I stumbled upon this site just now and I’ve read most of the information here…I have to admit that it really disturbs me. I COMPLETELY AGREE that religion should not be taught in a science class at public schools (this debate is going on where I live too). However, I am really offended by the way the Open Letter and the other information completely makes fun of Christianity and the arguments that some Christians have made for intelligent design. Also, the T-shirt designs are blatantly disrespectful of Christianity. As a Christian myself, I find it very saddening that God has become replaceable by an imaginary ball of pasta in the minds of an apparently large number of people.
I only ask this: Please keep your minds and hearts OPEN to God and anything He tells you. God is with you always, and He wants you to know Him and follow His path for your life. Just make sure, as attractive as the FSM-god may be, that you are not worshiping him and placing him ahead of the GOD who is REAL and alive today.
Any comments are appreciated, and may God bless you all.
-Rachel-
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So we aren’t allowed to believe that god is a flying spaghetti monster? The only god anyone is allowed to worship is YOUR god? Why are we only “allowed” to believe in a god that you approve of, when believing in a flying spaghetti monster (or any other god of our choosing) provides us with just as much happiness, faith, meaning, and purpose in life? And while we aren’t harming anyone in the process.
Oh, but I won’t pass judgment…
May you find faith in the FSM
RAmen
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Theo,
Thank you for your feedback. I’m very glad that you found it clear, (if not brief!) Yes, I do tend to be a bit verbose and see the humor, in your comment!
Everyone,
I welcome your feedback as well. I have not commented on the FSM, because this is all too new to me, but I do see the point that they are making. Bravo!
I would like to comment on another issue (or more). I was downtown at a bus station when I saw two people talking. One was a young man, nicely groomed and dressed (like a salesman). He was holding some kind of dollar bill in his hand and talking to the other man. The other man was dressed in shabby clothes, thin, dirty, ungroomed, very possibly homeless. The first man was saying something like, “…And if you promise to come to our church, you can have this (money).”
MY BLOOD BOILED!!! I’m not proud that I merely walked away, but if I get the chance again, I would give that poor man some money and tell him, “Here, take this and do what you want with it. Go to your own church, or no church, or even take his money and go to the first man’s church! But do it, because you CHOOSE to do it.”
It is DEAD WRONG to take advantage of that poor man’s poverty and try to bribe or brainwash him! It’s like saying, “We have different ideas. I have money. You don’t. Want to eat? Then you must think like me.”
Hunger is an extremely powerful drive! I know! I once was forced to go three weeks without food, only fluids. ALL I thought about was food. I don’t really care to discuss this and I wouldn’t recommend it.
Ever think what you would do, if you were really hungry? Would you pretend to believe in something, if it meant that you would eat? I wouldn’t blame you.
Along the same lines, but on a much more grandiose scale are missionaires, in impoverished countries. They give free food, clothes, supplies, medical treatment, all undeniably wonderful. However, they also build their churches which I suspect, the people are pressured to attend.
What about what those people already believe? “Well, if they don’t accept Christ, they’re wrong. We’re just saving their souls.” How would these Christians feel if they, due to some disaster or holocaust, lost everything? Then one day, strangers came with food and supplies, told them Jesus wasn’t real and made them worship some strange god?
They are exploiting the people’s poverty! Much the same way that cults or pimps do. A pimp sees a young girl, out on her own, flat broke. “Want to eat? Do what I say. And oh yes, I love you and I’ll take care of you.” She’s desperate, so she goes along. (No, I was never a pimp or conducted business with them, but have talked with some women who claimed to be hookers.)
On a separate issue now, why do some of the religious stand on street corners, preach and hand out propaganda? I live in a medium sized city in the U.S. and it’s usually Christians. Now do they really think, that someone is going to stop and say, “Who? Jesus? No, I never heard of him. Died on the cross, you say? Believe in him and I’ll go to Heaven? Where’s that? Never heard of it.” I mean MOST people in the U.S. have heard and are familar with the story of Jesus! They have made up there OWN minds about it and either go to a Christian church, a different church, or no church. Why then, do the street corner prophets think they are telling us something NEW? Even my Christian friends find them annoying and try to get away from them.
Okay, I guess that’s enough for now. I hope I didn’t sound like I was against helping less fortunate people, just against telling them how to think. There are of course, people and charities who do indeed help, without the brainwashing and I salute them. I thank you again for reading.
Mortal
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Don’t worry honey… I speak to my imaginary friends, too, which happen to include this g-d person too. however, she kindly asks me to tell you that she is most certainly female.
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woops. i forgot to add that i do thank you, rachel, for being so open minded. i’m not being sarcastic and you seem like a truley nice person. we of the FSM (or i, i guess, cuz other people can speak for themselves) just don’t like being told what to believe, what is true, what is false. this is the point where i’d usually start going on philisophically, but i’m still having trouble convincing myself that its worth it.
RAmen
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thanks for being slightly more open minded than your predecessors
might i inquire as to how you found this site? what were you searching?
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Rachel,
THANK YOU! I like what you said to Red DutchPasta Wench, that “accepting something you hear without thinking about it is stupid”. Touche’! Even though, you were not addressing me, I would like to say that I have not “closed my mind to God”. I was recently excited about a book written by the leader of the Human Genome Project, stating his case for God. However, I was dissapointed and found his claims lacking. If you’re interested, I think the title was “The Language Of God” or something like that. I’m sure that “God” and “Language” were in the title.
As for me: (1) Who was paid? I read and reread your answer. You do NOT mention WHO! You said that JESUS (no argument there) was PUNISHED in place of everyone else. Okay, WHO punished him? God The Father? Satan? WHO? WHO demanded that our sins must be “paid for” and not just simply forgiven? If you are claiming that our sins against God are so evil, that only a sinless being could pay for them with his death, then WHO demanded that payment? Simple enough?
I was puzzled at first when you mentioned praying, then I realized you were confusing praying with worshiping. I was thinking more of church services, with all these songs of praise. I always felt a little uncomfortable singing them, even when I believed. I thought they were harmless, though. Now, prayer is another issue. Let me ask you this. How does God answer you back? And how do you even know that he has given your prayer any attention at all? I used to wonder how I would get through some tough trials in my life without God. I stopped praying and get through them just as well. Oh wait! You’re going to tell me that God helps me anyways, aren’t you? Well I don’t think that this is something that can be proved easily one way or the other. However, if we give thanks to God for all the good things that happen, is he not responsible for the bad? Even if he is not causing the bad, couldn’t he step in, for example, and have saved New Orleans? Had it go the other way? He’s all powerful and all love. I don’t get it.
There are also some people who use prayer as a way to talk to an immaginary friend. One woman said, “The Lord told me to wear this dress today.” I doubt very much that a vision of the Lord appeared and said in a voice, “Wear this dress.” SHE picked the dress and imagined that her decision came from the Lord.
I was impressed by what you said, “God doesn’t need to be praised or glorified.” Maybe your church doesn’t do that. I don’t know, but that’s what I was getting at, not praying.
I understand that you don’t have an answer as to why I’m still alive. Maybe some would say that God intends to bring me around in the end. We shall see. I presently do not believe it could be done, anymore than I could once again believe in the tooth fairy. However, I have had a rather unusual life, to say the least. Let’s not rule anything out. Thank you for your time and to all who read this. Mortal
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your god owes my god money. like 6500 jesus’ worth.
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you know, this reminds me of a set of “discussions” at my place of business. i work for domino’s and my boss is a very devout muslim. the most senior driver is a super-devout catholic (odd, innit?). i am a semi-sort-of devout pastafarian. i say semi-sort-of because, as a pastafarian i am firmly anti-dogmatic and as such can’t believe too strongly in anything beyond the noodly goodness of our lord the FSM.
anyway, the reminder is because my boss doesn’t take my beliefs seriously, and can honestly not grasp that he might be wrong. and the driver guy tends to lecture about what god wants for us (one day, for example, he lectured the lead pizza maker girl on some story of a golfer and a saudi king and all i got was that god supposedly wants us to think more like a saudi king than a professional golfer. don’t ask me why.), and then from time to time they go at each other, and the muslim boss cannot let the catholic driver just belive what he wants. he keeps pushing and pushing, as well with me, by mocking his noodly holiness.
or as with any of my religious friends, the same hypocritical statement comes out.
“yeah dude, you’re totally wrong. but that’s ok, jebus still loves you. please kep an open mind.” and when i suggest they do the same, they invariably get offended.
i guess the point is that while we are truly open-minded to the notion that we may be wrong, they are not, and can never be, if their belief is strong at all. it just cracks me up when they feign openness to try and draw us back in.
but, as i tell my boss, the driver, and all my churchy friends, you can’t prove your god exists, and i have graphs and charts that argue toward the fsm. you can believe all you want, but at least i KNOW that my god is imaginary. and that puts me on whole other level of consciousness about our existence.
rachel, keep in mind that an invisible all-being who knows everything in spite of the entirety of our observations about the universe, who has a plan that somehow relies on our fallible free will may not be the safest bet. personally, i think believing in a wad of spaghetti and an afterlife with beer and strippers is a much better alternative. and since you have less proof of this “god” than we do for fsm, maybe you should be the one with an open mind as to what may or may not be.
sorry this ran on.
RAmen.
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“As a Christian myself, I find it very saddening that God has become replaceable by an imaginary ball of pasta in the minds of an apparently large number of people.”
This is the my favorite sentence in this hatemail because how is a flying spaghetti monster more absurd than believing that God, the almighty, is some white boy like we see in those picture? How is it that everybody important in the bible (God, Jesus, angels) are usually depicted as white people? Its funny how certain people get uncomfortable when God doesn’t look like them, it is a blow to their egos. That is why evolution is so hard to accept. It is hard for people to accept that we are descendants of some nasty, hairy, filthy, stinky monkeys and not some beautiful white boy with great abs. It is no coincidence that everybody’s gods look just like a glorified version of the people who worship them. A bunch of Europeans created God (as well as all of the important biblical figures) out of their own image, not the other way around, and then try to force that shit on everybody else. Well, pasta just so happen to be my favorite dish so i’m a pastafarian. Fuck yo white God.
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Mortal,
Sorry I didn’t fully answer your first question. I think it’s perceived as a rule of the universe that when one sins, one must be punished (by going to hell). It’s the way the universe works. Since God created the universe, then I guess you can say that God was paid. God must be paid for people’s sins because no person can match up to what God wants us all to be. And no one punished Jesus, he took the burden upon himself. But like I said, I don’t know a lot about this perspective because I have a different understanding of some parts of Christianity than many.
I guess I misunderstood your question about worship. As I said, I don’t think God needs to be praised and glorified. But if I know a God who takes care of me and is there to answer my prayers and forgive me no matter what you do, why would I not want to praise and glorify Him? In other words, churches don’t sing to God because God needs them to, they sing to God because they are grateful for all He gives them. I believe God wants to be worshiped like this because He knows it is good for us.
I know that God hears my prayers because He gives me what I ask for. Granted, prayer isn’t usually for something that can be tested. I don’t say “Please, God, give me a pony tomorrow morning.” I ask for things like courage or perseverance, things to help me deal with my problems, not for my problems to disappear. I’m not saying this is how everyone should pray, just that this is what I pray for.
Why is it that you can get through tough times as well with God as without Him? Is this really true? I find it reassuring that God will see me through anything that happens to me. I think that without that reassurance, I wouldn’t have the courage to face my problems. Maybe you are so confident in your belief that there is no God that you are not afraid of anything…? Or maybe God does help you. I don’t know. Like I said, I don’t think God stops bad things from happening in my life as much as He gives me strength to face them. Of course this can’t be tested, and I’m not saying that you can’t live a happy life without God, just that the assurance that God gives me makes me happier and more thankful for what I have.
THANK YOU for taking me seriously and actually being polite. I’m not trying to flaunt my faith in anyone’s face, I just want to be considered.
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Oh, and Jay: The Bible doesn’t say Jesus was white. I never said Jesus was white. In fact, it’s highly unlikely that he was. It’s true that people tend to worship God(s) that look like themselves. It’s easier to relate to a god that looks like you. But it really doesn’t matter what Jesus looked like. It matters what he did.
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I feel bad for those billions of people misguided into thinking that the holy spaghetti monster is some sort of floating deity that summons floods and plagues when he gets mad. Couldn’t the spaghetti monster be god, considering that his face is never seen?
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How do so many christians know “god” is a “he” or know what “he” wants or expects from us. People who claim they know “him” are obviously delusional and possibly dangerous to society. It’s 2008 and a large majority of people believe in an invisible man that created everything and his son who was sent to Earth to die for our sins. My advice…live you life. Learn what you can about the actual world you live in and try to make a positive difference. No one knows what happens when we die…so don’t try to act like you do.
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You see God as a Bearded man in the sky, we believe he’s a ball of pasta, we don’t bash christianity we tolerate it but we won’t put our religion in the background to make room for you, get over yourselves
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Rachel, while I think don’t share all of your beliefs, it is certainly nice to get hate mail once in a while that doesn’t read along the lines of “My compassionate God is going to send you to HELL”.
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I understand that the Bible does not say that Jesus was white. Given the time and place, that would be completely impossible. But there are implications on giving God any image at all. Because people tend to take their own images (both physical and non-physical characteristics) and project that unto God. Therefor many people who claim to worship God in reality worship glorified images of their own selves. The paintings, pictures, movies that we always see of Jesus, God in the flesh, as being a white dude is just one example. I hear people say, “God does not approve of homosexuality”, no, that person simply does not personally approve of homosexuality. Or my president once said, “God told me to go to war”, no, politics told you to go to war. Pat Robertson said,”God told me to be rich”, no, greed told you to be rich. And footballs players say, “God is on this team”, no, you just want to win. From what I understand God transcends all human thought. How do you give an image to that? I was told that God created us out of his. But instead people give God physical traits and a personality that fits their own. I know from history that religion has been used to conquer a people. For instance, you help conquer a non-European people by replacing their gods with a European God, who happen to look a lot like the conquerers. You also help keep women subjugated when you refer to God as a HE. This is using God as a form of mind control. Also, not that these religions are perfect, but I understand why Islam and Judaism have a hard time accepting Jesus as God. Lets open our Bibles. Exodus 20:4 “You shall not make for yourselves an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on earth beneath or in the waters below.” You can interpret this however you wish, but it seems that worshiping anything worldly as God, including a human (Jesus), to many people is plain idolatry. Giving God an image is pure blasphemy. Even the word “God” is an attempt to name something that cannot be named. So when people give God personality and physical that closely resembles humans, I become very suspicious.
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“As a Christian myself, I find it very saddening that God has become replaceable by an imaginary ball of pasta in the minds of an apparently large number of people.”
Maybe you need to start asking yourself why that might be
RAmen
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(by the way, FSM is not imaginary)
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no person can match up to what God wants us all to be
If god is all powerful and controls everything why couldn’t he make people the way he wanted us to be? That whole concept is so rediculous.
Rachel,
Think about all the wonderful experiences you are missing out of because of “SIN” which actually do no harm to anyone (group sex, lesbian sex, masturbation). All the things you are made to feel guilty about for no reason whatsoever.
Who the hell is Constantine (the guy who comissioned the bible) to tell us what is sinful? He wasn’t christian, he worshipped Mithra and STOLE the story of their god and substituded Christ (stealing real Christianity from real christians, who were actually rebeling against organized religion) and wrote the bible (which goes against many of the teachings of the real christ). Humans have been around for millions of years, yet you think it took until 1500 years ago (when the christian “church” was created, something christ was against doing if you read any non-biblical history of christ).
Why is it, that if Jesus was such a wonderful guy, that he didn’t write ANYTHING himself… where is the gospel of Christ… there most certainly WAS one, a man that wonderful and that smart, would have done a huge amount of writing in his lifetime, anyone that followed would have been so compelled to write down his message. I am buddhist, and I can sit down and ACTUALLY READ hundreds of pages of the first buddhist (Sidartha Goutama) writings… Which were written 2000 years before christ, if those documents survived, then certainly Jesus’ writings WOULD have, if Constantines church hadn’t hunted them down and destroyed them. This is what you do when you hijack a religion to save your society, and without copy machines, there were not that many coppies.
The fact is, I honestly believe I am a good person… I live my life with a very peaceful philosophy, but I believe that the response of the universe to my actions are my punishment, not some monster with a red tail and a pitchfork. You honestly think that me jerking off, or enjoying a good orgy, is going to make me burn in hell? What a wasted life I would have, if I actually believed that garbage.. I feel so sorry for you, because when you die, you will have not really lived, and all because some Roman guy 1500 years ago in an effort to save his empire hijacked some other people’s religion, took his OWN religion, substituded the name Christ for Mithra, kept almost the EXACT same story for how Mithra lived, changed the point of all the holidays that were practiced (Fertility festival became “Easter”, Festival of the sun became “Christmas”) but kept all the same rituals (hunting eggs, using rabbits as a symbol, lighting the trees to make it daytime 24 hours a day) and wrote a book about it called the bible, which has been used as an excuse to kill, torture, berate, persecute and destroy this planet ever since..
I just can’t see following something that makes so little sense, has historical evidence that basically proves it as not even the real teachings of Christ, and then takes it as face value as if it’s just fact and every religion before and after is just wrong.
The buddhist concept of god is so different from western culture it’s hard to explain it, but a living person called the Dali Lama is encouraged to keep the religion current (something christianity has never done), and he can change the rules when he thinks the time calls for it. Buddhism is a philosophy for looking in, taking PERSONAL responsibility for your actions, it is about living and being peace, not about fear of some horrible punishment when you die, and it’s based on concepts that make sense and are actually quite scientific (and very science friendly, as in Buddhists support the big bang theory and evolution). Forgive me for thinking you are wasting your life, I just think it’s very sad that you put so much faith in something that is so obviously a huge scam. I wish you the best and hope one day you decide to live your life for yourself rather than your fears of some horrible dude who makes things feel really good and then eternally damns you for doing them (that isn’t the way I think someone who loves me would behave, and I know a lot about love with 2 kids and 15 years of a marriage so happy it makes my friends ill).
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IF every religion followed the 8 “I’d Really Rather you Didn’t” I think it would answer Fusillier’s question. Here they are in condensed form which the full version is in the gospel. To me they make sense and there would be less violence and wars in the world if all would follow. Rachel would you agree?
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1.I’d Really Rather you didn’t act like a sanctimonious holier-than-thou ass when describing my noodly goodness.
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2.I’d Really Rather you didn’t use my existence as a mean to oppress, subjugate, punish, eviscerate be mean to others.
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3.I’d Really Rather you didn’t judge people for they way they look.
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4.I’d Really Rather you didn’t indulge in conduct that offends yourself or your willing consenting partner of legal age and mental maturity.
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5.I’d Really Rather you didn’t challenge the bigoted, misogynist, hateful idea of others on an empty stomach.
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6.I’d Really Rather you didn’t build multi-million dollar churches /temples / mosques etc..to my noodly goodness when the money can be spent on a) ending poverty, b) curing diseases, c) living in peace, loving with passion and lowering the cost of cable.
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7.I’d Really Rather you didn’t go around telling people I talk to you.
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8.I’d Really Rather you didn’t do unto others as you would have them do unto you if you are into, stuff that uses a lot of leather / lubricant / Las Vegas.
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I don’t know about you but they seem to be words that any religion that preaches good to your fellow man/woman should follow.
RAmen!
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Our deity is no less plausible than yours.
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How is modifying artwork offensive? That piece of artwork with Adam and God was created by an artist rumored to have homoerotic leanings, not by God himself. Changing a 2-D painted symbolic appearance of God is disrespectful? Think of how many times Michelangelo redid the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel. He could have easily painted him into a younger man, or into an Asian man.
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@jay: “You also help keep women subjugated when you refer to God as a HE. This is using God as a form of mind control.” God is referred to as “He” in Christianity because we believe that Jesus is God. Jesus was a man and not a woman, so it would be silly and confusing to call God “she”. As far as the Old Testament referring to God as “He”, I believe it was because the society of the time was patriarchal and, quite frankly, didn’t place much respect on women, from what I know about it. God as I know God is neither man nor female (although Jesus was God and He was a man, so that is why I call God He).
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@Fusillier: I’m not quite sure what you’re telling me…I should ask myself why it bothers me that people worship pasta? Or I should ask myself why there are people worshiping pasta? Well just to be safe, I asked myself both. Thanks.
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@Anim8or: “If god is all powerful and controls everything why couldn’t he make people the way he wanted us to be?” This is actually a good question. Why didn’t God create people to love and worship him automatically? If you had a love potion that would make someone love you, would you give it to “them? Of course not. Love doesn’t mean anything unless it’s given freely, by choice.
As for the rest of your post…I’ve never even heard of a non-Biblical history of Christ. I’d be interested in reading one. “Why is it, that if Jesus was such a wonderful guy, that he didn’t write ANYTHING himself… where is the gospel of Christ… there most certainly WAS one, a man that wonderful and that smart, would have done a huge amount of writing in his lifetime, anyone that followed would have been so compelled to write down his message.” Conservative Christians would argue that Jesus=God, and that God “wrote” the Bible (inspired the people who wrote it, told them what to say), so the Bible is God’s Absolute Word. (I don’t believe this.) But it’s clear that Jesus was very busy during his life healing and teaching. He might not even have been taught to write, I don’t know.
“You honestly think that me jerking off, or enjoying a good orgy, is going to make me burn in hell?” No, and neither do most Christians.
“What a wasted life I would have, if I actually believed that garbage.. I feel so sorry for you, because when you die, you will have not really lived…” This is where you’re really wrong. What could possibly make me happier than living the way God wants me to live?! Christians are some of the happiest people you will ever meet, because they place God ahead of their own desires and choose to spend their lives following Him, which makes them happier than any amount of masturbation could ever make them. If I die tomorrow and it turns out I was wrong and there is no God after all, then I will still have lived a great life. I’m not missing out on anything. Really.
“Buddhism is a philosophy for looking in, taking PERSONAL responsibility for your actions, it is about living and being peace, not about fear of some horrible punishment when you die, and it’s based on concepts that make sense and are actually quite scientific (and very science friendly, as in Buddhists support the big bang theory and evolution).” I actually looked into Buddhism for a little while…I was never familiar enough with it to call myself a Buddhist, but I know a little about it and I think it’s a good religion. Best of luck.
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@MV: Sure, if applied to Christianity instead of Pastafarianism (that’s the word for it, right?) I agree with 1, 2, 3, 4, and 8. I’m not sure about 5 – I don’t think the condition of the stomach matters much. 6 I don’t agree with, because multi-million dollar places of worship help people too. As long as they serve many people, then they should be encouraged. And 7 I can’t possibly agree to.
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lol, i like you. Your funny. and may his noodly appendage bless you 2.
peace love and pirates
RAmen
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Rachel,
as for #6 think of all the people that could be helped if not wasted on million dollar churches. I have no issue with the pastor having a normal income but when they are living in mansions, flying 1st class, renting penthouses, i am sorry but they are taking advantage if people.
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I have seen the Benny Hin’s, Joel Olsteen’s and people of other mega churches with the lavish lifestyles. Somehow I don’t believe Christ would go for that. Again, they could do much more for the people if that is truly what they wanted. So I do not think they should be encouraged because it just makes the church leaders richer and more corrupt and hypocritical.
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As for #5 it is just saying dealing with bigoted and ignorant people takes energy because you have to explain it a million times. :o).
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#7 that is your choice but if you are one of those people that do bad things in the name of GOD because “GOD” told you so then I have to disagree with you. Crusader’s killed countless because GOD told them to. Catch my point? I will give you the benefit of the doubt that you are not like that because you do seem like a very nice person. If you want to go around and preach love, respect for ALL no matter what their religion and GOD said so, I am fine with that. Again, you can how it can be taken to the other extreme and that is what #7 is implying.
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RAmen!
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Rachel,
In regard to keeping our minds open to Christianity:
Did you miss the whole point? There are too many possible ideas to be open to them all. Shall we keep a light on for Bertrand Russell’s orbiting teapot? and Jesus? and Buddha? and our Lord and Savior, the delicious and benevolent Flying Spaghetti Monster? and Zeus? and Odin? and on an on? The whole point is that we must keep our minds open to new evidence, not just new ideas. Ideas, suppositions, claims, etc are a dime a dozen. No person could possibly keep track of them all, let alone be open to them all. This is the point Bobby indirectly made in the original letter.
It is only when we see the tragic decline in pirates leading to global climate change on an actual line graph that we can fully open our minds to the EVIDENCE of His Noodly Appendage. We must not rest on faith, because faith could take us to anywhere. We must be more selective. We have seen spaghetti. We have tasted His goodness. We have delighted in the evidence of Him. Don’t open your mind to any old deity. Insist on evidence. Eat some pasta tonight.
With all due respect,
Miketti
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So it happens that whenever a ‘religiot’ is asked enough questions so as to appear that he / she believes what they have to say is valid, they boldly step up on the platform and begin to pontificate while claiming the teachings of their invisible man in the sky to have merit all the while bearing no scientific evidence. I don’t hold the same compassion for this person as some of you might although in contrast, I feel an immense amount of compassion for my fellow man (or woman). The perceived kindness of this person can be seen as the same ‘Jesus loves you’ mentality which purports to care for one another while often it preys upon the weak-minded and needy in hopes of any future tithing. The religious zealots who blatantly seek to either destroy the body or misguide the MIND (couldn’t resist the caps) of those around them, particularly children, deserve no better than the destruction caused by theists and deists over the centuries.
Is it so inconceivable that man can eventually learn to care for one another without the need of mysticism? Shouldn’t one of our purposes be to insure a better life for all subsequent generations and not bother ourselves with passing down religious dogma or any such unprovable optimistic (eventually fatalistic) propaganda to distract said offspring? After all, religions do not have a monopoly on compassion or love for one another as they would have many believe (i.e. if you’re not for us, you must be against us and therefore evil).
To her most recent posting; it has the potential to start the downward spiral that will only elevate the soapbox she now feels proud to mount. Philosophers and scientists have made mention of the fact that these conversations are not worth the time lost. I would no sooner ask her to elaborate on her views, even for my own amusement, than I would to ask a mouse if mouse heaven is closer because he’s smaller. The relevance is the same.
Rachel, I would only ask that you take time and consider a simple quote by Carl Sagan -
‘Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence’.
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Dear Rachel
You seem to be an intelligent and reasonable person so it really pains me to see you struggling to make excuses for an allegedly perfect entity that, if it existed, wouldn’t require neither excuses nor your protection. You read replies to your posts and then hold on to a piece or an argument you think to be wrong, ignoring all other points being raised because those are either impossible to reconcile with your beliefs or because they’re making you uncomfortable or both. You basically suspend a reasoned discussion based on facts and rather cling to beliefs or dogmas. You’re really not the only religious person who does that and that is precisely the problem which many atheist have with religion and its advocates – it tells you blind faith is a virtue and makes free inquiry impossible. It lends basis to utter bullshit like ID and the suspension of reason feeds the devotion of faithful suicide bombers.
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For example, you replied to jay about the labeling of god as a “he”, but that utterly missed the point of jay’s post. The gender of god was just one of many way more important points – none of which you refuted because you (or anybody else) really can. Also? God is neither male nor female, but Jesus is God (is he now? I thought he was the son of god? Christians really can’t make up their minds about this one…) and Jesus was male and so God is male. The laws of logic spot a contradiction there…
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Oh, and I just had to reply to this =D “This is actually a good question. Why didn’t God create people to love and worship him automatically? If you had a love potion that would make someone love you, would you give it to “them? Of course not. Love doesn’t mean anything unless it’s given freely, by choice.”
Yes. And if they don’t give it freely He, in his infinite mercy, tortures them forever! But he hearts you!
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Rachel,
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Thank you for continuing to participate in this thread. I have two comments. In your last message, you said, “@Fusillier: I’m not quite sure what you’re telling me…I should ask myself why it bothers me that people worship pasta? Or I should ask myself why there are people worshiping pasta? Well just to be safe, I asked myself both.”
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Did you come to any conclusions?
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Your original post ended with, “I only ask this: Please keep your minds and hearts OPEN to God and anything He tells you. God is with you always, and He wants you to know Him and follow His path for your life. Just make sure, as attractive as the FSM-god may be, that you are not worshiping him and placing him ahead of the GOD who is REAL and alive today.”
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Given that there is only one God, Christians, Muslims, Jews, and Pastafarians must all worship the same entity (god). See, we already have a point upon which we can agree.
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Let’s be clear that the name of this deity is beside the point. Some name the deity “God.” Some use the name, “Allah,” “Jehovah,” “Yahweh” or “Flying Spaghetti Monster.” The reference is to one and the same entity. If there is only one “God,” then any disagreement we may have is only about the attributes of this deity, not His, Her, or Its existence.
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We Pastafarians believe that the the deity has some of the following attributes:
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He* has many Noodly Appendages.
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He likes beer, strippers and pirates.
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He is not vindictive, vengeful or vain.
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He does not require anyone to believe in him or worship him in order to go to heaven.
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He does not require sacrifices or purity from us.
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He is tasty and nutritious.
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He is REAL and alive today!
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Pastafarians are a community of peaceful open-minded worshipers. We invite you to join us. You have nothing to loose and so much to gain. Besides, we offer a free thirty day guarantee. If you are not Touched by His Noodly Appendage, you can go your own way. No hard feelings.
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RAmen
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*Some Pastafarian scholars maintain that the FSM is actually a female and should be referred to as “She.” For the sake of convention and because “The Gospel of The Flying Spaghetti Monster”, our sacred text, refers to Him as “He,” we will continue to do so for the purpose of this discussion, intending no disrespect to our Wenches or any female Pirates.
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Kira said, “Yes. And if they (people) don’t give it (love to God) freely He, in his infinite mercy, tortures them forever! But he hearts you!”
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I never could figure that one out, myself. Maybe that’s why the FSM is so much tastier.
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RAmen
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I’ve seen PROOF that Google is God
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I agree with MV. No pastor should live beyond the means of the least of his congregation. If a homeless woman drops her shopping cart at the church entrance and then enters the church to give a dollar to charity, should the pastor live beyond her means? A dollar given may represent her 10%. Let’s assume that for her it is a a daily donation. That means that here total income is $70.00 / week. How is it possible for a preacher to ask her to give this amount without living in the same poverty that she is realizing. Yet I would not be surprised at those parishes that do not scrutinize these contributions. Shouldn’t they be vigilant as to the contributors? Many churches know their diocese but will not pursue the occassional drop in. Many would argue; “The pastor is learned and should therefore be compensated”. I too am learned. I understand that the noodly appendage touches us all. If I go door to door expressing this sentiment I should at least expect a donation to the spaghetti dinner / bingo night. Here you will achieve the holy imbibing of the pasta infestation as well as the divine meatball blessing accompanied by the sauce of the father (or mother depending on your gender preference). In addition, you may gamble away money that you contribute and then, if you are a winner, pull from it the funds of the needy who have chosen not to gamble and instead have made horrible sacrifices based on the promises made by the church. Sounds like fun ! ! !
Allow me to express in profundity; Praise be to pasta. May you only go soft when ready for consumption. Couscous is our smallest god but when assembled, can be powerful (and distasteful). Couscous is very possibly the demigod some may seek. Ignore Couscous and revile any references for it may be your next regurgitation. Evil lies within. It presents itself as a lower form of our beloved SM but is fractional in size. May it burn in the pots designed for its demise. Be damned and know thy name is truly GRITS. You fool not even the fools. PastaPhony shall by thy name and forever shall ye suffer the eternal flame of the stove. Boiling in water is thy fate and then flailing and thrashing on to the plate shall ye go. As ye writh in all your disgusting pieces ye will know, FSM still loves you. Now get into that trashbin post haste.
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It has been a long time since I last checked this thread and I am glad to see that it has evolved nicely. I particularly appreciated the posts by Mortal, perhaps because his (her?) situation and questions are similar to mine.
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Rachel seems to have almost the same doubts we (or at least many of us) once had and I feel that she will be touched by the noodly appendages very soon. Some people use religion as crutches, something that helps them in every day’s life (this is why Lenin said that religion was opium for the people). Most of those however, and Rachel is one of them, would be surprised to find out that they do not need any crutches and that it is much more pleasant to walk without them.
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RAmen and enjoy the Friday
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Rachel, I do want to say in case i have not that I appreciate that you are one of the few that post a message and continue the debate. No matter what your beliefs are, whether I agree or not, I do respect you and the pleasant way you interact with the members on this site.
Ramen!
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Praise be, the noodly one.
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Arrr! and R’Amen
***
Noodles
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@MV (and TimSmood): I completely agree with you about churches that really do waste money that could be used to help people. I just didn’t like the wording of the first statement, that churches “waste” money, because churches also help people. But some have gone overboard and I don’t think Jesus would be proud of that.
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@Miketti: “Did you miss the whole point? There are too many possible ideas to be open to them all.”
Note that I didn’t ask for anyone to be open to Christianity, I asked you to be open to the possibility that there is a God. That’s not one person’s crazy theory, but a belief that way more than half the world shares. Civilizations all over the world and all through history have believed in God(s), even when they had no contact with each other. I’m not saying their religions were great (human sacrifices aren’t valued in Christianity) but that it’s not just an obscure theory. I don’t think you should be open to everything, but if that many people believe in something, isn’t it worth considering, at least? And if you have seen evidence of something, of course you shouldn’t go against that evidence just because someone else thinks it’s wrong. “Merely having an open mind is nothing; the object of opening a mind, as of opening the mouth, is to shut it again on something solid.” –G.K. Chesterton
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@TimSmood: “After all, religions do not have a monopoly on compassion or love for one another as they would have many believe (i.e. if you’re not for us, you must be against us and therefore evil).”
Actually, Jesus said the opposite. And as for evidence…go to proofthatgodexists.org. (I didn’t create the website and I don’t agree with everything it says, but there actually is proof that God exists.)
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@Kira: I’m sorry to cause you pain, but maybe it’s a good thing for you to know that there are intelligent and reasonable Christians.
“…it really pains me to see you struggling to make excuses for an allegedly perfect entity that, if it existed, wouldn’t require neither excuses nor your protection.”
You’re right, God doesn’t need my excuses or protection. I just don’t like to see people either deliberately ignoring or openly bashing Him, and when I do, I want to respond. Does the FSM need your protection when people say stupid things about him? If I don’t respond to part of a post, it either means that I agree with it, or as you said, I can’t refute it. I figure you’d rather I didn’t waste my time trying. About referring to God as He…I guess my response could have been confusing. If you want me to try and explain it, I’d be happy to, but if you’re just trying to cut down everything I say, then I won’t bother.
“Yes. And if they don’t give it freely He, in his infinite mercy, tortures them forever!”
When have I said this? (I haven’t.)
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I’ll respond to the rest later.
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Rachel,
Thanks for posting the link. What do you disagree with? You can e-mail me through the site.
Cheers,
Sye
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It’s not blatantly disrespectful. It’s flattering your religion. So shut up and be polite.
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Your god is not real, or alive today. Prove me wrong and I’ll convert to Christianity in a heartbeat. Good luck.
Here’s to hoping His Noodly Appendage touches you,
-GM
RAmen
If you have any questions about, or just want to discuss the existence of the FSM, you can reach me at kanastag@comcast.net
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