JT of the Missouri State University Pastafarians has told me about some troubling discrimination.
The MSU campus is displaying a Holiday Tree and Menorah - but requests to put up a FSM Holiday display were denied, then false hurdles put in place, and now it seems that communication is being ignored.
It should be noted that Pastafarians are an officially recognized student organization at MSU, with the support of many of MSU’s finest faculty members.
It seems clear that the denial of the FSM display is due to the Dean of the Humanities Dept. and building coordinator, Dr. Lorene Stone.
The display is spectacular, and tasteful by anyone’s standards.
Take a look:
JT and MSU Chemistry professor Dr. Mark Richter have documented their correspondence with Dean Stone. It’s an extremely interesting read; everyone should take a look: JT’s blog post about this.
A note to Dean Stone: you’re running a school, NOT a religious organization. It’s not your place to push your personal beliefs on anyone, nor is it your place to reject beliefs that you don’t subscribe to or take seriously. Jesus would not approve of what you’re doing.
–UPDATE —
It seems the MSU administration is unwilling to discuss the matter. Dean Stone’s most recent correspondence said “I am VERY busy and do not have time to continue this e-mail dialogue with you.”
MSU President Dr. Michael Nietzel has been notified of the issue.
We need your help. We’d like the administration to get a sense of the number of people concerned about this issue. If you choose to write the administration with your views, PLEASE be courteous and respectful. The issue here is equality, not whether Pastafarianism is better than any other belief system.
Dr. Lorene Stone:
lorenestone@missouristate.edu
417-836-5529
Dr. Michael T. Nietzel:
President@missouristate.edu
Thanks for your help.
– UPDATE 2 –
I’ve been forwarded some replies by MSU President Dr. Michael Niezel, which, if accurate, indicate that the administration offered to allow the Pastafarian display to be placed in a different building.
I would like to know why the Pastafarian display is not allowed to be placed next to the other religious displays.
I believe Dr. Stone made the decision to deny the placement of the Pastafarian display based on her biased personal views, and that her decision is being upheld by the administration above her for political reasons.
My view is that a building administrator who allows a Christian and Jewish display, but denies a Pastafarian display has acted inappropriately.
What do you think? Is it enough to be allowed to place the display in another building?
First comment, w00t!
Thanks for the forthcoming help everybody.
JT
Can we PLEASE get those kind of chriFSMas tree’s in the FSM store? I just LOVE them. finnaly a way to truly celebrate holiday, which is of course the greatest holiday ever.
“Pastafarians: We’re looking for peaceful solutions to resolve this. Ideas?”
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A grass roots email campaign seemded to work quite well 2 threads back. Let’s get at it again.
The laughable part is that Dr. Stone didn’t see it coming to this.
Since I don’t happen to have “MySpace” membership, I cannot reply to the young man on his own blog. However, I certainly wish him, and those supporting him, all the very best in getting a reasonable solution to the current quandry of just what is happening there; and why the Dean chooses to allow SOME “religious” symbols while refusing to allow others.
On the other hand, one must remember that, in dealing with this matter, one is in Missouri, a part of what is generally known as “The Bible Belt”. And this is an area in which “fundamentalist” bibliolatry still holds great sway; especially out in the backwoods and hinterlands, where Springfield is located. And, I am afraid that the potential for reasonable response, and/or solution, is so minimal as to be almost non-existent there. Indeed, one might note that, even more than a Century after Mark Twain, the “Hatfields and McCoys” still stand out as one of the principal illustrations of rural Missouri’s level of cultural accomplishments.
We had a similar problem here at Tech. I’m pretty sure that our president (of the Pastafarian club) dropped the four letters “A’, “C”, “L”, and “U” a bit before the university suddenly perked right up. That may have been a coincidence (yeah right), but I have an idea on why it might work. You see, christians base everything they do off of fear: fear of eternal torture, fear of being found out as a homsexual, fear of being called on their overtly unconstitutional actions, etc. That’s why I don’t think you will have to do much more than contacting those organizations, especially the off-campus ones. Remember, the bigger the name, the better.
Gold!
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And I’m not just referring to my post; you could probably get some serious gold out of a discrimination lawsuit. Ok, I was mostly referring to my post…
post her email address - this woman should not be in charge of a university; how can a dean be allowed to deny free speech even if it contradicts her own personal beliefs? - absolutely disgusting behavior.
That sounds pretty messed up to me. How dare they try and exclude the Pastafarians! I think I smell an email-campaign coming on here. If Dean Stone won’t listen to 1 Pastafarian, maybe she’ll be inclined to listen if the rest of us put in our opinion (respectfully, of course).
Dr. Richter sounds like a good guy. Dr. Lorene Stone needs to accept the fact that if your going to publicly support one or two religions, you have to have equal support for ALL religions.
in any case i think we, pastafarians as a whole that is, should be aloud to display our religious beliefs just as much as anyone else
Take it to the newspapers. The more people know about it, the more likely the dean will allow the display to be put up to avoid a law suit.
If that doesn’t work, take it to court as a violation of the First Amendment of the Constitution.
I vote for another e-mail campaign, if you can direct us to the right people to send it to.
This was awesome JT.
My admiration goes to you and your group once again.
I don’t think any amount of reasoning will get Dean Stone to allow a Pastafarian display before ChrisFSMas. These ignint stubborn bureaucrats who seem to be in charge of many of our educational institutions don’t like to make fair decisions or changes, let alone within a reasonable amount of time. I think the MSU Pastafarians might try putting up the display off campus, maybe on a frat lawn (if permissible). Add a sign protesting the exclusion from campus and notify the media, go home eat some pasta, get drunk, and repeat.
Doesn’t surprise me really. After all, it’s the man trying to keep us down.
JT Eberhard continues to amaze me.
And the good Prof. as well.
Good luck, MSU Pastafarians!!!
I think he should contact the legal department in the university. Aquiet word in the deans ear should do the trick.
How about Pastafarian carolers in full pirate regalia singing at Dr. stone’s home???? I bet it would make the papers everywhere….
MTU and now MSU? What is wrong with the Universities that happen to have the letter M in front of them? Moronic, Misleading, Malcontented, Miserably lacking in cultural and religious tolerance?
This must end!
My first post didn’t seem to “take”, so am re-submitting: How about having Pastafarian carolers in full pirate regalia singing at Dr. Stone’s house???? She’d probably love it, and the newspapers would too….
My Letter to the Benevolent Dr.:
Dr. Stone,
I am concerned about the discriminatory practices recently displayed concerning the requests of certain student religious organizations and their wishes to erect a holiday display on the University Grounds.
Your emails seemed tyrannical and smelled of dictatorship. (not a good smell.)
I recommend you reconsider your position and allow all religious groups the opportunity you have so benevolently allowed to the faithful followers of judaism and christianity. ARe they better people than the Muslims and Pastafari, or do they just have more money, or perhaps they have been around a lot longer than other groups and should be afforded more attention?
Jesse Stetson
How to resolve the obvious lack of humour and of ability to relativate displayed by people in charge? Nah, just give it a lot of publicity, until the people in charge get annoyed with it… YouTube can be a nice tool! And at the moment far more efficient than this very site, moderated in a quite sloppy way… grrr!
I shall be mailing Ms Stone immediately
Arrrrrrrr
I’d be more than happy to participate in an email or letter campaign.
Maybe all we need is for someone to go and blow themselves up somewhere for us to be named a respectable religoin….sorry. That was distasteful. And it breaks on the the i’d really rather you didn’ts….
Surely it is a Freedom of Speech and a Freedom of Religion issue?
Surely Freedom of Religion means you are free not to believe and to express that non belief in an appropriate manner?
I for one would be more than happy to sign a Petition addressing the issue on those grounds.
it must be spinach based pasta
Yay first post.
By peaceful solutions, do you mean no lawsuits? If they are an officially recognized organization then I think we have a case.
I’ve no doubt that JT and Dr. Richter will prevail. It’s fairly appalling that Dean Stone thinks she can dictate religious freedom (or the lack thereof) at MSU!
The fans of the TV show Jericho sent pound after pound of peanuts to the executives of CBS until they caved in to bring Jericho back (although it is only coming back for a half-season)…
Are there any places where we can order spaghetti online to be delivered to the school’s administrative offices?
Now that I think about it, it doesn’t have to be cooked spaghetti… we can send boxes of uncooked spaghetti!
I suggest the usual email dog pile that usually shows the level of support for FSMism. I have been surprised by the success we have had with email campaigns here in the past. Usually instructors have staff emails, lets post is and start the pile!I suggest the usual email dog pile that usually shows the level of support for FSMism. I have been surprised by the success we have had with email campaigns here in the past. Usually instructors have staff emails, lets post is and start the pile!
Keep fighting the good fight guys! Happy holidays to everyone, pastafarians included.
Yet again: how about Pastafarian carolers in full pirate regalia singing in front of
Dr. Stone’s house? Even her shrivelled Christian soul would melt, and the newspapers would love it……
makes me sad to be an MSU alum
Just sent out.
Dr. Michael T. Nietzel:
I am offering to chip in for a fund, to sue as many as possible -including individuals- who are instrumental in denying this holiday display of The Flying Spaghetti Monster.
Reverently,
Fizzmick Pa Chee
How about calling the local Newspaper / TV News Station. “Discrimination as MSU”. Include some of the blogs to them, Especially with Dean Stone. Universities generally do not want bad press so maybe that is a peaceful solution.
This just shows how accustomed to getting preferential treatment christians are.
What an outrage! It’s a perfectly ressonable display & should be allowed to stay up. His Noodly one be praised! Gold?
Gold? I remember reading about MSU a while back. Didn’t pastafarians and spagnostics make up the second largest religious group on campus?
In any case, this is starting to become a blatant injustice. I’m not even sure it’s about rligion anymore, i believe that CoFSM is now viewed to be a massive joke. I think someione needs to show them how serious we are. Oh, and JT never replied to my email :(
Just stick the thing up. It’s not hurting anyone. Unless it sets fire to the place.
A bit rude, Ms Stone.
Nice decorations! Those are very creative!
-Avatar of Reason
That’s very pretty!
Petition, the display looks fairly small and as the Pastafarians are recognised as a student group, it shouldn’t be too difficult to collect a large number of signatures.
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As far as the admin is concerned, request specific reasons for the refusal of permission to set up the display, if there are good reasons, knowing them will make it possible to address them. If no reasons are forthcoming, or communication continues to be ignored, send a representative of the pastafarians in person to whoever is in charge of which displays are allowed and which aren’t, to ask for the reasons, on the basis that the group are assuming their communication to said official were lost, not just ignored.
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Now fingers crossed, will it post?
I think my post got lost, sorry if it shows up twice, just the main points in case it does:
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Start a petition, the pastafarians are a recognised group, they have the right to put up a display.
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If it hasn’t already been done, ask for specific reasons why the FSM display is not allowed.
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If no reasons are forthcoming, send a pastafarian to the official in charge of which displays are allowed, explain your concern that communications from the pastafarians don’t seem to be reaching him/her and ask (politely) if he/she could explain why the FSM display is not allowed.
Looks like the post was just delayed.
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Going through the students’ union could help too, although in my college the SU is purely for show with no real power, they could help with a petition or advise on who might be able to influence Dr. Stone to reconsider.
Commodore Angryy,
Ack! I’m sorry, I do always try to respond to e-mails. Please understand that I get so many (criticizing religion in this area will do that). Please e-mail me again so I can see who you are and pray I haven’t deleted it.
I’m sorry!
JT
If Old Grouch is right about that part of Missouri (perhaps JT could verify this?) a media campaign would be useless. The media is most likely very christian and so is their audience, meaning that playing a story about this would actually hurt their business. I do like the thought of an E-mail campaign (I’ll be sending one after my next couple of finals) and the caroling. If the caroling is done on private property, there’s not much that can be done (legally, but since when do fundies care about that?). A petition could hold some sway, but if the students are mostly christians, it may well fail.
Tid bits for everybody:
The university legal representative has informed us that he believes the university is within its legal rights. I’m no lawyer, but I can’t help but disagree looking at such cases as the Lynch and Allegheny County trials. Also, the ruling in Chabad of Southern Ohio & Congregation Lubavitch v. City of Cincinnati (2004) seems quite clear as well. Furthermore, it seems that similar cases are being won elsewhere in the country right now, so I’m not sure exactly how ingenuous he’s being. It could very well be that he, like Dr. Stone, expect to feed us a line of bullshit and have us go away - which may sadly be one of our only remaining option.
I’m holding out to see how effective this e-mail campaign will be. After that, I may just drop a line to the ACLU. We have already hinted at it to the Administration and they do not seem to care. What do you guys think?
Thank you again for all the help.
JT
I think it’s lovely. That FSM statue is way cuter than a menorah - I don’t see why it’s not up.
Does anyone have any figures of how many emails get sent on average when we all decide to get arsey about this type of issue? If not, don’t worry …. I’ve requested the info from Dr Stone.
Flying Spaghetti Monster LAWSUIT!
My Dear Dr. Stone,
You should know that I am offering to chip in for a fund, to sue as many as possible -including individuals (and I would hope there would be no financial support from the school as discrimination cannot be their policy)- who are instrumental in denying this holiday display of The Flying Spaghetti Monster.
Reverently,
Fizzmick Pa Chee
P.S., Dr. Richter’s hot.
I have the impression that you are overlooking something. This is not exactly a matter of freedom of religion or freedom of expression (or lack of) or even a matter of discrimination between religions.
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As the first reply by Dr Stone points out the Tree and the Menorah are secular symbols, not religious and therefore should not be compared with FSM religious symbols. I am not sure about the Menorah but a so-called “christmas tree” is certainly not a symbol of christianity (I even know of some xtian fundamentalists who refuse such trees as being pagan).
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So the solution is to invent some pastafarian-linked non-religious symbol of the Winter solstice holidays, which then should be accepted as other secular symbols of the same period.
.
Ramen
This was my contribution:
“Dear Dr. Stone,
I have come across the discussion about religious symbols on public display at your university, such as holiday tree and Menorah. Of course, these affairs are far from being my business, but I support equal rights in general by heart. The Christmas tree, as we call it here in Europe, is a pagan symbol adopted by early Christians, and by this, from a historical point of view, he represents not a “true” religious symbol. The Menorah, however, certainly does. Thus, I would kindly ask you to allow other religious groups to put their symbols on display at the same place, too.
I would like to kindly beg you to allow my fellow pastafarians at your institute to set up their holiday FSM symbol in the same way as other religions are allowed to do, especially since, as far as I can judge, the FSM artwork under discussion is at least as graceful as the tree!
Be touched by the FSM’s Noodly Appendages!”
Great looking decoration. Clearly belong there right next to the creche and the Menorrah. They would not do this with a Quanzai decoration, and they have no right to put a value judgement on the FSM decoration.
You know, if I raid my basement I could probably recreate this image of the Noodly One.
And as for the issue at hand, I agree that it would be easier to deal with once the specific reasons are known. I know, I pull that card on my parents all the time…but I never really get answers.
My post got lost too. I shall be mailing Ms Stone!!!
We should all send her FSM holiday cards. We have her email address.. FIRE AWAY!
Mine in enroute!
Jeff
“in his noodly image”
All tis serves to illustrate something. How could a one size heaven fit all. In a way the fundamentalists are right to say we would not fit in their concept of heaven. Their mistake is in believing that such a place could indeed be heaven for everyone-and being excluded from it would be interpreted as a punishment.
Does anyone seriously believe that even after death, they would buy into a pearly gate, beatuific vision, no sex, no food, not alcohol pure spirit, Jesus jamboree with people like Falwell, Robertson, and JPII as a really cool reward for a life well lived?
This is one of the areas where the Xtain vision falls apart at the seams. Mark Twain first noted this in one of his later writings. (In case anyone doesn’t know Twain was an atheist-a fact which was well hidden until several decades after his death) In it he talks about how obnoxious the christian vision of heaven with its constant singing of hymns would be. He really hit on something there. I’m amazed how little discussion there is in the popular culture about how absurd and banal is the so called reward being offered after we serve the xtain divinity.
I did my part and emailed the eminent doctors. Everyone else should follow suite and they will back down.
I recieved a reply from the University President claiming they offered to let the display stand. Text of my email and reply below:
To Whom It May Concern:
I am writing to express my worry upon reading of MSU’s disgraceful treatment of the Co The Flying Spagetti Monster. I feel that your attempts to block a display of our diety alongside several other holiday symbols reflects badly on your entire university. I was under the impression that federal law had already set the precedent for religious and secular freedom in our great country. If you had set out to project an image of close-minded intolerance, I can’t imagine a better way. Continuing your opposition to the display hurts only yourself and your institution. Please review your policy and hopefully this matter can be brought to an acceptable end for all.
Mr. _______: You have been misled, unless you were also informed that the University offered to put up the requested display in the student center, with other holiday displays, but that this group refused that offer because they said they did not want it there. If your contention is that the only way we can honor religious freedom is to put up displays in the exact location each student group might insist on, than I am afraid you will continue to find our policy disgraceful.
Mike Nietzel
I think a petition and mass emailing would work the best, at least for something faster, choke their email up with a ton of support, causing them a massive PITA, and the petition would show that there’s lots of support in the local student population.
I know why its not allowed up!
Its appendages are not noodly enough!
I’d go with the petition idea…as storm petrel suggested.
love the fine art taco photos. I say build one, and put it up anyway, then If they try to remove it, film them and then take down the other displays.
petitioning is a good idea before resorting to my extreme measures. Petitioning may also convert more into followers of Pastafarianism, and the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
Honestly, I think if he doesn’t have the time to write a short email explaining the reasons behind his actions then i say he doesn’t have time to disagree with it at all. Do it to it man.
Happy Holiday from the MSU Chapter. I made a video Holiday Card for everyone. Enjoy, and feel free to spread it around shamelessly like a prostitute with the clap
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xgFbcSn1zY
or www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xgFbcSn1zY
I like the ideas of email campaigns, petitions, ACLU and even lawsuits if it comes to that. Some have suggested contacting the local media. May I also add the school paper. And blog if the school has one (my university does). Get the word out about the blatant discrimination. RAmen.
Here’s the letter I sent to that Stone person.
—Who watches the watchers?
Who makes sure the checks equal up to the balances?
Who, if not you, decides what is acceptable to display and what isn’t?
If you allow one, then you must allow all.
Allowing a Christmas Tree/Holiday Tree and/or the Menorah and not allowing a visage of a deity; a deity that is the basis of a student organization, is, in one simple word, unacceptable.
What if “your” Christmas tree wasn’t allowed but the Menorah was?
Who would watch the watchers then?
Put aside your own bigotry and prejudices and allow the Pastafarians to display their deity, the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
Sent an email to Dr. Stone. Short and to the point. Not as much fun to write as the Polk County one, but I hope I got my point across nonetheless.
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“Dr. Stone,
I am writing in concern about your refusal to allow the MSU Pastafarians a holiday display with other religious displays. This is in violation of the spirit of not only the First Amendment, and the ideals of a university and the exchange of ideas. I hope you reconsider your position and allow this display. Thank you for your time.”
Maybe you can’t be a part of the offical display, and we can’t over come disbelief just yet, because it is easier to keep things the way they already are than to change them. But there might be another way to stand up. Lots of decorative fliers or window decorations (NOT VANDALISM) could really Pastafarianize the place and the management would be the ones that need to fight legal battles. It would show that we can be accepting of other peoples obsurd paranoias and power crazes, and still be true to our religion. It would be a shame to have that work on the noodle tree go to waste though. Keep fighting (peacefully and lawfully, of corse), and look at all your options, which are surely as numerous as His Noodly Appendages. Ramen.
I think we should all chip in for legal council, it would be a perfect way to spend my ChriFSMas bonus :)
Make it mobile and take it with you all over the place :) They can’t complain to that now can they? You are not putting it up anywhere, just keeping it safely with you :)) Plus a lot more people will see it that way!
In response to this:
“Mr. _______: You have been misled, unless you were also informed that the University offered to put up the requested display in the student center, with other holiday displays, but that this group refused that offer because they said they did not want it there. If your contention is that the only way we can honor religious freedom is to put up displays in the exact location each student group might insist on, than I am afraid you will continue to find our policy disgraceful.
Mike Nietzel”
The e-mail I got about this is present in my blog, but I’ll re-post it and my response:
From Dean Stone:
“I do not grant permission for student organizations to put up holiday displays in the Atrium of Strong Hall. I suggest that your organization talk to someone in Student Affairs about a display in the Plaster Student Union.
Dean Stone ”
My response:
“Dr. Stone,
The PSU would be a fall back option for me, as I feel our display belongs in the same location as other displays in the same category - regardless of who elects to put them up. Surely you can understand that from my vantage point it appears that other symbols (the Holiday Tree and the Menorah) are receiving preferential treatment to others, including my own. Surely you can make an exception to your policy in the interest of diversity on this campus?”
The offer to put it up in the PSU was made with about two days of finals left before the campus would be deserted (of which, I only had one more day of being in town), which is why we elected not to hang it in the PSU. It would have been superfluous, and after 10 days I would have had to remove it and I would have been out of town.
Ordinarily, I would have been happy to hang it in the meantime, while I continued to spar with Dean Stone.
The source of my frustration is that somebody (rumored to be a teacher) complained about the lack of diversity, at which point the tree was taken down for three days before being erected again with the Menorah, while our display was taken down and our requests summarily denied and petitions ignored.
What do you guys think? Is that sufficient?
JT
Ha! I sent her a ChiFSMas card!
@Red DutchPasta: I really like that idea. It’s almost like rubbing it in their faces.
Well. I’ve done my bit and sent a nice (or at least, nice when compared to my normal mood :D ) e-mail. Hopefully seeing enough non-americans sending their support for the Pastafarian display should help :).
I’d be worried if I was in her place and started getting mails from foreigners, hehe.
@Red DutchPasta: Hmm, Now i’ve got designs for sandwich boards flying through my head…
Actually JT, it was a student who complained.
Ironic, isn’t it?
~Mark (or Dr. Richter if you want to annoy me)
and to ‘cabin girl’ thanks, your comment made my day!
I agree with Red Dutchpasta! It is unfortunate that we may not be able to erect the dispaly along side the other arrangements, but something about flaunting it around campus seems almost a bitter sweet victory to me. May His Noodly Appendage guide your way!!
Ramen.
Just sent. Again thanks for the e-mail info.
Dr. Nietzel and Dr. Stone,
This is about your providing “space” for the Flying Spaghetti Monster holiday display.
In regard to your claim that this location satisfies some legal requirement, I submit to you that even if there was limited space, notice should be given as to available space with all interested parties being given an equal amount of space with the “same prominence”.
Is it O.K. to have to sit in the back of the bus? This is an obviously “inferior location” meant to demean a religion that you are not comfortable with.
I say let the lawsuits proceed! Again I would hope that when you are personally sued that no University funds would be provided for your defense or judgements because discrimination cannot be their policy
Reverently,
Fizzmick PaChee
@Momi Pink Shoes
“ I don’t see why it’s not up.”
Viagra shortage?
@JT Eberhard
If they are acting like they don’t care about the ACLU getting involved they are bluffing. That would get some sort of national press, and not much of it could be positive. Please don’t give up! Pastafarians shouldn’t back out of a fight like this. If you need help (other then a few E-mails from me to them) post it on here. Also, have you posted the addresses of ALL of the administrators involved? Maybe there is a sight with their addresses? If we can bug more than a few of the hardcore people we have a better shot at this.
On another note, it might be a bit late for Holiday, but don’t miss Pastover, Friday, or other holidays, make a stink about it each time. Just make sure you don’t do anything against policy so they can disband the group.
@Perna de Pau
I don’t see how the can classify those things as not religious affiliated. It’s not a slam dunk for them in court. Even if it was, there’s nothing in the Gospel about statues or any of that, so this could easily be argued as being a secular symbol.
@Red DutchPasta Wench
A portable statue? Brilliant!
this is the e-mail i might send her i’d like some feedback first
_____________
why do you refuse to let JT display an Flying Spaghetti Monster decoration? Do you have something against our religion? if you think we are a “fake” religion, you are wrong. Are you a justice of the supreme court? do you have the authority to decide what religions are credible and what aren’t? Have you considered displaying items of other religions at all? is there a Buddha on display, or a Tri-Horn of Odin for the Norse Pagans? You work for the state and have no authority to say what religions can and cannot be displayed
@JT and Mark Richter
Front row seats right next to the beer volcanoes and the stripper factory dressing rooms for JT & Mark.
RAmen
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@Red Dutch
Great idea Red. Good way of drawing attention to the story of the religious discrimination too…when people ask about it.
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@Aesi Dec 18th, 2007 at 9:56 pm
“Hopefully seeing enough non-americans sending their support for the Pastafarian display should help :).”
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Will send one from a concerned Australian Pastafarian!
Aesi Dec 18th, 2007 at 9:58 pm
“Now i’ve got designs for sandwich boards flying through my head…”
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Ouch! :p
Oops, appears I need to retract my earlier statement. It was neither a student or faculty member who complained…merely a series of events (about inclusiveness, etc.) with a lack of communication resulting in the present mess.
Ah, what fun,
~Mark
You could make a Grinch style ChriFSMas childrens book featuring Dean Stone, who steals all the ChriFSMas trees from the good little Pastafarians to prevent the drunken debauchery on ChriFSMas day.
Another thing would be to complain about the displays that are up… if that’s how they’re gonna fight.
@Mark–I hope you read this. Thank you for fighting the good fight, and sticking up for the little guy/pasta dish. It’s cool to see someone in some sort of position of authority doing something like that, rather than just cowtowing to the powers-that-be. May you be further blessed by his noodly appendage. RAmen.
rmw: Thanks, I appreciate it. ~Mark
Just sent this:
Dr. Nietzel and Dr. Stone,
I’m writing you as a concerned citizen about the restrictions placed on the Pastafarian holiday decoration MSU. Although I applaud the decision to allow it to be displayed in public, I’m worried about the precedent of forcing it to be placed away from the other decorations.
If you allow - or in this case, cause - discrimination against a group that you find personally objectionable, then you’re sending a very bad message to the students at your university. The Pastafarians have the same rights as any other group, regardless of the popularity of their beliefs.
I respectfully request that you allow the decoration to be displayed with all the others.
Thank you for your time,
Do we have any idea how many e-mails have been sent?
Indeed, I too have noticed such discrimination. Go ChriFSMas!
@Ephriam A.
I like the Grinch idea. It certainly gets the point across and avoids any defamation suits because it’s literature.
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I am working on a similar idea using Dante’s Divine Comedy. Sadly I am a horrible writer and only have “Inferno” done. :(
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@Mark (of the Dr. variety)
R’Amen dude, R’Amen.
Oh, to answer the question about putting the display in another building, I say only if a fair drawing is conducted where all groups who want to have displays have equal chances of getting the more desirable locations.
Okay, here is wat I sent to the closed-minded adminstreatos at MSU:
Please allow space along side the other religious displays for the Pastafarian version of Yuletide Celebration. As I write, I am consuming my dinner of Alfredo sauce with whole wheat pasta, in His name. Pastafarianism is the ONLY religion I know of based in scientific fact, simultaneously appealing to the human sense that there is something bigger than humanity turning the wheels of the universe.
If we cannot count on America’s university administrators to be nonjudgmental of the panoply of beliefs, then we may as well live in communist China. I hope you are more more sensitive to the beliefs of the masses than that.
Thank you very much, Andrew D Pohlman, RN.
So, what’s up? Any new developments at MSU?
Well, i’m still waiting for a reply here and if I havn’t recieved one by tonight i’ll send off another e-mail. I think Dr. Stone is one of those “ignore the problem and it goes away” type people.
Don’t lose the chance to display in the other building. It’s a good chance to spread our message, and we can use it to our advantage! Because we don’t have any competition in the other building, we can make an even bigger super awesome display! We can make such a statement and such a great impression among the students that NEXT year the administration will have no choice to admit us. Keep fighting for equality, but dont risk this great opportunity.
bombadil writes in part, asking for feedback;
Are you a Justice of the Supreme Court?
I would hate to even float the notion that they could rule on what is or is not a religion. The adherents of an organization should have that right reserved. Also at a time of erecting disparate religious displays, all religious viewpoints should have an equal opportunity.
Sincerely,
Fizzmick PaChee
Keep up the good work. You might be interested in an e-mail I just sent to the MSU addys mentioned:
Gentlemen,
I’m appalled at your insensitivity and lack of respect for the religious feelings of all denominations.
I beg you; I urge you, to end this un-American and discriminatory attitude that offends not only freedom of religion but the very principles of equal rights under the law upon which America was founded.
I’m sure America’s founding fathers would join me to the last in expecting you to revise your biased and prejudiced attitude and to respect other human beings religious beliefs as much as you would expect your own to be respected.
I would like to draw your attention to the fact that this religious intolerance puts the administration of the Missouri State University much morally closer to the muslim Taliban than you would like to be. Gentlemen, that’s not good company.
So, in order to correct this error that offends the religious sensitivity of all, please allow the Missouri State University Pastafarians to place our display together with all the other religious displays in a show of tolerance and respect for the religious freedoms of others as one has every right to expect from such a prestigious institution as the one you have the privilege of being part of.
You can count on the blessings of the Flying Spaghetti Monster and be sure that you and your loved ones will always be in our prayers while we eat our noodles.
Gentlemen, I commend you to His Noodly Appendage and may all our tables never lack our Holy Spaghetti and Meatballs.
Ramen.
Thank you, very much.
Jorge Banner
Buenos Aires
ARGENTINA
lorenestone@missouristate.edu; President@missouristate.edu;
sean@saturday-night-live.com;lorne@lornemichaels.com
Sean, you’re going to love this.
http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=40539144&blogID=337042809
Dr. Stone(wall) und Herr Dr. Neat Sell
My, my, my,
You folks just crack me up. I am so sorry I have missed the fun of watching this “drama” unfold at your proud institution.
I came to your story via the Washington Post. Wow, I am so impressed by the effort you expend on behalf of the Constitutional Freedoms of our nation. Moreover, your staunch defense of “fair and equal” is to be applauded (I actually cried - just thought I’d throw that i - what with everyone crying these days). Indeed, your courage in the face of the FSM will be relived and retold until ……well until we all get a good laugh on SNL.
Fight On Proud MSU.
Deliver us from the evil FSM
Can’t wait to send my grandsons to MSU - no the real one.
http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=40539144&blogID=337042809
Please pass along my regards and support to JT.
I wasn’t up to joining in order to post on his site.
what is it because we don’t have a pretty little building with a steeple on it? is that why we can’t put up decorations?
Fact: only 0.22% of the world’s population is Jewish, while atheism claims a significantly greater number, at 6%. Why a Menorah, directed towards one of the world’s least-believed certified religions, would be allowed, while a Pastafarian display would be denied, makes no sense. The only explanation that we can logically come to is that MSU is trying to build a theocracy where they don’t have to tolerate religions they think are foolish. Also, it might be because we don’t have a pretty little building with a nice steeple.
Go’ramn it! Turn yer ship upside down if ye want a bloody buildin’ with a steeple!
Oh, you’ve got a building with a steeple? So friggen what? We’ve got lots of heavily armed upside-down floating buildings with steeples!
It is a little late, but I chimed in as well…
Dear Dr. Stone,
I feel that if you allow one group to receive preferential treatment at the expense of the others, it does not reflect well upon the presumed ideas of equality and fairness that should be present in a university. I am speaking about the decision to deny the Pastafarian group at your university the right to erect a holiday display while permitting the displays of both the Christian and Jewish religions.
Now, while I personally believe all religion to be equally foolish, I cannot fathom how you have decided that the Pastafarians are less deserving of respect and consideration than anyone else. I ask you to consider how you may have reacted had a Moslem student organization requested to construct a holiday display. Would you have been so cavalier in your dismissals of their request?
It cannot be that the Pastafarian symbols are ‘religious’, because the christmas tree is not a religious symbol. As I’m sure you well know, it was an ancient pagan symbol that was adopted by early Christians in an attempt to make their new religion more compatible with the ‘old ways’. So, here you have a religious (Jewish) and secular (pseudo-Christian) symbol arranged side by side - on what basis do you reject the Pastafarians their opportunity to display their own symbol of belief next to all the others?
If I am not mistaken, your university is the recipient of public funds. As such, I do not feel that you have any right to discriminate against any recognized student group whether or not you personally share any or their views or beliefs. Clearly, your refusal to allow this student group to construct a tasteful holiday display springs from your own persona biases. This sort of blatant favoritism has no place at an institution that presumes to be devoted to developing open and inquiring minds.
I urge you to reconsider your tenuous and indefensible position, and to demonstrate the values upon which our university system is founded. Equality, fairness, justice do not go hand in hand with favoritism and disregard for other points of view. Yes, I am aware that an offer has been made to move the Pastafarian decorations to another location…and again I ask: Would you have asked a Moslem or Coptic Christian or Hindu student organization to sequester their symbols?
I suspect not, and so it seems that the entire basis for this decision is firmly rooted in prejudice. I look forward to being proven wrong.
forget having steeples, weve got pirates, pirates automatically win against churches its a scientific fact, so says me lord of things i feel like being lord of
Get the Pinjas to crush them [A cross between Pirates and Ninjas]
Zekk XX
I’m looking forward to Easter, to see if Dean Stone continues to show discrimination in allowing only certain religious displays. I hope JT and the others at MSU will have a beautiful Pastafarian display ready! Since Easter will be only 3 days after the vernal equinox, a spring celebration will surely be in order!
This really ticks me off. I want to email them both, but I don’t want to make any enemies there before I actually get accepted. I hope this gets resolved before I apply…
If you make an e-mail with Earthlink (I’ve had it for a very long time and don’t remember if they charge, but you can check), they give you five free aliases, all that you can anonymously send e-mail from and you will receive in your normal inbox. It’s a nice tool to have when you want to send people like this e-mail.
*receive replies in your normal inbox
I recently found that FSM is huge at my college, Spokane Community College, with students and faculty alilke. Then I started noticing that it’s not just limited to the college. Spokane loves FSM!!! go pastafarians!!!
So, O Holy Henderson, what’s the deal? Why have you forsaken us? I got all emotional about this injustice, and you haven’t updated us in two months! Is there to be no satisfaction for all of us fighting this battle vicariously?? I know the Noodly One is out there watching over us, but sometimes it’s hard to keep the faith…(sniff……)
Thought you might like to read my letter
Dear Sir
I come from South Africa, a diverse and exciting blend of cultures, languages and races. Our history is dark, one of violence and segregation. Through persistance and an aim to right the wrongs, great men and women changed the future of my country. We now tolerate all peoples as we have come to realise that everyone is equal to life, choice, speech and religion - to name a few. Please will you accept my brothers and sisters who follow the Flying Spaghetti Monster’s wise teachings at your institute. We as a church have struggled in the past and I fear that the negative way our situation is being handled and portrayed may cause riffs in our society. My brothers and sisters have been very accomodating to the other students and their beliefs- don’t we need that kind of treatment too?
May Noodley appendage guild and protect you
Concerned Pastafarian
Captian Jason of HNS (His Noodlyness’ Ship) Cook With a Little Oil and Salt
P.S., JT’s blog doesn’t have an update either. (sigh)
They allow a Christian display but nto a Pastafarian one?
That’s illegal, take the infidels to the supreme court that they may order the legal equivalenccy of a damn good stoning!
Hi,
Does anyone know if the teacher or the student got a lawyer and took this issue to court? I would be willing to find legal counsel and even help fund it. This is simply a matter showing that we are serious. People like Dean Stone are intolerant and do not understand letters, even letters that explain what she is doing is illegal, so I say we stop telling her we’re serious and start showing her we’re serious.