While I had originally planned on attempting to critique your theory that a gigantic monster made of spaghetti created the world, I found that it wan’t so much a theory as a statement which you have made and which you have offered no evidence for except some vague reference to some book which you have not shown to actually exist. Since the only discernable tenet of FSMism is that an SM created the world, I would posit that FSMism would fall under the umbrella of ID and therefore does not need to receive special consideration apart from ID in the classroom. Christianity, Islam, Judaism, and FSMism all hold substantially similar viewpoints in their claim that a supernatural being was the first cause.
A better countervailing viewpoint to atheistic macroevolution’s claims of an eternal universe, abiogenesis, and decent through modification, would be that the universe, earth, and life simply popped into existence uncaused with no explanation. This would actually be a more logical inference based on overwhelming observable evidence such as the big bang theory, the cambrian explosion, Pasteur’s experiments which proved life does not spring from non-living matter and the biological fact that cross species reproduction cannot occur. Furthermore it would not posit a metaphysical explanation for existence as FSMism, Christianity, Judaism, and Islam do, nor would it be in conflict with the known laws of physics, mathematics, historical geology, and biology.
Of course the idea that our universe, earth, and life just popped into existence uncaused, seems as ignorant as believing a walking bread beast did it.
-ryan
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An elaborate spoof on Intelligent Design, The Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster is neither too elaborate nor too spoofy to succeed in nailing the fallacies of ID. It's even wackier than Jonathan Swift's suggestion that the Irish eat their children as a way to keep them from being a burden, and it may offend just as many people, but Henderson, described elsewhere as a 25-year-old "out-of-work physics major," puts satire to the same serious use that Swift did. Oh, yes, it is very funny. -- Scientific American
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“Of course the idea that our universe, earth, and life just popped into existence uncaused, seems as ignorant as believing a walking bread beast did it.”
smells like a strawman.
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OMG WBB is it realated to the FSM? are they brothers? just asking….
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“…except some vague reference to some book which you have not shown to actually exist. ”
Wow… He almost makes it sound like Mormanism.
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Hopefully I don’t ‘miss the point’ here as I’ve had about 2 hours sleep over the last couple of days (insomnia sucks donkey balls). I’m about to have a Fight Club moment and beat the living smeg out of myself. It probably still won’t be as painfull as some of this rubbish.
First up, I’d like to point out that the big bang is oservable. There have been some amazing studies using advance radio telescopy on the behaviour of radiation at the edge of the universe. This has also shown that that the expansion of the universe is slowing. (bear with me, my fatigue addled brain is reaching a point). This leads to the theory (yeah I said the ‘T’ word) that the big bang may be a reoccuring process and also that time may be circilar and not linear.
If I’m wrong please feel free to shoot me down, I know of at least one physicist who reads these boards regularly (hey Owen :) ).
Secondly there has to be a consensus on where life actually begins. I belive IDers confuse ‘life’ with ’sentience’. Life can actually be traced down to self replicating amino acids. I am not familiar with this experiment conducted by Pasteur (I led a sheltered childhood) but I think the point he was trying to make was that life could not spontaneously generate under everyday conditions otherwise there’d be holes in the argument you could drive a bus through.
Please correct me if I’m wrong.
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@ Brittni_Lover_of_RAmen
I have compiled a Ryan to English translation for you.
“While I had originally planned on attempting to critique your theory that a gigantic monster made of spaghetti created the world, I found that it wan’t so much a theory as a statement which you have made and which you have offered no evidence for except some vague reference to some book which you have not shown to actually exist.”
Translation: I planned on making fun of the Flying Spaghetti Monster and His followers, but I feel that it is a waste of time.
“Since the only discernable tenet of FSMism is that an SM created the world, I would posit that FSMism would fall under the umbrella of ID and therefore does not need to receive special consideration apart from ID in the classroom.”
Translation: Since the Flying Spaghetti Monster created the world, FSMism and ID are the same.
“Christianity, Islam, Judaism, and FSMism all hold substantially similar viewpoints in their claim that a supernatural being was the first cause.”
Translation: See the translation listed above + more religions
“A better countervailing viewpoint to atheistic macroevolution’s claims of an eternal universe, abiogenesis, and decent through modification, would be that the universe, earth, and life simply popped into existence uncaused with no explanation.”
Translation: A better argument against atheism would be that life came from nothing.
“This would actually be a more logical inference based on overwhelming observable evidence such as the big bang theory, the cambrian explosion, Pasteur’s experiments which proved life does not spring from non-living matter and the biological fact that cross species reproduction cannot occur.”
Translation: ???? Read other posts to see what is wrong with this sentence.
“Furthermore it would not posit a metaphysical explanation for existence as FSMism, Christianity, Judaism, and Islam do, nor would it be in conflict with the known laws of physics, mathematics, historical geology, and biology.”
Translation: You should argue that life came from nothing because it would not agree with religion but would also not be in conflict with science.
“Of course the idea that our universe, earth, and life just popped into existence uncaused, seems as ignorant as believing a walking bread beast did it.”
Translation: Religion and Science are both ignorant.
Anyway, I hope this helps. As for Ryan, you should burn your thesaurus, and pick up the Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
RAmen
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@El Peatieablo
Just want to correct you when you said “Macroevolution isn’t a real term, it was invented by creationists to discredit ideas they didn’t like while still being able to say they support science”
Actually it is:
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/macroevolution.html
It is just that creationists are misusing the term.
RAmen!
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While I originally planned to thwart your silly little rebuttal I realized that you are a retarded, self absorbed, luddite. I know you have a dictionary, you just know how to use it.
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@ET, the Extra Terrestrial
Feb 4th, 2008 at 10:29 am
“observable evidence such as the big bang theory”
Umm, observable evidence? The Big Bang theory?
—Actually there is observable evidence of the big bang. There is sound echoing across the univers that is picked up by massive ear-horns. And it is widely accepted that galaxies are trackable in their movements and they all seem to be moving away from the same point-of-origin.
So, yes, observable.
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Sounds very like most religion to me – no proof, lots of heresay and plenty of charisma?
I love it – long live the FSM!
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i love the nice letters we get sometimes,makes a nice change of pace,thanks ryan.
be touched by his noodly appendage,Ramen
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Saint Garlic Bread Beast…… Has a nice ring to it. Maybe we should canonize a few saints; Saint Red Pepper Flakes sounded nice too. I’m partial to Saint Parmissan but Saint Romano might be a good addition.
.
Of course this may negatively impact the Church of FSM by causing rifts between believers who patronize one saint over another. Eventually the entire world could be engulfed in the largest food fight in history. Who would want to clean that up?
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A 10 on the unintentional comedy scale. Ryan, I can’t help but notice you mentioned “Macaroni evolution” in your post. Pure heresy, my friend.
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ryan,
While you do posit a valid argument, you fail to posit the truth. While all the other theories you posit are technically valid, what you don’t seem to realize is that all are wrong except for Pastafarianism. May his noodly appendage re-posit you before it’s too late. (Actually, you’ll still probably make into the FSM afterlife even if you don’t believe, he’s really a pretty cool diety.)
Posit?
(Honestly, who uses “posit” twice in the same argument?)
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@zorbathedwarfsmasher. I’m no physcist, but I do follow the development of cosmological theory in places like Scientific American, History Channel and the like. I believe the prevailing theory is that the rate of expansion of the universe is actually speeding up. Scientiests attribute it to the agency of “Dark Energy” (no not the kind Dick Cheney radiates).
As near as I can tell this dark energy is a repulsive force embedded into the fabric of space-time which is causing space time (and anything else that exists within in, like say matter) to accelerate away from everytihg at an increasing rate. Recently, the theory has even been advanced that at some point in the distant future space time will expand so drasticly that the builing blocks of matter (proton, neutrons, etc) will be ripped apart throughout the universe. They are calling this phenonenon “the big rip”. Just thought you’d like to be informed.
Ramen
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I loved reading that mail. It is refreshing to see someone so intelligant, that even you people cannot argue with, appart from little comments. It appears that no one has been able to compete so far…
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How dare you say that the Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster does not exist! You can buy it at Barnes and Nobles. Second of all, he’s not made of bread, he’s made of spaghetti. Saying that they are the same is like saying graphite is the same as diamonds.
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While I was originally going to profess my hope that ryan will be touched by His noodly appendage, it seems that, whether he realizes it or not, ryan is already a full-fledged Pastafarian, and have been touched by His noodly appendage in every way imaginable.
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Just look at his post, it’s like he’s reading straight from the gospel, excepting the belief in FSM part. But it’s ok, being a spagnostic is not a crime.
.
By the way, Pasteur’s experiments proved life does not spring from a given random non-living matter under certain conditions. So sure, it disproved the popular theory of that time that living things just pop into existence all the time. Proving that abiogenesis is -impossible- on the other hand, is about as hard as proving the impossibility of the Flying Spaghetti Monster Himself, or, say, the Abrahamic God.
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@Christian Warrior are you that dense? No wonder Christian fundamentalists are crazy or stupid or both. Even if you accept Ryan’s thought that FSM is no different then Christianity, Islam, Judaism, he is in fact still staying FSM is just as likely as your religion.
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This means that it still should not be taught is science class and FSM is just as real as Christianity. So I am happy to see you agree with Ryan because that means you support us too without even realizing it.
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Keep up the good fight with letting all FSM is a real religion. Oh yeah “Christian Warrior” yeah that is Christ like. He would be ashamed of you.!
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RAmen!
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If cross species reproduct does not occure then what is a Mule or a Liger.
HUH… Something to think about…..Long live the Pasta
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This is bullshit! Master Chief owns you in halo so smoke my pole!!!
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Hello humans, i am the arbiter from the convenent. To tell the truth… there is no religion only the great rings of Halo. By activating the ring we can all go on the great journey.
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Speak softly and carry some big words?
While I had originally planned to take your post seriously, Ryan, I realised your cards were on the table, as it were, by the end of your first sentence. The purpose of ‘big words’ is to make your argument more clear, not to sound ‘all grand and clever like’. So for example “statement which you have made and which you have offered no evidence for…” might be expressed as “unsupported assertion”, and therein lies the point (sorry, therein lies the principal satirical tenet). Perhaps you might give some consideration to the closing sentence of Bobby Henderson’s letter to the Kansas School Board. The book is ISBN 0812976568 or ISBN-13 9780812976564, by the way.
Prior to assembling a great heap of ‘big words’ in order to lend your argument more apparent weight, such an argument might benefit from ensuring your understanding of some of the ‘little words’. Cross-species reproduction does not occur, for example, because that is precisely what speciation means. Species boundaries are not a ‘fact of nature’, they are the lines we draw in our classification systems to delineate where viable fertilisation does and does not occur. In citing experiments by Pasteur (since whose time there has been quite a lot of water under the bridge of biology research) perhaps you could include some contextual information in order to make clear how this case might be relevant to your argument. What, for example, is the definition of ‘life’ in this circumstance? Similarly, abiogenesis rather begs for clear definitions of exactly what should be considered animate as opposed to inanimate matter, self-replication perhaps, the ability of an organised unit to slow its own rate of entropy? Surely it would help in building a robust argument to be sure that it rests on a firm foundation, from which point you might then go on to examine concepts such as metaphysics, which, by the way, is not synonymous with theism, or indeed the ‘Cambrian explosion’, which you seem to be implying is evidence against natural selection, perhaps you could describe to us less well educated folk how this might be so?
My final note is principally for the attention of ‘Christian Warrior’, that is to observe that there is a wide gulf between faux-intellectualism and thinking. I would suggest that “no one has been able to compete so far” because none of us are skilled enough in sheep-shearing to have been able to cut through all that wool.
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“If it hasn’t been clear up to this point, the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster is entirely a spoof on real religion and religious followers; Henderson was clearly taking advantage of the lack of methodological evidence supporting Intelligent Design in an attempt to expose its fallacies as a scientific theory.”
Agreed? This is such a joke in my opinion. So where did HE come from if HE made the universe. Is there another universe HE came from?
At least the other religions make sense.
:/
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Stupid spagetti worshipers. I make spagetti, it doesnt make me.youre relegion is a load of bullcrap.I hope you all burn in hell for your neglect.
AMEN!
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I enjoyed reading Ryans letter.
I disagree with some previous responses.
Ryan did not comletly miss the point.
But he did miss.
Read on Ryan, You’re a thinking man and thats rare in the mail posted here.
You’ll get there. You’ll be talking like a pirate soon.
(and helping keep prayer out of school and defending the Conststution)
Aarrr!
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Meatball eater,
You got it wrong. Hell does not have fire, so how could we “burn?” Hell has stale beer, etc. Not too terrible, but not the best ending.
.
That said, what I want to know from you is why all the animosity? Why is it important to you who (what?) anyone worships?
.
RAmen
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Uhm, it’s Pastafarian not FSMism. Also, do we need proof? No other religion has “Proof”.
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I have Just conducted a Scientific experiment that may shock followers of Pasture, causing life to spring forth from non-animate carbon. Through careful use of lenses I have focused solar energy upon the carbon and it produced a living being. I assume this thing known as “fire” to be a living being of pure energy as it has shown capacity to reproduce and consume oxygen and carbon while generally doing the things that living things do. I noticed the poor thing grew weak in the absence of food so I offered it a few blades of grass and it seemed pleased growing larger and healthier. I was overwhelmed so I consulted the nearest authority i could find a cold pot of noodles, meatballs, and sauce… after allowing the pot of noodles to closely examine this new life all seemed well pleased and the sauce became far more savory and appealing. Unfortunately while consulting with the noodles my new friend the fire quietly passed away probably into the afterlife or wherever it is that energy goes when its gone. I hope that the reader will take time to value the noble sacrifices of the energy beings that provide the heat that cooks the holy noodles. For a noodle that is uncooked is rigid and will break but a noodle that has learned the lessons of water and fire will bend and stay whole, even if you stab it with a fork and twirl it about a bit.
I would also like to point out that the great fire in the sky called the sun or “Sol” or “Ra” or whatever you like has shown up in churches for a very long time as both a god and as a “undercover” god… Behold the priest of Ra wears a halo or sun disk just like the one the baby Jesus wears. Following this deeper sun worship with it’s emphasis on halo I can only say that it’s probable that the FSM is the product of Master chef (who may have appeared in a halo with a slightly misspelled name) solving the who created the creator as the chef made the FSM perhaps giving it to the holy child who flung the noodle and made a big mess including everything that exists… Something to ponder in any case.
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Dear Ryan,
From your comments I can tell that you are a very educated person. Congratulations. You may actually have what it takes to convert to FSMism. I do not appreciate you putting us in the same in the same footing as the other religions because:
We have not killed in the name of His Noodlyness
We have no opressed in the name of His Noodlyness
We have a sinless life
We are free
We have been touched by His noodly appendage
We are pirates……Aarrrr!
By the way Ryan, I assume you are aware that, in the search of a “theory of everything”, string theory promisses to be able to explain one or two things. ” String ” -> this is no coincidence. His Noodlyness always showed us the way. We just did not want to see. His Noodlyness is a perfect, beautifull expression of strings!
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@ Meatball eater
SpagHetti. It’s spaghetti. With an H, as in Hell, which you should know all about, since you’re condemning us to it. Oh yes, and there’s two Ps in worshippers. And it’s spelt religion.
Niggling spelling errors aside, a few theological/philosophical points.
1. Yes, you THINK you make spaghetti, but how do you know it isn’t all an elaborate ruse by the FSM?
2. I don’t really think the Norwegians would appreciate you setting fire to every Pastafarian there is. Not in their country, anyway.
3. A searing argument, that it is all ‘a load of bullcrap’. Perhaps the whole world is all a load of bullcrap. Interesting philosophical point there. I would be interested to know if you apply this philosophy to all religions that aren’t yours, and how.
4. Would you like to explain how spaghetti is stupid? And why anyone would worship idiotic spaghetti?
5. I’d love to know what we are neglecting. The FSM? Ourselves? Each other? Our fluffy bunnies? Our glasses of beer (fresh from Heaven)? Our website? You?
And, back to the pedantry; doesn’t, your, spaces after punctuation, and it’s RAmen, not Amen.
I mean, jeez, where the Norway did you pick up this stupid ‘Amen’ idea?
@ Christian Warrior
So, we’re nice, and this is how you repay us? *sobs* Perhaps the reason that very few people have fought back as hard as they can is that, under the massive weight of all those clauses, sub-clauses, extended sentences, and non-fitting synonyms, Ryan’s argument has given up the ghost and collapsed. (the Holy ghost, obviously)
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Hey! I study physics at college and many people is talking about string theory as a potential new “theory of everything” The thing is that actually string is just a name given to the most basic composition of everything in the universe (protons, neutrons, etc) because it behaves like a string. But they ain’t strings, they are actually noodles. I’m sorry you haven’t been touched by his noodly appendage and are unable to see the truth.
RAmen.
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I had considerable difficulty in understanding what the point of this rant was. I’m still not sure I do.
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Duh!
Obviously the religion was created to mock organized religions that exist in the world.
It is nothing new. I assure you that the “followers” of this religion are atheists that are trying to prove a point.
And they DO have a point. Which is the same point that atheists have had for many years: The fact that we do not know nor have factual proof of the existence of a God, nor do we have factual proof that the Christian God is real.
Of course by factual, I mean scientific.
I personally choose to believe that there IS a God. Ironically, for very similar reasons than the atheists who don’t believe. The FACT that there is an unknown infinite dimension that our dual brain (a brain incapable of measuring concepts like that of infinity, due to not having a logical “limit”) cannot comprehend, indicates to me that there is an unknown “something” out there that does comprehend all this. Which I choose to call God.
Also, the fact that scientific discoveries have all been made within the capabilities of the human mind. However, there are things that cannot be explained with our mind capabilities because they clash with our human logic. For example, the FACT that everything must have a beginning, and an end. The studied theory of evolution starts at one point, and therefore should end at one point. But, using this logic, it is very hard to situate the “beginning” of time….. as even at that particular moment when humanity was created, there had to be something “before” that. Our logic does NOT comprehend nor visualize a big cement brick if you tried to travel back through time…… there has to be a before…. Always! Or else, what’s there? Nothing? Does “nothing” exist?
Even if “nothing” exists, and by saying nothing we can imagine an empty place without any matter, or a lapse of time where seconds don’t count the same way that they count in this world: Well guess what… even at that particular place or moment of “nothingness”, it becomes “something”. Because it is something outside of what we know. Just the fact that we attribute it with a name, such as “the unknown”, means it is “something”.
I choose to call it God. That’s what makes LOGICAL sense to me. Of course, just with logic, it is not possible to conclude the existence of a Christian God, or a Jewish God, or a Buddhist God…. or the spaghetti monster for that matter…. but the important thing to understand is that neither of the mentioned can be proven or disproven…… Consider that ONE of them COULD be right. That is up to you to decide, based on history and your own faith and beliefs.
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“Of course the idea that our universe, earth, and life just popped into existence uncaused, seems as ignorant as believing a walking bread beast did it.”
Dude, I DO believe are walking bread beast did it. and i agree: these FSM guys can’t be right. Especially with the BETTER theories that WE believe: like the bread beast.
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You seem to be missing the point. Pastafarianism is not a religion, it is a tool that was used to make a mockery of the Kansas school board and to prevent children’s minds from being warped by their teachers teaching (for that is what teachers do) them the Christian theory of creation. Furthermore, you will note that there is no religion by the name of “Christian” or “Christianity”. Christianity is a group of religions that share a common belief in Christ. To say that Christianity is a religion would be saying that Roman Catholics and Baptists get along.
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actually some people really do believe in the FSM and treat pastafarrianism as a true religion.
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Actually some people do believe in the FSM and treat pastafarianism as a true religion
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Hey, this is satire, gosh quite a few hatemails think that this religion is for real.
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Yes, everything has a beginning and an end. However, everything also has preceding and following events. Therefore, stuff must have happened before the formation of the universe; there could not possibly have been an ABSOLUTE beginning because then there would be no preceding events (an absolute beginning would also require a suspension of preservation of matter and energy). The Big Bang theory does not say that the universe popped out of nothing, but that it exploded out of a highly focused bit of matter/energy (it says nothing about how that bit got there; all the evidence was likely wrecked in the explosion).
The human mind is the mind that invented the concept of infinity. Infinity itself exists independently of that concept, but we wouldn’t be talking about it if your mind were incapable of conceiving it.
Buddhism doesn’t worship Gods.
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Actually, an atheists viewpoint is that everything has always existed. In fact, and I fall under this category, anyone that knows anything about the emerging field of study in the universe, it’s “creation,” how it works, and so on (and if you’re interested, I would definitely recommend anything by Hawking,) is all related to the idea of infinity, something many people cannot think of because it goes against humans desire to list everything under cause and effect.
The idea right now, for you interested (and I say idea because, in my head, I think everything is some sort of idea or belief [hell, I think they go hand in hand,] in the end,) is that there is a big bang, everything exists for a really long time, stars burn out, turn into black holes, swallow shit, and then the black holes swallow each other, and after a near insurmountable length of time, all the black holes become one giant black hole, and theoretically, when everything is in one place, the black hole collapses from the weight it has in it, implodes, and then another big bang proceeds.
The end.
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The Great Spaghetti Monster is indeed real. I have experienced its validating powers whilst sitting at table on the official sabbath day which is each first Tuesday of the lunar calendar recounted in the Ancient Italians Pastafarian Parchments discovered in my great grandfather’s attic. The documents which need to be read with a magnifying electronic microscope in the light of the full moon reveal more of a tubular form of Spaghetti resembling long stringy canelloni, at least in the description of its molecular structure. So far, I have been unable to decipher the machine code used by the Wise Men who left us the Holy Words, but the stylised pictures illuminating the texts show clearly that the Saints of The GSM Church knew exactly what they were doing for eternity.
I am founding a charitable organisation which is in need of funds to enlist the help of Ancient Machine Code Scholars which, if sufficient, I will give to the MIT, Cambridge University in the UK and a theological research centre yet to be identified somewhere on this planet.
PS: If anyone wishes to organise a crusade, a holy war or just a party, please do not hesitate to create a bank account for the purpose, or better still, a bank.
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“A better countervailing viewpoint to atheistic macroevolution’s claims of an eternal universe, abiogenesis, and decent through modification, would be that the universe, earth, and life simply popped into existence uncaused with no explanation. This would actually be a more logical inference based on overwhelming observable evidence such as the big bang theory, the cambrian explosion, Pasteur’s experiments which proved life does not spring from non-living matter and the biological fact that cross species reproduction cannot occur. Furthermore it would not posit a metaphysical explanation for existence as FSMism, Christianity, Judaism, and Islam do, nor would it be in conflict with the known laws of physics, mathematics, historical geology, and biology.”
Well, I do believe people become decent through modification, yes.
Biological fact? Boy, you really are a mule… Oh wait, or was that a cross species offspring from a horse (Equus Caballus) and a donkey(Equus Asinus)
“Of course the idea that our universe, earth, and life just popped into existence uncaused, seems as ignorant as believing a walking bread beast did it.”
ingorance: Viciously attacking one man for the flaws in his beliefs, profusely chosing to ignore the fact that they are equally (if not more so) applicable on himself…
Because it all makes sense if someone else did it (i.e. god)
Some day, you will be eating diner with your mom and dad, and enlightenment will come to you.
Guess what you’ll be eating?
Yes, it will be Spaghetti
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Yes… That would be the point, sir.
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If Bobby thought this was real, he wouldn’t publish the hate-mail
If Bobby and us didn’t get so many laughs from reading this, he wouldn’t publish the hate-mail
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Unfortunately, cross-species reproduction can and does occur all the time. Without it, modern day wheat would not exist, for one… also, horses and donkeys can breed, producing a mule (though mules are sterile).
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Give the man a cigar. He figured it out. Nice of him to tell us.
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A walking bread beast WOULD be stupid.
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@Krankes HIrn
Supernoodle Theory was that your idea?! In that case I just made my first post purely to salute you :D
small vibrating noodles are going to keep me giggling for days
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Whereas Christianity is just a theory, but with lots of proof. No statements.
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It is Idiotic Design not Intelligent Design… look it up.
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