I just came across your website through digg.com. At first I was intrigued and happy that a group was standing up for teaching pure science in schools. However after reading what FSM was supposedly about and then reading many of these posts, I see FSM is no better than the religions you are bashing, your posters/members sit in high judgment over religious people, demeaning them for their beliefs. Now I am an actual scientist, with a B.S. in Physics and a M.S. in Physics, however I have spiritual/religious beliefs.Here is my final point, stick to fighting the good fight to keep science in schools and make sure it is not replaced with absurd ID, I say this believing a God created the universe and let evolution run its course.
Stop bashing other people’s faiths and assuming they are ignorant because they have a faith, and stop making your atheism a religion onto itself.
-sty
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An elaborate spoof on Intelligent Design, The Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster is neither too elaborate nor too spoofy to succeed in nailing the fallacies of ID. It's even wackier than Jonathan Swift's suggestion that the Irish eat their children as a way to keep them from being a burden, and it may offend just as many people, but Henderson, described elsewhere as a 25-year-old "out-of-work physics major," puts satire to the same serious use that Swift did. Oh, yes, it is very funny. -- Scientific American
We try not to bash other’s religions unnecessarily. After all, the ideas that you’ve got a soul independent of your body or that some sort of man-in-the-sky watches and judges our every action are no less valid than our own beliefs. We have faith that ours are right, of course.
Sty,
Maybe it is late where you are but for a scientist you should be able to read the substance of most of these posts and understand what it is directed at. Most of the hate-mail comes from religious fundamentalists bashing us and telling us to go to hell. 99% of the time most of our comments are towards the poster not thee religion and yes most happen to be Christian. So I am surprised when you say we are bashing them when we are not the ones telling them they will go to hell. They claim to be good Christians yet their actions contradict the teachings of Jesus. So this in itself makes them ignorant. Having faith has nothing to do with it.
.
I have no issue and many don’t have issue if someone has faith. To each it’s own as long as you do not try to push your belief system onto someone else. Most of the hate mailers are trying to do that with their abundant hatred toward non-Christians.
.
We all agree science class should be science without any of the ridiculous ID crap in it. FSM is better than most because we are not going out to other websites saying that need to convert to Pastafarianism. We say the FSM loves all, believe if you want and if you do not that is alright too. Sometimes we may seem to sit in high judgment but look at the hate mail coming in. We have every right to defend ourselves and point out the shortcomings of the hate mailer, who probably come from the bible belt, live in a trailer park, and dropped out of school in the 3rd grade. Lately, they probably come from Florida where the debates with ID and evolution are taking place. It is no wonder there are so many voting issues in that state.
.
In conclusion, I am happy to see you believe science is science and ID has no place in it. Please just realize that most of the comments you see are towards the people posting the hateful messages and use their religion as a right to be mean.
.
Ramen!
“Stop bashing other people’s faiths and assuming they are ignorant because they have a faith…”
You totally missed the point. We are the ones who are bashed. Show me any other religious site that have a hate-mail section.
Sty, I do NOT bash people’s faith because i enjoy it or something like that. I bash bashers, people who tell me I’ll go to hell for not believing in whatever they believe in (in very bad English too). People like that piss me off and I let them know that. That’s all. But looking at their grasp of logic, language and general knowledge I am afraid that I am not far off in assuming the are ignorant fools.
*
I’m fine with you believing in a god. Go ahead, just leave me out of it and do not force it upon me in any way, form or shape. Thank you.
Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear. Sty tells us not to bash religions but is happy to talk about ‘absurd ID’. Wake up sty, ID is to you what christianity is to many of the frequent visitors here. And you’ve just called ID absurd, so you’re not bashing certain beliefs any less than we are. Welcome to the club. It’s wonderful, isn’t it, naming things what they really are. You do it, for the things you think are absurd. And so do we.
All religions have their share of people who’re quick to judge. Remember, His Noodliness doesn’t teach us that our religion is better than others, but rather than all religions are equal. Sure, some Pastafarians miss this important message, but hey, we’re all just humans here. I try to keep my posts moderate and only attack the arguments of people rather than their beliefs. I’ve yet to see someone attack *our* arguments, every hate mail is just bashing our beliefs for some reason.
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Also, most people here read the Bible and can produce actual arguments, how many haters do you think read the Gospel of FSM? We debate with poorly informed, misguided people here, no wonder it looks like bashing.
.
I do believe as global education levels rise, all will be touched by His noodly appendage. Eventually.
We’re not bashing your religion. I’m even saying that your religion could be true.
But I’d like to add that our religion (that of the FSM) is just as probable to be true. They’re equaly valid.
.
So I choose to believe that the FSM made the universe; until you proof he didn’t.
“However after reading what FSM was supposedly about and then reading many of these posts, I see FSM is no better than the religions you are bashing, your posters/members sit in high judgment over religious people, demeaning them for their beliefs.”
.
Notice that the people that we do bash are the ones that visit this site and complain about how stupid the FSM is and what crack-smoking lunatics we are that don’t GET that there is a God that created us and has damned us to Hell.
.
I can’t speak for everybody else, but I don’t run around pissing on other peoples churches, not in real life and not on the net. I don’t run around proclaiming that I have eaten your God and that I’m in the process of dumping him the toilet. And I don’t damn you to Hell for choosing another path than me.
.
“Now I am an actual scientist”
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Then you should know better.
.
“I say this believing a God created the universe and let evolution run its course.”
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To be honest, this is the dumbest thing I ever hear! Right along with “If English was good enough for Jesus, it’s good enough for Texas schoolchildren”.
.
But to have asked the question, seeing as you are a scientist, an actual one at that, why do you need to stick a God on top of the Universe? Why do you introduce a creator, that is more difficult to explain, as a solution to a problem that is difficult enough? This does not help any, and as a scientist, you should know better!
.
“Stop bashing other people’s faiths and assuming they are ignorant because they have a faith”
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Then stop coming here!
.
“and stop making your atheism a religion onto itself.”
.
How the Hell can atheism ever become a religion? That’s like non-astrologers not doing astrology, organized!
“Here is my final point, stick to fighting the good fight to keep science in schools and make sure it is not replaced with absurd ID, I say this believing a God created the universe and let evolution run its course.”
.
Agreed! Except the FSM does occasionally change the evidence for the age of our rock around a bit.
Looks like astronomers may have recently discovered the FSM’s base hang out for creating.
Note especially how the Arp 220 galaxy even closely resembles our venerable Noodly One.
.
Life-Forming Chemicals Found in Distant Galaxy
http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2008/01/17/galaxy-amino-acid.html
If you read the posts, then you MUST have seen how hateful or how derregatory most of them are towards us. So what if we get offended when people tell us the we are fucking morons and that we are going to hell. Wouldn’t you?
Sty,
Though I am a recent convert to his Noodlieness, I must say that my impression has been that those who could be perceived as bashing religion are more often then not pointing out the absurdity of certain people bashing this or any other faith. Asking why it is any more reasonable or logical that a beared old man created the universe then that a drunken Flying Spaghetti Monster did it is not bashing the faith of another in my view, merely pointing out the absurdity of intolerance.
RAmen
I’ve read many a posting on this site, and I be seeing no bashing of other religions. We be not bashing religion, but dogma in itself, yarr. We be not bashing you’re god, but you’re gods systems and beliefs!
RAMEN
I have spiritual beliefs, too!
.
That said, people telling me my religion is wrong (as most hate-mails says) needs to be more sensitive to what they say. In short, we don’t begin the bashing; they do.
I felt like we were the victims of a demeaning email just now, as Sty was looking down his highly educated, scientific nose at me. Sty, we don’t proactively seek out the religious to attack and berate them. We simply defend ourselves once attacked, by the divine, such as yourself. And another thing, who are you to tell us what we can and cannot do with our atheism? Are you my mommy? By telling us to, “stop making your atheism a religion onto itself” aren’t you demeaning our religious beliefs and our points of view? Who are you to say that what we are doing is wrong or write? Hypocrites bother me the most, especially educated ones, because they should know better.
sty, sty, sty… if you would thoroughly read through the replies to the hatemail you would see that no one on this site is bashing anyone else’s religion, other than the christian hatemailers who bash our religion. all we do is defend ourselves and bash the individuals who bash us, not their beliefs. this has been pointed out repeatedly as well.
What you and other hate mailers call “bashing your religion” to us is merely “poking holes in your religion”. It’s true that some posters go over the line but there are many more that provide actual substance in their responses. If you don’t like it then don’t read it. You came to us.
Has “bashed” now become a technical term?
Sty,
It is refreshing to see someone literate on the hatemail page! Finally someone we can have a rational discussion with!
You must keep in mind that most of the hatemail is coming from those you are bashing us. I now I can only speak for myself, but when I start to “bash” I try to use their same arguments against them. I am not trying to bash, I am just trying to show what they are doing to me and try to point out the irony that is most of these hate mailers. They claim to be from a religion that promotes piece and freedom yet they come here and act like total hypocrites.
I would never walk up to someone and start hating on their belief in god. That’s not how I roll, but when they come swinging at me you better believe I am going to let them have it.
I think you completely overlook what is happening in the culture at large. Within that cultural context there exists a wholesale attempt by a well funded extremely vocal, intolerant, mendacious and extreme group of Christ following fundamentalists to implement a fascist fundamentalist theocracy. Don’t believe me, go to web sites like American taliban where you will read the thoughts of a number of prominent American clergy and lay types who believe that only Christians are entitled to full citizenship in a nation where everyone’s human rights are and have been guaranteed for better than 200 years by our constitution and bill of rights.
Read how the present president’s daddy believes that athiests should not be considered full citizens, read how the likes of Donald Wildmon talks about abolishing the bill of rights when Christianity prevails, read how some preachers want to tie the right to vote to membership in an established christian church, and read how others believe that they have a golden opportunity to train public school teachers so they can prostheletyze in the public schools- in other words use public resources to indoctrinate all children (even and perhaps especially the ones whose parents want no part of such indoctrination) in the tenets of christian fundamentalism.
In the face of all of this, it is hardly unreasonable for some of us to rise up and just say no. These people are fair game. To be honest, I have little problem with Christians who wish to quietly practice their beliefs, and are willing to allow others to practice what they believe-even is their beliefs and practices differ from their own.
But the idea that America is a christian nation, and anyone who believes differently is just a guest in Gerry Falwell’s and Pat Robertson’s reality, and is required to live by the rules of that reality, simply will not fly. Not only will it not fly, but those people can count on the fact that there will be plenty of people like me who will use the power of the marketplace of ideas fully–to rip them a new one.
People just miss the point so consistently, it’s truly amazing.
Sty,
.
I think these previous posts have proven the necessary point. We don’t bash others’ religions, we simply bash the hypocritical fundamentalists that tout those religions when they come here to bash ours. We are a people based on scientific truth and when people try, quite blatantly, to provide false truths in the face of what we know to be otherwise, we are going to correct them. Don’t let this be confused with bashing, it is simply telling people how it is. For instance, I don’t want to bash you because you seem to be legitimate and calm, however, as a scientist myself (working on a PhD in Paleoanthropology), I have to wonder how you reconcile the facts you know to be scientifically valid with a faith that you know is logically absurd. I really am curious about this and would love to continue the debate. Please write back!
.
RAmen,
.
P.E.T.
Sty,
Now where did you get that live and let live attitude? You profess your religious-spiritual beliefs and that is just fine. Suppose WE believe in His Noodliness the Flying Spaghetti Monster and that hurts you-how?
Have you been commenting on Answers in Genesis, telling them their beliefs are demonstrably false? Can you disprove His Noodliness? I am waiting to hear your arguments.
By the way if you are a physicist, the book I would suggest is “the Comprehensible Cosmos”, by Victor Stenger. He argues that the laws of physics didn’t need anyone to write them-they can all be derived from the simple point of view invariance assumption. He subsequently wrote another book called “God: the failed hypothesis”, based in part on his previous book.
Random Ad Hominem response: You’d thing a holder of a Master’s Degree would know how to use the word ‘unto’ …
Wait… Physicists go to digg.com!?
Don’t like to be rude Sty but for a person of your undoubted intellect, your writing style strikes me as incongruous, do “actual scientists” refer to themselves as such?
As you are a scientist I take it that you reject non evidence-based dogma ? To be clearer you for instance would not accept a book of fables, myths and fairy tales as evidence of anything ?
Oh…and isn’t faith just a nicer why of saying ignorant? The so called “faithful” refuse to looks at evidence and facts and insist upon continuing a belief system that makes no logical sense.
Sty,
I want to remind you that atheism is mostly a reaction to fundamentalism. Atheist organizations wouldn’t exist without people trying to spread their religion and force in the throat of people. Otherwise, atheists organizations have nos sense.
.
Furthermore, here it is even softer, for we are not even atheists. We just believe that our faith worths yours, and not pissing anybody off with it, in the exception case where the people in question attempt to our liberty of religion. Plus you will notice that people here are mostly very polite in their answers, not calling names or anything.
.
I hope that you will understand our point of view. Sincerly, Benji.
.
P.S. I don’t even know why we have the argument, because after all, our positions are complementary and it is with people like you that I want to coexist.
Methinks Sty has a good point–while most of the Pastafarians I’ve noticed on this site are lighthearted, witty founts of joy, logic, and tolerance, there are also many who use the Hate-Mail as an excuse to vent their (understandable, in my opinion) frustration with the overtly and ostentatiously religious. Unfortunately, this does very often manifest itself through religion-bashing, muddying our claim to the high ground and certainly not helping to guide others to acceptance of His Noodliness.
Yeea but! they always start it! We were quite happy here posting to each other about the joys of noodliness until the hate mail started arriving. Anything that is said is in response to attack from another vessel. So break out the side-arms and repel all boarders Arrrrrrrr
I bet no-one here goes off in search of christian websites just to slag them off.
Another religious person trying to tell us what to do simply because it disagrees with their religion… you are ignorant. Period.
This guy is right. Alot of our ‘followers’ are, infact, a bunch of atheist, Christian-hating bulldogs using this site to bash Christianity. They claim to be ‘Pastafarians,’ but they aren’t. Please excuse the non-believers, and RAmen.
Physics isn’t the only place where you have B.S.
RAmen!!
I believe in freedom of expression, and that means that although it is not necessarily nice, others have a right to ridicule my beliefs, and in exchange, I have a right to ridicule other’s beliefs. Learning not to take things too seriously is never a bad thing. Besides, it is impossible to prevent all ridicule of other religions from going on, so it’s best to learn to cope with some parody.
AMEN!
.
This is what I have noticed about the site too. It’s not the claims made by Christians that get the most attacks, it’s Christianity itself, if a poster aligns him/herself with this (or really any other) religion.
were not athiests, some of us are genuin pasta lovers and followers of the FSM! And i happen to be one of them. All beliefs are bashed constantly, it doesnt matter whos doing them. and right now, your bashing ours! so suck it
peace love and pirtaes
RAmen
if God had the urgent need to prove himself to man through science, then He wouldnt be God.
Man is not all that people. Yea, I said it
I would defend ANY faith where the faithful are willing to withstand the scrutiny of others. Because that’s what FAITH boils down to, belief in something that is beyond proving with imperical evidence. Any Zealot that seeks to Deify written documents and claim that words written thousands of years ago, translated multiple times and taken out of historical context are an iron clad representation of the words of a higher power need to be wakened from their comfortable slumber and forced to examine their beliefs. I would never want to strip anyone of the comfort of their FAITH, but too few religious nuts have ever taken time to reflect seriously on the words they espouse or the source they’re citing.
Tim
Dimes
You didn’t hear that “Whooshing” sound then ?
I am finding this all quite humurous (the bashing and debating) however, this site does not have enough information on the actual “The church of the flying spaghetti” I am getting the gist of it all, but not finding the information. What is this about??? I am intrigued.
@ Red Dutch Wench and Dutch Pasta
I don’t know if you two remember me, but the one eyed wonder is back!
@One-Eyed jimothy
I remember you :)
Welcome back!
Rodstar,
.
Go to the home page (click the button on the upper left of this page). Notice where it says, “If you’re new to the site, you’ll probably want to start here, with the Open Letter to the Kansas School Board” Follow the instructions. Read what follows. Get the book.
.
Be prepared to be touched by His Noodly Appendage.
.
RAmen
@ Wench Nikkiee
thank the gods someone remembers me! its been a while, but I be returnin! don’t know how much though, gonna try to be on as much as I can, but I’m not promising anything
I don’t bash the religions. In fact I qute like the ideeas behind some of them. In particular the Norse idea of Valhalla. The thought of spending eternity carousing with valkyries is to me rater attractive. If you examine it you’ll see simillarities with the FSM’s afterlife (I mean have you seen the pictures of valkyries, they’re strippers with wings) and the whole norse thing could be some garbled version of the CoFSM… think about it.
What I bash is closemindedness, a refusal to acknowlege logic and a lack of coherent thought. I have no problem with faith, I have a lot of it myself: I have faith that the Dockers will win a premiership (it’s an Australian thing much like the Sox fans). Faith can get us through the bad times. But let’s have some actual thought people. Apply some logic to the situation. Don’t go through life like a lemming.
In a word “Question”.
It’s what makes us a higher life form.
This is not about bashing any religion, only bashing those that hate for irrational, religious or no apparent reasons. Many religions have faced intolerance and persecution over the centuries, and this practice continues to this day. The Church of FSM is a prime example of this; even if you don’t subscribe to our satirical views this should be obvious from the posts under hate-mail. You miss the point of FSM entirely; we do not want to encourage atheism, we want religion to not be taught as science.
haaa he said hes got a BS lol
Yup this guy deffinitly has a BS in science.
@ Zorbathedwarfsmasher
Interesting theory. But then, Odinn only had one eye, and the FSM has two. *points at sidebar* But I always did wonder where the beer in Valhalla came from. Perhaps the beer volcanoes could hold the answer to this conundrum?…
A scientist actually thinks we’re serious?
…
There goes my faith in humanity.
I don’t get this one… does this guy (or girl?) actually think that a degree in physics makes him an expert on religion or evolution? I wouldn’t walk up to a geologist and ask them to operate on a tumor, or ask an astronomer about genetics. A degree in physics doesn’t make your beliefs about religion or evolution any more informed or special than the rest of ours. I can’t stand it when some “scientist” thinks that title gives them universal legitimacy. His other point about making fun of religion is actually a decent one, but he shouldn’t make such a big deal of himself and expect us all to take his opinion more seriously because he’s a scientist. Especially if he’s not even going to post his diploma and tell us his GPA.
Ramen
I kind of get his point.
It’s one of my favourite topics to argue (after 5 or 6 pints!)
My girlfriend is always giving out to me for trying to destroy her faith.
I see it as freeing her from stupidity, she sees it as me trying to take away a comfort blanket.
So now I just try to not bring it up.
The thing is, that if more people quietly believed in what they wanted it would be fine,
but because there are so many people trying to indoctrinate people with religion that it seems to be that there needs to be an opposing force. That opposing force is a combination of satire and knowledge.
By stating he has a degree and whatnot he is showing that he is educated and therefore of a fairly high intelligence but its a fair point that he is educated in a specific field and not in theology.
But then again, who here has a degree in theology or philosophy, and how tainted are they by various organisations?
anywho, back to work…
“I see FSM is no better than the religions you are bashing”
This is pure blasphemy. But the FSM will forgive you, for His love is infinite, unlike physics.
Wow, I guess having a BS and an MS means all sense of satire and irony are gone out the window.
Well if you want to get technical, Atheism is a religion, just without all that religious nonsense. The FSM is there watching over us all, but not in that creepy all the time way the catholic god is trying (that guy is a pervert) he gives us our alone time (when getting dressed/toilet needs/showering) but is with us a good chunk of the day.
RAmen
James D King of Pirates.
Pure and simple - separation of church and state. ID is by it’s fundamental nature a theistic explanation. So if church and state combine - who chooses which religion? why not nordic gods? why not native american? Why not FSM? The argument is simple, open the classroom door to faith-based concepts and the schools become churches.
Finally, I am really glad to see at least one articulate human, posting real and factual statements on the ‘Concerned Criticisms Board’.
It is the truth that a lot of people post on the forums and bash other religions, but I think that the assumption must be made that Pastafarianism, in and of itself, does not mock or make fun of other religions. (Other than scientology….)
It is the people that take things too far, as they are the ones sitting up and judging others, but I doubt we could have a religion without these people.
Can you name one that doesn’t?
Pastafarianism makes the point that if intelligent design is taught in schools (Damn Mike Huckabee if he wins Presidency…. which I truly doubt.) all religions would have to be accounted for, not just the Judea- Christian beliefs, as most people that belong to certain religions DO believe in evolution. (Other than fundamentalists.)
Last, but not least… truly, Atheism is a religion because while it is the belief of nothing, (or in my point of view, everything because everything is open) it is the BELIEF of nothing.
~Griffin
atheism is a religion… dumbass
….its hilarious how this site bashes religions that worship god, yet they use all of the same emblems, symbols, etc. and just modify them to fit their sorry excuse for a religion. for example, the FSM fish shirt.
honestly, this site looks like nothing more than the result of an idiot with a few followers who has nothing better to do than mock really bad cartoons.
If you’re so smart, then why don’t you properly abbreviate B.Sc. and M.Sc?
I just found this site and I can’t believe all the fun I’ve been missing out on! The really awful part is that I’ve heard the phrase fsm several time before, just never wondered its origins.
PS. I love lobster ravioli.