Comments on: Satan sure has a hold on you. http://www.venganza.org/2007/04/11/satan-sure-has-a-hold-on-you/ Fri, 19 Mar 2010 01:17:33 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Dave Archer http://www.venganza.org/2007/04/11/satan-sure-has-a-hold-on-you/#comment-901552 Dave Archer Sun, 29 Nov 2009 01:37:46 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2007/04/11/satan-sure-has-a-hold-on-you.htm#comment-901552 “This would be the best of all possible worlds if there were no religion in it”. John Adams, Founding U.S. President “We discover in the Gospels a groundwork of vulgar ignorance, of things impossible, superstition, fanaticism, and fabrication”. Thomas Jefferson, Founding U.S. President “A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate liberty, does not need the clergy”. James Madison “This would be the best of all possible worlds if there were no religion in it”. John Adams, Founding U.S. President

“We discover in the Gospels a groundwork of vulgar ignorance, of things impossible, superstition, fanaticism, and fabrication”. Thomas Jefferson, Founding U.S. President

“A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate liberty, does not need the clergy”. James Madison

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]]> By: Pamantha http://www.venganza.org/2007/04/11/satan-sure-has-a-hold-on-you/#comment-765154 Pamantha Sat, 21 Mar 2009 22:56:51 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2007/04/11/satan-sure-has-a-hold-on-you.htm#comment-765154 Haha ^^ nice, is there a section to follow the RSS feed Haha ^^ nice, is there a section to follow the RSS feed

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]]> By: Gaige Cleveland http://www.venganza.org/2007/04/11/satan-sure-has-a-hold-on-you/#comment-751775 Gaige Cleveland Fri, 06 Mar 2009 23:21:22 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2007/04/11/satan-sure-has-a-hold-on-you.htm#comment-751775 It It

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]]> By: Apprentice Frederic http://www.venganza.org/2007/04/11/satan-sure-has-a-hold-on-you/#comment-272861 Apprentice Frederic Sat, 29 Dec 2007 15:22:31 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2007/04/11/satan-sure-has-a-hold-on-you.htm#comment-272861 @JC I think that the Pilgrims (capital "P") actually were overwhelmingly Cromwell's Puritans, and that their tolerance was thin to nonexistent, and that it is naive (nieve might be Spanish for "snow"?) to imagine otherwise. The history of the Puritans in England, BTW, and the craziness and carnage they precipitated, provides a parallel to the Fundie movement in the US that is worth thinking about. @JC
I think that the Pilgrims (capital “P”) actually were overwhelmingly Cromwell’s Puritans, and that their tolerance was thin to nonexistent, and that it is naive (nieve might be Spanish for “snow”?) to imagine otherwise. The history of the Puritans in England, BTW, and the craziness and carnage they precipitated, provides a parallel to the Fundie movement in the US that is worth thinking about.

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]]> By: Teh Spag-worshipper http://www.venganza.org/2007/04/11/satan-sure-has-a-hold-on-you/#comment-272823 Teh Spag-worshipper Sat, 29 Dec 2007 14:11:09 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2007/04/11/satan-sure-has-a-hold-on-you.htm#comment-272823 Erm... Pennsylvania was definitely founded on the principle of religious freedom; William Penn made it up because he needed somewhere where minority religions (in his case Quakers) could go and not be persecuted. Ah, the joys of a Quaker education... Which I haven't had, but whatever. Erm… Pennsylvania was definitely founded on the principle of religious freedom; William Penn made it up because he needed somewhere where minority religions (in his case Quakers) could go and not be persecuted.
Ah, the joys of a Quaker education…
Which I haven’t had, but whatever.

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]]> By: Satan http://www.venganza.org/2007/04/11/satan-sure-has-a-hold-on-you/#comment-272814 Satan Sat, 29 Dec 2007 13:45:56 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2007/04/11/satan-sure-has-a-hold-on-you.htm#comment-272814 Thomas Jefferson was agnostic. Thomas Jefferson was agnostic.

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]]> By: CindyB http://www.venganza.org/2007/04/11/satan-sure-has-a-hold-on-you/#comment-272779 CindyB Sat, 29 Dec 2007 12:44:40 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2007/04/11/satan-sure-has-a-hold-on-you.htm#comment-272779 For some reason, fundamentalists never check the facts, but blindly follow what their religious leaders tell them. If they'd bother to do a little research, they'd read the Constitution, which never mentions God or Christianity. Its only references to religion are to negate any fealty to a particular religion by stating plainly "no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust," which has been violated by the current administration (as in the attorneys general scandals, where many of the appointees came from Christian schools). If we are, as the fundies say, a Christian nation, why doesn't the Constitution plainly say that? In fact, in 1797 the treaty with Tripoli says "the government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion." I'm sure someone has posted this previously, but I didn't read all 240 responses to the original letter, so sorry if I repeat. For some reason, fundamentalists never check the facts, but blindly follow what their religious leaders tell them. If they’d bother to do a little research, they’d read the Constitution, which never mentions God or Christianity. Its only references to religion are to negate any fealty to a particular religion by stating plainly “no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust,” which has been violated by the current administration (as in the attorneys general scandals, where many of the appointees came from Christian schools). If we are, as the fundies say, a Christian nation, why doesn’t the Constitution plainly say that? In fact, in 1797 the treaty with Tripoli says “the government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.” I’m sure someone has posted this previously, but I didn’t read all 240 responses to the original letter, so sorry if I repeat.

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]]> By: Repmuht http://www.venganza.org/2007/04/11/satan-sure-has-a-hold-on-you/#comment-272757 Repmuht Sat, 29 Dec 2007 11:54:08 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2007/04/11/satan-sure-has-a-hold-on-you.htm#comment-272757 @JC I thought the Pilgrims (i.e Mayflower) were English Puritan X-tains and thus of the same religion. I've never studied American history but this was my understanding. Is this incorrect? What other religions were represented by the Pilgrims? @JC
I thought the Pilgrims (i.e Mayflower) were English Puritan X-tains and thus of the same religion. I’ve never studied American history but this was my understanding. Is this incorrect? What other religions were represented by the Pilgrims?

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]]> By: zach http://www.venganza.org/2007/04/11/satan-sure-has-a-hold-on-you/#comment-272751 zach Sat, 29 Dec 2007 11:44:47 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2007/04/11/satan-sure-has-a-hold-on-you.htm#comment-272751 Haahahahaha Have fun with that evil Jesus Jesus is an AssHole he Says if you are Gay you are going to hell If you have a dif Religion you are going to hell Even If Jesus was real I whouldent worship him becuse he is a Ass Turd Haahahahaha Have fun with that evil Jesus
Jesus is an AssHole he Says if you are Gay you are going to hell
If you have a dif Religion you are going to hell

Even If Jesus was real I whouldent worship him becuse he is a Ass Turd

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]]> By: JC http://www.venganza.org/2007/04/11/satan-sure-has-a-hold-on-you/#comment-272559 JC Sat, 29 Dec 2007 06:07:10 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2007/04/11/satan-sure-has-a-hold-on-you.htm#comment-272559 @235 Martha Dec 28th, 2007 at 11:29 am No, the Pilgrims did NOT come here for religious freedom! They came in order to practice THEIR religion, but they did not plan to offer such freedom to other religions. A common misconception. It is nieve to think that every pilgrim was of the same religion, or that they all had a religion. @235 Martha
Dec 28th, 2007 at 11:29 am
No, the Pilgrims did NOT come here for religious freedom! They came in order to practice THEIR religion, but they did not plan to offer such freedom to other religions. A common misconception.

It is nieve to think that every pilgrim was of the same religion, or that they all had a religion.

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]]> By: Apprentice Frederic http://www.venganza.org/2007/04/11/satan-sure-has-a-hold-on-you/#comment-272476 Apprentice Frederic Sat, 29 Dec 2007 03:46:56 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2007/04/11/satan-sure-has-a-hold-on-you.htm#comment-272476 @Martha, all: I was wrong. He died naturally and was executed later, LOFOMAO. @Martha, all: I was wrong. He died naturally and was executed later, LOFOMAO.

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]]> By: Apprentice Frederic http://www.venganza.org/2007/04/11/satan-sure-has-a-hold-on-you/#comment-272473 Apprentice Frederic Sat, 29 Dec 2007 03:38:32 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2007/04/11/satan-sure-has-a-hold-on-you.htm#comment-272473 @Martha I checked, and you're exactly right! The Pilgrims were an especially nasty variety of Puritan; Christmas was actually banned both in Puritan England and some parts of the Colonies for a while. I think it eventually fell out that Oliver Cromwell was so unpopular that they dug him up a century after he was executed and hung him some more. I just love them lofty religious principles..... @Martha
I checked, and you’re exactly right! The Pilgrims were an especially nasty variety of Puritan; Christmas was actually banned both in Puritan England and some parts of the Colonies for a while. I think it eventually fell out that Oliver Cromwell was so unpopular that they dug him up a century after he was executed and hung him some more. I just love them lofty religious principles…..

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]]> By: neal http://www.venganza.org/2007/04/11/satan-sure-has-a-hold-on-you/#comment-272425 neal Sat, 29 Dec 2007 02:08:20 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2007/04/11/satan-sure-has-a-hold-on-you.htm#comment-272425 When Xtains claim America was founded as a Christian nation, they are full of it. While true, the original pilgrims founded a religious based colony in Massachusetts, and another in Virginia, what is overlooked is the founding occurred fully 170 years prior to the Declaration of Independence. In that interval, the Americas developed a secular, humanistic class of people who became the Founding Fathers. Both Jerrerson and Madison were for the strictest separation of church and state. The phrase "wall of separation" which fundamentalists decry and claim is a spurious interpretation of the First Amendment was coined by Jefferson, the selfsame author of that amendment. (Anyone who argues in one breath for a strict constructionist-originalist interpretation of the constitution iand in their second breath proclaims that the first amendment does not mandate a "wall of separation" is profoundly ignorant of the legislative history of the constitution and the intent of its authors). Then there is Madison, the other author of the Amendment. When the US congress decided to have chaplains in the pay of the government, take a guess what he wrote about it. It is easily enough found if you google it-I wont post the link. In short, the founding fathers were not the advocates of a Christian city on a hill, that these ignorant fundamentalist proclaim they were. Those advocates, the Cotton Mathers and the like had died out a century before. As a matter of fact, Xtains fundamentalists are abysmally ignorant of history. How often have they proclaimed that God punished the Roman Empire for the crucifixion of Jesus and of course their pagan sinfulness by allow Rome to fall. What they omitt is that Rome fell in 433AD and Christ was crucified on or around 33AD. Thus God was punishing a generation of Romans who were as far removed from the guilt of Christ's crucufixion as we were removed from the Indian massacres of Cotton and Increase Mather. Moreover, Rome adopted Christainity a century earlier, under the emperor Constantine who made it the sole, official religion of the empire. Finally, the Roman empire lasted for another 1000 years in the East with Constantinople (contemporarary Instanbul) as its capital. It's a pity more people don't challenge their facts when they spew this stuff on national tv. When Xtains claim America was founded as a Christian nation, they are full of it. While true, the original pilgrims founded a religious based colony in Massachusetts, and another in Virginia, what is overlooked is the founding occurred fully 170 years prior to the Declaration of Independence.

In that interval, the Americas developed a secular, humanistic class of people who became the Founding Fathers. Both Jerrerson and Madison were for the strictest separation of church and state. The phrase “wall of separation” which fundamentalists decry and claim is a spurious interpretation of the First Amendment was coined by Jefferson, the selfsame author of that amendment. (Anyone who argues in one breath for a strict constructionist-originalist interpretation of the constitution iand in their second breath proclaims that the first amendment does not mandate a “wall of separation” is profoundly ignorant of the legislative history of the constitution and the intent of its authors).

Then there is Madison, the other author of the Amendment. When the US congress decided to have chaplains in the pay of the government, take a guess what he wrote about it. It is easily enough found if you google it-I wont post the link.

In short, the founding fathers were not the advocates of a Christian city on a hill, that these ignorant fundamentalist proclaim they were. Those advocates, the Cotton Mathers and the like had died out a century before.

As a matter of fact, Xtains fundamentalists are abysmally ignorant of history. How often have they proclaimed that God punished the Roman Empire for the crucifixion of Jesus and of course their pagan sinfulness by allow Rome to fall.
What they omitt is that Rome fell in 433AD and Christ was crucified on or around 33AD. Thus God was punishing a generation of Romans who were as far removed from the guilt of Christ’s crucufixion as we were removed from the Indian massacres of Cotton and Increase Mather. Moreover, Rome adopted Christainity a century earlier, under the emperor Constantine who made it the sole, official religion of the empire. Finally, the Roman empire lasted for another 1000 years in the East with Constantinople (contemporarary Instanbul) as its capital.

It’s a pity more people don’t challenge their facts when they spew this stuff on national tv.

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]]> By: Theo http://www.venganza.org/2007/04/11/satan-sure-has-a-hold-on-you/#comment-272341 Theo Fri, 28 Dec 2007 23:42:22 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2007/04/11/satan-sure-has-a-hold-on-you.htm#comment-272341 Caroline♥; Stop doing that. OT: Satan doesn't have a hold on us, because we don't believe he exists. Caroline♥;

Stop doing that.

OT: Satan doesn’t have a hold on us, because we don’t believe he exists.

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]]> By: Martha http://www.venganza.org/2007/04/11/satan-sure-has-a-hold-on-you/#comment-272133 Martha Fri, 28 Dec 2007 18:29:39 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2007/04/11/satan-sure-has-a-hold-on-you.htm#comment-272133 No, the Pilgrims did NOT come here for religious freedom! They came in order to practice THEIR religion, but they did not plan to offer such freedom to other religions. A common misconception. No, the Pilgrims did NOT come here for religious freedom! They came in order to practice THEIR religion, but they did not plan to offer such freedom to other religions. A common misconception.

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]]> By: pheer6224 http://www.venganza.org/2007/04/11/satan-sure-has-a-hold-on-you/#comment-271973 pheer6224 Fri, 28 Dec 2007 13:31:33 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2007/04/11/satan-sure-has-a-hold-on-you.htm#comment-271973 Didn't the pilgrims come here for religious freedom? Didn’t the pilgrims come here for religious freedom?

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]]> By: Hooch http://www.venganza.org/2007/04/11/satan-sure-has-a-hold-on-you/#comment-254972 Hooch Sun, 09 Dec 2007 01:45:46 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2007/04/11/satan-sure-has-a-hold-on-you.htm#comment-254972 doctor weerdo, that is an excellent point. Wasnt one of the reasons the 'pilgrims' originally came to the 'new world' to escape the religious persecution? Its sad that now Christian America feels that they have the right to persecute others, when the original founders of America were here to escape that same problem. doctor weerdo, that is an excellent point. Wasnt one of the reasons the ‘pilgrims’ originally came to the ‘new world’ to escape the religious persecution? Its sad that now Christian America feels that they have the right to persecute others, when the original founders of America were here to escape that same problem.

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]]> By: doctor weerdo http://www.venganza.org/2007/04/11/satan-sure-has-a-hold-on-you/#comment-253131 doctor weerdo Fri, 07 Dec 2007 08:08:15 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2007/04/11/satan-sure-has-a-hold-on-you.htm#comment-253131 Why do christens always claim that America was created by the founding fathers to be a Christian nation? If you honestly think that, look at some of their arguments and writings that they made at the time. Many of our founding fathers despised religion (for example Jefferson). Why do christens always claim that America was created by the founding fathers to be a Christian nation? If you honestly think that, look at some of their arguments and writings that they made at the time. Many of our founding fathers despised religion (for example Jefferson).

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]]> By: neal http://www.venganza.org/2007/04/11/satan-sure-has-a-hold-on-you/#comment-247885 neal Fri, 30 Nov 2007 08:53:24 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2007/04/11/satan-sure-has-a-hold-on-you.htm#comment-247885 Hey Kim. perhaps you being all close to God and knowing his mind, and needless to say, the mysteries of the universe can explain a few things to us? --Why dose Satan do what he does? And don' say he's evil. Why's he evil, what does he get out of being evil? Why did he rebel agains god when he was in gods presence, saw god and knew god's full capabilities? --Also why doesn't god just clear up the mystery of whether or not he exists and what laws he wants us to observe. Couldn't he just buy airtime. And don't tell me, he wants us to have faith. Why does your god want us to believe in his existence with no evidence of his existence? Why does he want us to believe with no proof? What's the logical reason for that? If he doen't want to give us direct evidence of his existence why not at least provide a cogent and convincing reason for its absence? Everything I've ever read in scriptures says somthing to the effect that believing without proof is just "better" Why's it better, Kim? Did believing the assertiions of people like Hitler and Stalin without convincing evidence prove a wise choice for the German or Russian peoples? When has taking it on faith proven a wise choice for the American people, In Iraq? Given the track record of following and believing like a sheep how could anyone seriously propose that the wisest and most benevolent (accoriding to You) being in the universe would make it a prerequisite for salvation? Hey Kim. perhaps you being all close to God and knowing his mind, and needless to say, the mysteries of the universe can explain a few things to us?

–Why dose Satan do what he does? And don’ say he’s evil. Why’s he evil, what does he get out of being evil? Why did he rebel agains god when he was in gods presence, saw god and knew god’s full capabilities?

–Also why doesn’t god just clear up the mystery of whether or not he exists and what laws he wants us to observe. Couldn’t he just buy airtime. And don’t tell me, he wants us to have faith. Why does your god want us to believe in his existence with no evidence of his existence? Why does he want us to believe with no proof? What’s the logical reason for that? If he doen’t want to give us direct evidence of his existence why not at least provide a cogent and convincing reason for its absence?
Everything I’ve ever read in scriptures says somthing to the effect that believing without proof is just “better” Why’s it better, Kim? Did believing the assertiions of people like Hitler and Stalin without convincing evidence prove a wise choice for the German or Russian peoples? When has taking it on faith proven a wise choice for the American people, In Iraq? Given the track record of following and believing like a sheep how could anyone seriously propose that the wisest and most benevolent (accoriding to You) being in the universe would make it a prerequisite for salvation?

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]]> By: mentos http://www.venganza.org/2007/04/11/satan-sure-has-a-hold-on-you/#comment-247824 mentos Fri, 30 Nov 2007 07:01:07 +0000 http://www.venganza.org/2007/04/11/satan-sure-has-a-hold-on-you.htm#comment-247824 What nation? this is the internet sweetheart, america isn't the only continent on the planet. What nation? this is the internet sweetheart, america isn’t the only continent on the planet.

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