The Ledger reports that the majority of Polk County, Florida, School Board members support teaching Intelligent Design in addition to evolution in public schools.
It’s unclear if they’re prepared to change the definition of science. Some people are concerned that a supernatural theory will not mesh with the study of the natural world.
Board member Kay Fields said last week she wants intelligent design, which is promoted by some Christian groups, taught in science classes in addition to evolution.
“If it ever comes to the board for a vote, I will vote against the teaching of evolution as part of the science curriculum,” Lofton said. “If (evolution) is taught, I would want to balance it with the fact that we may live in a universe created by a supreme being as well.”
The board’s majority opinion is at odds with many in Florida’s scientific community who strongly support the new, more rigorous science standards, and say intelligent design lacks scientific credibility.
Perhaps Florida’s scientific community has not realized the type of genius arguments they’re up against:
“My tendency would be to have both sides shared with students since neither side can be proven,” [School Board Member] Tim Harris said.
“I don’t have a conflict with intelligent design versus evolution,” [School Board Member] Sellers said. “The two go together.”
“It crosses the line with people who are Christians,” [School Board Member] Lofton said. “Evolution is offensive to a lot of people.”
Pastafarians are concerned that the Polk County School Board is endorsing Intelligent Design, but ignoring our theory, even though it is widely endorsed by the scientific community.
I will wager that the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster can produce more academic endorsements for our theory than Intelligent Design proponents can for theirs.
My guess is that the Polk County School Board is just unaware of Pastafarianism. As a public service, I propose that we contact them, and let them know that there are other supernatural theories just as valid as Intelligent Design, primarily ours.
Contact info:
Those in favor of Intelligent Design:
Kay Fields (District 5)
Kay.Fields@polk-fl.net
863-802-5483
Tim Harris (District 7)
Tim.Harris@polk-fl.net
863-808-0005
Margaret Lofton (District 6, Chairman)
Margaret.Lofton@polk-fl.net
863-294-9076
Hazel Sellers (District 3)
Hazel.Sellers@polk-fl.net
863-533-7714
Lori Cunningham (District 2, Vice-Chairman) - undecided
Lori.Cunningham@polk-fl.net
863-512-1656
Those not in favor of Intelligent Design:
Frank O’Reilly (District 1)
Frank.Oreilly@polk-fl.net
863-647-1390
Brenda Reddout (District 4)
Brenda.Reddout@polk-fl.net
863-324-0127
You can use this link to email all 7 School board members.
Please be respectful - remember we are not criticizing their beliefs, merely pointing out that there is another, just as legitimate, theory that should be included into the curriculum. Please leave a comment and tell us about your conversations with the School Board. Thank you!
The Ledger article can be found here.
*update* 12/11/07 - Their local newspaper published a story about our campaign here.
Makes me I feel like I’m on a merry-go-round that just won’t stop. Will be having nightmares soon!
“I will wager that the Church of FSM can produce more academic endorsements for our theory than Intelligent Design proponents can for theirs.”
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I for one wouldn’t accept that bet bobby (:))
Why is that there are things that can’t be taught because they might be “offensive” to “some people”? I’m sorry, but this is absolutely ridiculous. The First Amendment in the US has evolved to not only keep the state out of the church(es), but to keep the church(es) out of the state as well. This is just beyond belief…and I’m sorry Ms. Sellers, but evolution and ID do not go together. If you would like to see ID taught in schools, then perhaps you and the rest of the Polk County School Board should consider instituting a religion/philosphy class for students. But keep ID out of the science classroom!! (I have strong feelings on this, as I had a science teacher in high school, who, though a very nice woman, felt it was necessary to take it upon herself to teach us why evolution is wrong.)
I’m not too worried about this one. If they decided to mandate ID in curricula the Dover verdict would serve as a fresh and very strong precedent. However, it is a bit depressing that, despite the Dover verdict, christians won’t learn. What will it take for these lunatics to wise up?
Awesome, now the zealots show up near where I leave. I think I’m going to have to bring them some pamplets (dressed in pirate regalia of course) about the FSM the next time I decide to head towards Orlando/St. Cloud.
@DPG–I do agree the Dover case is some pretty strong ammo against teaching ID in the science classroom. And this is a possible change in the *state* law, not just the school district itself. Like the article said, if they don’t like this possible change in more rigorous science curriculum, they’ll have to fight it in court. Still, it’s aggravating that there are still so many people who feel the desire to mix science and religion.
“Evolution is offensive to a lot of people.”
Then let’s stop teaching the Holocaust in history. It’s uncomfortable and offensive to some people. While we’re at it, let’s stop teaching in general. We might expose people accidentally to topics they find offensive. Let’s drop education and learning and go back to hunting and gathering.
I still see no one has confonted these board members yet, just mabye, if we all tell them about the FSM, they might just split the class into 3 sections. ID, FSM and logical conjecture based on overwhelming observable evidence.
Intelligent designer are merely the evolved version of the primitive creationism(es).
“I would want to balance it with the fact that we may live in a universe created by a supreme being as well.”
Sounds like she’s open to FSMism being taught right alongside the other two isms.
~oïo~ FSM
I feel that this board is offensive towards me. Now what?
hunting is offensive to vegetarians. lets just gather stuff, packrats FTW
Do we have the phone numbers for Mr. O’Reilly and Ms. Reddout? They might be interested in arguing our point that FSMism and the views on creation of religions other than Christianity be taught.
I’m putting this in somewhat childish terms, but there is evidence all around us that we can see and touch (and smell and taste, if we’re so inlcined) that supports the scientific theory of evolution. Fossils, fruit flies, bugs in amber, peas, etc, etc, etc. We can all see this evidence if we look. Evolution is a fact.
Why is it that so many humans would choose to believe in a god or gods that can never be seen and are never heard, to the exclusion of scientific evidence supporting other ideas? Answer: because a lot of people are lazy, ignorant, irrational, and/or insane. There is no reliably recorded instance in which a deity has publicly proclaimed its presence in a booming voice, are has gone strolling down a street for everyone to see. Perhaps “the lord works in mysterious ways”, but I don’t. If god doesn’t have the decency to present itself to me objectively in all its anthropomorphic glory, then I have no reason to believe it exists. This also applies to unicorns, rational fundamentalists, and 40 foot dildos.
And by the way, there is a strong distinction between theories regarding the origin of life and evolution. Evolution is a fact (have I mentioned that?)
While we introduce ID, why not bring in other less-than-scientific theories. We could spend tax-payers’ dollars on having our kids learn Astrology as required curiculum. Or Ether theory. Or whatever. After all, those have just as much “science” behind them as ID.
Here’s an interesting tid bit published in WIKIPEDIA under the intelligent design entry.
Political appointees at NASA have prohibited their scientists from publicly discussing the any data which is explained by the age of the universe because it would contradict the biblical version of the universe’s age.
Further, government climatologists are forbidden from discussing their data regarding global warming because it may reference data tens or hundred’s of thousands of years old.
Don;t you feel relieved we have an evangelical christian in the white house.
I can only imagine this is going to end up like Roe V. Wade where it will ultimately end up in the hands of APPOINTED Supreme court judges. The question is whether or not the appointer is smart enough to to nominate those who recognize the danger of blending religion and state affairs. FSM help us all!!
I just sent them an email, voicing my opinions. I sure do hope that they read it!
Obviously very few people in Polk County watch “NOVA”, otherwise they wouldn’t be blindly setting themselves up for complete, total public embarrassment and humiliation. They are taking up the mantle from the Kansas School Board of Laughing Stock Of America. Ironic, isn’t it, how those supposedly in charge of education have such panache for learning nothing…
This school board should be congratulated for taking up the ID banner, and championing the right of their students to be exposed to competing viewpoints. Vive le Difference! How else can this commitment to fearless educational values be implemented?
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1. All classroom instruction should be bi-lingual, so that students can be equally exposed to both English and Spanish, free to make up their own minds as which they believe is most correct for completing assignments and use in their adult lives.
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2. Science teachers will “teach the controversy” between Alchemy and Chemistry, giving equal time to both in Chemistry units. Chemistry is merely the secular offshoot of Alchemy, which enjoyed a long and respected tenure in European history. Many notable and pious men were alchemists, which is good enough for me. In order to Leave No Florida Child Behind, students will be exposed to the periodic table of elements, but advised that it is by no means complete, and therefore, of dubious value. They will also be required to transform lead into gold for their final exam, and provided with 17th century translations of medieval occult texts as transmutation “bibles”.
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3. Music students will no longer be constrained to learn “music theory”. Since Western classical music is offensive to some, each student will have the option to construct an independent study which best conforms to his or her existing taste. Southern US composers such as Toby Keith and Trick Daddy will be given equal consideration with French elitists such as Claude Debussy or Joseph-Maurice Ravel.
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4. Math students will no longer be limited to “theories” they may find offensive, such as “Algebra” (developed by Muslims!), “Game Theory” (why are they playing games in school?), “Homology Theory” (keep our kids safe from these perverts!), “Proof Theory” (can they prove it or is it just a theory? Liberals are so stupid!).
You know intelligent design is just the beginning. Everyone needs to realize that all scientific theories are “only theories”. Don’t we also need a theory of intelligent electromagnetism and intelligent gravity?
For EM isn’t it just as likely that AC current coming out of a generator is a result of FSM’s wrapping the armature of the dynamo shaft in his noodly appendage and imparting spin to it the same way you or I would impart spin to a yoyo.
Also since electromagnetism is only as theory, perhaps one of the Xtain fundamentalist proponents of “Intelligent Electromagnetism” will have no problem french kissing a 220v socket. Waddya think?
I just wanna know. When are we gonna appoint Dr Zaius as Presidential science advisor?
Intelligent design is pseudoscientific way to say “God did it”. Its like calling water Dihydrogen monoxide.
Well, I propose we change from ” The flying Spaghetti monster did it” From noddly design. Or Pasta method. Or something like that. Let them know they have competition. Oh, and one more thing. These guys actually call Inteligent design a scientific theory? WTF! You can’t read science in the bible!
What really gets me is that, without the the science developed in the past few decades, most of the modern day luxeries that allow teaching of modern standards wouldn’t exist. And yet they still decide against teaching a proven scientific theory. Eh?
You can have my academic endorsement. I am a physics graduate student/teaching assistant, so I can endorse both as a scientist and as an educator. Unintelligent design makes much more sense than ID, so I don’t see how they could refuse to teach UD if they agree to teach ID.
Any advice on how to write the letter to the board? I’m woefully terrible at writing, and would probably make the situation worse if I wrote it on my own.
Of all the things in here that me balisstic about the Fundies, I think the Vitter thing is the worse. Imagie, a whore hopping, republican senator from Virginia looking to divert $100k of all of our money in a huge appropriation bill to fund a fundamentalist attempt to undermine American science education, by diluting it with this intelligent design gargage.
Using federal monies to subsidize an attempt by American primitives to force their religion down the throats of all of our children.
What a POS. Nornally, I would be tolerant to the public sexual indiscretions of this person, but maybe we should do whatever we have to to get him and Larry (Wide Stance) Craig out of our nations most deliberative body.
Do you want to know the really weird thing about this?
My wife is Polish. She grew up in Poznan during the bad ol’ days of communism. And generally speaking, it’s hard to find a more religious country then Poland. Catholicism got it’s people through Communism and was a keystone in Solidarity. The churches are standing room only on sundays.
…Yet, the idea of not teaching science in a science class is astounding to her. She is truly scared of some of the fanatics in this country. We might be moving in the next year or so, and that’s one of the big worries. That we will end up moving to the middle of wingnut land.
The thing you have to know is is that these ass-flying japes on the school board didn’t run on a campaign of bringing ID into the school curriculum. These people undoubtedly lied about who they were and what they would do once elected. A few years back I ran into a program that detailed how a PAC led or funded by Pat Robertson’s church (empire) counseled on how to get yourself elected to a school board, so you could ram this shit down everyone’s throat.
The key piece of advice was LIE. PORTRAY YOUSELF AS A MODERATE, CONCERNED PARENT WHO WANTED NOTHING MORE THAN TO INSURE GOOD ORDER WAS OBSERVED IN THE CLASSROOM, QUALIFIED TEACHERS AND ADMINISTRATORS WERE IN PLACE, AND GOOD FACILITIES AND TEACHING MATERIALS WERE AVAILABLE TO ALL.
Then, once elected, bring out the fundamentalist artillery. That the reason why after they get elected, show their true colors, they get defeated by landslides in the next election.
Pity our kids have to take bullets in the culture war, fired by these idiots.
Hello, first off i’d like to say i agree ID shouldn’t be taught in school. But aren’t all of you athiests (soory Pastafarians) being equally arrogant as christians. Saying that the universe wasn’t created by an omnipotent being is equally arrogant as saying it definatly was.
I remember a few years back, the Southern Poverty Law Center, bankrumpted a chapter of the Klu Klux Klan that incited some of its members to murder a young black man. Apparantly, they sued and won millions in Federal court, seized all that Klan assets and put the SOB’s out of business.
Perhaps some of us should investigate suing some of these ID people on school boards. If it were no longer “penalty free” to tie up public resources to debate the ludicrous proposals of these “Trojan Horse fundamentalist” board members perhaps that would chill their shit but good.
It’s amazing… i thought this kinda stuff was just a given. sorry.. but i’m aussie, and… we’re talking about state schools?? last time that was really contested here was back in the late 80s i think…
at the moment i’m writing some article to remove Religious Education from the curriculum all together (in the sense that i doesn’t add any points to you’re end result(i dont really know what you call that in the US)) Across the board of state and private schools, letting it be taught in a purely Historical, Literary, Philosophical and theological sense. school is where you should teach kids how to think. and if the parents want to teach their kids what to think. then the onus is on them.
@Tedd Buckland. The only point being made here is science is about deriving theories based on observing things in the natural world not extrapolating from those observations to posit truths about a realm beyond nature. I can never, ever say for sure these does not exist a realm beyond the one I observe, even if I dont think so. The point is those beliefs are not the province of science. Those teaching evolution but not ID are NOT saying “there is no God, and/or Intelligent Designer” All they are saying is that such speculations (and that is EXACTLY the correct word here) are beyond the ken of science and therefore will not be taught in a science classroom.
What is dangerous about ID is that by insisting it be taught in a science classroom , it equates what is metaphysical (speculative) thought with what is empirically verifiable scientific thought, and presents it as such to young impressionable minds. It is in effect co-opting state sponsored science education for purposes of evangelism.
@ted buckland : contrary to the christians we pastafarians do not say that the universe was not created by an omnipotent being. What we say is we do not believe that the universe was created by an omnipotent being.
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There is a huge difference : the difference between being arrogant and not being arrogant
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Ramen
@Ted,
There is a difference. There is solid scientific evidence for Evolution. Intelligent design, on the other hand, has no scientific evidence supporting it. The only “evidence” for ID comes from a religious text. Church and state need to remain as separate as possible.
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If Evolution is offensive to people, tough shit. The truly offensive thing is the ID proponents trying to put church stuff in schools. If they’re offended by science, they should go live in a cave, wait for the end of the world, and leave the educational system alone.
@ted buckland: a couple small issues: everyone is entitled to a position that involves faith. The arrogance comes when you try to force your faith on others, and, worse, usurp the power of government to do it. It may or may not be a side issue that Pastafarians DO SO believe that the Universe WAS created by an omnipotent being: it just wasn’t Yahweh, it was the FSM.
@neal: both your implicit suggestions sound good to me. We might even be telling the truth by saying we were moderate, concerned parents who wanted good order, qualified teachers, and adequate facilities. And want to be treated by MD’s who have studied biochemistry rather than Bible Biology, LOFLMAO.
some great/superpowers in history
ancient egypt: varying in strength from 4000bc to the point it was captured by the romans(alexander hardly counts)
persian empire:
history taught us they were very mean against the greek, broke apart after Alexanders conquests
macedonian
empire:
greek states at their cultural peak basicaly, lead by Alexander the great, broke apart after his death
china:
powerful through almost all of history though very small area of influence (perhaps a winning concept?)
roman empire(dictator lead):
lead by a strong leader waging war across the world and a senate that complianed about it (I believe that United states founding fathers had this in mind when they wrote the constitusion)
declined in strength in about 400ac due to a number of reasons, still open for discussion
Charles the great’s empire (early france):
almost the same as alexanders empire only in france and in the 500Ac(after the romans anyway), broke apart of the same reasons
ghengis khans emipre:
again, a great leader capturing a large chunk of land and then dies and everything goes back to normal
English empire:
often said to have gained the greatpower status with the destructon of the spanish armada of 1588, considered to have lost its leading role with the end of ww2 due to the growing might of USA
nazi germany:
gained power in 1933 due to dissent in the german population lost it in 1945 because they failed to fight of most of the world while destroying its own population
soviet union:
gained superpower status in 1945 because of the the destruction of their main enemy. It was lost at 1991 (I think) mainly because the russian president found out that he would have more power if it didn’t exist
USA:
the only superpower most consider these days, gained superpower status with the invetion of the atomic bomb.
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and now to the purpose with this brief history lesson:
what will cause the US to sieze being a superpower? history has shown us that it will inevitably happen(well, with china as an exception)
it is not likely to sieze with the death of a leader, plenty has died already and no change.
then there is the possibility the world gets mad at US and decides to conquer it.
then there is the most likely possibilites that the power will diminish over several years due to slower economical and sientific progress and fade away into the shades of history.
Now, before I appear as terrible anti american I’d like ask this:
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will it diminish faster or slower if the US is turned into a christian Iran? where religion is used as an measure to control large uneducated masses
my personal guess is that if these things decribed in OP happen on a grand scale, the illegal mexican immigrant problem would stop or possibly reverse in the matter of decades, do the future mexican taxpayers a favor: don’t let these things happen
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(I am now appearing as anti Iran but I guess there are not that whole lot Iranians that would read this, none that would take any offence anyway)
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any corrections on the historic data (or any at all) is appreciated, noone is perfect
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Ande
@neal Dec 1st, 2007 at 2:22 am
“What is dangerous about ID is that by insisting it be taught in a science classroom , it equates what is metaphysical (speculative) thought with what is empirically verifiable scientific thought, and presents it as such to young impressionable minds. It is in effect co-opting state sponsored science education for purposes of evangelism.”
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RAmen neal
@perna de pau Are you saying you don’t believe the FSM created everything? Blasphemy!
It seems obvious that trying to use *logic* against someone who has *faith* that God did everything AIN’T GONNA WORK. Instead, educate them about His Noodliness. They will be much more open to this line of reason, as it is their own, at which point they may begin to doubt their own beliefs.
Do what’s right and fight to get FSMism taught in public schools, don’t fight to take away ID.
I’m more likely to convince my cat with logic.. his mind is a product of pure natrual observation.
Just dropped the school board a line.
Lacking Bobby Henderson’s fine analyical mind, and his first hand experience with divine revelation, I copied his letter to the Kansas school board, with a couple of minor changes.
Hope that helps them out.
@ted buckland
Hello, first off i’d like to say i agree the Easter Bunny shouldn’t be taught in school. But aren’t all of you Chickenists (soory Eggatarians) being equally arrogant as Bunnites. Saying that the Easter Bunny does not exist is equally arrogant as saying it definatly does.
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*cough*cough*BULLSH&T*cough*cough*
It is truly a strange land that many of you fellow pastafarians live in. How strange it is that in many places it seems to be up to the most unlearned to decide what to teach to others.
A case of the blind leading the blind and also others that have vision.
Here is something I wrote to them last night, reading it this morning did make me realise it sounds kinda similar in areas to Bobby’s original, but ah well we’ll just see if they say anything.
“Greetings,
I am writing to you after having read of your determination to bring a variety of viewpoints to your regions students, namely the teaching of intelligent design alongside evolution as part of your science curriculum. While I strongly support the belief that students should be exposed to as many schools of thought as is possible, I am concerned that despite your good intentions you may only teach your students one theory of intelligent design, when in actual fact there are many such theories. I, for example, am a member of a religion that believes that the earth, universe and all else that we see and feel was created by the Flying Spaghetti Monster (FSM), and that any evidence to the contrary was set in place by Him.
We have, of course, existed since His creation of everything, but until recently we remained a secretive group. It was our prophet Bobby Henderson who first chose to reveal our presence to the world in his well known open letter to the Kansas School Board. Since becoming pubic Flying Spaghetti Monsterism (or Pastafarianism) has received a number of notable endorsements from the scientific community. However, since all science is manipulated by His Noodly Appendage, their opinions should not be overstated. Evolution itself is only an unproven (and unprovable) scientific theory, so should not be overstated and treated as more than such. As this clearly puts evolution on an equal footing to ID, we would encourage you to consider teaching FSM in your science rooms also, as ours is an equally valid theory.
You may also be interested to know that pastafarians such as myself do not believe in the conventionally established theory of gravity as perpetuated by science today, the reason for this being that once again science has managed to produce a series of observations with regard to how gravity works, but has failed to explain the cause of the force itself. We instead believe in “intelligent falling”, by which we mean that gravity as it has been observed is instead the result of FSM pushing us down with His Noodly Appendages. While it’s true that we don’t have any empirical evidence to back this theory, we choose to follow the precedent laid down by ID proponents, that to establish a theory we do not any observable or reasoned evidence, only the capability to poke holes in the established theory.
You should know however that His Noodly Name may only be preached by those wearing His chosen outfit, full pirate regalia. He becomes angry if we don’t. If you decide that you do wish to educate your students about our beliefs we would be more than happy to instruct you on how to go about this.
While there is much more I would like to say to you about our beliefs and their rightful place in your, nay, the worlds classrooms, I feel it is time to round off, and I can’t think of a better way to do so than with a quote from our prophet himself, extracted from his letter to the Kansas School Board.
“I think we can all look forward to the time when these three theories are given equal time in our science classrooms across the country, and eventually the world; One third time for Intelligent Design, one third time for Flying Spaghetti Monsterism, and one third time for logical conjecture based on overwhelming observable evidence.” - Bobby Henderson
Kind regards,
*. ******, concerned Pastafarian.”
Hope I represented us right, apologies if I missed anything important.
I wouldn’t be so quick to give Frank O’Reilly a Darwin…
“You’re talking about separation of church and state,” O’Reilly said. “I believe in intelligent design personally, but the court has ruled against it. We cannot break the law if it is set down before us.”
I’m a danish pastafarian (RAmen!), and this hardly ever occour i Denmark (if it actually ever has), but is it a big problem in the states? And don’t the government has anything to say, or is each school independent, and can teach whatever they want?
I have mailed the good folk at Polk from the UK, figers crossed that good sense will prevail
RAmen, fellows.
I can’t understand how those people can claim (as they usually do) to be patriots. Because what they are doing is precisely the kind of thing that makes us in Europe think Americans are completely stupid
“I would want to balance it with the fact that we may live in a universe created by a supreme being as well.”
I don’t remember evolution being taught as an explanation for the creation of the universe. Why do these people feel that God is being attacked by the theory of evolution? At no point do I remember my teachers telling me that there is no God because there is evolution. There is nothing that prevents these people from agreeing with it and saying “maybe God created evolution.”
Ted Buckland, (posting Dec 1st at 12:57am) asserts that it is just as arrogant for an atheist to say the universe wasn’t created by an omnipotent being as for someone else to say it definitely was.
I’d debate the “just as” bit, especially in a science classroom, which is the point of this forum. I am with Rene Descartes; that nothing outside of basic mathematical proofs and the existence of one’s own self can be proven with any absolute certainty. But is it ‘just as’ arrogant of me to state the moon isn’t made of green cheese as to state that it is?
That said, if the Fundies are willing to qualify their god as a theory every time they preach to me then I’d be happy to qualify accepted scientific proofs as theories when I mention them.
Actually, let me one-up my own comment.
Which is more ‘arrogant:’ to say
1) “I believe [whatever] to be true based on objective observance and standing my belief up to reasonable scrutiny and critical, empirical experimentation” or to say
2) “I believe [whatever] to be true because God told me so and if God tells you differently, either through divine revelation or through physical evidence, then God is lying to you.”
When will people realize that evolution has stood up to a century of rigorous scientific testing by many and has been consistently proven true, while intelligent design is based upon the beliefs of the individual, can be either true or false, and therefore should not be cast in equal light?
At least they’re a good looking bunch. It is sad that they deny their Maker and all His Carby-glory. It is only when they pass on to the next world that they will realize the error of their ways. For in death, we are all made equally stupid.
“Evolution is offensive to a lot of people.”
So is religion to a lot of intelligent people!
Since when did the definition of science become a democratic process? So, 7 people get to vote on what IS and what IS NOT Science? Unbelievable.
Intelligent Design/Creationism is based on supernatural beliefs and is not empirically testable or compatible with natural law, which is necessary for it to be called a scientific theory or science.
Once more, without the paragraph tags (FSMdammit!):
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@Ted Buckland
Go get your dictionary. Do it now. If you don’t have one, then go to dictionary.com & type in the word evolution. Do you see any part in the meanings that mention anything about creation of the universe or even origins of life?
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Just in case you’ve had any trouble, I’ll give you some help:
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Evolution (ěv’ə-lōō’shən, ē’və-) n.
Biology
1. Change in the genetic composition of a population during successive generations, as a result of natural selection acting on the genetic variation among individuals, and resulting in the development of new species.
2. The historical development of a related group of organisms; phylogeny.
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There. Does that make sense to you now? Evolution has nothing to do with the origins of the universe, or even the origins of life. Darwin made that blatantly clear when he named his book The Origin of Species.
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I find it incredibly arrogant of you to enter an argument without first understanding the details of the argument.
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St John the Blasphemist
Saint of Etymologies
As an intelligent human being, and a person who has cogitated on the subject, I find it inconceivable that Intelligent Design (ID) isn’t also taught in our school’s science curriculum. (you will notice that I can spell - the sure sign of education and “right thinking” or, perhaps, a spell-checker)
Others may disagree with me, but I suspect that they are simply too afraid to face the fact that there is a greater authority and power in this universe. Perhaps it is their attempt to compensate for how truly minute the the average (non-Christian) human is in the grand design of the universe. Perhaps not. Perhaps they are simply obstinate.
Either way, I pity you if you feel the need for such self-aggrandizement. I know my place in the Universe, it is kneeling at the feet of the Creator, giving thanks, and begging for forgiveness. For it is only through forgiveness that I can be rid of these spiders that keep coming out of my skin. And the beaver gnawing at my foot. And only HE can save me from being the next victim of the lemur who is fornicating with a Honda Civic over there in the corner! Save me Jeebus! Save me!! Save meeeeeeee…
I’m writing from Europe, where almost every scientist believes in evolution, but where many of them also belive in god. Here some first thoughts about what your message, darwinian-macroevolution-denying physician
I feel you completely misunderstood something. In theory, science could come to the conclusion of god’s existence and prove it (supposing there is one), and that would be accepted.
What is not accepted in science is explaining something with god: you can’t explain something by something else that is not proven.
And anyway, in most cases, what was thought unexplainable trough science (and was hence ascribed to god) became explainable some time later.
To come to evolution, you may find the evidence is not sufficient. But at least, there is some, and it is growing every day. For ID, there is none at all! And it doesn’t shows there is a designer, it is only built on the asumption some things cannot be explained by darwinism, although they can, so their proof doesn’t work.
@ The Dembskist right above me (unless somebody beats me to a response)
“something scientific that is unexplainable by any scientific means”
I hope another Pastafarian knows how to respond to this, because I am at a loss. Wow, just, wow.
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My main point here is just to say that just because somebody keeps telling you that you are wrong doesn’t mean that they are out to get you, it might just mean that you are wrong.
We should just tell these people that don’t want evolution taught in school that we could mix the theory of ID and evolution together into one class. At the beginning of the course the teacher would just explain how Adam and Eve got to gettin’ it on and then they had kids and their kids had to have incest to procreate and their kids and so on and so until all this inbreeding ended up with the caveman who is a mongoloid retarded inbred version of Adam and Eve. Then go on to real science from there. LOL, might as well since people like these on the board obviously haven’t evolved past the worshipping fire stage. And D.A.M.E.D Physician you’re a coward.
I have emailed them with a proposal:
Dear Polk County School Board Members and whom it may concern,
I am an American who is concerned about the youth of today. My major is psychology, and I currently study at College of the Canyons in Valencia, California. I have noticed that Polk County is inclined to teaching Intelligent Design in science classes. I think this is a great idea, but it would be very biased if only the Christian Intelligent Design “theory” is taught in science classes; because of this, I am concerned. What about other religions? It would only be fair to teach their “theories” as well. Now, I politely ask that other theories such as Hindu Intelligent Design “theory”, Muslim Intelligent Design “theory”, various Pagan design “theories”, and Pastafarian Intelligent Design “theory”. Teaching the Intelligent Design “theories” of every religion would thwart possible lawsuits for unequal representation and save the school district much money in the long run. One could argue that teaching all of these would cost much money and time as well; this is very true. What I propose to you, is that Intelligent Design “theory” have a presence in society, as it is a great part of American culture, but not be taught in government-funded institutions, such as public schools. This is not true for private institutions, such as Christian schools and other private schools, however. A safer alternative would be to teach the history of Intelligent Design “theory” in a social studies or sociology class, as it is both present in history and society.
Any replies would be very welcome.
A concerned American,
Kendrick ********
Know what, I was eating potato chips the other day, and I realized that the markings on one of the chips was the image of The Flying Spaghetti Monster. Clearly, HE has given us a sign, he is real, how can anyone say he does not exist if he engraves his image into a potato chip. Fall down and worship him. It’s a miracle. Pastalulah! Ramen!
I was led to think that science class is about teaching our current understanding of the nature. We are supposed to learn our repeatable observations and retell it using mathematics.
I do not think anyone was teaching quantum mechanics in an 18th century science class because they believed in a wave-particle duality. It was not until the roots were well-established that this topic made it to classrooms.
If in the future it is scientifically proven that a god exists and it is accepted by the scientific community, it would be just logical for the theory of god to be taught.
It should not be expected, however, that some unproven hearsay argument to be taught as a part of science classes. Where is the evidence? Where is the proof? How did it happen? Does it contradict any of the theorems (or laws) that define our understanding of the nature? To be exact, intelligent design terribly fails this test.
Based on that, requesting Snow White and Seven Dwarfs to be taught in the science class would be just as logical.
Xenon
Better late than never. Here is my letter:
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“Hang in there! Fight the good fight!
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We at the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster (CoFSM) support those of you wishing to include Intelligent Design in science curriculum. It is only through efforts like this that we will finally be able to teach the truth in schools. Since I am certain you would never presume that one religious view would be more valid for the ID model than another, I look forward to the day when all creation stories are taught equally in classrooms: Evolution, Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, CoFSM, Buddhism, Norse, Greek, Roman … well, you get the idea. For too long we have catered to the agendas of godless scientists. No more I say!
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For too long we have let them run roughshod over us with their insistence on “evidence” and “peer review”. These are nothing more than the tools they use to keep out the truth. Sure, ID doesn’t have a single bit of scientific evidence to back it, but that’s the whole point! If we let these scientists continue to have their way, they will just go right on insisting that scientific theories be “testable”. Well, they can wrap their “scientific method” in a box and ship it to China! Faith is the future of science. Evidence? We don’t need no stinking evidence!
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Today evolution, tomorrow gravity and that whole heliocentric nonsense.
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Stay strong. You are not alone.”
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-OEJ
It is stuff like what the Polk County school board is doing that leads me to believe Xtainity is dying.
Think about it, between the explanation of the modern cosmologists about the universe being 14.5 billion years old, they explanations from the evolutionary biologist about how homo sapiens was just the last of many intelligent hominid species and he emerged a scant 100,000 years ago. They explanations of the historical scholars that no evidence exists that the jews were ever captive in Egypt, and the freak shows of the child molesting Catholic church clergy, the cruising for gays hookers and/or gsy hookers of the fundamentalist, religion is looking like it explains little and improves our behaviors not at all.
This stuff is the dying gasp of the non-rationalists, already in Europe church attendance is at an all time low, and what is happenin there will spread here. It just smells like a superstition. It feels like a con job perpetated by the “great and powerful OZ” and more and more people are wising up. A site like this would have been impossible 20 years ago, and not jusst because the internet infrastructure was not in place. Not enough people would have had their thinking in a place that would allow them to openly laugh at the preposterous claims of the religionists. We’re there now, and this snowball will only get bigger as it continues to roll downhill.
Hazel Sellers: “Polk County teaches the state standards for all our subjects and I believe will continue to do so.”
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How fucking vague is that? Old robotron here replies to me with just that sentence. That could mean a lot of things, like, “Intelligent Design is already the state standard, and we will teach that.” or “I don’t think Intelligent Design will be taught in science class, but it would be nice.” Keep in mind, this is one of the people who supported it. Politicians sure know how to say something without meaning anything, don’t they?
@Kendrick–you’re right; it’s a political answer. But I have no doubt that she believes ID should be part of the state standards, but is just covering her ass.
Here’s a thought (unworkable perhaps but fun to consider):
What if all the parents who don’t like ID (hopefully the majority) insisted on taking their kids out of the science class and home-schooling them in this particular subject, just like the nutjobs do. Only this time, the science teachers would go with them. The negative publcity for the school would, or should, be a huge embarrassment and earn the board much Kansas-like laughing stock points.
Then, of course, his Noodly Appendage would step in to touch all and save the day. Boy, would I have paid attention if science class had been about pirates, beer and strippers!
RAmen
I still don’t understand how this hasn’t become a national debate. I mean, it is very simple; what sounds the most plausible:
1. Life as we know it changes to adapt itself to the all encompasing enviromental factors it is exposed to.
2. Life as we know it was made in all its current forms by an un-identifiable, all encompasing supreme force.
3. A flying bowl of Spaghetti created all of existence after a night of keg stands on the beer volcano and partying with Chef Boyardee (who died to save our dinner.)
Simple choice for me.
@Boarg – I think it would be possible if the parents asked for the funding for their children to be refunded, as the school gets its funding based on the number of pupils, and then hired the science teachers as private tutors. As less of the funding would be spent on admin costs (one of the parents can arrange that) they could pay for guest speakers from versus fields to talk to the children.
The school would eventually collapse and then they could build a new one.
Every ones a winner apart from the god boxes who lose out entirely!
Greetings all. I am a newbie to the site but had to express my concern to Polk county. I just emailed them this:
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I am writing today to both congratulate and express concern over the recent decision to include Intelligent Design in the science curriculum of Polk County. I agree that children should be exposed to all sides of a scientific debate, but it is my fear you may leave out a theory that is equally as valid as traditional Intelligent Design. I am of course referring to the Flying Spaghetti Monster. I’m sure you all know that the theory of the Flying Spaghetti Monster has much greater support in the scientific community than traditional Intelligent Design. You would therefor be doing a grave disservice to the students of Polk County, and science in general, if you were to leave this ever so important theory out of your curriculum.
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If you wish to include an alternative to evolution in your classrooms, you must include all alternatives. It is unfair to the students if they are preferentially taught only one, they deserve to know all the theories out there and make their own conclusions at the end.
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I trust you will make the right decision concerning what is best for the children, and not yourselves. May His Noddley appendage touch you all.
The more I immerse myself in this the more I am convinced we are in a period much like the “Great Awakening” which happened in 1740 pre-collonial America. During that period, believers lashed back at those who pursued their secular purposes and tried to build a life independent of the prevailing religious authority. For a time it was effective, church membership in Massachusetts rose and everyone became fearful of God;s punishments. The period witnessed one of the most appalling documents every committed to paper in the history of Amnerican literature–”"Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God”. But after a time the movement lost steam. The trend toward secularization continued and that is why America was given a constitution as its ruling document instead of a church covenant.
In short we becam a republic instead of a theocracy because the zealots lost out in the marketplace of ideas.
This stuff will die as well, everytime religious wackos raise the issue, it becomes a freak show, church attendance is declining annually. It’s at single digit levels in western Europe and at 20 percent and dropping in the USA. In short the overall trend favors secularism, and the religious wackos know it.
It explains why they are so shrill. People tend to become shrill when they are in the process of being marginalized.
Ramen Neal….Ramen. I think I’ll send the entire Polk School Board a link to the Judgement Day Nova program on PBS’s website? Maybe that would keep them from pursuing this at all, knowing that they are doomed to fail AND not be re-elected when it is all over.
Knowing several of the residents of Polk County personally, I am not surprised that they embrace the school board’s bias. Intelligence and independent thinking are not the ways of the people, so teaching ID will fit in well there.
I just sent out an email to all the board members, and all who have not should do the same. Just remember: we are not disagreeing with there beliefs, we are just pointing out that other, more tasty theorys also need to be included.
Everyone should E-Mail them if you have not already. ALL theorys need to be included, and ours is as valid as any.
Ramen
Polk county is seriously one county next door to me. People in Florida are retarded.
I don’t even have to email them… I could WALK my happy behind over there in full Pirate regalia and demand that Pastafarianism be taught as well… (Sounds like a pretty good idea, actually…)
Here is the text of the e-mail I sent to Polk Co. school board (bored?).
Dear Y’all,
It is wonderful that you have figured out how to sneak creation beliefs into Polk County schools. Intelligent design, indeed.
Hopefully, the students will learn why humans have an arm that does not work quite as well as the other, why Roger Clemens, for example, can’t pitch equally well with either arm? Humans were obviously on the short end of funding during the design process. Compared to other animals, such as dogs, humans cannot hear as well, and by comparison our sense of smell is rather numb. Humans are among the slowest and weakest creatures on Earth.. How can humans have dominion over all the animals when quite a lot of them can catch, overpower, and eat even the fastest and strongest human? Perhaps the students will also learn why most birds have better vision than any human.
If we are the product of a design process, it is more likely that the designer was an idiot, or else it was a government project..
Otherwise, keep up the good work.
Lots of good comments here, and snarky one’s. I now think I’ll write to them, and their local newspaper, saying things more along the lines of — having carefully read the article and having spoken to religious people I know about the subject, that I fully understand the preceived need to insert fundamentalist-inspired doctrine, poorly disguised as science, into science classes. On matters of how the physical world actually works Christianity has been in retreat for over 500 years and is at a point now where it is clear that every single statement the Bible makes about how the world works, from the sun revolving around the Earth to how babies are made, are wrong. All religions get a good measure of their legitimacy from their ability to explain natural phenomenon, …. and so on, ending with some of the best comments made here, and a link to this discussion.
God bless you all! I was playing basketball and drinking some brews with FSM just the other day and he agrees with all of you. I, on the other hand, do not. How can you deny the TRUTH? It is written, in the good book that God created the world in 7 days, about 3.5 million days ago. Everything that is written in a book is the God’s truth, no prophet would be dishonest about something as serious as a book written by godly men (the holy spirit took over these primitive men - read your bible to support this). The bible is the word of God, not man, so you can trust it with your life (or go to hell - its your choice).
My brother, Mohammad, also agrees with me. Buhhda still doesn’t care either way but we are working on him.
Not all of us lesser gods were around 3.5 million days ago, we had a nice fishing trip and dad created the Earth. We were all pissed off cause it was going to be a joint-venture. I remember that day and regret having to get the universe’s biggest bass (it was a space bass that weighed 3442 gibbots - a heavenly unit of measurement). OH, i am still pissed about that cause I had some good names to hand out. I came back early cause I remembered that I left the iron on and didn’t want to burn down my hut (when your a deity you have to make sure your robe has no wrinkles or people won’t belief you). I found dad on that 7th day enjoying his creation and we got into a big fight. That is when we decided to kill me on this new planet in order to please this newly created man. What an jerk my dad can be if you question him.
So I urge you to disband your belief that evolution is real, it is not! I was there and saw it all. Now you can try to prove me wrong but remember that you will go to hell if you do (i am a god -haaha). So just delete all these files and cancel your domain names because its not working, nor ever work.
Go with God, not man
amen (not ramen you blasphemers)
Sent just now to the Polk Co School Board…
Hello,
It’s interesting to me that a majority of you support teaching Intelligent Design (ID) in addition to evolution. As school board representatives your collective opinion is important enough to make headlines and presumably to set policy, but I doubt that many self-respecting science teachers would even half-heartedly teach ID. I certainly wouldn’t. Standards or no standards, a teacher never has more autonomy than when his/her door is closed and his/her students are paying attention. My tone of voice and eye-rolling could easily discredit the ID theory in the eyes of my students even if I agreed to teach it.
It may provide you some comfort, however, that I often remind my students of how evolution is driven by the “G-enerator O-f D-iversity” (subtle, right?). I challenge students to consider that nature, like matter, probably couldn’t have been set in motion without having been acted upon by some force. But, I’d never suggest that God, Allah, Buddha, Zeus, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster was any more of a plausible “generator of diversity” than the next. No matter what I believe spiritually, the first amendment clearly convinces me. The consideration of anything that is not based upon natural evidence and conjecture as a reasonable theory of origin has no place in any public school in the USA.
If you and/or your parent constituents disagree then there’s probably a market in your area for a lucrative private school. May the “generator of diversity” bring favorable traits to your progeny and their progeny and their progeny’s progeny.
NEA Member and Middle School Science Teacher,
buffal0b1ll
How is that possible that every School Board for every county in the US can decide what will be teach in the classroom?. Not even in Colombia where I live this is possible. Academic curriculum’s should not be a local decision but a national or at least state policy this would prevent the need to fight this kind of initiatives.
Has anyone e-mailed them to point out the legal implications if they were to introduce ID i.e. the fact that a court has already ruled that it violates statutes regarding the separation of Church and State?
@Carlos - Unfortunately ever US state and school district can adjust the curriculum to a degree. There is a certain minimum to teach, but there is much flexibility. I believe that there is a federal minimum as well.
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@bullal0b1ll - They can teach ID, but they should then teach all of the creation stories/myths including the FSM.
They can teach ID if they want BUT NOT IN SCIENCE. Aside from the fact that it promotes specially Christianity in schools (you really don’t think they are going to promote Hinduism, Buddism, Pastafarianism in ID do you?) ID is not a theory. For a hypothesis to be considered a theory it has to be able to be proven or disproven. Since neither is possible in this circumstance then I believe that ID should be relegated to a class where it belongs either philosophy or religious studies. Evolution is taught in science classes because it is a theory and has evidence to support it. As a theory evolution can also be disproven which in many cases. Such as just in the past few years determining that many dinosaurs in fact had feathers and the same bone structure as birds caused the scientific community to re-evaluate the claim that dinosaurs shared their traits with reptiles like being exothermic (which entails hypotheses like heart structure and activity level). Recently we have realized that birds and dinosaurs were more closely related then previously thought teaching us to re-evaluate the evolution of birds.
in pork Conty floriduh we beleves in veri hi standurds of educatshun. its soo obvius that this
planut and us humens too was desined by the lord thy GOD and not thet monki Derwin. inteligunt design shud be teached in evry scool so the kids willl be protectd from impur thinkin. In pork conty if ya can shoot, gut a hawg, chew, spit and race a car you gots all the learnn ya kneed. leeve the evolushun to the egghed commies, who probabbly wrk fer the terrists enyhow. en anothir thing marrian yer sister shud not be aginst the law, cuz ar famly iz proof ther iz nuthin wrng wit that ether, besids my cuzzins is all way to ugly ifin ya now what i meen.
Jimmy-bob — You really ARE from Polk County aren’t you???? We’re neighbors! You should dress up in pirate regalia and distribute propaganda at school board meetings with me.
Ok guys, here it is… I am sending it via smail-mail with a pamhlet enclosed… (and emailing it to the members individually as well)… In case anyone is interested, the next board meeting is Monday.
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December 5, 2007
Polk County School Board
1915 S. Floral Ave.
P.O. Box 391
Bartow, FL 33831
Attn: Kay Fields, Tim Harris, Margaret Lofton, Hazel Sellers, Lori Cunningham, Frank O’Reilly, and Brenda Reddout
Dearest Polk County School Board,
My commendations to you on your decision to include Intelligent Design into your science curriculum! I cannot tell you how pleased it makes me to know that you are doing everything in your power to maintain Florida’s proud position as 29th in education out of our fifty states. As a graduate of Florida’s fine educational system, I have learned not only to speak in complete sentences, but also to read them as well – and it only took me eleven years!
I know many people will criticize you for allowing Intelligent Design to be taught in a science class, claiming it is simply mythology; I disagree. First of all, there are many families who cannot afford to send their children to a private Christian school, where they would most certainly be taught Intelligent Design in place of evolution. By teaching ID in your public schools, you would be providing a service to underprivileged Christian families, as well as to underprivileged non-Christian families who have not yet heard the Good Word.
In addition to the possibility of providing a good moral service to society, I wholeheartedly support the idea of offering controversial viewpoints as every day public school curriculum. For example, in elementary schools across the nation, children learn about the traditions of Thanksgiving. A very common lesson plan is making “A Thanksgiving Day Quilt,” upon which children write about or draw pictures of the things for which they are most thankful. Throughout this project, the children are taught about how the Pilgrims gave gifts of blankets to the Indians for Thanksgiving. The children are not, however, instructed to infect their quilts with chicken pox and give them to other children whose toys they wish to steal. The actual motive for quilt-giving is conveniently left out. This is merely one example of countless fibs and euphemisms delivered to our children on a daily basis. Is this wrong? Of course not! It gives the children motivation to go to (and to stay in) college! Look at all the stuff they haven’t learned yet! (Just wait until they find out George Washington bought his votes with booze!)
Teaching Intelligent Design as science is a fantastic idea; however, as I’m sure you are aware, there are many different theories of ID; to teach just one variation would not benefit students at all. I propose you teach at least two variations of Intelligent Design, which will give your students, about whom you care so much, a deeper and more profound knowledge of the origin of mankind. Please consider the following:
The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster teaches us that, in the beginning, His Noodliness created a mountain, trees, and a midget. Sure, no one was around to see it, but it is explained to us (in great detail) in the Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, our Holy Book. Pastafarianism also teaches that Pirates are the chosen people, global warming is caused by an ever-shrinking number of Pirates, Fridays are Holy Days, and Heaven contains a Beer Volcano and a Stripper Factory. You may be interested to know that there are over ten million Pastafarians worldwide, and that number is rapidly increasing. It is very possible that you may have Pastafarian families in your school district. It would be a shame to have their children confused by a differing theory of Intelligent Design being taught in their science class. For the sake of the children, please consider teaching our beliefs, as well.
Please email them… it’s easy, feel free to steal this canned response:
Hello School Board Members,
I recently read that you’re supporting the teaching of “intelligent design” in schools in addition to evolution…
In regards to “intelligent design”, for a hypothesis to be considered a theory it has to be able to be proven or disproven. Neither is possible in the case of “intelligent design”. Evolution is taught in science classes because it is a theory and has evidence to support it. If you’re going to teach “intelligent design” as a science then you should require the teaching of Pastafarianism as well; how about astrology with astronomy?
The idea of teaching “intelligent design” in a classroom setting is so fundamentaly wrong I find it hard to believe this isn’t a joke. Please don’t indoctrinate future generations of American Youth with the nonsensical, faith-based garbage that is “intelligent design”. Keep religion out of the classroom.
Thanks for your time,
I think we should also encourage the teaching of astrology along side astronomy.
I mean come on, who believes those crazy scientist anyways, Ms Cleo said they don’t know what they be talkin bout.
Dear Polk County School Board,
I am delighted to learn that you have decided to include the theory of Intelligent Design in your science department. I am writing to ask if you had considered all theories that fall in this category. I hope you will be providing classrooms, faculty, and time to teach the theory of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster as well. This is one of the fastest growing religions in the world and must be given a voice in childrens education on the same footing as ID or Evolution. We of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster do not call our theory Intelligent Design and must ask that you change our part of the course description to “Genius Design.” That is the only stipulation I must ask of you. We will of course resort to litigation or formal protest if our religion is not given the same respect and relevance as the aforementioned religion. The Church of the FSM has just as much if not more scientific evidence to back up its theories than ID. I know we cannot compete with evolution on a scientific basis but in this case we don’t have to, do we? I also had some personal wishes concerning classes that must be taught as science classes: The Wizard of Oz(because he also does not want you looking behind the curtain), fairies 101(I have pictures for proof), and Geography of Narnia.
Thank you for your time.
Sincerely, Judas Iscariot.
Discovery’s own manifesto of its aims, the Wedge Strategy Document, clearly outlines inception of ID into science as a strategy to teach religion.
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Wedge strategy