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]]> By: Lazlow http://www.venganza.org/2007/04/14/woah.htm#comment-194176 Lazlow Mon, 24 Sep 2007 05:47:34 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2007/04/14/woah.htm#comment-194176 It's important to note that a lot of the "facts" that Crichton used in State of Fear are somewhat distorted. There's a good article highlighting some of the errors here: http://www.pewclimate.org/state_of_fear.cfm It was a good read, but at the end of the day it's a work of fiction and best treated as that. It’s important to note that a lot of the “facts” that Crichton used in State of Fear are somewhat distorted. There’s a good article highlighting some of the errors here:

http://www.pewclimate.org/state_of_fear.cfm

It was a good read, but at the end of the day it’s a work of fiction and best treated as that.

]]> By: Hoodia http://www.venganza.org/2007/04/14/woah.htm#comment-193319 Hoodia Sat, 22 Sep 2007 20:07:29 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2007/04/14/woah.htm#comment-193319 <strong>Hoodia...</strong> dude cool site i like it very much.... Hoodia…

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]]> By: Frink Labs http://www.venganza.org/2007/04/14/woah.htm#comment-189846 Frink Labs Fri, 14 Sep 2007 03:23:36 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2007/04/14/woah.htm#comment-189846 Sorry - I should have said novel, not book. State of Fear's ending wasn't the only part that sucked, but I think that the story was incidental, a framework used to deliver the content. I found the comparison of global warming with eugenics quite compelling. The most entertaining part was probably his brief descriptions of the publications on his recommended reading list. Sorry - I should have said novel, not book. State of Fear’s ending wasn’t the only part that sucked, but I think that the story was incidental, a framework used to deliver the content. I found the comparison of global warming with eugenics quite compelling.

The most entertaining part was probably his brief descriptions of the publications on his recommended reading list.

]]> By: One-eyed Wonderkin http://www.venganza.org/2007/04/14/woah.htm#comment-189685 One-eyed Wonderkin Thu, 13 Sep 2007 18:41:44 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2007/04/14/woah.htm#comment-189685 Frink Labs - please note that State of Fear is fiction. The book has a terrible aweful ending. I enjoyed all but the last 30 or 40 pages. . Peer review of published articles is a joke. Frink Labs - please note that State of Fear is fiction. The book has a terrible aweful ending. I enjoyed all but the last 30 or 40 pages.
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Peer review of published articles is a joke.

]]> By: One-eyed Wonderkin http://www.venganza.org/2007/04/14/woah.htm#comment-189683 One-eyed Wonderkin Thu, 13 Sep 2007 18:27:02 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2007/04/14/woah.htm#comment-189683 PC - Please note that the sceintists have determined (I am not sure of the method used) that the global temperatures appear to be the highest immediately preceeding an ice age. As I understand it the ice age processs goes like this, the temperature risees, the ice caps metl, alinity of the oceans drops because of fresh water from the ice melt and the oceanic circulation stops. This causes the poles to get very cold "quickly" and the equator to get very hot. Out come the ice packs. . There is a large number of reasons that the research on global waring is flawed. One of them is the scientists are trying to predict long term and trend based on a very small data set. The vast majority of the temperature measurement reported before the 1960s is crap and unreliable. This applies to the "ocean level" measurements as well. . Don't get me wrong, I conceptually agree that the globe is getting warmer on average; however, I think that the mechanism is much more complicated than just CO2 emmisions. PC - Please note that the sceintists have determined (I am not sure of the method used) that the global temperatures appear to be the highest immediately preceeding an ice age. As I understand it the ice age processs goes like this, the temperature risees, the ice caps metl, alinity of the oceans drops because of fresh water from the ice melt and the oceanic circulation stops. This causes the poles to get very cold “quickly” and the equator to get very hot. Out come the ice packs.
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There is a large number of reasons that the research on global waring is flawed. One of them is the scientists are trying to predict long term and trend based on a very small data set. The vast majority of the temperature measurement reported before the 1960s is crap and unreliable. This applies to the “ocean level” measurements as well.
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Don’t get me wrong, I conceptually agree that the globe is getting warmer on average; however, I think that the mechanism is much more complicated than just CO2 emmisions.

]]> By: Frink Labs http://www.venganza.org/2007/04/14/woah.htm#comment-189678 Frink Labs Thu, 13 Sep 2007 18:17:12 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2007/04/14/woah.htm#comment-189678 Faith and proof are contrary; no one can know whether there is a God (in whatever form) until its too late. It is possible there is God. It is possible there is not. Why isn't it possible that there is an FSM? Maybe all it takes for something to exist is a quantity of people believing in it. Like that scene in Mircale on 34th Street where they prove Santa Claus exists because so many people write to him. Maybe "God" is a word we three-dimensional beings use to describe some extradimensional manifestation that we don't have the words to describe or understand due to being limited to only three of many possible dimensions. Maybe our 'souls' are simply sub-components of some fifth- or sixth-dimensional being and this universe is simply a construct to resolve the issue of good versus evil, or to determine if free will is a good idea or not. Within that framework, we would certainly all be connected; thus it would be prudent to, regardless of your faith, treat people the way you'd want to be treated. Global warming: there is no way that any scientific study can prove or disprove something like this, especially given the way scientific research is done today. You want accurate, non-partisan results? You need to double-blind all scientific research. The researchers can't know who is funding the study so they won't be predisposed to produce results expected of them. And, the gathering of the data should be completely separate from its analysis. An excellent and compelling book that makes this point much clearer than I can is State of Fear by Michael Crichton (author of Jurassic Park and other techno-thrillers). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_fear Faith and proof are contrary; no one can know whether there is a God (in whatever form) until its too late. It is possible there is God. It is possible there is not.

Why isn’t it possible that there is an FSM? Maybe all it takes for something to exist is a quantity of people believing in it. Like that scene in Mircale on 34th Street where they prove Santa Claus exists because so many people write to him.

Maybe “God” is a word we three-dimensional beings use to describe some extradimensional manifestation that we don’t have the words to describe or understand due to being limited to only three of many possible dimensions. Maybe our ’souls’ are simply sub-components of some fifth- or sixth-dimensional being and this universe is simply a construct to resolve the issue of good versus evil, or to determine if free will is a good idea or not. Within that framework, we would certainly all be connected; thus it would be prudent to, regardless of your faith, treat people the way you’d want to be treated.

Global warming: there is no way that any scientific study can prove or disprove something like this, especially given the way scientific research is done today. You want accurate, non-partisan results? You need to double-blind all scientific research. The researchers can’t know who is funding the study so they won’t be predisposed to produce results expected of them. And, the gathering of the data should be completely separate from its analysis.

An excellent and compelling book that makes this point much clearer than I can is State of Fear by Michael Crichton (author of Jurassic Park and other techno-thrillers).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_fear

]]> By: God http://www.venganza.org/2007/04/14/woah.htm#comment-189663 God Thu, 13 Sep 2007 16:58:25 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2007/04/14/woah.htm#comment-189663 I am sorry, but against all the hard evidence displayed on this website, i have no other choice but to resign... All hail the Flying Spaghetti Monster. He created us and in his image we shall live! ..... ......... ........... ;-) I am sorry, but against all the hard evidence displayed on this website, i have no other choice but to resign… All hail the Flying Spaghetti Monster. He created us and in his image we shall live!

…..

………

………..

;-)

]]> By: Plague Chicken http://www.venganza.org/2007/04/14/woah.htm#comment-189628 Plague Chicken Thu, 13 Sep 2007 15:31:40 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2007/04/14/woah.htm#comment-189628 I'm returning to a point raised far above... I just want to pipe in with the voice of cautious skepticism - this time applied to 'global warming'. If you go digging through Time magazine from the mid 70's (I can't recall the exact year), you will find headlines trumpeting the UNDENIABLE, ABSOLUTELY INCONTROVERTIBLE PROOF that the earth is slipping into an ice age and the sea levels will fall as more ice is created at the poles, and this will cause more ice to form and crops will fail and all will be DOOMED to a chilly extinction...and so on. Now, I treat any pronouncement that claims infallibility with the same level of derision applied to fundies, the pope and true believers of all types. Deeply held beliefs are the scariest thing of all because they warp all perception to fit the belief framework. Our religious community has claimed infallibility so often that we've stopped listening, but for some reason, we still listen with rapture if infallible science is invoked. Infallible people simply (to the best of my knowledge and personal experience) do not exist in this space-time. Maybe they live with Plato and his perfect chairs in that ghostly realm of space-time that we mortals do not occupy. Now, please note that I do NOT claim that the talk of global warming is false, but I do accept that it may not be entirely true, either. I've pulled up data from global warming studies. Depending on where you truncate your data set, you can show flat, rising or even falling global temps. What does that _prove_? Nada. Now, in general I do believe (note the explicit belief) that it would be a good idea to check for a more concrete connection in case there is something to it...but I am unwilling to follow on faith alone. The argument about hedging your bets is the same one that various religions use to bully people into accepting their belief system. To whit - even if the chance that god exists is infinitesimal, the payoff of eternal hell or heaven makes it worth believing. Even if the chance of global warming being really affected by humanity is small, unless you have another planet to live on, you must believe it. The parallels are a bit disturbing. IMVNO although science is a far better compass to use in guiding your life path, it is important to remember that scientists are people and as such are suspect in matters of the future, especially the future of a system that we do not completely understand. Does that mean that prudence shouldn't be exercised? NO. But, nor does it mean that we shouldn't maintain our usually high levels of skepticism. cheers PC I’m returning to a point raised far above…

I just want to pipe in with the voice of cautious skepticism - this time applied to ‘global warming’. If you go digging through Time magazine from the mid 70’s (I can’t recall the exact year), you will find headlines trumpeting the UNDENIABLE, ABSOLUTELY INCONTROVERTIBLE PROOF that the earth is slipping into an ice age and the sea levels will fall as more ice is created at the poles, and this will cause more ice to form and crops will fail and all will be DOOMED to a chilly extinction…and so on.

Now, I treat any pronouncement that claims infallibility with the same level of derision applied to fundies, the pope and true believers of all types. Deeply held beliefs are the scariest thing of all because they warp all perception to fit the belief framework. Our religious community has claimed infallibility so often that we’ve stopped listening, but for some reason, we still listen with rapture if infallible science is invoked.

Infallible people simply (to the best of my knowledge and personal experience) do not exist in this space-time. Maybe they live with Plato and his perfect chairs in that ghostly realm of space-time that we mortals do not occupy. Now, please note that I do NOT claim that the talk of global warming is false, but I do accept that it may not be entirely true, either.

I’ve pulled up data from global warming studies. Depending on where you truncate your data set, you can show flat, rising or even falling global temps. What does that _prove_? Nada. Now, in general I do believe (note the explicit belief) that it would be a good idea to check for a more concrete connection in case there is something to it…but I am unwilling to follow on faith alone.

The argument about hedging your bets is the same one that various religions use to bully people into accepting their belief system. To whit - even if the chance that god exists is infinitesimal, the payoff of eternal hell or heaven makes it worth believing. Even if the chance of global warming being really affected by humanity is small, unless you have another planet to live on, you must believe it. The parallels are a bit disturbing.

IMVNO although science is a far better compass to use in guiding your life path, it is important to remember that scientists are people and as such are suspect in matters of the future, especially the future of a system that we do not completely understand. Does that mean that prudence shouldn’t be exercised? NO. But, nor does it mean that we shouldn’t maintain our usually high levels of skepticism.

cheers

PC

]]> By: Peter Popoff http://www.venganza.org/2007/04/14/woah.htm#comment-189613 Peter Popoff Thu, 13 Sep 2007 14:23:00 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2007/04/14/woah.htm#comment-189613 What??? I've been lied to again? Damn it all! What???
I’ve been lied to again?
Damn it all!

]]> By: Booty http://www.venganza.org/2007/04/14/woah.htm#comment-189611 Booty Thu, 13 Sep 2007 14:16:24 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2007/04/14/woah.htm#comment-189611 Don't worry, Pluto - no one does :) Don’t worry, Pluto - no one does :)

]]> By: Pluto http://www.venganza.org/2007/04/14/woah.htm#comment-189538 Pluto Thu, 13 Sep 2007 09:30:41 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2007/04/14/woah.htm#comment-189538 I just hope no one actually thinks that you have any purpose, or credibility. I just hope no one actually thinks that you have any purpose, or credibility.

]]> By: Alchemist http://www.venganza.org/2007/04/14/woah.htm#comment-188270 Alchemist Mon, 10 Sep 2007 16:16:07 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2007/04/14/woah.htm#comment-188270 Wow - forgot about this thread too - thanks. . @ 666 - there's a thread with a lot of ASCII art on it somewhere - buggered if I know where though. PS - please don't shout - HTML tags work here - <strong>sometimes</strong>. It's nicer - leave the shouting to the fundies eh? . Sheeit! I've just had a look at the thread. I must have had some pretty good weed that week - I can't remember which names I was posting under :D Wow - forgot about this thread too - thanks.
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@ 666 - there’s a thread with a lot of ASCII art on it somewhere - buggered if I know where though.
PS - please don’t shout - HTML tags work here - sometimes. It’s nicer - leave the shouting to the fundies eh?
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Sheeit! I’ve just had a look at the thread. I must have had some pretty good weed that week - I can’t remember which names I was posting under :D

]]> By: Jean Bart http://www.venganza.org/2007/04/14/woah.htm#comment-188232 Jean Bart Mon, 10 Sep 2007 13:27:14 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2007/04/14/woah.htm#comment-188232 @666 Sep 10th, 2007 at 4:37 am "THE LINES ARE A MIDDLE FINGER(USE YOUR IMAGINATION)" . Pfff... you could as well have written: . "Dear differently thinking friends, please imagine a numbered character pointing its middle finger towards the sky, thus telling you how much it dislikes your philosophy." . That would have been a lot easier. . For us. . To read. . And to understand. . RAmen. @666 Sep 10th, 2007 at 4:37 am “THE LINES ARE A MIDDLE FINGER(USE YOUR IMAGINATION)”
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Pfff… you could as well have written:
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“Dear differently thinking friends, please imagine a numbered character pointing its middle finger towards the sky, thus telling you how much it dislikes your philosophy.”
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That would have been a lot easier.
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For us.
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To read.
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And to understand.
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RAmen.

]]> By: Commodore Angryy http://www.venganza.org/2007/04/14/woah.htm#comment-188196 Commodore Angryy Mon, 10 Sep 2007 11:46:37 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2007/04/14/woah.htm#comment-188196 666, i would prefer you really not sink to the level of the fundies, it disturbs me. i do approve of your name though, the church of satan is very well thought through and respectable. 666, i would prefer you really not sink to the level of the fundies, it disturbs me.
i do approve of your name though, the church of satan is very well thought through and respectable.

]]> By: 666 http://www.venganza.org/2007/04/14/woah.htm#comment-188191 666 Mon, 10 Sep 2007 11:37:06 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2007/04/14/woah.htm#comment-188191 THE LINES ARE A MIDDLE FINGER(USE YOUR IMAGINATION) THE LINES ARE A MIDDLE FINGER(USE YOUR IMAGINATION)

]]> By: 666 http://www.venganza.org/2007/04/14/woah.htm#comment-188189 666 Mon, 10 Sep 2007 11:36:13 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2007/04/14/woah.htm#comment-188189 | | | | | | | | | | | | | || || || | | || || || ||| | || || || | | | || || || | | | || || || | | | | | | ALL YOU NOOBS THAT DONT BELIEVE IN THE 1 TRUE FLYING SPAGHETTI MONSTER CAN ***** OFF BECAUSE ITS LIKE CHRISTIANITY NO1 CAN PROVE ITS TRUE SO GOD EXISTS. LOL AND ALL YOU CHRISTIANS THAT SWORE HAVE ALREADY FUCKED UP IN YOUR RELIGION |
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ALL YOU NOOBS THAT DONT BELIEVE IN THE 1 TRUE FLYING SPAGHETTI MONSTER CAN ***** OFF BECAUSE ITS LIKE CHRISTIANITY NO1 CAN PROVE ITS TRUE SO GOD EXISTS. LOL AND ALL YOU CHRISTIANS THAT SWORE HAVE ALREADY FUCKED UP IN YOUR RELIGION

]]> By: SarahSupaStar http://www.venganza.org/2007/04/14/woah.htm#comment-187841 SarahSupaStar Sun, 09 Sep 2007 17:18:41 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2007/04/14/woah.htm#comment-187841 But how do you know that, had pirates not decreased in numbers, they could not have decreased the ammount of greenhouse gass or discovered some way to halt the Earth's natural process of heating and cooling? After all, if people still went around in pirate ships, we wouldn't have all the pollution from motor-powered boats! You can't disproove it, and until you can, I refuse to believe differently. But how do you know that, had pirates not decreased in numbers, they could not have decreased the ammount of greenhouse gass or discovered some way to halt the Earth’s natural process of heating and cooling?
After all, if people still went around in pirate ships, we wouldn’t have all the pollution from motor-powered boats!
You can’t disproove it, and until you can, I refuse to believe differently.

]]> By: Red Dutch Pasta Wench http://www.venganza.org/2007/04/14/woah.htm#comment-185148 Red Dutch Pasta Wench Mon, 03 Sep 2007 17:01:15 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2007/04/14/woah.htm#comment-185148 MrAaaaaargh, it is our most holy sacrament to eat spaghetti or noodles. After all He created it in His Image! MrAaaaaargh, it is our most holy sacrament to eat spaghetti or noodles. After all He created it in His Image!

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