Comments on: xmas discrimination at msu http://www.venganza.org/2007/12/16/xmas-discrimination-at-msu.htm Sat, 17 May 2008 12:14:57 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.2 By: IasasaI http://www.venganza.org/2007/12/16/xmas-discrimination-at-msu.htm#comment-434313 IasasaI Wed, 07 May 2008 06:50:06 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2007/12/16/xmas-discrimination-at-msu.htm#comment-434313 The primitiveness of modern monkeys astounds me. All of this vaunted equality, yet still dismissing things out of hand based on absurdity. Quite frankly, I find the notion of ANY deity absurd, yet equally absurd. Democratic society [though that's a misnomer] provides equal protection...it's not supposed to enter into judgment calls of how absurd a notion is, which is basically what happened here. It's so absurd [to them] that it just overloads their brain and sends them straight into "I'm ignoring you now" mode. Fortunately, those in positions of authority such as this situation, do not have that luxury of judging something's absurdity level...nothing can be afforded to be dismissed. THAT is the world we live in now, not the Dark Ages, where petty bureaucrats ruled over minor fiefdoms. The primitiveness of modern monkeys astounds me. All of this vaunted equality, yet still dismissing things out of hand based on absurdity. Quite frankly, I find the notion of ANY deity absurd, yet equally absurd. Democratic society [though that’s a misnomer] provides equal protection…it’s not supposed to enter into judgment calls of how absurd a notion is, which is basically what happened here. It’s so absurd [to them] that it just overloads their brain and sends them straight into “I’m ignoring you now” mode. Fortunately, those in positions of authority such as this situation, do not have that luxury of judging something’s absurdity level…nothing can be afforded to be dismissed. THAT is the world we live in now, not the Dark Ages, where petty bureaucrats ruled over minor fiefdoms.

]]> By: pitbull http://www.venganza.org/2007/12/16/xmas-discrimination-at-msu.htm#comment-409217 pitbull Fri, 25 Apr 2008 21:19:54 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2007/12/16/xmas-discrimination-at-msu.htm#comment-409217 @Curtis: actually, you can get rid of an ***hole, if you're willing to live with a colostomy bag. @Curtis: actually, you can get rid of an ***hole, if you’re willing to live with a colostomy bag.

]]> By: haha http://www.venganza.org/2007/12/16/xmas-discrimination-at-msu.htm#comment-407308 haha Thu, 24 Apr 2008 11:08:51 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2007/12/16/xmas-discrimination-at-msu.htm#comment-407308 "All worship the green llama. he is green therefore he is good" . what asshole rubbish. . it is perfectly okay to discriminate religion. Because it is such obvious shitt . if the Spaghetti monster made the world what made the Spaghetti monster? you are entering the concept of an infinite regress in which you don't know what god to worship because just behind it is a better one. . try the Green llama for size. he is of the opinion that a purple pancake on the head calms your qualms about his existence “All worship the green llama. he is green therefore he is good”
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what asshole rubbish.
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it is perfectly okay to discriminate religion. Because it is such obvious shitt
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if the Spaghetti monster made the world what made the Spaghetti monster? you are entering the concept of an infinite regress in which you don’t know what god to worship because just behind it is a better one.
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try the Green llama for size. he is of the opinion that a purple pancake on the head calms your qualms about his existence

]]> By: Sarah http://www.venganza.org/2007/12/16/xmas-discrimination-at-msu.htm#comment-406881 Sarah Thu, 24 Apr 2008 03:20:47 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2007/12/16/xmas-discrimination-at-msu.htm#comment-406881 @henry.darger Just so you know, you can't believe everything you read on wikipedia. @henry.darger

Just so you know, you can’t believe everything you read on wikipedia.

]]> By: Austin http://www.venganza.org/2007/12/16/xmas-discrimination-at-msu.htm#comment-405043 Austin Tue, 22 Apr 2008 23:33:35 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2007/12/16/xmas-discrimination-at-msu.htm#comment-405043 I am very surprised at this...Complete and UTTER discrimination. I am very surprised at this…Complete and UTTER discrimination.

]]> By: Curtis http://www.venganza.org/2007/12/16/xmas-discrimination-at-msu.htm#comment-392027 Curtis Fri, 18 Apr 2008 02:05:33 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2007/12/16/xmas-discrimination-at-msu.htm#comment-392027 Dear Henry.Danger You can believe what ever you want, you are afforded that right if you are a United States Citizen. In the Bill of Rights, First Amendment, and I'm quating "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, or the right of people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." Whether you wish to believe or not you have no true say on what the beliefs are no one can discriminate you. You can have an opionon but that is all and well yours is just as valided as anyone elses you must remeber the saying "Opionons are like ***holes every ones got one and no one can get rid of one!" Respecfully Curtis Dear Henry.Danger
You can believe what ever you want, you are afforded that right if you are a United States Citizen. In the Bill of Rights, First Amendment, and I’m quating “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, or the right of people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.” Whether you wish to believe or not you have no true say on what the beliefs are no one can discriminate you. You can have an opionon but that is all and well yours is just as valided as anyone elses you must remeber the saying “Opionons are like ***holes every ones got one and no one can get rid of one!”

Respecfully
Curtis

]]> By: henry.darger http://www.venganza.org/2007/12/16/xmas-discrimination-at-msu.htm#comment-385156 henry.darger Mon, 14 Apr 2008 17:59:31 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2007/12/16/xmas-discrimination-at-msu.htm#comment-385156 considering that everyone knows how and why the whole FSM story got started, I would find it highly unusual that any institution or organization would take it seriously. "The Flying Spaghetti Monster (also known as the Spaghedeity) is the deity of a parody religion[1] called The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster and its system of beliefs, "Pastafarianism".[2] The religion was founded in 2005 by Bobby Henderson to protest the decision by the Kansas State Board of Education to require the teaching of intelligent design as an alternative to biological evolution. Because intelligent design implies the existence of an intelligent, but not necessarily omnipotent or omniscient designer, some, like Henderson, argued that this designer could, in fact, be anything imaginable." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster considering that everyone knows how and why the whole FSM story got started, I would find it highly unusual that any institution or organization would take it seriously.

“The Flying Spaghetti Monster (also known as the Spaghedeity) is the deity of a parody religion[1] called The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster and its system of beliefs, “Pastafarianism”.[2] The religion was founded in 2005 by Bobby Henderson to protest the decision by the Kansas State Board of Education to require the teaching of intelligent design as an alternative to biological evolution. Because intelligent design implies the existence of an intelligent, but not necessarily omnipotent or omniscient designer, some, like Henderson, argued that this designer could, in fact, be anything imaginable.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster

]]> By: BlackBard http://www.venganza.org/2007/12/16/xmas-discrimination-at-msu.htm#comment-384402 BlackBard Mon, 14 Apr 2008 13:14:01 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2007/12/16/xmas-discrimination-at-msu.htm#comment-384402 Now that Easter and Pastover are behind us, I would be interested to know whether Pastafarians were allowed a seasonal display and whether any other religions erected displays. How about an update? . RAmen Now that Easter and Pastover are behind us, I would be interested to know whether Pastafarians were allowed a seasonal display and whether any other religions erected displays. How about an update?
.
RAmen

]]> By: Linus http://www.venganza.org/2007/12/16/xmas-discrimination-at-msu.htm#comment-382100 Linus Sun, 13 Apr 2008 22:01:34 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2007/12/16/xmas-discrimination-at-msu.htm#comment-382100 @Nametabs This is about more than "having fun." This is a serious violation of personal liberty guaranteed by the Constitution, as written by our Founding Fathers. Whether the FSM is a real god or not, is irrelevant. What is relevant is that the laws (or in this case the policies of MSU) MUST be applied equally and that government cannot promote religion. The First Amendment of the Constitution forbids the Congress from establishing a religion and from preventing an individual to practice their religion of choice. As the Supreme Court has interpreted the Constitution, the Court has expanded the Bill of Rights (the first ten Amendments of the Constitution written by the founders of this country) to apply not only the national (federal) government but to ALSO state governments. As a publicly funded university, MSU is forbidden from promoting any religion. By permitting the menorah and christmas tree to be displayed, and excluding the FSM display, MSU has violated the First Amendment of the Constitution. MSU administrators are in effect promoting Judiasm and Christianity. When MSU refused to provide the policy for displays in the common area to the official, university recognized student group Pastafarian Student Union, MSU deans was overtly practicing discrimination. And when the university president, provost, administrators, and board of trustees allowed this discriminatory policy to continue, and did not stop or reprimand the offending employees, it not only violated the law but the ethics of an institution of learning. Their inaction not only condoned the offending dean’s behavior, but was immoral and ILLEGAL. It is interesting to note that the Supreme Court has an exhibit of the ten commandments in the Court building. But this is not establishment of religion because also displayed are laws of other religions and societies. The laws of Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, Hammurabi are also displayed. Where MSU went wrong: No written policy for displays in public spaces (or refusal to provide the policy when requested). Discriminatory practices that allowed select groups to erect displays in public spaces while denying other groups the same access. Allowing a bigoted dean to unilaterally decide what would be displayed with no accountability for those decisions. Failure to respond to genuine requests for access to display in public spaces. Permitted one administrator who obviously does not care about students, student rights, student funds, or the U.S. Constitution, to unilaterally make decisions about public space usage while denying the students (for whom the university exists) information on how to conform to policies and procedures. (Stone should be fired.) Remedies: MSU must establish and disseminate a written policy for access to public spaces for displays of any and all kinds. MSU must establish and disseminate a written policy for funds for such displays. MSU must issue formal reprimands for university staff and faculty who failed to address the concerns of the PSU in a timely manner. MSU must clearly state that it will not tolerate discrimination of any kind, with appropriate consequences outlined, AND FOLLOW THAT POLICY. Fire Stone. What PSU should do next fall: Work with established Hindu, Muslim, Buddhist groups to ensure that they, along with the PSU, will have equal access to everything (i.e., same funds, spaces, activities, information, polices, etc.) to which other student groups (religious or secular) have access. Demand copies of relevant policies as soon as school begins, and challenge illegal discriminatory policies immediately. Be prepared to contact the ACLU if MSU continues (or permits its employees) to practice religious discrimination and to deny equal access, or refuses to address student concerns in a timely and appropriate manner. (I don't have time to deal with your emails is NOT appropriate). @Nametabs

This is about more than “having fun.” This is a serious violation of personal liberty guaranteed by the Constitution, as written by our Founding Fathers. Whether the FSM is a real god or not, is irrelevant. What is relevant is that the laws (or in this case the policies of MSU) MUST be applied equally and that government cannot promote religion.

The First Amendment of the Constitution forbids the Congress from establishing a religion and from preventing an individual to practice their religion of choice. As the Supreme Court has interpreted the Constitution, the Court has expanded the Bill of Rights (the first ten Amendments of the Constitution written by the founders of this country) to apply not only the national (federal) government but to ALSO state governments.

As a publicly funded university, MSU is forbidden from promoting any religion. By permitting the menorah and christmas tree to be displayed, and excluding the FSM display, MSU has violated the First Amendment of the Constitution. MSU administrators are in effect promoting Judiasm and Christianity.

When MSU refused to provide the policy for displays in the common area to the official, university recognized student group Pastafarian Student Union, MSU deans was overtly practicing discrimination. And when the university president, provost, administrators, and board of trustees allowed this discriminatory policy to continue, and did not stop or reprimand the offending employees, it not only violated the law but the ethics of an institution of learning. Their inaction not only condoned the offending dean’s behavior, but was immoral and ILLEGAL.

It is interesting to note that the Supreme Court has an exhibit of the ten commandments in the Court building. But this is not establishment of religion because also displayed are laws of other religions and societies. The laws of Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, Hammurabi are also displayed.

Where MSU went wrong:
No written policy for displays in public spaces (or refusal to provide the policy when requested).

Discriminatory practices that allowed select groups to erect displays in public spaces while denying other groups the same access.

Allowing a bigoted dean to unilaterally decide what would be displayed with no accountability for those decisions.

Failure to respond to genuine requests for access to display in public spaces.

Permitted one administrator who obviously does not care about students, student rights, student funds, or the U.S. Constitution, to unilaterally make decisions about public space usage while denying the students (for whom the university exists) information on how to conform to policies and procedures. (Stone should be fired.)

Remedies:
MSU must establish and disseminate a written policy for access to public spaces for displays of any and all kinds.

MSU must establish and disseminate a written policy for funds for such displays.

MSU must issue formal reprimands for university staff and faculty who failed to address the concerns of the PSU in a timely manner.

MSU must clearly state that it will not tolerate discrimination of any kind, with appropriate consequences outlined, AND FOLLOW THAT POLICY.

Fire Stone.

What PSU should do next fall:
Work with established Hindu, Muslim, Buddhist groups to ensure that they, along with the PSU, will have equal access to everything (i.e., same funds, spaces, activities, information, polices, etc.) to which other student groups (religious or secular) have access.

Demand copies of relevant policies as soon as school begins, and challenge illegal discriminatory policies immediately.

Be prepared to contact the ACLU if MSU continues (or permits its employees) to practice religious discrimination and to deny equal access, or refuses to address student concerns in a timely and appropriate manner. (I don’t have time to deal with your emails is NOT appropriate).

]]> By: Lily B. http://www.venganza.org/2007/12/16/xmas-discrimination-at-msu.htm#comment-344248 Lily B. Thu, 27 Mar 2008 21:00:14 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2007/12/16/xmas-discrimination-at-msu.htm#comment-344248 Ooh, that's just ridiculous! What right do they have to say that Pastafarianism isn't true? I would LOVE to see somebody take up a lawsuit against them, really. What they're doing is highly illegal and just plain immoral, as well. I know that if anybody attempted this at MY school, we'd have around a billion people climbing up their asses about it. That's what should be happening at MSU. Hopefully, someone will do something about this. It's hard to believe that this type of discrimination is still allowed to happen in this country. Ooh, that’s just ridiculous! What right do they have to say that Pastafarianism isn’t true?
I would LOVE to see somebody take up a lawsuit against them, really. What they’re doing is highly illegal and just plain immoral, as well.
I know that if anybody attempted this at MY school, we’d have around a billion people climbing up their asses about it. That’s what should be happening at MSU.
Hopefully, someone will do something about this. It’s hard to believe that this type of discrimination is still allowed to happen in this country.

]]> By: Nametabs http://www.venganza.org/2007/12/16/xmas-discrimination-at-msu.htm#comment-343419 Nametabs Thu, 27 Mar 2008 10:15:37 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2007/12/16/xmas-discrimination-at-msu.htm#comment-343419 Lighten up, we having fun here aren't we (or you guys are, I'm a newbie). How about not mocking their beliefs in their faces. Have fun in our own area and don't insult them. Their beliefs are personal and important and I wouldn't want to leave hurt feelings. We can mock (false) religions without confronting them. Lighten up, we having fun here aren’t we (or you guys are, I’m a newbie). How about not mocking their beliefs in their faces. Have fun in our own area and don’t insult them. Their beliefs are personal and important and I wouldn’t want to leave hurt feelings. We can mock (false) religions without confronting them.

]]> By: James http://www.venganza.org/2007/12/16/xmas-discrimination-at-msu.htm#comment-335251 James Sun, 16 Mar 2008 15:40:27 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2007/12/16/xmas-discrimination-at-msu.htm#comment-335251 Ahh screw them, I mean they're assholes and what they're doing is illegal! Pirate #1 trillion is right, we should take up a lawsuit. As long as an organization accepts public funds it has to abide by people's rights. i.e.. the boy-scouts accept public funds and use public property for their meets for as little as $1, which means that they cannot legally exclude gays. Or MSU accepts public funds and therefore it's anti pirate/pastafarian agenda is illegal. -J.T.S. Ahh screw them, I mean they’re assholes and what they’re doing is illegal! Pirate #1 trillion is right, we should take up a lawsuit. As long as an organization accepts public funds it has to abide by people’s rights. i.e.. the boy-scouts accept public funds and use public property for their meets for as little as $1, which means that they cannot legally exclude gays. Or MSU accepts public funds and therefore it’s anti pirate/pastafarian agenda is illegal.
-J.T.S.

]]> By: Pirate #1 trillion (obsessed with booty) http://www.venganza.org/2007/12/16/xmas-discrimination-at-msu.htm#comment-331006 Pirate #1 trillion (obsessed with booty) Mon, 10 Mar 2008 13:58:17 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2007/12/16/xmas-discrimination-at-msu.htm#comment-331006 Hi, Does anyone know if the teacher or the student got a lawyer and took this issue to court? I would be willing to find legal counsel and even help fund it. This is simply a matter showing that we are serious. People like Dean Stone are intolerant and do not understand letters, even letters that explain what she is doing is illegal, so I say we stop telling her we're serious and start showing her we're serious. Hi,

Does anyone know if the teacher or the student got a lawyer and took this issue to court? I would be willing to find legal counsel and even help fund it. This is simply a matter showing that we are serious. People like Dean Stone are intolerant and do not understand letters, even letters that explain what she is doing is illegal, so I say we stop telling her we’re serious and start showing her we’re serious.

]]> By: erik http://www.venganza.org/2007/12/16/xmas-discrimination-at-msu.htm#comment-325074 erik Mon, 03 Mar 2008 23:23:27 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2007/12/16/xmas-discrimination-at-msu.htm#comment-325074 They allow a Christian display but nto a Pastafarian one? That's illegal, take the infidels to the supreme court that they may order the legal equivalenccy of a damn good stoning! They allow a Christian display but nto a Pastafarian one?
That’s illegal, take the infidels to the supreme court that they may order the legal equivalenccy of a damn good stoning!

]]> By: cabin girl http://www.venganza.org/2007/12/16/xmas-discrimination-at-msu.htm#comment-322349 cabin girl Fri, 29 Feb 2008 00:59:02 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2007/12/16/xmas-discrimination-at-msu.htm#comment-322349 P.S., JT's blog doesn't have an update either. (sigh) P.S., JT’s blog doesn’t have an update either. (sigh)

]]> By: Captian Jason of HNS Cook with a Little Oil and Salt http://www.venganza.org/2007/12/16/xmas-discrimination-at-msu.htm#comment-321197 Captian Jason of HNS Cook with a Little Oil and Salt Wed, 27 Feb 2008 13:15:46 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2007/12/16/xmas-discrimination-at-msu.htm#comment-321197 Thought you might like to read my letter Dear Sir I come from South Africa, a diverse and exciting blend of cultures, languages and races. Our history is dark, one of violence and segregation. Through persistance and an aim to right the wrongs, great men and women changed the future of my country. We now tolerate all peoples as we have come to realise that everyone is equal to life, choice, speech and religion - to name a few. Please will you accept my brothers and sisters who follow the Flying Spaghetti Monster's wise teachings at your institute. We as a church have struggled in the past and I fear that the negative way our situation is being handled and portrayed may cause riffs in our society. My brothers and sisters have been very accomodating to the other students and their beliefs- don't we need that kind of treatment too? May Noodley appendage guild and protect you Concerned Pastafarian Captian Jason of HNS (His Noodlyness' Ship) Cook With a Little Oil and Salt Thought you might like to read my letter

Dear Sir

I come from South Africa, a diverse and exciting blend of cultures, languages and races. Our history is dark, one of violence and segregation. Through persistance and an aim to right the wrongs, great men and women changed the future of my country. We now tolerate all peoples as we have come to realise that everyone is equal to life, choice, speech and religion - to name a few. Please will you accept my brothers and sisters who follow the Flying Spaghetti Monster’s wise teachings at your institute. We as a church have struggled in the past and I fear that the negative way our situation is being handled and portrayed may cause riffs in our society. My brothers and sisters have been very accomodating to the other students and their beliefs- don’t we need that kind of treatment too?

May Noodley appendage guild and protect you

Concerned Pastafarian

Captian Jason of HNS (His Noodlyness’ Ship) Cook With a Little Oil and Salt

]]> By: cabin girl http://www.venganza.org/2007/12/16/xmas-discrimination-at-msu.htm#comment-318305 cabin girl Sat, 23 Feb 2008 02:48:41 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2007/12/16/xmas-discrimination-at-msu.htm#comment-318305 So, O Holy Henderson, what's the deal? Why have you forsaken us? I got all emotional about this injustice, and you haven't updated us in two months! Is there to be no satisfaction for all of us fighting this battle vicariously?? I know the Noodly One is out there watching over us, but sometimes it's hard to keep the faith...(sniff......) So, O Holy Henderson, what’s the deal? Why have you forsaken us? I got all emotional about this injustice, and you haven’t updated us in two months! Is there to be no satisfaction for all of us fighting this battle vicariously?? I know the Noodly One is out there watching over us, but sometimes it’s hard to keep the faith…(sniff……)

]]> By: Jill Gosseck http://www.venganza.org/2007/12/16/xmas-discrimination-at-msu.htm#comment-298999 Jill Gosseck Thu, 31 Jan 2008 22:44:41 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2007/12/16/xmas-discrimination-at-msu.htm#comment-298999 I recently found that FSM is huge at my college, Spokane Community College, with students and faculty alilke. Then I started noticing that it's not just limited to the college. Spokane loves FSM!!! go pastafarians!!! I recently found that FSM is huge at my college, Spokane Community College, with students and faculty alilke. Then I started noticing that it’s not just limited to the college. Spokane loves FSM!!! go pastafarians!!!

]]> By: Response to Loki http://www.venganza.org/2007/12/16/xmas-discrimination-at-msu.htm#comment-292181 Response to Loki Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:40:39 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2007/12/16/xmas-discrimination-at-msu.htm#comment-292181 *receive replies in your normal inbox *receive replies in your normal inbox

]]> By: Response to Loki http://www.venganza.org/2007/12/16/xmas-discrimination-at-msu.htm#comment-292179 Response to Loki Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:39:21 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2007/12/16/xmas-discrimination-at-msu.htm#comment-292179 If you make an e-mail with Earthlink (I've had it for a very long time and don't remember if they charge, but you can check), they give you five free aliases, all that you can anonymously send e-mail from and you will receive in your normal inbox. It's a nice tool to have when you want to send people like this e-mail. If you make an e-mail with Earthlink (I’ve had it for a very long time and don’t remember if they charge, but you can check), they give you five free aliases, all that you can anonymously send e-mail from and you will receive in your normal inbox. It’s a nice tool to have when you want to send people like this e-mail.

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