The Ledger reports that the majority of Polk County, Florida, School Board members support teaching Intelligent Design in addition to evolution in public schools.
It’s unclear if they’re prepared to change the definition of science. Some people are concerned that a supernatural theory will not mesh with the study of the natural world.
Board member Kay Fields said last week she wants intelligent design, which is promoted by some Christian groups, taught in science classes in addition to evolution.
“If it ever comes to the board for a vote, I will vote against the teaching of evolution as part of the science curriculum,” Lofton said. “If (evolution) is taught, I would want to balance it with the fact that we may live in a universe created by a supreme being as well.”
The board’s majority opinion is at odds with many in Florida’s scientific community who strongly support the new, more rigorous science standards, and say intelligent design lacks scientific credibility.
Perhaps Florida’s scientific community has not realized the type of genius arguments they’re up against:
“My tendency would be to have both sides shared with students since neither side can be proven,” [School Board Member] Tim Harris said.
“I don’t have a conflict with intelligent design versus evolution,” [School Board Member] Sellers said. “The two go together.”
“It crosses the line with people who are Christians,” [School Board Member] Lofton said. “Evolution is offensive to a lot of people.”
Pastafarians are concerned that the Polk County School Board is endorsing Intelligent Design, but ignoring our theory, even though it is widely endorsed by the scientific community.
I will wager that the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster can produce more academic endorsements for our theory than Intelligent Design proponents can for theirs.
My guess is that the Polk County School Board is just unaware of Pastafarianism. As a public service, I propose that we contact them, and let them know that there are other supernatural theories just as valid as Intelligent Design, primarily ours.
Contact info:
Those in favor of Intelligent Design:
Kay Fields (District 5)
Kay.Fields@polk-fl.net
863-802-5483
Tim Harris (District 7)
Tim.Harris@polk-fl.net
863-808-0005
Margaret Lofton (District 6, Chairman)
Margaret.Lofton@polk-fl.net
863-294-9076
Hazel Sellers (District 3)
Hazel.Sellers@polk-fl.net
863-533-7714
Lori Cunningham (District 2, Vice-Chairman) - undecided
Lori.Cunningham@polk-fl.net
863-512-1656
Those not in favor of Intelligent Design:
Frank O’Reilly (District 1)
Frank.Oreilly@polk-fl.net
863-647-1390
Brenda Reddout (District 4)
Brenda.Reddout@polk-fl.net
863-324-0127
You can use this link to email all 7 School board members.
Please be respectful - remember we are not criticizing their beliefs, merely pointing out that there is another, just as legitimate, theory that should be included into the curriculum. Please leave a comment and tell us about your conversations with the School Board. Thank you!
The Ledger article can be found here.
*update* 12/11/07 - Their local newspaper published a story about our campaign here.
To The Pinellas County Board of Education:
I applaud you for your courage and conviction in advocating for a balanced science curriculum in Pinellas County.
Despite the fact that science embodies logic, reason, evidence, and the peer review process, nothing can trump our faith that there is another, greater explanation for the universe. That’s what my parents taught me, and that’s what their parents taught them, and so on. Could all of my ancestors stretching back thousands of years be wrong?
But, I implore you all not to shortchange your students. While Intelligent Design (”ID”) has no physical evidence to support it as a scientific theory, it is not the only alternative to rational thought out there. Please consider incorporating the theory of the Flying Spaghetti Monster (”FSM”) into your science curriculum as well. While I grant you that there is far more logic behind FSM than ID, I can also assure you that, at its core, FSM is really based on faith and therefore passes your rigid test as appropriate material for your children.
I thank you for your consideration. If you would like to learn more about my faith, I would be most happy to enlighten you.
R’ Amen,
Daren Niklerog
The pingback on the bottom of this page points to a little more coverage:
http://irregulartimes.com/index.php/archives/2007/12/29/polk-county-creationists-witness-the-intercession-of-his-noodly-appendage/
Truly, the Polk County School Board will no longer doubt the existence of the omnipotent FSM! They must admit to themselves that their blatant disregard for more rational theories of cosmic and human origins have riled the great FSM himself to boldly thrust his noodly appendage into the matter. I’ll bet that is the last time they try this little gambit without first considering the consequences. All they need really do before considering such action in the future is think: WWFSMD. It would save them a lot of humiliation.
R’amen
Kona
okay just to point out, how is there evidence for Inteligent design but none for evolution? the only people it offends are those that dont understand it, evolution is not trying to give us all the answers just the ones about how life as we know it came to be
We all know that the real crux of the issue isn’t evolution or intelligent design, it’s power.
I thought Oregon’s Polk County where I live……..
I find too often that very few have a clear understanding of Intelligent Design and those who claim to know Evolution do not know science at all. In fact, I find that many people make up thier science to justify their weird beliefs like Global Warming. There are three sciences to global warming and no one talks about the accurate science. Likewise, Evolution proponents insist on naturalistic principles like randomness and Frankenstien theories of sparking life into inanimate matter that simply are not true or scientific. Did many of you know that Islamics believe the world is floating on the back of a turtle? According to their science this keeps the world from sinking into the cosmic abyss.
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There is a truth out there believe it or not. In fact, there is a science to discovering the truth. This science is called epistomology and no one studies it today.
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People have weird beliefs that they so arrogantly want to believe that they will distort truth, reality, and even perception in order to make THEIR belief justified. These people are so inept at usingtheir minds that they cannot look back at themselves. They an only look outward.
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In my minds eye, I have travelled to a far away place and looked back at this world from anothers viewpoint. I have looked at things from many other perspectives and have come to realize that it is not what I know or can see but what is revealed to me.
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There are few Christians I meet who can meaningfully discuss Intelligent design. They are trying but lack the ability to make the necessary correlations. The correlations do exist but mst are unable to make them. Likewise, evolutionist are far too emotional and rely on psuedo science to defend their belief. By the way, Evolution is not a science. It is a philosophy or cosmology of sorts. Evolutions intended message is that there is no God. Eventhough, atheist and agnostics believe either in no God or willful ignorance, they ultimately worship a God that is a NULL and this is the God they defend and fight for.
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I doubt most humans will ever come to know the truth as so many attempt to bury it in obfuscation. Unfortunately, too many people will come to know false science and perhaps fall into the allure and charms of a false God.
MrMiama; your post has annoyed me to such an extent with it’s wrongness that I shall not deign to attempt to correct you. I’m sure that one of the other forumites will be along shortly to clean up this mess.
MrMiami,
Please explain these revolutionary new ideas that you’re crack-smoking alien masters programmed you with….
BTW,
“Evolution is not a science. It is a philosophy or cosmology of sorts.”
if this is true, does that mean the Laws of thermodynamics are really a form of ESP?
please explain….
Pinellas County Board of Education,
I applaud your efforts to keep both Intelligent Design (ID) and Evolution in school curriculum. Since ID is not simply a Christian ideal, I can’t wait to be holding signs on your behalf!!!! I must admit that I am not a Christian, but I adamantly fight on behalf of ID being taught in our schools systems! Below is a list of all ID “theories” that should be taught along with your Christian ID theory. Thanks for helping us all live in a better, more ethical and moral world! The Christians have a proven track record of over 2000 years of being nothing but PERFECTLY (Christ like) moral and ethical.
Please refer to the list below so we can start buying books on each ID subject! I will happily be the first to donate on behalf of my religion!
Asatru
Baha’i Faith
Caodaism
Christianity
Damanhur Community
Religious Druidism
Druze (Druse, Muwahhid, Mowahhidoon, Mo’wa’he’doon, Taw’heed Faith)
Eckankar
The Elia’n Gonzalez Religious Movement
Gnosticism
Gypsies
Hinduism
FSM
Goddess Worship (for history)
Ifa
Islam
Judaism
Jainism
Jehovah Wittnesses
Krishna’s
Lukumi
Macumba
Theistic Satanism
Scientology (on earth)
Sikhism
Shinto
The Creativity Movement (formerly the World Church of the Creator)
Unitarian
Vodun
Wiccan
Yizidi
Zorastrianism
I know that Jane Dellucci says that “students should be given the opportunity to view ALL theories on how man evolved”… but we have to start somewhere… right?
I could only put these very few different religions due to the fact that I have limited time, but I think you get the picture of how important it is to get our ID views out to the public. Hopefully you can get private funds donated for the cause since the government will not appropriate funds on this behalf. Perhaps you are all independently wealthy and can support this cause with your own bank accounts? I view you all as modern day pioneers of ID.
Since Polk County, FL has 160 School sites including 65 Elementary Schools, 19 Middle Schools, and 16 High Schools I believe that time is NOT on our side. Since the Polk County school district has over 95,000 students it is imperative that we start the fund raising mission soon! Let me do some math to shorten our time and just get straight to the fundraising.
Here are our variables:
95,000 Students = x
32 (minimum number of ID theory’s proposed) = y
$100.00 (least amount of money for a modern religious textbook) = z
Equation is: (x * y * z = $)
Rough estimate = $304,000,000.00 (Three Hundred and Four Million Dollars).
I’m sure they (Religious Institutions) will give us a discount since it is for a good cause. At least we can try… right!?
Again… this is only the first year’s editions; we can update our books every year because of simple dogmatic changes in our different religions.
Since our current budget is $798,400,000.00 and 82% of that goes to teaching, transporting, and counseling students, 15% of that comes from operating and maintenance, and the remaining 3% goes to central and fiscal services… means we need to do some tremendous fundraising, or cut some fat off the corners.
Since the state funds 63% of the general fund (for now, hopefully they will continue after ID is introduced) comes from the state, we will have to make provisions for more local money because of the possibility of losing state funding. We MUST ACT NOW! This is absolutely the best thing to do!
Since your school system is made up of 53% white, 23% black and 22% Hispanic, we will need to hire Theologist’s that speak multiple languages. This will surely decrease our budget significantly so we will need to make preparations for this also. Since education is the absolute most important thing (ensure rigorous, relevant learning experiences that result in high achievement for our students = current Polk County mission statement) then we must understand that money is no object and act as such.
Below are my three proposed options:
1.) Trim some fat off the current budget by dropping health care, pensions, and instituting all reserve monies into next year’s budget. Also, since our cause is so noble, I’m sure that teachers will gladly take an 80% pay cut in order to have an opportunity to be part of such a movement. This should save us a great deal of money for more books next year!
2.) I say we proportion our entire fiscal budget for next year into hiring new multilingual Theologist’s and buying these new books. We can then let our faith bring the money in for the remainder of the budget. Surely with all of these different faiths being taught the God’s will reward us!
3.) Continue to teach the theory of evolution based on overwhelming observable scientific evidence and forego ID teachings in its entirety.
Personally, I would do option 3.
Just in case… I am contacting the Dover, Pennsylvania School board to help assist you in case this goes to trial. I assure you, they have plenty of experience in this realm. I’m not sure if the members that were on trial are sill on the board, or even in civilized public, but I’m sure they can point us in the correct direction.
Let me know what I can do to help! I remain your humble servant.
I copied my religious Prophet (Bobby Henderson). I can’t speak for my Prophet… but he can probably assist you in your goals, I would trust him entirely and sign him up as a consultant. What could be better than an actual Prophet in the ID realm?
Ramen,
Shawn Pate
@Iain & MonkeyBoy:
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Science only deals with complexity and order. Science makes no ascertains about origin. However, science can be used to reconcile origin ideas. Hence, ‘The Origin of a Species’ is not science but attempts to use science to reconcile ideas about origin just as Intelligent Design (ID) does the same. It just so happens that ID reconciles with the Bible instead of a human’s ethereal idea of origin. Unfortunately, in order to make science fit an idea about origin, human’s tend to adjust the science instead of letting the science report in truth. A problem in many cosmological views.
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Evolution uses a different science than Intelligent Design uses on numerous points. Some of these points center on the notion of randomness, the definition of life, and fundamental scientific rigors.
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The Evolutionist Genesis profoundly claims that at some point in the past the right mix of inanimate and inert materials somehow came into contact. They speculate by currents moving the components around, by tectonic forces bringing them together, or by the collapse of a super nebula during a violent age somewhere in the universe. Simultaneously, natural forces formed static charges of sufficient strength to ‘spark’ the inert materials into a primordial protoplasmic globule. Overtime this globule morphed through natural selection and random drift forming higher orders of life. This life could have traveled at some point by spatial pan spermia and deposited on the planet Earth. This is to remark that biological life is a phenomenon that is becoming more organized over time and is spread over the universe through the pan spermia mechanism. There is nothing unique about biological life other than to remark it is a galactic weed.
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Ultimately, the Church of Evolution remarks there is no Deity that is active or in control of the universe. The universe and its natural order have no purpose other than to aimless re-organize overtime to some other order. Evolutionists oddly claim that order occurs in contrast to its dependency on the notion of random action. If, by chance, an Evolutionist claims they believe in a Deity, it is one that is disinterested in creation and has no interest in the natural other than to have created it and moved on. Like a creationist, the Evolutionist proselytizes the belief with religious fervor by fighting for and defending his God of NULL.
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Intelligent Design comparatively claims the universe is ordered and randomness does not exist as a natural phenomenon. ID remarks that creation is the outcome of an interested and involved deity. ID views biological life as a combination of a biological embodiment and a spiritual presence – a soul. ID tells us that life was placed on Earth not by pan spermia but by a Deity that desires to walk amongst humans at some point in the future. Like an Evolutionist, the creationist proselytizes the belief with religious fervor by fighting for and defending his God who has given humans a choice. He is a deity who does not force himself upon humans but desires that humans open their eyes and come to him by choice. He is a Deity who confirms his presence in his design sort of like an artist signs his works.
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In the end, you could worship NULL, God of nothing, or you could worship the Judeo/Christian God, God of it all. In general, evolutionists remind me of ‘Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom’. The mesmerized miners below the palace wildly swing arms and chant as a victim’s heart is stolen then burst into flames.
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Response to MrMiami
You’re telling me that Intelligent Design uses science; a science that is proven by its own book? Wow… that would be easy to do. Let me write a book and then prove to you what I wrote was actually written.
I applaud your attempt to sound civilized but… Christians hold these “Temple of Doom” ceremonies every day… all across the world. So don’t act all “Righteous” and act like what you are doing is better than what anybody else is doing. If you were born in the middle east you would be Muslim and you would chant the same story about FSM. The truth is… people like you WANT and NEED to be controlled by other people. So go ahead and remain the slave of one person’s political agenda.
Pulling hearts out??? You might want to do some research on blood sacrifice and religion. Also, don’t you eat the body and drink the blood of Jesus? What’s the difference? And no… it’s not a symbol of the body and blood… Christians actually BELIEVE it IS the body and blood of Christ.
I’ve been an Atheist for a long time and still have not attended an Atheist ceremony. I think you have us confused with other religions such as your own. Do some research and get back to me on that. Just because it’s not Christianity (you do have your own f’d up rituals) doesn’t mean it’s not an ID based religion.
My issue with most Christians (all that I have met) is that they accept what someone else has told them and require no proof at all (faith you call it). Not only this… but Christians fail to do any research on the origin of life, culture, or politics of the time of Jesus. Christians just go to church and listen to the same sermon that was repeated 6 weeks ago. Trust me when I say this… the clergy does not want to change the Status Quo. If you actually LEARNED something… you might find out that religion is a tool used to control people when government fails.
I have done more research regarding Christianity than ALL Christians that I have met. I can hold a more rational conversation with Christians because of WHAT I KNOW… not what I don’t know. Nearly 100% of the time I talk to Christians that have “Their own view” on Christianity (Moderates or Liberals). They do not share the same ideals of the Christian Religion. The problem is… nobody will admit this when they are in their “Fellowship” groups… because it’s easier to lie and be forgiven than it is to tell the truth and be persecuted. Sound familiar?
How many Christians do you know that don’t believe in evolution. I have met maybe 1 or 2 and they don’t want to talk about it. All the others just say “yeah… I’m a Christian but I believe in evolution”… which is not a Christian at all. It’s someone who has taken a moral and ethical philosophy and massaged it into a religion. It makes me sick that these same people go to church for the sport of it.
So nice try; the irony of the entire thing is that you called “faith”… science. The only science in faith is examining the psychological need for Christians to feel:
1.) part of a group
2.) attached to invisible, non tangible, non provable entities
3.) exactly opposite of what the bible teaches (Peaceful, non-violent, tolerable)
I could honestly go on for a long time here… it’s just too interesting to not study.
So please don’t confuse what science and religion are. Religion and science are not even in the same realm. Your argument is no different from me telling you that the book “Where the Wild Things are” actually happened. Hey… I got a book to prove it… and you can’t disprove it. I can say that I have “Faith” that it actually happened…. and you can’t disprove me. Get it?
Science takes observable evidence, does experiments, creates a rule, tries to break that rule, asks other scientist to break the rule, and then it becomes fact. Facts build a hypothesis, several hypothesis’s become a theory. Thus… the theory of evolution.
Religious theory is DIFFERENT. Let me repeat myself, DIFFERENT from scientific theory. Religious theory just means “idea”.
Your best option is to use Science… to prove that your god is real. Except… you really don’t want to work that hard… do you? That seems to be the Christian mantra.
Truth is… it’s easier to be a Christian than an Atheist due to the fact that we are still educating ourselves… Christians have already given up.
Do us all a favor… and prove us Pastafarians wrong. I dare you… or do you not want to work that hard??? It’s just eternity… right?
Shawn Pate
Mr. Miami:::
Those who support evolution only do so because it is the main scientific theory out there that explains the world, IT IS NOT A RELIGION!!!
As a part of science, if someone disproves evolution by some means, then science would drop it and go with whatever the new one is. So, if a creationist could prove that evolution can’t happen without bible quotes or evidence that cannot be counted by anyone, I would not think of evolution as the way life occurs right now.
Unfortunatly, and I’m sure you agree, the only evidence out there that creationists bring up are bible quotes. And any evidence they get against it was an error that existed in Charles Darwin’s “The Origin of Species”, not realizing that they’re criticizing data that is 150 YEARS OLD instead of dealing with the more recent observations and theories.
Oh, and epistomology. That is just the study of knowledge based on what we believe and what is true (or something like that). I don’t see how you confuse what seems to be psychology with the origins of life, so I’ll get rid of your confusion. Science is only about trying to get as close to the truth as we can (which is why I could give up evolution if you can dissprove it) realizing that we will never be 100% right. epistomology, from what I see, takes beliefs into account: it says that knowledge comes from things that you believe that ARE TRUE! but, I ask, how do you determine what is probably true? With science, and what does science require? evidence, oberservation and experimentation. and what does the evidence observations and experimentation say about the orgin of life? That evolution, as far as scientific evidence goes, is our best guess so far until someone disproves it beyond a REASONABLE doubt.
@Caveat Lector:
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EVOLUTION IS A RELIGION! It is a shame that you are so polarized in your thoughts that you cannot see that. First, whenever origin is discussed it has nothing to science. Science deals with complexity and order. Hence, the ‘Origin of a Species’ is a cosmological revelation that attempts to use science in order to validate that BELIEF. This is the exact same thing that Intelligent Design, ID, proponents do. ID attempts to reconcile science with the revelation of the Bible.
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Part of the problem is that the science Evolution uses and the science ID uses are not entirely the same science. The underpinnings of the sciences is fundamentally different in the treatment of randomness vs order, the definition of life, and other scientific rigors. In short, the ‘good’ ideas are influencing the science rather than the science influencing the ‘good’ ideas.
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For example, evolution defines life as a set of chemical processes and a collection of material particles that randomly assembled, animated, and evolved to form creatures and plants. ID defines life as a biological embodiment that is host to a spirit or soul of a animal or human. The soul is the essence of each animal or individual. Plants are not considered as ‘life’ under ID although they possess the same biological qualities. Plants do not possess a spirit or soul.
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The evangelical evolutionist are akin to street corner Bible thumpers. These evolutionary nuts shout down anyone and everyone with thier radicalized belief. They prosyletize by insisting on it being in schools that are today more like a Madrassah than the freest expansion of the human mind. They are literal adherents to ashes-to-ashes and dust-to-dust. Imagine that, the evangelical evolutionist believe that you have more in common with a dust speck than a future with an eternal God.
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There is no science to evolution. There is only a ‘good’ idea and a psuedo-science to make it appear right.
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Once again, I return to ‘Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom’. Evolution converts are like the mesmerized miners below the palace wildly swing arms and chant as a victim’s heart is stolen then burst into flames before thier God, NULL. Halee Kaaa Haleee Kaaa!
@Caveat Lector:
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Creationist only cite Bible verses. ID is not creationism. ID proponents have an alternative explanation in which science is reconciled with the Bible regarding creation.
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Quantum physics indicates that the phyisical Universe deconstructs to a quantized or discrete state. This state is digital in nature and is described by information theory leading to quantum computing theories. These theories indicate that the universe is an outcome of a irreversible computational algorythm and everything physical is computationally executed. Hence, the big bang equates to the throwing of a arcing switch and the program begins to execute. Furthermore, quantum physics indicates that the entire physical universe ceases to exist and becomes waveforms (string theory) when those discrete chunks of matter are cut in half the last time.
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ID proponents reconcile this scientific finding with what the Bible says. In Genesis 1:3 God spoke the universe into existence or communicated information. This is an indication of an information orientation. Hebrews 11:3 says the universe is made of that we cannot touch. Information is intangible. The Bible is a message, God is the word, and the word is the light. We know that information can be encoded into light waves. God may have very well coded or made the universe in 7 days. The codes execution has been longer. There is for more to this than just one or two versus but I think get the gist.
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This is also consistent with the notion that DNA is a pattern makers template. Information is no only stored in the DNA but also acts on the DNA and includes timing, sequencing, and duration of firing genes. DNA has been frequently described like a computer program. The pattern maker could be operating the template within the constructs of the code. Could there be truth to a Bible Code?
@Shawn Pate
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An atheist has a God despite thier vocal opposition to the notion. Atheist have defensive points to justify their belief and write books like Richard Dawkins does. The God of an atheist is a NULL whether you like it and believe it or not. You have a God and you willingfully defend it.
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I have studied Islam and Christianity both. They are doctrinally diametrically opposites on every point they make. Evolution actually dove tails nicely into Islam since they believe that Christians and Jewish comes from monkeys and chickens. Actually, I think that verse is more of an insult than a factual statement. Nonetheless, you’ll find Muslims are attracted to Evolution more so than Christians.
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Understandings in the Judeo/Christian doctrine are stratified. There is a lay, theological, and scholarly interpretation. Each intrepretation stratification has liberal and conservative variants. The lay interpretation is almost always incorrect. The Scholarly interpretations are focused on the academics of science, history, psychology, culture, etc… in relation to the scriptures. The Theological interpretations take the scholarly understandings and apply them to the practical application of living life and answering the philosophical questions such as who am I, why am I here, and what happens after I die?
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Your diatribe about faith is often reflected by many people. I also see the frustration people have with the protestant churchs today. The protestant churchs almost solely focus on newcomers and rarely develop the faith in maturing Christians. Hence, many are left to thier own devices which can be dangerous since there is a very deliberate method of learning the doctrine.
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Compounding the problem is the fact that people of any faith are at different stations of maturity in the faith. Some go on and mature into an accurate understanding and application of the faith. Others stagnant and never move forward. Protestant Christian doctrine remarks that every Christian is a leader in the faith and is responsible for correctly learning the faith once a member. Unfortunately, many Christians view the faith incorrectly through a worldly lense rather than from a supernatural lense or they develop their understanding using lay interpretations that are incorrect based on scriptural doctrine. Coincidentally, less than 2% of doctrinal Christianity is in dispute amongst the theologians, scholars, and even the fragmented Christian religions. The disputed doctrine has no bearing on the message or the critical principles in the theology.
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Muslims are somewhat different than the Christians. There is one major rift in Islam between Sunni and Shia’s and both are stratified but in different ways than Christians. They tend to be stratified by thier practice rather than understanding. There are non-practicing Jihadist, Moderate Jihadist, and Fundamental Jihadist. The Moderates are generally broken into Spiritual Jihadist, Supporting Jihadist, and Contributing Jihadist. Fundamental Jihadist are the ones that take it to the most overt actions. Interestingly, while the rift is principally over who can be an Imam, they both appeal to the same Islamic philosophers such as Mawdudi.
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In the end, all humans appeal to a kind of God in one form or another regardless of their acknowledgement of that God. The challenge that all humans are confronted with is properly determining which is the true God. It is a life journey and has implications beyond life. It is more important to learn how to learn and methods to learning than it is to be told something. Einstein once remarked that knowledge and discovery are not possible unless one can first imagine. Einstein came to understand the theory of relativity by imagining that he was a photon of light. Can you imagine yourself outside the universe looking back? Can you imagine yourself looking through the eyes of another? Can you image stream and conduct combinatory play in the mind’s eye?
MrMiami:
Although I tried to have a reasonable conversation with you, it appears that whoever taught you religion attended the “David Koresh” school of “how to get others to drink the cool aid”. I applaud his manipulation tactics!!!! I’m sure you have given him a great deal of money by now. After all… God does need your money.
I do like how you conveniently overlooked my post. Is it that you forgot already? Or does your faith lead you to believe that it does not actually exist?
Let’s do a simple experiment to show you the difference between a Religious person’s faith, and a scientists “belief” as you call it.
Let’s take 2 people, say… you… and I.
Now let’s start a bonfire in the middle of a field and stand next to it.
I, as a scientist, deduce that IF I were to jump into the bonfire and lay down… I would burn to death. This is not a belief… this is what would happen based on laws and hypothesis that science has concluded.
So let’s take your… faith… and have you do the same thing. Do you believe that you would not burn? What does your faith have to do with what is tangible in our realm of reality? Is this the same reason Christians die every year after being bit from the rattlesnake that god was supposed to protect them from while dancing with at church?
So why don’t you jump in the fire? Is it your god that taught you not to lie in a bonfire… or is it science? (insert Jeopardy music here).
So here is a TANGIBLE difference between science, belief, proof, and faith.
You don’t have the BELIEF that your FAITH will protect you because of what SCIENCE has PROVEN.
Is this a little more clear for you? If not… try out this experiment and see what happens. I will personally bow down and kiss your feet, then declare my love for the Christian god if it does not go the way science has PROVEN to happen. If you are protected by your Christian god then I will become a born again Christian.
I know what your thinking… there is a difference between faith and crazy… I’m telling you that you are walking a very thin line. This is the reason for FSM in the first place. It is derived to illustrate the shortcomings of religions based on “beliefs” with no evidence.
Christians and ID people such as yourself are always pointing their finger at science and asking us to PROVE things. Well I am going to go outside of my typical scientist role and ask you to do something… PROVE your god exists.
And please don’t use the sub-seventy IQ control tactic of asking me how to explain how a tree exists without god… for I can explain that. Please… don’t mention irreducible complexity to me… this is also an ID purveyors great misfortune… it simply makes you all look like you have done exactly NO research. Please don’t misuse scientist’s quote to defend your issues… it’s been played out.
Your move…
MrMiama.
Interestingly enough, evolution has a significant amount of scientific proof. ID doesn’t. And you do know that evolution isnt at all random? Its differencial survival (I think that is the right term, someone with some sense, ie. not MrMiama, correct me if I’m wrong.) It takes thousands of changes for an entire species to evolve, it isn’t just an instant thing. Why am i even going to the trouble of thinking of a way to explain this to you? You seem pretty stuck in your beliefs. You may want to take a lesson from an Agnostic. When someone proves that your theory isn’t true, as many have with ID, then you give your theory up and move on to the proven one.
How a God who created the universe NOT be part of the science that he created?