A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider God-fearing and pious. On the other hand, they do less easily move against him, wrongly believing that he has the Gods on his side.
–Aristotle, Politica bk v (ca. 340 BCE)
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An elaborate spoof on Intelligent Design, The Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster is neither too elaborate nor too spoofy to succeed in nailing the fallacies of ID. It's even wackier than Jonathan Swift's suggestion that the Irish eat their children as a way to keep them from being a burden, and it may offend just as many people, but Henderson, described elsewhere as a 25-year-old "out-of-work physics major," puts satire to the same serious use that Swift did. Oh, yes, it is very funny. -- Scientific American
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Gold? Our Aristotle should have won that…
Well, no wonder people like the classic Aristotle are… classics. Not sure they’ve always been appreciated though. Any classical scholars amongst the Pastafarians?
I remember Niccolo Machiavelli saying something similar in The Prince. If I recall correctly, he wrote that leaders should act religious but not be religious, just to be liked by their subjects.
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Sounds like he and Aristotle were thinking along the same lines.
-Avatar of Reason
@Reasonable Avatar Nov 24th, 2007 at 3:18 am: “Sounds like he and Aristotle were thinking along the same lines.”
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Sounds even more like copying the ideas coming from a highly reputed brain…
Ramen, Aristotle. Somehow these tactics remind me of George Bush.
So true, Aristotle. So true.
Darwinfish, you stole my thoughts! Thought-thief. But, yeah. BUSH!
RAmen to all!
Right from this moment, I believe in God.
[evil laugh]
Bush……….. Yaarrrrrrrgh… Ye said the dreaded “B” word.
Couldn’t resist:
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Immanuel Kant was a real pissant
who was very rarely stable.
Heidegger, Heidegger was a boozy beggar
who could think you under the table.
David Hume could out consume
Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel,
And Wittgenstein was a beery swine
who was just as sloshed as Schlegel.
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There’s nothing Nietzsche couldn’t teach ya
’bout the raisin’ of the wrist.
Socrates himself was permanently pissed.
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John Stuart Mill, of his own free will,
after half a pint of shandy was particularly ill.
Plato, they say, could stick it away,
‘alf a crate of whiskey every day!
Aristotle, Aristotle was a bugger for the bottle,
and Hobbes was fond of his Dram.
And Rene Descartes was a drunken fart:
“I drink, therefore I am.”
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Yes, Socrates himself is particularly missed;
A lovely little thinker, but a bugger when he’s pissed.
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St John the Blasphemist
Saint of Monty Python Sketches
History had shown the best way to rule a population is through their religion. Most of Europe has tried to get away from this with their desire for seperation of Church and State, something our founding fathers also wanted. It’s a shame we can’t seem to achieve that in the United States.
Reminds me of Hitler claiming to be a Christian. Probably the exact same thing.
Is that why bush says god speaks to him??
Its the name: he thinks he’s the bush god spoke through. He’s just not on fire……
@Jean Bart
“Sounds even more like copying the ideas coming from a highly reputed brain…”
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You’re right. That does sound plausible especially because anyone who tells people not to be virtuous can’t be expected to be virtuous on their own. Shame on me for giving others the benefit of the doubt!
-Avatar of Reason
Wow. That about sums it up don’t it. You ad in another qoute…
“The gods too are fond of a joke.”
Aristotle
And you have Bush.
It appears that philosophy does strange things - at least around here in my machine. Yesterday, Friday, was the 23rd of November, out hyar in Injun Fightin’ Country - or so my calendar says anyway. Yet the article is listed as having been posted on November 24th, which is Saturday; and the responses are dated the 24th, even though they first appeared yesterday.
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Is the website itself in a totally different time zone; one on the other side of the International Date Line?
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@ St. John the Blasphemist - Is that an original? Anyway, I wish I had seen it back some 55+ years ago, when my Jesuit advisor was critiquing my Bachelor Thesis. (Or do I?) Come to think of it, he really didn’t have all that much of a sense of humor after all. But in any event, it would have been a lively session.
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We might have debated the questions: Is it “IN VINO VERITAS”? Or is it, “EX OPERE VINO CONFABULATIO?”
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Many thanks for posting it.
Just BTW, it’s 7:40 AM around here - on the clock anyway. Is there something about FSM time that is supposed to leave one feeling a bit like . . . maybe Alice coming back through the looking glass, one might say?
Aristotle’s quote actually echos Lucretius who wrote, ” All religion is sublime to the peasant, useful to the politician and ridiculous to the philosopher.” Religion has always lent itself to the politically powerful. It tells the faithful to obey lawful authorities “render unto Caesar. . . ” and those same authorities protect religion and permit it free reign to line its own pockets at the expense of the flock. Diderot said it best, “Mankind will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.” LC
@ Les
You said what it took Heinlien a whole book to say… The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, great read!
@Les - “Aristotle’s quote actually echos Lucretius who wrote…”
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Maybe I am making the wrong interpretation, since this is not my native language, but does that mean that Aristotle is an echo of Lucretius? I am asking because I want to know how that verb functions. Aristotle predates Lucretius by about 300 years.
Wench Cyka,
Really? I need to give Heinlein another go. The first time I started it I got bogged down in the economic discussions–it really is a dismal science. As for religion and tyrants, Christopher Hitchens makes the same point in his “god is not Great” book. (An excellent read BTW) Religion always seems to favor authority. Was it Thomas Jefferson who said “the priest is no friend to liberty”? Its no accident the most of the “thou shalt not”s are directed at protecting the vested interests e.g. “thou shalt not covet”, thou shalt not steal” Even “thou shalt not kill” has the happy effect of dampening resistance. Les
@Old Grouch
No–Monty Python did it first. It’s called the Philosopher Song. The only release I know of that has it is Live at the Hollywood Bowl (video & album).
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St John the Blasphemist
Saint of Making Love In A Canoe
@Old Grouch–I think it’s just a time zone thing. No worries about the whole Alice-through-the-looking-glass feeling.
@St. John–I just your signature. How the hell does one make love in a canoe without falling in the water?
@ rmw, the minutes tend to disagree as well though, the FSM runs on its own time.
@storm petrel–thanks for pointing that out. No doubt the FSM just likes fucking with us. Or maybe somebody has a time machine. I remember a discussion about a time machine on another thread.
@rmw
Making love in a canoe is a line from the same sketch as the Philosopher Song. It’s a reference to American Beer. You’ll find the whole sketch here:
http://newscoma.wordpress.com/category/monty-python/
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St John the Blasphemist
Saint of Non-Australians Who Can Actually Do The Australian Accent Convincingly
I see a lot of reference to Bush. True, he became a born again at the same time re-election came round. Now correct me if I’m wrong; but usually when someone talks to god, aren’t they locked up in an asylum? So why isn’t Bush in one?
And what the fuck would they talk about anyway! Other then getting Bush to commit the atrocities that religious based leaders have often committed (notice it’s always the ones who say they talk to the almighty that do the most damage) in the past, it must be pretty fucking boring!
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Hitler? Interesting, anther arse whole who claimed to be doing gods will. What gets me is that Christians claim he was an atheist. Weird that they would try to paint us with the same brush but ignore the hundreds of religious based tyrants. True he remarked about how easy religion makes controlling people, but he was setting himself up to be worshiped as an Idol! A messenger of god fulfilling his will! These sound more like a biblical figure then an atheist. His practice of uniting people by hate and some feeling of national pride is the same as the Evangelist, screaming his/gods hatred of gays and non-believers at huddled masses who are to week to seek guidance else where and are trying to secure their entrance to a mystical fairy land of mike and honey. They take up the hatred of there preachers to get to the almighty. This warps their view of the world. They would see to guys fucking as a danger to the nation? And would see a nation of founded on secular ideals as “gods’ nation”. We’ve seen this with Mosses and his followers; the atrocities they committed are well documented, and even praised in the bible making a genocidel mania a role model! No wonder they have such fucked up ideas.
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Now some quotes to nail the point? Ok (yes some of these I’ve used before, but that makes them no less valid):
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“Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.” – Seneca the Younger 4 b.c.- 65 a.d.
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“Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet” - Napoleon Bonaparte
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“Those who believe absurdities will commit atrocities” – Voltaire
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“Religion does three things quite effectively: Divides people, Controls people, Deludes people.” - Mary Alice McKinney
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And as the bastard has been mentioned several time already, Lets remind ourselves why he is a cunt!
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“I fully understand those who say you can’t win this thing militarily. That’s exactly what the United States military says, that you can’t win this military.” –George W. Bush, on the need for political progress in Iraq, Washington, D.C., Oct. 17, 2007
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“My job is a decision-making job, and as a result, I make a lot of decisions.” –George W. Bush, Oct. 3, 2007
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“I promise you I will listen to what has been said here, even though I wasn’t here.” -at the President’s Economic Forum in Waco, Texas, Aug. 13, 2002
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“Tribal sovereignty means that; it’s sovereign. I mean, you’re a — you’ve been given sovereignty, and you’re viewed as a sovereign entity.
And therefore the relationship between the federal government and tribes is one between sovereign entities.” –Washington, D.C., Aug. 6, 2004
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“You know, one of the hardest parts of my job is to connect Iraq to the war on terror.” –interview with CBS News’ Katie Couric, Sept. 6, 2006
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“The same folks that are bombing innocent people in Iraq were the ones who attacked us in America on September the 11th.” –Washington, D.C., July 12, 2007
Err… so that would be Americas then George?
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“Oh, no, we’re not going to have any casualties.” –discussing the Iraq war with Christian Coalition founder Pat Robertson in 2003, as quoted by Robertson
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I will not withdraw, even if Laura and Barney are the only ones supporting me.” –talking to key Republicans about Iraq, as quoted by Bob Woodward
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“I know how hard it is for you to put food on your family.” –Greater Nashua, N.H., Chamber of Commerce, Jan. 27, 2000
Bull shit! I put food on people all the time, no matter how many times they ask me not to!
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Do you have blacks, too?” –to Brazilian President Fernando Cardoso, Washington, D.C., Nov. 8, 2001
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“I don’t think anybody anticipated the breach of the levees.” –on “Good Morning America,” Sept. 1, 2005, six days after repeated warnings from experts about the scope of damage expected from Hurricane Katrina
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“I know the human being and fish can coexist peacefully.” –Saginaw, Mich., Sept. 29, 2000
?
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“I would say the best moment of all was when I caught a 7.5 pound largemouth bass in my lake.” –on his best moment in office, interview with the German newspaper Bild am Sonntag, May 7, 2006
Oh! That’s what he ment by coexist!
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“For every fatal shooting, there were roughly three non-fatal shootings.
And, folks, this is unacceptable in America. It’s just unacceptable. And we’re going to do something about it.” –Philadelphia, Penn., May 14, 2001
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“Families is where our nation finds hope, where wings take dream.” –LaCrosse, Wis., Oct. 18, 2000
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“I know what I believe. I will continue to articulate what I believe and what I believe — I believe what I believe is right.” –Rome, Italy, July 22, 2001
Spoken like a true Christian
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“People say, how can I help on this war against terror? How can I fight evil? You can do so by mentoring a child; by going into a shut-in’s house and say I love you.” –Washington, D.C., Sept. 19, 2002
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“I wish you’d have given me this written question ahead of time so I could plan for it…I’m sure something will pop into my head here in the midst of this press conference, with all the pressure of trying to come up with answer, but it hadn’t yet…I don’t want to sound like I have made no mistakes. I’m confident I have. I just haven’t — you just put me under the spot here, and maybe I’m not as quick on my feet as I should be in coming up with one.” –after being asked to name the biggest mistake he had made, Washington, D.C., April 3, 2004
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“The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa.” –State of the Union Address, Jan. 28, 2003, making a claim that administration officials knew at the time to be false
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These two are pricless!
“The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden. It is our number one priority and we will not rest until we find him.” –Washington, D.C., Sept. 13, 2001
But next year…
“I don’t know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don’t care. It’s not that important. It’s not our priority.” –Washington, D.C., March 13, 2002
Right!
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“We found the weapons of mass destruction. We found biological laboratories … And we’ll find more weapons as time goes on. But for those who say we haven’t found the banned manufacturing devices or banned weapons, they’re wrong, we found them.” –Washington, D.C., May 30, 2003
Next year
“Those weapons of mass destruction have got to be somewhere!” –joking about his administration’s failure to find WMDs in Iraq as he narrated a comic slideshow during the Radio & TV Correspondents’ Association dinner, Washington, D.C., March 24, 2004
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“There’s an old saying in Tennessee — I know it’s in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on –shame on you. Fool me — you can’t get fooled again.” –Nashville, Tenn., Sept. 17, 2002
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And lastly (sorry it was soooo long. I realy do think he is an abomination!)
“I trust God speaks through me. Without that, I couldn’t do my job.” –to a group of Amish he met with privately, July 9, 2004.
Ever think he’s going to be remembered more for Bushisms than anything else he did? Although, the stupidity of the ‘war on terror’ (read as ‘protect our oil supplies’) will stand out.
hahahahahaha
It’s Holidays folks…did you see our Supreme Deity with his costume?
Sorry Pluto, I know it’s a bit cruel to pick out the non-fundie typos, but I just couldn’t resist - “a mystical fairy land of mike and honey” made me giggle. Just picturing from your message some poor bewildered guy thrown, slightly stickily, to the evangelists. Oh, and on the Bushisms - can anyone clarify who he means by Barney supporting him, because at the moment I have an image of the president of America taking advice from a guy in a dinosaur suit. Quite apart from the contradiction of a creationist paying attention to dinosaurs, just think of the potential for sabotage if someone else got hold of a costume and started wispering in his ear…
Barney is their dog.
Shame. That’s not quite so funny to visualise. But still rather a worrying concept.
@Jennyanydots–Barney is Bush’s dog. I think I’d rather have the dog running things.
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@Pluto–I loved your reference to the “fairy land of mike and honey.” Makes me think of male strippers and heaven. :-)
Bush is the most stupid person in the world. =9
After him…my neighbor.
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@rmw - Male strippers and heaven! Oh yeeees…
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@Pluto - I promise I won’t touch…=)
@Pluto - Wonderful collection of Bushisms, Thanks for posting them.
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I always got a kick out of the Tonight Show - at least when it wasn’t all re-runs from before the writers’ strike - where Jay Leno used to show us how he actually speaks better Spanish than he does English most of the time. He really should have run for El Supremisimo down in one of the Banana Republics United Fruit Company used to more or less own and operate. He surely couldn’t have done worse there than here.
@Jennyanydots
“Just picturing from your message some poor bewildered guy thrown, slightly stickily, to the evangelists.”
Well if it was Ted Haggard, I’m sure he would smoke some meth in a crack pipe and tuck in!
@Pluto–oh come now, the good reverend has been cured. God has seen to it. James Dobson will testify to that.
Since the other thread is way too full..I have to post it here…
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A dear friend sent me this one =)
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A woman sitting in an Adelaide restaurant suddenly began to cough.
After a few seconds it became apparent that she was in real distress, and two
locals, Kenzie and Bruce sitting at the next table turned to look at her.
“Kin ya swaller?” asked Kenzie.
The woman signalled ‘No!’ desperately shaking her head.
“Kin ya breathe?” asked Brian.
The woman shook her head ‘No!!!’
With that, Kenzie walked behind her, lifted up the back of her dress,
yanked down her knickers and ran his tongue up and down her bum.
This shocked the woman into such a violent spasm that the obstruction
flew out of her mouth and she began to breathe again.
Kenzie swaggered back to his table and took a deep swig of his beer.
Bruce said in admiration, “Ya know Kenzie, I’d heard of that bloody Hind
Lick Manoeuvre, but that’s the first time I ever seen somebody do it
Pam was that from who I think?
@PacificPam–that’s a good one! *lol* We need another joke thread.
@rmw- I wasn’t aware there was a cure for being gay? What is it? Did one of his colleagues put his hand on his head and scream “out devil out!”
And how did Dobson know he was cured? Haggard might have just not found him attractive and that’s why he didn’t suck him off?
@Pluto - yes it is!
@rmw - I have more hahahahahahahha
@ Jennyanydots – “can anyone clarify who he means by Barney supporting him, because at the moment I have an image of the president of America taking advice from a guy in a dinosaur suit.”
Well actual there is, that’s who he thinks god is. Why do you think US foreign policy is such a mess?
Today has been a busy day…I actually had some work to do…weird.
“For every fatal shooting, there were roughly three non-fatal shootings.
And, folks, this is unacceptable in America. It’s just unacceptable. And we’re going to do something about it.” –Philadelphia, Penn., May 14, 2001
*
Pluto, this is where I had to clear the drinks out of the keyboard!
*
What did he do? Give Cheney some lessons on how to aim better? (In this film Ratatouille, an old lady gets some bullets to shoot at the rats, brandname: Cheney!)
Did you see Ratatouille?
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Fcuking awesome movie!
Good movie.
You know, I know someone who tried to kill a rat with a shotgun. Hilarious.
Was she/he a hick?
I’m not sure… it was my property manager’s husband (a couple years ago). I thought there was a mouse/rat in my wall and I called her to see what I should do about it and she told me the story. As far as my wall goes… it turned out to be a great big frog stuck in a paper shopping bag and he was trying to hop out… so all you could hear in the middle of the night was “scratch scratch scratch!” It was so funny. I felt like such an idiot when I called her back to tell her it was a frog.
hahahahahhahaha….You should!
Bush’s IQ is sooooo low.
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How low is it?
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There is only one person in the world with a lower IQ. A singer named Smears or Beers or something like that.
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I don’t make them up. I pleg..er..plager..er..steal’m.
@Seeker of the Truth–at least Britney isn’t in charge of running a fucking country!
Speaking of shotgun overkill, there was an article in the paper the other day about a guy down here trying to change his tire. He couldn’t get the last lug nut off, so he decided the easiest way to free it up would be with, you guessed it, a shotgun, at point blank range. They didn’t say if he succeeded in loosening the nut, but he did succeed in peppering himself, head to toe, with #6 shot. He was in ICU as of the printing of the article. Stupid people.
@ rmw- I think it was Fahrenheit 911 when Britney said “we shouldn’t question our president” I think a lot of people in 1930’s Germany had similar ideas?
@Pluto–no doubt Britney got a medal for that little remark. Who needs democracy, right? I can’t wait til next January when this administration will be GONE!
@rmw- She did take the piss out of herself for that comment on the Jack and Karen show (known by some as Will and Grace. You know? The US rip off of Gimme, Gimme, Gimme!).
But then that girl is so flip floppy that a court decided K-Fed was a better parent than him.
In Birt news of interest is this little gem.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/7112929.stm
And
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/7114439.stm
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Now can you guess what my comment to the BBC was?
After reading I’m sure some of you will ask the same thing.
@lilwench Nov 26th, 2007 at 6:06 pm
“Barney is their dog.”
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“In 2006, the dog shit Bush parade is still going strong. Police say they are completely baffled as to who might be responsible….
Legal experts claim there’s no law against using dog shit as a flag stand, although Federal legal analysts warn the Constitution is vague on the issue.”
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Halfway down the page…is that Barney?
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rotten.com/library/culture/dog-shit/
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(add www ….the @#*% link wouldn’t post)
@Wench Nikkiee–LOL! Great article. Poor Barney. He looks like he was being molested. Incidentally, one of my coworkers just told us a story about watching a guy taking a dump in the middle of the street. Ah, only in Romania. (And yeah, what the hell is with this website and links? Very hit and miss.)
@Pluto - What do you mean by Jack and Karen Show? hahahahahahahahaha That show was amazing.
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I don’t even want to talk about Britney…I feel that my IQ might drop a few points
@PacificPam- They where to only real reason to watch that show. Most of the people I’ve talked to about it agree.
Gimme Gimme Gimme was the English show that came years before.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/comedy/gimmegimmegimme/index.shtml
Lynda and Tom are like Jack and Karen, which is probably why those two character are so popular over here, I don’t know about else where.
@Pluto (Not sorry at all!)
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[@Jennyanydots
“Just picturing from your message some poor bewildered guy thrown, slightly stickily, to the evangelists.”]
Well if it was Ted Haggard, I’m sure he would smoke some meth in a crack pipe and tuck in!
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Pluto, were you aware of the Rev. Ted’s denomination?
He is a Crystal Meth-odist.
[fx/rimshot]
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(BTW: the fx was a joke, too…)
@Pluto - I have to agree with you to some point…I don’t know about Jack…too gay for my taste…but Karen was genious…Because of her I love Martinis…
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Because of Carry (Sarah Jessica Parker) I love Cosmopolitans…girly form of martinins…
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I like beer because of……………..I don’t know..cuz it goood!
@pieces o’nine - boooo!
Whaever happened to the Hat Mail campaign?
@pieces o’ nine–*groan* That ranks as one of the worst (best) puns I’ve heard.
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@PacificPam–Hate mail campaign?
I don’t know rmw, when I first came to the site they were talking about a Hat Mail Campaingn ore something like that…Maybe one of the oldes to the site might know….
@Pluto and rmw:
Glad you liked that.
I think it would make a great bumper sticker, except I live too close to the New Life Church in Colorado Springs, and I don’t want my car vandalized!
@pieces o’ nine–you live in COS!!!! So do I. That makes me happy, knowing that there are some Pastafarians balancing out the “funnymentalcases” (as the venerable Old Grouch calls them).
@pieces o’nine- “…I live too close to the New Life Church in Colorado Springs, and I don’t want my car vandalized!”
Are you suggesting that those good natured loving Christians would commit an act of hatefully violence?
@ rmw
Not actually *in* CoSprings, just *too close* to it…
But I was happy to find other Pastafarians posting here from this red state.
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@ Pluto
Suggest, no; certainly not, sir!
Hint, maybe. Imply, infer, even. Perhaps I might go so far as to insinuate. But suggest, never!
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If any of you are stumped on what to get that special fundy in your life this Yule, check out http://www.wearefishermen.com/splash.html. Personally, I can’t decide between “Ghost Rider JC” and “Bend It Like Bethlehem” JC.
@pieces o’ nine–technically, I don’t live *in* COS either. 15 minutes south more like. But still, any Pastafarian helps. And honestly, CO is going more “purple” than “red.” We do have democrats in office. It’s just COS and El Paso county (where Colorado Springs and the surrounding areas are at, for those of you who might actually give a damn) are red, red, red, red, red, red. Remember: God=Good, Democrats=Bad/Satan. (If it weren’t for the mountains and reasonable driving distance for skiing, all hope would be lost for Colorado Springs.)
@pieces o’ nine - Naaaah, I don’t think the fundies are prone to violence….*laughing way too badly*
@ rmw - more suitable presents here - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_pictures/7116728.stm
@Jennyanydots–those are awesome! I especially liked the Pope cologne. :lol:
Happy Holidays to all!
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@jennyanydots - Where do I find one of those “saintly” memory sticks? I’ve been trying to master computers for a few years now. Would it help?
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@rmw & pieces o’ nine - COS used to be such a nice little place to visit; and take one’s guests to see the Garden of the Gods, and the Falls, even the Zoo up by the Broadmoor. Then, on to Manitou Springs and the cog railway; and if time permitted, a drive to the top of Pike’s Peak. Ah! The “good old days” are gone forever!
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I can’t even begin to imagine showing off Dobson’s dump as a Colorado tourist site; but, it has its own exit off I-25, sort of in competition with the Chapel of the 12 Apostles and the 5 Committeemen across the highway a bit at Fly-Boy High. (Pluto does refer to a “Grumpy old dude” on another line; and I’ll accept the description.)
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The old tunnel on the road to Criple Creek closed off, for a road capable of accomodating all the buses headed for the casinos, and . . . . Enough already! Getting old, and bringing up memories, is out of fashion these days.
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Anyway, snow on the back range - not really enough, but still a beautiful backdrop to sunset the past few days - and the City and County Building all lit up again, things aren’t altogether bad at that. Hope you both have a wonderful Holiday Season.
….I was wondering if somebody like Machiavelli might have written about the tyranny of phony religionists, but Aristotle’s remark was more than adequate…
@OG, didn’t realize you were a Coloradan; fled the Springs some years ago for less righteous climes, myself. I always enjoy your scholarly and balanced comments and appreciate them more, now I understand a component of your Grouchiness, LOL.
I don’t know what to say here.