Comments on: Billions of years ago http://www.venganza.org/2008/02/26/billions-of-years-ago.htm Sat, 05 Jul 2008 21:38:49 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.2 By: Tricia C. http://www.venganza.org/2008/02/26/billions-of-years-ago.htm#comment-512195 Tricia C. Sun, 29 Jun 2008 02:41:00 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2008/02/26/billions-of-years-ago.htm#comment-512195 To cina murtad: No, henderob is Bobby Henderson. The hate-message-writer is Jonathon. Other-wise good reply. :D To cina murtad:

No, henderob is Bobby Henderson.
The hate-message-writer is Jonathon.
Other-wise good reply. :D

]]> By: Kurt http://www.venganza.org/2008/02/26/billions-of-years-ago.htm#comment-506385 Kurt Tue, 24 Jun 2008 17:00:16 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2008/02/26/billions-of-years-ago.htm#comment-506385 The wild banana god made doesnt look or taste anything like the cultivated banana people made. It is shaped funny and tastes like shit. Good job God. The wild banana god made doesnt look or taste anything like the cultivated banana people made. It is shaped funny and tastes like shit. Good job God.

]]> By: TheFewTheProudTheMarinara http://www.venganza.org/2008/02/26/billions-of-years-ago.htm#comment-504850 TheFewTheProudTheMarinara Mon, 23 Jun 2008 14:44:58 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2008/02/26/billions-of-years-ago.htm#comment-504850 "Could I convince you that I dropped 50 oranges onto the ground and then by chance fell into ten rows of five oranges? Logically, anyone with an intelligent mind might conclude that someone put them there. The odds that ten oranges would fall into a straight line is mind boggling. Let alone ten rows of five." Horrible analogy here. Given that the experiment was happening millions or billions of times simultaneously for hundreds of millions of years, it would be mind-boggling if the oranges HADN'T lined up thousands of times. “Could I convince you that I dropped 50 oranges onto the ground and then by chance fell into ten rows of five oranges? Logically, anyone with an intelligent mind might conclude that someone put them there. The odds that ten oranges would fall into a straight line is mind boggling. Let alone ten rows of five.”

Horrible analogy here. Given that the experiment was happening millions or billions of times simultaneously for hundreds of millions of years, it would be mind-boggling if the oranges HADN’T lined up thousands of times.

]]> By: cina murtad http://www.venganza.org/2008/02/26/billions-of-years-ago.htm#comment-504129 cina murtad Mon, 23 Jun 2008 02:31:23 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2008/02/26/billions-of-years-ago.htm#comment-504129 dear henderob, hmm ... billions of years ago, an old bearded person in the sky shout "kun fayakun" (or whatever) and then the universe of watery world is made. after a while, he thought that the land should be separated from the water, and so the land dried and the water form the ocean, and the horizon separated the sky and the ground. and then, he decided to illuminate the sky, so he created the stars, the sun and the moon for the sake of this new world at the sky surrounding it. sometime later, he also thought that light should be separated from the dark (so it was once united? /swt), and so there be day and night (i'm sorry, what's the sun created for?). blablabla yaddayaddayadda, then the human was made. sorry for my bad english, it's not my mother language. consider this is the truth ... and i am so BELIEVE with something designed by something intelligent, then i'm also SURE that the old bearded man in the sky was also designed by something else too. but, who could it be? can you please illuminate this petty peasant with your so called wisdom? :) dear henderob,

hmm … billions of years ago, an old bearded person in the sky shout “kun fayakun” (or whatever) and then the universe of watery world is made. after a while, he thought that the land should be separated from the water, and so the land dried and the water form the ocean, and the horizon separated the sky and the ground. and then, he decided to illuminate the sky, so he created the stars, the sun and the moon for the sake of this new world at the sky surrounding it. sometime later, he also thought that light should be separated from the dark (so it was once united? /swt), and so there be day and night (i’m sorry, what’s the sun created for?). blablabla yaddayaddayadda, then the human was made.

sorry for my bad english, it’s not my mother language.

consider this is the truth … and i am so BELIEVE with something designed by something intelligent, then i’m also SURE that the old bearded man in the sky was also designed by something else too. but, who could it be? can you please illuminate this petty peasant with your so called wisdom? :)

]]> By: DaxFX http://www.venganza.org/2008/02/26/billions-of-years-ago.htm#comment-503818 DaxFX Sun, 22 Jun 2008 19:57:49 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2008/02/26/billions-of-years-ago.htm#comment-503818 the bible says god create the earth in 7 days. that is the biggest joke ever. and took sunday free.. jejeje where are the 4.5 billions of years of earth evolution proved by sience. there is solid fisical evidence of eart evolution. christians claim that earth is 20.000 years old (far away from reality) where the dinosaurs in the bible? the bible says god create the earth in 7 days. that is the biggest joke ever. and took sunday free.. jejeje where are the 4.5 billions of years of earth evolution proved by sience. there is solid fisical evidence of eart evolution. christians claim that earth is 20.000 years old (far away from reality) where the dinosaurs in the bible?

]]> By: Bjarke DK http://www.venganza.org/2008/02/26/billions-of-years-ago.htm#comment-471423 Bjarke DK Sat, 31 May 2008 17:47:51 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2008/02/26/billions-of-years-ago.htm#comment-471423 Im not sure if you realise this, but yes the banana has an intelligent creator. It is, quite simply, a human made fruit. You know, you can breed plants as well as animals. Im not sure if you realise this, but yes the banana has an intelligent creator. It is, quite simply, a human made fruit. You know, you can breed plants as well as animals.

]]> By: Cameron http://www.venganza.org/2008/02/26/billions-of-years-ago.htm#comment-452846 Cameron Tue, 20 May 2008 20:18:10 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2008/02/26/billions-of-years-ago.htm#comment-452846 You are right, poster. It is much more likely that a giant invisible man in the sky decided that he would make human beings out of dirt, then stop talking to them forever. You are right, poster. It is much more likely that a giant invisible man in the sky decided that he would make human beings out of dirt, then stop talking to them forever.

]]> By: Dangerstevey http://www.venganza.org/2008/02/26/billions-of-years-ago.htm#comment-433779 Dangerstevey Wed, 07 May 2008 01:04:46 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2008/02/26/billions-of-years-ago.htm#comment-433779 First I was mad, than I understood. You're simply an uneducated retard. You believe anything you're told in church, or by a religious official. You don't understand. Natural selection is the exact opposite of chance. For an eye to be created by chance is absurd, and so it wasn't. It was created over millions of years by the process of natural selection, which in the end created a better eye each time it happened. in the end, we have the eyes of today, eyes suited to each individual animal that has them. First I was mad, than I understood. You’re simply an uneducated retard. You believe anything you’re told in church, or by a religious official. You don’t understand. Natural selection is the exact opposite of chance. For an eye to be created by chance is absurd, and so it wasn’t. It was created over millions of years by the process of natural selection, which in the end created a better eye each time it happened. in the end, we have the eyes of today, eyes suited to each individual animal that has them.

]]> By: Dangerstevey http://www.venganza.org/2008/02/26/billions-of-years-ago.htm#comment-433772 Dangerstevey Wed, 07 May 2008 01:00:42 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2008/02/26/billions-of-years-ago.htm#comment-433772 The Religious persons nightmare: ALL OF SCIENCE! The Religious persons nightmare:
ALL OF SCIENCE!

]]> By: Tora http://www.venganza.org/2008/02/26/billions-of-years-ago.htm#comment-430605 Tora Mon, 05 May 2008 22:06:23 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2008/02/26/billions-of-years-ago.htm#comment-430605 You seem to think that evolution is completely random. Like, if you threw a bunch of random cells into the air, they'd fall down and create a perfect human. This is not the case. It's more like, if you had a bag of marbles of a thousand different colours, and wanted a red one, and started picking out marbles randomly and every time you took one out, you put one in of one of the colours already in the bag but NOT one of the colours outside the bag. It's a bad analogy, I know, but it's all I can think of at the moment. Also, if we took that same bag and wanted a red marble again, you could say that it's very very unlikely to get a red marble. But you could say that about a blue marble or a yellow one or a green one. Evolution isn't determined to get our exact DNA, it's to come up with an animal that can live well in the environment it evolved in. Maybe, if something had happened just slightly different, we would be giant talking dogs walking around, with people crawling around doing tricks for food. You seem to think that evolution is completely random. Like, if you threw a bunch of random cells into the air, they’d fall down and create a perfect human. This is not the case. It’s more like, if you had a bag of marbles of a thousand different colours, and wanted a red one, and started picking out marbles randomly and every time you took one out, you put one in of one of the colours already in the bag but NOT one of the colours outside the bag. It’s a bad analogy, I know, but it’s all I can think of at the moment.

Also, if we took that same bag and wanted a red marble again, you could say that it’s very very unlikely to get a red marble. But you could say that about a blue marble or a yellow one or a green one. Evolution isn’t determined to get our exact DNA, it’s to come up with an animal that can live well in the environment it evolved in. Maybe, if something had happened just slightly different, we would be giant talking dogs walking around, with people crawling around doing tricks for food.

]]> By: Really? http://www.venganza.org/2008/02/26/billions-of-years-ago.htm#comment-429711 Really? Mon, 05 May 2008 16:18:02 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2008/02/26/billions-of-years-ago.htm#comment-429711 To almost everyone here; you need to learn some basic grammar, spelling, and forum etiquette. Sure, a mistake here and there is acceptable, we're human, but when you make the same mistake over and over again, some of us might think that you don't know what you're writing. The saddest part is, the Christian "IDiots" have a better track record than the people that have enough intelligence to realize that Pastafarianism did not start as something people were supposed to follow (but who knows what it is now). To almost everyone here; you need to learn some basic grammar, spelling, and forum etiquette. Sure, a mistake here and there is acceptable, we’re human, but when you make the same mistake over and over again, some of us might think that you don’t know what you’re writing. The saddest part is, the Christian “IDiots” have a better track record than the people that have enough intelligence to realize that Pastafarianism did not start as something people were supposed to follow (but who knows what it is now).

]]> By: steve http://www.venganza.org/2008/02/26/billions-of-years-ago.htm#comment-425639 steve Sun, 04 May 2008 08:00:37 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2008/02/26/billions-of-years-ago.htm#comment-425639 I've got this banana that curves away from my mouth... What's with that???!? I’ve got this banana that curves away from my mouth…

What’s with that???!?

]]> By: Diosaucean Synod http://www.venganza.org/2008/02/26/billions-of-years-ago.htm#comment-421108 Diosaucean Synod Fri, 02 May 2008 11:16:05 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2008/02/26/billions-of-years-ago.htm#comment-421108 Bananas? What about apples, oranges, cranberries, blueberries, strawberries, Starfruit and kiwi fruit? Stop picking on bananas! You're being fruitist! None of the other fruits above have 'been made to suit our hands' so why should bananas be any different? Is that the Theist's nightmare? You seem to think that your god said 'Hey, this idea for bananas, well they don't sound very conventional do they? Well okay, pass me one [pauses to rub his hands up and down it to make the grooves]. There we go: Banana!' But what you don't seem to clarify is why 'God' didn't seem to bother with any of the other fruits. The other thing is, some of the bananas I get have completely round skins! A lot of people I know don't like them, so they AREN'T 'pleasing'. Next you will be saying bananas are easy to cut so you can make Banana Sundaes! MAJOR flaws in your theory. RAmen Bananas? What about apples, oranges, cranberries, blueberries, strawberries, Starfruit and kiwi fruit?

Stop picking on bananas! You’re being fruitist!

None of the other fruits above have ‘been made to suit our hands’ so why should bananas be any different? Is that the Theist’s nightmare?

You seem to think that your god said ‘Hey, this idea for bananas, well they don’t sound very conventional do they? Well okay, pass me one [pauses to rub his hands up and down it to make the grooves]. There we go: Banana!’ But what you don’t seem to clarify is why ‘God’ didn’t seem to bother with any of the other fruits.

The other thing is, some of the bananas I get have completely round skins! A lot of people I know don’t like them, so they AREN’T ‘pleasing’.

Next you will be saying bananas are easy to cut so you can make Banana Sundaes!

MAJOR flaws in your theory.

RAmen

]]> By: BD http://www.venganza.org/2008/02/26/billions-of-years-ago.htm#comment-417149 BD Wed, 30 Apr 2008 20:37:47 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2008/02/26/billions-of-years-ago.htm#comment-417149 Jeff, friend, you are wrong. You clearly have a view of evolution that makes it spontaneous. Evolution does not happen in a can of beans because there is no selection criteria. If I were to put a bacteria that consumed beans in the can and there happened to be one left afterwards and planted it you could end up with a new kind of bean that is resistant to this bacteria. I would need to grow these new beans but if i were to can these beans and do it again, the process would continue and this is evolution. But it requires a selection criteria. The argument that there is no proof of macro evolution is bunk. I would like for you to look up a fossil called Tiktaalik. Tiktaalik is a transitional fossil found between fish and amphibians. If you are with the FSM we have a perfectly logical explanation for this, the FSM has divinely created Tiktaalik to keep his/her powers hidden. But if you are someone who is looking for proof of macro evolution your going to have to understand that you are never going to be able to see it. As someone who believes in talking snakes, magical staves and water walking, the idea of a fossil having at one point been alive should not be a stretch. If you believe that it is Atheists who act "without conviction or moral restraint" I recommend the Pardoner's Tale in the Canterbury Tales. If your not a fan of Chaucer look at your pudgy evangelists and see where their hearts are. Countless deaths have been justified in the name of just about every God and every Prophet, the hands of theists are unclean. If a man kills me for God how do I know it is not His will? God has ordered the deaths of many, Moses's (alleged) dispatching of the Amorites proves this. What I can do for you Jeff is tell you that there is a God. I hope that makes you feel better. There is a great mover in the universe. Now, the burden of proof is on you to prove that this God had children. I need some proof that there were talking snakes and magic immortality gardens. I need to know that before the 10 Commandments people were wildly killing each other, that before God said "don't kill" people were unsure of its morality. And don't forget...world destroying floods! The loving God that kills all but 2 of everything, praise his justice! The spectacular thing about the scientific world is that you do not know everything. And you cannot go to one scientist for every answer. If you ask an astrophysicist about evolution you may not get a good answer. In the future it will be within the human understanding what happened before the Big Bang. And we will come to a common theme; religion will have to contort itself once again to justify its near useless existence. If I have faith in anything, I have faith in humanity. I believe that people don't need the threat of divine punishment or reward to do good. The divinity of bananas is a horrible argument. You don't dismiss it, you just rephrase it. Jeff, friend, you are wrong. You clearly have a view of evolution that makes it spontaneous. Evolution does not happen in a can of beans because there is no selection criteria. If I were to put a bacteria that consumed beans in the can and there happened to be one left afterwards and planted it you could end up with a new kind of bean that is resistant to this bacteria. I would need to grow these new beans but if i were to can these beans and do it again, the process would continue and this is evolution. But it requires a selection criteria. The argument that there is no proof of macro evolution is bunk. I would like for you to look up a fossil called Tiktaalik. Tiktaalik is a transitional fossil found between fish and amphibians. If you are with the FSM we have a perfectly logical explanation for this, the FSM has divinely created Tiktaalik to keep his/her powers hidden. But if you are someone who is looking for proof of macro evolution your going to have to understand that you are never going to be able to see it. As someone who believes in talking snakes, magical staves and water walking, the idea of a fossil having at one point been alive should not be a stretch. If you believe that it is Atheists who act “without conviction or moral restraint” I recommend the Pardoner’s Tale in the Canterbury Tales. If your not a fan of Chaucer look at your pudgy evangelists and see where their hearts are. Countless deaths have been justified in the name of just about every God and every Prophet, the hands of theists are unclean. If a man kills me for God how do I know it is not His will? God has ordered the deaths of many, Moses’s (alleged) dispatching of the Amorites proves this. What I can do for you Jeff is tell you that there is a God. I hope that makes you feel better. There is a great mover in the universe. Now, the burden of proof is on you to prove that this God had children. I need some proof that there were talking snakes and magic immortality gardens. I need to know that before the 10 Commandments people were wildly killing each other, that before God said “don’t kill” people were unsure of its morality. And don’t forget…world destroying floods! The loving God that kills all but 2 of everything, praise his justice! The spectacular thing about the scientific world is that you do not know everything. And you cannot go to one scientist for every answer. If you ask an astrophysicist about evolution you may not get a good answer. In the future it will be within the human understanding what happened before the Big Bang. And we will come to a common theme; religion will have to contort itself once again to justify its near useless existence. If I have faith in anything, I have faith in humanity. I believe that people don’t need the threat of divine punishment or reward to do good. The divinity of bananas is a horrible argument. You don’t dismiss it, you just rephrase it.

]]> By: Sarah http://www.venganza.org/2008/02/26/billions-of-years-ago.htm#comment-417042 Sarah Wed, 30 Apr 2008 19:41:01 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2008/02/26/billions-of-years-ago.htm#comment-417042 Jeff M, I'd have found it easier to process your argument on a logical basis if you had not proceeded to state facts which are blatantly untrue, specifically: "Atheists (and people who start cynical little religions to make a point) can only convert the prideful and morally deficient because they don’t want to believe in God, because they want to do what THEY want, without conviction or moral restraint." Atheists, in general, are not morally deficient; we simply base or morals on something other than "God said so". Murder, for example, is a bad idea - not because God said so but because humans function better in societies where murder is not tolerated. Charity, as another example, is a good idea - not because God said so but because humans function better in societies where people are willing to collaborate and help others when they are in need. As for the rest of what you posted, I'll pay attention to that when you can cease insulting me. RAmen, Sarah Jeff M,

I’d have found it easier to process your argument on a logical basis if you had not proceeded to state facts which are blatantly untrue, specifically: “Atheists (and people who start cynical little religions to make a point) can only convert the prideful and morally deficient because they don’t want to believe in God, because they want to do what THEY want, without conviction or moral restraint.” Atheists, in general, are not morally deficient; we simply base or morals on something other than “God said so”. Murder, for example, is a bad idea - not because God said so but because humans function better in societies where murder is not tolerated. Charity, as another example, is a good idea - not because God said so but because humans function better in societies where people are willing to collaborate and help others when they are in need. As for the rest of what you posted, I’ll pay attention to that when you can cease insulting me.

RAmen, Sarah

]]> By: Ubi Dubium http://www.venganza.org/2008/02/26/billions-of-years-ago.htm#comment-416260 Ubi Dubium Wed, 30 Apr 2008 14:07:29 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2008/02/26/billions-of-years-ago.htm#comment-416260 @ Jeff M First, thank you for correct spelling and grammar, and a measure of courtesy. That is often sadly lacking from the xtians who post here. I do want to reply to a few of your comments: . "You don’t have to read Darwin’s Book to oppose the general ideas espoused therein. You’ve proven that yourself, unless you’ve actually read all 66 books by 40 different authors over thousands of years in the Bible." . You seem to assume most atheists have not read the bible. In general, this is not the case. I, myself, have read it cover to cover, twice, in two different translations. (And I've read Darwin too, thank you.) Many atheists were originally xtians, but it was only once they actually READ their "holy book" that they realized that they could no longer believe in it. . "People, humans, would rather make up wild stories to explain their Creator away than accept the blunt facts surrounding them." . You can just as easliy say that people would rather make up wild creator stories then accept that they don't yet understand all the blunt facts surrounding them. . "Atheists (and people who start cynical little religions to make a point) can only convert the prideful and morally deficient because they don’t want to believe in God, because they want to do what THEY want, without conviction or moral restraint." . Also, generally not true. (How many atheists do you actually know personally?) Most atheists I know are much more ethical than the average true believer. Since we do not believe in a forgiving god, we have to live with the consequences of our own actions. We also cannot justify evil acts by pretending that they are the "will of god". And we can't "convert" anybody. We can live our lives in a way that shows that the ugly stereotypes put out by fundamentalists are untrue. We can demonstrate that it is possible to find meaning and purpose in life without belief in the supernatural. We can suggest that people should not fear to think things out for themselves. But believers usually de-convert individually, often only after thinking long and deeply about their beliefs, and not from being preached at, or "converted". . One of the lovely things about this website is that it allows us to hold a mirror up to fundamentalist preaching. If we substitute FSM language into your arguments, and if they sound just as rational, then how good were your arguments to begin with? Like this: . “The odds are stacked in favor of Intelligent Design???” Are you thoroughly brainwashed then? Come to your senses! That’s only true in your chosen worldview. There is no evidence of creationism except in the little bubble of a worldview you’ve built around yourselves. Your “religion” flies in the face of thousands of years of history, science, and human existence." . See, the argument sounds just as valid this way. . "The burden of proof is on you. The thing you’re all missing is CONTEXT. You can’t pick and choose the facts you want and leave the rest of the surrounding circumstances." . No - the burden of proof is on you. You ask us to believe in an invisible, all-powerful, all-knowing, loving god, who reveals himself only through an ancient and highly contradictory text, who never reveals himself today in any specifically measurable way, and who allows evil things to happen to his believers just as often as to anybody else. This is an extraordinary claim, and as such, requires extraordinary proof. Considering the state of the world, I find the idea that it was created by a drunken FSM, who does not really care whether you believe in him, who wants you to talk like a pirate, and who changes the results of scientific experiments because he feels like it, much more easily believable. AND you can't prove it's false. Hurrah for cynical little religions! . As for picking and choosing your facts - I have a few bible references for you. Go look these up: Judges 1:19 Leviticus 25:44-46 Deuteromy 22:23-24 Joshua 6:21 Mark 11:22 I won't tell you what to think about these passages from your own holy book. I just suggest that you actually DO think about them. Before you accuse others of "picking and choosing the facts you want", be sure that you are not also yourself guilty of the same. Or, for what your book has to say on the subject: read Mark 6:41-42. . I don't need to live in a world full of people who think the same way I do. But I would like to live in a world full of people who THINK. . RAmen @ Jeff M
First, thank you for correct spelling and grammar, and a measure of courtesy. That is often sadly lacking from the xtians who post here. I do want to reply to a few of your comments:
.
“You don’t have to read Darwin’s Book to oppose the general ideas espoused therein. You’ve proven that yourself, unless you’ve actually read all 66 books by 40 different authors over thousands of years in the Bible.”
.
You seem to assume most atheists have not read the bible. In general, this is not the case. I, myself, have read it cover to cover, twice, in two different translations. (And I’ve read Darwin too, thank you.) Many atheists were originally xtians, but it was only once they actually READ their “holy book” that they realized that they could no longer believe in it.
.
“People, humans, would rather make up wild stories to explain their Creator away than accept the blunt facts surrounding them.”
.
You can just as easliy say that people would rather make up wild creator stories then accept that they don’t yet understand all the blunt facts surrounding them.
.
“Atheists (and people who start cynical little religions to make a point) can only convert the prideful and morally deficient because they don’t want to believe in God, because they want to do what THEY want, without conviction or moral restraint.”
.
Also, generally not true. (How many atheists do you actually know personally?) Most atheists I know are much more ethical than the average true believer. Since we do not believe in a forgiving god, we have to live with the consequences of our own actions. We also cannot justify evil acts by pretending that they are the “will of god”. And we can’t “convert” anybody. We can live our lives in a way that shows that the ugly stereotypes put out by fundamentalists are untrue. We can demonstrate that it is possible to find meaning and purpose in life without belief in the supernatural. We can suggest that people should not fear to think things out for themselves. But believers usually de-convert individually, often only after thinking long and deeply about their beliefs, and not from being preached at, or “converted”.
.
One of the lovely things about this website is that it allows us to hold a mirror up to fundamentalist preaching. If we substitute FSM language into your arguments, and if they sound just as rational, then how good were your arguments to begin with? Like this:
.
“The odds are stacked in favor of Intelligent Design???” Are you thoroughly brainwashed then? Come to your senses! That’s only true in your chosen worldview. There is no evidence of creationism except in the little bubble of a worldview you’ve built around yourselves. Your “religion” flies in the face of thousands of years of history, science, and human existence.”
.
See, the argument sounds just as valid this way.
.
“The burden of proof is on you. The thing you’re all missing is CONTEXT. You can’t pick and choose the facts you want and leave the rest of the surrounding circumstances.”
.
No - the burden of proof is on you. You ask us to believe in an invisible, all-powerful, all-knowing, loving god, who reveals himself only through an ancient and highly contradictory text, who never reveals himself today in any specifically measurable way, and who allows evil things to happen to his believers just as often as to anybody else. This is an extraordinary claim, and as such, requires extraordinary proof. Considering the state of the world, I find the idea that it was created by a drunken FSM, who does not really care whether you believe in him, who wants you to talk like a pirate, and who changes the results of scientific experiments because he feels like it, much more easily believable. AND you can’t prove it’s false. Hurrah for cynical little religions!
.
As for picking and choosing your facts - I have a few bible references for you. Go look these up:
Judges 1:19
Leviticus 25:44-46
Deuteromy 22:23-24
Joshua 6:21
Mark 11:22
I won’t tell you what to think about these passages from your own holy book. I just suggest that you actually DO think about them. Before you accuse others of “picking and choosing the facts you want”, be sure that you are not also yourself guilty of the same. Or, for what your book has to say on the subject: read Mark 6:41-42.
.
I don’t need to live in a world full of people who think the same way I do. But I would like to live in a world full of people who THINK.
.
RAmen

]]> By: James D King of Pirates http://www.venganza.org/2008/02/26/billions-of-years-ago.htm#comment-416174 James D King of Pirates Wed, 30 Apr 2008 13:27:57 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2008/02/26/billions-of-years-ago.htm#comment-416174 @ Jeff M sorry to dissapopint but i dont beleive in your "forgiving god" because she is a sadist, incest loving freak that would rather kill and torment eternally anyone that doesnt believe in her or follow her ways eternally, so piss of you cockmonkey, and enjoy your stale beer and VD. I cannot as a decent person beleive in any god that promotes violence based on faith, so before you condemn us for what you think, try actually thinking. i would noramlly not say this but may you forever have stale beer and VD infested strippers. @ Jeff M
sorry to dissapopint but i dont beleive in your “forgiving god” because she is a sadist, incest loving freak that would rather kill and torment eternally anyone that doesnt believe in her or follow her ways eternally, so piss of you cockmonkey, and enjoy your stale beer and VD. I cannot as a decent person beleive in any god that promotes violence based on faith, so before you condemn us for what you think, try actually thinking.
i would noramlly not say this but may you forever have stale beer and VD infested strippers.

]]> By: Francesc http://www.venganza.org/2008/02/26/billions-of-years-ago.htm#comment-415931 Francesc Wed, 30 Apr 2008 11:40:26 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2008/02/26/billions-of-years-ago.htm#comment-415931 To Jeff M Apr 29th, 2008 at 10:48 pm . . "Sorry, I’m done now. Don’t mean to hog the blog. :)" Don't worry, are you feeling better now? . "lots of lame arguments thrown back at my friend Jon, who actually offered a series of sound, logical arguments" I disagree with you, most of the pastafarian arguments where logical, and Jon hadn't any good argument. In fact most of the arguments exposed where explaining why we think Jon is a poor IDiot that doesn't understand logic at all . "There has not been enough TIME for the oranges to fall as described" Why? Because you say so? Sorry, hovind & company have given any prove of that, and I didn't heard of it? How many time would have been necessary, according to your tests? . "Again, where did the MATTER come from that exploded?" Uff...silly...so the matter can't come from nothing, unlike your god; what was doing god before he created the universe? And yes, as you have said, who created god? Is an argument used very often, since any IDiot couldn't answer it . "It has been widely accepted for the past few decades that the universe is not eternal, thus everything had a beginning" Well, our universe seems not to be eternal, we doesn't know yet if before the Big-Bang existed another universe - and a Big-Crunch. This process could be -or maybe not- eternal . " the typewriter explodes and kills everything within 20 yards" because you said so, again. I assume you are a statistician, aren't you? With large knowledge about biology, and you have calculated each probability involved in any little process of life, in order to calculate it. On the other hand, this killing and exploding is again the Bible-sadistic vision, isn't it? . "NO, my friends, otherwise you’d have evolution in cans of green beans" Cans didn't reproduce themselves. You could someday, if you find a suitable partner. Sorry... . "INFORMATION. DNA. INTELLIGENCE. SOFTWARE. That’s what makes life". You didn't understand anything about evolution, did you? Or you have a very poor imagination. And that's again an statement, not an argument. . " the prideful and morally deficient because they don’t want to believe in God, because they want to do what THEY want, without conviction or moral restraint" I have convictions and ethical "restraints", withouth a Great Father in the Sky saying me what I shouldn't do. Atheists aren't -in general- amoral people. That's a lie long repeated by fundies. In fact, the moral written in the bible is not the christian moral -for many of his branches- now. So, where did your moral come from?? . "I sincerely hope you’ll take some of our comments to heart and think about them, but I fear that won’t happen. " I hope the same for you. RAmen. ("hate mail" is also "concerned criticism"). . "Also, you people who are calling yourself Christians and are using profanity and such on this blog need to quit" Profanity is an archaic way to censore. " I also fully acknowledge that not all people who call themselves Christians are" And each christian has -more or less- his own God. I will forget your reference to the judgement day, as we all will be drinking beer and having fun . "There is no evidence of macro-evolution except in the little bubble of a worldview you’ve built around yourselves. Your “religion” flies in the face of thousands of years of history, science, and human existence. The burden of proof is on you" There is plenty of evidence of macro-evolution. Intermediate forms between species in the fossil register, the distribution of the different species, relationships in the DNA... Ask and it will be given. In fact, providing wrong evidences is a hobby of the FSM, and He has a lot of time and a lot of appendages. That are our proofs, and yours? We should accept that, because it says so in the bible? The bible doesn't lies because is God's word and it's God's word because it says so in the bible... . So, two posts ant your only real argument is that of the beginning, or nothing comes from nothing, unlike your god To Jeff M
Apr 29th, 2008 at 10:48 pm
.
.
“Sorry, I’m done now. Don’t mean to hog the blog. :)”
Don’t worry, are you feeling better now?
.
“lots of lame arguments thrown back at my friend Jon, who actually offered a series of sound, logical arguments”
I disagree with you, most of the pastafarian arguments where logical, and Jon hadn’t any good argument. In fact most of the arguments exposed where explaining why we think Jon is a poor IDiot that doesn’t understand logic at all
.
“There has not been enough TIME for the oranges to fall as described”
Why? Because you say so? Sorry, hovind & company have given any prove of that, and I didn’t heard of it? How many time would have been necessary, according to your tests?
.
“Again, where did the MATTER come from that exploded?” Uff…silly…so the matter can’t come from nothing, unlike your god; what was doing god before he created the universe? And yes, as you have said, who created god? Is an argument used very often, since any IDiot couldn’t answer it
.
“It has been widely accepted for the past few decades that the universe is not eternal, thus everything had a beginning” Well, our universe seems not to be eternal, we doesn’t know yet if before the Big-Bang existed another universe - and a Big-Crunch. This process could be -or maybe not- eternal
.
” the typewriter explodes and kills everything within 20 yards” because you said so, again. I assume you are a statistician, aren’t you? With large knowledge about biology, and you have calculated each probability involved in any little process of life, in order to calculate it.
On the other hand, this killing and exploding is again the Bible-sadistic vision, isn’t it?
.
“NO, my friends, otherwise you’d have evolution in cans of green beans” Cans didn’t reproduce themselves. You could someday, if you find a suitable partner. Sorry…
.
“INFORMATION. DNA. INTELLIGENCE. SOFTWARE. That’s what makes life”. You didn’t understand anything about evolution, did you? Or you have a very poor imagination. And that’s again an statement, not an argument.
.
” the prideful and morally deficient because they don’t want to believe in God, because they want to do what THEY want, without conviction or moral restraint”
I have convictions and ethical “restraints”, withouth a Great Father in the Sky saying me what I shouldn’t do. Atheists aren’t -in general- amoral people. That’s a lie long repeated by fundies. In fact, the moral written in the bible is not the christian moral -for many of his branches- now. So, where did your moral come from??
.
“I sincerely hope you’ll take some of our comments to heart and think about them, but I fear that won’t happen. ” I hope the same for you. RAmen. (”hate mail” is also “concerned criticism”).
.
“Also, you people who are calling yourself Christians and are using profanity and such on this blog need to quit” Profanity is an archaic way to censore. ” I also fully acknowledge that not all people who call themselves Christians are” And each christian has -more or less- his own God. I will forget your reference to the judgement day, as we all will be drinking beer and having fun
.
“There is no evidence of macro-evolution except in the little bubble of a worldview you’ve built around yourselves. Your “religion” flies in the face of thousands of years of history, science, and human existence. The burden of proof is on you”
There is plenty of evidence of macro-evolution. Intermediate forms between species in the fossil register, the distribution of the different species, relationships in the DNA… Ask and it will be given. In fact, providing wrong evidences is a hobby of the FSM, and He has a lot of time and a lot of appendages.
That are our proofs, and yours? We should accept that, because it says so in the bible?
The bible doesn’t lies because is God’s word and it’s God’s word because it says so in the bible…
.
So, two posts ant your only real argument is that of the beginning, or nothing comes from nothing, unlike your god

]]> By: Advantageous Mongoose http://www.venganza.org/2008/02/26/billions-of-years-ago.htm#comment-415688 Advantageous Mongoose Wed, 30 Apr 2008 09:38:19 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2008/02/26/billions-of-years-ago.htm#comment-415688 -By the way, a cave is not a building If it wasn't built how did it come into being, and on that subject where did the rest of the universe come from? - the universe is not infinite, Have you got any proof for this statement? Because it would settle one of the major questions physicists would like answered. -and yes the banana argument is weak, and thus easy to attack which explains why almost everyone here has decided to. Like a pack of lions attacking the weakest antelope who falls behind the herd. Evolution's like that, we figure if we keep killing off stupid arguments they will eventually stop reproducing. -Easy target. Does anyone have anything of substance to offer? The oranges will never fall as described. Our argument does not predict oranges will fall in neat patterns, neither do we expect the red sea to part because someone waves a stick at it. -You’ve put your faith in mathematics and chance and left moorings of sound judgment and common sense.Cal: You don’t have to read Darwin’s Book to oppose the general ideas espoused therein. You’ve proven that yourself, unless you’ve actually read all 66 books by 40 different authors over thousands of years in the Bible. Please! “The odds are stacked in favor of evolution???” Are you thoroughly brainwashed then? Come to your senses! That’s only true in your chosen worldview. There is no evidence of macro-evolution except in the little bubble of a worldview you’ve built around yourselves. Your “religion” flies in the face of thousands of years of history, science, and human existence. I have to question why I am trying to use reason and logic with someone who can argue that thousands of years of history, science and experience disproves mathematics, probability and evolution; and also claim to have sound judgement and common sense. I'm also a bit jealous, I wish i could write that many logical fallacies and that much irony in so few words, chuck in a couple of jokes and it's award winning satire. -The burden of proof is on you. It's just as well that we have plenty of it then, from DNA to the fossil record, and it's verifiable and reproducible. Your theory by comparison is blissfully unencumbered. -The thing you’re all missing is CONTEXT. You can’t pick and choose the facts you want and leave the rest of the surrounding circumstances. Although sm would ask us to ignore mathematics, other religions, the contradictory passages in the bible, and bananas. Hmm, antelopes..the vegetarians nightmare 1. have a neck that fits in a lions jaw. 2. has a non-slip surface. 3. Has outward indicators of it’s inward contents. looks like an antelope-contains antelope. 4. Has a tab for removal of it’s wrapper. (I may have to check this one later) 5. Is perforated on wrapper. That's after the lion has bit it. 6. Has a bio-degradable wrapper. 7. can feed a family of lions for one week. 8. And a flock of vultures. 9. Is pleasing to the taste buds. 10.Conveniently live near lions, surely only an idiot would think that this happened by chance. -By the way, a cave is not a building

If it wasn’t built how did it come into being, and on that subject where did the rest of the universe come from?

- the universe is not infinite,

Have you got any proof for this statement? Because it would settle one of the major questions physicists would like answered.

-and yes the banana argument is weak, and thus easy to attack which explains why almost everyone here has decided to. Like a pack of lions attacking the weakest antelope who falls behind the herd.

Evolution’s like that, we figure if we keep killing off stupid arguments they will eventually stop reproducing.

-Easy target. Does anyone have anything of substance to offer? The oranges will never fall as described.

Our argument does not predict oranges will fall in neat patterns, neither do we expect the red sea to part because someone waves a stick at it.

-You’ve put your faith in mathematics and chance and left moorings of sound judgment and common sense.Cal: You don’t have to read Darwin’s Book to oppose the general ideas espoused therein. You’ve proven that yourself, unless you’ve actually read all 66 books by 40 different authors over thousands of years in the Bible. Please! “The odds are stacked in favor of evolution???” Are you thoroughly brainwashed then? Come to your senses! That’s only true in your chosen worldview. There is no evidence of macro-evolution except in the little bubble of a worldview you’ve built around yourselves. Your “religion” flies in the face of thousands of years of history, science, and human existence.

I have to question why I am trying to use reason and logic with someone who can argue that thousands of years of history, science and experience disproves mathematics, probability and evolution; and also claim to have sound judgement and common sense. I’m also a bit jealous, I wish i could write that many logical fallacies and that much irony in so few words, chuck in a couple of jokes and it’s award winning satire.

-The burden of proof is on you.

It’s just as well that we have plenty of it then, from DNA to the fossil record, and it’s verifiable and reproducible. Your theory by comparison is blissfully unencumbered.

-The thing you’re all missing is CONTEXT. You can’t pick and choose the facts you want and leave the rest of the surrounding circumstances.

Although sm would ask us to ignore mathematics, other religions, the contradictory passages in the bible, and bananas.

Hmm, antelopes..the vegetarians nightmare

1. have a neck that fits in a lions jaw.

2. has a non-slip surface.

3. Has outward indicators of it’s inward contents. looks like an antelope-contains antelope.

4. Has a tab for removal of it’s wrapper. (I may have to check this one later)

5. Is perforated on wrapper. That’s after the lion has bit it.

6. Has a bio-degradable wrapper.

7. can feed a family of lions for one week.

8. And a flock of vultures.

9. Is pleasing to the taste buds.

10.Conveniently live near lions, surely only an idiot would think that this happened by chance.

]]> By: Jeff M http://www.venganza.org/2008/02/26/billions-of-years-ago.htm#comment-415354 Jeff M Wed, 30 Apr 2008 05:20:34 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2008/02/26/billions-of-years-ago.htm#comment-415354 By the way, a cave is not a building, the universe is not infinite, and yes the banana argument is weak, and thus easy to attack which explains why almost everyone here has decided to. Like a pack of lions attacking the weakest antelope who falls behind the herd. Easy target. Does anyone have anything of substance to offer? The oranges will never fall as described. You've put your faith in mathematics and chance and left moorings of sound judgment and common sense. Cal: You don't have to read Darwin's Book to oppose the general ideas espoused therein. You've proven that yourself, unless you've actually read all 66 books by 40 different authors over thousands of years in the Bible. Please! "The odds are stacked in favor of evolution???" Are you thoroughly brainwashed then? Come to your senses! That's only true in your chosen worldview. There is no evidence of macro-evolution except in the little bubble of a worldview you've built around yourselves. Your "religion" flies in the face of thousands of years of history, science, and human existence. The burden of proof is on you. The thing you're all missing is CONTEXT. You can't pick and choose the facts you want and leave the rest of the surrounding circumstances. Sorry, I'm done now. Don't mean to hog the blog. :) By the way, a cave is not a building, the universe is not infinite, and yes the banana argument is weak, and thus easy to attack which explains why almost everyone here has decided to. Like a pack of lions attacking the weakest antelope who falls behind the herd. Easy target. Does anyone have anything of substance to offer? The oranges will never fall as described. You’ve put your faith in mathematics and chance and left moorings of sound judgment and common sense.

Cal: You don’t have to read Darwin’s Book to oppose the general ideas espoused therein. You’ve proven that yourself, unless you’ve actually read all 66 books by 40 different authors over thousands of years in the Bible. Please! “The odds are stacked in favor of evolution???” Are you thoroughly brainwashed then? Come to your senses! That’s only true in your chosen worldview. There is no evidence of macro-evolution except in the little bubble of a worldview you’ve built around yourselves. Your “religion” flies in the face of thousands of years of history, science, and human existence. The burden of proof is on you.

The thing you’re all missing is CONTEXT. You can’t pick and choose the facts you want and leave the rest of the surrounding circumstances.

Sorry, I’m done now. Don’t mean to hog the blog. :)

]]>