Okay, so I know you’re probably not even going to read this, but I had to express myself.
First, a bit of my religious background. I was raised a Baptist, slowly came to realize that I didn’t believe a word the Bible says, and became Wiccan for two years. Then I had a “long dark night of the soul,” more commonly known as existential crisis, during the course of which I became agnostic. However, my closest friends are two devoted Catholics, an atheist, and another Wiccan. I do not make fun of or demean their beliefs, and they do not make fun of or demean me. None of us attempt to convert anyone, although we are willing to share information if asked for it. I am not sure what I think about the Kansas School Board issue, as it concerns the definition of science as well as faith, but I do know that even if I do not agree with some of my friends, I would never tell them they are being illogical.
Recently at my college, a spoken word artist performed. He was also agnostic, and one poem he wrote in particular spoke to me. He compared God to Diet Coke, saying that Diet Coke helps him get through the hard times in the same way that God helps others. So why take that away from people? The majority of Christians aren’t hurting anyone, are they? If their beliefs help them get through their lives without the despair I feel everyday due to my doubts, why ridicule them for it?
If you have actually read all this, thank you for your time. A reply, if you have time to write one, would be appreciated, but you do not have permission to repost my words anywhere.
Sincerely,
Z.E.
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An elaborate spoof on Intelligent Design, The Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster is neither too elaborate nor too spoofy to succeed in nailing the fallacies of ID. It's even wackier than Jonathan Swift's suggestion that the Irish eat their children as a way to keep them from being a burden, and it may offend just as many people, but Henderson, described elsewhere as a 25-year-old "out-of-work physics major," puts satire to the same serious use that Swift did. Oh, yes, it is very funny. -- Scientific American
It seems like a reasonable, sensible appeal…At first. The problem is that, even if a majority of people who have a belief in these supernatural dogmas don’t hurt anyone directly, they create an environment in which unsupportable ideas are tolerated. They therefore create a safe space for the growth and development of the fundamentalists–not to mention providing a fresh supply of pre-indoctrinated / brainwashed people who, given the right (or, rather, wrong) circumstances are ripe for “kicking things up a notch” and joining an extremist group.
That’s just one of the many reasons why these ideas are dangerous. A population inclined to believe things for which there is no evidence will be inclined to believe anything without evidence. Ever hear of the war in Iraq? They’re also not inclined to question or challenge people and ideas but are more than willing to threaten those who do. How Christian was it to threaten the lives of The Dixie Chicks who did nothing but say that they were ashamed the president was from Texas? And those are the mainstream believers who “aren’t hurting anyone”.
Irrational beliefs are bad for humanity and the rest of the planet. Except for FSMism, which is clearly the truth.
The majority of Christians are harmless?? Does the name George Bush mean anything to you? He has murdered thousands in the name of Christianity… never mind the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition and so on and so forth. Kristanity Kills. Oh yeah, the Christian bible is pretty violent also… read it from cover to cover some time.
Can you believe that the Dixie Chicks are still treated like mud people by much of that Southern country music listening Right Wing even though they have proven to be absolutely right on the money! In some circles their name will never be any good, even though they were clearly right-and right very early on.
Same goes with Michael Moore. Most everything he put out there in Farenheit 9/11 was clearly correct. But even today, there is a right wing crowd which attempts to discredit the argument the it was Bush’s inattention to the intelligence warnings and unwillingness to take preventative action which allowed 9/11 to happen even thought the case is now overwhelming that this is true. How does this group attempt to discredit anyone advancing this now obvious truth: they just say “that’s what Michael Moore said”. And of course on an a priori basis, anything Michael Moore says is wrong regardless of the facts. That’s the mindset is at least 20 percent of the American electorate. They will be the future Huckabee voters.
Z.E.,
All you say sounds sincere and is perfectly sensible. My issue is not religious beliefs. My issue is teaching science in school. Your poet’s comparison of God with Diet Coke is quite apt. I don’t want to see teachers using Diet Coke to explain the diversity of life on earth and the process which underlies it any more than I want to see some story about creation (there are so many!) being substituted or offered as an “alternative” to a valid and well established scientific theory. (Bear in mind gravity is a theory, not a fact.)
To me, personally, all these stories are wonderful in varying degrees and offer comfort or insight to people in varying degrees, just as poetry and music may. I have no issue with people seeking comfort.
But science is an intellectual discipline, which does not seek to establish beliefs without theory or without the ability to test the theory. Untestable, unquantifiable beliefs can not be part of science. Science is not religion and religion is not science. Those who fear for their religious beliefs because science has a different, and quite useful, story are having a crisis of faith best addressed in their church, not in the classroom.
Micheal Moore is an idiot. RAmen!
The last time I checked, christianity also threatens it’s believers once they are converted with going to hell, besides it being wrong, it is mean.
Your right! In fact this time of year when suicide rates are at its highest more people than ever needs to be touched by the noodlely appendage. But I think FSM needs help reaching everyone all over the world… you know because of the high volume of calls he/she/it is getting…. So I purpose we temporarily around this time of year worship flying monkeys. In the Wizard of Oz the witch had flying monkeys to help her and flying monkeys seems to me like the ideal personal assistant.
So everyone… pray for flying monkeys to help the Flying Spaghetti Monster to help all the weakened Christians souls we broken down with our presence.
Start a flying monkey prayer chain and what the heck… knock on all your neighbors door and tell them the importance of flying monkeys and the difference FSM has made in your life. You bet they wanted to know!
In noodles we trust! RAmon.
“Recently at my college, a spoken word artist performed. He was also agnostic, and one poem he wrote in particular spoke to me. He compared God to Diet Coke, saying that Diet Coke helps him get through the hard times in the same way that God helps others. So why take that away from people? The majority of Christians aren’t hurting anyone, are they? If their beliefs help them get through their lives without the despair I feel everyday due to my doubts, why ridicule them for it?”
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Would you condone the teaching of the world being flat? I mean if it helped people feel better about their lives…
Your are right to an extent. Think about this scenario… If god helps people get through a tough time, then why bash or try to tell them that they are wrong. Well the same could be said for Hitler and the whole Nazi party killing Jews… It helped them get through a tough time and I’m in no position to tell them that they are wrong. I realize that this may be extreme, but when you have irrational ideas exist and the only evidence you need to prove that you are right is your opinion or say that “god told me do do xyz” then it becomes dangerous. If people don’t try to stop the irrational ideas of religion and its supernatural god(s) then it becomes dangerous to society and it does not allow reason to succeed.
I agree that you don’t need to bash and be cruel and belittle and berate a person on their religion/faith, but when these people refuse to except modern ideas of science and reason, then your only option is to be degrading for they are being degrading to what the truth is…
I would agree on most points. Except that the daily ritual of explaining to people that I do not wish to become Christian/Catholic/Lutheran/etc has greatly decreased my respect for such religions. It may not be physically hurting me or anyone I know, but psychologically it is making it much more difficult for me to remain as open minded as I know it is important for me to be. They want me to respect their religion, but they don’t respect mine.
Faith in any form can be a beautiful thing, its the extremism that ruins it. Even as myself being a militant agnostic, I feel its unfair that the people replying to this post are bashing Christians for their bloody past..come, come now. FAITH is different than religion. And ridiculing those for actually having faith is the same thing as some Jesus-freak telling you you’re going to hell for not sharing the same beliefs. Who gives a shit who believes what? I haven’t prayed in years despite some incredibly crappy times…but I know plenty of people that credit God for bringing them out of dark places. So in short, I dig the analogy and it definitely touches me in the same way. I wish we could all just leave each other alone instead of trying to impose our beliefs and ideas on one another. Amen.
“Faith in any form can be a beautiful thing, its the extremism that ruins it.”
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Actually blind faith, and that is what religion is, is dangerous in every form. Extremism doesn’t ruin faith, religious faith makes it possible for extremism to flourish! Remember that extremists are the people that truly believe in what is being preached.
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“Even as myself being a militant agnostic, I feel its unfair that the people replying to this post are bashing Christians for their bloody past..come, come now.”
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Eh… The bloody past is what has given Christianity it’s status in most of the world. Why on earth should we ignore this part? This is what people did in the name of their God, for their God and to promote their God. Let’s absolutely never, ever forget this! To put it in Dr. Phil speak: “You have to own this!”
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“FAITH is different than religion. And ridiculing those for actually having faith is the same thing as some Jesus-freak telling you you’re going to hell for not sharing the same beliefs.”
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Making fun of people who proclaim the world is flat is okay!
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“Who gives a shit who believes what? I haven’t prayed in years despite some incredibly crappy times…but I know plenty of people that credit God for bringing them out of dark places.”
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That’s good for them! Too bad He doesn’t have time for poor, innocent and helpless children around the world that have been let down by the people who should care for them and live in poverty and starve and freeze and meet a long, slow death. Yaaay God!
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“So in short, I dig the analogy and it definitely touches me in the same way. I wish we could all just leave each other alone instead of trying to impose our beliefs and ideas on one another.”
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That’s impossible, if you look at all the religions they are incompatible with each other. And if you read the Bible you’ll notice it’s even incompatible with itself, and not to mention what a prick God really is! And remember, God does not condone other religions!
Honey,
The point isn’t to bash others, or denegrate other religions, it is to show the absurdity of how ALL religions act either corporately, in communion, theology, or propaganda. It is a hope that anyone with a half of an independent brain cell left would see the irony and begin to understand how they are acting, behaving, and/or believing in an oddly similar, yet crazy manner as those loud-mouth spaghetti people.
God with diet coke:
They first have unhealthy coke (religion). They then make it more healthy (science). The problem is it overall tastes like crap.
however, this does not mean we should just steal diet coke from people. I apologize for my fellow pastafarians that possibly have, I assure you I have never stolen anyones diet coke.
STOP TAKING DIET COKE AWAY FROM CHRISTIAN PEOPLE YOU SICK BASTARDS!!!
I get the impression that the majority of the theists in the world are decent people with whom I don’t have a problem being friends or neighbors. Unfortunately, the vocal minority of those theists support, propose, and enact ridiculous policies with have a devastating impact on our planet, country, and future. If the semi-sane majority of those theists would take a stand and stop enabling the fundamentalist theists by passively standing by, voting along theological lines, and financially supporting those evangelists, I’d feel a hell of a lot less inclined to be hostile to the theists.
I honestly don’t think many people have a problem with individuals using religion to help them get through their lives on a personal level. That being said should others be ridiculed for not believing in Christianity or any other religion? The problem is that very few religions are tolerant of other beliefs that are not in line with their own, hence all of the violence surrounding religion as a whole.
Babies do not come out of the womb possessing religious beliefs. Children do not automatically know how to tie their shoes, these things are taught. Teaching religion in schools as a science seems a little scary to me. After all that is what this is all about right? FSM would not exist if ID was not lingering out there, but the fact remains that someone is always trying to push their religion on someone or trying to make what is good for them good for everyone.
Honestly I can’t remember the last time someone tried to tell me that I am wrong for drinking diet coke or that I am going to burn in hell for drinking Pepsi. I wish I could say that about certain religions.
-Duncan
I am an avid Pastafarian, and I want to know, just who do you people think you are?
You assume, just because our ideas are different than yours, that we are trying to demean and make fun of you? I think that there is a serious issue of paranoia among every single one of you, and that the only reason you are contradicting our beliefs is because you just can’t be satisfied with your own. We have never said anything against your “God,” yet you scorn an belittle us with absolutely no self control! You have your beliefs, and we have the truth, and I think that you should just learn to be happy with what you’ve got, instead of trying to take away ours! Plus I think all of you are seriously overreacting and you need to just chill and lighten up a little bit because this really isn’t that big a deal, and you need to stop asking stupid and annoying questions like “Is this a joke?” all the time, because I think you all very well know that it is not a joke, and I condemn every single one of you for taking the name of the Flying Spaghetti Monster in vain.
-Dan
I don’t have a problem with people believing in God.
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I have a problem with people who use God to win arguments, conflicts, elections, debates, and wars.
The fact that mockery of Intelligent Design is misconstrued over and over again as mockery of Christianity is a stunning testament to how inextricably linked ID is to religion, despite its feeble claims of scientific theory-hood.
Dante Jan 2nd, 2008 at 7:45 am
“The fact that mockery of Intelligent Design is misconstrued over and over again as mockery of Christianity is a stunning testament to how inextricably linked ID is to religion, despite its feeble claims of scientific theory-hood.”
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RAmen Dante
May I quote and use your statement? (will credit it to you or to a wise Pirate :p)