somewhere in some dusty piece of paper – let me think . . . where could it be –
that has worked out well for us all for quite a while.The thing that turns me off, though, and weakens your position most, is that most of you are just mean. I wouldn’t want just to hang out with you at a bar or anywhere else, because your arguments primarily seem to consist of making fun of people. Indeed, the Flying Spaghetti Monster is pretty much one big Ad Hominem argument. It adds nothing to a discussion of the validity of faith, because it is not about faith. (The person who writes that they “believe” in Atheism I’ll give a pass to on this comment.)
Even if Katie is condescending, your responses are more so. It is the lack of love that makes me question your entire premise. Indeed, your definition of hate is awfully broad. It sounds, how shall I put it, downright religious. Even if we live in a Foucaldian world in which our choices are driven by zeitgeist and social darwinism, I personally am going to choose to reject that. I will defiantly assert that even in that world, Faith is still relevant (and if you read his last interviews, I think Michel might agree).
Even if God were not true, I think I’ll still take Katie, who clearly has concern for you (even if you think it is misguided) over you guys who are interested in intellectually crushing her. Just because you have a right to speak doesn’t mean that Katie shouldn’t, and you certainly “have no right” to expect most people who respond to like you if you are going to beat on them.
Take a real philosophical position that can be debated and we’ll talk. Claiming that principles are “generally accepted” won’t do it, and don’t even begin to bring “peer review” in to support claims of truth, because “peer review”, even at its best, isn’t about truth – it’s about methodology and rhetoric.
Otherwise, quit wasting my time.
P.S. Has anyone here actually honestly asked God whether He exists? Just curious as to whether this is an intellectually honest forum or an ideologically rigid one.
-Jeremy
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Yes, Jeremy, I do agree with you to a point. Some of those on this site are intolerent to those of faith, which is, frankly, a shitty thing to do. But isn’t being intolerent to those of seperate faith than you, or no faith, just as shitty? The reason we, or at least I, logically crush those who send hate-mail here is to simply crush their attacks against us. I will not attack those of faith unless they attack me, in which case I will crush them into powder.
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Trust the dust bunnies. At least you can see them, touch them and sneeze on them. The only god I ever heard of who makes you sneeze is Zeus.
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I agree, there are way too many angry highschool athiests championing The Church Of The Flying Spaghetti Monster. This isn’t about sticking it to Christians, it’s about preserving the integrity of our science classrooms.
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I think the writer is missing the point that there is no validity to faith.
they are all equally silly.
but FSM has the advantage of being inclusive, free and not sexually uptight.
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This one hurts. Because you know we all just love hanging out with blubbering theists.
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Sorry – can not agree with you there “st.pastabeard” #101…
The biggest threat to this world are the fundamental religious. If people don’t stand up to bloody stupid faith based systems the world is going to be in BIG trouble. There is no evidence of any kind for any faith based view-point (I know – that is why they are faith based). Blindly believing in complete and utter bollocks will bring the end of the world much faster than I would like thank you very much. So all you fairy story believers should wise up and get some education as to the real physical world – not your bloody stupid, dangerous, mad, man-made, desperate, sad, stupid religious clap-trap!
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Isnt it amusing how though he clearly has a no understanding of Fallacies of logic due to his Ad Hominem statement. And then to make his whole thing a joke he ends it in another fallacie (loaded question).
Praise be to his grand noodlyness!
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First of all: Thank you everyone who participated in making this a fun and time killling website! I have spent but 10 minutes scanning the pages yet I feel as though I have already been touched by his holy appendages, as well as all the arguments that suround it.
Secondly, if you are a thiest, why even visit another religions webpage? Are looking for an argument? Even if you don’t believe in another persons point of view you shouldn’t necisarily send them an angry email. On the other hand, It seems to me that all though it is just a joke, this website’s purpose is to pose an argument against teaching religious topics in public schools. I completely agree with this, but this is no reason to post all critisisim of an adimited joke idea under “HateMail”. I thank all of you who read this for your time, and hope this comment does not get shot down with “thumbs down”.
Sincerly,
An Agnostic
p.s I LOVE it how some of you say “R’amen” at the end of your posts :P
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Yes. I did ask him. I was about 7. The next year I accepted God into my heart. And then a miraculous and amazing thing happened. I started thinking for myself. By the time I was 9, I didn’t believe in the Christian church anymore. I turned Agnostic, I didn’t know it at the time, but I was. About the time that I turned 13, I started studying science. The answers it gave were far more to the point, and logically sound than the Church I was no longer a member of. I am now an Atheist. Not all of us were lucky enough to grow up in an Atheist household. But some of us who didn’t were able to grow up and think logically for ourselves.
Sincerely,
Garrick McElroy
P.S. If you asked God if he was real, and he responded, you should go see a professional.
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I like Jeremy. He makes some great points.
But I’ve been touched by his holy appendage and there is no turning back.
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Taking a que from the giant lesbian (HER eminence) Paula Poundstone – “I belong to an atheist ‘church’, where we have people come forward and ‘testify’ that they were crippled…….and still are.” Hard to argue with that one, no? But still, Ah (southern inflection) belieeeeeeeeve!
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I notice how these folks often accuse opponents of Ad-Hominem attacks, though it can be doubtful they know the definition of the fallacy at all. More like a way to make people lose their composure.
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Dude, you’re taking this way too seriously. The point of FSM, at least as far as I understand it, is not to create a serious religion. The point is to highlight how ridiculous it is to teach religion in schools under the guise of science. FSM exaggerates the flaws of creationism to the point where they become comedy, thus attacking the pseudo-science some schools are accepting. So if religion is so easy to make fun of, maybe it should find some better arguments. FSM validation is based on the same concepts as traditional religion, just with a humorous, carb-filled twist.
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vantutle (#108): The reason religious people (that is not a compliment, by the way) come here is NOT for argument’s sake – that only gets them mad. It’s for affirmation. It’s to hear other people spout their lunacy so they can feel better about themselves. Kind of like how 97% of the “pundits” on Fox “News” are conservatives. They don’t want debate. They want to brainwash the listeners into thinking theirs is the ONLY way.
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@ 78 – Mohammed Falafil -,
Proof of deity’s existance? Please?
Even if it’s only 10% of the proof that all of the other godbots offer to us in answer to the same question to them, show it to us. BTW holy books are “faith”; they are not proof
As believers feel free to make claims about the way the universe works, then they should be challenged on it. That’s what happens when you make truth claims. That your claims are hard to back up is unfortunate. You’re free to believe that the moon is made out of green cheese, but being free to believe that, doesn’t require that other people coddle that delusion.
The attached talk by Dr Andy Thomson tells us how our needs as helpless infants uses the same parts of the brain as our thoughts about the mythology of religion:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iMmvu9eMrg
The fears and terrors of the unknown are powerful drivers in our need for superstition.
This is our website, and we are fully justified in defending our cause. It is the exclusion of religious mythology from public school science curricula. Our theology is a satire that depends on and
demeans no other faith or religion. You have obviously not read and understood both the Open Letter and the “About” tab material as you were directed when you entered this site.
RAmen
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“When a person can no longer laugh at himself, it is time for others to laugh at him.” – Thomas Szasz
That’s why Jeremy.
RAmen
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Awww, you know, I was actually being sympathetic there. Really. I was right with you thinking: do we go too far? Are we too mean?
…
..
Right up until that PS, and then I just fell off my chair laughing.
I’m sorry, really I am.
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“”"P.S. Has anyone here actually honestly asked God whether He exists? Just curious as to whether this is an intellectually honest forum or an ideologically rigid one.”"”
When someone doesn’t answer the phone, it is hard to tell if they exist or not. The number exists, but noone ever answers.
Prayer is fake. Just more ritual and posturing.
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Don’t worry, bobby! We’d hang out with you at a bar!!! Of course we’d have to start by saying a prayer to the spaghetti monster to thank him/her for the peanuts. But then we could have some wonderfully uplifting conversation.
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all i ever say when people say there going to pray for me is, ok, you do that if it makes you feel better. frankly, i dont want to be prayed for, and the thought that someone is doing it disturbs me because it’s an expression of their misguided ideas.
and, why would i ever ask god if he exists? i believe through my own common sense that god doesn’t exist, so why would i ask someone who doesnt exist if he exists? it’s like looking up to the sky and saying, “Albus Dumbledore, do you exist?”
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@Alice Fitzpatrick post number 120:
Yes. Indeed I do exist. But I have never seen that God fellow. He is either non-existential or a non-social jerk.
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I actually don’t mind if people say they are praying for me. As a matter of fact, if they do so out of true intentions I actually just take it as a kind of affection like a hug or something. I mean if they do something towards you out of love then that is still an act of love and I love all acts of love even if I don’t really believe that prayer is anything other than another form of self-hypnosis.
But there are also the times that, I think the Christians themselves coined this term, “vanity” the doing of something out of selfish pride, is all that they are doing by saying that they will pray for you.
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@ Alice
Albus Dumbledorre IS REAL! He’s dead but he’s real.
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I did honestly ask god if he/she existed but guess what? Nottin’ happened!
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I had been asking God whether he exists. Then I’ve realized that eventually hearing an Answer could be caused by many possibilities, only one of them being actually God speaking to or any other way interacting with me. For example, reasons could be extreme stress plus my (not so rich, but definitely sufficient for that) imagination, neighbors smoking weed, or simply continuous autohypnosis, etc.
Note that here I am not stating neither existence nor absence of Dark energy, White hole, Higgs boson, Pink gas chainsaw or Albus Dumbledorre, leaving these questions to more capable hands.
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Please tell Jeremy for me that I did, in fact, ask god if he exists, but he never answered me. Now, I’m sure he’s busy and all, with an entire universe to deal with on an infinitesimal basis, even if that universe only consists of one planet in a shell with holes in it orbited by a big ball of fire, but please. That’s just rude.
Hey god: hire a secretary, dude!
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Dear Jeremy,
I find it quite insulting that you assume the people who frequent this website haven’t though about the question of whether god exists, like we’re just bovine followers of a trend. Or, perhaps you think that we may think we have thought about the question, but we haven’t ACTUALLY, REALLY thought about it deeply….like Atheism is just an intellectual holiday where your brain rests, considering what sort of biscuit to dunk in your tea.
Let me tell you something; for my mind this is the most interesting question of all and I have thought about it. A lot. And after all my reading and thinking I decided that god does not exist. I can list many reasons why I think this – it’s not just a ‘feeling’. I’m open to believing in god if some new argument or evidence comes to light.
You have come to a different conclusion. That’s fine, and you can pray for me all you want, just don’t assume that I form my opinions glibly and without debate. My eyes are wide open.
I think I am, therefore I might be.
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Like Devotchka, I had to reason my way to atheism. It’s the religious who disdain thought. When they run into a question they can’t handle, they pull out the “God = magic” card, and think they’ve answered everything, when actually they’ve posed a bigger riddle. Of perhaps they’re afraid to think too deeply. After all, Saint Augustine, in trying to disuade scientific study, warned of “the disease of curiosity”.
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Jeremy,
I’ve written to you previously on this thread, but now I’ll just send you a copy of a letter that I’ve tried to thoughtfully compose to another writer on another thread who seems much more serious about her theological questions. I hope to not insult her by proposing the same study task to you. When you are ready to discuss this with me, I’ll be here:
Here I would like to talk to you as a teacher, and suggest a very specific way for you to begin your study, in the presence of philosophers who have faced the same doubts with which you seem to be grappling.
Baruch Spinoza was a Jew of Iberian ancestry living in Amsterdam in the 1600’s at the height of the Spanish Inquisition. He was well educated and was in contact with escapees from the inquisition, several of whom went crazy and ended their lives. His studies convinced him of the nonexistence of the Abramamic deity. He was banned from the Jewish community and wrote his philosophy in solitude, away from the community of other people; he was the first and most renowned Jewish atheist. My favorite exposition is ‘Spinoza and Other Heretics’ by Yirmiyahu Yovel.
Spinoza was the first of the philosophers who was exiled from all communities of faith, either by force or by temperament, and all later philosophers have built on his foundation. By studying Spinoza, you will be led to many other philosophers who have been troubled by the nonexistence of God. By seeing how others have come to grips with this problem, you will be led to your own solution.
RAmen
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Devotchka,
Your story sounds like mine! And the bovine followers… That was great. It is ironic that those who are led by their noses down the path of religion accuse those of us that don’t come down that path (or did go down and turn around) of being gullible and unlearned when they don’t even really know who wrote the bible, and yet swear it to be the ultimate truth. Yup, that sounds like a good idea.
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Dear Jeremy:
Atheist. Look that up in a dictionary. It means “one who denies existence of a deity”. There is no “belief” in atheism. One does not “believe” there is no deity, one knows by concrete proof and clear scientific proof that a deity has a high probability of not existing. It’s not that you can’t think outside the box, it’s the annoying fact that you ARE the box. Nothing else can exist in your mind but “belief” and that must apply to atheists too.
I’m sorry to inform you that the real world beyond your tiny one is expansive and intelligent. It teems with new ideas and good working theories. It seeks answers to the questions you think are answered by what someone told you to believe, what a book says you “should” believe, and by ego-stroking, self-appointed, “godly” individuals that want your money to line their pockets. Belief and organized religions only really serve these individuals. You are paying them to tell you what you want to hear. You have created the box that you are by propping up a useless “belief” that keeps you going from day to day. It has never occurred to you that one can live without “belief”.
So, Jeremy, may I suggest that you leave us alone and we will gladly leave you alone with your “beliefs” so you may continue to be a box that is empty of all individual thought, individual seeking, and coming to real realizations that not everyone is going to agree with you. Until that thought comes you are going to continue to view all the posts here as negative. You will never see that beyond your tiny religion are people who want to be free from dogma, religious rhetoric, and live productive lives in the absence of “belief”.
It’s not that I “believe” there is no god or deities. I KNOW there isn’t.
Most Respectfully,
Meisha
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As much as I hate prosteletizing, I also hate it when athiests attack religious people for believing in their religion. As long as you’re not hurting other people, just let people believe or not believe what they want for goodness’ sake! Why waste your breath trying to convince someone? No one changes their mind about their beliefs or lack there-of because someone tells them to; if they do change their mind it is because they come to that conclusion themself based on their experiences, surroundings, and personality.
Personally, if someone offers to pray for me only because I’m not religious, that does feel a little insulting simply because it’s a lack of respect towards my own philosophy. But if that person is praying for me because I’m going through a tough time in my life, and they are praying for my situation to improve, then I usually appreciate it, because I feel like any positive energy counts, whether it directly causes a change or merely shows love. Of course, this is just my opinion. You may feel differently, whoever is reading this. =)
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Oops, I meant to post my previous comment on Katie’s post, not Jeremy’s. This is what I get for keeping too many tabs open on my browser, and trying to be all opinionated when I’m tired. Carry on all, my former response has nothing to do with your current debate.
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