Do you really think you’ll get your point across by creating a fake religion?
The reason why Mythology is taught in schools is to enrich our knowledge of cultures that existed way before your ancestors were born. There’s a similar reason as to why religion is taught, those who don’t believe in it, can just go along and learn the views that people had hundreds of years ago, again it enriches them by showing them why others believe.
I find that the church of The FSM is a big joke, no it wasn’t found such a long time ago, you dweebs, I can’t believe there were people who actually considered believing that. Did you, for one second, think that MAYBE just MAYBE your insulting a large group of people out there, that they will be deeply hurt because of your sick ingorance towards basic facts.
And what’s up with the website? Dude, do you not have a life? Shouldn’t you be studying if you’re in college, at least.
I”m not going to say that you’re in my prayers and that crap, because you aren’t, and all those people who said you were in their prayers lied to you, because they probably forgot all about it when they navigated from the page, that’s the type of impact you’re making on the world.
Well, what can I say, it IS your time to waste. Have fun, if it makes you happy.
~ Stela~
your movement is pointless
Published by Bobby Henderson July 7th, 2009 in Hate Mail (and concerned criticism). 186 Comments
186 Responses to “your movement is pointless”
Stela, I think whatever religion you belong to is hilarious. Did you not get the message? It’s satire – we are making fun of you.
The great spaghetti monster is as powerful as your god. Both do not exist. At least we have fun here – eating pasta and making up sauces to go with it – what do you have? Wisps of prayer and the sincerest hope that you are right? That you bet on the right god?
Samwise
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I’m a 55yr old Christian fundamentalist and I love the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Religion and other matters of faith have no place in the schools, except perhaps in the study of different cultures.The God I believe in doesn’t need some self-righteous jackass forcing his message into where it doesn’t need to be.
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@ JeremyKeys #69
“The rest of the religious world doesn’t even bother with us…” I hope you’re right!
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Christy scares me.
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Hey Christi#97,
Your god is a control freak condemning you to eternal damnation if you dare think for yourself. That is childish and pathetic. The Flying Spaghetti Monster is cool, he doesn’t really care what you think, as long as you follow the “I really rather you did not’s”.
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@ Christy #97 – I’m glas you’re a dutiful Christian and that you understand God and such but I don’t think you’ve really added much to the discussion…
@ Charles Simons #102 – it’s nice to hear from a christian Christian for a change! Welcome :-)
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Christy #97. Your medication needs to be reduced (or increased – not too sure now I think about it.) What was your ridiculous babbling about? Have you actually seen your god; have you truly felt his love; do you really understand god? Or are you a complete fruit-loop who believes any old crap you are told by people who wish to control you? Where is any evidence for your wonderful father figure conditional? (Sorry – that sentence didn’t make any sense ;-) “And although there are other Gods and Saints” – hang on; you admit there are other gods than yours. Wow. Is the FSM one of them? Very good to let no other gods come before the one true god, I mean you shouldn’t contradict his teachings – especially something you truly believe in.
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Stela, if you’re speaking of “basic facts” here’s one for you: organized religions all copy each other. Your religion, Christianity, came AFTER Catholicism and AFTER Judaism and AFTER Hinduism and many of the holidays you celebrate as a Christian are holidays from THOSE RELIGIONS. “Christmas” is celebrated on a PAGAN holiday…hmmmm….and Jesus’ (Yeshua to some) birth did not happen in December at all. It happened in July. I won’t bother trying to explain the astrological proof of this “basic fact” since your head is obviously too clouded by pious anger to use something as simple as proper spelling and grammar.
I have absolutely no problem with faith. What I have a problem with is organized religion. I find Pastafarianism stimulating because it’s making fun of organized religion which I enjoy doing in my every day life. This site just gives me more weapons to use against the evil church tyrants trying to assimilate me into their vile, zombie-worshipping cult. Furthermore, I would like to tell you to lighten up and get a bit more of a life yourself. If you have so much free time on your hands to write hate mail to this site you might be a hypocrite (you might need to get a dictionary and look that one up) telling US to get lives.
RAmen
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I am an old jaded pirate. It still amazes me that a religion that started as a cult so easily forgets its roots. Maybe they remember and are scared that the FSM is going to displace their religion just like the Roman relgions where pushed aside.
How old are the Evangelical and “Born Again” movements?
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@CHRISTY #97
Dan (#106) was too kind. You are an illiterate moron who lacks the ability to express simple thoughts in the English language. You are a poor representative of your religion, so I suggest you shut up. Don’t go away mad…just go away.
-
Charles Simon (#102), on the other hand, is a literate, reasonable person. He and I could have enjoyable discussions about how and why our paradigms differ.
-
ATSAP REVOL
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It is very strange how people can have such blind faith in something, yet very quickly blame others when they have blind faith in something else (or at least appear to). Psychiatrists would have a field day over that one.
It is a FACT the bible in all its various shapes and form is an edited, political document, which has only become divine because of its interpretation but the various Churches. I must also remind you that the churches link with the divine has long been suspect. There are many examples but I will cite only the burning of “Heretics” who believed the Earth orbited the sun. Which, of course was shown to be true.
Looking at Christianity from a Historical point of view, a lot of its traditions/beliefs actually stem from other religions (Ancient Greek, Roman, Pagan etc). Their incorporation was a political tool to ensure dominance over a very large empire.
Now, I personally am not religious, but I do believe in the message of the bible and many of Jesus’ teachings. What really saddens me is that many Christians fail to really heed Jesus’ message of love and peace and his attempt to distance mankind from the old testament. What Bobby has done is more in line with what Christ had in mind: Two Examples
1) Stop spreading hate and “Love thy Neighbour”. Reading many of these comments I fail to see how anyone can write what they did and still say they believe in Jesus’ words.
2) “Render unto the Lord the Lord’s and unto Rome, Rome’s” i.e. a clear need for separation of church and state. Otherwise man would never be free as his very beliefs would be controlled by the state, as what was happening throughout the Roman Empire, (and Judea) at the time. He was sending out a warning.
Now I do not live in America, but I cannot understand how Christians can accept this blatant attempt by the government, regional/local or federal to control your beliefs. I do live in a country that is mostly Catholic and forces Catholic indoctrination in its state schools. I just wish I had the courage to do what Bobby has done and reminded Christians what it is to be Christian, and to fight against ANY organisation that is trying control your beliefs. This is our only true freedom.
There may be doubt over the divinity of the Bible (and Church), but there is no doubt (or should be none) that it (the new testament) is a good set of guidelines (if you will) on how to live in a society. This I feel is a fact lost on BOTH sides of the argument. I cannot see how people call themselves Christians and yet behave in an old testament manner, or those that seek to destroy the Bible’s teachings purely because of its debatable divinity. I find it ironic that the bible(NT) sits in the middle of Religion and Atheism in the same way that Jesus sat in the middle between Religion (Judaism/OT) and Rome. In the end, of course Rome and Judea both conspired to kill Jesus. I truly Hope that this does not happen with the Bible(NT); both sides can learn so much from it.
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It’s sad to see people getting angry at each other over matters of God or god or FSM. The only people who will find God are those who seek him. Things of a spiritual nature are nonsense to those that are not looking for them. I think it’s nice if you do seek God but if you choose not to at this time it really is nobody’s business but your own. For anyone to try to force God’s message on someone that was not actively wanting to hear it demeans and degrades God and the message
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@#102
Awesome! Finally a Christian who has some sense.
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#111 – togoso. I agree there is no doubt over the divinity of the bible: It is not divine!
You believe in the message of the bible: what message is that? I would be interested to hear what you (or anyone else for that matter) think the bible message actually is.
As to the new testament being a good set of guidelines – I don’t think so. The whole story of jesus was to save the jews (chosen-people); the gentiles only came later as an after-thought (probably when the christian splinter group were having trouble recruiting). Jesus could have prevented so much pain and suffering in the years to come if he been a bit more specific in his rules: do not kill; do not abuse; do not enslave; treat women as equals; do not steal; do not cheat (not the ten (fifteen, twenty?) commandments which were only applied – once again – to dealings within the jewish peoples; massacring, raping and robbing rival tribes men, women and children was fine) – but he didn’t. As god he could have eradicated malaria, leprosy, cancer and countless other painful and lethal diseases and afflictions – but he didn’t. If he died for our sins (not sure what for though: fictional characters listening to a talking snake and eating magical fruit?) then we all forgiven; we no longer have to suffer – but he didn’t and we do. And, in this loving message of hope, if you don’t believe in jesus, his daddy, god and the rest of the tri-be then you can go to hell. Truly a “message of love and peace”. Free Will(y) is a better story (and is more principled.)
People are very blinkered to the actual words of the man-made dribble (sorry, bibble). I find it a horrible, savage, hate-filled propaganda vehicle for a bunch of crazies who are hell bent on taking over the world (that would include jews, muslims and christians).
Also, you go on about jesus as if he was a factual character – do you have any proof?
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Well said, able semen, post #114. Couldn’t have said it better myself.
RAmen!
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@#111
Jesus probably did exist. However most of the bible either stole existing mythology or can be proven wrong historically. So its obviously not reliable.
Some parts of the bible such as the virgin birth are now thought (not sure how strong the evidence is) to be mistranslation errors.
The entire biblical story, however it originally was, was rewritten to fulfill jewish proficies, and the concept of jesus preaching peace was added much later. When jesus said “love thy neighbour” he meant “love another jew”. So everything you claim is wrong.
The bible, even if we ignoor the constant changes and assume the now version is the only version, and ignore the many other books of the bible which conflict with other books both in recorded histories and moral messages, then the bible is still a rediculas supposed basis for morality, as our morals change quickly over time, and the “scripture” does not. George Orwell, a forward thinking intelligent man
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78, Come on now, can you really have to much Stella Artois?
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Another post brfore I read idiot. Its about ID being allowed in a science class.
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@ able semen
“You believe in the message of the bible: what message is that?”
“As to the new testament being a good set of guidelines – I don’t think so”
Now I agree, maybe I wasn’t clear that most of the bible is a political tool., BUT… there are some good points in how to live in a constructive society. People should support and respect each other (”Love thy neighbour”). People should not live in a society that is divided and segregated (”Judge not lest thee be judge…let he without sin cast the first stone”).
If you do not feel these are good points then I really see no more point discussing this. The bible was an early form of a social contract. One that has served our societies for many many years. (albeit under false pretentious, but that just goes to show the corrupting influence humans have.
“Jesus could have prevented so much pain and suffering in the years to come if he been a bit more specific in his rules: do not kill; do not abuse; do not enslave; treat women as equals; do not steal; do not cheat (not the ten (fifteen, twenty?) commandments which were only applied –“
Again… This is where I tried to separate the teachings of Jesus from the Bible. The Bible in its various forms was constructed (the books were chosen to form canon). If you actually look at the Gnostic gospels you well find those “rules” in there. Especially the treatment of women, gospel of Mary and the as yet unclear relationship of Mary and Jesus (wife, lover, friend?). The removal of which allowed the church to vilify women.
And a bit more clearly:
“Jesus could have prevented so much pain and suffering in the years to come if he been a bit more specific in his rules”
Look eventually people have to think for themselves. These, as I mentioned before are GUIDES not rules, (a rule requires punishment for the breaking of it). This is the basis of jurisprudence and our social contract with the government, but really what kind of punishment can we not escape from, even if we evade the law? Hence the concept of Hell is invented by humans as a blanket attempt to PREVENT crime and social disorder – One’s eternal soul is at risk; or so people believed. Unless you were catholic and could do anything as long as you sought confession…
“As god he could have eradicated malaria”
For the record I believe Jesus was not a God, son of God, a prophet or in any way shape or form divine. Instead I feel he was a man with a bloody good idea for social change, but who unfortunately was used as a basis for a system that would bear his name but would be in complete contradiction to his teachings of peace and social tolerance.
“fictional characters listening to a talking snake and eating magical fruit?”
Never heard of allegory? A lot of the bible’s stories are just that stories to tell people who believed then, in such things as magic. Aesop’s Fables are good guides as well but do you refute them because it has a talking tortoise? No we listen to the story. Again humans(the churches) have described these as fact to impress simple peasants. But surely most intelligent humans cans spot allegory for what it is.
“Free Will(y) is a better story (and is more principled.)”
Seriously… (sigh). Why are stories like Free Will(y) so good. Because A) they have a modern twist B) they are the product of over two thousand years of development of the concept of “Story Telling” and finally C) like most storylines they are loosely based on elements from what Jesus was trying get across: Social Tolerance, helping each other, mutual respect etc. And as for being more principled well that is subjective but there you go.
“I find it a horrible, savage, hate-filled propaganda vehicle for a bunch of crazies who are hell bent on taking over the world (that would include jews, muslims and christians).”
I couldn’t agree more. And the bible and its corruption of Jesus’ teachings is a prime example of that. But concentrating on destroying the Bible’s divinity, and thus trying to destroy Religion (which will never happen, because the weak minded have to believe in something and will therefore always be the slave to someone (Interestingly enough it was Bertrand Russell (one of the greatest minds, and Atheist flag waver, who said that as long as they (the plebs) are content with their lives and happy, then this is morally and socially acceptable. A concept which I find a little hard to swallow, but am forced to nonetheless agree to on practical terms: Some people cannot think freely, be it a product of their genetics or education. However, I feel that it must be a condition that as a society we should struggle to fix as a matter of urgency. Russell’s view is maybe more stable, but I don’t think I can accept it without this one consensus. The difference: religion keeps people’s minds closed where we are trying to open them, but that requires an understanding of conscience and social contract otherwise it will be anarchy.
The argument goes beyond religion: What freedom of thought do we really have? We are told what news articles to watch. Newspapers give opinion and print it as fact, or in a very biased manner. For most people the freedom extends to whether it will be McDonalds, or Burger King for dinner, and that will probably be decided by connivance/marketing/financial factors etc which are well beyond the control of the average citizen.
As for the existence of Jesus, I am not an expert, but scholars generally agree that a man called Jesus existed and roughly followed a life played out in both the Canonical and Gnostic gospels. Of course I don’t think he was divine. But I feel maybe I have not been clear. Jesus may or not have preached in the manner set out in the gospels, but the words are said to be his (both biblical and historical evidence suggest this so I refer to them as his). I give credit to him and those who have echoed his ideas throughout history, and not a bastardized version of them meant as a method of political control, nor those that blindly follow it. I feel it is definitely not a case of the medium is the message.
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@116
I wrote my reply/clarification while your comment came through.
“Jesus probably did exist. However most of the bible either stole existing mythology or can be proven wrong historically.”
Answered above. I agree but that’s why it’s a story book. Called allegory. Doesn’t mean it’s not a set of good ideas. (See Star Wars, etc. Good ideas but not true)
“The entire biblical story, however it originally was, was rewritten to fulfill jewish proficies,”
The bible, and I assume you mean canonical gospels and OT, was written by many different people over time. It is the basis of religions outside the Jewish one. The religions have one other very important feature in common: Geography. If A tribe in China had similar concepts then this would be more evidence at the divine. Instead God, apparently only chose to speak to a geographically small area. This gives greater belief that it was a political document (possibly against the Romans/Greek influence).
“The bible, even if we ignoor the constant changes and assume the now version is the only version”
There is no “Now Version”. There are different versions based on different interpretations and translations. It changes every time a group wants to separate itself (mostly I feel for political gain). But remember the OT is the basis of practically all of the main religions(Judaism, Christianity, Muslim) etc. I feel that Jesus tried to break with these religions (all of them) and get people to think for themselves. Instead his words were corrupted and selective accounts were included (both actually truth, allegory, blatant lies). Further the OT was kept as canon and a lot of the traditions of previous religions were kept (such as Christmas, Easter etc) as to smooth a transfer from these three religions (plus the roman/greek deities), into one all mighty political tool.
“, as our morals change quickly over time”
Which is interesting because, although scripture does not change, it’s interpretation of, and use of does to suit the then political and social climate. They change and so do our morals because the church was the basis of our morals, the separation of which is of course was what I feel Jesus was trying to do (pre-corruption).
Things like social tolerance, mutual support etc are things that even today survive and are seen as good things. THESE have NOT CHANGED and these are what Jesus was saying.
“George Orwell,”
AN interesting choice there. A die hard Communist until late in life. Many of Jesus’ (NOT THE BIBLE’S NOR THE CHURCH’S) ideas can be linked with the true ideals of Communism (-pre Stalin), but he became aware of the human corruption of it (Stalinism and the current concept of Communism which is very akin to modern day religion), and very publically denounced it (1984, and I feel more importantly, Animal Farm).
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“by creating a fake religion?”
its not a religion its a personal connection to his noodleness
RAmen
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Good point. Historians can use religious evidence to study cultures, its further proof that man has been deluded for millennia.
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Humans didn’t invent pasta. Thats what he WANTS you to think
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wow! everyone is so judgemental. I really feel sad for the people who really believe in FSM and are so deceived that they don’t even know it. That girl said that us Christians would probably forget to pray, but I think personally it’s hard for me to forget that people in this world are believing in something that will only make them feel good for a time. What happens when something bad happens in your life? God is always there and promises to never leave us or forsake us. He is the only one true God. I know when I’m in trouble His spirit helps me and guides me. Not noodles!
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@ 124
You know that little voice or feeling inside your head that guides you and helps you when you are in trouble Jack? I’ll let you in on a little secret. It’s not an invisible sky-daddy – it’s simply YOU.
As for the people on this site being ‘deceived and don’t even know it’ and ‘being so judgmental’: that is a classic example of the pot calling the kettle black. Have you ever tried turning thr spotlight around and using this same ingenious logic on yourself?
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124-wow! everyone is so judgemental. I really feel sad for the the people who really believe in god and are so deceived that they don’t even know it.
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Jack Wilson (#124). Give us an example of how god helped you – with proof of same.
Believers are great rationalists: If they get what they wanted, god did it! If not, god has
a better plan. Either way, god wins! Her deep faith didn’t save my mother from a long,
horrible bout with cancer that killed her in her 30’s with 3 small children left behind. I guess
god’s plan was for me to lose my faith, eh?
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Jack @ 124, you are so judgemental. I really feel sad for the people who really believe in the bearded sky daddy and are so deceived that they don’t even know it. I think personally it’s hard for me to forget that people in this world are believing in something that will only make them feel good for a time. What happens when something bad happens in your life? FSM is always there and promises to never leave us or forsake us. His Noodly Goodness is the only one true god. I know when I’m in trouble His Noodliness helps me and guides me. Not bronze age myths!
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I just want to point out that we do not object to religion being taught, but it being taught in science class, as science.
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@#120
To be honest you just seem to repeat my ramblings but in a slightly more christian way. Did you disagree with me? I find it hard to work out.
The talking snake story is NOT allegory to almost all christians (particularly the billion catholics). These faiths depend on the garden of eden as fact as a basis for their religions. Without the fall christians would have no original sin – for which jesus is supposed to have died for – and his existence becomes a moot point.
My point about Free Willy (sigh..) was an attack on the idea of free will. Have you never heard of “taking the piss”?
There is almost no evidence for the existence of the christian jesus (Josephus, Tacitus, Suetonius, and Pliny the Younger refer to a jesus/christians but that’s it). All the words of the christian jesus are to be found in the NT which was written by rampant followers many years after his supposed death on a cross – jesus most likely uttered none of them.
You seem to be putting a lot of words into jesus’ mouth. As you state, we have gained 2000 years of knowledge, yet we have no idea of the context to which the NT words applied. It is not possible for you to assign so much to jesus – or perhaps you know him personally? Almost everything you take as good from the bible can be found in the teachings of buddha some 500 years before – and that comes without the jewish tilt. The OT and NT teachings are not guides; they are strict rules and the biblical follow up is that you will be punished if you break them.
I have just returned from a holiday in Ireland and it was disturbing to see the effects of blind faith: finding the virgin mary in a tree stump; moving statues; hallucinations in the west; and the general desperate hope. I personally think that it is just not right to let the “plebs” get on with it: They are disillusioned and need help.
Just a thought: Most people on earth have a hope of a life to come after this shitty (for them) one – believing in this means that if they kill another person, the person they have killed will go to this better place. So subconsciously they have a get out clause for murder. The fact they may go to hell (recant?) does not change the fact that they believe the victim is not dead forever. If people did not believe the tripe of an after-life perhaps they would have more respect for life here on this planet.
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Well, since there has been over a hundred responses to this already, most tipping the favor in the direction of fsm. I think its pretty much proven, FSM DID get its point across!
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“The talking snake story is NOT allegory to almost all Christians”
Actually, I will disagree with you on this one. I live in a very Catholic country, and many people here, and I have discussed this at length with many many people (religious, scientists, politicians etc), agree that the bible uses allegory to tell stories. For the rest of them well, like I said: “But surely most intelligent humans cans spot allegory for what it is”.
This is offset by the people who take the bible literally, but I’m sure there are psychology/psychiatric reasons for this.
“My point about Free Willy (sigh..) was an attack on the idea of free will. Have you never heard of “taking the piss”?
Ahhh yes. Funny. Well actually I have had that argument thrown at me before, when I refer to the bible as a story book. I always point out that if the bible was written nowadays it would have different stories, but the ideals (and lies) would be more or less the same.
“There is almost no evidence for the existence of the christian jesus (Josephus, Tacitus, Suetonius, and Pliny the Younger refer to a jesus/christians but that’s it)”
So:
Josephus: one of the most prominent Jewish Rebels, turned Roman in later life,
Tacitus, Suetonius: two major historians of the time, and
Pliny the Younger: one of Rome’s greatest statesmen,
All lived within 50 years of Jesus’ execution; all had firsthand accounts of the Jewish wars; all lived before the adoption of Christianity by Rome, or the creation of canonical text. So these people are on record having talked about Jesus and Christians and you still suggest there is no evidence of a man called Jesus existing? Historians (from all religions, walks of life etc), working from all angles, historical accounts, religious accounts, social considerations etc, all agree that there was a man called Jesus who was a Jewish Teacher. In Islam he is considered a prophet, more probably to piss off the Jews, who of course denounced him as a heretic. However the fact remains, it is more than likely that a man called Jesus existed.
“All the words of the christian jesus are to be found in the NT which was written by rampant followers many years after his supposed death on a cross – jesus most likely uttered none of them”.
Again, where is you historical evidence for saying that he probably didn’t say any of this? Even in the Gnostic gospels his teachings are present (the good ones that the Church didn’t want revealed). The fact remains that he is cited as saying them, so I will refer to them as his words. I am however, more interested in the words than the person.
I used to find it very easy to believe that Jesus didn’t exist. It made it much easier for me to slam religion but I looked into it, and am now convinced that Jesus did exist and did preach. Most of which I agree has been bastardised.
“As you state, we have gained 2000 years of knowledge, yet we have no idea of the context to which the NT words applied. It is not possible for you to assign so much to jesus”
Actually we know more than you think. Historians are very good at their job. Especially now there has been a slant towards biblical history. This is being covered by Historians from all sides.
On Buddha; Buddha lived, as you said about 500 years before Christ. There are rumblings, how true I cannot say, but it’s an interesting idea, that as Buddha and Buddhists travelled a lot to spread his word, that his teachings could have spread over and could have inspired Jesus. Remember Christianity spread in less time, so it is possible that travellers/ merchants on the spice/silk roads could have “spread the word”. I’ve always believed that Buddhism is a very worthy Religion.
In particular Buddha’s teachings of: ethics and understanding, the questioning of divine beings and Dukkha: That all beings suffer from all situations due to unclear mind.
“I personally think that it is just not right to let the “plebs” get on with it: They are disillusioned and need help.”
So you are going to force them to believe in what you believe. Sounds familiar? No, I agree it’s just you make it sound so “Staliny” – “They are wrong I am right, believe me”. The Church, for all its problems was on to a winner, even Russell admitted that. You are an intelligent person, and most people who question beliefs are, that is why the church has tried to control education for so long. So it is very easy for the likes of Dawkins and others to preach (that is the correct word I’m afraid to say), that they are wrong, and idiots for believing in something someone tells them to believe. No one takes a second to see the irony in that.
It is a sad fact that many people cannot form free will. I put this down to religion and poor education. But most people have to believe in something for psychology/psychiatric reasons. We are genetically pre-programmed to accept this so we can function in a society.
Personally I believe the way to win this is through education, which is why I strongly applaud FSM and its IRONIC (for those that actually think this is real) twist on the ID debate. A strong education plan, based on free thought and independent learning is essential, with solid support from Government/society (see Starship troopers, the book not the film). But that requires a lot of effort by all parties. And it’s not just religion that’s in on this. Governments are as well. Traditionally in UK when Labour government is in power education collapses, the same is true now.
I feel you and I are both idealists seeing the frustrations in the world. I just feel the argument of Religion is a small part of a bigger picture. I feel attacking people’s beliefs is wrong, no matter how they came about them because is a battle we cannot win as it is fought on their ground. They see this as another religion trying to assert dominance over theirs. This will only act to increase their faith. We must choose how and when to fight our battles.
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#97 Christy
“But what really has me is that I understand God.”
Really? Wow!!
Then, could you please explain me why He, as an all-knowing god, condemned all us because our forefathers -who couldn’t distinguish between “good” and “bad”- disobeyed him, and after some thousands of years (and after killing fast all humanity with Noah’s flood) He send Himself down to earth to die for us in order that He can forgive us and He was not forced (by who?) to send us to a place -designed by Him specially for us- where we will be tortured for all the eternity because some people we don’t know eat a fruit?
Could you explain me how is it possible than an all-powerful and all-knowing god creates a “good” being -satan, the best of his angels- without free will and that being becomes “bad”?
If not, could you at least explain why your God’s powers have been decreasing over the years? I mean, come on… Creation of earth -and after that, creation of the sun, lol. The Flood was pretty impressive too, wasn’t it? Then egyptian’s plagues were not that bad. Transforming water into wine? Curing a blind? Curious, at least. Appearing himself in a toast??
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Well here’s a guy who can’t figure out the blindingly obvious – the church of the FSM is around for several reasons –
It’s a laugh
The tax breaks are good
Spaghetti is nummy
And it upsets the hell out of the serial onanists who claim to be “good christians”
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why did you bother?
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Reply to post 124 :
“wow! everyone is so judgemental. I really feel sad for the people who really believe in FSM and are so deceived that they don’t even know it. That girl said that us Christians would probably forget to pray, but I think personally it’s hard for me to forget that people in this world are believing in something that will only make them feel good for a time. What happens when something bad happens in your life? God is always there and promises to never leave us or forsake us. He is the only one true God. I know when I’m in trouble His spirit helps me and guides me. Not noodles!”
God is always there?
GOD IS ALWAYS THERE??
Once you die. He will send you to hell to be tortured for all eternity.
is god there for you then?
no?
good riddance
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All religions have a nutshell of truth inside their very hearts. However, only Pastafarianism offers to the whole world a religion of Hope and Empowerment, a religion of Trust and Service, a religion of Honour and Compassion. We do not know for sure if FSM exists or not. May be, He is an allegory of just the good things inside our very feeble minds. However, our religion was founded on true values of Tolerance and Humility, of Skepticism and Rationality, and that are just the things that made me a Pastafarian in my youth fifty years ago (being the son of a couple of IPU believers).
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Togoso (#120) said “So these people are on record having talked about Jesus and Christians and you still suggest there is no evidence of a man called Jesus existing? ”
Yes. They mentioned Christians worshipping a Christ (not an uncommon title, actually).
The existence of Christians does not prove the existence of Jesus.
If it did, there would be a panoply of gods, wouldn’t there?
References to an individual is always third-hand, mispelled and/or inserted later as a “correction” by Christian scholars.
Where’s the Gospel of Jesus, Togoso? Mighty poor job of being a messiah, if you ask me.
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@138
1) They actually mentioned the name Jesus as well, but you seemed to miss that one.
2) There are other numerous sources that recount the name Jesus, some more solid than others.
But the fact that his name has been mentioned not just “Christ”. Interestingly I’m reviewing the Gnostic Gospels and they all refer to Jesus as “Jesus” – Never Christ which means anointed one. Maybe that title was added (much) later? Anyone know?
“Where’s the Gospel of Jesus? Mighty poor job of being a messiah, if you ask me”
Two things
1) I have ALWAYS stated I do not believe Jesus to be divine.
2) If you are a teacher (like Jesus was said to be), and you have a following, and these people are recording everything, then why do you need to write anything? The Gospels (Gnostic) are themselves all together, accounts of his teachings, so maybe you could refer to the whole lot as the Gospels of Jesus.
Look, if you want to carry on looking into Jesus’ existence as proof/disproof of the divinity of the Bible then carry on. But I’m out on this one. I just think that:
a) some of Jesus (credited to him so I’ll refer to them as his) teachings (Gnostic and canonical gospels) make some sense and are found in other non-Jewish based religions,
b) there is more than enough evidence for a free thinking individual to doubt the divine nature of the bible and of Religious institutions. Likewise, unfortunately, for someone who is not as free thinking, there is more than enough evidence to prove the divine nature of the Bible. You have to see all sides of a problem before tackling it.
We should now, slowly and carefully move away from Religion and situations like able semen has described:
“I have just returned from a holiday in Ireland and it was disturbing to see the effects of blind faith: finding the virgin Mary in a tree stump; moving statues; hallucinations in the west; and the general desperate hope. I personally think that it is just not right to let the “plebs” get on with it: They are disillusioned and need help.”
and through education, move towards a more functional society. I just feel shouting and screaming at Religious folks for being thick and believing in a stupid pointless God, will not work. It will in fact have the opposite affect, as this is their area. It has taken science hundreds of years to undo the dogmatic mess of Early Christian belief and that was with irrefutable evidence.
Gradually the Church has lost its grip on education and we CAN NOT allow it to gain it again. Nor for that matter of fact any other such institution, ie Government, Financial Institutions etc.
So once again I applaud the work of FSM in making sure that ID is NEVER taught in schools and helping in educating those that come to this site.
Remember, we are dealing with people who blindly believe that fossils are a giant conspiracy sent by the devil. Sorting out that kind of indoctrination is going to happen overnight. Many of these people have a gross misunderstanding of evolution (some still call it Darwinism). We must educate than and remove the myths and lies which their own people are telling them about the evils of science.
Look not blowing my own trumpet here, but using this approach I have actually converted two Jehovah Witnesses, that used to come round. They came round “spreading the word”. We talked, about the Bible, Jesus, Evolution (I corrected many of their misbelieves about the subject), even Theoretical Physics (in which I have a Masters Degree). They came round several times, even bringing round “Support”. I could literally feel their eyes opening in front of me. Two of those have since left their Church. It’s a start.
Again like able semen correctly suggested, it’s about Free Will. But you cannot force free will on someone who is not used to. They get scared and fall back on their faith. Respect their beliefs and gently try to nudge them out of it. It’s difficult because free thought comes easy to many people such as you (theFewtheProudtheMarinara) and able semen, so we find it so obvious. Others do not have that luxury. Although I agree with Richard Dawkins in every respect, and I applaud him (and others) in his courage in making a stand, I just can’t help but feel that he is doing the “cause” more damage than good.
Time will tell.
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What’s the difference between a church and a cult? Easy. It is the number of members.
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I don’t really care whether you pray for me to your big imaginary friend.
But do let me know if you recieve any sort of reply.
You’re. Not your. You’re means you-are, as in “You’re full of dogmatic bullshit.” Your, as in, “Your god has smaller balls than our god.”
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Yo creo que El Verdadero Dios es Jesus, pero tampoco veo al Pastafarismo como un Juego. Yo e ido a tallarinatas y e bendecido la Comida en honor del Monesvol, tambien lo hago con las pizzas. Yo soy un usuario corriente de una Wikia llamada Inciclopedia, y ahi me expreso como pastafarista, aunque yo soy cristiano y nada me ara cambiar de religion. Si estoy con Amigos, bendigo la comida en honor a Monesvol. Por que el Monstruo de Espaguetti volador debe ser falso? si a mi se me presentara, yo creeria en el, pero no como un dios, sino como yo creo que existe alguien, asi de simple. si no lo entienden es, o porque su cerebro es muy pequeño para entenderlo, o nesecitan alguien que los acoja, en este caso yo les recomiendo a Jesus, pero no se puede saber si el monesvol es verdadero, de la misma forma que no se puede saber si es falso.
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Togoso: Nice job on the Witnesses. I was leaving the other day and didn’t have time to talk to one who had her kid tagging along. Made me wonder just how I’d approach things with a 7-or-8 year old boy with her.
Anyway, isn’t it odd that the gospels (unless you think one of the remaining 4 qualifies) of Jesus’ “direct” apostles (Thomas, Mary, etc) were thrown out in favor of 3rd person accounts?
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@ theFewtheProudtheMarinara
“how I’d approach things with a 7-or-8 year old boy with he”
I’m sure it was Dawkins who said that the concept of a Religious child was incorrect. I think I’m quoting from the God delusion here. Correct me if I’m wrong. But I’m pretty sure that was her intention, bring the child along for a greater impact. If however, you can lay the seeds of doubt in the mother, the child will pick up on that. Very receptive minds children have.
As for the Gnostic Gospels being thrown out… Well that’s politics. They were saying things that made the new Church very uncomfortable. Especially Thomas who described Jesus as the Thomas (twin) of Thomas, therefore bringing into doubt Jesus’ alledge divinty; and Mary who was married to (possibly, but at the very least in a relationship with) Jesus. Anything that directly, or indirectly brings into question Jesus divinty was thrown out. Then the accepted NT (written well after the fact) was included. Third person also adds and air of mystery about him.
The whole thing was a political tool to bring about a unified church, under direct control. You have to admired the effort. To bring elements from all religions and marry them into one was an incredable acheivement. The fact we now have people believing some piece of constructed Historical fiction 2000 years on demonstrates its brilliance. Further the degree in which the dogma is entrenched in our societies (for better or for worse) is a testament to politcal skill the church has wielded throughout the ages. Like I said before this is not going to come overnight. But We are gaining ground in areas like education, so we should keep up the effort. OUr goal should be an equal and just society, where free thought and inteligence are things we strive for the better of each other. Not just complete and total anarchy (which I feel is the opposite of Religion), where I feel if we are not careful, we could end up.
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@Togoso: Yes, sadly there are a lot of weak-minded people who need a boogie-man-in-the-sky to keep them in line. The ruling class recognized this long ago, though there were times of contention between the court and the clergy (like Henry the 8th). I wonder now – how often world leaders actually believe in religion, or are they just playing the charade for our sakes?
And yes, I agree that the sale of Christianity/Islam/whatever to the masses was brilliant. Of course, in years past the alternative to conversion could have been death by torture, but how they keep this mess going nowadays mystifies me.
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“I wonder now – how often world leaders actually believe in religion, or are they just playing the charade for our sakes?”
I would guess nearer the 0% mark. I just imagine them all in a room laughing: “People will believe anything…hahahaha”
“but how they keep this mess going nowadays mystifies me.”
You said it best: “sadly there are a lot of weak-minded people who need a boogie-man-in-the-sky to keep them in line”
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I guess its youre time to waste typing out a letter no-ones going to care about.
Dweebs? Come on, do you live in the 1950’s?
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Jack Wilson says “What happens when something bad happens in your life? God is always there…”
The other day some woman on the news who survived a plane crash was thanking god for her survival. If something like that happens to me, I’m gonna say “God tried to kill me, but I showed the old goat!”
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Perhaps all religion courses should be combined with Mythology courses. You know, to “enrich our knowledge of cultures that existed way before our ancestors were born.”
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Hi I’m a Christian/Catholic/whatever, I’m going to prove to you how devout I am to my religion by picking apart your website rather than being in church or donating blood or something like that. Because those things aren’t worthwhile to me. This is.
I’m so amused right now. Leaving such a long hate response. Why is it adults preach to children, ‘if you don’t like something, just ignore it,’ and yet, they can’t follow their own advice? Makes one wonder.
I guess I’m loosely Christian or something. I don’t know. But I’m also a Pastafarian. rAmen! :D
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