NOVA’s most recent program is about the Intelligent Design debate over the last few years. They’ve put together an excellent companion website, and as of November 16th, you can watch the entire program online – I highly recommend it. NOVA always does a fantastic job on their programs and this is no exception.
My one criticism is that they neglected to mention the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster’s role in the Intelligent Design vs Science debate.
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An elaborate spoof on Intelligent Design, The Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster is neither too elaborate nor too spoofy to succeed in nailing the fallacies of ID. It's even wackier than Jonathan Swift's suggestion that the Irish eat their children as a way to keep them from being a burden, and it may offend just as many people, but Henderson, described elsewhere as a 25-year-old "out-of-work physics major," puts satire to the same serious use that Swift did. Oh, yes, it is very funny. -- Scientific American
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Stupid people
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I want to go to Africa and pet one of the dinos.
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the scary part is that in most of the bible belt states evolution is tolerated, but he kids are ’shown’ the truth and thus the ignorance continues. its hard to argue with someone whose answer to everything is ‘because god says its so’, they argue about logic and science but when it comes down to it that is the only ‘proof’ they have of their beliefs, and they refuse to even consider anything else because that would be against gods will. BTW i was told that I would be killed by god if I denied him, that was 20 years ago, and I am still waiting. I love ‘fundies’ they provide much entertainment.
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You should all check out this new movie by Ben Stein… it’s called expelled… http://www.expelledthemovie.com
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Yeah–I put it onto a disc when it ran in case they mentioned FSM…kinda bummed that they didn’t.
We’ll miss you on Thursday, Bobby! Gonna be back for Christmas?
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Stewart?
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Great NOVA video once again. I have even tried to start the debate on facebook’s government + religion = disaster group. And yes it was satisfying to see that the ‘fundies’ were basically pasting over ‘creationism’ with ‘intelligent design’ and it was poetic justice that evolution observed an intermediate ‘cdesign proponentsists’. simply priceless! keep up the great work NOVA.
http://utm.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2208192963
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@rmw – No. I’m about 60 miles North up the road, out in Aurora. Not quite 50 years ago, I was stuck in the Springs for a couple of years, as it was the District HQ for the job at the time. Things were bad enough back then, let alone now with Dobsonism fouling up the place.
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I go back to the days of Harvey Springer, out in Englewood, and the guy old Walter Winchell used to call Gerald L. KKK Smith – pre-Phelps Kansas “star”, back then – and lived for years just a few blocks up and over from Goff, and the “Soldiers of the Cross” mini-militia outfit – the one that finally managed to attract the attention of Alcohol,Tobacco, & Firearms with a cache of sub-machine guns at its “training camp” up by Evergreen – in Denver. One of the old “Flat Earth Society” (Assembly of God)Preachers and text writers was married to my Mother’s girlhood chum; and I got more than my fair share of “Revivalism” every time he showed up in town. So, I must admit, my view of the Je$u$ Bu$ine$$ is rather skewed, to say the least.
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Ah! Yes! Haggard. Did you follow up on his insistence that he be given more – for tuition, etc., while he “studies to be a counsellor” – after he managed to hook them for over $140,000 to “retire” from the Pastorate? That was hilarious! As was Dobson’s pronouncement about 100% heterosexuality after 2 WEEKS of “counselling”. I shrunk heads for some 45+ years myself; and that was certainly a “miracle”, if ever funnymentalism produced one!
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If you have time, you might want to take a look at – the http:// stuff you’ll have to provide yourself, since this machine doesn’t do hyperlinks – where some other ramblings are gathered. Email to “dickenslaw@myway.com” should get a reply, if I can get them to take the password, that is.
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What’s a good old Colorado boy doing in Romania? Take care there. I’m being – rather literally – dragged off, to lunch.
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Holy Crap! This paragraph from the laughable dino-expedition is horrible!
“Not forgetting our greater Mission as Christians, we also stopped at villages along the way to spread the Good News. We relied on Po’s expertise in witnessing to animists (which, he informed us, are still shockingly prevalent in some remote areas of China) and had much success in bringing the light of Christ to that dark land. This tried Stubbingwicke’s patience, as he made a point of letting us know every time we stopped the Land Rovers to go into a village with our Bibles. It was now quite clear that Stubbingwicke was stricken with a stubborn case of the mental disease of Atheism and that he might prove a hinderance to our research. Nevertheless, we witnessed to many natives unfamiliar with Jesus, as well as some whose only contact had been with Catholic Missionaries soft on Evolutionism. After setting them straight, we continued on our journey.”
So now creationists have labeled not only homosexuality as a ‘mental disease’ but also atheism! So atheists are mentally ill! I can only assume that me, as an agnostic is merely going insane! It also strikes me as strange that such a statement seems crazy to me – who is merely just a crazy person.
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Guess this site doesn’t like website addresses any more than the Rocky Mountain News does. Wiped out the reference to, “reflections in a jaundiced eye . info”, that should be there. (I;ll try it in quotes, and see if it passes, no spaces, of course; but I’ll “cheat” there too.
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The thought of scientists coming forward to try to give credence to ID theory makes me ill. As a scientist and bio-chemist it offends me to no end. There is no legitimate science behind the theory that conjectures with evolution, not matter how they try to mince words and dress it up. The only thing that is worse is that these people are teaching science at Universities. If you can’t use reason to look at the science presented you should not be allowed to teach it.
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@Logical thinkarrgh, I think we’re all going nuts here. (Twitches)
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The problem is that they use misinterpretations of science to convince people who don’t know any better, the same way as they use the 2nd law of thermodynamics, which actually has less proof than evolution, but there you go.
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No the problem is they out and out lie! As this documentary, and all the other things I have seen from the religious, shows they are the ones who use dirty underhanded tactics, they send a man death treats for up holding the law. They really are utter cunts!
“He who believes in absurdity will commit atrocity”
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@Old Grouch–Yes, the whole Ted Haggard thing was quite amusing. I particularly loved the whole meth thing. No doubt he was buying it to make sure innocent children didn’t get any. And when he came back saying he needed more cash. Classic!
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And this old (young) Colorado boy (actually, girl) is currently interning at the US embassy in Romania. They have their own issues with religion here, but not so much on issues of faith. It’s more like they’re pissed off at the Orthodox priests who collaborated with the secret police during the “good old days” of communism, and then deny, deny, deny.
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When I go back home, and can actually use my credit card without fear that it’ll be rejected since I’m in Bucharest, I plan on supporting the CoFSM and buying a few things. Always nice to stick it to the uber-right wingers back home. :-)
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@ rmw- “@Old Grouch–Yes, the whole Ted Haggard thing was quite amusing. I particularly loved the whole meth thing. No doubt he was buying it to make sure innocent children didn’t get any.”
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Did he get sucked off by a rent boy for the same reason?
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http://objectiveministries.org/antioccult/
“Whether it be the challenge of exorcising demonic possessions or simply the act of shooing away a gaggle of neighborhood Druids eyeing my cat, Milton, with perverse hunger, I have answered the Lord’s call to engage in Spiritual Warfare against Satan’s minions, and my answer is: “Bring it on!””
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This guy is my new hero!
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“Kirk Cameron and Ray Comfort of Way Of The Master Ministries managed to infiltrate a coven of Druids [Druid segment removed; see update below] and secretly record their creepy full-moon rites with hidden-camera glasses. Kirk and Ray narrowly escape unsacrificed when one of the Druid High Priests suspects Kirk of taping their conversation. By God’s grace, Kirk was able to trick the High Priest into thinking he wasn’t on tape. Listen as the High Priest — speaking freely and without the normal subterfuge that characterizes Druidism — explains how their false, Occultic religion is steeped in licentiousness and a complete lack of Christ.”
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He’s a comic genus!
And remember kids – “Do not attempt a Druid infiltration on your own!” & “some listeners tried to imitate Kirk’s infiltration and wound up being assaulted with tree branches.”
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Assauted with tree branches- fantastic!
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Or how about
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“For the safety of your soul, do not be tempted by the lure of impulse rock chip repair from strangers in parking lots. It may say free, but it could cost you your soul! If you need your windshield fixed, go to a qualified Christian repair shop.”
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So when your Christian brakes down you now know where to take him!
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Long hard sticklike things, sure ‘assaulted with branches’ isn’t just the cover story?
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@ storm petrel- A cover story for what? Being raped by Druids?
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Since when do the druids have to have anything to do with it? I was thinking more along the lines of the number of fundie preachers falling out of the closet around the time Ted Haggard did.
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Okay, that last post didn’t work. So, just copy and paste these links if you’d like. One’s a link to my blog with a news article from the local paper on the Haggard scandal, the other is a really great song entitled “Meth and Man ass.” (Who wouldn’t want to listen to that song?)
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potionsmistres.livejournal.com/17131.html–add http://
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huffingtonpost.com/paul-hipp/meth-and-man-ass_b_33326.html–add http://www.
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@Pluto–no doubt the good reverend did what he did “for the sake of the children.” Look, nobody is perfect, but you make a damn bigger fool of yourself when you pretend to be so.
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“but you make a damn bigger fool of yourself when you pretend to be so.”
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Who me? Dyslexic manic-depressive? Nothing perfect about me.
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Haggard wasn’t practicing what he preached making him a hypocrite!
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Also a criminal!
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Meth does burn holes in your brain, could explain abit about him…
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I’m feeling some tension…
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What is going on?
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http://objectiveministries.org/antioccult/halloween.html
Sorry to go on about this guy but I think he is amazing.
“While many Christians correctly see Halloween as a time of occult dangers – when Satan is out in force trying to corrupt our society – they overlook the fact that all things are created by the Lord for a purpose. So what is the purpose of this dark time of the year?”
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This from a guy how looks like Herman Munster!
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“Consider this: At what other time of the year do throngs of unsaved children come to your door, begging for you to give them a treat? Why not use this unique opportunity to give these deprived children the best treat of all – the treat of Christ’s Love and eternal Salvation?”
Do you think his house is covered in egg once a year?
“These unsaved trick-or-treaters – innocent children tricked by secular society and their non-Christian parents into participating in occult rituals”
See it’s the parents who are to blame! Not being a Christian makes you an automatic devil worshiper!
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Best bit?
“It is important that we acknowledge that there are certainly lots of anti-Christian activities that go on during Halloween, including obvious and blatant things such as the reveling in demonology but also subtly subversive things such as “bobbing for apples”, which is really a symbolic re-enactment of the Fall.”
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Ok how the fuck does bobbing for apples represent the fall, other than apples are involved? Could any god box’s out there explain that one to me? Are all apples off limits?
“”BOO! I’m John the Baptist, and these are my many exciting exploits…””
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@Pluto Nov 20th, 2007 at 4:23 pm: “…Ok how the fuck does bobbing for apples represent the fall, other than apples are involved? Could any god box’s out there explain that one to me? Are all apples off limits?…”
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And nowhere the bible mentions apples, only fruit. Has to do with apples having been an erotic symbol in some cultures.
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@storm petrel- “Meth does burn holes in your brain, could explain abit about him…”
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Like how forgot that he was anti-gay and pro family?
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Bending your head down into the bowl of water perhaps? If he’s really looking hard for something it might be that you close your eyes while bobbing then open them once your head is out of the water, with an apple, eyes closed, before the aple of knowledge was eaten, eyes open, after it was eaten.
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Apple update:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_%28symbolism%29
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@ Pluto, or how he forgot the meaning of the word hypocrit. I’m pretty sure it’s in the bible somewhere that hypocracy is bad, obviously not as bad as admitting that sexual preference is something you’re born with, but anyway.
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I remember the other ministers had a talk with him, when they came out they said he had been cured of his homosexuality!
Do you think he sucked them all off too?
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@storm petrel- “or how he forgot the meaning of the word hypocrit.”
No I think he was following the example of his deity. The one who wants the unconditional love of every one in the world, but won’t give the same in return.
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You’d have to wonder, if god was real, how many mental illnesses he’d be diagnosed with.
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I posted it on another thread…hahahaha
@Pluto – I got the web cam thingy working! Ha! I am so fucking smart….
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@ storm petrel – well, on the grounds that god can do and be everything all at once, how about all of them. Patricularly the ones that contradict each other (agrophobia and claustrophobia, for example). Might explain some of the general mixed-up-ness of the fundies, anyway.
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Ahhh…Ted Haggard!
Just reminded me…haven’t posted or watched this for a while (:))
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Dawkins Versus Haggard: the Python Edition
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEcEwPszfrE
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@Pluto–”I remember the other ministers had a talk with him, when they came out they said he had been cured of his homosexuality!
Do you think he sucked them all off too?”
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Wouldn’t surprise me.
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Also @ Pluto–they’re pitching a fit about apples? Seriously, couldn’t they at least freak about a more suggestive fruit, like bananas?
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I remember that. Haggard is such a stropy bitch.
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On another note, I haven’t watched this clip yet, (just came across it), but have been following the postings and comments on movie blog here and there.
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Expelled’ Movie: The Extended Trailer
http://richarddawkins.net/article,1878,Expelled-Movie-The-Extended-Trailer,RichardDawkinsnet
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The movie blog is…ummm…*interesting*…for want of a better word!! Very heated discussions and it appears an endless stream of rabid fundies posting there. :)
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Last post by Ben Stein on the blog:
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Darwinism: The Imperialism of Biology?
http://expelledthemovie.com/blog/2007/10/31/darwinism-the-imperialism-of-biology/
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These type of posts and the subsequent discussions have been running hot there for the past few months.
Is it possible this blog is a clever media wind up for a satirical movie on ID? Or is that just wishful thinking?
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@ rmw- Or a pair of melons?
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Pluto
“I remember that. Haggard is such a stropy bitch.”
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Yeah :))
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@ Wench Nikkiee- Re: http://expelledthemovie.com/blog/2007/10/31/darwinism-the-imperialism-of-biology/
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I have posted my two pages just now! Must get back to my Pam’s e-mail now
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Apparently my post is “Awaiting Moderation”. Once again they need the opportunity to censor what they don’t like, wile On the CoFSM anyone can post what they want to!
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For the sake of ego here it is (actually cos I hate the idea of spending time writing something and it not being seen!).
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Pluto Says: Your comment is awaiting moderation.
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November 20th, 2007 at 10:21 am
Wow some real idiots on here.
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So you want a little evidence of evolution?
Try this: The fossil record! We can see the steps between life forms. We have fossils of animal that bear characteristics of fish and amphibians, amphibians and reptiles, reptiles with mammal like reptiles EST. I wont bore you with details just look in a museum! The fact (and this one is a fact, the fossil record shows what was even if you ignore links to what comes later) that there weren’t any flowers before pollinating insects?
You seem to lack a basic grasp of biology.
If all this is to confusing or distressing for you (you may have a phobia of museums) then go to your nearest farm. Do these animal, who are totally unsuited to life in the wild, bear resemblance to there wild cousins. Only in general physical out line. A domestic sheep will become trapped if it try’s to clime a cliff face when a wild one would leap effortlessly up it. Look at the cow that is to fat to run compared with a lean and fast ox.
If you don’t see what I’m getting at then let me explain to you, or better yet ask a farmer.
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You see these animals have been bread to have these characteristics by humans. Their ancestors were selectively bread to have more meat and to be easier to handle. Animals with desired characteristics were allowed to breed and pass them on. Those without were killed and normally eaten.
This is un-natural selection. Because humans pick what they want.
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Evolution is ‘Natural’ selection, where the environmental factors weed ok those poorly adapted to their environment.
To use an example: The lion will catch and kill the slowest member of the heard. This individual will not pass on its genetics. The ones that get away will! With me so far?
The farmer will pick the bull that produces the young with the most meat and let it bread. The rest will be castrated or slaughtered, so won’t be able to breed and pass on their geans.
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The same is true for dog, race hoarse and fish breeders. That’s why there are fish and dogs for sale that are as remote from their forbearers as to be unrecognisable. The best part about the comparison with dogs and fish is that breeders document what they do.
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More? How about he second chromosome pair in humans? The one that shows it was originally two separate pairs (luckily we can identify the codes that identify the beginning middle and end of every chromosome of every living thing on earth) The pairs show the correct codes at ether end plus 2 extra ‘end’ bits in the middle and an extra ‘middle’ bit in each too, this shows that it was once two pairs that merged I.E. changed over time. And that’s what evolution is.
You’re ignoring genetic defect and hereditary conditions. You are fools.
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Now to the matter of “Intelligent Design”. Going back to the fossil record there are species in the record that are not here now. I’m not talking about one or two species but whole ecosystems of life that are gone now. Plus none of the animals around today existed 40 million years ago. However animal with similar characteristics were around. Would one of you care to explain? Did your ‘Designer’ change its mind and replace things with new designs?
More importantly, who/what is your designer?
I don’t need a detailed account, just something along the lines of how I pointed out environmental conditions effect the organism in that environment.
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Now to the thing I find most disturbing: Why is it that supporters of Intelligent Design have all have religious links, even the ones who have lied about it and been found out later. How about ‘Of people and Panders’ where the unedited version (before a particular court case) had Creationism (a religious term) replaced with Intelligent Design?
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This is what this is really about: An attack on modern science by an archaic institution.
These scientists aren’t taken seriously because they have yet to show credible evidence.
Don’t get me wrong: Evolution is only a theory. But it fits in with the working of the world and the available evidence. Intelligent design requires you to ignore the evident in front of you.
See, classic religion!
Hug and Kisses
Pluto
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Pluto Says: Your comment is awaiting moderation.
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November 20th, 2007 at 10:39 am
I’d like tocorrect myself Re:”Plus none of the animals around today existed 40 million years ago” This is not true, there are a hand full of “living Fosills” around today such as deep sea hag words, trops est.
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Anything eles anyone feels I should mention?
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Not that I expect they’ll listen, but did you fancy having a go at explaining early hominid evolution to them Pluto? Or even evidence of evolution in modern humans. Mind you, last time I tried that one (explaining the fact that the human form hasn’t adjusted to being upright yet, hence the fact that the pelvis is the wrong shape, making pregnancy and labour much more dangerous than it is inother animals) I was told that it was the pain was a punishment from this all-loving god for Eve doing something wrong, which tends to be a bit of a conversation stopper.
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Mind you – please don’t take this as criticism of what you did write, which covers all sorts of wonderful subjects, and I’m awed by your willingness to take this debate to them.
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@Jennyanydots- I think we have to. Like you said most of what I’ve written will be ignore. Sure this is basic stuff that is overlooked but still a very important point. (Especially the farm animals bit because you can’t deny that without looking like and idiot) If I can make just one of them think about it then I’ve done a good job, because by thinking about it they open their mind to an alternative way of thinking and might just start questioning the absurdity of it all.
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It’s like the guy with the dinosaur above. He use scraps of science (such as mentioning sedimentary rocks) but throws in total lies (IE the earth being 6000 years old and T-Rex being an herbivore).
I think there are those well aware that they are in the wrong, but feel the need to at least pretend to keep up appearances (i.e. Haggard).
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Whether or not a made a difference I tried, which is all I can do.
Notice I was quite restrained with my insults too!
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Good Job, babe!
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I CONVERTED ONE OF MY FRIENDS!!!!
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I’m a converterer! haa! Do I get a medal for my first conversion?
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I usually tend to find human evolution is the real stumbling block. Just because that’s the bit they really don’t want to accept, they grasp around to argue against the whole thing, or sometimes say they can accept it for other animals but people were created intact and haven’t changed since. Requires some fairly tortured logic there, which is why most of them go for the “it’s all wrong” approach, but was slightly concerned that the NOVA website (and I haven’t read it all, or watched the programme, so apologies if this came across better in one of the bits I haven’t seen) seems to have focused very heavily on everything but the evidence for human evolution, as if to make it more palatable to the wavering fundies.
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