Woah….that is just so..so…dumb. Really, it is. I hope no one actually thinks that that graph has any purpose, or credibility. Global warming and pirates have nothing in correlation. The reason global temperatures have increased is due to (not only just greenhouse gas, which actually do not contribute much overall) the earth’s natural process of heating and cooling. Pirate numbers have decreased because the practice is far less accepted and is more easily restricted. I don’t mean to sound rude, well actually I do. That’s bullshit, all of it. Seriously. I’d rather you believe in no higher power, and have good morales, than worship dinner.
-sean
P.S. Xenocide is a novel.
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@ Aristotle, it’s great that you have formed your own opinion, just be careful that believing the big bang etc. were cauced by a creator doesn’t stop you from looking for answers, saying a god did it has traditionally been the human way to avoid saying I don’t know, or preferrably, I don’t know yet, that’s one of the good things about science, admitting you don’t know something is all right, as long as you keep lookin for the answer. I’ve posted this link before, but it shows why the god did it argument worries me, http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/azimov_creationism.html
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@Storm Petrel:
I have for many years an Asimov fan, so thank you for giving me another reason to like his works. That article was truly worth the read.
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ObPeeve: The correct spelling is A-T-H-E-I-S-T. Yes, I know about the “I before E except after C” rule. “Atheist” is an exception.
Athiest looks like the superlative to Athy. Which might actually be a nice adjective for, oh, texts for instance. Hence, the Bible is completely unathy. But the athiest texts you’ll ever find are the IETF Internet standards.
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How can you not worship dinner?
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@Aristotle
If the origin of something is unexplained, that doesn’t mean there has to be some creator or designer who did it. The Chinese thought for millenia that solar eclipses and comets were signs of doom about to be visited upon them by their gods. But it just turned out to be the movement of objects in space. Similarly, people may have thought that lightning, that loud, bright, potentially lethal phenomenon was the wrath of god. Didn’t turn out that way. Lighning and solar eclipses were unexplained for a long time and many therefore attributed them to god(s). But as these examples show you, lack of an explanation of where something comes from doesn’t mean some creator made it. The origin of the universe id not too clear, but don’t let that make you believe in some unverifyable explanation in terms of god(s).
Also, even you did choose to believe in a god, you’ve not explained anything. Because the follow-up question would be: where did god come from? Or where did your philotes come from? As Storm Petrel says, it’s just another way of saying ‘We don’t know’. And it is indeed fine not to know everything yet. It’s better to keep working at it, to try to increase our knowledge rather then take the negative religous view and say ‘We’ll never understand god, no point to try to understand thing, switch off your brains instead’.
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@Aristotle – You are correct about the 4 options I presented earlier. Only the first says anything about how – or maybe even more to the point – WHY the universe came into being. The others do not answer a question about what was before the big bang etc. But DPG asks a very valid question in the above post: “where did god come from?”. I might be repeating some of what DPG and Storm Petrel said above, apologies for that.
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Historically god has been a method of explaining the mysteries of the universe. I believe that a problem religions face these days is that that domain is diminishing. If someone were to claim lightning, the tide, solar eclipses, etc. as works of god, you would just say “no they are not, you dimwit” (leave out dimwit for a more polite effect). At this point we cannot yet look behind the big bang. That is about all what is left of gods’ traditional domain – the domain of natural phenomena.
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I do not know how old you are, but if you are indeed young as other posters say, I applaud you for forming your own opinion. My beard does not grow long and gray either so for anyone to consider me a fatherly authority figure, they would have to be less than 10 years old.
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I encourage you to form your own opinion of the beginning of the universe. A few questions for you to think of along the way: Has god existed forever or was it born somehow? Could the universe just have existed forever (ie. there has always been energy that just was reshaped in the big bang or something of that sort)? If there were no god, could you deal with what that implies in terms of the following issues: a meaning of life, ethics, afterlife…?
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Being an atheist is not necessarily easy – you do not go to heaven when you die. You do not go to hell either, it is harder than that. It may be terribly difficult to accept that you go nowhere – you are no more – it just ends there.
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I really don’t see what you guys are all making so much trouble about. I’m a Christian. I feel the whole problem is not whether or not your graph is believable, whether your deity has big balls or whether or not you can worship dinner but simply whether or not people can deal with having you do it. I believe in my God because I feel He’s there for me, that he exists if you want. You can believe in your Spaghetti Monster as much as you want also. If it makes you feel any better, I’m fine with it. Why do American Christians always have to be so rigid? I just don’t get it. Christianity is a religion, therefore it should stick to religious theories. If Christians just wouldn’t claim they are being scientific, the whole problem would be gone and the sole reason for the existence of this church would be gone with it.
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I’ve established a list (open for criticism, but remember, it’s only a list).
.
TRUE
evoltuion (creator or no creator)
free will
free rights
morals are important
if there is a creator, he is deist
America should solve its own problems before it tries to help others
hypocrisy is universal
stupidity is a growing problem
red is my favorite color
.
FALSE
Bible
Christianity (generally)
most other religions and their books
sometimes violence is ok (yeah right)
some people are smarter than others
sometimes you have no choice…(there is always a choice)
many things
.
LIMBO
existence of creator
exact value of pi
Where IS Waldo?
.
This list doesn’t include everything
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Aristotle, if violence is always wrong, in the hypothetical situation that a country had a large missile of mass destruction aimed at your country, and sent you a message there were about to launch it at you, would it be okay to send some fighter pilots to take out that missile? or a whole army?
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@Rob – Would they be willing to negotiate?
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@Aristotle – The list looks nice. Some criticism next…
“free rights” – do you mean human rights or that sort of thing? Or maybe that we are all free to do as we please without it being good/evil. Please be more specific.
“America should solve its own problems before it tries to help others” – no country will ever solve all its own problems, so theoretically you would never help. And please nobody mention Iraq, for we all know America in not helping.
“stupidity is a growing problem” – I think it is closer to a constant, it just has more channels these days – like the Internet.
“red is my favorite color” – Good choice, the colour of tomato sauce.
“some people are smarter than others” – I would like to know how you think this is false after you get to know a mentally handicapped person. Or even someone who just never could finish 9th grade.
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@Rob – “in the hypothetical situation that a country had a large missile of mass destruction aimed at your country, and sent you a message there were about to launch it at you, would it be okay to send some fighter pilots to take out that missile?”
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Do you honestly consider destroying a missile violence? Or does your plan include killing some members of the other party along the way? Maybe try to use diplomacy? I do not think the army will get there in time to stop the missile even if violence was ok in that case. In my opinion violence is neither good/evil, for there is no standard. It can be counterproductive, saddening, infuriating, etc – but not evil or good.
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@Aristotle “Would they be willing to negotiate?”
Sometimes you have to pick between two (or more) things that both seem bad/evil to you. That does not make either solution ok, just less bad than the other.
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“Rob Apr 19th, 2007 at 5:11 pm
Aristotle, if violence is always wrong, in the hypothetical situation that a country had a large missile of mass destruction aimed at your country, and sent you a message there were about to launch it at you, would it be okay to send some fighter pilots to take out that missile? or a whole army?”
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Without a second thought!
It’s called self preservation.
If you think I would stand here and let you or anybody kill me,
without putting up my best fight. You would be mistaken.
Anybody that would lay and be killed is a fool!
Not even worthy of your god.
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It seems that some guys out here are saying that the FSM is a kind of joke. But it really aint, you can see it all around you. How else could the world be so complex and well overthought. There must be a FSM.
Moreover there is even more concrete proof like the graph, you should check it out and you will see there is (also) the correlation!
I think there should become a world-wide law that forbids to joke about FSM, because it can hurt people like me. And I think the FSM himself is hurt too seeing that people are joking about him. He sees it all! Be warned!
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@C5M & Rob -
on “free rights” – I meant human rights.
on “America should solve its own problems before it tries to help others” – Maybe we could try a little harder.
on “stupidity is a growing problem” – you’re right, “it is closer to a constant.”
on “some people are smarter than others†– I meant to put this in true.
on “sometimes violence is ok” (under false) – I didn’t think I needed to mention self defense.
on “Would they be willing to negotiate?†– If they are willing to treat with me, then I won’t need to do those less desirable actions. I’d be happy to negotiate with them. (On a side note, if I was in country such as Switzerland, I could remain neutral in all wars. No one would try to attack Switzerland (and no one has) because 1. it would be hard and wastefull to campaign in that kind of terrain, 2. Switzerland has little or no recourses, 3. Switzerland generally doesn’t make enemies, and 4. Switzerland has always been a neutral country. I won’t be living in the US forever.)
-Aristotle
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@Aristotle Apr 16th, 2007 at 6:07 pm
“Secondly, if you read “Darwin’s Black Box: The Biochemical Challenge to Evolution†by Michael J. Behe, like I have and like everyone should, you’ll find it hard not to believe in a higher power. (It’s a very good book; and by the way, it doesn’t actually support intelligent design, it only presents an extremely relevant challange to Darwin’s theory of evolution by natural†selection.)”
Probably best to read the contradicting arguments that deal directly with Behe’s assertions in “Darwin’s Black Box: The Biochemical Challenge to Evolution†(Behe)
That surely would allow an appropriate overview from which one could weigh up both sides of the debate?
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“Behe’s empty box”
http://www.simonyi.ox.ac.uk/dawkins/WorldOfDawkins-archive/Catalano/box/behe.shtml#intro
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@ everyone – I’m impressed! What a good discussion. Haven’t gone all the way through. Must dash…
@ Peter – “Without a second thought!
It’s called self preservation.
If you think I would stand here and let you or anybody kill me,
without putting up my best fight. You would be mistaken.
Anybody that would lay and be killed is a fool!
Not even worthy of your god.” RAmen pirate brother! I am with you on this one!
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@ Wench Nikkiee – Hiya! Might have a chance to come back later. I should go spend some time with hubby – it’s his b’day and it’s been a bad day!
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@Rowdy and Wenchy
Hello.
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=:)
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Hello Thumper :)
So you haven’t deserted us after all. Good stuff :)))
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All hail his eminence the Flying Spaghetti Monster:
To Capekicks, the depletion of Pirates and its effect on global warming makes about as much sense as Mann’s hockey stick graph, which is based on several fallacies and is the basis of all the man made global warming crap. Google these and find out.
1. The data smoothing technique that was used, is flawed, other mathmeticians using this technique on random data also produce the hockey stick graph.
2. The hockey stick graph, and Mann’s assumptions ignore two very important times in history, the medieval warming and the Little Ice ages. Mann, says these were localized therefore insignificant. But other scientific studies show the same periods throughout the planet. If Mann is wrong in this assumption, what else is he wrong about?
3. Mann’s data set itself is flawed. Up until the last century Mann uses tree ring data to determine temperature, in the last century he uses surface temperature. The problem with surface temperature, is simple, many of the reporting sites were rural sites 100 yrs ago, those sites are now contained in the urban sprawl, and anyone knows urban temps are 2 or more degrees higher than rural temps.
Enhancing the skewed data of the last 20 years.
Lastly Mann himself is stifling the debate, he has been appointed as one of the chief referee’s for the scientific journals, where conflicting theories are debated. And he is blocking publication of articles in these journals that dispute his theory. If Galleleo, and Copernicus would have been similarly blocked for all ages, would the world still be flat.
May the FSM, lead you to truth and integrity.
J
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This is pretty interesting…. Shows that people can actually take this seriously. Sad thing really… our society has turned to crap.
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@Rowdy Wench, whenever you come back:
Did you take you massage exam, and if so how did it go?
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“Stephen Von Hatten Apr 20th, 2007 at 1:57 pm
This is pretty interesting…. Shows that people can actually take this seriously. Sad thing really… our society has turned to crap.”
.
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Not quite as sad as putting your life in the hands of some dead guy hanging on a cross a couple thousand years ago.
But hey! Whatever floats your boat right?
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“But hey! Whatever floats your boat right?”
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Not another plug for *Miracle Water* ?
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Beware!
Thou shalt not take the Holy Gore’s name in vain or thou will be branded on thine forehead for the grievious sin of climate change denial!
Holy f*ck*ing sh*t, I am getting on in years and I remember when as a teenager being threatened by the enlightened scientific community that the new ice age was imminent.
Let us face it dear brethren of the Holy F.S.M., these scaremongers are the new phrophets of doom, who seek to extract more and more “green tax” monies from the ignorant masses to fill their wallets and build their palaces, never trust a politician, may they be cursed to drink warm flat tasteless beer for all eternity the scheming a*seholes, ramen.
I do enjoy a good rant.
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Thanks for straightening me out Profit J. Not only are tens of thousands of the worlds leading scientists out to mislead me about the causes of global warming, they made the whole thing up. I do have to say, those pictures of retreating glaciers., calving Antarctic ice, melting permafrost and changing flora patterns really had me duped. Its all just PHOTOSHOP! Yep, I fell for their so called scientific lies once again. Just like when they sold me that worthless bag of goods- Evolution. .Bunk! I should have compared the hockey stick graph to FSM’s legitimate global warming- Pirate graph. That would have set me straight.
FSM created the world and the temperature is going to be whatever He and his Pirate cohorts want it to be.
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@Aristotle
“I meant human rights” – In my view they are just a contract. If you have not climed the profits they provide, you are not bound to them. Maybe this is an appropriate time to say LONG POST WARNING.
.
My view on ethics… There is one constant in ethics, that you are free to make your own contracts. Since I do not see any authority that could impose a set of right morals, there are none. No action as such is right/wrong. The society however is made up of contracts on innumerable levels. If you assume that you are protected by one of the contracts, you must not break it, or it no longer protects you.
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Example 1: If you drive over the speed limit, people who hurt you as a consequence of speeding should not be punished for it.
Example 2: If you kill a murderer, you are not to be punished, for the contract that protects individual life does not apply to him. He has broken the contract and it is not against the contract to kill him.
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If a person serves the punishment set for breaking the contract, he is re-entitled the rights granted by the contract. For example if the previoulsy mentioned murderer wants to come under the contract that protects his life, he must first serve the punishment. The punishment is set by those that are under the contract.
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Scary? It gets better ;) The contract does not mean that something is good/evil or right/wrong. It just means that you can assume a certain degree of protection from certain actions that you yourself do not commit.
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@Everybody commenting on the post about missiles and self preservation -
I think a more interesting point than would you do that is the question Rob originally asked – “…would it be okay…”
Is it ethical? Not would you do it.
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“I am getting on in years and I remember when as a teenager being threatened by the enlightened scientific community that the new ice age was imminent.”
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Oh dear!
One does need to do a bit of thorough research to get a grasp on the scientific concepts.
Good luck :)
.
Maybe you were being sarci?
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Sorry guys, haven’t been on in a while.
Though trust me I had very good cause.
So, what’s been going on?
-Pixel Pop, Hero of the Church
RAmen
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Are you all aware that there is a Pirate convention in New Orleans this week! If enough come, we may see the beginning of the end of Global Warming or at least the second coming of the FSM. May you all be touched by his Noodly Appendage.
Damon132
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Arrr damon132 – just a *bit* too far for me I’m afraid. Otherwise I’d be up for a week long session in New Orleans. Hell yeah :)
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Hi Pixel – been out for a few days too – still trying to catch-up
– a new Jingles fuckwit finder has been released.
Not 30 minutes after its’ release did Jingles have to issue version 2.1 – some floating-point error apparently :)
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Trouble is that the threads you left, that were active, aren’t when you get back. Unless the thread is under ‘latest posts’ or ‘recent comments’, then I’m stuffed!
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Canute Gore can control the sun?
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“Canute Gore can control the sun?”
Umm yes.. you are absolutely right….
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@Alchemist
Oh yeah, I saw the fuckwit finder, great laughs.
I was out for about a day or two, like I said before, I had very good cause.
-Pixel Pop, Hero of the Church
RAmen
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@C5M – “If you kill a murderer, you are not to be punished, for the contract that protects individual life does not apply to him. He has broken the contract and it is not against the contract to kill him.”
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No kidding?? Can a person kill a murderer?? I thought it was illegal to kill anyone. Well…I suppose there is the death sentence…?
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“@Everybody commenting on the post about missiles and self preservation -
I think a more interesting point than would you do that is the question Rob originally asked – ‘…would it be okay…’
Is it ethical? Not would you do it.”
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No, in my opinion, it’s not ethical. I would avoid violence at all costs.
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Aristotle “……would it be okay…Is it ethical? Not would you do it.â€..No, in my opinion, it’s not ethical. I would avoid violence at all costs.”
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I think you’re missing the bigger picture Aristotle – “Would it be amusing?”
You’d be amazed how important this question is!
.
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Aristotle Apr 21st, 2007 at 6:02 pm
.
“@Everybody commenting on the post about missiles and self preservation -
I think a more interesting point than would you do that is the question Rob originally asked – ‘…would it be okay…’
Is it ethical? Not would you do it.â€
.
No, in my opinion, it’s not ethical. I would avoid violence at all costs.
.
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You’re right of course!
Much more Ethical to cower in a corner like an asshohe.
Let your life be worth less then that of your enemies!
I liked you up till you made this statement.
Grow some balls son, join the real world.
.
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Hi Pixely Dude!
You’ve missed the coming of the seventh son.
Whilst you were messing with that young girl!
May FSM take pity on your soul! :)
Ramen
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@Peter Popoff – “You’re right of course!
Much more Ethical to cower in a corner like an asshohe.
Let your life be worth less then that of your enemies!
I liked you up till you made this statement.
Grow some balls son, join the real world.”
.
Cower in a corner? Let my life be worth less than that of my enemies? Ha! I could care less whether or not I die, as long as I showed I could face my demise unflinchingly while my opponent had to express his “superiority.” Sure, I would be scared (and perhaps not unflinching), but I’ll be happy as long as I’m not the one acting so uncivilized.
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Besides, I can’t wait for those beer volcanoes and hot strippers….
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@Alchemist –
“Aristotle ‘……would it be okay…Is it ethical? Not would you do it.’..No, in my opinion, it’s not ethical. I would avoid violence at all costs.’
I think you’re missing the bigger picture Aristotle – ‘Would it be amusing?’
You’d be amazed how important this question is!”
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Well, it certainly would be amusing to see an idiotic grin on my adversary’s face.
.
Aristotle
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@Cottura 5 Minuti
You line about opting in and out of society at will is totally unworkable.
Consider a serial rapist/mugger/bank robber/burglar (delete as applicable) who argues that it is fine for others to do to him what he does to them – if they can.
.
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Atistotle.
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“…Well, it certainly would be amusing to see an idiotic grin on my adversary’s face.”
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This would be just before your adversary ties you to a chair with the bottom cut-out and tortures you for two weeks. Then finally shoots you in the back of the head?
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“….Ha! I could care less whether or not I die..”
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Work on your self-worth! The instinct of self-preservation in a life-threatening situation is one you might have trouble overcoming.
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Does this lack of care for your life extend to other areas? If you were attacked by wild dogs would you fight back? Or would you tape raw liver to your neck in an attempt to prove how civilised you were?
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This all sounds like teen angst to me :) Not a bad thing really. Just avoid razor blades (and don’t get pissed and tattoo yourself)
:))
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Alchemist, Don’t be so hard on yourself. I quite like your tattoo and at least you did it the ‘proper way’ and before they were sooo fashionable.
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Ooh…maybe I missed something here?
Try puttng me in a corner….thank you :)
I’m actually an easy going person…but..well…try threatening me in a corner and see how good my basic instincts are. You should at least bring some decent sort of firepower with you! Then again I was always taught…never wear a gi to a gunfight :)))
Sorry to all the sooks …but I’m a country girl and you are not even going to come close with your imagined principles!
I can be such a total bitch when I decide to stand up for what I believe in.
*sweet smile*!!
Maybe tomorrow I’ll be nicer….shit happens!
RAmen!!!
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Hahahaha! If you mean drunk as a skunk, ink, needle and “it seemed a good idea at the time” attitude. Yeah :))
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Aris – I meant to add – …or if you must then make sure the tat. is out of view. There are plenty of folks with LOVE and HATS tattooed on their knuckles who will attest to that!
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Hi Wench Nikkiee :) Not gone through all of Aristotle’s post yet. Some exceed my concentration limit (not the same as Molarity – whoever it was that mixed their units :) )
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I do sense a New Testament leaning though :)
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Molarity? Mole? Per Litre? Molecularity? Is that the same as polarity? Shells? Quantum ground states? Bugga! Shit! No Idea! Seriously!
How many humbugs do ya get for ye penny?
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Oh hang on…that’s another word they swear at me… isn’t it.?…stoichiometry…blaggh :p
*pokes tongue at all chemically orientated people*
That goes for you too Jingles :p
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@Peter
The FSM took pity on my soul a while ago, and now I’m feelin’ great!
-Pixel Pop, Hero of the Church
RAmen
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Humbugs for a penny eh?
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One of the most philosophically taxing questions of our time!
“What is a humbug?” “Why a penny?” “Do ‘degrees of humbug’ exist?”
****NEWS FLASH****NEWS FLASH****NEWS FLASH****NEWS FL..etc
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Physicists at CERN, the European centre for nuclear research have released this statement!”
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“Yeah, right! It’s all, like, fuzzy! Hehehehehehehe!”
Said Professor Phillipps from the “Faculty of Really BIG Magnets”
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“The Universe is soooo cooool!”
Quoted Dr. Salvia.
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Dr Salvia later recovered from his “I can fly” experiment to give me this interview.
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ME: Dr Salvia, your views on the universe are conventional to say the least! Where do you stand on global warming?
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Dr Salvia: Ooooh! That chicken has some very big wings! I wonder if my tomatoes need feeding? They can get quite cross you know! They’ll be banging on the window soon!
I like Crocuses!
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ME: Lovely to meet you, Dr Salvia! Best be going, eh?
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