The church behind the hate-protest of a Marine’s funeral last year has been told to pay $10.9 Million.
Last year they caused outrage when they attended the funeral of Matthew Snyder with signs reading “Thank God for dead soldiers” and “You’re going to hell”.
On Wednesday, the jury ordered the church and three of its leaders to pay $2.9m in compensatory damages, and an additional $8m for invasion of privacy and for causing emotional distress.
This is the group behind the “God Hates Fags” campaign, as well.
This is my favorite part:
The church cited its constitutional right to free speech in its defence.
You can say whatever you want, but you can be held responsible for the consequences of what you say. Like, for example, if you bring a hate-parade to a Marine’s funeral and scar his family for life.
It makes me happy that the Church of FSM is tolerant and rejects action of hate.
Here is the link.
| 
I don’t think any right should be universal. The right to peaceably assemble shouldn’t mean you can get together with people in the street. If you take any right too far, the results are just as bad as if they rights never existed in the first place. Remember, every time you enact one of your rights, you take away from someone else.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Final Note= Like Len Guini said to Alex: “hate speech is a hate crime”.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
@ Robert Hood.
Wow. So, if we bear arms we can just shoot people? That will insure we
can change the government when we want to?
And people shouldn’t be able to gather on the streets?
And “hate speech is a hate crime”?
.
Where do you live? Nevermind, I don’t care to know.
I’ll enjoy the rights I have here in America,
Even if it means I can’t just shoot people,
Hell even if it means I can hang out on a street corner
with like minded friends. -rolls eyes-
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
@Robert Hood – interesting opinions. But I can’t say that I agree with you. Some rights should in fact be universal. For example, the right to live without fear, the right to have enough to eat, the right to express yourself without getting shot or jailed.
.
And bullets don’t necessarily change governments faster than anything. You may want to refresh yourself and look up Ghandi.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
@Peter: I meant on the streets themselves, blocking traffic. It’s dangerous to everyone.
.
You can mock the right to bear arms all you want, but if I had to choose between that and free speech, I would pick bearing arms. With that I have the power to FIGHT against a facist government, not just debate with it. I live in America too.
.
@Iron Bess: Again, everytime you carry out your rights, your take away those rights from another. A completely free society wouldn’t function any more than a totalitarian one.
.
Nonviolent resistance is not always an alternative. If You put Ghandi up against Nazi Germany, who would win?
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
@Iron Bess – I agree with you but what you are calcould you explain the right to have enough to eat?
does that mean that if I forgot my wallet the government has to buy me lunch?
@Robert Hood – Huh? If I exercise a right I take it away from someone else? I think a better point would be that you exercise your rights until they infringe upon the rights of others.
Also if the government is that bad that it needs to be overthrown then it doesn’t mater whether you have the right to arm bears, you will find a way to take care of things.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
“Some of them. There are assholes in every group that make everyone else look bad.”
true
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
“Robert Hood Nov 7th, 2007 at 11:33 am
@Peter: I meant on the streets themselves, blocking traffic. It’s dangerous to everyone”.
.
Well thanks for clearing that up, I agree!
Not sure what it has to do with the discussion in this thread? But, OK.
.
“You can mock the right to bear arms all you want, but if I had to choose between that and free speech, I would pick bearing arms. With that I have the power to FIGHT against a facist government, not just debate with it. I live in America too.”
.
Huh? Shoot first, then lets talk? That works I guess?
When did I mock the right to bear arms?
I support the NRAs interpretation of the second amendment friend.
They have taken the “Militia” part out, yet maintain that we all have a right to protect ourselves.
As has the Supreme Court on more then one occasion.
.
I can only guess you belong to the Michigan Militia or some other whacko group of people who think the Government is out to get them?
Those minority groups scare me more then the Government does.
At least I get to vote on how the Government acts (I know I’m only one vote and I don’t usually get what I want from it) but it is my voice and the voice of all the others who vote.
While the “militia” mindset is what a few people decide is the way things should be.
Scary stuff that!
.
This isn’t 1789 anymore. We are a little more stable now then we were then.
I would like to think that you as a fellow American were more up to date on how the laws here are used.
But little surprises me anymore.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
@Fool: “I think a better point would be that you exercise your rights until they infringe upon the rights of others”
.
Thanks, that is the point I meant to say. I said it on a previous thread, but could not for the life of me remember the wording.:)
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Speaking of rights…Have you guys seen what is going on in Venezuela?
.
Childs belong the government untill they are 21. They can’t leave the country without the goverment consent. You are not allowed to have internet or cellphones if you don’t work in a public office. The guy is taking away all of the people’s money and properties…many of these people have earned what they have.
.
@Fool. I think that what Iron Bess tried to say is that it is not fair to starve to death. If you are a person that works and you forgot your wallet. Shit happens. But there are a lot of people that have no access to food because they either don’t have the money or the land in which they live is not appropiate. I think they shouldn’t be given free food, rather the ways so they can grow and harvest. Maybe even sell what they produce…there are ways…but people are too greedy.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
I’ve never enjoyed the right to bear arms. I’m not really sorry about that either ( the idea of serving 12 years because the person in front of me has to use the exact change… KAPOW!) I suppose you don’t miss what you’ve never had.
.
Robert – you’re not saying that *Might is Right* are you? Hey pilgrim., get off your horse and we can do this man to man :D
.
.
The right of free speech is a pretty good one though (my public apology to PP for forgetting that!)
.
With rights come responsibilities. Abu Hamza (a radical Islamic Cleric in the UK) was arrested and convicted of various charges re: incitement, racial intolerance etc.
.
Saying that you believe a group to be evil is ok, I think. Trying to convert others to your belief is a bit less ok.
.
Asking/telling others to kill…?
.
.
I still think that this decision against Westboro’ was legally incorrect (that’s based on my limited knowledge of the US legal system)
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
@ Alchemist: Regrettably, I think “Might is Right” in many situations. Whoever has the most muscle wins. As Iron Bess points out, it isn’t always the case, but if you look back many major historical changes for the better were brought about by force of arms (e.g.: Fall of Nazi Germany, American Civil War, etc.).
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
@PacificPam – my comment was meant to be sarcastic, but no I don’t think the government should give food to anyone regardless of their conditions, I believe they should give them assistance to improve their financial conditions.
.
Having grown up in a 3rd world country(Mexico) and first hand knowledge of what being hungry really means( a good meal included tortillas to go with the beans) I still don’t think that the right to have enough to eat is a real right, I believe that everyone has the right to better themselves and get out of poverty, but most people are not allowed to, and those that are permitted are told that they are not good enough, or the latest idea in the 3rd world country I am currently working in (Bronx, NY, USA), the poor are kept poor by themselves because they believe that they have the right to get everything they want simply because they are poor, and refuse to do anything to better themselves, “I am poor because I am Black / Hispanic / Immigrant / Etc” is a very common complaint here.
.
PS the 3rd world comment for the Bronx is not mine it comes from the people I deal with they honestly believe that they live in some of the worst conditions of the world because of their cultural or racial heritage and that all the people that have money should buy them what they want without havening to work for anything. I currently volunteer at a high school to tutor and mentor kids and help them better themselves.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
@RobertHood, you forgot to mention a more recent event of MIGHT IS RIGHT, George Bush and Iraq war.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
@ El Peatieablo – you are close of the definition of obscenity. However, you missed the most important part. To constitute obscenity is must appeal to the “prurient interest.” Yes — that’s right — we have defined “obscenity” by saying it is what appeals to the “prurient interest.” Good luck defining it, the courts can’t seem to do a very good job. In any event, it is a little off topic for this post. What we are really talking about is hate speech, which is another category of less protected speech. However, the courts have largely been hands off in this area. In my opinion, that is right. I don’t want the Government telling me what is hate speech or monitoring my moral compass. The Government should not censor the content of the messages — even those as abhorrent as this one. Instead the Government should control the forum. Let this group say what they want, just not at a soldier’s funeral.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
@Fool. I totally agree with you. Sorry But I didn’t see the sarcastic tone. I was born and raised in a third world country, too. I am from Panama. What you say is true. They think that they can’t be better because they are poor, which is stupid. My mom used to live in a clay house, sleeping in a bed made of branches. And still I went to a private School, she has 3 masters degrees. They should be given the tools and the education. It is a dead end without proper education.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
You know what I really hate? That fucking law that the US has, if you belong to a minority, you are entitled to go to school even if you are not qualified. even if you didn’t put enough effort. So if I studied my ass off. There comes a person from a minority and there is only one spot left they will give it to that person. Fuck that shit. I find that insulting.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Yes you have the right to receive an education. But, you also have the duty to study fucking hard.
.
Too much hatred.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
@James Madison
Thanks, I didn’t know that. I looked it up on Wiktionary and got the following definition for “prurient”:
“In United States legal application, sick, morbid or shameless.” If that is correct, I think we’re covered.
.
About the 1st/2nd amendment debate: I think some of us are taking the current state of political affairs for granted. Imagine a government that just goes around killing everybody that opposes it. Having the right to say what ever you want doesn’t help much, because they could just kill you. If you and a few of your buddies are armed, they will have a harder time of it. That being said, nowadays most 1st world nations have sort of outgrown the concept of a militia. No militia is going to take on an M1A1 or an F-22. The important thing to remember is that we can have both rights and shouldn’t have to chose between them.
.
That being said, I don’t think we should have the right to bear arms in heaven. Beer volcanoes and guns don’t mix.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
@ El Peatieablo – that definition is incomplete. Prurient has a sexual connotation. See Black’s legal dictionary (Characterized by or arousing inordinate or unusual sexual desire). Therefore, the message of this group does not fall under obscenity in First Amendment terms. This is properly categorized as “hate speech” under First Amendment jurisprudence. I will agree that this group’s message is sick, morbid, and shameless. But I also agree that they should be able to express it in an appropriate place. That is not to say that they don’t deserve an extreme amount of criticism. Just as they have the right to say it, I have the right to say they religious nut-bags spewing hateful nonsense.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
“No militia is going to take on an M1A1 or an F-22.”
.
That would depend upon whether they thought the cause was worth dying for!
.
Surely nobody would strap C4 around their body and blow themselves up. Or set fire to themselves in protest?
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
@James Madison
You sure know a lot about the constitution. It’s almost as if you wrote the thing… :)
.
@Alchemist
Sorry, didn’t quite type it right. I meant that a militia can’t take them all down (assuming the military is competent). On the other hand, you need a lot of people with C4 strapped around them to get past the machine guns protecting the heavy equipment of a modern military. The main point I was trying to make was that you don’t have to sacrifice either freedom of speech or the right to bear arms to have the other.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Yes, well, I did have some help. ;)
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
I just want to say that I do believe that Ghandi-esque passive ressistance is vastly preferable to violence. preventing bloodshed is allways a good thing.
.
@ Peter: It COULD have been taken as mockery when you “-rolls eyes-”ed at me. If that was not your intention, then I apologize. I brought up the street thing as an example of when a right should be limited: The right to peaceably assemble doesn’t mean you can gather IN THE MIDDLE OF the street (i.e., in traffic).
.
I was actually born and raised in California, San Francisco no less. I don’t belong to a militia and don’t even know how to operate a gun. Yes, in today’s society (in Developed countries, at least) discussion is favored over force. But if that ever changes, I want to be at least mentally prepared to deal with it.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
@ El Peatieablo, you’d be surprised at the damage paramilitaries/militias can do to armies, if people feel strongly enough about something, they can train and get their hands on pretty powerful weapons, why do you think it’s so important to get all the paramilitaries in Northern Ireland decommissioned?
.
Has anyone ever organised a counter protest at a time when WBC are going to be holding one of their demonstrations?
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
How effective can a militia be? head to head more than likely they would loose, but very few if any use conventional warfare, they tend to use guerilla and other unconvetional tactics to get the results they want, which can be just spread a message or overthrow a government.
.
Don’t take my word for it. Look at what happened to the world trade center in New York. all you need is a determined group of people with enough faith in their cause to change the way things are.
.
How come the US military cannot defeat the insurgents in Iraq? and let me tell you the insurgents don’t come close to having any weapons that would do some serious damage to the US military.
.
I don’t believe that the right to arm bears is still valid. the only people the really benefit from this are the criminals. Too many drive by shootings, hold ups and road rage.
.
on the other hand until as a country we give up the second amendment I will defend it.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Sorry to veer from the socio-economic/militia/revolutionary talk that seems to have sprung up in recent posts but I’d just like to say that I’m glad to see that The Little Church of Hate is finally being made to pay for their harassment. Free speech is one thing, outright harassment is quite another.
I actually missed a great opportunity to see Fred Phelps and his extended family live and in person. A few years ago there was a sexual abuse/hazing incident at a summer football camp for a high school near me. Basically, seniors sodomized younger players with various objects against their will. I have no idea what that has to do with football or camaraderie but I guess that’s why I never played high school sports. Anyway, the Phelps clan showed up and protested, I think they were calling for harsher penalties for the offenders but I’m not sure, since their message always seems to be “God Hates Fags” and such, no matter what they’re protesting. I didn’t find out about their appearance until the next day and I have to admit that it’s one my great regrets. Rarely do you get the chance to see such an immense level of hatred and ignorance up close and I missed it.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
@ Fool:
“recent event of MIGHT IS RIGHT, George Bush and Iraq war…”
.
Yes, he has the might. Unfortunately he doesn’t have the brain to use the might rationally. If you give an angry five-year old a chainsaw, it’s not going to be pretty (assuming that the kid can even start the thing). I’m with Mandela on this one, go nonviolent until it is painfully obvious that that won’t work. Then and only then, having exhausted all other methods, should you take up arms, and even then with reservations. This is especially true now, with the middle east as unstable as it is.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
You want a better solution more fit for the 21st century? Education. Lift people of of the crap they live in and they’re more likely to be able to think for themselves and make reasoned decisions.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Thank FSM For this, Was about time to stop this fkers
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
I’m a little torn on this. I mean, I don’t agree with what this church is preaching, but still, it’s their RIGHT to preach it. There shouldn’t be any exceptions for this rule, should there?
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
@Xink…
Whether it is their right to spew this crap is up for debate (hence, this thread). Yes, there should be exceptions to the rule. While it’s not illegal to call your boss a snivelling whining milquetost, you do so at risk of being fired. You can call Bush a dumass all you want, but you call Bush a dumbass to his face and then go on to talk about his mother, his dog, and his foreign policy, and you’ll be escorted out. If you published “Bush Eats Babies” pamphlets you could be tried for slander. But yelling “you’re going to hell” at the funeral of a dead soldier pushes it into the realm of the seriously offensive. In fact, it could be argued that it constitutes a hate crime.
.
Quite often free speech is taken to mean you can say anything with no consequences. All it means is that you can speak out against the government without being taken out by the FBI. It is a great right and central to our nation, but sometimes it is taken too far. It was not meant to sheild hateful gits.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
The most important thing about freedom is the freedom to be responsible for your words and actions.
Most people forget that part and start crying when they are faced with it.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
I took this off the site:
“Thank you america! You propped up the pudgy-faced God hater to carry your water for you, with the stated goal of bankrupting WBC so we can’t preach! Guess what? In less than 24 hours our words have been spread to every corner of the earth via media outlets we couldn’t PAY to publish our message. Yes indeed, there are the words, in bright, bold color every place you look, in every corner of the earth. We would have paid $10.9 billion for that kind of coverage! ”
Grr.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Someone should tell them to read Matthew Chapter 23. “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men’s faces.” That was Jesus, talking about people who judge.
They are obviously picking and choosing which parts of the bible they want to pay attention to.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
Have you ever met a fundie who didn’t?
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
I may be wrong about this, but:
1. They protest a the funerals of fallen soldiers with signs that say “Thank God for dead soldiers” and “God hates fags”.
2. Implying (whether it is their intent or not) that the soldier whose funeral they are protesting is gay, or that someone at the funeral is gay.
If indeed it is NOT the case that said soldier or family is homosexual, doesn’t that directly fall under the laws of “Slander” or “Libel”?? Protesting is one thing, but publicly calling someone a derogatory term (which “fag” is) when they in fact are not, is slander, isn’t it?
If that’s not the case (which I suppose it may not be because they’ve never been sued for that), then unfortunately they do have the right to protest… On PUBLIC property.
However, it also means that other people have the right to counter-protest.
If they ever come to my town I’ll be making signs that look EXACTLY like theirs except that mine will say things like “God LOVES GAYS,” and “We contradict ourselves!” “We don’t speak for God” and “We’re Idiots”… and then stand directly among them with as many friends as possible holding the signs. Saying nothing. Doing nothing. Just standing there among them, making them look ridiculous for having contradictory signs.
Oh, and I’d be sure to have several other friends recording the whole thing so that we cannot be blamed if they start anything.
That’s how I would choose to peacefully combat this kind of idiocy.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
I see a lot of people in here saying that forcing these people to pay violates their right to free speech. This is not true. The right to free speech means that the government connot arrest, or in anyway perscute, you for saying what you want to say. This means that you cannot be taken to Criminal Court. You can still be taken to Civil court, as these people were.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0