I don’t understand why you all hate God. Why don’t you believe He exists? I read in an earlier message that the Bible is filled with historical errors. Actually, it is very historically accurate. Christianity has been around since the beginning of time – it just didn’t have the name Christianity. The belief in God was the very first religion, until man sinned.
-COG
I don’t understand why you all hate God
Published by Bobby Henderson February 24th, 2008 in Hate Mail (and concerned criticism). 362 Comments
362 Responses to “I don’t understand why you all hate God”
Blackbard:
1) Yes, forgive the typographical error.
2) It’s not the intolerance which makes me feel bothered, but the trivial use of a great symbol which represents liberty and attacks any attempt at constitutional infringement.
3) I’d have to disagree since most bigots don’t have the same universal recognition and influence.
4) Here is the quote,”It might be more convenient for you to disregard the actions of a significant number of your fellow believers, but that would not be intellectually honest.” But don’t worry, I realized in retrospect that your intentions weren’t as I had initially accused, forgive my mistake and hypocrisy.
5) Yes, but it is the kind of message that is needs to be reinforced, because the irrational nature of some of the participants are contaminating arguably the most unique and influential since Ben Franklin’s “Poor Richard’s Almanack
Fr. Corpus Callosum
Put your glasses on…..
James
That is absurd and short minded.
Religion is regularly revised as new archeological are discovered which provides better insight into the Christian faith. Further more, many religions coexist with science and for you to state otherwise shows your method of consideration is as primitive as Fundamentalist Christians.
You should devote time to researching the points you make, before posting more misinformation and stop perpetuating ignorance.
Worteltaart
No one tried to deny you anything, the original poster was expressing an opinion and as narrow minded as it may have been, he is given that right & it is that right is the crux of FSM symbolism.
Read. Now.
Clearly you took the primitive methods of consideration with you.
If you know the context in which the scripture was originally authored and you pair that with researching the events of that time, then you’d see the logic and to this day it’s still relevant. No matter you belief, trying to argue biblical literalism without taking the time to review it in the original symbolic context, is just as primitive as the belief itself.
Lastly, reading the scriptures several times is meaningless if you can’t read it in the original language and text used while it was being authored.
El Karlito
When you science teacher said that you should recycle, he meant recycle aluminum, plastic, and paper, not redundant statements.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
HA! Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!
Idiot.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Darkcity, I think that the main problem is the fact that the majority of the Christians who make up the base of the Republican Party, are extremists. You only have to watch Fox News, or listen to Pat Robertson for about 15 minutes to become a little afraid of Christianity as a whole. That, coupled with the history of all monotheistic religions, with all of the Crusades, Jihads, inquisitions, and the burning of the Innocent as Witches, make it all to easy to imagine all Christians as forcing their religion on you. People are naturally drawn to making generalizations. Most of the people who make intelligent, constructive comments on this site, like BlackBard, Rachel, Me, and yourself, not to mention several of the People posting under the topic “You Dumb Bitch” (Read it, there is less hate in the comments, despite the abundance of hate in the letter) truly respect the ethic of non-violence and acceptance that Jesus preached. He spoke out against the practice of using God to squeeze the poor people for all of the money they possessed. It’s kinda the same thing that Martin Luther did to begin the Protestant reformation. I’m betting that less than half of the people posting on this site have actually purchased and read the Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, but I agree that most of the spewers of hatred should at least read the Eight “I’d Really Rather you Didn’ts on the Wikipedia article for The Gospel.
Three main groups of Pastafarians are jaded Christians(my group), Agnostics who oppose ID, (I think Bobby falls into this category, but I can not be sure, I have no official word from him.) and Atheists who hopped on the bandwagon specifically to bash Christianity (These are the bad/dumb people who use grammar that is as bad/worse than most of the hate mail.). We don’t hate God or Christians, except maybe the third group, we acknowledge the fact that people need God to cope with the possibility that when you die you may very well cease to exist. Religion provides two very important things, Hope and a Scapegoat, both of which are things people desperately need when bad things happen.
But there is something everyone, Pastafarian and Christian alike should remember, this is technically our Church. The internet is our place of worship, it is our main point of contact to our prophet. If someone went into a Christian church, a Muslim Mosque, or a Jewish temple and said that everything they believe is wrong and they’re all sinners/fools/generally bad people they’d be Crucified, Christians should know, that’s kinda what Jesus did. Pastafarianism may be something that has no merit as a monotheistic religion, heck, it may be something completely invalid, but if no one believed in the other major religions of the world, they would be too. When the next theological revolution occurs, all of the Religions of the world, Mono and Polytheistic, may become like the Greco-Roman pantheon, Mythology.
Thank you for listening to me, if anyone would like to get into a more in-depth discussion, my E-mail address is new_age_paladin@msn.com
His Noodlyness:
i i
~~
l l l
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Dang, my web portrait didn’t work
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
just like to reply to james’ little spiel on science…
although our empirical observations on our physical surroundings seem far more believable to enlightened, modern folks like us, they cannot be proven, and in a very real sense are just as subject to faith as organised religion is.
to be able to say something has been proven, it must be true in all cases thereof. as we have only witnessed some of the cases up until now in our very, very, very localised little corner of the universe, we can hardly logically deduce anything, let alone claim to have discovered an immortal truth (i.e gravity).
the whole system of sciences which govern our very existence (chemistry, physics, whatever) are based on a concept which cannot directly be seen, felt, heard, touched, tasted… this concept is the atom. all of modern science is based on a great theory, but thats all it is. so really, the mystic beliefs of anyone, anywhere, are just as valid as the periodic table.
sorry if im regurgitating someone else’s earlier arguments. i only read the last page of this thread.
also before someone busts my balls for being all pro religion or anti FSM, id just like to point out that i am a nihilist and consider both sides of this debate to be equally absurd. but when in rome.. eh?
RAmen.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
dark city media…you seem an extremely intelligent individual grasping at straws
bottom line is this…i dont fucking believe in jesus. that he existed, walked the earth or none of that shite. i agree with you on the fact that fundamentalists are the ones who impose a more direct threat to logic. the fact is, you can believe the shit jesus said, love one another, raise families, etc., without having to believe the ridiculous bullshit which surrounds his mythology…and it is bullshit, mate.
read this on you tube “the greatest story ever told-3 parts”; why go around calling yourself christian if you just like a lot of stuff that he said. you obviously(correct me if im wrong) believe jesus died on the cross for us, etc. WE dont! i dont need to take the time to know what part you believe is true or not. you give yourself away with the title christian. its a fucking myth man. just like all religions. keep an open mind. watch that video…………Praise the Flying Spaghetti Monster!!!!! what would cthulu
do????…………
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Most people assume too much. My noodly brothers please do not fall in the same mistake. Henderob is asuming we hate god. We love him, as El Karliito stated, we construe him as a Flying Spagetty Monster.
Some Christian fellows also assume that because they believe the Bible is true they can use it in conversations to other people, this is wrong. A person with a respectable level of shrewdness will pay few attention to the bible unless proven true and accurate. Some people assume that for proving some accuracies in the bible, all of it must be true, wrong! On the other side, one of the most precious characteristics of science is that it encourages people to disbelieve any theory and invites to disprove them. Did you ever meet a hard core Christian trying to disproof or challenge his own views?
Scientists do, Einstein didn’t see Newtonian physics complete he tried to find the missing parts and he arrived to general relativity. Everyone!, some cynicism about knowledge might be really constructive.
I was skeptical about the FSM but I realized that I was thinking with an empty tummy.
Yaaaargh
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
I hate you guys because every time I see the FSM I get so HUNGRY! Damn you all! Damn you all to hell!!!
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
quote
all else must be proved with thinking, logic, reason, experiment, because it is the only thing that people can be absolutely sure of.
/quote
Not really, you cannot prove logic to be infallible, because to do so you must you use logic, which is circular reasoning, which is in itself a contradiction of logic.
quote
Gravity is a law that governs planets to our very existence, and it can be proven.
/quote
No theory can really be proven… It just can withstand every try to disprove it. Also, it will be clear in few years if the current theory of gravity is correct (and dark matter really exist, not counting our assumptions around that and probability it exist) or we screwed up somewhere, and the theory will be needed to fix.
@Darkcitymedia
We don’t hate christians. They are just unpopular for acting like arseholes and like their morality is the only one that should be followed. They just need to open their eyes and see world as it is.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
hey. first of all id like to say that about the grey area’s between science and religion the only way they can both exist together is if we admit that in the case of evolution versus inteligent design evolution could easilybe the answer to how and not to why however i personaly do believe in god but im not some religiouse zelot i dont have problems with other people believing whateer they want as long as there beliefs dont impact upon my life in any major way. that said the argument of inteligent design is a bad arguement to begin. I will list why:
1) the whole idea of inteligent design is based on the watch argument however as we are a singular species fairly isolated in the universe (to my knowledge) it would be incorrect to judge anything man made as inteligent because inteligence is relevent. the simplest organisms are often the easiest to adapt to a situation and there for you could argue that the more inteligent a thing is the worse off due to its complexity.
2) the guy who made inteligent design theory was immediatly turned into a saint for a theory which makes no sense since as the watch did have a designer it could be plausable that the watch developed it would be an infintisimaly small percentage chance but in the eternity of time that infinitly small chance would become 1.
ultimatly believe what you want just realise that the two theorys arnt that incompatible (just like wave partical duality) personaly i dont believe in inteligent desigh but i do believe in god i just think it would help if we could just say people have different opinions and that religion should be left in religion lessons as science should never clash with religion even though there compatable they just shouldnt be allowed to combine since if scientists allow one piece of religion in every other argument will come flying in.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
I am glad Jerry Falwell is dead.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
To Rachel,
I have to back you on your most recent post & add my own perspective on the matter, by addressing those who target anyone who makes the slightest insinuation that they could be Christian with the mindless barbs. Now, before I do allow me to make it clear that I don’t think the majority of FSM participants take such trite measures, actually allow me to rephrase by saying I know for a fact that the majority of you don’t utilize such trite measures.
Now, to those who make such rash accusations, it’s time for you to wake up to your own hypocrisy. Not every Christian is against the fundamental truths which led to the creation of FSM and as a matter of fact, a great many Christians share the belief that ID has no place in any academic department other than theory or philosophy and even then it is probable that it should only be used in comparison.
If you recipricate hate towards any person other than the original source, then you are a bigot just as they are a bigot and there is no way to excuse such actions or get around that fact. Further more, even if you limit your hateful responses to the source, you may not be a bigot, but you’re just and narrow minded than they are… the only difference is most Christian Extremist don’t act as if they aren’t filled with hate and spite.
So use your brain for once and take ownership over your own instincts, by now returning the hate which they are fishing for in the first place, because in their twisted sense of morality, the hatred of others only validates their perverted beliefs.
Start walking your talk.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
the thing is… the bible isn’t that historically accurate. according to the bible, judaism must have been the first monotheistic religion… i mean, in the bible, it runs right up to the dawn of time. then christianity jumped off as (essentially) a sect of judaism. basically, they tossed aside monotheism (though no christian will ever believe that) in favor of a trinity (as in three, as in polytheism). but, as the bible says judaism was first and we have undeniable proof that Zoroastrianism was the first monotheistic religion, doesn’t that kind of hint that judaism (and, by relation, christianity) sprung up late in the game?
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Some people on this site are right. God did create the world. Who are you to doubt the word of Horus and Ra? When THE BOOK says that people were created from Ra’s semen, you should not doubt! It IS the word of God!
I’m sorry you hate God so much. But that’s not my problem. Ra created the world, Ra said it, and I believe it.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
@Darkcitymedia
“If you ever want to understand the beliefs of real Christians, then stop buying into the biblical literalism that is advocated by the Fundamentalists, then look at our doctrine through the use of biblical symbolism.”
If the bible is meant to be interpreted as parables, symbolism and metaphors as you stated, who is to say that the mere mention of God is not a metaphor as well. I doubt that you’ve analyzed the bible thoroughly enough to have enough of a feel for what the “author” meant when talking about a God. Perhaps God is everyone’s conscience?
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Intelligent people don’t hate something that doesn’t exist.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
wrong, lol
judaism wasnt even the first
the first historical accounts stem from egypt and a ruler who declared himself the son f the sun and through him all people would be damned or alled into the afterlife.
so you go worship you eternal zombie whom you muct eat the flesh of to get in his good favor justs o he wont kill you when he decides to come back….cuz tha makes so much sense
and ill just keep lovin the noodly one and laughing at you people who cant take jokes
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
“James: What the hell are you talking about?! There is endless amounts of evidence of that Jews were enslaved by the Egyptians. Further more, you should show people the respect of not tying them into your own bigotry.
No one has “imposed” their religion on you, they may have approached you on the matter, but they certainly don’t put a gun to your head while doing so. Further more, genderizing a deity is proof positive inability to conjure a meaningful point.
You shouldn’t be so concerned with what other people can or can’t say, because the extreme bigotry you just express far exceeds the actions of 99% of Christian Fundamentalists. Do you know what the difference is between Klansman and yourself? You spew equal hatred, exhibit identical idiocy, and you do so behind the robe and hood of online anonymity. While the semantics of your beliefs do nothing to place you above any Fundamentalist in and way, shape, or form.”
Hey yeah, I support the constitution, which means the freedom of worship AND the separation of church and state, and there are no Egyptian writings of Jewish slaves. And yes as a student if I am taught ID as even an equal to evolution it is a breach of my constitutional rights. (I’m not sure if I’m under 18 am I given rights such as the separation of church and state or free speech). And yes I was quite fundamentalist. Religion deals with the supernatural and science deals with the natural. I wasn’t thinking very well when I wrote the last post but the idea is that Religion and science are separate in the eyes of the government, they can be taught in theology class. Science is not a democracy and is only for fact or theories supported by fact and peer reviewed evidence. I believe I am not fundamentalist such as you though thank you for making sure that I’m not as big of an ignorant bigot as you.
J.T.S.
P.S. I realize that not all christians are fundamentalist, they have a right to worship and it’s fine as long as they don’t interfere in my life, after all, the only reason why I care is because I personally don’t like religion in my education.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
And yes we all love booze, even the bible dose GO BEER VOLCANO!!!!
“And Noah began to be an husband-man, and he planted a vineyard:” (9:21) and then Noah got wasted! Whoohoo!
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Hi sorry, genderizing?! That’s just the way I see things. Religion is supernatural and cannot ever be validated by science. So religion should deal with the supernatural though fundamentalist try to impose their religion on natural society.
-J.T.S.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
The FSM would kick your God’s ass. Want to fight about it for 2,000 years, heathen?
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
May the beer volcanoes bring you fresh, perfectly chilled beer.
If I were to posit myself a member of some group and wish to be respected, I would have a particular distaste for others who called themselves members who did things which I believed were not respectable.
While I can understand your vehement rejection of being associated with these others, you clearly choose to call yourself by the same name as they do. The other denominations also declare the differences and ask other people to read your entire mutual histories and understand them. Yet you use the same label and human curiosity has limitations.
There exist common fundamental issues which all Abrahamic religions fail to address by which I have yet to recieve adequate answers in spite of having personally educated hundreds of people to the point of choosing the potential of going to hell over living with the contradictions and contraindications.
As you profess yourself Christian, I shall focus the rest on you particular branch of the Abrahamic religion and perhaps you may see why I paint it with the same brush.
You say you believe in Kristos, which is the more enduring term for the concept of salvation by a savior deity. I assume you mean to believe in the merged concept, formed by the council of Nicea by emperor Constantine and the vote, rather than the older concept espoused by Prometheus, Horus, Krishna, Mithra, Dionysus, Attis, etc. who were also said to each bear several of the attributes of the merged form?
Then, may I ask, how are you certain that that particular emperor of Rome made the right choices? The Romans might argue it was because he was divine, but you clearly disagree?
Are you aware of the significance of the attributes of Kristos? Such as that December 25th is 3 days after winter solstice, the end of year? That, in the northern hemisphere the sun reaches the lowest point on December 22nd, stays dead for 3 days before it begins it’s ascent towards the azimuth of the sky? That the 3 wise men are the ancient names of 3 stars that shine most brightly every year on December 22nd? Are you also aware that the 12 apostles refer to the constellations and division of time? The “end of the jaguar, age of aquarius” etc. due to change in 2011/12. The halo represents the sun’s corona, as Kristos happens to be the sun deity.
These are but tidbits of information well known to atheists, do you indeed know your deity personally?
If I may, the more ancient form of Kristos imply that December 25th is not the celebration of Kristos’ birth, but it’s rebirth. This is why I would hypothesize that it doesn’t matter that Jesus’ birthday was sometime between May and August – you celebrate it on the 25th.
I might argue that Jesus as a person is only ever documented in three unique sources between 0 and 50 AD, one is so vague as to only mention “a man had caused a ruckus when he rode into town on a donkey”. Another is the apologies of Pontius Pilate to the emperor of Rome. The third is thought to be aliased “Paul”. Nobody knows the original authors name, but he was thought to have started writing at great length after 50AD.
Of note, post-infant life expectancy was roughly 30-60 years, probably closest to 45 years. Literacy rates at the time were roughly 1-5%, probably closest to 2% and I don’t recall any of the disciples being scribes, accountants or nobility at the time.
Patiently awaiting your reply,
Daniel
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Darkcitymedia said “The focus of Christianity is friends, family, and community.”
Really? Because I kind of thought the focus of Christianity is Jesus. I think he thought that too, which is why he said:
Luke 14:26
If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
@pastafari
So true, /agree
RAmen
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Pluveus,
There are just as many Democratic Christians as Republican Christians, just like there are tons of Democratic Atheists as there are Republicans Atheists. Political agenda has very little to do about the topic at hand and anyone who views the Republican party as some zealot fueled religious organization is severely exaggerating the situation. Pat Robertson doesn’t have any governmental influence, as a matter of fact more republicans laugh at him and see him as a joke than any other political organization.
Further more, what does Crusades, Jihad, and Witch hunts have absolutely nothing to do with you at all. No Christian is trying to burn you at the stake and to use events of centuries past to perpetuate your own hatred and that of others is absurd. After the most recent event you have listed has take place, all the way to the present There have been over 100 military actions with not one having to do with Christianity at all. People have been killing people throughout history, long before Christianity ever came into existence and they were killing people after Christianity came to pass. So to even suggest that Christianity is the reason behind all the ills of this world is idiotic.
Thanks for acknowledging me as a great thinker, but the truth of the matter is that when you look at Fundamentalist Christians, only a fraction of them are true extremists. While another small fraction are those who leave these absurd hate messages all over the internet. If you want things to change, then stop using the same fear mongering used by many Christians and afterwards, let us deal with the problem. By 2030, Fundamentalism will be all but gone from this earth because just as many Christians are sick of it as Atheists and non-Christians. We are doing the best we can to reverse the wrongs and mistake caused by the KJV teachings. So go have a beer or something, lol.
Burndan23,
You don’t have the foggiest damn clue as to what I believe or as to what you’re talking about. Further more, having spent over a decade of research in the field of Theology, do you really think I a) Give a flying fuck about a religious opinion being pitched by video on YouTube. b) That video is going to say anything that I haven’t already heard. c) I am so weak minded that I find spiritual beliefs from pseudo-intellectual online sources.
There are 12 major demonimations of Christianity and over 3000 various branches of Christianity. None of them teach the exact same thing and not all of them teach Biblical Literalism and I am sure your YouTube video didn’t mention that, you wanker.
Orcodrilo,
I challenge my own beliefs all the time, just as many others. Further more, not every Christian sees the scripture as a historical document nor do they feel the need to prove that God exists, because the moment that God is proven, our choice faith becomes fear of ccnsequence and if it was proven that God didn’t exist on Saturday, I’d still be in Church the next day, because the Concept of God is only a fraction of Christianity.
Sean,
The only reason religion and science doesn’t coexist is do to people who dont know how to interpret one or the other.
Brendan,
Again, the Bible was never written as a historical document. It is a series of Parables, Songs, Poems, and Metaphors made of both symbolic and encrypted messages.
KraftDinner,
You obviously have trouble reading because I have clearly said that at least 10 times in this thread alone.
James,
Since you sent me an email, your response will be sent in a reply.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Daniel Lewis,
You’re use of numerology to to validate your suggestion is as absurd as numerology itself outside of the cryptic use.
Yahzi,
I don’t know if you understand English, but that verse advocates my point, not yours.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Hmm, really. i didnt know that the bible was historically accurate, i thought it talks about stuff that happened before anyone was around to see it. Science has proof, not a book of fair tails designed to keep people in order!
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
James,
I also want to publicly apologies for my harsh words towards you.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
@Pluveus: Thanks for your message. That’s interesting about the three kinds of Pastafarians…so what inspires the “jaded Christians” who come here?
.
@Burndan23: You don’t believe in Jesus? Good for you. No one who’s carrying on a conversation now is trying to convert you (that I’ve seen). Believe what you want. Although your post concerns me a little. So “love your neighbor” is shit? Huh. “you obviously(correct me if im wrong) believe jesus died on the cross for us, etc. WE dont!” OK…like I said, good for you.
.
“i dont need to take the time to know what part you believe is true or not.” One might argue that I don’t need to take the time to know what you believe…in other words, I don’t really need to hear you announce that you don’t believe in Jesus.
.
“you give yourself away with the title christian.” I know you probably weren’t referring to me here, but I’ll respond: Yeah. I am a Christian. I “give away” that I worship Jesus. That’s not a secret, or I wouldn’t have announced it on the internet. I’m not ashamed to be a Christian, and if you respect me any less because I said that I am, you’re prejudiced. Bottom line is, your beliefs are as valid as mine, and mine are as valid as yours. I’m sorry if you’re unhappy with that.
.
@Yahzi: “I kind of thought the focus of Christianity is Jesus. I think he thought that too, which is why he said: Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.” The focus of Christianity is the teachings of Jesus. This passage means that God has to be more important than anything else in a believer’s life. In Christianity, Jesus is considered to be God, so if Jesus is the most important part of one’s life, one must follow his teachings, which stress the importance of friends, family, and community. And taking quotes completely out of context is never a good method by which to attempt to understand them.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
There’s enough annoying,self loving,bigoted,imposing,hate spewing,hypocritic,blind faithful people in the world as it is. in short i would rather burn in hell with the pagan hero’s of old then suffer in heaven with a bunch of holier then tho art asses. And if i remember correctly there were jews before there were christians and before jews there were pagans; so saying that Christianity was the first religion is pretty stupid considering jesus was born only 2008 years ago so are you saying that everything was created when jesus was born? Pray to your Vain Yaweh that i don’t find your stupid bigoted ass oneday.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
‘Tar’ says:
“Anyway, I’ve been curious to figure this out, but if humanity started with two white people (Adam and Eve), where does Asians and Africans come from (as with other nationalities)? I doubt thin eyes and dark skin came out of nowhere.”
If Adam & Eve actually existed, who says they were white? Scientists believe humanity originated in Africa. And wasn’t Jesus (if he existed) of Middle Eastern descent?
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Irate Pirate,
The Bible isn’t made up of Fairy Tales and the fact that you do is a testament to your intellectual and philosophical short-comings, they are symbolic verses with symbolic encryption which was used during a time of oppression, so they were authored as a means to pass on information.
So grow up.
Zach,
you should recite that quasi-diatribe while in front of a mirror.
LR,
What the hell are you talking about? No one has said that Jesus is white in this thread.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
COG —
We don’t hate God. We all love the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Geez!
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Rachel,
.
Thanks for your post. You said, “Beliefs cannot kill people. A “practice, a way seeing the world, the place of people and things in it and the relationship of one to the other” cannot kill people. Not to say that ideas aren’t important, but it takes people to act upon those ideas for them to have effects, positive or negative. Yes, Christians have done terrible things in the name of their religion. This is not the fault of Christianity itself (which is clearly a nonviolent religion), but the fault of human evil.”
.
My point was that ideas have consequences. Beliefs have consequences. Religion is more than just a set of beliefs. As you quote me above, religion requires a “practice” – people to act upon the tenets of their religion. Simply believing does not make for a religion. Action is required. People do not just act “in the name of their religion.” Their actions may reflect their religion. It is unreasonable to maintain that when people are good, it is attributable to their religion, while when they are bad, it is the fault of human evil.
.
You said, “The Crusades, for example – if Christianity and Islam had never existed, those people would probably still have been killing each other for some other reason.” We don’t know one way or the other. We do know, however, that religious leaders used their religion as a means to incite believers to war on each other. And, believers acted on their beliefs to justify going to war, killing and being killed, themselves. This applied to both the Christians and Muslims.
.
You quoted me as stating, “The practice of many Christians has been, and often still is, to regard any deviation from their view of the world and “set of mortal virtues” as being displeasing to God, subjecting deviants to eternal damnation if they do not change their ways. I consider this to be evil, in itself.” Although you may not like it, this is what a very large number of people believe that God has told them (through the Bible). To them, that is the truth. Period. It would be wrong for them to treat members of another religion as inferior, naturally, but if they simply believe that others are wrong, what harm does that do to anyone else?
.
You are right that believing, by itself, does no harm. The point I have been trying to make is that people do act upon their beliefs. You said that, “It would be wrong for them (Christians) to treat members of another religion as inferior…” Yes it would, but there are so many examples of “well-meaning” Christians acting on such beliefs with terrible consequences that it fills many books. The “mission system” of colonization by the Catholic Church in the seventeen and eighteen hundreds in the New World that enslaved and deprived native Americans of their culture and religion easily comes to mind. I could go on, but I am sure you get the idea.
.
One point of clarification, before your or anyone else gets the idea that I am writing about only Christians, please understand this. I view all “True Believers” as the problem. Anyone who claims to have “The Truth” should not be trusted. He/she is the most dangerous.
.
The knowing the questions is always more important than knowing the answers.
.
RAmen
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Sounds like somebody doesn’t like reading that their perspectives are
unlikely to be correct.
Despite the fact that there have been many terrible atrocities done by humans
against other humans that may not have been directly attributed to a fundamental
religious scripture does not change the fact that the proponent mechanizing forces
are ALWAYS driven by their conscious and unconscious beliefs. Many of the current
atrocities are committed for the purpose of economic gain; if not fully to change the
economic systems of an unwilling general populace by those who feel their
interpretation of reality and constructive capability exceeds those of the citizens who
make the contribution to their corresponding systemic belief.
The danger word is ‘belief’. This entitles a common thought that is immune to
persuasion from outside influences. For our survival, at least, this is a dangerous
propoal to adhere to. Why have ‘belief’’s when you can have ‘idea’’s, whether they
be good or bad; contructive of destructive, astute or retarted in comprehension; they
allow for changed as experience is percieved, (experienced).
Religious doctrines base truth of reality on very outdated primary sources that
were likely written by DMT-rich denizens, or entirely dangerous schizophrenics, as you
see fit through reading. Science does less, but often evidence is formed around the
theory as opposed to the theory being fit to the evidence. This is a dangerous rationale.
The Big Bang theory currently accepted is a good ‘non-religious’ example. Many scientists
are trying to fit their data to the theory as opposed to actually keeping objective standpoint.
This doesn’t mean the data is wrong, much of it is quite consistent with current objective
findings; but when one bases their beliefs around something they percieve to be reality,
regarless of evidence for such an ideas credence to truth/reality, they are making the same
mistake that makes many of us scared to wake up in the morning with the possibility of
being killed by Judaic/Islamic/Chrisian warriors who value their lives so little that they
are willing to spin the high-roller table with hope that they will be rewarded in an afterlife
that NONE of them have evidence of, aside from compromising documents that give
virtue to hartred based on abstract thought and have provided a good scenery for the
worst examples of human nature to EVER BE REALIZED IN THE ENTIRETY OF OUR
HISTORY AS A SPECIES CAPABLE OF UNDERSTANDING SUBJECTIVE PAIN.
I may not be qualified as a religious or philosophical scholar, but I have legally died twice.
Both times from unintentional drug overdose using prescribed substances. I do remember what
happened during my “deaths”, as vague as it was, I remember a sense very similar to
that which was there before I was born into this state as a human. I value my life. I value my life
enough to be able to tell people that have been important to me in this life that I love them, and to
then support them. There is a real higher power, and this power is not represented in ANY
currently accepted ‘HOLY’ documents. As soon as such a thing claims infalliablility, it looses any
credentials one may believe/accept.
But I would not trade my life for the destructruction of the human species in hope of better later…
once it’s way, way, way, way too late for myself. Possibly for everyone else.
~Monk
nudemonkei@nc.rr.com
May all of us one day live in a unity that current systems of faith
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
I don’t hate God. Hating something that doesn’t exist makes no sense at all. I also don’t hate people with faith. I just don’t agree with them.
I do get slightly annoyed by the introduction of unnecessary emotion into the whole issue. Why does it have to involve love or hate or any other emotion? Why can I not rationally and calmly hold a different opinion?
Christianity is not the oldest religion. It’s the second youngest of the major religions (I’m discounting scientology and th other weird cults for the purposes of this post). In fact, there is a strong case that it’s not really a religion of its own at all. The mythology is basically Jewish and the philosophy is a blending of Jewish and Buddhist ideas which all predate Christ. Christ didn’t really say anything that hadn’t already been said by Moses or Buddha.
Moses said – worship good and follow his rules and you’ll get into heaven
Buddha said – stop worrying about how rich you are and try to be nice to other people and you’ll live a good life
Jesus said – er, yeah, what those guys said
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Ah. religious people. It took them 40 years to cross the desert which would be crossed (even in that time) in 10 days (yeah, I’m talking about Moses leading “chosen people”).
Should I say anything more about them?
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
@Darkcitymedia
We have the same amount of evidence for existance of Jesus as for existance of FSM.
And religions ARE about gods. And worshiping them. If your parents were brainwashing you since you were born with religion, it’s really hard to see something beyond things you were brainwashed to see.
I was raised in that way. When I reached thinking age, I grow up and tossed the religion aside; everything was against it. It was kind of opening your eyes and realizing that you can see.
I have no problem with religion, but when morons want to make ID science, I must ask why?
ID is science as much I am planet.
I love retards who say that our world is too complex to appear naturally, and take that as an argument for ID. That’s just retarded. If we’re too complex to appear naturally, then how god appeared out of nothing when he is more complex than us? He appeared naturally? Then, there can be many gods. Then if something that complex can appear naturally how can’t we? God was always there? For all we know time doesn’t exist outside our universe, so God couldn’t been there always before he created time?
“Religion is considered by common people as true, by wise as false and by rulers as useful.”
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
OPosum,
No, actually you don’t have the same amount of evidence for the existence of the Galilean Teacher Jesus who is the symbolic message in the New Covenant gospels as you do for FSM. I can’t provide historical documentation that Jesus was the conduit of miracles which is stated in biblical scripture, but I can provide documentation of his existence at the time claimed.
Further more, no deities are nothing more than celestial enforment of morals established by religion, while religion itself is centered around the moral virtues and community which choose to follow and practice the virtues and rituals associated with the morals.
Next, no one has brain washed me, I took the time to educate myself and provide myself with the necessary tools to investigate my beliefs before I adopted my beliefs. While you just tossed the literalist interpretation you were provided for science. Therefore your thought and consideration on the matter went no further than the primal consideration of fundamentalists, which alone places question on your personal scientific understanding.
If you were unable to spot the symbolism and encrypted teachings provided in the original gospels, while unable to utilize gematria and all other encrypted legends to decipher these teachings…
then the only retard you’ve identified is yourself.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Darkcitymedia,
Thanks, I don’t think I received a reply, sorry, just no ID in schools. Religion is cool it can just be used to control people sometimes. Which I guess I’m apart of now. Whatever, thanks, sorry for my cursing, I just do that kind of thing. I still disagree with you.
-J.T.S.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
oposum
Is right there is the same amout of evidence that god is really exist or is it just fsm, it can even be an icecream crapping taco for all i know. i know one thing thought…MAN CREATED GOD NOT GOD CREATED MAN. just like oposum hell is just to scare you into beliving that god exist and the church gets monye from gov. and donations jews christans and mulims are way better then sincetolgly and inteligant disingh shit. all the religons to me seem like a load of shit.FSM is the best. becuse he can kick your gods ASS. remember… MAN CREATED GOD NOT GOD CREATED MAN! RAMEN!
-R.A.S
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
he should go stick his hand into a buring bush a see what happens i know what happens. YOU WILL BURN YOUR FUCKING HAND OFF THE BIBLE IS FLAWED.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
The best hatemail comes from people who have no idea what they’re talking about.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
I don’t know who created this site or for what readon this site was created but all i know is that you are trying to imply that people cannot prove the spaghetti wateva monster does not exist. Although noone can really prove a negative unless maybe scientifically. But as for proving God exists, noone can really prove that. Just the same as someone cannot prove to a blind person that the moon and the stars are really there. Just as a blind man cannot see the moon and the stars, there fore a spiritually blind person cannot be led to proof that God exists. simply because they are blind to it and they can’t see. Its all about FAITH.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
zach- love you. however, jesus wasn’t born 2008 years ago. he was created about 1650 years ago. you know somewhere around there when constantine needed to find a way to save the failing rome, at the concil of neici (or however the fuck it is spelled). ask a christian about that shit. bet they won’t know…
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
brendan: Show me a Bible verse that says Judaism was the first religion and I’ll believe you. As far as I know, there is none. And Christians do believe in one God, but that there are different ways to think about God, and that God has shown himself to people in different ways over time (as the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit). I would love to explain this to you in more detail if you want, but if you just like to complain about Christianity and don’t care if you know what the heck you’re talking about, I won’t waste my time.
.
KraftDinner: In my opinion, that’s a valid thought. No one should claim they know everything about the Bible and what its authors wanted readers to get out of it.
.
I’ll be back soon to reply to more…
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Darkcitymedia.
You have twice (so far) referred to peoples inability to read the messages your are posting (”You obviously have trouble reading because….” and “I don’t know if you understand English, but that”).
Now, I don’t want to be pedantic but unfortunately it’s in my nature so here goes. Don’t you think you should learn to write properly? So that people don’t give up reading your posts through sheer frustration at the twisted misspelled rant you seem to favour? I can almost see the spittle leaving your lips as you shout out your desperate defence for what is essentially your imaginary friend.
A few mistakes here and there are to be expected, but a tiny bit of proof reading and maybe a little thought (if you haven’t used it all up “challenging” your faith) would enable you to express your ideas in a manner which is easy to read and properly communicative.
A quick comment on fundamentalism before I go. You say “By 2030, Fundamentalism will be all but gone from this earth because just as many Christians are sick of it as Atheists and non-Christians”. Well, you’re fundamentally wrong. Fundamentalism only exists because of religion. If you insist that there is an unquestionable truth i.e God, then you have all the ingredients to create a fundamentalist. God is the framework on which people who are afraid of death hang their rather sad little delusional curtains to block the rather fantastic truth of life. We got lucky! We won the lottery and we’ve got about 70 years to make the most of it. Then it’s over. Ever wonder why you can’t remember Ancient Egypt? It’s because you didn’t exist then, and this state of affairs will be reinstated when you cease to exist again. Why do you people have such a difficult time figuring this out?
Erm, can’t be arsed to carry on for now.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Daniel: I’m not sure who you’re saying calls him/herself a Christian, but I do so I’d like to respond. I don’t call myself a Christian because I want to be grouped with any particular type of person. I worship Jesus, and that is all I mean by using the word “Christian”. It is unreasonable to prefer that people not assume more about me because of this one label? As for the rest of your post, I’m a little confused as to what you’re trying to prove. Just because the New Testament was probably not written before 50 AD doesn’t make it worthy of complete dismissal. None of what you said “disproves” Christianity in any way, if that’s what you’re attempting to do.
.
Blackbard: You said, “It is unreasonable to maintain that when people are good, it is attributable to their religion, while when they are bad, it is the fault of human evil.” I agree with this; I don’t think I ever said that good qualities in people are all due to religion. About half my family is not religious but they are still great people.
.
“I view all “True Believers” as the problem. Anyone who claims to have “The Truth” should not be trusted. He/she is the most dangerous.” Why do you assume that one cannot know the truth? By saying this, aren’t you claiming to know the truth?
.
I agree with most of the rest of your post and I don’t want to debate just for the sake of debating. I just don’t think that a person’s religion should be immediately blamed for that person’s rudeness (or anything else you don’t like), when it could be due to any number of things (bad parenting, for example).
.
Nudemonkei: “There is a real higher power, and this power is not represented in ANY
currently accepted ‘HOLY’ documents.” Wow. I’m curious as to what authority you have to say this…?
.
TheMaskedAvenger: Christianity isn’t just about Jesus’ teachings.
.
OPosum: “We have the same amount of evidence for existance of Jesus as for existance of FSM.” No you don’t. There are historical records of Jesus’ life as a man on earth. You can choose not to believe them, but they actually exist. You can claim the FSM was sighted by Henderson, but this is just one person claiming to have seen God. If you had said, “We have the same amount of evidence for the existence of the Christian God as for the existence of FSM”, that would have been valid.
.
“If your parents were brainwashing you since you were born with religion, it’s really hard to see something beyond things you were brainwashed to see.” You’re probably not talking to me here, but neither of my parents believes in God (as far as I know). I became a Christian at age 15. You’re not the only one who thinks.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Rachel
Mar 16th, 2008 at 9:23 am
brendan: Show me a Bible verse that says Judaism was the first religion and I’ll believe you. As far as I know, there is none.
*
Ever read the old testament?? Quite a few verses in there I believe…
*
But then I never specialised in religious history, but I do know I read of quite a few religions pre-dating both judaism and therefore christianity. They just were wiped out before our time, that’s all.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
James,
There is no need to apologize for your cursing. This is a topic which is both fueled and contaminated by the passion of our knowledge and beliefs, so people are bound to become disgruntled.
I have to agree with you, James, that thought conditioning is applied throughout many Christian denominations. Just understand that there are Christians, who are working towards restoring that which has been taken and can be restored and believe me when I say there are more Christians working towards restoration than you’ll ever know.
Christian doctrine across the board has been going through gradual changes over the past decade, but since we’re combating 400 years of extreme thought conditioning, it can’t be restored overnight. An example of these changes would be the Azusa Street Pentecostals, who are the fastest growing denomination. 10 years ago they were preaching mono-righteousness, burning books, ordering their members to not own TV’s, listen to any music that wasn’t authored by pentecostals, ordering their women to never cut their hair, never wear any pants or dresses cut above the knee, while ordering their men to remain clean shaven, never wear shorts, tank tops, and keep their hair trimmed.
Now they are advocating Buddhism, removed their ban on literature, while teaching that their religious beliefs aren’t the only religious beliefs which should be deemed as holy.
So understand that you’re not the only people combating the oppression of fundamentalism, there are many Christians who are in the battle next to you and to see this, all you have to do is turn your head.
Robert,
Clearly the FSM message has reached the inbred colonies of the West Virginian Appalachian Mountains.
Justme,
This site is centered around the constitutional amendments & US citizens right to not have their children subjected to religious ideology that they don’t practice or believe.
Usually I rip into naive Christians who attack this site and it’s community members, but I can tell that you had the good intentions with your post. So my advice is that you look into the ideals of this FSM further and understand that just like Christians, the vast majority of community members here are good and friendly people with a bad apple here or there.
This conflict isn’t fueled by personal belief, it’s fueled by misconception and misunderstanding.
Jessica,
What was the point of referencing an offshoot of trivial knowledge that the general public normally wouldn’t know?
Rachel,
Well this really isn’t to Rachel, but rather to everyone in this comment thread who’re arguing over which religion was first. So allow me to put an end to this debate for you…
The eldest documented religion is “Vedas.”
Vedas is the Ancient Indian which evolved into Hindu Dharmaism. Followed by Egyptian Polytheism & Zoomorphism.
Some have argued that Egyptian Polytheism was crafted as a delivery system for Egyptian laws of the time, but there is ritual practice, celestial icons/deities, and pantheons of devotion. Therefore it does meet the criterion standard of being called a “religion.”
Both Vedas and Egyptian Polytheism appeared 3000 years before Judaism.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0