Not a hate-mail, but I don’t have a category for this sort:
I am not a scientist but I am a teacher (not in florida). I am a Christian and personally believe in intelligent design. However, I do not believe it is my place to force Christianity into the classroom either. I will live my life as a Christian and feel free to share my faith when necessary and unforcefully. Anyway, I don’t think anyone will get anywhere in this argument. First, even if there was a “Big Bang” where did the first big rock come from and what hit it? Even science can’t explain something coming from nothing. On the flip-side even Christians can’t explain when or how God began. All I know is that science can only explain so much and so does the bible. So, it’s faith in either God or Science. Faith that God did it or that science will discover it. I personally believe that science studies God’s creation including scientific laws. I also believe that there are some things in the Holy Bible that will better understood in the end. Even the gospels told of secrets that were not shared with the masses. Also, who can argue that evolution exists? That’s fact!!! The argument is creation v. just happening.
-tgilmer
Science provides a set of tools that yield no replicable data on God. The bible describes events and not processes. science describes process but not events. The two have virtually no over lap. The problems arise when the adherents of the Bible try to impose their system as the definitive final word on all things
It’s fine with most of us if someone wishes to be a christian ( I am) but I surely don’t want your religious opinions in my face as so many Christians seem to feel that they have a right to do. on the same token I keep my religious positions to myself in most circumstances. For me to do otherwise would be an act of disrespect. So may the Parmesan be with you
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First of all, if you’re going to argue about the Big Bang theory, at least get it correct first. It’s not that a big rock was hit by something, which then made it asplode into the universe; it’s that Nothing asploded into Something, which then expended into the universe. It makes much more sense that way.
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I seem to have missed the title of your post. No one has a testable hypothesis on what was the originating event of the big bang , anymore than they have Data on God’s parents ( or grand parents) actual origins are currently untestable. I’m reasonably sure that I exist but you are iffy, if not stop by the office and we can grab a beer after work
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The Big Bang isn’t rocks hitting each other, it’s more a very large energy source expanding and creating lots of heat, contracting and attracting each other to create matter.
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Thankyou for lifting the pro christianity comments out of the gutter and into the realm of intelligent discussion. I’m willing to be convinced that a higher being created the start of the universe as no one can prove anything at this stage. However, I won’t believe in it or base my life around it until someting has been proven, and that is how I think all people should live: finding answers for themselves. I personally haven’t found those answers in Christianity.
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At least you get part of the argument, though I don’t know about this big rock you speak of. MAybe you should look up the Big Bang……….
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It never fails to astound me that seemingly intelligent people like yourself can admit it’s possible that we are here through a process of events we are yet to understand but then go on to talk about the bible as if it is some sort of writings by mystical beings who knew secrets of the universe hidden to all us other mere mortals. Just a heads up for ya TG, the bible was written by men with vested interests from all walks of life living through different ages. Have you ever read the damn thing? It’s a pile of bs stories that any moron can see was chucked together rather haphazardly by some dictator who then went out and smashed people until they agreed to worship the drivel. Do some research TG, most of the crap in the bible is ripped off from previous relgions and given a new spin when the RC church looked like losing its grip on power. Wake up and smell the roses dude, noone will laugh at you for admitting it was a crock.
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Well, the Big Bang was not the result of two bodies of mass colliding, it was the result of extreme mass and pressure building up and the resulting explosion casting mass into the blankness that became the Universe. Of course the question of where said mass came from is a mystery, some think it was the result of a previous universe converging in on itself, the duration of a single universe being referred to as a Kalpa. Another theory is that stored energy in the universe was the only thing existing, and eventually the energy became matter (kind of a reverse from splitting an atom and releasing energy). Either way, the universe was created when FSM got really drunk, so it is a moot point.
RAmen
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Again what you, and most christians, fail to realise is that science is a fluid changing process. Science changes to become better, faster, and stronger constantly. The bible, not so much. Only people’s interpretations of the bible change, they omit or twist the bible to fit what they feel represents current society. Also as a teacher you really should learn the theory of evolution. Evolution explains the diversity of life, not the creation. Abiogenesis is the current favourite model for how life began on earth. So please go to youTube.com and type in DonExodus2 he has some excellent video on how evolution works. If you type in Abiogenesis several good, some are kind of dry though, videos on that subject should give you a good start on understanding what Science has been doing about the issue.
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Oh no. I fear for this teacher’s students. Oh, not because of his/her religious views, but because of his inability to construct a grammatical sentence, or form a cogent argument. FSM help us, what has happened to our educational system?
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hey tgilmer,
I think you misunderstand the big bang theory. It’s not about one massive rock hitting another.
And science does intend to explain something coming from nothing, thats what the big bang theory is FOR.
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I would argue that it doesn’t matter where the two particles (not rocks) that collided to create the cosmos came from or how they collided. There are some interesting and probable conjectures out there and they go beyond my level of thinking. I can comprehend a lot of things–abiogenesis, when explained, seems like a perfectly airtight theory and coerces a, “Why did we not conceive of it sooner!” reaction from me–but fluctuations, bends, beginnings and termini of space-time are completely beyond my capability for comprehension. I leave it to the geniuses to figure these things out and I don’t pass judgement on what I can’t possibly understand except for, “Maybe these people who are a googol times smarter than me know better than I do how space-time began and how matter formed.
I’m simply limited to Occam’s Razor on this issue. What is more likely and violates fewer physical and natural laws:
The universe has always been here, even if it bangs and crunches; unlikely
Hawking, et al., are correct, even if I don’t understand what the hell they’re on about; likely
A supreme being, one that exists today and cares about what I believe, what I eat and who I have sex with, created everything, though he was never created; very highly unlikely
A supernatural presence who has no interest in human affairs (or the affairs of any other creature on Earth or in the universe) created the universe, although the creator was not created; slightly less unlikely than the previous
We do not know, nor are our mammalian brains evolved to find food and avoid predators currently capable of knowing, how the universe began, nor do we need to wrack our brains on the issue or speculate on the matter (or fill the information gap with dogma) if our species, in general, are not yet mentally qualified to solve it; most likely
I think it’s about here where Occam’s wonderful Razor tells us to shut the fuck up and live our lives as if the issue didn’t exist.
On this matter, and very few others, I take a “militaristic Agnostic” stance: I don’t know and neither do you, now shut the fuck up and stop mentally masturbating all over cyberspace.
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“The first big rock” came along _long after_ the Big Bang. The Big Bang was NOT the bang of ‘big rocks’ colliding, it’s a metaphor for the sudden expansion of all space-time, matter, and energy from a single point. I’m sure that a physicist or cosmologist could explain it all more precisely, but this is the general idea. In science, it’s important to have some understanding of the ideas you are criticizing. This is a difference between the scientific process and the regurgitation of ridiculous dogma that sadly marks too much of religious culture. Rocks came into being long after the BB when the universe had cooled enough to allow stars and planets (big rocks) to form.
“So, it’s faith in either God or Science.” Not really. Faith is believing in a concept (like God) without any evidence. Science is the process of determining the simplest explanation from the evidence. Science looks at fossils and says “look the bones of animals that died millions of years ago”. Religion looks at them and “forget about the evidence of radioisotope dating, etc., our book says the universe is only about 6000 years old (but gives no evidence), so there weren’t any animals millions of years ago. The fossils? Well, the devil knew you were going to teach evolution, so he planted those fossils.” Again, no evidence of the existence of a devil or that he planted those fossils…just the book. Religion is not (necessarily) wrong, Science is not automatically better, but the first is based on Faith while the second is based on evidence.
“The argument is creation v. just happening.” If that’s what you want to argue about, fine. But dressing up Creation in the clothes of science doesn’t make it science. Mainstream scientists have rejected Intelligent Design based on the (lack of) evidence. Creation & Intelligent Design are ideas of religion, not science. If & when evidence for these ideas arise (and no, the Bible is not evidence, and neither is “but evolution & the BB are just so ridiculous…it just _can’t_ be true!”)…if and when evidence is presented these can have considered again by the scientific community. Until then, please keep your religion out of science classrooms and I’ll keep physics and logic out of your church (and synagogue & mosque & …). As for “just happening”, this also is not part of scientific thought. There are plenty of hypotheses trying to explain how atoms became organized into organic molecules, how molecules formed cells, how cells formed tissues & complex structures like eyes, etc. No one could take “It just happened” seriously as a hypothesis–the point of science is to suggest explanations for _how_ it happened.
Thank you
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“feel free to share my faith when necessary” – when is it ever necessary to share your faith!?
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“First, even if there was a “Big Bang” where did the first big rock come from and what hit it?” – what big rock?
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“So, it’s faith in either God or Science.” – you dont have faith in science – you have facts
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tgilmer, before you ask these sorts of questions you should probably read up a little on the ‘big bang’ theory (the actual scientific stuff, not the strawman so often thrown up by creationists). You say you are a teacher, then I would think you would understand the importance of reading up on a topic before trying to debate it.
ramen
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first there was nothing. which exploded.
a likley story!
we all know the great FSM created all with his noodley appendages!
RAmen!
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I appreciate the writer is trying to use logic to answer the question, which immediately puts him/her ahead of the pack. I hope this is seen as a useful start, not as a pretext for mud-slinging. What’s needed now is a little time on Wikipedia, reading up on:
Big Bang theory (it’s not about rocks);
the “God of the Gaps” fallacy;
and the Scientific Method in general.
Big Bang theory is ugly, it doesn’t help us much with questions of “before” (note the quotes), but it’s still around for one simple reason: it’s the best scientific theory we have that explains what we observe. By “we” I mean that there is a scientific community working on these problems, and they are doing it worldwide, across cultural and temporal divides, yet the observations agree. If it works, it doesn’t matter whether we like it or not, or whether it gibes with our personal beliefs; if you get this, you’re on the way to understanding what science is.
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The reasoning about “faith in science is like faith in god” remember me of the “faith in logic is like faith in god”, so well mocked in one of the last Jesus and Mo strips: http://www.jesusandmo.net/2008/06/27/logic/
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You serious, man? You really think the Big Bang is about rocks banging together? I teach 8th grade science, and one of my students thought that was it about rocks banging together as well. Is this another straw man propagated in church? Learn what the Big Bang is before you criticize it. It’s not like it’s hard to go to wikipedia and type in big bang theory. And while you’re at it, type in evolution as well. Educate yourself!!!
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Although this is more coherent and less aggressive than most of the messages on here, I can’t believe that the writer of this message is a teacher!
FSM believers KNOW FOR CERTAIN that the “big rocks” were actually meatballs and nothing to do with a singularity as practitioners of the science faith would have you believe.
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First of all, look around the world… what do you see? Really, what forces do you see? The laws of physics and chemistry is all i see. When things happen we dont see the hand of god reaching down and touching stuff, i know that sounds funny but you know what i mean… This is what David Hume refered to as vegetative generation or something like that… in other words, things seem to come from the laws of nature not from divine control.
According to what you actually observe in the world, god may be all power or not all powerful, all good or not all good, there many or only one… or perhaps none…So when you say god, which one do you believe in and why?
Now, I dont believe in any gods simply because i dont see any evidence for one. Im what you call a weak athiest. A strong atheist says I know there is not a god- not me… although im pretty sure there isnt!! “A” (without) theisitic belief or Atheism..
Now, i do admit that there is a certain amount of faith in science, sometimes before it is tested and becomes a paradigm. For me though, I see absolutely no evidence for any kind of god, and claiming that science doesnt know everything is not evidence for god. it is evidence for the ignorance of mans knowlege… once again, there is absolutely no evidence for god- belief in god is a scape goat for one to deny he/she doesnt know… its another god of the gaps argument found all the time in medieval philosophy… it explains and does nothing for our understanding… its useless, its, its… ill stop there.
So, to answer your question, nobody knows why we are here, where we are going, nor where we came from… The first rock fits into the big questions above somewhere…
To say that one must either have faith in science or god is misleading… Rather, one looks for evidence to answer these questions, there seems to be absolutely no evidence for god, therefore one becomes an atheist… then one must admit that he/she will never be able to answer these big questions.(period) You seem to understand all this however. But (and i really dont mean to be condescending) you dont seem to accept it . Its scary i know. Just admit the fact that there is no real evidence for god and youll never know what the heck is going on, no one really does…. See, no faith is needed, only hypothesis and the never ending torture that you may be completely wrong… I dont have faith in science, i more or less just dont have any evidence for god…
What boggles me is this, why do you believe in god at all? You seem to be subscribing to the 3 O god of the bible… Why?
Oh yeah, pasta forever, raamen…. Praise the flying spaghetti monster he knows all and created all, and changed my life, all the other people with changed lives and happiness are lying…. raamen.
I plan to start teaching high school sometime very soon myself. I just graduated with a philosophy degree and perhaps ill go and teach English or social studies… What do you teach?
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You fail at quantum mechanics. Something can come from nothing.
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“So, it’s faith in either God or Science.”
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No, it isn’t. Faith implies dogmatic belief that, no matter what, YOUR choice is correct and anybody else’s choice (as long as it contradicts your own) is wrong, no matter how strong an arguement they may make.
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Now, about the big bang, I seriously suggest you read some of Stephen Hawkin’s stuff. If anybody is going to figure out anything about what caused the big bang in the next few years then it’ll be that guy. ;)
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I love this guy… if only everyone was like him… it’s people like Richard Dawkings that give atheism a bad name and its the people that write the hate mail that make Christianity seem crazy.
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“First, even if there was a “Big Bang” where did the first big rock come from and what hit it?”
LOL! Hopefully you are not a science teacher, because some simple googling would explain that this is NOT the big bang theory.
“Even science can’t explain something coming from nothing.”
Yeesh, again I hope you arent a science teacher.
http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CF/CF101.html
http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CE/CE440.html
Basically, “we don’t know yet” is a proactive, exploratory view that leads to advancement and progress”
“God did it” is a scientific dead end, leads to nothing.
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do you even know the Big Bang theory? Let me inform you a little… it DID NOT start with “big rock” it started with gas you dummy.
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Wow, I’m impressed that was a good and very intelligent letter, that showed some thought and care.
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with teachers like you, the kids of today and tomorrow are fu*ked :(
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Well, it is certainly nice to see a non-basher so thankuu :3
But just a little stupid niggle from me: Not all religions with a God use the bible, and yesh I know its me being picky but hey xD
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You seem like a nice guy and fairly reasonable but you need to understand two things.
1. Science never has or will need faith. Faith does not require evidence but science does. I know that if we continue to search and experiment using the scientific method we will one day answer your question. That answer will not be a belief as it will be backed up by evidence. One should not say they believe in any particular scientific theory but rather that they understand the evidence supporting it and either agree or posit a new theory with its own evidence.
2. Cosmology (big bang theoy) and biology (evolutionary theory) have nothing to do with each other. This is a very ‘clever’ game that creationists like to play because it confuses both theories. They are independent from one another and say nothing about each other. Darwin’s theories say nothing about the origins of the universe just as big bang theory says nothing about the evolution of species. They are independent areas of study.
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Some good questions, and pleasantly put. It is nice to hear from christians who are asking the same questions we are and are willing to listen to researched answers. I too look foward to discovering the answers to the questions of the universe no matter what the answers are. Wow, I think I used “answers” and “questions” way too many times in that little paragraph! Oh well. Nice letter.
RAmen!!!!
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I would agree, to a certain extent. Science and religion can and should work together. Both sides just need to open their minds.
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You don’t really know what the big bang is, do you? It has nothing to do with big rock hitting each other, and there are no ‘bangs’ in the big bang. The title ‘big bang’ was made as a joke by a random guy who opposed the big bang, and it just stuck. Study, then come back.
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“The first big rock?” And you’re a teacher?
“Where did the first big rock come from and what hit it?” I don’t know where to begin telling you what’s wrong with that.
The Big Bang theory states that around 13.7 billion years ago the universe was condensed into an incredibly small, hot, dense “ball” of space and time called a singularity. Is this “ball” what your meant by “first big rock”? I’m not really sure but I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume it was.
The Big Bang theory does not say that the “ball” “came from nothing”; it simply postulates the existence of the singularity and then proceeds from there. The answer to the question of what came before the Big Bang is simply “No one knows yet.”
“The argument is creation v. just happening?” Okay, supposing the there was a creator. Where did he come from? Did he “just happen?” Normally, theists try to get out of this one by giving some non-answer like “Well, he exists outside of time and space” (which is the same as saying he doesn’t exist as far as I’m concerned) or “Well, he always existed.” But if an intelligent being can have always existed, then why can’t the universe have always existed? What exactly makes the first plausible to you but not the second?
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Well in this sense what’s the difference of including a God or not. If you agree with all the claims of science and say that maybe God did it, what’s the point?
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You admit that even christians cannot explain further than God. Atheists just don’t think that the God step is necessary or brings something new to what we know and can do.
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Anyway, I appreciate that you have some common sense, and if you have any further questions or want to discuss, come back here, that will change us of crappy nonsense.
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***
But you must be informed more about the big bang. Your question about the first big rock is very, very weird…
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It wasn’t nothing. But that condensed area of all matter exploded and forced the expansion of the universe. Many people can believe (and do) in the Xian god and practice science daily. Thank you for being level headed enough to know that evolution exists.
Sounds like you are on the healthy road to agnosticism. You actually get the 1st Amendment.
But it can’t be considered a rock. But, rocks form from many different elements. Then they can form in many ways: sedimentary, igneous, and metamorphic. Really cool actually. Similar to how 1 oxygen and 2 hydrogen atoms combine to make water. Or Sodium (unhealthy) and Chloride (deadly?) combine to form salt. See?
All of the matter has been there infinitely. In fact, this most recent “big bang” most likely wasn’t the first.
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That’s the Big Rock Theory, not the Big Bang Theory. The big bang is all about parallel universes, positive and negative charges, and explosions. There was no “first big rock”. Scientists also have a perfectly logical theory as to how is happened, if you’d bother to do the research before complaining to a random website that, for some reason, you assume is an atheist, anti-Christian site (it’s actually a peaceful Pastafarian site that believes in a Flying Spaghetti Monster, not the Big Bang or even the Big Rock; we’ve never attacked Christians, except those times when a Christian attacks us, and some of the more violent Pastafarians decide to argue).
You should seriously read about the big bang, though. It’s actually very interesting. I’m not telling you to even consider believing it; I myself believe that it was a Flying Spaghetti Monster, not a big bang.
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1. the first rick formed due to a series of evolutionary steps in our universe and took eons. First there was energy, matter crystalized out, stars and galaxies fromed, heavier elements were formed in the hearts fo those stars, the stars died, new ones formed, and the heavier elements eventually clumped together to form the “first” rock. THen another rock hit it.
2. I have no faith that science will discover anything… that doesn’t mean I dont want to know the real reason. It doesn’t mean I will make up bullshit (or believe someone elses bullshit) for my own “personal” answer, and it doesn’t mean there is no scientific answer to the questions science hasn’t answered yet (or science may never answer the question, doen’t mean god did it) – wake up
3. The holy bible does not explain anything except morality. It does a good job with morality, but you don’t need it to be moraly good. It is like saying I can’t be debt free without owning Dave Ramsey’s book.
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There was never a nothing. Energy is eternal. It cannot be created or destroyed. If God designed the universe and our solar system He has made a bad job of it. Are you aware that the Andromeda galaxy is on a collision course with our Milky Way. In five billion years (which is around the corner in terms of space) the Andromeda galaxy will crash into our solar system and destroy it. Some designer!
You and under the impression something came from nothing but the real truth is something is going to become nothing.
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“Also, who can argue that evolution exists? That’s fact!!!”
Try Lenski, you jackass.
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“First, even if there was a “Big Bang” where did the first big rock come from and what hit it? Even science can’t explain something coming from nothing.”
Who the hell is trying to say something hitting a big rock was the Big Bang?
You know what can be explained? The matter always existing and then changing and “banging.”
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And what’s wrong with ‘just happening’?
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i’m not sure where the first rock came from, but paper hit (beat) it. fortunately the rock can beat scissors. however scissors beats paper which beats rock which beats paper which beats….. hmmmmm conundrum!!!
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I wish there were more Christians out there like this guy :D
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“I am not a scientist but I am a teacher (not in florida). I am a Christian and personally believe in intelligent design. However, I do not believe it is my place to force Christianity into the classroom either. I will live my life as a Christian and feel free to share my faith when necessary and unforcefully. Anyway, I don’t think anyone will get anywhere in this argument.”
Thank you for not forcing your beliefs on others. You seem like a nice person.
“First, even if there was a “Big Bang” where did the first big rock come from and what hit it? Even science can’t explain something coming from nothing.”
I don’t know which “big rock” you are talking about. I’m assuming you mean the rock which created the bang. That is of course a very difficult question. I, and I’m pretty sure nobody knows how matter first came to be. However it is quite a large jump to go from, “we don’t know how it happened” to “God did it.”
“On the flip-side even Christians can’t explain when or how God began. All I know is that science can only explain so much and so does the bible. So, it’s faith in either God or Science. Faith that God did it or that science will discover it.”
This is one thing I disagree with. Mainly the statement “All I know is that science can only explain so much and so does the bible.” For the sake up discussion, lets call the sum of all knowledge “1″. Science, pretty much explains above 0.9 (being generous. I’m sure it explains MUCH MUCH more than that). The bible explains less than 0.1 (Again, being generous). Yes, they both do have their explanations, but science’s explanations have much much more credibility, because the explanations are based on evidence and logic. The explanations of the bible pretty much have to be believed without evidence at all. It is unfair to say that because both have explanations, both are intellectually equal. The equality has to be based on its credibility.
“I personally believe that science studies God’s creation including scientific laws. I also believe that there are some things in the Holy Bible that will better understood in the end. Even the gospels told of secrets that were not shared with the masses.”
I don’t really have anything to say to this. It is your belief, and I’m sure it is shared by many. Whether it’s true or not is still up to debate.
“Also, who can argue that evolution exists? That’s fact!!! The argument is creation v. just happening.”
This is quite an unfair statement. There are hundreds of millions of people who can argue for evolution. It is based on strong scientific evidence. Evolution by no means is “Just happening”.
Well, that’s about it. I’m quite bored, so I thought I would respond.
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Hey Bobby, now that we seem to be attracting semi-intelligent xtians who can actually spell AND punctuate, how about adding a new category called something like “Discuss”. As you said, it ain’t really hate mail, and it would be good to engage some of the less abusive xtians (or muslims, hindus, Baha’i’s, etc, etc) in dialogue so we might be able to understand why they believe what they do.
On the subject of abuse, here’s a quote I like: “Collective fear stimulates herd instinct, and tends to produce ferocity toward those who are not regarded as members of the herd.” Bertrand Russell
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It is nice to see people who have beliefs, but do not attempt to rabidly persuade people that their beliefs are true. However, the poster seems to be a little unclear about what the Big Bang really is, as evidenced by this quote:
“First, even if there was a “Big Bang” where did the first big rock come from and what hit it?”
The Big Bang is not an explosion. It is a rapid expansion of space-time.
While Science doesn’t have a concrete answer to what caused the big bang, there are theories that are postulated, primarily using String Theory (or M theory). Therefore, framing the beginning of the universe as “creation v. just happening” is a false dichotomy.
However, I believe that many on this site believe that “creation v. just happening” essentially mean the same thing, since nobody can prove why God would want to create the universe anyways.
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“science can only explain so much and so does the bible.”
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Exactly! That’s the whole point of this website! Every theory is equally believable. The evidence is the same for Christianity, the Big Bang, and even the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
Oh, by the way, the Big Bang theory has nothing to do with a “first big rock”. I think you’re mistaking it for the Big Rock theory. The Big Bang theory is all about parallel universes, positive & negative charges, and huge explosions. Hence, “big bang”. You should seriously do some research; it’s actually very interesting. I’m not telling you to even consider believing it; I don’t believe it myself. I believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
Oh, did you not catch that part? Yes, despite what you think, we’re not really an atheist, anti-Christian site. We’re actually a peaceful Pastafarian site that believes in a Flying Spaghetti Monster, not the Big Bang or even the Big Rock; we’ve never attacked Christians, except those times when a Christian attacks us, and some of the more violent Pastafarians decide to fight back.
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You would think a teacher would know that quantum physicists have explained the big bang (and are working on creating a small one using particle accelerators. don’t get me started because the guys that are working on it are “not 100% sure it won’t cause the end of our universe”), and it wasn’t a “big rock that something hit”, I just advise you to do at least a SMALL bit of research when trying to convince yourself that “god did it” (although I understand why that would be scary to you).
The concept of infinity is one the human mind can’t understand (both time, scale, and distance). The fact that the universe must go on forever, and must have always existed…
let me ask YOU something… with the same misunderstanding of infinite time.. Who created your god? I mean if god is a grown up man with a beard he must have been young at some point which means something must have created him at some point.. If you (wrongly) think we are saying a rock suddenly poofed into existence, you must actually think that an entire intelligent “perfect” being just poofed into existence as well. Which is even more absurd that the thought of matter poofing into existence (which is not what we think).
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Well… the ‘Big Bang’ theory didn’t start with a big rock and something hitting it. But I can’t tell if you’re belittling the theory or just don’t understand it. And in any case, the theory is inconclusive about whether ’something came from nothing’. But instead of rushing to the beliefs of primitive men (those that wrote the Bible), I’m willing to wait and see what modern science can ultimately conclude. It seems to be it is better to ‘believe’ in science – meaning things that can be shown to be or exist in the real world – than to believe in superstitious nonsense written down a couple thousand years ago. Said another way, the fact that a scientific theory of the beginning of our universe isn’t yet conclusive doesn’t make your Bible any more correct on the subject.
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That science cannot explain ’something from nothing’ is a fallacy.
You’re a teacher – look up quantum foam, zero point energy, hawking radiation, virtual particle pairs, etc. Somthings and antisomethings come from “nothing” all the time…
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Actually, if you are a teacher, your ignorance is astonishing. How is a science teacher not aware of M-Theory, or even String Theory. Something out of nothing? Big rock. I dare say you are fucking stupid.
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It was probably the collision of two membranes, not big rocks.
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Where did the first god from and who or what decided what qualities it would have?
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Translation:
“I don’t understand (nor will I make an effort TO understand) the Big Bang theory, but I do know that it doesn’t comply with certain Bronze Age texts that I believe without question. Therefore, I will bleat out my misunderstandings and plug my fingers into my ears because I do not want to lose my precious ignorance.”
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Goodness, you are a teacher?!
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This person qualifies for at least the half-brainer club.
The reasoning seems to be in line with actual opinion, and it’s not really reaming people for their beliefs. I’d rank this one as ‘interesting’, because they’re not on a nut hunt.
Change of pace is an alright idea for this section of the site.
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Perhaps a kindergarten teacher. The Big Bang doesn’t involve two colliding objects. It involves all the energy in the universe being condensed into such a tiny space by the gravity given off by it’s own sheer mass that it goes critical and explodes, quickly condensing into subatomic particles of matter and antimatter which then proceed to annihilate eachother again releasing the energy. 99.9% of the matter and antimatter created in the big bang turns back into energy (light, heat, kinetic etc), the universe as we know it is made of that last 0.1% being hurled in every direction, eventually slowing, condensing into nebulae, stars, galaxies, planets, you and I. The expansion of the universe is slowing, It may eventually stop and reverse, colapsing in onto itself untill all the matter and energy in the universe is again condensed into a brilliant point of light. Ready for the next Big Bang, the one post humanity, and perhaps the billionth one in the history of the universe.
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The Big Bang simply says all the enegy-matter in the universe was at one point in space at one point in time. It doesn’t say anything about rocks, except that these were formed by gravity billions of years later, after some stars already went supernova and spit out the heavy elements in their guts. Right after the Big Bang – there’s only hydrogen and helium. Right before the Big Bang – who knows?
Just because we don’t know something yet doesn’t mean we should invent a supernatural explanation. It will end up contradicting the eventual natural explanation anyway.
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I fear for your students. The wording of your question shows that you have zero understanding of the Big Bang. Big problem in schools: unqualified teachers. I hope your knowledge of this isnt indicative of your knowledge of other subjects.
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Tgilmer, slow yer roll.
1. I don’t think any scientists describe the big bang as “the first big rock” hitting something else.
Stick to Christianity rather than attempting to describe something so clearly out of your grasp, science.
2. Also out of your grasp, proper sentence and paragraph structure. Glad to have you teaching the nations young by Christian example.
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“First, even if there was a “Big Bang” where did the first big rock come from and what hit it?”
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The Big Bang is not about rocks. It’s about a point of singularity that, under enormous pressure, exploded. The high heat of this explosion caused immense nuclear fusion from which the elements on the periodic table were ‘created’.
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The Big Bang also does not ‘believe’ that something came from nothing. It assumes that energy and matter, which can neither be created not destroyed, have always been in existence.
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It is so improbable that an intelligent designer assembled himself out of the energy-matter that existed in order to create the universe that most Science-minded people simply reject the notion. There’s no point in considering something that defies every law of Physics, when an explanation exists that does not (Big Bang Theory).
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this is a very good argument
In my opinion there had to be tremendous amounts of gas in the begining and that there was no begining and time is infinute
anyways this gas somehow exploded and therefore condensed into all the other elements
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You have a very valid point, and it is a question I struggled with for a long time.
I became a born again christian at a very young age, and it wasn’t until around 19 before I began to question what I had always been told.
When it comes down to it, no one really knows for sure where the first particle came from, and that is ultimately the whole point of agnosticism. I firmly believe there had to be something that inspired energy to organize and pull together particles to form giant masses. There had to be something… some higher power. But I don’t know what that being is, and aside from the faith that you have developed over your years in the church, you, along with anyone involved in any form of religion, do not have any evidence to prove that you know either.
The point i’m trying to make is, no one knows for sure, and I refuse to pretend I do “just in case”.
It would sure help your god’s case, however, if he were to make a modern, pre-apocalypse appearance.
in the name of lasagna, macaroni, and angel hair pasta,
r’Amen.
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Hah! I knew I would eventually find an intelligent believer in intelligent design.
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You have a complete misconception of what the big bang is. The big bang is not someone hitting something with “a big rock”. For the sake of your own edification, and so you do not look like an idiot when you discuss this argument with other people, I suggest you go to your local bookstore and invest the $10.05 in a book which explains the theory of the universe in layman’s terms. Based on your writing, I am certain you are intelligent enough to understand it. And this is not a matter of fairth or atheism, just getting straight what the expounded theory is.
As for your other argument, you are correct–everything does in fact start from a first princliple which is beyond the ken of the person espousing it to explain. As an athest/agnostic, I merely believe the idea of a personal creator, particularly as depicted in the Xtain bible is far fetched. I believe that for a couple of reasons.
1) It is inconceivable to me that an all intelligent,”supreme being” would create a universe, leaving no direct evidence of his existence and then demand his only cognizant creations believe unquestioningly in his existence WITH NO DIRECT EVIDENCE, and then punish any beings who balk at that deal with everlasting, torture. Why would he do that? Because faith is such a good thing? Well, was faith in Hitler, Stalin, and Mao a good thing? Seems to me human beings attain their best and highest state of being when they doubt, question and withhold belief unless something can be proved. Or would you rather go back to the age of faith when women were dropped in the lake and declared witches if they floated and good xtains if they drowned?
2) The traces are all over the bible–the god of the bible was the creation of a bronze age people. He’s murderous, bloodthirsty-demands the jews rape, murder, kill and enslave the Caanites, drowns all humanity, including all their children, orders his only follower to murder his only son, and requires his own son be murdered to atone for the sin of adam.
3) By the way, if man evolved over millions of years, there was no adam and eve, and there was no original sin. Also, death has always been part of creation. The geological history of the world indicates that there have been several mass extinction events in earth’s history, so death did not originate with the sin of adam and eve. So what, therefore, is the justification for Jesus, who was sent to attone for a sin that never occurred. In short, evolutionary theory shoots a bullet through the heart of Chriistian theory, the theory of how and why Jesus came to be, and what he did.
4) Finally, there is ample evidence that Jesus, even if is he is based on an historical personage (itself a questionable proposition), is an amalgram of pagan beliefs which antedate him. The Eqyptian sun god, Horus, was born of a virgin, had a star mark out his birth, was visited by wise men as an infant, preached in the temple when he was 12, and began his ministry among men at age 30. Sound familiar. It should, the gospel authors cribbed the life story of christ from astrological and egyptian folklore.. So how valid can it be?
Like I have maintained, none of this is iron clad proof that things did not happen the way they are depicted in the Gospels, but I think it provides compelling evidence to cast their historicity into question. In short, as historical truth, the Xtain god is one far-fetched proposition.
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Very well written, and quite well thought out. Just as I would have hoped from a teacher. However, there is one problem. You see to have misinterpreted the “Big Bang”, thinking that it was caused by a collision of items in space. This is not what the theory says. I am not an expert on the Big Bang, but I thought that it was spontaineous (sp?), and caused the creation of matter. Therefore, matter could not have existed before the Big Bang. I suppose the spontenaiety (sp again?) could lean towards an argument for the existance of God but , again, who created the creator if the universe had to be created. Sorry for the long post.
RAmen
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The “Holy Bible” and all its secrets?
Is this the same Bible that supports Slavery, banishes Homosexuals and the prohibits eating shellfish (Leviticus)?
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Matter was there in the first place.
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You know, the word “science” comes from the Latin word “scientia,” meaning “knowledge.”
Science, according to Wikipedia, is the effort to discover, understand, or to understand better how the physical world works, with observable physical evidence as the basis of that understanding.
You almost treat science as if it’s a belief. You think that science and religion don’t mix, but in fact they mix all the time. If science didn’t exist–a phrase that I feel needs to be reworded somehow–we wouldn’t be where we are today. In fact, complex religions such as Christianity wouldn’t exist.
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-Xcapt. Etay
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TGILMER, not in Florida. Of course this universe and life as we know it are products of intelligent design. If you will take the time to study Pasafarianism, you will learn that our beloved Flying Spaghetti, in his infinite wisdom, created everything, even the first big rock, while exercising his divine intellect. RAmen
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I haven’t got a clue whats going on or why, and i don’t understand stuff, and it’s too hard to think about it so I believe in the FSM.
That makes me happy so I must be right, right?
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First, even if there was a “Big Bang” where did the first big rock come from and what hit it? Even science can’t explain something coming from nothing.
o_O
What big rock? I’ve never heard that one.
There’s at least a dozen different theories about the big-bang, all of them supported by very complex mathematics and physics. Very likely (in my opinion) none of these theories are in any way accurate, but that’s something scientists are still working on (and really has nothing to do with evolution at all).
(I’m not a scientist either, all my knowledge on these subjects come from sources like New Scientist Magazine, so I know I have some big gaps in my understanding, but…)
It took many decades of research and careful accumulation of evidence before Darwin’s theory of evolution was accepted in the classroom. Why should intelligent design be included without similarly rigorous research? As far as I’m aware, the only “evidence” of intelligent design are claims that this or that biological feature could not have possibly evolved naturally (while at the same time, other scientists continue to discover exactly how they evolved).
Evolution is a developing field of research, with new discoveries and theories coming up all the time. There is still heated debate about how life began. Some claim life began from the organic molecules found in “carbonous carbuncle” asteroids which sometimes fall to earth, others believe that the first organisms were based on the simple RNA instead of DNA… the list goes on. Some of Darwin’s assumptions and conclusions in Origin Of Species have been proven wrong, but the evidence supports the central idea more than ever.
I think I’ve wasted enough time with this pointless rant, so I’ll finish off with this one final thought…
Evolution may be a “theory”, but Intelligent Design is only a hypothesis.
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The Big Bang is not about a Big Rock, nor is it about a collision between said big rock and something else. Its the theory that all of the energy and matter was packed into a tiny tiny tiny space, perhaps created by the collapse of another universe (Big crunch idea, not a likely fate for our universe but potentially the fate of some previous one), that exploded outwards creating the universe we know today. Not being a scientist, the details on how they determined this happened are a bit fuzzy to me, but that is my understanding of the basics. The only collisions I can think of that you might be confusing the Big Bang with would be the creation of planets/creation of the moon. These involved big hunks of rock smashing into each other to make bigger hunks of rocks. You are right to a degree, however Science does not require faith. We do not know it yet, and so we do not make wild, impossible speculation about what it could be and call it fact without evidence. Science doesn’t do that. Faith is a term that can be applied strictly to religion; science is backed with fact, and what isn’t known is simply labeled as “not known yet,” The leap of faith religion requires is seeing things in this category and determining that a magical man done it. No faith in science, Proof, fact, hypothesis and the unknown.
Thanks for not being the typical religious twit who emails. Your religious views are always yours to hold in a private setting, and I respect that. I may disagree, but if it isn’t hurting any others, all the power to you. If you feel like joining me for a ceremonial bowl of pasta, I will be in my living room, practicing my religion.
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All the best.
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Cey
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It wasn’t a big rock, it was a meatball and His Noodly Goodness put it there. It was hit by a delicious ladleful of a rich garlicky marinara, garnished with a sprinkle of finely shredded parmesan cheese and a dash of ground parsley. Everybody knows that!
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Ah! that is the question. You are correct, niether religion nor science CAN answer that but my beef is that religion tries (and fails) to answer it. How? By saying God did it. Completely fails to explain where God came from except to say, very unsatisfactorily, that he is ‘eternal’. At least science will never give up on attempting to go back to the true beginning, which I agree the Big Bang cannot be. We’re slowly getting further back and maybe coming up with very original ideas as to how to test these theories.
You ask where the first big rock came from and what hit it.
You may be referring to the ’singularity’ postulated in the big bang theory, which contained all matter/energy until the moment of the ‘bang’. Of course big bang is only a soubricuet or nick name for an event assumed to have taken place approx 14 billion years ago, at which point ‘time’ began also. So it is probably not even an approachable question scientifically, as to what went before, because ‘nothing’ happened before. This therefore assumes that there is such a state as pure stasis where nothing happens, even time. One type of variation of this is to assume that the BB was only one of an infinite series of same events which lead to a slightly different type of universe for each event.
The problem with all these scenarios (including god) is that no end point is ever reached. This is all well and good because there is no reason why there should be either a beginning point or an end point. Such a scenario though requires an exceptance of infinity. Infinity is a concept that I don’t think the human mind can encompass either so we are back to square one where you have a choice of believing ‘God did it’, or be left forever wondering and puzzling about infinity. I’m of this type ! You are not ! QED
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THE FUCKING SPAGGETI MONSTROSITY!!!!!11
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I only hope that you are NOT a science teacher
RAmen
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GOLD!!!!! ARRRGGGGGGG!
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The arguement is this: Can we teach our children what we have observed to happen without adding on wild speculations to explain it?
That’s it in a sentence. ID says “Yeah all that evolution happened but it couldn’t happen by itself so an undetectable higher power did it.” Problem is that by any definition of science, the statement “it couldn’t happen by itself” is arrogant and baseless. It might be possible to get something from nothing under conditions we haven’t studied. There is nothing empowering anyone to dismiss it as impossible. Second, saying that some intelligence or power at work doesn’t tell us anything about the process. We don’t gain any understanding that we wouldn’t have otherwise. It has no scientific value.
If Christian children come home confused by evolution and their parents tell them “that’s how God did it”, that’s fine. No conflict. Enjoy your freedom of religeon. However if the teachers say “a god did it”, imagine the discussion I’ll have with my children.
When you mix science and religeon, both are weakened.
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Please, please tell me you are not a science teacher. I can’t believe that you’re any kind of teacher and believe that the big bang happened because two rocks hit together. Do yourself a favor and google big bang theory or at least visit the wikipedia article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang .
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If you come to the conclusion that there is an omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent deity in our universe, and said deity makes a point of being actively involved in the affairs of his creation, I don’t think you can truly say that anything ‘just happens.’ Every event down to the simplest chemical reaction would have to be either directly or indirectly ‘approved’ by the deity in order for it to happen. It is relevant to note that as time goes by and science progresses further, many mysterious, obscure phenomena that used to be attributed to Yahweh have been found to have a completely explicable, documentable cause, no god required. I suppose you could still say it’s Yahweh moving the atoms around, but why would you do that unless you had a belief you desperately wanted to prove to yourself?
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Hi,
Am feeling really happy to see a rational (I read it as meaningful) post from a religious person. You were totally right. Both of us have no clue about what was there before the Big Bang. But it does give the authority for religion to dictate anything it thinks as the cause and expect others to believe in the same without questioning it. This is where the problem begins. When we don’t know something, we should admit that we don’t know it and try to find it out and NOT fill up our ignorance with our imagination. We, evolutionists, have the guts to admit that we don’t know what was there before the Big Bang and we work on finding out that. But proponents of creationalism don’t posses that. What good is it going to make in summoning God to fill every gap which current human knowledge cannot explain? As a matter of fact, it will cause harm to just sit and do nothing saying God just created it. Do you think that Galileo was wrong in questioning the church regarding its Geo-Centric theory? Just imagine what would have happened had he not stood by his Helio-centric theory?
The point is this. It’s an easy task to call God to answer everything we don’t know. But it’s going to help our progress in no way. Actually it’s going to hinder our progress. I think there is no point in saying that the skin is brown because God wanted it to look brown. Such an explanation is empty and void and will take us nowhere.
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Hi,
Am feeling really happy to see a rational (I read it as meaningful) post from a religious person. You were totally right. Both of us have no clue about what was there before the Big Bang. But it does not give the authority for religion to dictate anything it thinks as the cause and expect others to believe in the same without questioning it. This is where the problem begins. When we don’t know something, we should admit that we don’t know it and try to find it out and NOT fill up our ignorance with our imagination. We, evolutionists, have the guts to admit that we don’t know what was there before the Big Bang and we work on finding out that. But proponents of creationalism don’t posses that. What good is it going to make in summoning God to fill every gap which current human knowledge cannot explain? As a matter of fact, it will cause harm to just sit and do nothing saying God just created it. Do you think that Galileo was wrong in questioning the church regarding its Geo-Centric theory? Just imagine what would have happened had he not stood by his Helio-centric theory?
The point is this. It’s an easy task to call God to answer everything we don’t know. But it’s going to help our progress in no way. Actually it’s going to hinder our progress. I think there is no point in saying that the skin is brown because God wanted it to look brown. Such an explanation is empty and void and will take us nowhere.
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We need an all intelligent, all powerful, supreme being to explain the existence of the first rock?
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Actually, the theory of the Big Bang says that in the beginning there was only an extremely dense ball of matter, not a rock. It exploded outward because it got too large and dense.
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Well with all due respect, if science can’t explain how something came from nothing, I don’t think that a myth of a supernatural being that pre-existed anything explains it one jot better. In fact to my mind it is far less likely and a parody of science. It just implies that the answer to anything you don’t know is to make it up rather than to bust your brain trying to find out. It is just a convenient cop-out.
Oh and by the way, science HAS explained for many years how something came from nothing in the early moments of the big bang. It was nothing to do with rocks hitting eachother, but a balance of probabilities with about one particle in a million failing to find it’s antiparticle and annihilate with it.
That’s about where my scientific knowledge ends, but I honestly have to say, if I had to choose between the idea of some god sitting there for millennia and then thinking up the universe and all in it, I’d really find it easier to believe it was all made by a flying spaghetti monster. While we’re taking wild and massively unlikely stabs at it with no rational basis at all, let’s do the job properly.
Oh and by the other way, that insect’s knee stuff was disproven long ago. That little feller left many traces of development and certainly didn’t pop into existence fully developed….sorry.
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tgilmer,
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Thanks for the opinion…I certainly hope you don’t teach science. Can you explain to me what you think “Big Bang” means? I’m totally confused by your mentioning of a “big rock” and “what hit it”…the Big Bang presumes a supermassive point in space infinitely small (think a black hole only much much bigger). Current physics is attempting to explain what occurred before the Big Bang via extensive experimentation (the latest of which is occuring underground under Switzerland and France this summer in a massive particle accelerator). Theoretical physics can accurately explain what the universe was like 0.000000000001 seconds after the Big Bang but not 0.0000000001 seconds before the Big Bang, but this will likely change with future research.
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Science does not presume “Faith.” My saying that research will likely yield further results is not faith that it will, it is founded on previous results and previous experimentation. Scientists do not have “faith” in their results, they have probability curves and detailed data analyses. Do you have “faith” that your plane will take off when you travel? Do you have “faith” that your headache will go away when you take aspirin? No…you have scientific evidence based on theory telling you that these things will (and do) happen.
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And yes, I can argue that evolution exisits and that’s a fact! Do you want to explain yourself a little bit more? All you state is the old, run-of-the-mill faith argument, something about a big rock and evolution is “just happening.” If you mean that evolution is a natural process that is run by the natural law of “survival of the fittest” (in reproductive terms), then yes, I agree with you, evolution is “just happening.” Listen, there is unbelievable evidence for evolution that you, as a teacher, should be aware of. The fossil record of both paleontology and archaeology, geological strata, Ar-Ar and U-Series dating techniques, genetic affiliation and scores more research areas have left no doubt that evolution occurs…the specifics behind how evolution operates in certain circumstances and the effects of natural vs. more specific types of sexual selection are realms of current research (as opposed to “does evolution happen”). By arguing the way you have you show your true ignorance in terms of the scientific field and current research. Please, read a bit more before taking such a strong stand against something you simply don’t understand.
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P.E.T.
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I agree, as you respect the belives of the children the rest of the world should respect the FSM!!
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Q: where did the first big rock come from and what hit it?
A: weelll….. there are some things that the fsm does deem indigestible. i would’ve suggested peptol-bismol.
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You’re a teacher?? I hope you only teach gym class – what the hell are you talking about with a big rock?? What hit it?? Are you fucking serious?? Yet another Christian with absolutely no knowlege of science besides what his pastor has told him, what a joke.
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Science can only explain so much(which actually is lot more than this commentator seems to understand), but the Bible and the Koran explain absolutely nothing. They simply illuminate the ignorance of the nomads of pre-historic Middle East.
Creationist dogma is like “The Groundhog Day” movie. You try to approach it with logic time and again, and the next day the same rubbish is peddled at you again. This is pretty boring.
Now if this person were trying to learn something, there would be better ways than to write to a satire website, don’t you think? Because as Genesis says, God Sayeth Let There Be Google, and Let There Be the Scientific American…
Scary to think what kind of people qualify as teachers these days.
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You said: “So, it’s faith in either God or Science”
Science is not a Faith, Please don’t confuse it as one.
Being a teacher (as you claim) I would think at some point you were taught the scientific method and should understand that Science in not a faith, but by your post I question if you are a teacher.
I know it’s hard for people of faith to understand some people just don’t have faith in anything, they just make choices based on the facts.
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I wish you had posted the school where you got your teaching degree so I could tranfer there. At my University they actually make us learn stuff.
And it gets even worse. Some of the class invove science.
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Boy, am I glad this person is not one of my kids’ teachers (not in Florida)! On second thought, however, did he/she (a) graduate college and (b) pass that licensing/certification exam? By god’s grace no doubt…
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Hello All, I have posted many times and read much of the hate mail that comes in. Like Bobby put it in the beginning this is not hate mail.
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Tgilmer has not been disrespectful to anyone on the site even with his / her misunderstanding of the Big Bang or with the belief in God. Personally I like science and don’t like the when people use “god did it” to answer questions. Nonetheless, they can believe what they want. With that in mind, I do not believe we need to succumb to making personal attacks on this person just because it is rare that profanity and personal attacks were not made against us.
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Let’s show what FSM is all about and not be rude unless they attack us first then we blow them out of the water with flying meatball bombs and spaghetti spears.
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RAmen!
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I was just about to ask, “Are you from Florida?”, but you went ahead and answered it for me!
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I think this question is very sad and shows how religion preys on ignorance and credulity. Worse than the fact this questioner thinks the scientific case rests on two rocks banging together is the fact that some religious leader will have implanted this silly notion and also will have gone to lengths to ensure that those who fall for it feel no need to ask questions and find out the real facts.
You might expect questions like this in really primitive areas of the world, but in America? And you let these people vote? Now you understand why the Arab countries don’t let their people vote and long may it remain so.
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The big bang wasn’t even an “explosion”, but a rapid expansion of space and time. There was no rock involved whatsoever. At least you accept Evolution, though, and that it doesn’t ‘just happen’. It is guided by natural selection and mutation.
Here’s an article on The Big Bang. http://www.umich.edu/~gs265/bigbang.htm
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I’m not sure what the Bible explains “better” than science. If by “better,” you mean that it is “easier” to understand that you will exist beyond death rather than accept your own mortality, yeah, I guess that is better in a sense (wishful thinking). It’s a good thing for Bible thumpers that there is no standard of proof – just an arbitrary inclusion to the bible throughout the centuries by superstitious men and equally harrowing interpretations. I hate it when science moves so slowly just because it has to demand repeatability, peer review, causality and all that nonsense!
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The big bang came from a one-dimensional point in a one-dimensional universe…not some floating rock.
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Perhaps you should read up on the current research concerning matter and anti-matter, dark matter and the new research that talks about parallel universes and how they might have something to do with the big bang.
Also you make the oldest mistake in the book by saying science doesn’t explain how the big bang happened. So far science can’t explain this but who knows what the future will bring? Scientific breaktrhoughs are being made everyday.
Finally I want to ask you this: why is it that atheists and rationalists always have to prove their point? Why don’t religious people come forth wit real scientific proof in stead of always passing the buck?
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I would not be so insulted had henderob stated “So, it’s faith in either God or Science or the Spaghetti Monster.” How dare he leave out such a reasonable explaination of the Universe.
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BTW: There is no “before” in Big Bang theory. Time did not exist. No did space for that matter. Actually using the verb “did” doesn’t even apply here. There was not “past” in which something “did” or “did not” happen. There is no “pre-Universe” nor is such a concept necessary to explain the current universe. One really has to let go of such irrelevant and unnecessary requirements such as causality.
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I’m standing outside on a warm summer day. Not a leaf is stirring but the clouds high up in the sky are moving. Must be the hand of God. Yeah. Right. I don’t know how it happened so God must have done it. Uh huh. Well I don’t know how the universe came into existence either but I do know that wind pushes clouds and doesn’t always blow in the same place. You’re a teacher, are you? I’m a part time music teacher and although it isn’t one of the sciences I still have to know everything about whatever it is I am teaching that day so that when one of my students asks a question I have all the information possible to help them. They want facts not “God did its”. A good rule of thumb is, “Study first, talk later.”
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Well, it’s nice to have such a polite and sensible mail, isn’t it?
But the Big Bang, as I recall from my yr 10 physics class, wasn’t anything to do with rocks. It was a sudden appearance of energy. Not a hugely important point, but, you know, could be significant in the long run.
Apart from that, I totally agree. It needed saying. We believe in science, just as Christians believe in God. It’s just a more widespread, rationally-based belief. Science may be wrong. The thing is, SCIENTISTS accept that. It just doesn’t really filter through to the masses that they do.
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It was not a “big rock”, silly! It was a Heavenly Meatball, snorted from the Divine Nostril of the Great FSM himself! And as for what hit it, well, that’s obvious too — it was the Hammer of Thor, which is just one of the many sub-manifestations of the Divine Noodly One, to make himself more comprehensible to the feeble minds of men.
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I will tell you exactly where the Atom that exploded into the universe came from and how it all happened after you tell me this.
.
If god is Omnipotent was always and will always be here, If he created the universe and light and time and matter, is the only God no others around. Then what was God doing before he created the universe? Was he in a Void with no light, matter or time? Was he sitting around for Billions of years and then thought I think I’ll make a universe so massive and only populate 1 of 8 planets around 1 star of 200 billion stars in a galaxy of 100 billion other galaxies. I will put people on that 1 planet and have them worship me or I will send them to burn for all eternity after they die. If they don’t follow me I will flood the planet killing them all and start over if needed.
.
I could go on and on if needed but my point is made. What sounds more likely? A bored omnipotent savage being creating all that we see. Or that the universe is just the result of an (as of yet) unexplainable Atom that exploded outward and the laws of physics and gravity?
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HEY MARK! Yes, there was time. M-theory honey. Google it! Shit is fascinating.
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Dear Tgilmer, dear Brother (becaus we are all Brothers, by the Grace of th Flying Spaghetti Monster),
Please, don’t be offended by the messages you read before this one. A lot of atheist pretend they are Pastafarian, but few of them are at last. They are on the way, hopefully, even if the talk science and logic and bla bla bla.
.
I’m happy to share with you some points so we can both teach Creationism in schools.
.
1. Yes, we have to make believe that science is a faith. You are right about this and once we made clear that scientific theories are only theories, we can place our systems of beliefs at the same rank. This is the first dialectical point.
.
2. Yes, we have to mark all the unknown points left by science. Only religious systems are complete and can explain everything. So the lacks in scientific systems proof its insufficiency. This is the second dialectical point.
.
3. Yes, we have to be kind and polite with others, so they listen to us… (But we both know it’s only a tactic. Hé hé…)
.
Using this three points, you and us will be able at last to open the schools’ doors. But, at the very end, children will all be Pastafarian, because our religion is the coolest one.
RAmen
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There’s some “e” missing in the last message, because I have some reserve in writing this letter. “E”volution is not my favorite word, even if, like you, I can say “who can argue that evolution exists?” to soften my opponents.
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I don’t know how the universe was created, so I’m going to asume some dude made it all in under a week.
I don’t what 436574365800143 + 46385454689 X 121233480987 / 543629147584369 – 54643565 equals so I’m going to asume it equals the colour green.
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Oh and BTW …. Science may not have a full explanation yet, but by measuring the expansions of the universe and such we can show that it is moving from a center…singularity if you will…. i work at a national laboratory … they work on this stuff all the time…i recently attended a seminar speaking of the very way the are able to measure this stuff.
Its really amazing the measurable quantities that pint to the Big Bang theory, what measurable quantities point to intelligent design?
Oh thats right, none.
So I ask you what would you teach children about the theory …. ” hey a intelligent designer [god] created everything …hard for text book companies to make much money off that. Now in a theology class sure…. but science… c’mon.
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A…….big………rock?!?!?!?!?!I will pay you $50,000 if you can find a credible physicist who tells you the big bang was “rocks bashing together”. The best explanation for the big bang is a sudden increase in spacetime.Sure at the moment no one knows what caused it, but you are setting up a false dichotomy by saying that since I can’t prove your theory,yours is right. We KNOW the universe is expanding (due to red/blue shift in light etc. etc.).And science expands the vast knowledge our civilisation holds, but can you give me one advancment credited to your dark age mythology in the last hundred years???I thought not.
RAmen brothers
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436574365800143 + 46385454689 X 121233480987 / 543629147584369 – 54643565
= 97315142034.2302318648373678412
97315142034.2302318648373678412 = *google Search* = NOTHING!
I believe now that
97315142034.2302318648373678412
= the beginning time before the universe
and
97315142034.2302318648373678412 + 1
= life
care to prove me wrong?
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1. I assume you have got the point that the bang didn’t involve rocks?
2. How about that we, humans, and everything else are just accidents, lucky ones. We aren’t the point of anything, religions are human centred ego trips, not deity centred.
3. Which leads to: but if the omnipotent being is so bloody omnipotent why do something as messy as evolution in order to create his chosen ones? Why not just create them, fully formed? Why create and make extinct thousands or millions of other species along the way?
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flying spaghetti monster-damn! big rocks?! i hope you are a gym teacher! science explains so many things the bible tries to explain. you are right about evolution though. i guess back in the biblical days bats were birds and whales were fish like the bible says and they “evolved” into mammals. hahaha “just happening”, how eloquent!
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There was no big bang. Read the Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster and you shall see.
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Perhaps it would benefit you to read up on logical fallacies for the main reason that your argument is a classic example of the argument from ignorance. AKA argument by lack of imagination, is a logical fallacy in which it is claimed that a premise is true only because it has not been proven false or is only false because it has not been proven true.
Son Of Law Herder Of Sheep,
Ramen
The section below was taken out of context from The Book Of Intellectual Constipation as known only to The Church Of The Flying Spaghetti Monster Of Latter Day Pirates (LDP)
I prophet Son Of Law Herder Of Sheep provide divine revelation through the clumsiness of The Spaghetti Monster (TFSM), Have translated The Book Of Intellectual Constipation from golden toilet tissue. Which I discovered after getting drunk and running naked through rose bushes wrapped with barbed wire. Near death I came upon a clearing where I saw an intense noodley light I moved slowly toward the light and in one last drunk attempt peed into the light. I then stopped mid stream noticing that the light seemed agitated by my bodily desires, and it was at that moment the flying spaghetti monster appeared to me. In what sounded like a hollow queiff TFSM said unto me “yo baby when am I getting in them Lane Bryants?” Then in a menstrual moment of clarity I retorted unto TFSM “you are not getting in these pants until you start paying child support”
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i am so amazed at how many ‘atheists’ and ‘agnostics’ get pissed off at ‘our little theory’ of which,
a force, call it god or whatever, had a hand in creating the universe. science is often wrong, just as doctors are. Doctors go to school for many years to get a degree. They diagnose patients, prescribe treatment, and guess what? plenty of misdiagnosis’ are made yet often they are so arrogant when confronted with opposing belief systems like alternative medicine, which in many cases compliment the body’s own healing processes. do all herbs work for everone? no. do naturopaths make mistakes?most likely. I don’t blame people for being alienated by the church, because i myself have had plenty of bad experiences with over zealous ministers and being humiliated. i think the beauty of science of faith is that sometimes they may come to a crossroads. other times are at extremes.
we choose the way of faith, because it has served us well, does it mean we never use science? of course not.
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How about,,,
We did not evolve…. we arrived.
There is no space…… The earth we supposidly live on would implode – giving that dark matter tears apart gasses and liquids,, so size being irrellevant as space is infinate,, the earths atmosphere would not last under the rules of space as we know them.
The moon is closer to the sun than earth…. Why is it not recorded as being hotter than 121 degrees?
Evolution is a far fetched estimate…. Different races of people can breed, however do not look like and function in exactly the same way. Physically and mentally.
If every satelite of a planet has no atmosphere….. then why does Earth have an atmosphere as it is a satelite of the sun?
The Moon rovolves around the Earth and they both revolve around the Sun….. but is it possible the solar systems if they really exist aren’t moving as a unit and remaining in the order they are currently in,, for example, you can move somthing physical on Earth and the particles stay together for example your finger,,
If we had not of introduced religeon and gods…. then man would be equal with man and not have the concept of higher powers and most likely would respect other creatures and people as they should do. The reliability of a higher power is empowering belief that being powerful is possible and that control and manipulation is correct and a successful way to rule a planet.
If God loves all of his/her children….. then why would you go to hell for not believing?
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Try to understand Dawkin’s “God Delusion” Chapter 3
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If you are a teacher, then I am extremely grateful that I am not American. Please please tell me you are not a science teacher!
Your level of ignorance towards even the basics of popular scientific theories is staggering. I pray to the FSM for your poor students.
RAmen.
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tgilmer: Thank you so very much for posting a polite, readable, and relatively reasonable post. I say relatively because, as you already know if you have done much reading from the Hate Mail bag, most of what we see is nothing like this. If you are following the thread (this is the first time I’ve posted before reading a thread completely, it’s getting late), please forgive those among us, Pastafarians or not, who have responded a bit more, well, vigorously than you might have anticipated. We’re just not used to people who seem sincerely willing to discuss viewpoints reasonably, differing though they may.
…
I hope you have followed the thread (Bobby: is it clear to original writers that the threads ensue?), though it must have been difficult at times. You stated clearly early in your post that you don’t feel Christianity (presumably referring in this context to ID) should be forced into the classroom. Thank you, that is all Bobby originally asked for, albeit in what most of us feel was hilariously funny parody form. Had your post ended there the thread might not have been, if my quick review is correct, as vigorous as it was.
…
In any case, thank you for at least implying a willingness to entertain our points of view, however much you may feel they differ with yours.
…
It’s true that science is incomplete and constantly being revised to fit new evidence, and the Big Bang is as inexplicable to me as it is to you. It is, though, a scientific ‘belief’ that best fits the observable evidence, is subject to revision as new facts come in, and is not based on faith.
…
There are many Hate Mail posters we wish would go away, or at least STFU. I hope you will stay and continue to learn why we say what we do, and please contribute responses in the manner and spirit of your original post. We aren’t likely to agree with everything you say, but perhaps we can come to understand a little better why it is you say it. Thanks again.
…
As for anything else: The Flying Spaghetti Monster said it, I believe it, and that settles it! …. RAmen.
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Thank you for being polite. And instead of replying with 5-6 paragraphs respectfully expressing my opinion in regards to yours…I will just ask that you read the post right above mine…for i could not have expressed mine any better.
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What is the contrast between the following two interrogative sentences?
1. Why did you come late?
2. Why you came late ?
Kind Regards,
Mirwais
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They never said the universe came from nothing!! What kind of teacher are you that you have half the facts from the side you don’t want to believe and all of them for the side you are on. Is it really that hard to accept that the universe was always here and we were just lucky enough to evolve this time through the cycle. There is more evidence of a big bang and the big crunch then there is of god. The universes has been here longer than us. I guess the dinosaurs were just a reptile zoo for god that he got bored with and made his human zoo. How is it God doesn’t mention dinosaurs to anyone? What was the point of creating them just to kill them off where is the intelligence there?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_crunch
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_bang
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Quote “Christians can’t explain when or how God began.”
Let me get this straight. Life on earth is too complex to have just happened. Therefore it must have been created by an intelligent sentient being. Has this being that created life, simply always existed? Or was our creator, similarly to us, created by a higher being? If you choose to believe the former, then you are contradicting your belief in ID. How can we be too complex to just happen, when our even more complex creator did exactly that? On the other hand, if you believe our god was created by a higher god, and that god in turn by a higher god Where did the first god come from?
The big bang theory/theory of evolution does not explain everything.
BUT
The argument for ID is in contradiction of itself.
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Yeah, it’s like this:
The IDer says: A tornado blowing through a junkyard won’t assemble a 747.
But how, then, can that tornado blow through a junkyard and assemble a factory and some engineers who in turn assemble a 747?
Does not make no sense at all ;-)
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How about this — where did god come from? Who put him/her/it in the universe? I say it was the FSM!!! As Marx (Karl, not Groucho) said, “Religion is the opiate of the people.” When people couldn’t understand nor explain their circumstances and surroundings due to a lack of scientific evidence, they invented what, at the the time, seemed like a plausible explanation. What terrifies me is that despite all of the evidence and information that we have now, people continue to believe in these fairy tales that were designed to frighten people into behaving the way those in charge thought that they should. So much for superior life forms!
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This guy is entirely correct in his beliefs about not forcing religion on others. He knows what we’re doing here and he understands what we’re getting at, or at least what point Henderson was getting at. Don’t berate him, he is entitled to his beliefs, however wrong we believe they might be, they are HIS beliefs and as such are completely independant of the facts as we might see them. Agree or disagree, but logic is what sets us apart from the rest, so think logically here and do our best to convince him otherwise. Its his choice if he wants to prostrate himself at the feet of some superior being, for the comfort of an afterlife or whatever, we may not agree with it but thats just us. If you dont have anything calm, collected, and logical to say, go play with the monkeys.
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I like this person, we should invite he or she out to dinner.
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“All I know is that science can only explain so much and so does the bible”. Actually, no, the bible doesn’t explain a whole lot, and much of what it says has been disproven or can’t be verified through research. Things like evolution and the Big Bang can be at least inferred through observations.
Now, as to the universe starting from nothing; maybe it always existed, and the cosmic egg which flew apart in the Big Bang condesnsed from an earlier universe. Or maybe if we look at the laws of entrophy you can actually envision a “positive” and a “negative” splitting out from “nothing”, just as +1 and -1 = 0.
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P.S. But, tgilmer, thank you for the well-written letter. It’s nice not to be called a degenerate or be condemned to hell for a change. May the FSM touch you with his Noodly Appendage – pesto be upon him.
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At least this one can write.
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Even though this one doesn’t seem as bad as some of the others for some reason it still had me chuckling to myself on and off for like 3 days.
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This is a false dilemma. The alternatives are not creation versus big bang. There are an entire spectrum of possible beliefs and the skeptical option is also open. Given the relevant evidence, e.g. the problem of evil, the inordinant number of specimens of ‘design’ flaws, etc… It seems problematic for many to believe in a benevolent, omniscient, etc… creator. As for me the Greek conception of a bunch of finite, and yet very powerful deities who are at best ambivalent strikes me as more believable. But this seems highly implausible as well.
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This guy is a teacher? That is a scary thought.
FYI: the big bang was not two rocks banging together
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jason said:”FYI: the big bang was not two rocks banging together”
Har har harr! XD Thanks for that comment, matey!
Arr, glad it made me that this lubber is at least intelligible.
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HIS NOODELY APENDAGE WILL BE DISCOVERED BY ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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@Nick
cant you actually reply to the post?
@others
The big bang still doesnt work since it defies the laws of thermodynamics
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You present a unique point of view. You also don’t hate or criticize. You’ve got my respect.
RAmen
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QUOTE: First, even if there was a “Big Bang” where did the first big rock come from and what hit it?
Can anyone imagine contemplating this question?
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Atoms, particles and molecules were the first. They joined to form space materials over millions of years.
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The beauty of science is it’s fallibility. Everything is a theory until it’s proven to a certain extent to gain merit. Or something like that.
Anyway, the problem with religion in general is that no one will ever say that their religion is theory. They consider that an insult. They consider their religion as fact. And that, in fact, is a flaw.
Pass the meatball.
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once again,
his noodly appendage will be discovered by all.
i met a pirate the other day, who just HAPPENED to have a birthmark in the shape of HIM
RAMEN
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First, I must apologize for my english, It isn’t my natural language.
Second, I mus apologize If I repeat something that other Pastafarian brother/sister answered before. There are a lot of answers and is late to read all.
This person, even wrong, has a very good perk. He/she doesn’t want to inocculate his/hers beliefs in the young. I belive that religion must be far far away from the youths. Not because I think is harmful (I do), Its just because I belive men and women must have the criticism and experience enough to see how is the world made and then choose theyr religion, all the false ones or the true path of his noodly appendage.
But, this person makes a BIG mistake. Compares a book of legends with the whole science. Sorry, but you are wrong. The science explains how the world “works”, the Holy books doesnt. I know some jibbyjabba from the belivers that try to point some ambiguous versicles as “good old science”. Please, don’t. It only makes you look more silly.
Science makes a long way from nothing to explain the whole creation, trough thermodinamics, gravitation, nuclear forces… and it can be proved. Holy books only say “The light is made”.
Science says: “we don’t know YET how the universe happened”
Religion says: “We know how it happens, it was created. End of discussion”.
If we take the religious way… why research more?
And also… IF WE HAVE TAKEN the religious explanation for some of the previous misterys of mankind… maybe we still in the Middle ages.
When you have all the answers, you don’t need to continue thinking. And this is horrible.
Also, your base point is wrong too.
I’ts a common mistake.
Question: “What was before the big bang?”
Answer: There is no “before” time and space creates with big bang. The question is wrong “per se”.
Yeah, I know it’s fucking weird, but if we are taking the base knowledge of the expanding universe, space was a singularity in the begining… and time creates then.
I have problems to underestand that too. I’ts like the freaking stuff of the 12 dimensions in unification theory, goes aganist all our perception of universe. MUST be one “before”. But the big brains of physics that answered me told me that.
Of course they must be wrong, that’s the good part of science, I don’t have to belive. Nobody was there, we are ignorant.
You call your ignorance “god”.
I call it by it’s name: ignorance.
Why you try to find god behind all the “uncharted” areas of knowledge?
God was the explanation to day and night in the birth of humanity. He losses his place when we underestand the movement of the sun. And he has been ejected from the other areas, medicine, electricity, cosmology… why god must be behind the “last” frontier if he hasn’t been in the previous?
Have the courage to face we are alone, nobody is gonna judge us, nobody is gonna save us. Our life is so precious and short to waste it giving power to the ones that created those myths. Go outside, help your fellows, teach them to love the life and live in harmony with others. If you realize, is not too far of Christ ways.
Sorry if I make somebody yawns.
All Hails the FSM.
Ramen and love to all.
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First, even if there was a “Big Bang” where did the first big rock come from and what hit it?
Technically there wasn’t a collision of ‘big rocks’ …. it was the explosion of an atome that created the universe . Just like the sun , the power of the explosion keep the universe exaclty the same , but each second the power realeased by this explosion is decreasing and returning to the primary atome , ( finally you can say that just like the sun its an explosion of atomes that takes millions of years to implose and regain its primary form ) ….
That’s the exact thesis of the big bang ….more credible than the fact that Adam and Eve had 2 boys …. one killed by the other …. and no more kids …. or have they ? That would me some incest … oh an Noe too …. haven’t he , his wife and son have been the lone survivors of the human race …. again some incest to repeuplate the world …. seriously i personnally prefer putting my faith in the mighty FSM then in a god that forced us in the past to commit incest to repeuplate the world after he created and flooded it …. not you ?
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No big rock, just an expanding singularity. Stephen Hawking; have you read his stuff?
However, well done. Peaceful questioning is the way forwards, and I salute you for it.
PIRATICAL SALUTE!
RAmen to that.
TS-W
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Science Fail.
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Fantastic! It is interesting that people who know only religion will not accept science, but those who understand science are not afraid of accepting religion. Religion, historicaly, has been a way to answer complex questions. Many of which we know now, such as why it rains. A person would look foolish to say the world is flat when I can prove it is round.
If the Gospel is the supposed truth and there is no evidence to support it, then reproductions (copies) of the bible are not valid. Only the original text would be valid. Everytime it is translated, copied, modified, or otherwise manipulated it is no longer the truth, since there is no proof for the original one anyway. Wasn’t the Bible written by humans in the 7th century? How did they conduct their research? There were no libraries or internet, there weren’t even bathrooms during that time. People lived in caves for crying out loud!
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@150 pasta lover
sure there was bathrooms back then,but it was pretty much only the ones who wrote the bible that had access to them
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I don’t have a deep knowledge of the Big Bang Theory, but I was always under the impression that it happened because of an energy buildup and not two rocks hitting each other…
Maybe I’m wrong?
Like I said, I don’t know much about it.
But thank you for the coherent and respectful message. We all appreciate it :]
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He is a good guy, who stated his opinion in a calm manner, and didn’t swear once. This is quite nice actually.
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Instead of religion and science being mutually exclusive, why can’t I believe in a God that used an accelerated form of evolution to create the animal species we know today? Maybe, to create the universe, including earth, He used some sort of cosmic explosion. Just thoughts.
Agape Love,
Daniel
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Good letter my friend, good letter indeed. Evolution does exist, i agree with you on that and don’t think anyone in their right mind can argue otherwise. However, the main difference between creationists and evolutionists is to what EXTENT evolution took place. For example, its been proven that when two creatures mate they both give away about half of their genetic material. And if the child loses some of the DNA in the process (e.g. mom has 123 dad has 124 baby has 134 and hence loses dna 2) then strange things can be born due to this loss of genetic information(called specialization of genes). Evolutionists argue that a creature bred out far enough could just keep changing until they macro-evolve(gains DNA). However if a species continues to breed out it will eventually be weaker and have a worse immune system then a creature with a lot of DNA. Since animals can only gain new DNA(necessary for things such a fish growing feet/proto feet) through random mutation(beneficial mutations are 1 in 1000 or more) its highly unlikely evolution happened as evolutions say it did. Its possible that a wolf is the ancestor of the dog, just as the dog is the ancestor of the poodle. However its near impossible that a species could experience all the required beneficial mutations to acquire such a huge change as a fish to a frog or a monkey to a man. So you see, God created everything as is, and small changes helped the creatures adapt. And its because they have that mild adapting ability that Creation is so perfect. However, to assume that evolution is the cause of Creation instead of a feature of Creation is both blasphemous and unscientific.
Also, i think Christians should spread the faith and knowledge we have because it not only allows people salvation, but also make them smarter. God is the Creator, He has made Creation 6000 years ago and micro evolution cannot cause macro evolution. Amen.
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Who says there was a Big Bang? The Universe is eternal and simply has always existed.
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First: thank you very much, this is the only non-hate mail I’ve seen on this site.
Second: Science admits when an idea is theory or proven fact, and in the case of theories criticism and questioning are good things. However, when the theory of religion appears, criticism and questioning are unheard of.
Third: If you could prove the “Lord” to me I pray every night for his forgiveness. But I wouldn’t get it because be saying two words “prove it” my “soul” is “damned for all eternity to flaming pits of hell”
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I have three answers to your quandry, Tgilmer.
1; Possibly, it is impossible to know. Nothing could have EVER been recorded BEFORE there was anything.
2; Energy converted to matter. It should be possible.
3; The universe is infinite, and has no start or end.
4; A giant, invisible space, omnipotent and omniscient being decided that it was worthwhile to spend the 16 billion years required to shape the universe so that ONE SPECIES, and YOU ALONE were important enough for this omnipotent’s beings time. Of course, this leads to the question; Whence did this noodly being come from? Why, from the great space-sailing pirate ship of course!
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You believe in intelligent design?
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I’m not sure there was a “big rock” that caused the big bang, more energy, but the simple answer is this:
His divine Noodlelyness The Flying Spaghetti Monster decided to create a “big rock”. That or he has falsely implanted that information in order to hide his own awesomeness in creating all.
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A. creation IS just happening
B. It wasn’t a big rock.
Thank you and have a nice day.
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@ Christian #155
The concept of blasphemy is not one that occurs to many atheists I would have thought. You talk about Intelligent Design as if it is a fact, which is one of the fatal flaws in Christian argument. Too many of you presume to know things for certain. Science is about theories with evidence behind them, of which Evolution is one. It would be foolish to presume that evolution as we know it is a certain thing that actually happened, rather we see it as a very, very likely way in which the biodiversity of this planet has become so rich. This still does not make it 100% certain. The ‘huge change’ which you say must have taken place between apes and humans is not as huge as you think. We are remarkably similar in alot of ways. What you have to remember is that this process of mutations and natural selection has been going on for billions and billions of years. Plenty of time for these changes to take place when you think about it. Humans just can’t grasp the concept of such a huge timescale, and so they assume these changes are impossible. Intelligent design is a parasite that feeds off true science. It makes me sad to think that potentially every major scientific discovery to do with creation and life just gets sucked up, processed and churned out again by religions to try and make their fairy tales more realistic. And also, your claim that introducing Christianity to people makes them smarter is really quite short-sighted. All it does is teach them to shrug their shoulders and ignore reason.
May his Noodliness touch you with his almighty appendage.
rAmen.
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