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Florida evolution showdown

Published January 17th, 2008 by Bobby Henderson

dinosaur1.jpgThe Florida Department of Education has proposed new standards for science education in which evolution is presented as “the fundamental concept underlying all of biology and is supported in multiple forms of scientific evidence”.

The Clay County School Board would prefer that evolution was not presented as fact, and is today – January 17th – voting on a resolution which would direct the Florida Department of Education to revise the science standards. They’d prefer that all theories – including supernatural ones – are given an equal footing.

I, for one, am ready for science to hold all theories equally valid without basis on evidence. And why shouldn’t science include supernatural theories? So what if science is “the study of the natural world”.

I’m all for changing the fundamental definition and methodology of science. Let’s just be clear that that’s what we’re doing, ok?

Maybe in a world where science allows magic, we’ll finally get flying cars.

{democracy:3}


60 Responses to “Florida evolution showdown”

  1. ☠DutchPastaGuy☠ says:

    @neal
    Well spoken.
    @phoenixphire24
    “With all the worries that the USA might be losing ground to countries like China, I am amazed that people want such pseudoscience taught in schools. If the US wants to have a future that includes strong science and technology industries, then this is absolutely the WRONG thing to be teaching children.”
    .
    One reason for me to be reasonably optimistic about creationism not going anywhere in the long run is the rise of China. Many here might not like the human rights record over there, but keeping religion out of science classes is something I’d guess they’re pretty good at. With that Marxist legacy, I don’t think Behe will be invited the give a lecture at Beijing University’s biology department. :)

  2. ☠DutchPastaGuy☠ says:

    @MrLitigator
    Oh dear!
    .
    “I find it amazing that logic escapes one’s thinking when is comes to origins. 1. How does Nothing make something? How can an atheist logically say their is no God when, logically speaking, they have not been all over the universe, but may believe in an ET. Hmmm. I guess it is the atheistic view to also believe that truth is not absolute.”
    .
    Congrats on pointing out the technicality. Indeed, we haven’t checked behind every planet. Neither have you checked galaxies a few billion light years away to make sure that the ancient Egyptian gods aren’t lurking there. Yet you’d say they don’t exist. While formally the correct position to take would be to say it is exceedingly unlikely that they exist. Just as it is exceedingly unlikely that your (presumably christian?) god is real.
    .
    “Nevertheless, I thank you for the postings as it is very helpful to understand another’s way of thinking.”
    .
    I doubt if you have understood our position very well, judging from your post.
    .
    “I guess I also find it odd that if we are animals, having evolved from primates, why do we contradict our natural instinct? You may say, “What?” I’ll tell you. We honor bravery, we respect sacrifice, we do the very opposite of “survival of the fittest.” We fight to keep a species from becoming extinct, when that seems to be a fundamental foundation of evolution, one species dying away and a new one arising. I am sorry, it just doesn’t make much rational sense.”
    .
    The answer is very easy really. We became so successful as a species because of our intelligence. While our intelligence allows us to breed like mad, it also frequently goes against our instincts. We may decide that we rather have nice holidays and time for our hobbies rather than follow our instincts, breed like mad, and spend our time changing diapers. So intelligence overrules instincts (most of the time, unfortunately not always). Hence we go against the ‘survival of the fittest’ pattern now and then.
    That wasn’t too hard, was it?
    .
    “I will stick with the understanding that there is a transcendent being that created all of this, for without such a being, none of it would make ANY sense.”
    .
    It does actually. But instead of going into that any deeper, perhaps you could explain to me where that transcendent being came from. You started off by asking ‘How can nothing make something?’. Maybe you would care to apply that thinking to your own world view. Where did your god come from? Let me guess: we are in for a changing of the rules in mid-game. While the universe and life on earth must have a creator, it’s fine for the creator not to have been ever created. Duh.

  3. Fluff? says:

    @ Tar

    “Australia sounds like a cool place.”

    it is pretty cool. very moderate in terms of religion i believe. but we still have our problems. then again America captivates my imagination for some things as well. i think it’d be a nice place to live… for a while. heh.
    America gets a lot of bad publicity in other countries, especially with regard to religious nuts and stupid religious apologetics… they type that allow this stuff to be even brought to a court. this stuff just seems to me as common sense. i mean, i dont care [much] if you want your kids to be god fearing creationists(hopefully they get the education they deserve and see how flawed creationism is), but there is no way my tax paying dollars are going to fund that. maybe they should have an extra tax for people who want their kid to learn this tripe so that other citizens are not out of pocket. then again, if it matters so much, why not just pay the extra $$ and send your kids to a private school… or if its a money issues.. home school them.

    science should be taught based on evidence. most of science is theories. they still exist becasue they best explain the problem.

  4. Jean Bart says:

    @MV Jan 20th, 2008 at 12:41 am: “I really hope you don’t actually litigate because you must be very poor at creating / countering an argument. First, evolution has nothing to do with origin. That is Genesis. Evolution deals with how species change over time.”
    .
    Hahaha! Oops, sorry… Evolution has to start somewhere too: tiny single cells, for example. Or a good sneeze. Whereas when you start with Genesis, you haven’t much room left for evolution, have you? Oh well, nice trying to combine the bible with evolution. After all, we DO have two brain halves, don’t we?

  5. MV says:

    Stevo,
    .
    I agree, I was just pointing out to Mr Litigator that evolution has nothing to do with Genesis where as Intelligent Design is trying to answer that and be passed as science. It is not science and should not be taught in Science Class.
    MV

  6. Tar says:

    @Fluff?
    Thanks for the quick description of Australia. I’ve went to Japan many times, and thus far, only faced a few religious people there (including a Zen Buddhist monk who hated Christianity, although I’d rather label his hatred towards American culture according to his opinions). So rather unfortunately, I know a country less religious than Australia, according to what you say.
    But I could care less. I hate the cold at New York. Australia still sounds cool, despite my mom’s warning of the inconsistent bathroom systems. Perhaps I should bring my own toilet paper….
    .
    As for taxes and stuff, watch and shiver: http://scalzi.com/whatever/?p=121
    I. can’t. believe. it. It’s the funniest and the saddest thing ever USA had.
    .
    @MrLitigator
    Then disprove Creationism. I don’t believe in it, but I bet every argument you make against Creationism can easily be explained by the simple phrase, “merely because the Creator desires to do so”. And this lack of disproof, thereof, invalidates it as an actual science theory (science theories HAVE to be disputable).
    .
    Evolution, on the other hand, can be easily disproved. For example, make a rabbit appear out of nothing, and I will instantly believe in Creationism.

  7. Colton says:

    In the bible it says god created the earth in seven days. It never said how long those days were. for all we know a day in gods time could be 3 billion years! Also it says god put down the animals before man. it also says that god made fish and birds(dinosaurs) before he made the land animals we know to day. then it says he created man. isn’t this some what like the path of evolution? i believe that man was made separate and special but i do believe in animal evolution. to me it all point out that evolution is a way that god used to make all the life around us. We humans are different from all other animals. and if human evolution was true why do men have nipples? and why would there be monkeys left if the smart way to go was to evolve into humans? I’m pretty shure that humans and monkeys live in Africa. why didnt they evolve? I don’t believe evolution or any thing that has to do with god should be tought in school. To me they are both theories that spark to much between people. If you want to learn about god go to church. and if the evolutionists want to teach students about it maybe they should open up there own places to teach there theory. i mean isn’t thumping evolution in a child’s face the same as thumping the bible. there both forcing views of other people on other people. how the world and its things should not be tought in PUBLIC schools. If u want to open a religious school go ahead if you want to open up a evolution school go ahead. public school is for every one and shouldn’t be controlled by one belief. America is a secular country and im glad i don’t want the pope to run the country. But really teaching only evolution is just as bad as the pope telling u what to believe. We shouldn’t be fighting about this anyway! theres more important things like world hunger aids and terrorism to deal with. End the end Christians and human evolutionist both agree that human life is the most important thing weather it be because of spiritual beliefs our the survival of the species. were all humans and we all need to help each other so if u believe our not god bless u all, and god bless the freedom of speech, and all the good people in the world who want to help other people. So for all u who read this thanks for reading and for all the negatives our positive feedback i get for writing this i thank u for using your rite to speak. ooh ya i rote this some what in a hurry but intellectually so if theirs some grammatic errors i didn’t have time to check for them.

  8. Fluff? says:

    @ Tar…
    .
    yes… i saw that a while ago. i was in tears over the report… hilarious
    .
    “Australia still sounds cool, despite my mom’s warning of the inconsistent bathroom systems.”
    .
    hahahaha… random. i wonder where your mum went in Aus.
    .
    Yes, i’m sure there are many other nations that are less religious that mine. we just don’t seem to have that many nut jobs…

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