JT of the Missouri State University Pastafarians has told me about some troubling discrimination.
The MSU campus is displaying a Holiday Tree and Menorah - but requests to put up a FSM Holiday display were denied, then false hurdles put in place, and now it seems that communication is being ignored.
It should be noted that Pastafarians are an officially recognized student organization at MSU, with the support of many of MSU’s finest faculty members.
It seems clear that the denial of the FSM display is due to the Dean of the Humanities Dept. and building coordinator, Dr. Lorene Stone.
The display is spectacular, and tasteful by anyone’s standards.
Take a look:
JT and MSU Chemistry professor Dr. Mark Richter have documented their correspondence with Dean Stone. It’s an extremely interesting read; everyone should take a look: JT’s blog post about this.
A note to Dean Stone: you’re running a school, NOT a religious organization. It’s not your place to push your personal beliefs on anyone, nor is it your place to reject beliefs that you don’t subscribe to or take seriously. Jesus would not approve of what you’re doing.
–UPDATE —
It seems the MSU administration is unwilling to discuss the matter. Dean Stone’s most recent correspondence said “I am VERY busy and do not have time to continue this e-mail dialogue with you.”
MSU President Dr. Michael Nietzel has been notified of the issue.
We need your help. We’d like the administration to get a sense of the number of people concerned about this issue. If you choose to write the administration with your views, PLEASE be courteous and respectful. The issue here is equality, not whether Pastafarianism is better than any other belief system.
Dr. Lorene Stone:
lorenestone@missouristate.edu
417-836-5529
Dr. Michael T. Nietzel:
President@missouristate.edu
Thanks for your help.
– UPDATE 2 –
I’ve been forwarded some replies by MSU President Dr. Michael Niezel, which, if accurate, indicate that the administration offered to allow the Pastafarian display to be placed in a different building.
I would like to know why the Pastafarian display is not allowed to be placed next to the other religious displays.
I believe Dr. Stone made the decision to deny the placement of the Pastafarian display based on her biased personal views, and that her decision is being upheld by the administration above her for political reasons.
My view is that a building administrator who allows a Christian and Jewish display, but denies a Pastafarian display has acted inappropriately.
What do you think? Is it enough to be allowed to place the display in another building?
Just stick the thing up. It’s not hurting anyone. Unless it sets fire to the place.
A bit rude, Ms Stone.
Nice decorations! Those are very creative!
-Avatar of Reason
That’s very pretty!
Petition, the display looks fairly small and as the Pastafarians are recognised as a student group, it shouldn’t be too difficult to collect a large number of signatures.
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As far as the admin is concerned, request specific reasons for the refusal of permission to set up the display, if there are good reasons, knowing them will make it possible to address them. If no reasons are forthcoming, or communication continues to be ignored, send a representative of the pastafarians in person to whoever is in charge of which displays are allowed and which aren’t, to ask for the reasons, on the basis that the group are assuming their communication to said official were lost, not just ignored.
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Now fingers crossed, will it post?
I think my post got lost, sorry if it shows up twice, just the main points in case it does:
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Start a petition, the pastafarians are a recognised group, they have the right to put up a display.
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If it hasn’t already been done, ask for specific reasons why the FSM display is not allowed.
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If no reasons are forthcoming, send a pastafarian to the official in charge of which displays are allowed, explain your concern that communications from the pastafarians don’t seem to be reaching him/her and ask (politely) if he/she could explain why the FSM display is not allowed.
Looks like the post was just delayed.
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Going through the students’ union could help too, although in my college the SU is purely for show with no real power, they could help with a petition or advise on who might be able to influence Dr. Stone to reconsider.
Commodore Angryy,
Ack! I’m sorry, I do always try to respond to e-mails. Please understand that I get so many (criticizing religion in this area will do that). Please e-mail me again so I can see who you are and pray I haven’t deleted it.
I’m sorry!
JT
If Old Grouch is right about that part of Missouri (perhaps JT could verify this?) a media campaign would be useless. The media is most likely very christian and so is their audience, meaning that playing a story about this would actually hurt their business. I do like the thought of an E-mail campaign (I’ll be sending one after my next couple of finals) and the caroling. If the caroling is done on private property, there’s not much that can be done (legally, but since when do fundies care about that?). A petition could hold some sway, but if the students are mostly christians, it may well fail.
Tid bits for everybody:
The university legal representative has informed us that he believes the university is within its legal rights. I’m no lawyer, but I can’t help but disagree looking at such cases as the Lynch and Allegheny County trials. Also, the ruling in Chabad of Southern Ohio & Congregation Lubavitch v. City of Cincinnati (2004) seems quite clear as well. Furthermore, it seems that similar cases are being won elsewhere in the country right now, so I’m not sure exactly how ingenuous he’s being. It could very well be that he, like Dr. Stone, expect to feed us a line of bullshit and have us go away - which may sadly be one of our only remaining option.
I’m holding out to see how effective this e-mail campaign will be. After that, I may just drop a line to the ACLU. We have already hinted at it to the Administration and they do not seem to care. What do you guys think?
Thank you again for all the help.
JT
I think it’s lovely. That FSM statue is way cuter than a menorah - I don’t see why it’s not up.
Does anyone have any figures of how many emails get sent on average when we all decide to get arsey about this type of issue? If not, don’t worry …. I’ve requested the info from Dr Stone.
Flying Spaghetti Monster LAWSUIT!
My Dear Dr. Stone,
You should know that I am offering to chip in for a fund, to sue as many as possible -including individuals (and I would hope there would be no financial support from the school as discrimination cannot be their policy)- who are instrumental in denying this holiday display of The Flying Spaghetti Monster.
Reverently,
Fizzmick Pa Chee
P.S., Dr. Richter’s hot.
I have the impression that you are overlooking something. This is not exactly a matter of freedom of religion or freedom of expression (or lack of) or even a matter of discrimination between religions.
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As the first reply by Dr Stone points out the Tree and the Menorah are secular symbols, not religious and therefore should not be compared with FSM religious symbols. I am not sure about the Menorah but a so-called “christmas tree” is certainly not a symbol of christianity (I even know of some xtian fundamentalists who refuse such trees as being pagan).
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So the solution is to invent some pastafarian-linked non-religious symbol of the Winter solstice holidays, which then should be accepted as other secular symbols of the same period.
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Ramen
This was my contribution:
“Dear Dr. Stone,
I have come across the discussion about religious symbols on public display at your university, such as holiday tree and Menorah. Of course, these affairs are far from being my business, but I support equal rights in general by heart. The Christmas tree, as we call it here in Europe, is a pagan symbol adopted by early Christians, and by this, from a historical point of view, he represents not a “true” religious symbol. The Menorah, however, certainly does. Thus, I would kindly ask you to allow other religious groups to put their symbols on display at the same place, too.
I would like to kindly beg you to allow my fellow pastafarians at your institute to set up their holiday FSM symbol in the same way as other religions are allowed to do, especially since, as far as I can judge, the FSM artwork under discussion is at least as graceful as the tree!
Be touched by the FSM’s Noodly Appendages!”
Great looking decoration. Clearly belong there right next to the creche and the Menorrah. They would not do this with a Quanzai decoration, and they have no right to put a value judgement on the FSM decoration.
You know, if I raid my basement I could probably recreate this image of the Noodly One.
And as for the issue at hand, I agree that it would be easier to deal with once the specific reasons are known. I know, I pull that card on my parents all the time…but I never really get answers.
My post got lost too. I shall be mailing Ms Stone!!!
We should all send her FSM holiday cards. We have her email address.. FIRE AWAY!
Mine in enroute!
Jeff
“in his noodly image”
All tis serves to illustrate something. How could a one size heaven fit all. In a way the fundamentalists are right to say we would not fit in their concept of heaven. Their mistake is in believing that such a place could indeed be heaven for everyone-and being excluded from it would be interpreted as a punishment.
Does anyone seriously believe that even after death, they would buy into a pearly gate, beatuific vision, no sex, no food, not alcohol pure spirit, Jesus jamboree with people like Falwell, Robertson, and JPII as a really cool reward for a life well lived?
This is one of the areas where the Xtain vision falls apart at the seams. Mark Twain first noted this in one of his later writings. (In case anyone doesn’t know Twain was an atheist-a fact which was well hidden until several decades after his death) In it he talks about how obnoxious the christian vision of heaven with its constant singing of hymns would be. He really hit on something there. I’m amazed how little discussion there is in the popular culture about how absurd and banal is the so called reward being offered after we serve the xtain divinity.