Who’s doing the demonizing? I suppose you live south of the 49th, but Athiests who refrain from thrusting an agenda on others (and yes, lots of religious folks do do that) do not get very much flack here. Nor do Sihks, Buddhists or Unitarians. These sects do not, and this is where it might be instructional to your group to sit up and pay attention, construct websites with the single clear purpose being to discredit spiritual people. You are disrespectful and frankly, not too evolved. The rest of the world is striving to move toward to-ler-ance and you’d be well advised to follow suit. I don’t wear a turban, carry a hymn book, wear a cross, a ceremonial sword, I don’t wear blessed underwear or confer with tree goods but I do know that we’d all be better off saying, “I agree to disagree” and cease and desist with campaigns to uncover someone else’s faith as a sham. I think defamation is the word you’re looking for, as opposed to demonisation, unless whereever you’re from really IS the way it’s depicted in South Park (I thought it was a parody!) no one is “DEMONISING” intellectual curiousity,…that’s called ’science’.
Your logic is not up to snuff. So, if this is not in the name of humour, it’s in the name of logic. Excuse me while I go and ponder that disconnect. There are many, many illogical things that happen in the world with amazing regularity. Does that necessitate a campaign to discredit it? One example, so many people gorge on fastfood that obesity is an epidemic. —> Therefore we should start a campaign to uncover their stupidity and shame them into more informed behaviour while acting as laugh material for the rest of us non-fatties. (the ones who know “the truth” about food)
Have you ever heard of relativism? Do you know that the chances are very, very good that Jesus, the Bhudda (arguably several incarnations) and Muhhomed (sp?) all walked the earth?
-Meichan
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Us humans have undergone thousands of years to construct a system of logic, reasoning and scientific inquiry, and there are still people in the way, people who are dishonest and want us to go back to medieval times, people who think that science is a load of codswallop,
I can tolerate them thinking that, but as soon as they go on and try and get their version of reality taught in SCIENCE lessons, and try and limit women’s rights for certain medical procedures, then it becomes a problem.
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The FSM was created to show the flaw in putting a lie into the wrong place in the education system, if you put one lie, then you have to give all the versions.
I.e, if you teach that a giant sky-daddy created the universe, then you have to teach that aliens created the universe, and that our earth is flat and resides on the back of a tortoise.
If you let one lie into a science lesson, why not include all the other infinite lies humans can come up with?
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Or maybe we should just teach SCIENCE in a SCIENCE lesson, that would seem logical, no?
Of course, since extremists and moderates don’t like the amount of people who believe in god decreasing, they don’t like their faith diminishing, since they think that their faith is weak, they have to go to new lengths to defend it and shove it down young kids’ throats.
They need to indoctrinate kids with Creationism (Cretinism, really), or else creationism would most probably die out.
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I am not saying we should not teach what other people believe at all, I think lies and ‘alternate theories’ and ‘different interpretations’ of the universe should still be taught in one area:
Religious Studies (which incidentally, should include every single belief relating to religion/non religion/ agnosticism etc :D).
Creationism is not science, I could go through all the arguments why it isn’t, but I will only list one:
> Creationism is not falsifiable, thus it cannot be regarded as a scientific theory or hypothesis.
Hope you enjoyed this post.
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shouldn’t that be “conifer with trees”?
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@ rmw
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“:-) Oh, and where did “Tim the Enchanter” come from? Just curious.”
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ADHD my friend, ADHD.
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“…and this is where it might be instructional to your group to sit up and pay attention, construct websites with the single clear purpose being to discredit spiritual people.”
Erm… Are you aware that there are Christian websites with the clear purpose of trying to discredit scientific understanding? Not just evolution but ALL forms of science that contradict (the already self contradicting) bible.
Not only this, but they are trying to force these ludicrously unfounded views into the science class, with the clear goal of replacing science with religious clap trap. These people demonise atheists, secularists, and scientists!
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Yes we should all show tolerance. But we shouldn’t show tolerance to the intolerant. Should we tolerate the fascist ideals that lead to genocide in the 1940’s? According to you we should.
I can only conclude you are actually religious and/or stupid.
Sorry if that seems intolerant but it is clearly true, I won’t shy from the facts.
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“Your logic is not up to snuff” – well I don’t think it logical to stick stuff up your nose anyway. If you’re trying to say we don’t have logic; then I have my proof you’re an idiot and haven’t read the arguments on this site.
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“…many illogical things that happen in the world with amazing regularity. Does that necessitate a campaign to discredit it? One example, so many people gorge on fastfood that obesity is an epidemic. —> Therefore we should start a campaign to uncover their stupidity and shame them into more informed behaviour while acting as laugh material for the rest of us non-fatties.”
Actually we do! That’s why governments fund advertising campaigns and committees to combat obesity. More proof that you really haven’t got a clue!
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“Do you know that the chances are very, very good that Jesus, the Bhudda (arguably several incarnations) and Muhhomed (sp?) all walked the earth?”
But no proof that any of them were divine in any way, let alone that one was the son of a fictional god!
You are a moron!
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Toleration is not the opposite of intolerance but the counterfeit of it. Both are despotisms: the one assumes to itself the right of withholding liberty of conscience, the other of granting it.
Thomas Paine
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Blah blah blah. No one cares “Meichan”.
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Buddha has been documented in history. I can’t say about Mohammed, because quite frankly I don’t care enough to look. Jesus has not. He was never recorded anywhere…
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We are agreeing to disagree – we’re just having more fun than you while doing it.
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If anyone has read the links to some of these fundamentalist groups like American Taliban, the reason why some of the people on this site are striking back is clear. It is a certain segment of religion that has declared a “culture war” on all the rest of us. Their public pronouncements come as unprovoked attacks and routinely make the headlines. Their sites discuss a hostile take over of the public school system, done for the purpose of inculcating everone’s children, particularly those who disagree with their world view, in the tenets of their religion. Some of them even discuss taking the right to vote away from anyone who’s not a churchgoer. All we are doing is turning over the rock and shining the light on what’s underneath it. If that looks like intolerance to you, and the public utterances of Falwell, Dobson, Kennedy, Coulter, and Robertson do not, then it says something about your mindset.
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Hey.. just be happy…I think the less you care about that religion shit, the happier you are…Look at me=) I am always smiling =)
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why is this SO big????
seriously though, we’re not ridiculing religious people. all we’re doing is protesting that creationism is being taught in some schools. we have no problem with religion, just that kids in public, non christian schools are taught it, especially because they are only taught one religion’s theories.
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@rmw Dec 9th, 2007 at 10:20 pm
“I like the arguments that, in a general sense, state that ID does not only a disservice to science, but to faith as well.”
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Seems many others agree :)
I came across one site that has a petition with over 11,000 signatures of theists against ID :)
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The Clergy Letter Project: An Open Letter Concerning Religion and Science
http://www.butler.edu/clergyproject/religion_science_collaboration.htm
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Another great article:
Some Objections to Intelligent Design
“This page contains some of my objections to the theory of intelligent design (ID for short). My objections are primarily theological, since I am not a biologist.” [Carl Drews]
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http://www.theistic-evolution.com/design.html
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I think the cream of evidence against ID comes from Francis Collins, the director of the Human Genome Project. Talk Reason (another great anti-Id site) has a review of Collins’s book, The Language of God.
I highly recommend reading that review. Collins absolutely nails it! No one can argue against the number of levels of DNA evidence he presents. :))
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Talk Reason: Review of Francis Collins (2006) The language of God
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http://www.talkreason.org/articles/Theistic.cfm
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Discovery Institute was so hoping to rope all flavours of theists in with ID…..oh bugger! (:))
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@my post
“No one can argue against the number of levels of DNA evidence he presents. :))”
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However in my experience, they will simply ignore it and change the subject (usually to fossils again :p) or run away
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I don’t think you understand what Meichan meant my fellow pastafarians. You see when he says the Buddha, Jesus (peace be upon him), and the prophet Muhammud (peace be upon him), walked the earth. He doesn’t just mean, setting foot on earth, he’s talking about “WALK THE EARTH” like Cain in Kung Fu, and like that Bad MotherFucker Jules (peace be upon him) from Pulp Fiction planned on doing (played by Samuel Jackson, peace be upon him). You need to understand the subtle difference.
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Personally, I think that there are some types of claptrap in the world which are so morally deleterious and potentially dangerous, both psychologically and physically, that they should not be tolerated.
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Meichan, you talk of tolerance. Should we tolerate people teaching religion (i.e. opinion) as science? I think not. Should we tolerate people being licensed as doctors (or worse, teaching doctors) who have no training? [insert priest / scientist / science as you wish here]
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By all means, teach Intelligent Design. Teach it in a religion class (comparative religion, that is), but let’s not tolerate fools who would try to teach it as science. And certainly not tolerate religious biggots who would try and turn the world into a theocracy.
FS
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Who said anyone is trying to necessarily trying to discredit? Wasn’t the majority of this started by people discrediting our religion?
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Im sorry, but after reading your post i grew so confused i had to read it AGAIN. I then found that you are complaining about athiests “thrusting” their opinion/beliefs upon you, first of all you are not forced to look at this website, YOU chose to. Secondly you said you were not a “gung-ho” man of religion, I then asked myself why a conservative person like yourself would be posting your opinion and therefore beliefs on a ATHIEST website, hang on that means you are a “gung-ho” religionist, OMNEG (oh my non-existent god) you are CONTRADICTING YOURSELF!!!!!
Ps-short posts make you semm less like an idiot, try it when you next force your beliefs upon me.
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@roger the cabin boy Dec 9th, 2007 at 3:05 pm
“wtf why is everything so big?
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Hi roger good to hear from you again after so long. Hope you’ve been keeping your cutlass and dirk sharp ;)
Big? Probably just another Matrix adjustment.
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“There are many, many illogical things that happen in the world with amazing regularity. Does that necessitate a campaign to discredit it?”
Er.. the world or the illogic. Illogic is kind of already discredited, isn’t it? And how can one discredit the world?
“so many people gorge on fastfood that obesity is an epidemic. —> Therefore we should start a campaign to uncover their stupidity and shame them into more informed behaviour”
A bit aggressive but yes, obese peole should be told to refrain from gorging on fast food and then they won’t be obese anymore. Doctors, I believe, support this view.
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Speaking as a failed indoctrinee of the catholic faith, I encourage everyone (especially the idiot who wrot e the initial hate mail) to read the book “The God Delusion” by Richard Dawkins. I’m sure there are other books, but this is the one I have read. He does a pretty good job of discrediting all religion (although I’m sure he gets the FSM joke, Aar!). This world would be far better off without religion. We as the human race have come far enough (yes evolved enough, most of us anyway) that we can shed these mystical falsehoods called religion for the real truth. There is no need to “believe” or have “faith” in anything. Religion in my opinion is nothing more than a haven for the ignorant people of the world who don’t want to understand the universe for what it is, a great big game of chance. They walk around saying, “I don’t understand that, therefore God did it.” You lazy bastards, get off your fat duff and learn how something works! I have studied statistics and I understand the probability of anything happening given enough time. I had a physics professor in college who assigned his graduate students to calculate the probability that a person standing next to a wall would spontaneously flash out of existence and then flash back into existence on the other side of the wall fully assembled as they were before. Beleive it or not, the answer is NOT zero, but don’t hold your breath waiting for it to happen either. In conclusion, there is no God, save the FSM, no matter what God you “believe” in. How’s that for intolerance?
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“Do you know that the chances are very, very good that Jesus, the Bhudda (arguably several incarnations) and Muhhomed (sp?) all walked the earth?”
Maybe, but the chances that they actually all did walk into a bar together seem remote at best.
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Hey, I just went fishing with Jesus last week. Does the fact that here in Wisconsin everyone can walk on water in the winter mean I should be awed by the fact that Jesus Ramierez pulled a fish from a hole in da Ice donchaknow. (Has anyone ever noticed the similaritys between fish bait and the great noodly one? His pastaness always provides.)
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Who’s doing the demonizing?
You apparently, if ad hominem comments count.
If you want to be tolerated, respect my opinions.
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“One example, so many people gorge on fastfood that obesity is an epidemic. —> Therefore we should start a campaign to uncover their stupidity and shame them into more informed behaviour while acting as laugh material for the rest of us non-fatties. (the ones who know “the truth” about food)”
Actually, I would be more inclined to mock (or otherwise oppose) fast food and its advocates, if it were forced (literally) down the throats of students. Be careful to make your analogies accurate…
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this man does not represent all canadians!
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