The Ledger reports that the majority of Polk County, Florida, School Board members support teaching Intelligent Design in addition to evolution in public schools.
It’s unclear if they’re prepared to change the definition of science. Some people are concerned that a supernatural theory will not mesh with the study of the natural world.
Board member Kay Fields said last week she wants intelligent design, which is promoted by some Christian groups, taught in science classes in addition to evolution.
“If it ever comes to the board for a vote, I will vote against the teaching of evolution as part of the science curriculum,” Lofton said. “If (evolution) is taught, I would want to balance it with the fact that we may live in a universe created by a supreme being as well.”
The board’s majority opinion is at odds with many in Florida’s scientific community who strongly support the new, more rigorous science standards, and say intelligent design lacks scientific credibility.
Perhaps Florida’s scientific community has not realized the type of genius arguments they’re up against:
“My tendency would be to have both sides shared with students since neither side can be proven,” [School Board Member] Tim Harris said.
“I don’t have a conflict with intelligent design versus evolution,” [School Board Member] Sellers said. “The two go together.”
“It crosses the line with people who are Christians,” [School Board Member] Lofton said. “Evolution is offensive to a lot of people.”
Pastafarians are concerned that the Polk County School Board is endorsing Intelligent Design, but ignoring our theory, even though it is widely endorsed by the scientific community.
I will wager that the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster can produce more academic endorsements for our theory than Intelligent Design proponents can for theirs.
My guess is that the Polk County School Board is just unaware of Pastafarianism. As a public service, I propose that we contact them, and let them know that there are other supernatural theories just as valid as Intelligent Design, primarily ours.
Contact info:
Those in favor of Intelligent Design:
Kay Fields (District 5)
Kay.Fields@polk-fl.net
863-802-5483
Tim Harris (District 7)
Tim.Harris@polk-fl.net
863-808-0005
Margaret Lofton (District 6, Chairman)
Margaret.Lofton@polk-fl.net
863-294-9076
Hazel Sellers (District 3)
Hazel.Sellers@polk-fl.net
863-533-7714
Lori Cunningham (District 2, Vice-Chairman) – undecided
Lori.Cunningham@polk-fl.net
863-512-1656
Those not in favor of Intelligent Design:
Frank O’Reilly (District 1)
Frank.Oreilly@polk-fl.net
863-647-1390
Brenda Reddout (District 4)
Brenda.Reddout@polk-fl.net
863-324-0127
You can use this link to email all 7 School board members.
Please be respectful – remember we are not criticizing their beliefs, merely pointing out that there is another, just as legitimate, theory that should be included into the curriculum. Please leave a comment and tell us about your conversations with the School Board. Thank you!
The Ledger article can be found here.
*update* 12/11/07 – Their local newspaper published a story about our campaign here.
Makes me I feel like I’m on a merry-go-round that just won’t stop. Will be having nightmares soon!
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“I will wager that the Church of FSM can produce more academic endorsements for our theory than Intelligent Design proponents can for theirs.”
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I for one wouldn’t accept that bet bobby (:))
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Why is that there are things that can’t be taught because they might be “offensive” to “some people”? I’m sorry, but this is absolutely ridiculous. The First Amendment in the US has evolved to not only keep the state out of the church(es), but to keep the church(es) out of the state as well. This is just beyond belief…and I’m sorry Ms. Sellers, but evolution and ID do not go together. If you would like to see ID taught in schools, then perhaps you and the rest of the Polk County School Board should consider instituting a religion/philosphy class for students. But keep ID out of the science classroom!! (I have strong feelings on this, as I had a science teacher in high school, who, though a very nice woman, felt it was necessary to take it upon herself to teach us why evolution is wrong.)
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I’m not too worried about this one. If they decided to mandate ID in curricula the Dover verdict would serve as a fresh and very strong precedent. However, it is a bit depressing that, despite the Dover verdict, christians won’t learn. What will it take for these lunatics to wise up?
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Awesome, now the zealots show up near where I leave. I think I’m going to have to bring them some pamplets (dressed in pirate regalia of course) about the FSM the next time I decide to head towards Orlando/St. Cloud.
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@DPG–I do agree the Dover case is some pretty strong ammo against teaching ID in the science classroom. And this is a possible change in the *state* law, not just the school district itself. Like the article said, if they don’t like this possible change in more rigorous science curriculum, they’ll have to fight it in court. Still, it’s aggravating that there are still so many people who feel the desire to mix science and religion.
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“Evolution is offensive to a lot of people.”
Then let’s stop teaching the Holocaust in history. It’s uncomfortable and offensive to some people. While we’re at it, let’s stop teaching in general. We might expose people accidentally to topics they find offensive. Let’s drop education and learning and go back to hunting and gathering.
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I still see no one has confonted these board members yet, just mabye, if we all tell them about the FSM, they might just split the class into 3 sections. ID, FSM and logical conjecture based on overwhelming observable evidence.
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Intelligent designer are merely the evolved version of the primitive creationism(es).
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“I would want to balance it with the fact that we may live in a universe created by a supreme being as well.”
Sounds like she’s open to FSMism being taught right alongside the other two isms.
~oïo~ FSM
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I feel that this board is offensive towards me. Now what?
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hunting is offensive to vegetarians. lets just gather stuff, packrats FTW
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Do we have the phone numbers for Mr. O’Reilly and Ms. Reddout? They might be interested in arguing our point that FSMism and the views on creation of religions other than Christianity be taught.
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I’m putting this in somewhat childish terms, but there is evidence all around us that we can see and touch (and smell and taste, if we’re so inlcined) that supports the scientific theory of evolution. Fossils, fruit flies, bugs in amber, peas, etc, etc, etc. We can all see this evidence if we look. Evolution is a fact.
Why is it that so many humans would choose to believe in a god or gods that can never be seen and are never heard, to the exclusion of scientific evidence supporting other ideas? Answer: because a lot of people are lazy, ignorant, irrational, and/or insane. There is no reliably recorded instance in which a deity has publicly proclaimed its presence in a booming voice, are has gone strolling down a street for everyone to see. Perhaps “the lord works in mysterious ways”, but I don’t. If god doesn’t have the decency to present itself to me objectively in all its anthropomorphic glory, then I have no reason to believe it exists. This also applies to unicorns, rational fundamentalists, and 40 foot dildos.
And by the way, there is a strong distinction between theories regarding the origin of life and evolution. Evolution is a fact (have I mentioned that?)
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While we introduce ID, why not bring in other less-than-scientific theories. We could spend tax-payers’ dollars on having our kids learn Astrology as required curiculum. Or Ether theory. Or whatever. After all, those have just as much “science” behind them as ID.
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Here’s an interesting tid bit published in WIKIPEDIA under the intelligent design entry.
Political appointees at NASA have prohibited their scientists from publicly discussing the any data which is explained by the age of the universe because it would contradict the biblical version of the universe’s age.
Further, government climatologists are forbidden from discussing their data regarding global warming because it may reference data tens or hundred’s of thousands of years old.
Don;t you feel relieved we have an evangelical christian in the white house.
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I can only imagine this is going to end up like Roe V. Wade where it will ultimately end up in the hands of APPOINTED Supreme court judges. The question is whether or not the appointer is smart enough to to nominate those who recognize the danger of blending religion and state affairs. FSM help us all!!
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I just sent them an email, voicing my opinions. I sure do hope that they read it!
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Obviously very few people in Polk County watch “NOVA”, otherwise they wouldn’t be blindly setting themselves up for complete, total public embarrassment and humiliation. They are taking up the mantle from the Kansas School Board of Laughing Stock Of America. Ironic, isn’t it, how those supposedly in charge of education have such panache for learning nothing…
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This school board should be congratulated for taking up the ID banner, and championing the right of their students to be exposed to competing viewpoints. Vive le Difference! How else can this commitment to fearless educational values be implemented?
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1. All classroom instruction should be bi-lingual, so that students can be equally exposed to both English and Spanish, free to make up their own minds as which they believe is most correct for completing assignments and use in their adult lives.
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2. Science teachers will “teach the controversy” between Alchemy and Chemistry, giving equal time to both in Chemistry units. Chemistry is merely the secular offshoot of Alchemy, which enjoyed a long and respected tenure in European history. Many notable and pious men were alchemists, which is good enough for me. In order to Leave No Florida Child Behind, students will be exposed to the periodic table of elements, but advised that it is by no means complete, and therefore, of dubious value. They will also be required to transform lead into gold for their final exam, and provided with 17th century translations of medieval occult texts as transmutation “bibles”.
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3. Music students will no longer be constrained to learn “music theory”. Since Western classical music is offensive to some, each student will have the option to construct an independent study which best conforms to his or her existing taste. Southern US composers such as Toby Keith and Trick Daddy will be given equal consideration with French elitists such as Claude Debussy or Joseph-Maurice Ravel.
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4. Math students will no longer be limited to “theories” they may find offensive, such as “Algebra” (developed by Muslims!), “Game Theory” (why are they playing games in school?), “Homology Theory” (keep our kids safe from these perverts!), “Proof Theory” (can they prove it or is it just a theory? Liberals are so stupid!).
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You know intelligent design is just the beginning. Everyone needs to realize that all scientific theories are “only theories”. Don’t we also need a theory of intelligent electromagnetism and intelligent gravity?
For EM isn’t it just as likely that AC current coming out of a generator is a result of FSM’s wrapping the armature of the dynamo shaft in his noodly appendage and imparting spin to it the same way you or I would impart spin to a yoyo.
Also since electromagnetism is only as theory, perhaps one of the Xtain fundamentalist proponents of “Intelligent Electromagnetism” will have no problem french kissing a 220v socket. Waddya think?
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I just wanna know. When are we gonna appoint Dr Zaius as Presidential science advisor?
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Intelligent design is pseudoscientific way to say “God did it”. Its like calling water Dihydrogen monoxide.
Well, I propose we change from ” The flying Spaghetti monster did it” From noddly design. Or Pasta method. Or something like that. Let them know they have competition. Oh, and one more thing. These guys actually call Inteligent design a scientific theory? WTF! You can’t read science in the bible!
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What really gets me is that, without the the science developed in the past few decades, most of the modern day luxeries that allow teaching of modern standards wouldn’t exist. And yet they still decide against teaching a proven scientific theory. Eh?
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You can have my academic endorsement. I am a physics graduate student/teaching assistant, so I can endorse both as a scientist and as an educator. Unintelligent design makes much more sense than ID, so I don’t see how they could refuse to teach UD if they agree to teach ID.
Any advice on how to write the letter to the board? I’m woefully terrible at writing, and would probably make the situation worse if I wrote it on my own.
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Of all the things in here that me balisstic about the Fundies, I think the Vitter thing is the worse. Imagie, a whore hopping, republican senator from Virginia looking to divert $100k of all of our money in a huge appropriation bill to fund a fundamentalist attempt to undermine American science education, by diluting it with this intelligent design gargage.
Using federal monies to subsidize an attempt by American primitives to force their religion down the throats of all of our children.
What a POS. Nornally, I would be tolerant to the public sexual indiscretions of this person, but maybe we should do whatever we have to to get him and Larry (Wide Stance) Craig out of our nations most deliberative body.
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Do you want to know the really weird thing about this?
My wife is Polish. She grew up in Poznan during the bad ol’ days of communism. And generally speaking, it’s hard to find a more religious country then Poland. Catholicism got it’s people through Communism and was a keystone in Solidarity. The churches are standing room only on sundays.
…Yet, the idea of not teaching science in a science class is astounding to her. She is truly scared of some of the fanatics in this country. We might be moving in the next year or so, and that’s one of the big worries. That we will end up moving to the middle of wingnut land.
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The thing you have to know is is that these ass-flying japes on the school board didn’t run on a campaign of bringing ID into the school curriculum. These people undoubtedly lied about who they were and what they would do once elected. A few years back I ran into a program that detailed how a PAC led or funded by Pat Robertson’s church (empire) counseled on how to get yourself elected to a school board, so you could ram this shit down everyone’s throat.
The key piece of advice was LIE. PORTRAY YOUSELF AS A MODERATE, CONCERNED PARENT WHO WANTED NOTHING MORE THAN TO INSURE GOOD ORDER WAS OBSERVED IN THE CLASSROOM, QUALIFIED TEACHERS AND ADMINISTRATORS WERE IN PLACE, AND GOOD FACILITIES AND TEACHING MATERIALS WERE AVAILABLE TO ALL.
Then, once elected, bring out the fundamentalist artillery. That the reason why after they get elected, show their true colors, they get defeated by landslides in the next election.
Pity our kids have to take bullets in the culture war, fired by these idiots.
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Hello, first off i’d like to say i agree ID shouldn’t be taught in school. But aren’t all of you athiests (soory Pastafarians) being equally arrogant as christians. Saying that the universe wasn’t created by an omnipotent being is equally arrogant as saying it definatly was.
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I remember a few years back, the Southern Poverty Law Center, bankrumpted a chapter of the Klu Klux Klan that incited some of its members to murder a young black man. Apparantly, they sued and won millions in Federal court, seized all that Klan assets and put the SOB’s out of business.
Perhaps some of us should investigate suing some of these ID people on school boards. If it were no longer “penalty free” to tie up public resources to debate the ludicrous proposals of these “Trojan Horse fundamentalist” board members perhaps that would chill their shit but good.
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It’s amazing… i thought this kinda stuff was just a given. sorry.. but i’m aussie, and… we’re talking about state schools?? last time that was really contested here was back in the late 80s i think…
at the moment i’m writing some article to remove Religious Education from the curriculum all together (in the sense that i doesn’t add any points to you’re end result(i dont really know what you call that in the US)) Across the board of state and private schools, letting it be taught in a purely Historical, Literary, Philosophical and theological sense. school is where you should teach kids how to think. and if the parents want to teach their kids what to think. then the onus is on them.
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@Tedd Buckland. The only point being made here is science is about deriving theories based on observing things in the natural world not extrapolating from those observations to posit truths about a realm beyond nature. I can never, ever say for sure these does not exist a realm beyond the one I observe, even if I dont think so. The point is those beliefs are not the province of science. Those teaching evolution but not ID are NOT saying “there is no God, and/or Intelligent Designer” All they are saying is that such speculations (and that is EXACTLY the correct word here) are beyond the ken of science and therefore will not be taught in a science classroom.
What is dangerous about ID is that by insisting it be taught in a science classroom , it equates what is metaphysical (speculative) thought with what is empirically verifiable scientific thought, and presents it as such to young impressionable minds. It is in effect co-opting state sponsored science education for purposes of evangelism.
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@ted buckland : contrary to the christians we pastafarians do not say that the universe was not created by an omnipotent being. What we say is we do not believe that the universe was created by an omnipotent being.
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There is a huge difference : the difference between being arrogant and not being arrogant
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Ramen
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@Ted,
There is a difference. There is solid scientific evidence for Evolution. Intelligent design, on the other hand, has no scientific evidence supporting it. The only “evidence” for ID comes from a religious text. Church and state need to remain as separate as possible.
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If Evolution is offensive to people, tough shit. The truly offensive thing is the ID proponents trying to put church stuff in schools. If they’re offended by science, they should go live in a cave, wait for the end of the world, and leave the educational system alone.
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@ted buckland: a couple small issues: everyone is entitled to a position that involves faith. The arrogance comes when you try to force your faith on others, and, worse, usurp the power of government to do it. It may or may not be a side issue that Pastafarians DO SO believe that the Universe WAS created by an omnipotent being: it just wasn’t Yahweh, it was the FSM.
@neal: both your implicit suggestions sound good to me. We might even be telling the truth by saying we were moderate, concerned parents who wanted good order, qualified teachers, and adequate facilities. And want to be treated by MD’s who have studied biochemistry rather than Bible Biology, LOFLMAO.
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some great/superpowers in history
ancient egypt: varying in strength from 4000bc to the point it was captured by the romans(alexander hardly counts)
persian empire:
history taught us they were very mean against the greek, broke apart after Alexanders conquests
macedonian
empire:
greek states at their cultural peak basicaly, lead by Alexander the great, broke apart after his death
china:
powerful through almost all of history though very small area of influence (perhaps a winning concept?)
roman empire(dictator lead):
lead by a strong leader waging war across the world and a senate that complianed about it (I believe that United states founding fathers had this in mind when they wrote the constitusion)
declined in strength in about 400ac due to a number of reasons, still open for discussion
Charles the great’s empire (early france):
almost the same as alexanders empire only in france and in the 500Ac(after the romans anyway), broke apart of the same reasons
ghengis khans emipre:
again, a great leader capturing a large chunk of land and then dies and everything goes back to normal
English empire:
often said to have gained the greatpower status with the destructon of the spanish armada of 1588, considered to have lost its leading role with the end of ww2 due to the growing might of USA
nazi germany:
gained power in 1933 due to dissent in the german population lost it in 1945 because they failed to fight of most of the world while destroying its own population
soviet union:
gained superpower status in 1945 because of the the destruction of their main enemy. It was lost at 1991 (I think) mainly because the russian president found out that he would have more power if it didn’t exist
USA:
the only superpower most consider these days, gained superpower status with the invetion of the atomic bomb.
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and now to the purpose with this brief history lesson:
what will cause the US to sieze being a superpower? history has shown us that it will inevitably happen(well, with china as an exception)
it is not likely to sieze with the death of a leader, plenty has died already and no change.
then there is the possibility the world gets mad at US and decides to conquer it.
then there is the most likely possibilites that the power will diminish over several years due to slower economical and sientific progress and fade away into the shades of history.
Now, before I appear as terrible anti american I’d like ask this:
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will it diminish faster or slower if the US is turned into a christian Iran? where religion is used as an measure to control large uneducated masses
my personal guess is that if these things decribed in OP happen on a grand scale, the illegal mexican immigrant problem would stop or possibly reverse in the matter of decades, do the future mexican taxpayers a favor: don’t let these things happen
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(I am now appearing as anti Iran but I guess there are not that whole lot Iranians that would read this, none that would take any offence anyway)
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any corrections on the historic data (or any at all) is appreciated, noone is perfect
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Ande
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@neal Dec 1st, 2007 at 2:22 am
“What is dangerous about ID is that by insisting it be taught in a science classroom , it equates what is metaphysical (speculative) thought with what is empirically verifiable scientific thought, and presents it as such to young impressionable minds. It is in effect co-opting state sponsored science education for purposes of evangelism.”
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RAmen neal
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@perna de pau Are you saying you don’t believe the FSM created everything? Blasphemy!
It seems obvious that trying to use *logic* against someone who has *faith* that God did everything AIN’T GONNA WORK. Instead, educate them about His Noodliness. They will be much more open to this line of reason, as it is their own, at which point they may begin to doubt their own beliefs.
Do what’s right and fight to get FSMism taught in public schools, don’t fight to take away ID.
I’m more likely to convince my cat with logic.. his mind is a product of pure natrual observation.
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Just dropped the school board a line.
Lacking Bobby Henderson’s fine analyical mind, and his first hand experience with divine revelation, I copied his letter to the Kansas school board, with a couple of minor changes.
Hope that helps them out.
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@ted buckland
Hello, first off i’d like to say i agree the Easter Bunny shouldn’t be taught in school. But aren’t all of you Chickenists (soory Eggatarians) being equally arrogant as Bunnites. Saying that the Easter Bunny does not exist is equally arrogant as saying it definatly does.
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*cough*cough*BULLSH&T*cough*cough*
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It is truly a strange land that many of you fellow pastafarians live in. How strange it is that in many places it seems to be up to the most unlearned to decide what to teach to others.
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A case of the blind leading the blind and also others that have vision.
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Here is something I wrote to them last night, reading it this morning did make me realise it sounds kinda similar in areas to Bobby’s original, but ah well we’ll just see if they say anything.
“Greetings,
I am writing to you after having read of your determination to bring a variety of viewpoints to your regions students, namely the teaching of intelligent design alongside evolution as part of your science curriculum. While I strongly support the belief that students should be exposed to as many schools of thought as is possible, I am concerned that despite your good intentions you may only teach your students one theory of intelligent design, when in actual fact there are many such theories. I, for example, am a member of a religion that believes that the earth, universe and all else that we see and feel was created by the Flying Spaghetti Monster (FSM), and that any evidence to the contrary was set in place by Him.
We have, of course, existed since His creation of everything, but until recently we remained a secretive group. It was our prophet Bobby Henderson who first chose to reveal our presence to the world in his well known open letter to the Kansas School Board. Since becoming pubic Flying Spaghetti Monsterism (or Pastafarianism) has received a number of notable endorsements from the scientific community. However, since all science is manipulated by His Noodly Appendage, their opinions should not be overstated. Evolution itself is only an unproven (and unprovable) scientific theory, so should not be overstated and treated as more than such. As this clearly puts evolution on an equal footing to ID, we would encourage you to consider teaching FSM in your science rooms also, as ours is an equally valid theory.
You may also be interested to know that pastafarians such as myself do not believe in the conventionally established theory of gravity as perpetuated by science today, the reason for this being that once again science has managed to produce a series of observations with regard to how gravity works, but has failed to explain the cause of the force itself. We instead believe in “intelligent falling”, by which we mean that gravity as it has been observed is instead the result of FSM pushing us down with His Noodly Appendages. While it’s true that we don’t have any empirical evidence to back this theory, we choose to follow the precedent laid down by ID proponents, that to establish a theory we do not any observable or reasoned evidence, only the capability to poke holes in the established theory.
You should know however that His Noodly Name may only be preached by those wearing His chosen outfit, full pirate regalia. He becomes angry if we don’t. If you decide that you do wish to educate your students about our beliefs we would be more than happy to instruct you on how to go about this.
While there is much more I would like to say to you about our beliefs and their rightful place in your, nay, the worlds classrooms, I feel it is time to round off, and I can’t think of a better way to do so than with a quote from our prophet himself, extracted from his letter to the Kansas School Board.
“I think we can all look forward to the time when these three theories are given equal time in our science classrooms across the country, and eventually the world; One third time for Intelligent Design, one third time for Flying Spaghetti Monsterism, and one third time for logical conjecture based on overwhelming observable evidence.” – Bobby Henderson
Kind regards,
*. ******, concerned Pastafarian.”
Hope I represented us right, apologies if I missed anything important.
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I wouldn’t be so quick to give Frank O’Reilly a Darwin…
“You’re talking about separation of church and state,” O’Reilly said. “I believe in intelligent design personally, but the court has ruled against it. We cannot break the law if it is set down before us.”
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I’m a danish pastafarian (RAmen!), and this hardly ever occour i Denmark (if it actually ever has), but is it a big problem in the states? And don’t the government has anything to say, or is each school independent, and can teach whatever they want?
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I have mailed the good folk at Polk from the UK, figers crossed that good sense will prevail
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RAmen, fellows.
I can’t understand how those people can claim (as they usually do) to be patriots. Because what they are doing is precisely the kind of thing that makes us in Europe think Americans are completely stupid
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“I would want to balance it with the fact that we may live in a universe created by a supreme being as well.”
I don’t remember evolution being taught as an explanation for the creation of the universe. Why do these people feel that God is being attacked by the theory of evolution? At no point do I remember my teachers telling me that there is no God because there is evolution. There is nothing that prevents these people from agreeing with it and saying “maybe God created evolution.”
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Ted Buckland, (posting Dec 1st at 12:57am) asserts that it is just as arrogant for an atheist to say the universe wasn’t created by an omnipotent being as for someone else to say it definitely was.
I’d debate the “just as” bit, especially in a science classroom, which is the point of this forum. I am with Rene Descartes; that nothing outside of basic mathematical proofs and the existence of one’s own self can be proven with any absolute certainty. But is it ‘just as’ arrogant of me to state the moon isn’t made of green cheese as to state that it is?
That said, if the Fundies are willing to qualify their god as a theory every time they preach to me then I’d be happy to qualify accepted scientific proofs as theories when I mention them.
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Actually, let me one-up my own comment.
Which is more ‘arrogant:’ to say
1) “I believe [whatever] to be true based on objective observance and standing my belief up to reasonable scrutiny and critical, empirical experimentation” or to say
2) “I believe [whatever] to be true because God told me so and if God tells you differently, either through divine revelation or through physical evidence, then God is lying to you.”
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