NOVA’s most recent program is about the Intelligent Design debate over the last few years. They’ve put together an excellent companion website, and as of November 16th, you can watch the entire program online - I highly recommend it. NOVA always does a fantastic job on their programs and this is no exception.
My one criticism is that they neglected to mention the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster’s role in the Intelligent Design vs Science debate.
The Church is funded entirely by your purchases of FSM merchandise. Thank you for your support.
An elaborate spoof on Intelligent Design, The Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster is neither too elaborate nor too spoofy to succeed in nailing the fallacies of ID. It's even wackier than Jonathan Swift's suggestion that the Irish eat their children as a way to keep them from being a burden, and it may offend just as many people, but Henderson, described elsewhere as a 25-year-old "out-of-work physics major," puts satire to the same serious use that Swift did. Oh, yes, it is very funny. -- Scientific American
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I’ve often wondered why we have a coccyx, why a snake has vestigial hind limbs.
(I can imagine the answer to the snake one - *god left them there as a permanent reminder of the grace from which the serpent had fallen*)
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Also - if god is so damned omniscient, omnipotent etc. and unconcerned by time (he’s outside time, apparently) why didn’t he give us some hint about DNA in the bible?
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Why - “and god created man in his own image…”? Instead of…
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” and god created a sticky goo,
and from that,
he made you! ”
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It would have scanned better!
Sticky goo? like Play-Doh?
@Jennyanydots- no the documentary is very good. It just concerns the trial, which the god boxes lost. Very interesting.
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@PacificPam- Well done babe!
They have yet to post my comments on their shitty site
@ Alchemist- something very disturbing about being made from gods sticky-goo
@rmw - My apologies for not responding sooner; but things manage to pile up from time to time. No chauvinism, or macho “sexism” intended back there when I asked about your being in Romania. Just the old habit of taking for granted that one asks - or thinks - in terms of “he/him” first; which, with some 75+ years of scribbling, hangs on, especially in short, and informal, notes. I really think you have a wonderful opportunity there; and I certainly wish you all the best as you continue your training.
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We had a little of the left-over WW-II animosity loose here too, with the Romanian Archbishop, Valerian, being forced to give up his Jurisdiction, and retire to a Monastery up in Canada, after accusations of his having been a member of Romania’s Fascist Youth Org. As a sort of “counterweight”, we also have the wonderful works of the late Professor, Father Merica Eliade; whose entire writings on religion are MORE than worth the effort to read, and contemplate.
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No offense to our good Pastafarian hosts here; but NOT all Christianity is rooted in bibliolatry, nor is it all - or even in that large a part - given over to such funnymentalcase ideas as “Creation Science” and/or “Intellegent Design” - as a fixed set of propositions - substituting for human growth, discovery, and knowledge.
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Indeed, if I may be allowed to make the observation, a very fine, and scholarly, acquaintance often observes that, “Christianity is a thinking man’s religion”. If anyone finds a paradox there, it might be both interesting and fun to work through.
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In any event, having now been kicked off, and locked out of the Rocky Munchkin News - which offers opportunity for comment on Letters only by “subscription”, and with “approval”,as given by a password from them, which password is now required to even get an email Letter to one of the Columnists through their censors - it is a pleasure to be able to find intelligent people, who are willing to deal with ideas.
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Apropos of which, an old saying: “A University is a student on one end of a bench and a great scholar on the other.” (Back when that was going round, the scholar named was usually Oliver Wendel Holmes; but you choose your own.) However, in Colorado today, the student would find himself, or herself, mighty lonesome out there on his, or her, end of the bench.
DUH! What in the h#@$ is a “BIBLE” University?
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And, what in h&*@ is a “Bible University” graduate doing as President - or Chancellor, or Dean, or whatever - of a tax supported State “institution of higher learning”?
Oh, and Alchemist - how about tonsils and appendices? Actually how about eybrows?
@Old Grouch- problem with what you have said is that the only real Christians are the fundamentalists.
They are the only ones who believe the bible word for word. Anyone who doesn’t is just posing and deluding themselves. How can you be part of a religion you don’t believe in?
“Actually how about eybrows?”
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Yeah and why do I have a really hairy bit between my shoulders? In fact - if I remember - the only place on our body we don’t have hair is on our pads!
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Sorry - palms.
hahahahaha Hair…
@Pluto - Orthodoxy is not based on the Bible. Indeed, it was the Church, in Council Assembled, who collected together the various manuscripts circulating throughout the Church, and settled upon that Canon which would be used throughout for Public Worship, in the 6th Century. When the Protestant revolutionaries threw out Tradition - however much abused and twisted it had become in the Western Church - they were left with . . . basically a form of “make it up as you go along”, which is the root of all Protestantism, and its various cults, sects, and divisions today.
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Your Bible will give you the words of St. Paul, where he says, “If an angel comes among you teaching other than we have taught, reject him.” Which teaching was ORAL, not from any written source, and is Tradition. In strict application, Orthodoxy regards Romanism as Protestant, often referring to the Pope as “the first Protestant”; harking back to the Arian controversy, when Honorius of Rome, who could not read, write, or speak Greek opted for the “diphthong” - Homoiusion (of like/similar substance) rather than the Christian Theological position of Homousion (of the same substance) - and Rome was lost to the Arian heresy for about a Century and a half, before returning to the fundamentals of the Symbolion - or Creed as it is known in the West.
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The “Old Testament” - Hebrew mythology book - isn’t regarded as a “word for word” matter of belief by the Jews, whose original book it is. If they don’t, how then do “christians” come to that point?
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And, while Christians did - and still do - utilize the Psalms, and other parts of the Old Testament readings, Orthodoxy does not - and never has - seen any of them in the “Mohamedan” view, as being some kind of “dictated”, or “transcribed”, “Divine and inerrant” set of absolutes. Indeed, if you actually read your Bible itself, you will find that many of the historical books tell you, among other things, that they are, simply, redactions, or editions, of other, more comprehensive, works, usually to be found - in the day and age - in the Royal archives, or equivalent.
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Don’t mistake bibliolatry - book worship - for Christian Theology.
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If you be actually interested in Christian Theology, I would recommend Father John Meyendorf, BYZANTINE THEOLOGY - or almost any other of his writings as well. Father Alexander Schmemann also wrote an excellent catechetical series. Any of these should be available through your library; Or, if you want to add them to your own library, Light and Life Books, St. Vladimir Seminary Press; or most religious/church goods retailers on order.
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Christian Theology (Orthodox) concerns itself solely with that which are matters of Faith. Sociology, economics, history, and the “hard” sciences are matters of HUMAN affairs; and humans are quite free to develop their own cultures, customs, usages, and technologies.
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But, again, I would suggest that those who want to learn go to those who are sources of teaching materials. That’s really what learning is all about - education, to “educe”, or draw forth from - rather than mere memorization, and parroting of a “party line” by way of indoctrination. I think one will find that process to be a wonderful experience in life.
Need…more…gaps…please!
I am so lazy to read those long posts…bah..
@ Old Grouch_ so real Christians are inspired by writing not a slave to it.
@ old grouch
Jesus said in Matthew 5:18 “For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled”.
Jesus says the old testament is the real deal - every word. Verse 19 and 20 go on to describe the punishment for not heeding the old laws/testament/prophets.
The bible is so ambiguous that you can pretty much support any preconceived notion you may have. The rub comes when you pay attention to ALL of it. There is some pretty nasty shit in there….
On occasion I wander over to the Disco Institution to see what the prize IDiots have been up to. I do not recommend taking such an excursion on a regular basis as this often numbs brain function for hours, which can be quite scary at times for those endowed with rational thought function abilities. From snake oil sales head office:-
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*Design of Life* (Posted 19th November at Discovery)
“Fast forward to 2008, and Pandas’ successor, The Design of Life, written by leading ID theorists William Dembski and Jonathan Wells, brings readers up to speed on the numerous advancements of ID over the past 20 years. Design of Life is more than twice as long as Pandas, recounting many of the peer-reviewed scientific papers, scientific books, and laboratory studies completed by ID theorists. It offers an excellent up-to-date account of ID for any reader.”
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http://www.evolutionnews.org/2007/11/design_of_life.html#more
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I was sure I could hear singing while I was there….like “we’ll build a world of our own”….and then….. “we’re not listening… we can’t hear you….we can’t see you…. lalalalalalalalala”.
@ Jennyanydots Nov 20th, 2007 at 10:46 pm
“how about tonsils and appendices? Actually how about eybrows?”
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-@109 Alchemist Nov 20th, 2007 at 11:20 pm
“Yeah and why do I have a really hairy bit between my shoulders? In fact - if I remember -
the only place on our body we don’t have hair is on our pads”!
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My favourite…..scent glands around our anus?
@ Old Grouch
Oooooh! I love it oral! But you are correct, the Byzantine is the closest to the paga- I mean original Christian traditions, hehe.
@Old Grouch–no worries. I realize my user-name here is ambiguous. My time in Romania has been interesting–somewhere in the middle of good and bad. The amount of corruption here is mind-boggling. Unlike the US (which I believe ranks #20 on Transparency International’s Corruption Perception Index–the lowest of all the rich, western countries), which at least tries to be subtle about it, Romanian politicians and authority figures are completely blantant about the corruption. (They rank #69 on the CPI, and are the most corrupt member of the EU.) Anyway, enough ranting…
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“No offense to our good Pastafarian hosts here; but NOT all Christianity is rooted in bibliolatry, nor is it all - or even in that large a part - given over to such funnymentalcase ideas as “Creation Science” and/or “Intellegent Design” - as a fixed set of propositions - substituting for human growth, discovery, and knowledge.”
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And think that shows by the numbers of Christians we’ve had post here that aren’t offended by the site and FSMism, and can appreciate the satire of it. And we’ve even had one on another thread (user name: sawthelight), who, while a bit heavy-handed in her approach, was genuinely concerned about our souls. Once everybody got past their respective “I’m right, you’re wrong,” attitudes, a civilized conversation followed. I think the aggravation of bibliolatory stems from the fact that this minority is very vocal and uses that to try and bully their way into places where their beliefs do not belong, such as science classrooms.
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@Captain Capelli d’angelo–”Jesus said in Matthew 5:18 “For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled”.”
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Did Jesus say that, or did some random guy say that, centuries after Jesus’ death?
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“The bible is so ambiguous that you can pretty much support any preconceived notion you may have. The rub comes when you pay attention to ALL of it.”
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Agreed. And it’s the literal interpretation of these conflicting notions that leads to some people calling for the teaching of ID in science classes, and FSM knows what else. (I had a classmate a couple years ago who continues to flip out about birth control. Apparently, it contradicts the whole “go forth and multiply” or other such nonsense.)
@Wench Nikkiee – Re http://www.evolutionnews.org/2007/11/design_of_life.html#more
I had a qick read. Seems like a lot of bull shit to me.
“Today, the NCSE’s website hosts over 100 individual web pages attacking Pandas….
Why have Darwinists gone to such lengths to attack Pandas? It’s simple. While Discovery Institute opposes mandating ID in public schools or adopting Pandas in public schools, Pandas nonetheless scared Darwinists because it offered a potent, comprehensive critique of Darwinian evolution and proposed a legitimate scientific alternative, intelligent design (ID). “
I thought it was because it was filled with unexplained and ungrounded sudo-science?
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I liked the quote you used.
“…recounting many of the peer-reviewed scientific papers, scientific books, and laboratory studies completed by ID theorists. It offers an excellent up-to-date account of ID for any reader.”
Would that be 400 pages of crap and overly worded trip designed to try and fool those who don’t know better?
Best of all:
“a critical analysis of the evidence used to support the hypothesis that whales evolved from land-mammals.”
Soooo this would ignore the fossil record again? Or the fact that the breath air?
It’s the horrible combination of funny and scary (like circus clowns) that seems to prevail.
Are we sure their not just taking the piss?