1. Do you know any building that did not have a builder? Yes? No?
2. Do you know any painting that did not have a painter? Yes? No?
3. Do you know any car that did not have a maker? Yes? No?
If you answered “Yes” to any of those statements… please give details:______________________…
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An elaborate spoof on Intelligent Design, The Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster is neither too elaborate nor too spoofy to succeed in nailing the fallacies of ID. It's even wackier than Jonathan Swift's suggestion that the Irish eat their children as a way to keep them from being a burden, and it may offend just as many people, but Henderson, described elsewhere as a 25-year-old "out-of-work physics major," puts satire to the same serious use that Swift did. Oh, yes, it is very funny. -- Scientific American
Misc.
But I do know of a clock without a clockmaker. The Dangerous Intersection blog attacked Paley’s argument with a computer program that “shook” a box full of watch parts repeatedly until they formed themselves into a clock.
The video is fascinating to watch (no pun intended, but welcomed nonetheless) and is an elegant and effective refutation.
http://dangerousintersection.org/2008/03/12/how-clock-parts-can-assemble-themselves-into-a-functioning-clock/
1. Did Zeus turn out to be real? Yes/No
2. Did Odin turn out to be real? Yes/No
3. Did Quetzalcoatl turn out to be real? Yes/No
If you answered “Yes” to any of those statements… please give details:_____________________
If god created the universe, what created god?
Yes, we know these things were designed. They cannot evolve because they do not reproduce with some variation under natural selection. If you sited living creatures I could answer no there is no creator. But since I know from documentation, common knowledge, and the fact that I see buildings being designed, that they have a designer. There is proof for that. But sadly, there is no proof for religion (aside from FSM of course.)
Answer to all three questions- Yes.
Building with no builder: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/newsnight/3135710.stm
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Painting with no painter was a tough one, but then i thought of modern art- the likes of Jackson Pollock, and to a more relevant extent that of Hermann Nitsch. the works of these two “artists” are largely composed of paint splattered on a canvass.
For every person who has ever knocked over an open tin of paint, a painting with no painter(just a knock-overer) has been produced.
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Car with no maker appeared difficult, but in fact most modern cars are made by production line machinery.
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There’s really little more i can say…
@Henderob
I’m glad to see that you compare religion to other man-made things like painting and buildings, that seems very reasonable.
Buildings and religions are very alike; thought up, designed and built by mankind for mankind to provide shelter. Whether buildings and religions should have the same rights, I wonder….
By the way, if God (Allah, FSM) is behind everything, who’s behind God?
Hail to his Noodliness
Someone probably pointed this out already but…all you have “proven” is that things that have been created have a creator. This would only apply to the universe if you could prove it was created by something. In order to decide that the universe was created by some sort of being, you would need both another universe that created by some sort of being and a universe that was not created by a being to compare it to.
these are all man made things of corse there is a maker of them asking these questions is like who created the bmws or the twin towers and the the painting on the sixteen chapel. we know they where created by people but some people may not know the famous painter or designer. if you look them up on google you will find his or her name. the where not created by the same person. the macbook is ad example too steve jobs.
R.A.S.
Ok, i have heard this argument for a fucking billion times.
Do buildings/paintings/cars reproduce? Yes?No?
If buildings/paintings/cars cannot reproduce then can they be subject to natural selection in which the best adapted OFFSPRING live and PASS ON their genes to the NEXT GENERATION?Yes?No?
If you answered yes please explain…
That argument never converted anyone, it never made anyone stop and think, it never made anyone question their beliefs. All it did was make a bunch of atheists laugh their asses off at creationism, and it still does. I think people are not things like buildings/paintings/cars and that they are more important. So you say people are things, i say they are animals (the most advanced and smartest animals on the face of the fucking planet), which is worse?
If you answered things….. PLEASE EXPLAIN!!!!!
Please read what we say when we tell you your argument doesnt work!!!!! I have seen this particular one on this site a few times already, and i still come here.
The thing that really gets me about this type of hate mail is the frame it posits. In this mail, the author is saying he’ll be the judge and it is imcumbent on us to PROVE IT TO HIM TO HIS SATISFACTTION OR IT ISN’T TRUE. That is exactly the frame that fundamentalists employ from their pulpits when they proclaim evolutions is “only a theory” and creationism is “science”.
While I would never want to in any way restrict free speech, these kind of tactics employed by these unprincipled televangelist types underscore the need for education in critical thinking and the art and psychology of persuasion in our schools. These assholes can only get away with this shit because of the dismal state of public education in our country. When you have a populace that does not know how to evaluate what they are being told, especially by people who have a lot to gain by lying and misrepresenting the truth, you get people who think lik the author of this missive.
You also get a hard core 30% who think Bush and Cheney (the torturer) are doing a great job. Nuff ced.
nice try, but its all been said and debunked already. you must have thought that you sounded pretty bad ass quoting Ray Comfort. better luck next time, maybe some original thoughts too.
Dear Pastafarians,
Basil Baxter Loves You.
It is, in Basil Baxter’s humble opinion, fultile to argue with Christians. They have their One True Friend, and they are sticking by him even though even the early Romans saw him for the tree-hugging hippy he was and made him hug a tree all of his own for three days.
See:
http://www.basilbaxter.com/42/world-religions-christianity/
And for good measure:
http://www.basilbaxter.com/54/world-religions-pastafarianism/
http://www.basilbaxter.com/53/basil-baxter-has-dinner/
The thing is, the really important thing is, that there is but one One True Friend, and since your FSM was quite tasty, Basil Baxter humbly proposes himself as the most likely candidate. The one great advantage is that youcan do away with the floppy boots and false hooks. And instead of saying ‘Arr’ at Christians, you can simply kill them and get it over with.
@ Sarah April 11 908 pm,
I loved your post!
And to answer your question, you CAN bred your house and car as long as it is a female house and a male car. Sadly, most of the motor-homes produced by this process are stillborn - they lack an engine and have a severly retarted suspension. (this is because houses have 50 cromosomes, and cars have only 48.) So you will still need to buy and install an engine. Once you do this, the motor-home will likely worship you as its creator and swear that you have always just existed.
I’m gettin a big laugh out of the outrage some Americans are demonstrating toward having the Olympic torchbearer on our soil becuase the games will be played in Beijing, and the Chinese are currently involved in a conflict with Tibetan nationalists that involves human rights abuses.
Consider this comes against a backdrop in which ABC News is reporting that an Executive committee Chaired by Condoleeza Rice and having as its principals Dick Cheney, George Tanant, Colin Powell, Donald Rumsfeld and John Ashcroft appoved on a case by case basis “enhanced interrogation techniques” involving “slapping, sleep deprivation, waterboarding”being used on suspected Al Queda operatives at Abu Graib and Guantanomo. In short, the highest levels of our government apporved torture, as a program, in spite of thier denials at the time. Only it wasn’t torture because they had the Dept of Justice define torture to be nothing short of treatment which causes “organ failure.” Needless you won’t find that definition in either Meriam Webster or Blacks Law Dictionary.
Needless to say this gives us a window on the arrogance and sense of entitlement of this radical right wing “neo-con” administration. They are in effect telling the world that not only torure, but also truth is what they say it is, and no one else has a say. They are the “deciders and the definers”. But what can we expect when these guys came to power on the strength of a rigged and stolen election.
The real mind boggler here is the cravenness of the democratic opposition, you will hear the phrase “war crimes” bandied about on the blogosphere and on networks like MSNBC by Olberman and Mathews, but where else do you hear it? Where are the Fullbright and Ervin hearings of this generation? Where is the talk of impeachment? Are the Dems so intent on winning in November that they will overlook obvious high crimes and misdemeanors? And what of the Democratic Presidential candidates? Why are they silent, why isn’t this conduct being brought forth as an issue? What would the Bush Cheney administation have to have been proved guilty of before the candidates talk about bringing them to justice as the criminals they so apparantly are?
I can’t believe it, but it appears that the Bush-Cheney and all their people will skate into history with a free pass. By the way, expect that as the last official act of his administation, Bush gives free absolute and unconditional pardons to everyone and I mean everyone: Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, Wolfowitz, Patrues, Pearl, Tenant, and all their deputies, putting everyone beyond the reach of legal accountability. Except, maybe, the Hague. They better watch where they travel after 2009.
Which brings us back to the the issue of moral authority. How can the US place posit itself as a center of moral authority after the Bush administation, particularly if none of the officials of that administation are ever held accountable for their crimes. Answer, the US has surrendered its claim to be a center of moral authority, probably for the balance of our lifetimes.
Know what other institution has surrendered its claim? The Catholic Church. It’s elected an ex-Nazi pope. Moreover, this guy insructed his Bishops to delay release of any information regarding sexual abuse of children until after the statute of limitations expired in the relevant jurisdiction. Some moral authority. Guess this is another thing to add to the Vatican’s financial shenanigans in the ’80’s and its collaboration with the fascists and Nazi’s in the 20’s, 30’s, 40’s, as well as its role in helping Nazi war criminals escape justice by supplying the likes of Eichman with Vatican passports.
So these are the principal moral authorities in the world today, huh? WTF!
In his book Treatise on Human Nature (1740), David Hume proved conclusively that causality is a function of the mind - causality does not exist in what we call the “external world” or the “objective world”, it exists only in the mind. Immanuel Kant and others build on this observation and showed that reality is purely a construct of the mind.
The theory of ‘intelligent design’ and of the ‘prime mover’ are based on the mistaken belief that causality is a principle of nature, of the “external world”.
But as there is no such thing as “objective reality”, there cannot be a “prime mover” or “intelligent design”.
We have known this since 1740, yet people still believe in intelligent design.
And if there was intelligent design, would it have designed as world as messed up as this?
Guys, it is easy:
“No, I do not know of any man-made thing that did not have a maker. Do you? Yes/No”
|+|Gothic_Pink|+| said, “I’m all FSMism but has anyone noticed that these post and most other articles are a little one sided? I mean i’m as antichristian/religion as the next Pastafarian but still, you can’t argue with a group that gives no feedback? This is all just mindless reaffirmation of each other isn’t it?”
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There has been some feedback (Rachel and darkcitymedia (Where is he, anyway?)) are two, but I certainly share your point of view. It does seem to just come down to “mindless reaffirmation.” Personally, I am getting bored with the same thing over and over.
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I suppose that if I didn’t visit this site for several months or years, it would be the same when I came back. But, all-in-all, I do like supporting my fellow Pastafarians. I just wish there were more variety. Even pasta comes in many types and tastes.
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RAmen
So, you are looking for a first cause. If everything requires a first cause, then who or what caused your god?
Please answer here:
_____________________________
If you cant see the inherent logical flaws in your argument, your unintelligence has made you destined for a life of losing, and not worth any more of my time.
Matt: Not to justify the argument of this poster, as it’s not a very good one, but I have to say something: I’ve never heard any Christian saying that they’ve never sinned. Everyone sins. That’s one of the main points of Christianity; everyone sins, and thus everyone is in need of God’s forgiveness. Christians praise God because He does forgive anything.